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Wildatorm has become convinced that the only way to protect the earth is with and iron fist. Dc believes there must be another way.

Mr majestic believes that to save the earth the superhumans must rule with an iron fist.

Obviously superman sees It differently

They fight on war world after superman has discovered Mongol has been killed by the other team.

Team 2 easily.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Team 2 easily.

Team 2, not really easily, just reliably.

Originally posted by Digi
Team 2, not really easily, just reliably.

Originally posted by Digi
Team 2, really easily.
ha-som
Seriously, apollo is out of his league here and kal takes majestros for 6/10.

Wow. I would have thought it would have been a closer matchup. :-/

Originally posted by rotiart
Wow. I would have thought it would have been a closer matchup. :-/


Does J'onn retain his fire weakness in the DCnU, or has that been pushed aside?

Give Apollo sometime, I bet he's in Superman's class now. He was said to be Superman class or possibly in Stormwatch.

Originally posted by abhilegend
ha-som
Seriously, apollo is out of his league here and kal takes majestros for 6/10.

Well, yes, Apollo is the reason his team loses. My point is that it wouldn't be a stomp. The forum has, in its history, had a very overwhelming tendency to consider ONLY his lowest showings. Very few on KMC are afforded such an initial handicap. There are those who claim he'd lose to High Meta bricks like Namor or Thing. Which is ridiculous, of course, but indicative of my point.

Majestros is also the most skilled and arguably (very strongly imo) the fastest in the fight.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Give Apollo sometime, I bet he's in Superman's class now. He was said to be Superman class or possibly in Stormwatch.

Current Apollo has been classified as the most powerful being on the planet.

This is a lot closer than people think. Team 2 though for various reasons. Also current apollo is far from the most powerful being in DCnU.

Originally posted by carver9
Current Apollo has been classified as the most powerful being on the planet.
Lulz.

Originally posted by Digi
Well, yes, Apollo is the reason his team loses. My point is that it wouldn't be a stomp. The forum has, in its history, had a very overwhelming tendency to consider ONLY his lowest showings. Very few on KMC are afforded such an initial handicap. There are those who claim he'd lose to High Meta bricks like Namor or Thing. Which is ridiculous, of course, but indicative of my point.

Majestros is also the most skilled and arguably (very strongly imo) the fastest in the fight.
Well, I've been to his respect thread and nothing I saw makes me believe he's much above thing in strength. Skill I would give you that, but superman is strongest, fastest, most durable character here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Well, I've been to his respect thread and nothing I saw makes me believe he's much above thing in strength. Skill I would give you that, but superman is strongest, fastest, most durable character here.

See, I never understood this. Lifting skyscrapers, scouring the entire moon in under a minute with heat vision, slamming into the earth (including re-entry) at Mach speeds and creating a hole the size of a building and walking away from it like it's nothing. Taking Cpt. Atom to school before being tricked into getting overloaded on power. One-shotting a (literally) planet-sized space station. That's off the top of my head. There's probably a dozen others in there that Ben couldn't replicate. What feats were you looking at?

Also, the whole "Superman is the strongest, fastest, etc." thing... I do actually think the burden of proof is on Superman to prove he's faster or more skilled than Majestic. Majestic's best speed feats rival things only the Flash has done. And he's a Kherubim warlord on a planet of beings with elite level MA skills and superhuman powers, and he's the best of them. He's also moved planets with his strength (the telekinetic gloves he used were not an amp, as has been shown definitively, they just held the planets together). I'll grant Kal's stronger and more durable, but a legit (non fan-voted "Superman has to win" fight between them, given their feats, is damn close.

{edit}
Here's the link to my Authority thread. There's more total links in the separate Apollo thread, but also more filler imo. I just browsed through the Apollo post to jog my memory, and I doubt Ben could replicate 1/5 of these feats, even if we just consider strength and ignore all the other attributes and powers that put Apollo above him considerably.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10566848#post10566848
...again, it's just an odd bias against him. He goes around wrecking sh*t like the Superman knock-off he is, then has I think 2 instances of losing his charge quickly (in very mitigating circumstances) and people think he fizzles after like 2 punches. He's honestly my least favorite character in the Authority, but the only one I really have to defend on the forums. The rest get their due, and it's usually not much more or less than they deserve.

