Plutonian vs Hulk

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Gecko4lif
Plutonian vs World breaker hulk

500x500x500 vibranium cage

1. Standard fight
2. Hulk Gets the Destroyer as armor
3. Hulk gets the destroyer and the Twilight sword

Lord Feron
1. Hmm I honestly don't know much about plutonian.

2. Hulk's essence in the destroyer armor would actually be a drawback i think, he would not be able to get stronger nor heal from his wounds.

3. Also isnt the twilight sword insanely massive (or is it change according to the user?) But that would be me trying to swing a bo stick at you while inside a small car. Very ineffective.


yup big post of nothin... Happy Dance

Gecko4lif
The twilight sword can change sizes

Horrificus
Plutonian destroys him in all 3 instances.

He has no limits. He could be compared to a Classic Molecule Man that uses his power to appear to be a highest level physical character.

Rage.Of.Olympus
1. Plutonian.
2. Is the Hulk the soul inhabiting the Destroyer or is there something else going on?
3. Hulk.

Horrificus
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
1. Plutonian.
2. Is the Hulk the soul inhabiting the Destroyer or is there something else going on?
3. Hulk. Have you read all of Irredeemable?
There is nothing the Hulk with Destroyer armor could do. The Plutonian is all-powerful.

"Id"
It took drawing on the energy of the stars, (and the stars burning out) to do any real damage on Plutonium.

Galan007
Plutonian
Plutonian
Hulk, for now- I'm not really sure what the TS is capable of (feat-wise.)

Galan007
Originally posted by "Id"
It took drawing on the energy of the stars, (and the stars burning out) to do any real damage on Plutonium. thumb up That entire star system died as a result.

Additionally, Tony is getting a LOT better with his molecular manipulation:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11151568_i1.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11151569_i2.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11151570_i3.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11151571_i4.jpg


In unrelated news: I thought this was an impressive speed feat:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11151572_i5.jpg

Tony flies between skyscrapers at such speed that they bend backward significantly. Can't recall too many speedsters accomplishing that..?

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Horrificus
Have you read all of Irredeemable?
There is nothing the Hulk with Destroyer armor could do. The Plutonian is all-powerful.

His not all powerful, he just got his ass handed to him.

While I could make a case for the Destroyer, it depends on how it's operating with the Hulk.

Originally posted by "Id"
It took drawing on the energy of the stars, (and the stars burning out) to do any real damage on Plutonium.

I'd like to clarify that by real damage, he means getting beaten into a bloody pulp.

Tony should beat the shit out of the regular Hulk at this point though. A good example of the ability to manipulate matter being written from a more realistic standpoint.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Galan007
thumb up That entire star system died as a result.

Additionally, Tony is getting a LOT better with his molecular manipulation:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11151568_i1.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11151569_i2.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11151570_i3.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11151571_i4.jpg


In unrelated news: I thought this was an impressive speed feat:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11151572_i5.jpg

Tony flies between skyscrapers at such speed that they bend backward significantly. Can't recall too many speedsters accomplishing that..?

What issues are these scans from? I thought I was up to date with Irredeemable.

Galan007
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'd like to clarify that by real damage, he means getting beaten into a bloody pulp. While this is true, it's also true that she had to absorb the energy of entire star(s) to do so--and considering said energies are more than sufficient to fully sate Galactus himself, it's pretty impressive that she had to absorb THAT much power just to beat Tony.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
What issues are these scans from? I thought I was up to date with Irredeemable. Irredeemable #34.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Galan007
While this is true, it's also true that she had to burn out entire star(s) to do so--and considering the energies of a star are more than sufficient to fully sate Galactus himself, it's pretty impressive that she had to absorb THAT much power just to beat Tony.

Her drawing on the energy of a Star was already noted, the fact that he was a bloody pulp who was then raped was not. From experience, "any real damage" might be interpreted as a bloody lip, which is why I mentioned it.

I'd also like to point out that like Superman, Galactus' power source isn't necessary reflective of his power level so it's basically a pointless comparison. For example, Galactus has shown output far above that of Star(s) by feeding on a planet.

Originally posted by Galan007
Irredeemable #34.

Thank you, somehow I missed that issue.

