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Standar gear.

Kodo wins pretty convincingly.

I was surprised at how casually he beat her in X-Men #25. But a samurai vampire who is 400 years old should be pretty badd@ss.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I was surprised at how casually he beat her in X-Men #25. But a samurai vampire who is 400 years old should be pretty badd@ss.

He beat betsy in x-men 25? Of the current x-men run?


To be honest the fact he a vampire who 400 years old should not make much of a difference. There a vampires much older then that, and I give almost none of them the majority against betsy. If this is true that she beat her I have got to see this. That be pretty dam impressive given her current levels.

X-Men #25 that came out yesterday. She was even using tp...or trying to.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
X-Men #25 that came out yesterday. She was even using tp...or trying to. the dude was winning against Valkyrie too. He has top notch speed. Probably only slightly below Dracula.

A samurai vampire has bad@ss written all over it. I wonder how long before he and Blade cross paths.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
A samurai vampire has bad@ss written all over it. I wonder how long before he and Blade cross paths. It looks like they'll be meeting up in x-men #29...that cover has every guest star to-date on it.

The Forgiven have been pretty formidable. They defeated Nul/Hulk and were about to kill Storm's X-men team.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
X-Men #25 that came out yesterday. She was even using tp...or trying to.

I gunna have to read it, but I have a feeling she was written down to hype a character. But we shall see.


Was she using her TK?

Originally posted by Trackz
the dude was winning against Valkyrie too. He has top notch speed. Probably only slightly below Dracula.


Valkyrie has never been very impressive, at least to me. She seems to be all hype but with fairly few good showings.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
A samurai vampire has bad@ss written all over it. I wonder how long before he and Blade cross paths.

I gotta agree with you here. A vampire Samurai is pretty dam badass.

Originally posted by Trackz
It looks like they'll be meeting up in x-men #29...that cover has every guest star to-date on it.

The Forgiven have been pretty formidable. They defeated Nul/Hulk and were about to kill Storm's X-men team. I saw the cover but covers are a joke.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I saw the cover but covers are a joke.
lol right. every x-men cover for years had wolverine on it, but he was not even in haft the books lol.


Also was psylocke using her TK and psy-psi blade?

I don't recall. I just skimmed the book at the store but do recall her attemtping to use telepathy but it didn't work. Raizo also had a good reflexes feat as he caught a knife mid-air that was tossed at him by Warpath.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I don't recall. I just skimmed the book at the store but do recall her attemtping to use telepathy but it didn't work. Raizo also had a good reflexes feat as he caught a knife mid-air that was tossed at him by Warpath.
I could see vamps especially powerful ones have telepathy resistances.

TK big though. She utilizes TK far more often then telepathy, that be surprising if she did not use it.


That pretty impressive reflex feat given that warpath a class 25.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
I was surprised at how casually he beat her in X-Men #25. But a samurai vampire who is 400 years old should be pretty badd@ss.

Yeah.... Raizo never beat Psylocke, he simply judo tossed her and the fight cut away to the rest of the X-Men. At best he had a momentary advantage in the natural ebb and flow of the fight.

If Betsy use psy-blades or TK she crushes Raizo effortlessly.

Like I said I skimmed the issue but I did get the idea she was outlcassed and done for when he slammed her. I also got the idea he was just toying with her. She was out of her class physically and skill wise imo. BTW you have scans?

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Like I said I skimmed the issue but I did get the idea she was outlcassed and done for when he slammed her. I also got the idea he was just toying with her. She was out of her class physically and skill wise imo. BTW you have scans?

You seem to be jumping to a lot of conclusions based off an issue you only "skimmed"


Out class physically while amping? That is extremely doubtful.


Out class skill wise? Yea that not likely at all. Do you know how skilled psylocke is? Even with out her powers she be a formidable hero and one of the most skilled fighters on the planet..........

No...no, Raizo beat Psyclocke.

Psylocke attempted to break into Raizo's mind and was unable due to his discipline. Raizo admitted with time, Psylocke would be able to overpower his mind though and he proceeds to slam her to the ground and she isn't seen for the rest of the issue. Raizo's statements also give credence to the fact the fight was over. As he slams her to the ground he says "A pleasure speaking with you. It's always pleasure to battle someone with good-manners." and KOs her.

Raizo is probably more skilled that Psylocke, she had to concentrate so much on not getting hit that she couldn't use her powers, and she was still taken out.

Momentary advantages in the issue were when warpath was knocked across the room, then resumed fighting or Storm punching Nighteyes in the face.

When Jubilee intervenes everyone is shown to stop fighting and Raizo walked over to Jubilee, Psylocke no where in sight.

This is going to get ugly.

It shouldn't. I'm not going to make the argument that Raizo could beat Psylocke at her best, I don't know who would win. Raizo doesn't have enough appearances, and even then right now he's getting the Red Hulk/Sentry treatment.

