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http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/11060099_ff-11.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/11060102_ff-12.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/11060103_ff-13.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/11060104_ff-14.jpg

"The most powerful weapon ever constructed solely by man" blasts each of the following characters:

-Absorbing Man
-HotM Hulk
-Void (crab)
-Odin in the Destroyer armor (teh 2,000ft version!)
-Full powered Tyrant
-Abraxas
-WPOTC
-Galactus (assume he's devoured 4 planets in preparation)
-The 4th Celestial Host/Exitar
-Thanos /w/ IG

The characters being blasted by Sol's Anvil cannot attack it directly. They must stand in one place and take the blast head-on. However, IF a character is capable of manifesting shielding under their OWN power, they may do so to help defend against the blast--but that is the ONLY defense aside from sheer durability they may utilize... Also assume the Anvil is fully charged/functional before blasting each character (obviously.)

That said... How do they fare against it?

Dead -Absorbing Man
Dead -HotM Hulk
Dead -Void (crab)
Destroyed -Odin in the Destroyer armor (teh 2,000ft version!)
Dead -Full powered Tyrant
Injured? Not sure -Abraxas
Injured/Fine -WPOTC
Dead/Seriously injured -Galactus (assume he's devoured 4 planets in preparation)
Dead -The 4th Celestial Host/Exitar
Totally fine -Thanos /w/ IG

^ for the most part.

WPTOC has no feats. I'd put her in the dead category to be resurrected some years later.

I'd also put Galactus in the dead category. Sol's Anvil knocked a combined Celestial on it's ass, the same one that one-shotted the Galactus that ate 4 planets.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ for the most part.

WPTOC has no feats. I'd put her in the dead category to be resurrected some years later.

I'd also put Galactus in the dead category. Sol's Anvil knocked a combined Celestial on it's ass, the same one that one-shotted the Galactus that ate 4 planets.

Yeah, Abraxas and WPOTC have zero durability feats. Total shot in the dark.

What the hell does WPOTC stand for?

White Phoenix of the Crown.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ for the most part.

WPTOC has no feats. I'd put her in the dead category to be resurrected some years later.

I'd also put Galactus in the dead category. Sol's Anvil knocked a combined Celestial on it's ass, the same one that one-shotted the Galactus that ate 4 planets.

Didn't it more dissolve the armor combining the Celestials then actually hurting them? I mean the 3 remaining Celestials after the attack looked fine.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Didn't it more dissolve the armor combining the Celestials then actually hurting them? I mean the 3 remaining Celestials after the attack looked fine.

I doubt it actually hurt the Celestials, although it certainly affected them to the point they could no longer maintain their Voltron-like form. In my opinion, Sol's Anvil just gave them a good shock to the system.

Not sure what to make out of the Sol Anvil. Best I can describe it is a weaponized sun.

Does it takes the Sun's energy, and multiply it...or simply channel its power? If its the later, Phoenix did just fine being at the heart of a Sun going Super Nova.

It channels energy from multiple sources (see the second scan in the OP.)

Originally posted by "Id"
Not sure what to make out of the Sol Anvil. Best I can describe it is a weaponized sun.

Does it takes the Sun's energy, and multiply it...or simply channel its power? If its the later, Phoenix did just fine being at the heart of a Sun going Super Nova.

As per Future Franklin, Sol's Anvil = "The power of the sun, channeled through a fixed point, buttressed by the Earth herself.."

So, yes, I assume it's the latter.

Originally posted by "Id"
If its the later, Phoenix did just fine being at the heart of a Sun going Super Nova. For what it's worth, BRB preformed a feat very similar--but I doubt very much that he could survive a blast from Sol's Anvil. /shrug

Originally posted by Utrigita
Didn't it more dissolve the armor combining the Celestials then actually hurting them? I mean the 3 remaining Celestials after the attack looked fine.

Originally posted by Doon
I doubt it actually hurt the Celestials, although it certainly affected them to the point they could no longer maintain their Voltron-like form. In my opinion, Sol's Anvil just gave them a good shock to the system.

The Anvil destroyed a form that was presumably greater than the sum of its parts. I mean, if it made them weaker, why would they do it?

Originally posted by Cogito
The Anvil destroyed a form that was presumably greater than the sum of its parts. I mean, if it made them weaker, why would they do it?

Sol's Anvil did, in fact, destroy their unified form. When all was said and done though, they were just restored to their original forms, i.e., three Celestials and one dead one (originally defeated by Galactus). And they only took on the unified form in the first place to battle the aforementioned Galactus. My point is, whether or not the Celestials were affected by Sol's Anvil (which they obviously were), the weapon didn't even come close to stopping them. To be honest, I don't even think the Celestials really process pain the way humans and similar organisms do.

^ Sol's Anvil did better than a Galactus that fed on 4 planets. Who, in turn, had been handily dealing with 4 individual Mad Celestials. Originally posted by "Id"
Not sure what to make out of the Sol Anvil. Best I can describe it is a weaponized sun.

Does it takes the Sun's energy, and multiply it...or simply channel its power? If its the later, Phoenix did just fine being at the heart of a Sun going Super Nova. If it just redirected a small focused portion of the Sun's power, I'd agree it doesn't sound impressive in context. But then again, we see what Superman does with an infinitesimal portion of the Sun's energy.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Sol's Anvil did better than a Galactus that fed on 4 planets. Who, in turn, had been handily dealing with 4 individual Mad Celestials. If it just redirected a small focused portion of the Sun's power, I'd agree it doesn't sound impressive in context. But then again, we see what Superman does with an infinitesimal portion of the Sun's energy.