Galan007
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Her drawing on the energy of a Star was already noted, the fact that he was a bloody pulp who was then raped was not. From experience, "any real damage" might be interpreted as a bloody lip, which is why I mentioned it. Cool. I just wanted to reiterate it's impressiveness.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'd also like to point out that like Superman, Galactus' power source isn't necessary reflective of his power level so it's basically a pointless comparison. For example, Galactus has shown output far above that of Star(s) by feeding on a planet. To be clear: I wasn't saying that it requires Galactus-level power to beat Tony. I was just trying to explain the vast energies a star contains in 'comic book lingo'... ie. Galactus' hunger (which, on a few occasions, has not been calmed after eating a planet), was fully sated+ after he devoured a star... ie. ie. If a planet=a ham sandwich to Galactus, a star=a 5 course meal+dessert.

Now that I've totally confused you: it, again, took THAT much power just for her to beat Tony. I'd also like to remind you that he wasn't trying to defend himself whatsoever during that battle, because he did not wish to harm her:
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/11151605_irr_35_023.jpg

If he were actually fighting back, the energy of a star may not have been enough to overcome him.

"Id"
The Flash who?

Plutonian outraces a radio signal traviling in pico seconds.
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3838/irr17lerajecps020.jpg
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8172/irr17lerajecps021.jpg

Existere
Originally posted by "Id"
The Flash who?

Plutonian outraces a radio signal traviling in pico seconds.
http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/3838/irr17lerajecps020.jpg
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8172/irr17lerajecps021.jpg Isn't that just a FTL feat? The signal itself was a picosecond in length, but was still traveling at the speed of all other radio signals if I'm reading that right...

It's impressive that Plutonian reacted to an event that occurred within the breadth of a picosecond, but his travel speed wasn't approaching Flash level in that particular feat... I think.

Gecko4lif
Plutonian getting litterally raped by modeus is kinda funny

Horrificus
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His not all powerful, he just got his ass handed to him.

While I could make a case for the Destroyer, it depends on how it's operating with the Hulk.



I'd like to clarify that by real damage, he means getting beaten into a bloody pulp.

Tony should beat the shit out of the regular Hulk at this point though. A good example of the ability to manipulate matter being written from a more realistic standpoint. He allowed his ass to be handed to him. Modeus even states that Tony could kill him at any time if he wanted to.

With his new-found abilities, intangibility, time travel, quantum entanglement mastery, non-physical manipulation of matter and telepathy, he pretty much has it all. He is just learning to use it. And, he continues to evolve.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Galan007
Cool. I just wanted to reiterate it's impressiveness.

Fair enough I guess.

Originally posted by Galan007
To be clear: I wasn't saying that it requires Galactus-level power to beat Tony. I was just trying to explain the vast energies a star contains in 'comic book lingo'... ie. Galactus' hunger (which, on a few occasions, has not been calmed after eating a planet), was fully sated+ after he devoured a star... ie. ie. If a planet=a ham sandwich to Galactus, a star=a 5 course meal+dessert.

Again, you're trying to make it seem more impressive by referencing Galactus. Which really makes no sense ultimately based on what we've seen, might as well mention Superman only being powered by Solar Rays yet being able to do what he does. Frankly, I think you'd be better off mentioning the Sol Anvil as Hickman seems to hold Star level power in high esteem, but at the same time, things can scale up and down dramatically depending on the writer/location/story etc.

Don't get me wrong, it's still very impressive, most Heralds and Trans rarely operate on that scale. Then again, this was happening away from Earth.

Originally posted by Galan007
Now that I've totally confused you: it, again, took THAT much power just for her to beat Tony. I'd also like to remind you that he wasn't trying to defend himself whatsoever during that battle, because he did not wish to harm her:
http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/11151605_irr_35_023.jpg

If he were actually fighting back, the energy of a star may not have been enough to overcome him.

That's a good point, and honestly, it probably wouldn't be enough. The body he's inhabiting from what I remember has low level enhanced abilities. One super speed punch or a blast of heat vision from a distance should end Modeus easily.

That being said, it's pretty clear that he has limitations, he can be beaten or stopped, Star level energy being able to bypass his durability dramatically is one example, lack of molecular motion (Or whatever the force that he was exposed to by his "parents" that Quibit/Max Damage ultimately saved him from) is another.

I'll give Waid credit though, he approached molecular manipulating based abilities from a more scientific point of view, not unlike Solar. I always wondered what someone like him or Ellis would do with the Odin Force, Power Cosmic etc.

