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Battle 1.
Adam Warlock w/ Infinity Gauntlet
vs
Darkseid w/ A.L.E

Battle 2.
Magus w/ Infinity Gauntlet
vs
Orion w/ A.L.E

Battle 3. (tie breaker if necessary)
Thanos w/ Infinity Gauntlet
vs
Orion or Darkseid w/ A.L.E

Impossible to say...

Before Morrison watered it down, there were very few defenses against the ALE.. If you lived, it would control you. Power levels were basically irrelevant, all that mattered was if you were alive or not..

Basically, if the living world was a computer program, the ALE would be an exploit of the software that makes life possible.. Because of the ALE's nature as a part of the Source, I doubt the IG can, say, warp reality and make it so the ALE doesn't exist, even if the IG can potentially beat The Source being itself... (Whether or not one wants to even accept the Source being or not is up for another debate though, since Starlin is known for bastardizing New Gods mythology in general, since the Cosmic Odyssey)

It's kind of comparable to Data telling The Borg to go to sleep, in my opinion.

Yeah. Isnt' A.L.E now just a form of mind control?

So long as it's user is somewhat competent, the IG wins more times than not.

The ALE primarily affected mind/soul. The IG had absolute mastery over those aspects + power, space, reality, time.

Originally posted by Galan007
So long as it's user is somewhat competent, the IG wins more times than not.

The ALE primarily affected mind/soul. The IG had absolute mastery over those aspects + power, space, reality, time.

Yeah, but a corpse doesn't really have a mind to control anymore, so the ALE is clearly something besides conventional mind control. Even if the mind gem granted absolutely mastery of TP, it's debatable whether it could defend against whatever the ALE does.

Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, but a corpse doesn't really have a mind to control anymore, so the ALE is clearly something besides conventional mind control. Even if the mind gem granted absolutely mastery of TP, it's debatable whether it could defend against whatever the ALE does. I'm not saying the ALE hasn't preformed feats beyond mind/soul control (it has.) However, its primary purpose has always been centered around controlling sentient life. That's why the IG wins more times than not, imo.

depends on whether you think the IG's control over mind/soul surpasses the ALE's. in the 'old days' i'd say no way and take the ALE (i'd have said the ALE wielder could simply control the IG user). now? who knows? most likely depends on whether you're a dc or marvel person.

Originally posted by leonidas
depends on whether you think the IG's control over mind/soul surpasses the ALE's. in the 'old days' i'd say no way and take the ALE (i'd have said the ALE wielder could simply control the IG user). now? who knows? most likely depends on whether you're a dc or marvel person. Agreed. It also depends on who acts first. If the IG user acts first, they win. If the ALE user acts first, they win. If they act at the same time, the IG user wins imo.

Originally posted by Galan007
Agreed. It also depends on who acts first. If the IG user acts first, they win. If the ALE user acts first, they win. If they act at the same time, the IG user wins imo.

So it's basically Jesse Custer vs Saint of Killers.

Originally posted by Galan007
Agreed. It also depends on who acts first. If the IG user acts first, they win. If the ALE user acts first, they win. If they act at the same time, the IG user wins imo.

Originally posted by cdtm
So it's basically Jesse Custer vs Saint of Killers. I guess you could say that...

If the IG user acts first, it wins via atomizing the opposition, turning them to jello, hurling them through time, etc.
If the (classic) ALE user acts first, it wins via 'turning off' the IG user's sentience/free will before they have a chance to defend.
If they act at the same time, the IG user wins by having infinite power over mind/soul (which would certainly pose a very strong barrier for the ALE to bypass), along with absolute control over reality/power/space/time.

Just MO.

IG wins every single goddamn time.

is it because the IG gives the user chi.....?

Well the ALE is supossed to be gentically linked to it respective creation. I would speculate it would not work against an IG user from another creation.

Originally posted by lilshogun
Well the ALE is supossed to be gentically linked to it respective creation. I would speculate it would not work against an IG user from another creation.

By that logic, the IG wouldn't work on any DCU character either.

Ig every single friggin time.

Originally posted by Galan007
Agreed. It also depends on who acts first. If the IG user acts first, they win. If the ALE user acts first, they win. If they act at the same time, the IG user wins imo.

this is pretty good.

Yup! remember when Darkseid had the IG and tried to use it? Originally posted by cdtm
By that logic, the IG wouldn't work on any DCU character either.