Well, Galactus was able to take out one of the 4 Mad Celestials, leaving only 3 behind, which is fairly impressive. Had the other three chosen not to combine, I don't think Sol's Anvil would have taken all 3 of them down in one shot. Perhaps it would have stopped one of them, however, leaving just 2. It's hard to tell since we don't know how much more powerful Voltron Celestial is in comparison to the other three in their original forms. I'm also curious if the other 3 were able to siphon off remaining energies from the Celestial who fell to Galactus, adding some of his power to their own.

Originally posted by Doon
Well, Galactus was able to take out one of the 4 Mad Celestials, leaving only 3 behind, which is fairly impressive. Had the other three chosen not to combine, I don't think Sol's Anvil would have taken all 3 of them down in one shot. Perhaps it would have stopped one of them, however, leaving just 2. It's hard to tell since we don't know how much more powerful Voltron Celestial is in comparison to the other three in their original forms. I'm also curious if the other 3 were able to siphon off remaining energies from the Celestial who fell to Galactus, adding some of his power to their own. The Voltron Celestial was FAR MORE powerful in comparison to the other three in their original forms. All four individual Mad Celestials attacked Galactus simultaneously and Galactus tanked their attacks and even defeated one of them outright. This same Galactus got one-shotted by the Voltron Celestial. The difference in power should be apparent.

WPOTC have my opinion on Jean

Celestials just awesome

Most powerful by man....Go FF

Most powerful weapon in the Multiverse...anyone remember what that is I do

Galactus never had a chance to attack the Voltron Celestial, though, so we don't know if he might have been able to shatter it the way that Sol's Anvil did/does. Obviously being that they combined the power of 3 celestials and then presumably used the casing of the one dead Celestial for extra armor they had a lot more firepower at their disposal, but not necessarily that much more durability. Could be, but we just don't know, and it isn't as if Galactus tried and failed.

As mentioned, the description of the weapon was that it channeled a bunch of energy from the sun into a blast, which is not at all impressive considering we've seen characters like Mad-God Sector 3600 throw entire suns at Green Lanterns before and, indeed, one of DC's big villains is a sentient sun (and characters like Pheonix feed on suns!).

But it probably IS a very serious portion of the sun's energy -- a careful reading of HIckman's run shows what I believe to be a subtle retcon -- that the apocalyptic future of Millar's Defenders (from his FF run -- the guys that later went to Nu Earth, before it was destroyed by Galactus in Hickman's run) came about when 'the sun suddenly and inexplicably dimmed' (that isn't the exact phrasing, but it's close enough).

So the use of Sol's Anvil here is what causes the Defender's future to exist in the first place.

^ The idea that Sol's Anvil only channeled a portion of the Sun's energy shouldn't diminish the power it demonstrated. In comics, the Sun's energy has its own share of low and high feats.

On one end of the spectrum, channeling 1/5th of the Sun's energy merely healed Galactus to normal levels in the epilogue to Chaos War even when he wasn't geometrically shrinking.

On the other end of the spectrum, Superman sitting in the Sun for only a few minutes empowered him to levels that outmuscled a Warworld's FTL engines amped by Imperiex's energies.

Sol's Anvil should be measured by what it accomplished, not what energy it harnessed. It's the most reliable way to measure it considering the above. The theory connecting Hickman to Millar is certainly interesting though. It certainly would have been a convenient, clever and completely sensical opportunity to reinforce continuity. In that vein, I was anticipating that Doom would use his MoD powers to stall the Mad Celestials but that didn't happen obviously.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ The idea that Sol's Anvil only channeled a portion of the Sun's energy shouldn't diminish the power it demonstrated. In comics, the Sun's energy has its own share of low and high feats.

It's still just a star.





Yeah, but Superman hypermetabolizes the energy of the sun. It's not that he's simply solar powered -- his biology amplifies the energy.



Sol's Anvil should be judged on both what it accomplished and how it accomplished it, especially when these particular alternate universe Celestials have an indeterminant level of power -- here they blast the earth and the Fantastic Four to little effect, and earlier they were destroyed with ease by a few weapons Reed Richards fished out of his closet

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It certainly would have been a convenient, clever and completely sensical opportunity to reinforce continuity. In that vein, I was anticipating that Doom would use his MoD powers to stall the Mad Celestials but that didn't happen obviously.

You edited this bit in after I 'quoted' you.

It's almost certainly the goal there -- the original Millar Defenders concept made no mention of the sun losing power, that I can recall, but instead was about a paucity of planetary resources and a population explosion.

Hickman made a small retcon to fit it all in, as he loves puzzle pieces. You can see him using continuity at various points in his run, like dealing with Doom's loss of intelligence from Pak's Hulk stuff, and he's said before one of his joys is fitting in what other people are doing or have done. He's made frequent use of Millar's run -- the Galactus Corpse and Nu Earth and all those characters.