JakeTheBank
Don't know how he'll ultimately slag the Destroyer Armor for good.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Originally posted by Horrificus
He allowed his ass to be handed to him. Modeus even states that Tony could kill him at any time if he wanted to.

Unless he weakened his durability (Which I guess while theoretically possible makes little sense), then my point stands. That's not in dispute, he could kill her easily unless she can channel that energy defensively.

Originally posted by Horrificus
With his new-found abilities, intangibility, time travel, quantum entanglement mastery, non-physical manipulation of matter and telepathy, he pretty much has it all.

He has the ability to manipulate matter and the fundamental forces to a certain extent but I don't think he'd necessarily beat Surfer yet, calling him all powerful is a leap. Especially since it's clear he has limitations, at least for now.

Originally posted by Horrificus
He is just learning to use it. And, he continues to evolve.

My personal opinion is that he'll ultimately evolve into a being like his parents, who I'd guess are Watcher level/like characters.

Galan007
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Again, you're trying to make it seem more impressive by referencing Galactus. I'm not trying to make it seem any more impressive than it is. Modeus absorbed ALL the energies of an entire star, just to damage a Plutonian that wasn't even fighting back. Sorry, but that IS hugely impressive.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
That being said, it's pretty clear that he has limitations, he can be beaten or stopped, Star level energy being able to bypass his durability dramatically is one example Again, he didn't defend himself at all--he wasn't even trying to fight back. If he were fighting back, I'm fairly confident in saying that the star-level energy Modeus possessed would not have been enough to defeat him (she flat-out stated as much.)

At any rate, I don't see how Hulk (Destroyer animated or not) could even come close to laying a finger/blast on Tony, tbh..?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I always wondered what someone like him or Ellis would do with the Odin Force, Power Cosmic etc. Imo, he'd write them properly.

janus77
"Star-level energy" isn't that impressive, when you're talking about Hulk.

The character's established to be fuelled by a "universe" of energy.

Anyway, Plutonian sounds like a Surfer rip-off, might be interesting to read some irredeemables.

Galan007
Originally posted by janus77
"Star-level energy" isn't that impressive Yes. It is... If you recall, LT's "ultimate punishment" was star-level energy. ermm13

Originally posted by janus77
Anyway, Plutonian sounds like a Surfer rip-off, might be interesting to read some irredeemables. Plutonian is as far from a "Surfer ripoff" that a character can be. Imo, he is quite original.

janus77
Originally posted by Galan007
Yes. It is... If you recall, LT's "ultimate punishment" was star-level energy. ermm13
Yeah, well now you know who The One Above All is = HULK!

Originally posted by Galan007
Plutonian is as far from a "Surfer ripoff" that a character can be. Imo, he is quite original.
I meant in the powers he has, and the way they seem to work.
Having read the wiki, he comes across as a slightly more powerful and coherent Dr. Manhattan.

There's nothing there that Surfer doesn't do, regularly.

Galan007
Originally posted by janus77
There's nothing there that Surfer doesn't do, regularly. After you read Irredeemable, you'll understand what I mean. Plutonian himself, the way his powerset works, and the way he uses said powers, is VASTLY different from Surfer.

...But if you're suggesting that he is a "Surfer ripoff" simply because he possesses the ability to manipulate molecules, then that is.... Retarded. none

"Id"
Plutonian is more of a deconstruction of the Superman/Superhero analogue. Only it turns out his powers are not the atypical Superman. They are psi based. In that sense he reminds me of the Sentry.

If he was a ripoff. Its closer to "the Super-Man" written by Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster.

leonidas
Originally posted by Existere
Isn't that just a FTL feat? The signal itself was a picosecond in length, but was still traveling at the speed of all other radio signals if I'm reading that right...

It's impressive that Plutonian reacted to an event that occurred within the breadth of a picosecond, but his travel speed wasn't approaching Flash level in that particular feat... I think.

thumb up

great reaction feat though.

"Id"
Ok. So the transmission only lasted 1 picosecond, before Plutonian notices, and tracks it down. That's still fairly insane reaction time.

"Id"
His strength, and durability are off the scale.

Here is a nice durability feat. He is stuck in a prison that holds only the most dangerously powerful criminals. One prisoner is capable of splitting a planet in two. They are able to contain Plutonian, since the prison generates a gravity pull at half the strength of a Black Hole, bearing down the weight of an entire star system.