Originally posted by Digi
See, I never understood this. Lifting skyscrapers, scouring the entire moon in under a minute with heat vision, slamming into the earth (including re-entry) at Mach speeds and creating a hole the size of a building and walking away from it like it's nothing. Taking Cpt. Atom to school before being tricked into getting overloaded on power. One-shotting a (literally) planet-sized space station. That's off the top of my head. There's probably a dozen others in there that Ben couldn't replicate. What feats were you looking at?

Also, the whole "Superman is the strongest, fastest, etc." thing... I do actually think the burden of proof is on Superman to prove he's faster or more skilled than Majestic. Majestic's best speed feats rival things only the Flash has done. And he's a Kherubim warlord on a planet of beings with elite level MA skills and superhuman powers, and he's the best of them. He's also moved planets with his strength (the telekinetic gloves he used were not an amp, as has been shown definitively, they just held the planets together). I'll grant Kal's stronger and more durable, but a legit (non fan-voted "Superman has to win" fight between them, given their feats, is damn close.

{edit}
Here's the link to my Authority thread. There's more total links in the separate Apollo thread, but also more filler imo. I just browsed through the Apollo post to jog my memory, and I doubt Ben could replicate 1/5 of these feats, even if we just consider strength and ignore all the other attributes and powers that put Apollo above him considerably.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=10566848#post10566848
...again, it's just an odd bias against him. He goes around wrecking sh*t like the Superman knock-off he is, then has I think 2 instances of losing his charge quickly (in very mitigating circumstances) and people think he fizzles after like 2 punches. He's honestly my least favorite character in the Authority, but the only one I really have to defend on the forums. The rest get their due, and it's usually not much more or less than they deserve.

The fts on the top paragraph, who did all of that? Apollo? I would say Superman and Majestic are peers strength and durability...I would give Maj the edge in speed and put Superman heat vision above Majestics.

Originally posted by Digi
See, I never understood this. Lifting skyscrapers, scouring the entire moon in under a minute with heat vision, slamming into the earth (including re-entry) at Mach speeds and creating a hole the size of a building and walking away from it like it's nothing. Taking Cpt. Atom to school before being tricked into getting overloaded on power. One-shotting a (literally) planet-sized space station. That's off the top of my head. There's probably a dozen others in there that Ben couldn't replicate. What feats were you looking at?

I said "not much stronger than thing", not "as strong as thing". He was sundipped when he cleaned the moon and where was it mentioned that it was under a minute? I didn't see the re-entry feat into his respect thread. Majestros was dying in that series and he was taken by surprise, later he manhandled atom by one hand. Really digi

http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=113rd.jpg
http://img368.imageshack.us/my.php?image=123dm.jpg



I never said superman is "as skilled as majestic" but he's certainly faster

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/NanosecondInteraction1.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/NanosecondInteraction2.jpg

"For a fraction of a nanosecond, an instant suspended between eternities of past and future", Superman interacted with hal without any discomfort or problem.

He also stops Professor Zoom in mid-blitz

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/TimeMasters-VanishingPoint5022.jpg

Superman has also moved a planet and aginst an opposing force nonetheless, heck he's pushed a ship towing both earth and moon through hyperspace in byrne era for more than 10 minutes. He's beaten and stalemated planet movers before like pocket-dimension superboy, Mon-el etc. I never said it wouldn't be close, majestic is a beast but you know superman is superman.



I don't think ben can replicate those feats, but someone stronger than him but not quite simon and namor level can do it. Good respect thread, but I never once brought up any losing charge instance, did I? I give him his due, but he's out of his class here.

Team 2, though not easily.

Originally posted by carver9
The fts on the top paragraph, who did all of that? Apollo?

Yes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I said "not much stronger than thing", not "as strong as thing". He was sundipped when he cleaned the moon and where was it mentioned that it was under a minute? I didn't see the re-entry feat into his respect thread. Majestros was dying in that series and he was taken by surprise, later he manhandled atom by one hand. Really digi

The one where he one-shots the Cthulu monster by flying into it started in space. The whole thing isn't posted in the respect thread, just the impact itself.