Originally posted by Desaad
It's still just a star. And planets are just planets. But 4 planets empowered Galactus to the point where he could no-sell multiple Nega Bombs, wreck a Kree starfleet that was defeating the Annihilation Wave, and fight Mad Celestials. Originally posted by Desaad
Yeah, but Superman hypermetabolizes the energy of the sun. It's not that he's simply solar powered -- his biology amplifies the energy. I am not aware of anything that bars Sol Anvil from doing something similar. Originally posted by Desaad
Sol's Anvil should be judged on both what it accomplished and how it accomplished it, especially when these particular alternate universe Celestials have an indeterminant level of power -- here they blast the earth and the Fantastic Four to little effect, and earlier they were destroyed with ease by a few weapons Reed Richards fished out of his closet They defeated the entire Council of Reeds off-panel. They beat Franklin Richards. They one-shotted a Galactus that ate 4 planets.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And planets are just planets. But 4 planets empowered Galactus to the point where he could no-sell multiple Nega Bombs and fight Mad Celestials.

Ah, EXACTLY. That's exactly it. Just as Superman hypermetabolizes energy, Galactus could well hypermetabolize the energy of those planets. It need not even be that the energy of the planets is what he directly puts out, as he wields "The Power Cosmic", rather than the bio-energy of planets.




They just described what it did. It's described in issue 15 of the FF series. If they had said "channels and amplifies", then we'd be good to go. But that isn't how they described it, so that isn't what it does.




They beat Franklin Richards...kind of. By attacking his mind. How many fights has this Franklin won on his own? And issue 15 makes it clear that he is holding back for this coming moment.

Again, we saw straight away that some of 616 Reeds' weapons were killing the Celestials without issue, with one shot, in the first arc of the series.

And yes, they one shotted Galactus, who had been fighting them for a while and had just, as you say, no sold the Kree Armada's ultimate attacks. Which gives us absolutely no idea how they would have weathered a blast from that same Galactus, had he had a chance to get one off. He didn't, so we don't know.

Originally posted by Desaad
Galactus never had a chance to attack the Voltron Celestial, though, so we don't know if he might have been able to shatter it the way that Sol's Anvil did/does. Obviously being that they combined the power of 3 celestials and then presumably used the casing of the one dead Celestial for extra armor they had a lot more firepower at their disposal, but not necessarily that much more durability. Could be, but we just don't know, and it isn't as if Galactus tried and failed. Imo, you seem to be digging for reasons to make the "mad" Celestials seem less impressive than they are. The Celestial mecha was obviously meant to be more powerful in every way. That's why, when they began merging, Galactus exclaimed: "No!" He knew what their power would become--he knew that he would be nothing in comparison. This is also why, in an earlier issue, one of the Council of Reed members (which have access to multiple IGs/UNs) stated: "Consider it good fortune that they did not combine", shortly after he/they fled from the individual "mad" Celestials.

I dunno, I just can't follow the logic that 4 Celestials merging into a single amalgam would retain the same durability that they each had individually... Especially when said fusion blatantly increased their overall power so significantly. /shrug

Originally posted by Desaad
They beat Franklin Richards...kind of. By attacking his mind. A Celestial KO'd Franklin by blasting him casually:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11085545_FF_15_TheGroup_019.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11085550_FF_15_TheGroup_020.jpg

Good thing they weren't merged.

yes

Originally posted by Galan007
Imo, you seem to be digging for reasons to make the "mad" Celestials seem less impressive than they are. The Celestial mecha was obviously meant to be more powerful in every way. That's why, when they began merging, Galactus exclaimed: "No!" He knew what their power would become--he knew that he would be nothing in comparison. This is also why, in an earlier issue, one of the Council of Reed members (which have access to multiple IGs/UNs) stated: "Consider it good fortune that they did not combine", shortly after he/they fled from the individual "mad" Celestials.

I dunno, I just can't follow the logic that 4 Celestials merging into a single amalgam would retain the same durability that they each had individually... Especially when said fusion blatantly increased their overall power so significantly. /shrug

A Celestial KO'd Franklin by blasting him casually:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11085545_FF_15_TheGroup_019.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11085550_FF_15_TheGroup_020.jpg

Good thing they weren't merged.

I don't think the analogy of "Voltron" that's been thrown around here is correct. I think the more apt comparison is the Transformer combiner teams from the old G1 Transformers cartoons.

The gist is that while the individual members had varying degrees of power in their own right, by the time they combined into a gestalt form their durability, power, strength, even size all increased multiple fold; a blast that could KO one individual member would harmlessly glance off the combined form.

^

Originally posted by Desaad
Ah, EXACTLY. That's exactly it. Just as Superman hypermetabolizes energy, Galactus could well hypermetabolize the energy of those planets. It need not even be that the energy of the planets is what he directly puts out, as he wields "The Power Cosmic", rather than the bio-energy of planets.

They just described what it did. It's described in issue 15 of the FF series. If they had said "channels and amplifies", then we'd be good to go. But that isn't how they described it, so that isn't what it does. If they had said "absorbs and hypermetabolizes", then we'd be good to go. But that isn't how they described it, so that isn't how Galactus works. Sound familiar?

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. In any case, the implications are readily apparent, which should not be a foreign concept to you since you unwittingly invoked it with your Galactus comment. Originally posted by Desaad
They beat Franklin Richards...kind of. By attacking his mind. How many fights has this Franklin won on his own? And issue 15 makes it clear that he is holding back for this coming moment.

Again, we saw straight away that some of 616 Reeds' weapons were killing the Celestials without issue, with one shot, in the first arc of the series.

And yes, they one shotted Galactus, who had been fighting them for a while and had just, as you say, no sold the Kree Armada's ultimate attacks. Which gives us absolutely no idea how they would have weathered a blast from that same Galactus, had he had a chance to get one off. He didn't, so we don't know. Galan007 and Power Cosmic II have already offered precise rebuttals to your speculations. They don't need restating.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The Voltron Celestial was FAR MORE powerful in comparison to the other three in their original forms. All four individual Mad Celestials attacked Galactus simultaneously and Galactus tanked their attacks and even defeated one of them outright. This same Galactus got one-shotted by the Voltron Celestial. The difference in power should be apparent.