Plutonian was able to sustain the gravity well, while the others where turned into slush.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2549/irredeemable21018.jpg
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2862/irredeemable21019.jpg
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6632/irredeemable21020.jpg
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/921/irredeemable21024.jpg
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/5172/rredeemable21023.jpg

Since the gravity well, failed to restrain him. The Vespa strap him with material cloned from his own skinned, which adopts the same in invulnerable properties as himself. Only to be confined within his own prison, which holds a super dimensional density of half a white dwarf star.

The scary part, the custom prison + custom restraints may hold him down.
http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/6615/irr22004.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/408/irr22007.jpg
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/1576/irr22012.jpg
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2986/rr22006.jpg

Galan007
Originally posted by "Id"
Ok. So the transmission only lasted 1 picosecond, before Plutonian notices, and tracks it down. That's still fairly insane reaction time. It still shows us that Tony can perceive events on a picosecond-by-picosecond basis. That alone puts his perception/reaction speed well above someone like Majestic (who can "only" operate by the nanosecond, on panel)--which says a LOT. Concerning the 'minuteness' of a picosecond, I thought this quote was fitting: "A picosecond is to one second as one second is to 31,700 years." Friggin' insane.

That scene also demonstrates Plutonian's ability to accelerate to FTL speeds nigh-instantly, and while still in earth's orbit.

All in all, it is a massively impressive speed feat. thumb up

Philosophía
Originally posted by Galan007
\ Plutonian is as far from a "Surfer ripoff" that a character can be. Imo, he is quite original. He's essentially a "what if Superman was...?" with an evil twist that deconstructs most of the elements of the Superman mythos - which, given that it's Mark Waid, a massive Superman fan, shouldn't be surprising. I wouldn't call it original, but very good in its execution - a Sentry done right, if you will (though even comparing it to Sentry's downfall is an insult). It has been dragging on for a while though, and I'm sort of glad it's ending in a few issues, without it going on until the concept is completly drained.

As far as his powerlevel goes - the actual feats he displayed would basically mean that he'd handle the likes of Surfer, Thor and whomever like toddlers. That is undisputable, even before going into the larger extent of powers he recently developed - but just based on strength, speed, durability etc.

Galan007

Existere

Galan007
I've been keeping up with it. It's decent, but it I haven't enjoyed it nearly as much as Irredeemable.

guy222
Hulk

Dammit laughing out loud

Horrificus
Originally posted by janus77
"Star-level energy" isn't that impressive, when you're talking about Hulk.

The character's established to be fuelled by a "universe" of energy.

Anyway, Plutonian sounds like a Surfer rip-off, might be interesting to read some irredeemables. "Sounds like a Surfer rip-off."

That sounds like you didn't read the series.

A star for every punch isn't that impressive?

Well, reading Irredeemable is definitely different from reading a character who's power levels increase every time a writer is too stupid to write a quality solution to a fight scene.

Horrificus
Originally posted by Existere
laughing out loud Absolutely. thumb up Just making sure I understand what the actual feat there is. I kept up with Irredeemable for like the first three books or something, and enjoyed it well enough, but wasn't engaged enough in the 'evil superman' idea to keep going. I think I'd like to finish it sometime though, maybe just collect the TPB's once it's finished. I really appreciated that the surrounding cast of characters managed to hold interest in their own right, which allowed Plutonian to have some depth beyond being just another Superman clone.

Did anybody read Incorruptible? Incorruptible is also excellent. Not as big on the kind of action I like reading, but it promises to deliver in the future. Lot's of good stuff getting setup.

Galan007
Originally posted by Horrificus
Incorruptible is also excellent. Not as big on the kind of action I like reading, but it promises to deliver in the future. Lot's of good stuff getting setup. Irredeemable only has 2 issues left. Incorruptible only has 3. sad

Horrificus
Originally posted by Galan007
Irredeemable only has 2 issues left. Incorruptible only has 3. sad Weren't they forecasting some "mind-blowing" final showdown?

Oh well.

"Id"
Originally posted by Existere

Did anybody read Incorruptible?

I do.

My 2cents: This book is like different face of the same coin. Outside of the obvious (Villain Turning Hero). It relies more on humor, as oppose to Irredeemable's shock value.

Horrificus
Originally posted by "Id"
I do.

My 2cents: This book is like different face of the same coin. Outside of the obvious (Villain Turning Hero). It relies more on humor, as oppose to Irredeemable's shock value. I was going to place a Max Damage vs "somebody" thread. But, not many people know who he is and they haven't really shown the upper levels of what he can do or what damage he can take.

carver9
Originally posted by Horrificus
"Sounds like a Surfer rip-off."