The issue clearly showed that Raizo beat Psylocke though.

how strong has Kodo shown to be? mere slam knocking her out seems unlikely



I gunna read the issue today if I can get to my comic shop to confirm this.

Well, he went sword for sword with Valkyrie so he must have some degree of superstrength.

Originally posted by Trackz
No...no, Raizo beat Psyclocke.

Psylocke attempted to break into Raizo's mind and was unable due to his discipline. Raizo admitted with time, Psylocke would be able to overpower his mind though and he proceeds to slam her to the ground and she isn't seen for the rest of the issue. Raizo's statements also give credence to the fact the fight was over. As he slams her to the ground he says "A pleasure speaking with you. It's always pleasure to battle someone with good-manners." and KOs her.

Raizo is probably more skilled that Psylocke, she had to concentrate so much on not getting hit that she couldn't use her powers, and she was still taken out.

Momentary advantages in the issue were when warpath was knocked across the room, then resumed fighting or Storm punching Nighteyes in the face.

When Jubilee intervenes everyone is shown to stop fighting and Raizo walked over to Jubilee, Psylocke no where in sight.



Knocked out? He tossed her with a judo reap, that wouldn't knock someone out, it's not like this is Startrek Next Gen and Psylock is Worf. Raizo didn't pick her up and power bomb her, he hip tossed her. There is no indication she was knocked out or significantly injured, her not being in the rest of the book is merely the result of large amount of characters present in the same scene all competing for panel time. Nothing more and nothing less. For all we know Psylocke could very well be the black jaw silhouette, or the leg silhouette. Regardless, it's pretty obvious that Raizo and Psylocke continued to fight after the reap... or else he would have been standing around for four pages doing nothing but watch his friends get beat up... which seems unlikely.

While I didn't get the read all the dialogue I did notice Deadpool on a computer screen. Deadpool vs Raizo would be good.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Well, he went sword for sword with Valkyrie so he must have some degree of superstrength.
Some digree still would not KO her. She has pretty high durability. Characters with superhuman strength have done a lot more then simply slam her with out her being KOed.


Also Valkyrie is not that impressive. Mere Humans have sword fought her to stand still before if not mistaken. I dont find her to be very impressive.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin


Knocked out? He tossed her with a judo reap, that wouldn't knock someone out, it's not like this is Startrek Next Gen and Psylock is Worf. Raizo didn't pick her up and power bomb her, he hip tossed her. There is no indication she was knocked out or significantly injured, her not being in the rest of the book is merely the result of large amount of characters present in the same scene all competing for panel time. Nothing more and nothing less. For all we know Psylocke could very well be the black jaw silhouette, or the leg silhouette. Regardless, it's pretty obvious that Raizo and Psylocke continued to fight after the reap... or else he would have been standing around for four pages doing nothing but watch his friends get beat up... which seems unlikely.

Which seems likely* since he had been trying to stop the fight from the beginning...hell not even all the Forgiven were fighting. They had another member on the sidelines while everything was going down. In fact the Forgiven were on the defensive for the entire fight and were still beating that particular squad of x-men. Psylocke was taken down, and at the end of the fight everyone is shown with whoever their competitor was except Raizo, because Psylocke had been knocked out of the fight.

Raizo isn't a normal competitor, he is a vampire and an old one at taht, he has a significant amount of super human strength (enough to cross swords with Valkyrie), so it is entirely conceivable that he could knock out Psylocke by slamming her to the ground. Again, EVERY character is seen after the fight except Psylocke.

Standing around and doing nothing as you claim he was is not trying to stop the fight... it's standing around and doing nothing. There were thirteen different characters in that one area by the end of the issue. Psylocke wasn't not present in the art because she was knocked out, she simply was not shown because she had no dialogue, wasn't important to the particular scene and panel time was a lacking commodity with so many characters in one place. Psylocke isn't the only character who doesn't show up. We don't see Nighteyes after Storm punches her... do you want me to believe that Storm knocked her out with one punch?

He didn't slam her to the ground. He hip tossed her. If he slammed her to the ground, maybe he could have koed her... but that isn't what happened.

Can somebody post the scans? I do remember that Raizo did disarm her.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Also Valkyrie is not that impressive. Mere Humans have sword fought her to stand still before if not mistaken. I dont find her to be very impressive. I thought nowadays (ie, how she was being written in Secret Avengers) Valkyrie was solidly established to be > Cap, strength wise.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Can somebody post the scans? I do remember that Raizo did disarm her. He did disarm her casually.

never ceases to amaze me that 2 people can look at one scene and see it so differently. scans would be very nice so everyone can judge....

raizo.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/4338/97762954.jpghttp://img819.imageshack.us/img819/264/72270757.jpghttp://img594.imageshack.us/img594/7198/28452707.jpg

Psylocke was clearly beaten.