Voltron Celestial = Three Mad Celestials + residual energies from the other Celestial originally defeated by Galactus. So, yes, a Voltron Celestial is obviously more powerful than a single Celestial in its original form. That said, if the three remaining Celestials had chosen to hit Galactus with concussive blasts at the very same time, he would likely have fallen much in the same way he did against the Voltron Celestial. Also, Galactus appeared to be grappling with the four Celestials before he took down one of them; he didn't really "tank" their attacks -- they were just struggling.

Originally posted by Galan007
A Celestial KO'd Franklin by blasting him casually:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11085545_FF_15_TheGroup_019.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/11085550_FF_15_TheGroup_020.jpg

Good thing they weren't merged.

That particular scene was meant to coincide with another scene from Fantastic Four#603, where Franklin, along with his other family members, were blasted by the 3 Celestials, who broke through Susan's forcefield. She was the first one to get up.

As for Franklin getting KO'd, yeah, that's no surprise. Although, he's an immensely powerful character, he still feels and reacts like a normal human being. If his own sister pushed him hard enough, he'd fall down. That's why the Mad Celestials referred to him as an anomaly. He's a creature capable of mass destruction, but on the same token, he's vulnerable due to his obvious humanity.

Adult Franklin, on the other hand, seems to be a lot more experienced and conscious of what he can do. It should be interesting to see what happens when he confronts the Mad Celestials in #604.

Originally posted by Desaad
Ah, EXACTLY. That's exactly it. Just as Superman hypermetabolizes energy, Galactus could well hypermetabolize the energy of those planets. It need not even be that the energy of the planets is what he directly puts out, as he wields "The Power Cosmic", rather than the bio-energy of planets.




They just described what it did. It's described in issue 15 of the FF series. If they had said "channels and amplifies", then we'd be good to go. But that isn't how they described it, so that isn't what it does.




They beat Franklin Richards...kind of. By attacking his mind. How many fights has this Franklin won on his own? And issue 15 makes it clear that he is holding back for this coming moment.

Again, we saw straight away that some of 616 Reeds' weapons were killing the Celestials without issue, with one shot, in the first arc of the series.

And yes, they one shotted Galactus, who had been fighting them for a while and had just, as you say, no sold the Kree Armada's ultimate attacks. Which gives us absolutely no idea how they would have weathered a blast from that same Galactus, had he had a chance to get one off. He didn't, so we don't know.


Agreed. Nice to see that someone actually reads the words, as opposed to simply drawing conclusions from pictures.

Originally posted by Doon
Voltron Celestial = Three Mad Celestials + residual energies from the other Celestial originally defeated by Galactus. So, yes, a Voltron Celestial is obviously more powerful than a single Celestial in its original form. That said, if the three remaining Celestials had chosen to hit Galactus with concussive blasts at the very same time, he would likely have fallen much in the same way he did against the Voltron Celestial. Also, Galactus appeared to be grappling with the four Celestials before he took down one of them; he didn't really "tank" their attacks -- they were just struggling. All 4 attacked Galactus simultaneously. Your prevarications are shockingly ignorant of what actually occurred on-panel. If you think they were rushing to give him a hug, I'm not hear to humor such farces.

Either way, enough has been said by multiple posters concerning the smear campaign that has become readily evident. There's little here that could be considered constructive conversation. Just speculation, false distinctions and a shocking disregard for common sense.

Originally posted by Power Cosmic II
a blast that could KO one individual member would harmlessly glance off the combined form. sometimes

rumble dismantled devastator with his piston rams creating shockwaved on the floor (the floor being the hull of astrotrain, so that's another point deducted in the theory) in the REAL transformers movie, and rumble is just one of soundwave's cassette minions

it's not really a sound argument when transformers are involved

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ for the most part.

WPTOC has no feats. I'd put her in the dead category to be resurrected some years later.



Buuulllshit by the thread makers terms the characters are prepped and allowed to defend themselves against the blast through shielding and when that isnt part of the characters powerset we judge this from whatever durability they've shown as well. Jean as Phoenix has happily bathed in the energy of stars first (arguably )in the Dark Phoenix Saga and again in New X-men when Xorneto sabotaged Asteroid M sending Jean and Logan into the Sun. Please acquaint yourself with the comics the character in question is featured in

^ Stow your nonsense. Thor has sat in a Sun as has Surfer. A weakened devastated Galactus "happily bathed in the actual Sun" also. We saw what Sol's Anvil did to an amped Galactus that had fed on 4 planets.

Your comment is both laughable in its nearsightedness and the scope of sheer idiocy reached.

Read some comics.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Stow your nonsense. Thor has sat in a Sun as has Surfer. A weakened devastated Galactus "happily bathed in the actual Sun" also. We saw what Sol's Anvil did to an amped Galactus that had fed on 4 planets.

Your comment is both laughable in its nearsightedness and the scope of sheer idiocy reached.

Read some comics.

Your response as expected comes after a superficial look at my initial post. As ever this is why in your dealings with me you always come undone

Your post stated that Jean had no feats whatsoever to be considered capable of surviving Sols Anvil which of course is rubbish.

In response i reiterated the threadmakers point that the characters are prepped and are judged on both their ability to create shielding and on their durability.