That sounds like you didn't read the series.

A star for every punch isn't that impressive?

Well, reading Irredeemable is definitely different from reading a character who's power levels increase every time a writer is too stupid to write a quality solution to a fight scene.

You see...that's the problem. People keep putting a cap on Hulks power level when all in all, he doesn't have one. The quality solution is, Hulk power increases by the second...that's why he is able to pull all of the fts he pull. When you have a character like Classic Beyonder shocked at your power level, that alone speak volumes.

TheHulk
Originally posted by carver9
You see...that's the problem. People keep putting a cap on Hulks power level when all in all, he doesn't have one. The quality solution is, Hulk power increases by the second...that's why he is able to pull all of the fts he pull. When you have a character like Classic Beyonder shocked at your power level, that alone speak volumes. Hulks Power Level Is At 2,400,000,000!!!!!

carver9
Originally posted by TheHulk
Hulks Power Level Is At 2,400,000,000!!!!!

That's still below a Super Saiyan. big grin

Newjak
Correct me if I'm wrong but was Twilight forged from a Galaxy?

Prep-Man
Plutonian.

KingD19
Hulk's power increases by the second. Does that matter when a second is all Plutonian needs?

Because if he really goes all out, 1 second is all he'll need. Or maybe a picosecond.

Horrificus
This is something I put together for another thread-

Here is a quick list of Plutonian's Powers and Abilities:

- Matter Manipulation
- Weaponized use of Quantum Entanglement
- Time Travel
- Psychic Abilities
- Ability to Nullify Fundamental Forces of Nature
- Seeing through Objects- Subconsciously, can mentally alter the atomic structure of objects, allowing him to see by viewing parts of the electromagnetic spectrum that only he can perceive.
- Durability- Subconsciously, mentally controls the density of his own skin and muscle.
- Damage- Subconsciously, he reduces the mass of anything or anyone he is striking, for maximum damage. Does the same to objects he is lifting, so enormous objects do not collapse under their own weight.
- Intangibility- Can alter his own density to allow mass to pass through him.


Most of the following quotations concern actions that the Plutonian does Subconsciously.-

- Qubit- "Operates outside the realm of known physics."
- Qubit- "Can redefine reality."
- Qubit- "able to alter quantum mechanics with his brain."
- Modeus- "Changing probability"
- Modeus- "Reversing entropy"
- Modeus- "seeing through time"
- Modeus- Eye Beams "Transfer Kinetic Energy to the air molecules, turning it into superheated gas"
- Modeus- Arctic Breath "can withdraw molecular motion from the air"
- Modeus- Flight "flies by shifting his mass through the atmosphere, telekinetically squeezing through it like soap through a fist"

And, as they have stated in a bunch of different ways, this is just the beginning of Tony's "awakening", learning about the use of his powers.

Concerning Plutonian's powers, Modeus states that all of this is - "just if he moves from Kindergarten to Grade School."

Id is creating an excellent respect thread where you can see examples of the Plutonian's feats and abilities.

I'm sure there might be other statements, feats and narratives describing the powers of the Plutonian. I thought this might be a good start.

And, one final ability that I neglected to list before:
Plutonian is now forcing his own evolution.

carver9
Hulk wins.

KingD19
Really Carver? Really? erm

Prep-Man
Originally posted by KingD19
Really Carver? Really? erm

I'm assuming....Really.

Placidity
Hulk loses.

I'm going to repeat this every time Carver says "Hulk Wins". Because apparently it is quite a meaningful thing to post.

TheGodKiller
*Necro*
1.Plutonian wins.
2.Probably Hulk.
3.Definitely Hulk.

operator616
just to clarify on the Horrificus post ^ so people might not be fooled

he left out important context (I already posted those in the other thread)

his powers were explained in the beginning of Irredeemable #25:

http://i.imgur.com/AnQWBHj.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HbSZjkq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NcsKtQa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0OuvPiw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yiWhGr4.jpg

he didn't do it, but he has the potential to do it.

janus77
Plutonian wins. In all the scenarios.

Hulk might have a chance if Plutonian's just letting Hulk punch him, but that was a one-off situation and even if Hulk has the power to crush him (which for WBH should be trivial), he's never going to be able to come close enough or to tag Plutonian.

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