IG

But the IG user has more flexibility. He could be fighting the ALE user while he is baskin from another time and reality. When Thanos had the IG, he can appear in multiple locations in the universe at the same time while getting a pedicure.Originally posted by Galan007
Agreed. It also depends on who acts first. If the IG user acts first, they win. If the ALE user acts first, they win. If they act at the same time, the IG user wins imo.

IG.

Originally posted by lilshogun
But the IG user has more flexibility. He could be fighting the ALE user while he is baskin from another time and reality. When Thanos had the IG, he can appear in multiple locations in the universe at the same time while getting a pedicure. That, again, is why this battle is almost entirely dependent on who acts first...

I think Darkseid w/ ALE would just be above the IG. IG users might give em problems in the 616 universe but assuming this isn't a dying Darkseid falling from the Fourth World stuck in some fragile human's body, I think he'd just be warping the entire Multiverse from a high perch beyond the IG's universal influence.

If it is dying Darkseid w/ ALE, I guess I'd agree with this: Originally posted by Galan007
That, again, is why this battle is almost entirely dependent on who acts first... I'm unfamiliar with Orion w/ ALE's feats.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If it is dying Darkseid w/ ALE, I guess I'd agree with this: I'm unfamiliar with Orion w/ ALE's feats. Imo, Orion has the *best* feats with the ALE. With a literal word he...
-Took possession of Darkseid
-Took possession of Metron
-Took possession of a Promethean Giant
-Took possession of a planet's populace, with his goal being possession of every sentient in the universe
-And the coup de gras was when he used the ALE to kill Ecruos (the equal/opposite/antithesis of the Source.)

The function of the ALE was, quite simply, absolute dominance over ANY/ALL sentient life--though if the IG user acted first, they could easily dispatch of the ALE user.

^ The immediacy of those feats is impressive. A dying Darkseid w/ ALE warped the entire DC Multiverse to reflect his own state though. Seems wider in scope to simple mental dominance to me.

^ The ALE had nothing to do with Darkseid warping the multiverse. It merely gave him control over *most* of the beings on earth.

sam

So you're one of those.

Sexy, you mean? Why, yes. I am.

Ty for noticing. bashful

superpoke

g007_wallet

How can ALE user attack an IG user if he decides be outside of time and space?

Originally posted by lilshogun
How can ALE user attack an IG user if he decides be outside of time and space? The ale can't ever win since the ig lets him know what's coming before it happens.

Originally posted by lilshogun
How can ALE user attack an IG user if he decides be outside of time and space? The IG still requires conscious thought in order to activate it's abilities. So if the ALE user reacted first, then the IG user would never get the chance to be outside of time and space, as their sentience/consciousness would essentially be 'shut off'.

Originally posted by Galan007
The IG still requires conscious thought in order to activate it's abilities. So if the ALE user reacted first, then the IG user would never get the chance to be outside of time and space, as their sentience/consciousness would essentially be 'shut off'. Ale can't override the ig's complete mastery over the mind/soul anyway. The ig also sees attacks coming.

Didn't Orion tell Darkseid to basically kill himself and didn't Darkseid live through it ?

Orion told Darkseid to kill himself, but then stopped him from doing so last second. Darky was completely helpless against the ALE's power--as was Metron, the Promethean Giant, Ecruos, etc.

And yes, you are off ignore... For the time being.

Originally posted by Galan007
Orion told Darkseid to kill himself, but then stopped him from doing so last second. Darky was completely helpless against the ALE's power--as was Metron, the Promethean Giant, Ecruos, etc.

And yes, you are off ignore... For the time being. Darkseid shot himself so the command was given. The ale failed. Acting like the ale beats the ig is just ridiculous. The ig can do anything the ale can do and then some.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Darkseid shot himself so the command was given. The ale failed. Oh that instance? Yeah, Black Racer interrupted before the task could be carried out successfully:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037838_d1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037841_d2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037842_d3.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037845_d4.jpg
However, Darkseid was CLEARLY subservient to the ALE's every whim.


...As was Granny Goodness and the armies of Apokolips:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037848_d5.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037849_d6.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037851_d7.jpg

Originally posted by Galan007
Oh that instance? Yeah, Black Racer interrupted before the task could be carried out successfully:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037838_d1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037841_d2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037842_d3.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037845_d4.jpg
However, Darkseid was CLEARLY subservient to the ALE's every whim.