Now you tell me, do you think Jeans powerset gives her the capability of creating protective shielding?

Is Jeans ability to do this common knowledge?

Should i therefore have to spell it out to anyone but the most simple minded amongst us here?

So with that in mind thinking emphasizing what the threadmakers criteria for judging the characters is, i merely mentioned some durability feats of Jean related to the Sun from which Sols Anvil draws its power.

It appears i overestimated your capacity. Be embarassed

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
All 4 attacked Galactus simultaneously. Your prevarications are shockingly ignorant of what actually occurred on-panel. If you think they were rushing to give him a hug, I'm not hear to humor such farces.

Either way, enough has been said by multiple posters concerning the smear campaign that has become readily evident. There's little here that could be considered constructive conversation. Just speculation, false distinctions and a shocking disregard for common sense.

Yes, 4 of them attacked him simultaneously. Whether you like it or not, though, the precise nature of their attacks is worthy of notice. Prior to combining, did they extend their arms at the same time and blast Galactus with beams of concussive force? Well, we don't know for sure because it wasn't revealed on-panel. The merge tactic simply allowed them to better focus on their target; and it also prevented Galactus from picking them off one by one.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your response as expected comes after a superficial look at my initial post. As ever this is why in your dealings with me you always come undone

Your post stated that Jean had no feats whatsoever to be considered capable of surviving Sols Anvil which of course is rubbish.

In response i reiterated the threadmakers point that the characters are prepped and are judged on both their ability to create shielding and on their durability.

Now you tell me, do you think Jeans powerset gives her the capability of creating protective shielding?

Is Jeans ability to do this common knowledge?

Should i therefore have to spell it out to anyone but the most simple minded amongst us here?

So with that in mind thinking emphasizing what the threadmakers criteria for judging the characters is, i merely mentioned some durability feats of Jean related to the Sun from which Sols Anvil draws its power.

It appears i overestimated your capacity. Be embarassed But to be fair, Jean 'bathing in the heart of stars' really doesn't mean much in the way of resisting a blast from Sol's Anvil. As has been mentioned: multiple heralds (ie. BRB, Surfer, Thor, Drax, etc. etc.) have done the same--however, they certainly aren't tanking a blast from the Anvil. /shrug

Where her shielding is concerned: frankly, I don't know what she is capable of blocking... But that's not what I'm questioning/debating/talking about, either (before you start.)

ODG...GS, don't fight.

This is why we can't have nice things.

it's good when they fight though

you lose, mindset

Shut up when you're talking to me.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
sometimes

rumble dismantled devastator with his piston rams creating shockwaved on the floor (the floor being the hull of astrotrain, so that's another point deducted in the theory) in the REAL transformers movie, and rumble is just one of soundwave's cassette minions

it's not really a sound argument when transformers are involved

Devastator is the weakest combiner. It's flawed reasoning to use him as a measuring stick of their durability in general.

See Predaking, Abominus, Liokaiser (no sold attacks on numerous occasions), Superion (who tanked multiple blasts that would have otherwise done in individual autobots in Season 3) etc.

People are getting too hung up on the definition of the Anvil and its power. I mean seriously, it's a comic.

Sentry had the power of "a million exploding suns". According to http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/snovcn.html,


So 1,000,000*10^44, or 1 with 50 zeroes after it (is the equivalent power in suns, with my approximate and made up math)...

By that measure, Bob combing his hair back cause more destruction than the Anvil. But it doesn't matter, because it's all made up by people without physics degrees, and people who don't give a shit about proper units of measurement.

K? Good.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The Voltron Celestial

Form blazing sword/blade/cutlass

Originally posted by Galan007
But to be fair, Jean 'bathing in the heart of stars' really doesn't mean much in the way of resisting a blast from Sol's Anvil. As has been mentioned: multiple heralds (ie. BRB, Surfer, Thor, Drax, etc. etc.) have done the same--however, they certainly aren't tanking a blast from the Anvil. /shrug

Where her shielding is concerned: frankly, I don't know what she is capable of blocking... But that's not what I'm questioning/debating/talking about, either (before you start.)

But she never just bathed in a sun, she bathed in it and then went on to absorb all of its energy. A prepped Jean is not being harmed by Sols Anvil

Didn't SS absorb the energy of a sun, or was it only part of it?

Im pretty sure the issue is that any kind of Sun bathing or direct resistance of Suns, Nova's etc whether from Jean grey, Silver surfer or Thor does not serve as precedent upon which a case for resisting Sol's anvil can be made as to accomplish what it did on panel (greatly harming combined celestials)...it would logically have to be alot more powerful than the levels of attack (bathing in the heart of stars etc) that are mostly being referenced here......Hence better evidence than that for both Jean and all the other characters here needs to be provided.....pretty straightforward stuff

Originally posted by Naija boy
Im pretty sure the issue is that any kind of Sun bathing or direct resistance of Suns, Nova's etc whether from Jean grey, Silver surfer or Thor does not serve as precedent upon which a case for resisting Sol's anvil can be made as to accomplish what it did on panel (greatly harming combined celestials)...it would logically have to be alot more powerful than the levels of attack (bathing in the heart of stars etc) that are mostly being referenced here......Hence better evidence than that for both Jean and all the other characters here needs to be provided.....pretty straightforward stuff

Not really. The posts ive made will suffice. Jean did not just bathe within a star, she went to the centre and absorbed all of its energy into her being as a snack and she was still hungry afterwards.