The under a minute thing was a mis-recollection on my part. Still, look at the scans. He wasn't taking his time with it.

Majestic's wonky showings in that arc aside, it's all canon for both companies, and Apollo looked awesome in 3 separate feats against CA, durability, strength, and heat vision. But I'm sure he's just a little above Thing.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I never said superman is "as skilled as majestic" but he's certainly faster

What year is that comic from? Looks dangerously close to PC.

I'd counter with this:
Originally posted by Galan007
Majestic can react on a nanosecond-by-nanosecond basis:

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/th_m_speed7.jpg

Or a feat that is strangely absent from his respect thread, but is also his best speed feat ever. He flies from space to earth, builds a Reed-esque tech device, and flies back to space, in literally a nanosecond iirc. Even with that Superman feat (all popular characters have their share of lunacy in the feats department) we're looking at a push for fight purposes.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman has also moved a planet and aginst an opposing force nonetheless, heck he's pushed a ship towing both earth and moon through hyperspace in byrne era for more than 10 minutes. He's beaten and stalemated planet movers before like pocket-dimension superboy, Mon-el etc. I never said it wouldn't be close, majestic is a beast but you know superman is superman.

I know Superman is a planet-mover, just letting you know they're on equal terms in pretty much every category, and I actually think Majestic has him in 1-2.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't think ben can replicate those feats, but someone stronger than him but not quite simon and namor level can do it. Good respect thread, but I never once brought up any losing charge instance, did I? I give him his due, but he's out of his class here.

My point is that any comparison to Ben, even saying he's only a little stronger than him, is laughable. I haven't seen anything dissuade me from that opinion, either feats or in the form of logic. He's the least powerful in this fight, but he'd also hold his own for a while. My guess is that eventually he'll go head to head with some big gun in DC and everyone will say "Oh, Apollo got an upgrade." And I'll be the one shaking my head. Apparently toppling skyscrapers, elder gods, and planet-sized ships is just barely enough to warrant low herald consideration.

Originally posted by Digi
Yes.



The one where he one-shots the Cthulu monster by flying into it started in space. The whole thing isn't posted in the respect thread, just the impact itself.

I don't see it in the respect thread. Can you give me the issue number?



Sure, but it wasn't shown how much time he took for that either. He was amped for it anyway.



That whole arc was a mess, changing characters' powers and personalities on a whim. I don't take anything in that arc seriously but its cannon, so to hell with it. That's one outlier for apollo, but hey ben has toppled galactus.





Action comics 642.



I'd counter that with this

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/superman_nano_second_reaction.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/as603p19.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/as603p20.jpg




Sure but fractions of nano-seconds are faster than nano-seconds and superman has done it twice. There goes the theory that majestic uses speed more than superman. That's not how it goesin forums, if you have feats you are more powerful.





Sure they are, untill kal goes all out.





I can sense your pain, I think that superman should be a skyfather level being but alas!!sadwalk

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Give Apollo sometime, I bet he's in Superman's class now. He was said to be Superman class or possibly in Stormwatch.

Yep, in Stormwatch issue 1 it was said that he's a Superman level meta.

That being said, Team 2 wins simply because of the Martian's telepathy.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't see it in the respect thread. Can you give me the issue number?

My collection is in another state atm, so no. But I can post the feat. It's the Cthulu one:
Originally posted by Digi
Big fragging monster.
http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=23ds7.jpg
Big fragging monster go Boom!
http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=planetaryauthority11rulcf1.jpg
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=planetaryauthority12rulqd5.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=24vq5.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=25lr9.jpg
…simply by speedblitzing the Earth, Apollo creates a massive shockwave and explosion to take the thing out, and is fine afterwards.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure, but it wasn't shown how much time he took for that either. He was amped for it anyway.

Define amped. It was within his power set. There were no special circumstances that gave him a boost. Amped implies something exterior to his natural powers. You might as well say every one of his dozens of good feats is "amped."