Storm doesn't have the capability of knocking out Nighteyes, the same can't be said for Raizo.

That's ownage.

i'd say he had the best of that pretty casual confrontation but i wouldn't put much stock in that little sparring match. a rematchwhere both were serious could be utterly different.....

I agree, had Raizo intended to kill......

lol, Psylocke was NOT clearly beaten, and no, that wasn't ownage.

I like the dialogue, the art is nice, but let's have serious talk for a second: their exchange was as casual as the dialogue implies. It didn't last long enough for Psylocke to explore her myriad of options in battle; illusions, telekinesis, physical amping, her telekinetic katana and psychic knives all failed to make appearances in their page-and-a-half interaction, and Raizo himself really didn't do much besides parry a few blows and employ a toss.

The sparring was brief, and Psylocke clearly underestimated him, but it doesn't really speak to how a forum battle would go down.

Yeah, I gotta side with Existere/srank/leo here.

How did you guys get "clearly beaten" and "ownage" from that scan?

She got thrown after an otherwise even sparring match in which she didn't even use all her powers.

She was disarmed also.

She dropped her weapon during the throw, but a katana-less Psylocke is far from helpless. She has powers, including psychic blades.

I'm just not seeing the "ownage" angle from that scan.

Hard to remove all the weapons from a woman who can manifest them telekinetically.

Originally posted by StyleTime
She dropped her weapon during the throw, but a katana-less Psylocke is far from helpless. She has powers, including psychic blades.

I'm just not seeing the "ownage" angle from that scan. I dont think its ownage, clearly Raizo won the bout though. Also some writers don't write Psylocke with the ability to manifest psy blades.

Originally posted by YFZ 350
She was disarmed also.

Annnnnnnnnnnnd so was he.

Originally posted by StyleTime
Yeah, I gotta side with Existere/srank/leo here.

How did you guys get "clearly beaten" and "ownage" from that scan?

She got thrown after an otherwise even sparring match in which she didn't even use all her powers.

Seriously. It would be like watching a fight and then turning the channel after the first takedown, throwing your hands up and shouting "Well, I guess that fights over!!!" Sexyama beat Leben right? That judo toss surely finished him!!!

Originally posted by Existere
lol, Psylocke was NOT clearly beaten, and no, that wasn't ownage.

I like the dialogue, the art is nice, but let's have serious talk for a second: their exchange was as casual as the dialogue implies. It didn't last long enough for Psylocke to explore her myriad of options in battle; illusions, telekinesis, physical amping, her telekinetic katana and psychic knives all failed to make appearances in their page-and-a-half interaction, and Raizo himself really didn't do much besides parry a few blows and employ a toss.

The sparring was brief, and Psylocke clearly underestimated him, but it doesn't really speak to how a forum battle would go down.

As i said initially, this fight is no indication of what would happen in a forum fight. That doesn't take away the fact that Raizo beat Psylocke in their match. She was attempting to use her telepathic tricks and failed. Not only that, not all writers agree on the extent of Psylockes abilities.

Also, Raizo wasn't disarmed, he sheathes his sword to perform the sweeping kick on Psylocke, we never see his sword fly off though.

Originally posted by Trackz
As i said initially, this fight is no indication of what would happen in a forum fight. That doesn't take away the fact that Raizo beat Psylocke in their match. She was attempting to use her telepathic tricks and failed. Not only that, not all writers agree on the extent of Psylockes abilities.

Also, Raizo wasn't disarmed, he sheathes his sword to perform the sweeping kick on Psylocke, we never see his sword fly off though.

He didn't sheath his sword, he lost it in between the panel where he is blocking Psylocke's attack and the panel where he is trying to sweep her legs out. He has it strapped to his back when he shows up latter, but during the fight the sheath is on his hip and the handle would have been visible in the panel where is is trying to trip Betsy.

The "disagreement" was whether or not Betsy telepathy to go with her tk, because she lost that ability when she was resurected... but that was years ago. Now it's well established that she has both... not to mention that this isn't Gischler's first issue of the series and we've already seen his Psylocke use tp, tk and psy-blades.... hell in the last issue she tk's off a Vampire's head and uses her psy-katana.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He didn't sheath his sword, he lost it in between the panel where he is blocking Psylocke's attack and the panel where he is trying to sweep her legs out. He has it strapped to his back when he shows up latter, but during the fight the sheath is on his hip and the handle would have been visible in the panel where is is trying to trip Betsy.


You can see his sword attached to his belt when he flips psylocke. The sheathe is never on his hip, and through out the fight there isn't shown to be one on his hip, until he flips psylocke, which would indicate he put his sword in his belt when he went to kick psylocke. Psylocke never disarmed him.