Sols Anvil channels portions of energy from the Sun for destructive blasts. Do you believe that a prepped Jean can be harmed by Sols Anvil with this point in mind?

I'd hope not. That would be illogical.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Im pretty sure the issue is that any kind of Sun bathing or direct resistance of Suns, Nova's etc whether from Jean grey, Silver surfer or Thor does not serve as precedent upon which a case for resisting Sol's anvil can be made as to accomplish what it did on panel (greatly harming combined celestials)...it would logically have to be alot more powerful than the levels of attack (bathing in the heart of stars etc) that are mostly being referenced here......Hence better evidence than that for both Jean and all the other characters here needs to be provided.....pretty straightforward stuff

errr...absorbing the energy of a star into her being is nice and all and certainly shows that she has great energy absorption but im presuming the intention of the thread starter wasnt to have any of the characters.....(many who absorbing a star would be well within their capabilities)...simply absorb the energy or manipulate it in some way. Galan can make himself clear on this....but im under the impression that they were meant to resist it either with or without shielding as opposed to absorbing/channeling/manipulating etc. Hence here absorption of a star is not that painfully relevant if we are talking about durability or ability to tank the blast....

Im actually two issues behind on the FF stuff so i havent even read Sol's anvil appearances myself and im not trying to make a determination regarding its formidability, just pointing out what seems to be a clear disconnect between the stipulations of the thread and the evidence being provided...for reasons im still not sure of as it is pretty straightforward stuff

Originally posted by Naija boy
errr...absorbing the energy of a star into her being is nice and all and certainly shows that she has great energy absorption but im presuming the intention of the thread starter wasnt to have any of the characters.....(many who absorbing a star would be well within their capabilities)...simply absorb the energy or manipulate it in some way. Galan can make himself clear on this....but im under the impression that they were meant to resist it either with or without shielding as opposed to absorbing/channeling/manipulating etc. Hence here absorption of a star is not that painfully relevant if we are talking about durability....

Ive actually two issues behind on the FF stuff so i havent even read Sol's anvil appearances myself, just pointing out what seems to be a clear disconnect between the stipulations of the thread and the evidence being provided... Even if Jean were capable of absorbing the blast (which I personally doubt), such a tactic isn't allowed for the purposes of this thread.

Character durability is mainly what I'm trying to gauge.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/NullBombAbsorb.jpg

Thor > Phoenix > Galactus.

Originally posted by Naija boy
errr...absorbing the energy of a star into her being is nice and all and certainly shows that she has great energy absorption but im presuming the intention of the thread starter wasnt to have any of the characters.....(many who absorbing a star would be well within their capabilities)...simply absorb the energy or manipulate it in some way. Galan can make himself clear on this....but im under the impression that they were meant to resist it either with or without shielding as opposed to absorbing/channeling/manipulating etc. Hence here absorption of a star is not that painfully relevant if we are talking about durability or ability to tank the blast....

Im actually two issues behind on the FF stuff so i havent even read Sol's anvil appearances myself and im not trying to make a determination regarding its formidability, just pointing out what seems to be a clear disconnect between the stipulations of the thread and the evidence being provided...for reasons im still not sure of as it is pretty straightforward stuff

Its not a clear disconnect at all. Its a misunderstanding on your behalf, possibly my fault for not making it clear enough where im going with this.

Characters can survive with both their durability and their ability to create a shield, they are prepped.

Jean has shown durability enough to not only withstand the internal energies of a star, but durability enough to go on to absorb all of that energy into her very being. She absorbed the energy of a whole star and was not anywhere near her capacity and this was a Jean with psychic circuit breakers restricting her access to her full power which speaks even more for her durability. I'm not suggesting as a tactic Jean would be manipulating the blast in anyway, not once did i say or even suggest that. What im saying is to be able to bathe in and then take in the energies of an entire star into her body is a feat of durability in itself. The energies her body would have withstood to do so are exponentially greater than a blast from Sols Anvil which is merely channeling a comparatively tiny fraction of a stars power.

Then we havent even gotten into her ability to create shielding. The womans tapped into the nexus of all psychic energy in the multiverse, the living Big Bang which spawned reality. With that in mind its kind of ridiculous to believe that she couldnt easily create shielding to shrug off a blast containing a fraction of the Suns power.

Furthermore the amalgamated Celestials were caught off guard by the attack, there was no prep for them. They had no knowledge that they were going to be attacked. Given Celestials are supposed to be above Cube Beings i doubt Sols Anvil wouldve scratched this amalgamation if it was prepped and bolstered itself for an attack. Please consider everything within context

Originally posted by Galan007
Even if Jean were capable of absorbing the blast (which I personally doubt), such a tactic isn't allowed for the purposes of this thread.

Character durability is mainly what I'm trying to gauge.

Absorbing or manipulating the energy was never ever a tactic that i suggested

To withstand the energies and internal pressure of a star and then absorb all of that energy in its entirety is a feat of durability in and of itself. A point that seemed so obvious to me i didnt think i had to break it down.

For Jeans body to have been able to withstand such massive energies when in a severely weakened state speaks volumes about a prepped Jeans durability.

Then when you factor in the shielding she can create tapped into the life force of reality from which the stars derive from anyway, i doubt a blast from Sols Anvil is gonna tickle her.

Please bear in mind the Celestials were struck unaware, prepped the blast arguably would not have done a thing

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Absorbing or manipulating the energy was never ever a tactic that i suggested Okay, cool beans.