...As was Granny Goodness and the armies of Apokolips:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037848_d5.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037849_d6.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11037851_d7.jpg The point is he attempted to take his own life. He failed so the a.l.e. failed. He gave Darkseid a clear command and he survived the encounter. Darkseid was powerless to resist but he still survived the encounter. The ig would maul any a.l.e. user.

The instance is clear: the ALE had absolute dominance over Darkseid. The ONLY reason he survived is because BR intervened. Additionally, we saw even MORE proof of the ALE's superiority over Darkseid during DotNG when Scott Free (with the full Equation) controlled Darkseid, and ALL of his Shadow Demons, to his every whim. ALE >g_infinity] Darkseid.

Stop trolling just to troll, or I will report you.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ The ALE had nothing to do with Darkseid warping the multiverse. It merely gave him control over *most* of the beings on earth.

Anyone with the I.G who is not a complete idiot should beat the A.L.E everytime.

Originally posted by Galan007
The instance is clear: the ALE had absolute dominance over Darkseid. The ONLY reason he survived is because BR intervened. Additionally, we saw even MORE proof of the ALE's superiority over Darkseid during DotNG when Scott Free (with the full Equation) controlled Darkseid, and ALL of his Shadow Demons, to his every whim. ALE >g_infinity] Darkseid.

Stop trolling just to troll, or I will report you. It did have complete dominance but Seid's attempt on his own life took time and failed. That's my point. Darkseid doesn't have complete mastery over mind and soul so of course he fell victim to it. The point I made is the time it took and the fact his suicide attempt also failed.

When did DS warped the multiverse with the ALE?

In fact, when did DS warp the multiverse in general without help and under his own power?

Originally posted by quanchi112
It did have complete dominance but Seid's attempt on his own life took time and failed. That's my point. Darkseid doesn't have complete mastery over mind and soul so of course he fell victim to it. The point I made is the time it took and the fact his suicide attempt also failed. READ THE SCANS. Orion WANTED Darkseid to take a long time to kill himself.

Srsly, stop trolling.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
In fact, when did DS warp the multiverse in general without help and under his own power? During FC, Darkseid's 'fall' created a singularity "where his heart used to be"--and said singularity was destroying the multiverse. Essentially Darkseid's fall was collapsing creation into a single hell where everything was Darkseid.

Originally posted by Galan007
READ THE SCANS. Orion WANTED Darkseid to take a long time to kill himself.

Srsly, stop trolling.

During FC, Darkseid's 'fall' created a singularity "where his heart used to be"--and said singularity was destroying the multiverse. Essentially Darkseid's fall was collapsing creation into a single hell where everything was Darkseid. The words a single shot makes my case for me. A single shot was taken and he lived.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Ale can't override the ig's complete mastery over the mind/soul anyway. The ig also sees attacks coming.

Didn't Orion tell Darkseid to basically kill himself and didn't Darkseid live through it ? I believe, and I could be wrong, that the A.L.E would have no problem dealing with someone that ONLY possessed either mind, or soul gems. I'm a little ify on the reality gem, but I guess that it would come down to the user. But all the gems working together and amped by the power gem would be too much, even for a badass like Darkseid.

Originally posted by Galan007
READ THE SCANS. Orion WANTED Darkseid to take a long time to kill himself.

Srsly, stop trolling.

During FC, Darkseid's 'fall' created a singularity "where his heart used to be"--and said singularity was destroying the multiverse. Essentially Darkseid's fall was collapsing creation into a single hell where everything was Darkseid.

Well that isn't exactly true my friend... Let's be honest here... It's not like DS has the power to effect the multiverse on his own with the wave of his hand. Let's look at the facts that actually made it possible for "him" to effect the multiverse..

1. he needed the ALE to win the war the heaven.. The ALE has been used by others, not just DS, and thus it's like a powerup of sorts.

2. the war in heaven cracked space and time which ALLOWED DS to fall to begin with. WIthout that crack.. which he didnt cause under his power.. nothing would've effected the multiverse

3. The broadcasting of the ALE further cracked time and space.. again, not DS's power

4. It wasn't DS and his power causing the multiverse to collapse. It was DS falling to a place he didn't belong that caused all the problems with the multiverse. He didn't belong there in that world and thus him falling to a place he didn't belong is what caused all the effects. It's similiar to other situations in Marvel where somebody does something in the 616 or in a alt timeline which has effects on the multiverse. They don't have the power themselves.. but a certain actions of theirs in the 616 (and it being the prime universe) cause problems all over.