Originally posted by abhilegend
That whole arc was a mess, changing characters' powers and personalities on a whim. I don't take anything in that arc seriously but its cannon, so to hell with it.

Your own words give me my answer here:
Originally posted by abhilegend
if you have feats you are more powerful

So are you still claiming that he's Thing-level in some way? I feel like you tried to move the point of discussion here, because it seems like you're treating Apollo like the low-to-mid herald leveler he actually is.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sure but fractions of nano-seconds are faster than nano-seconds and superman has done it twice. There goes the theory that majestic uses speed more than superman. That's not how it goesin forums, if you have feats you are more powerful.

I think you've successfully proved that they are on roughly equal footing. Kudos. I didn't doubt Superman possessed such feats, I had just never seen them. Skill remains, however.

And as long as we're comparing feats, Majestic does about 1000x more in the "fly to earth, build impossibly advanced tech, fly back" scan than Kal does in any of his. The difficulty and length of the feat performed has to be considered along with the timeframe itself. I don't necessarily have a rooting interest in their matchup, I just think we should look at all aspects of the conflict. Given this evidence, I'll actually happily concede the slightest of edges to Superman in combat speed, though when dealing with such infinitessimal fractions of time, for practical purposes we're looking at a push.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I can sense your pain, I think that superman should be a skyfather level being but alas!!sadwalk

He's clearly not. And the "sense your pain" comment is a nice linguistic jab, common enough on the forums, intended to create a sense of weakness in one's opponent....either actual weakness if they respond to the comment, or just in the perception of their argument as viewed by others on the forum. The truth, however, is that there's no pain. I feel I've sufficiently defended my position on Apollo, I learned some new feats of Superman, and hopefully imparted some knowledge on these characters to you as well.

Originally posted by deathlife
Yep, in Stormwatch issue 1 it was said that he's a Superman level meta.

That being said, Team 2 wins simply because of the Martian's telepathy.

I forgot about his telepathy. Please make your considerations on only a physical confrontation level.

Both on the Wildstorm team have displayed telepathic resistance. I don't remember the details of the Majestic feat, but I think it's in his respect thread. From what I remember it was quite impressive. Apollo's was against Jackson King, and not as impressive, but still exists.

___

My bad, by the way, with part of my earlier post. The "Big Fraggin' Monster" scan did not originate in space. However, Apollo does have a re-entry feat where smashes into earth in a similar manner. I can picture the exact panel in my head where he walks away from it casually. Apparently it's not listed in his thread, which I'm surprised at. But meh, I can't catch 'em all apparently.

Team 2 takes majority, Apollo is the weak link. With prep Team 1 takes it because of Majestros superior intellect.

Originally posted by Digi
Both on the Wildstorm team have displayed telepathic resistance. I don't remember the details of the Majestic feat, but I think it's in his respect thread. From what I remember it was quite impressive. Majestic resisted an attempt from numerous alternate reality Daemonites that tried to take over his mind/body... That is especially impressive because those Daemonites were MORE powerful than the ones Majestic was accustomed to--they had already overtaken every sentient being in their universe, and overtaken nearly every sentient on Majestic's earth (inc. Spartan.)

Maj also resisted Brainchild's TP.

Spllit or a slightn advantage to team 2. Mr M can match Superman and Apollo most likely MM, but MM versatility will give them an edge.

Originally posted by Galan007
Majestic resisted an attempt from numerous alternate reality Daemonites that tried to take over his mind/body... That is especially impressive because those Daemonites were MORE powerful than the ones Majestic was accustomed to--they had already overtaken every sentient being in their universe, and overtaken nearly every sentient on Majestic's earth (inc. Spartan.)

Maj also resisted Brainchild's TP.
Majestros is more like superman than I realized
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/High%20end%20feats/RESIST%20MIND%20CONTROL%20THAT%20NO%20ONE%20CANT/AOS623VSPSI.jpg
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/High%20end%20feats/RESIST%20MIND%20CONTROL%20THAT%20NO%20ONE%20CANT/AOS623VSPSI2.jpg