Just saying that enduring the internal forces of a star is a herald-level durability feat... And no herald is tanking a blast from the Anvil.

err...Ok so you view that Sol's anvil as literally nothing more than a direct blast containing a fraction of the Suns energy....Seen. Just on the surface i find that a bit incredible (cause that would make it a mid herald level blast) but ill reserve judgement till i have time to go over the comic thoroughly.

Originally posted by Galan007
Okay, cool beans.

Just saying that enduring the internal forces of a star is a herald-level durability feat... And no herald is tanking a blast from the Anvil.

And in response to that i reminded you that a power restricted Jean not only did that but absorbed the entirety of those massive energies into her body which is a feat of durability itself.

If her body can withstand such energies in a weakened state, then Sols Anvil is gonna be no trouble for a prepped White Phoenix Of The Crown

The Celestials were not prepped for the attack and all it did was separate their bond not destroy any of them. The amalgamation arguably could have withstood the blast if they were prepped like the characters here are.

Originally posted by Naija boy
err...Ok so you view that Sol's anvil as literally nothing more than a direct blast containing a fraction of the Suns energy....Seen. Just on the surface i find that a bit incredible (cause that would make it a mid herald level blast) but ill reserve judgement till i have time to go over the comic thoroughly.

Youre voicing surprise when you havent even read the comic. Its probably a good thing that you do just that, then you'll see that the Celestials were not prepared for the attack, they were caught unawares and even so all it did was separate the amalgamation into the individual Celestials, not destroy any of them.

In the same way a 4 yr old kid could run into you and knock you over if youre caught completely unawares, but if you see them coming and youre prepped for impact then that kid aint doing a thing

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/NullBombAbsorb.jpg

Thor > Phoenix > Galactus.

Isn't Thor scheduled to kill the Phoenix in the upcoming weeks? With the Avengers coming out in May, I think Marvel will let Thor kill the birdy. I mean they let a nobody like Xorn do it.

hey wwk

i doubt it

Originally posted by guy222
hey wwk

i doubt it

Nah, Thor will at least give it a beat down.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
To withstand the energies and internal pressure of a star and then absorb all of that energy in its entirety is a feat of durability in and of itself. A point that seemed so obvious to me i didnt think i had to break it down.
lolwut.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And in response to that i reminded you that a power restricted Jean not only did that but absorbed the entirety of those massive energies into her body which is a feat of durability itself.

If her body can withstand such energies in a weakened state, then Sols Anvil is gonna be no trouble for a prepped White Phoenix Of The Crown

The Celestials were not prepped for the attack and all it did was separate their bond not destroy any of them. The amalgamation arguably could have withstood the blast if they were prepped like the characters here are. Galactus has absorbed stars in their entirety in Nova.

Galactus' body can withstand such energies in a devastatingly weakened state in Silver Surfer. Sol's Anvil was a problem for a highly amped Galactus in Fantastic Four.

You're awful at this. Just awful. facepalm

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Nah, Thor will at least give it a beat down.

isn't anything thor can do vs the force good friend...we will see how marvel does

hell, thor shows his face vs the celestials coming up...there's another beatdown

how did u like the recent ff stories

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre voicing surprise when you havent even read the comic. Its probably a good thing that you do just that, then you'll see that the Celestials were not prepared for the attack, they were caught unawares and even so all it did was separate the amalgamation into the individual Celestials, not destroy any of them.

In the same way a 4 yr old kid could run into you and knock you over if youre caught completely unawares, but if you see them coming and youre prepped for impact then that kid aint doing a thing

Yeah.....

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not really. The posts ive made will suffice. Jean did not just bathe within a star, she went to the centre and absorbed all of its energy into her being as a snack and she was still hungry afterwards.

Sols Anvil channels portions of energy from the Sun for destructive blasts. Do you believe that a prepped Jean can be harmed by Sols Anvil with this point in mind?

I'd hope not. That would be illogical.

Originally posted by Cogito
People are getting too hung up on the definition of the Anvil and its power. I mean seriously, it's a comic.

Sentry had the power of "a million exploding suns". According to http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/snovcn.html,


So 1,000,000*10^44, or 1 with 50 zeroes after it (is the equivalent power in suns, with my approximate and made up math)...

By that measure, Bob combing his hair back cause more destruction than the Anvil. But it doesn't matter, because it's all made up by people without physics degrees, and people who don't give a shit about proper units of measurement.

K? Good.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Its not a clear disconnect at all. Its a misunderstanding on your behalf, possibly my fault for not making it clear enough where im going with this.

Characters can survive with both their durability and their ability to create a shield, they are prepped.

Jean has shown durability enough to not only withstand the internal energies of a star, but durability enough to go on to absorb all of that energy into her very being. She absorbed the energy of a whole star and was not anywhere near her capacity and this was a Jean with psychic circuit breakers restricting her access to her full power which speaks even more for her durability. I'm not suggesting as a tactic Jean would be manipulating the blast in anyway, not once did i say or even suggest that. What im saying is to be able to bathe in and then take in the energies of an entire star into her body is a feat of durability in itself. The energies her body would have withstood to do so are exponentially greater than a blast from Sols Anvil which is merely channeling a comparatively tiny fraction of a stars power.

Then we havent even gotten into her ability to create shielding. The womans tapped into the nexus of all psychic energy in the multiverse, the living Big Bang which spawned reality. With that in mind its kind of ridiculous to believe that she couldnt easily create shielding to shrug off a blast containing a fraction of the Suns power.