Point is, it wasn't like DS was doing anything to the multiverse with his power, and he wouldn't have been able to do a thing if space and time wasn't cracked by the war (whcih he never planned on). All that was shown was the DS is important to the multiverse.. kinda like superman in that he's essential... Removing him and there being no "evil" personified has multiversal consequences. That and he showed incredile will power to no go down easily. However, let's not kid ourselves.. he did nothing multiversal with his power nor caused it with power. It was him simply falling to a place he didn't belong and that had a lot of consequences.

Darkseid, with the ALE, was a threat to the multiverse. Regardless of whether or not the ALE was of his own power or not or just an amp/power up, it enabled Darkseid to be a massive threat. It's no different from Thanos needing the Cosmic Cube or IG or HOTU to become a threat on a much wider scope than he is normally.

IG wins far far more versatile.

The way I see it is that the ALE has potentially multiversal ramifications (per Final Crisis) and could dominate sentient life with little, if any, resistance. The IG, while only universal in scope, offers a broader array of capabilities and methods of attack.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Darkseid, with the ALE, was a threat to the multiverse. Regardless of whether or not the ALE was of his own power or not or just an amp/power up, it enabled Darkseid to be a massive threat. It's no different from Thanos needing the Cosmic Cube or IG or HOTU to become a threat on a much wider scope than he is normally.

Never said otherwise Big Jake, but regardless, DS only caused what he did by having a powerup and because he was falling to a place he didn't belong. Not because he was throwing around his power wrecking the multiverse.

The ALE only allowed Darkseid to control sentient life--this was made blatantly clear throughout the story. The singularity that formed due to Darkseid's fall was solely responsible for mucking with the multiverse--this was also made blatantly clear.

Point being: the ALE did not add to the multiversal damage Darkseid's fall was causing. I'd be curious to see what proof there is to the contrary.

Originally posted by Galan007
I'd be curious to see what proof there is to the contrary. Lies.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Lies. Lies are just as good as proof around here. srug

Originally posted by Galan007
Lies are just as good as proof around here. srug

WANG ENDORSES THE ABOVE STATEMENT!!!!

Originally posted by Galan007
The ALE only allowed Darkseid to control sentient life--this was made blatantly clear throughout the story. The singularity that formed due to Darkseid's fall was solely responsible for mucking with the multiverse--this was also made blatantly clear.

Point being: the ALE did not add to the multiversal damage Darkseid's fall was causing. I'd be curious to see what proof there is to the contrary.

Well I hope you're not saying I said that... Though it was stated on panel that just the broadcasting of it caused space and time to crack futher...and it showed it causing some destruction other than that. So, I'm not sure about it ONLY doing that.

Anyways, my only point was, that DS didn't cause the multiverse to collapse by exerting his power. The multiverse was collapsing cause he was falling into the prime universe.. a place he didn't belong.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Anyways, my only point was, that DS didn't cause the multiverse to collapse by exerting his power. The multiverse was collapsing cause he was falling into the prime universe.. a place he didn't belong. This is 100% correct.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
I believe, and I could be wrong, that the A.L.E would have no problem dealing with someone that ONLY possessed either mind, or soul gems. I'm a little ify on the reality gem, but I guess that it would come down to the user. But all the gems working together and amped by the power gem would be too much, even for a badass like Darkseid. I disagree I don't see the a.l.e. being able to defeat just either gem user. It was also retconned into being resisted by those wired differently.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Darkseid, with the ALE, was a threat to the multiverse. Regardless of whether or not the ALE was of his own power or not or just an amp/power up, it enabled Darkseid to be a massive threat. It's no different from Thanos needing the Cosmic Cube or IG or HOTU to become a threat on a much wider scope than he is normally. I agree, but I'd stipulate that not all universal threats are equal. Darkseid with the A.L.E is a much bigger threat to the universe than guys like Annihilus, Lord Mar-vel, and Magus. Thanos with the gauntlet however would be an even bigger threat IMO primarily because the A.L.E affects the mind and free will, while the gauntlet affects everything. Complete mastery of the soul, mind, time, and reality provide four separate defenses. With the time gem Thanos would get the first attack everytime. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Thanos can tap into the gauntlet faster than Darkseid can use the equation. But that's just my humble opinion.