Furthermore the amalgamated Celestials were caught off guard by the attack, there was no prep for them. They had no knowledge that they were going to be attacked. Given Celestials are supposed to be above Cube Beings i doubt Sols Anvil wouldve scratched this amalgamation if it was prepped and bolstered itself for an attack. Please consider everything within context

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And in response to that i reminded you that a power restricted Jean not only did that but absorbed the entirety of those massive energies into her body which is a feat of durability itself.

If her body can withstand such energies in a weakened state, then Sols Anvil is gonna be no trouble for a prepped White Phoenix Of The Crown Regardless of how impressive you try to make it sound, enduring the internal forces of a star is a herald-level feat. A WEAKENED Beta Ray Bill did this in Stormbreaker.

Once more: herald-level durability alone isn't enough to withstand a blast from the Anvil. Get over it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Galactus has absorbed stars in their entirety in Nova.

Galactus' body can withstand such energies in a devastatingly weakened state in Silver Surfer. Sol's Anvil was a problem for a highly amped Galactus in Fantastic Four.

You're awful at this. Just awful. facepalm

Highly ironic.

Im aware of Galactus' feats with stars, fully aware of it.

What youre doing is taking the effect of Sols Anvil out of context which is a naive thing to do and yet expected

The Celestial amalgamation was caught unaware by the blast, despite this, all the blast did was disrupt their bond, it didnt harm any of them whatsoever. Big Deal.

If they were prepped for the weapon and bolstered their durability or put up shields like the characters in this thread are permitted to do, then no doubt Sols Anvil would not have been a problem.

So ignoring the fact the Celestials were caught unaware and ignoring the fact that it merely separated their temporary amalgamation whilst making an assessment of the capabilities of Sols Anvil is just plain stupid. Do better.

Originally posted by Galan007
Regardless of how impressive you try to make it sound, enduring the internal forces of a star is a herald-level feat. A WEAKENED Beta Ray Bill did this in Stormbreaker.

Once more: herald-level durability isn't enough to withstand a blast from the Anvil. Get over it.

And what youre doing is ignoring the subsequent points whereby i mentioned not only did she do that but she then went on to absorb and contain the entire energies of said star, a feat of durability pertaining to energy within itself. Why you keep going back to one point within posts containing a series of them i do not know.

The Celestial amalgamation was caught unaware and despite that the blast only separated the Celestials into their original forms. Why are you ignoring this?

If the amalgamation was prepped like the characters in your thread are then no doubt the weapon would not have done a damn thing.

The Anvil merely redirects a portion of the suns energy, beings such as Galactus and Phoenix etc eat planets and stars whole so their durability and capacity to withstand energy exceeds the comparatively tiny amount that Sols Anvil produced. Celestials are Galactus level beings. The weapon merely disrupted their temp amalgamation, nothing more. Please do not overrate it.

Can you believe this sh1t?

You have absolutely no evidence that Galactus, or the Celestials by extension, would have easily withstood the Sol's Anvil or that its success in reverting the combined Celestial was wholly dependant on surprise.

All you've done is assumed your conclusion. Which is belied by the simple fact that the individual Celestials -- who are Galactus-level and supposedly have no need to fear the puny Sol's Anvil -- immediately move to destroy Sol's Anvil. This suggests, if not outright confirms, that the Celestials were threatened by it especially since Nathaniel Richards reveals that across all realities the Celestials never let Sol's Anvil shoot more than once. Never. Across all potential realities. Never.

What we do know for sure is this: Sol's Anvil knocked a combined Celestial on its a$$ and forcibly demerged it -- a combined Celestial that was so powerful it one-shotted a highly amped Galactus.

Of course, whose to say that this amped Galactus wasn't just caught off-guard by the merging. Why don't we just blatantly assume that had Galactus raised his defenses/shields he would have no-sold that blast? Do you know why we don't? Because we don't arbitrarily assume sh1t without evidence to support it. Make a better argument. Emphasis on "argument." Because nobody here is interested in your baseless assumptions.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And what youre doing is ignoring the subsequent points whereby i mentioned not only did she do that but she then went on to absorb and contain the entire energies of said star, a feat of durability pertaining to energy within itself. Why you keep going back to one point within posts containing a series of them i do not know. You know why I keep ignoring it? Because in this thread, energy absorption isn't applicable for the characters involved (a fact I made clear a while ago.) Therefore, Jean absorbing the energy from said star is, quite literally, meaningless.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And what youre doing is ignoring the subsequent points whereby i mentioned not only did she do that but she then went on to absorb and contain the entire energies of said star, a feat of durability pertaining to energy within itself. So aside from all the other 'were Galactus/Celestials prepped' and 'is the anvil < the sun' bullshit, I find myself stuck on this:

When did feats of energy absorption become feats of durability? We've seen characters absorb/channel/contain all sorts of bullshit comic book energies in the past, and, from my perspective, that's never served as an indicator that they could no-sell those energies should they be weaponized, especially in a situation where absorption of energies was not an option (see: this thread).

We don't assume that a Watcher couldn't hurt current Rulk, we don't assume Meggan could shrug off the reality-destroying matrix energies that she's channeled in the past... etc, etc.

Why is Phoenix a different situation?

Confirmed : the gun MULTIPLIES the power:






http://www.formspring.me/JonathanHickman/q/369624498107864797

Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Confirmed : the gun MULTIPLIES the power:






http://www.formspring.me/JonathanHickman/q/369624498107864797

Makes sense.