Adult Franklin Richards vs Thanos with a Cosmic Containment Unit...

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TheLordofMurder
Adult Franklin Richards vs Thanos with a Cosmic Containment Unit...

Battle to the Death or KO...no BFR...who wins?

the ninjak
What did Thanos do with a CCU?

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by the ninjak
What did Thanos do with a CCU?

Beat Chronos...

Mistress-Death
Thanos stomps, he became Etetenity with cube

Bouboumaster
Hum...

Alone, a CCU is far to be enough to beat Franklin on his own.
But in that case, Thanos is the user...

I'll say Franklin 6 or 7/10

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by Mistress-Death
Thanos stomps, he became Etetenity with cube

While that did happen, I didnt mention it in my above post because of how incredibly bad Marvel jobs Eternity...

Eternity has been choked out by the Ancient One and defeated by Nightmare (if memory serves me correctly) for starters...Eternity is one of the worse jobbers in the Marvel Universe when you consider what he's supposed to be and how he actually performs on average.

In addition, Eternity never actually confronted Thanos with a CCU when Thanos took his place (unlike during the IG saga when Eternity directly attacked Thanos)...


Anyway, I think using that feat "against" Eternity is dubious at best...

Defeating Chronos is a more impressive, concrete, feat IMHO...

zopzop
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
While that did happen, I didnt mention it in my above post because of how incredibly bad Marvel jobs Eternity...

Eternity has been choked out by the Ancient One and defeated by Nightmare (if memory serves me correctly) for starters...Eternity is one of the worse jobbers in the Marvel Universe when you consider what he's supposed to be and how he actually performs on average.

In addition, Eternity never actually confronted Thanos with a CCU when Thanos took his place (unlike during the IG saga when Eternity directly attacked Thanos)...


Anyway, I think using that feat "against" Eternity is dubious at best...

Defeating Chronos is a more impressive, concrete, feat IMHO...

I was one of the biggest doubters of the power of CCUs till Mr. Master pointed out what an (alt?) reality Doom did with one in an X-men novel (which is canon because it was referenced in the handbooks), pancaking realities on top of realities and if he wasn't stopped omniversal level damage.

Thanos with one of those things would be brutal so I'm giving it to him.

And Kronos is sort of over rated. He exhausted himself dealing with Dumb Drax and Moondragon once. As much of a jobber as Eternity is, he hasn't stooped that low..............yet.

OneDumbG0
^ If you take those novels seriously, you can just simply conclude that Doom w/CCU > Thanos w/CCU based on their relative feats.

I do agree that Kronos hasn't done sh1t.

Galan007
If you take the novels seriously then feat-wise Doom /w/ CCU > Thanos /w/ IG.

Horrificus
CCU's were never meant to be something that could reach out to multiversal levels, let alone, omniversal.

Franklin wins.

TheGodKiller
Franklin Richards takes this .

JakeTheBank
Those X-Men/Cosmic Cube novels...weren't they part of a trilogy with the first book being about Doom, the next being Magneto, and the third one being Red Skull?

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Those X-Men/Cosmic Cube novels...weren't they part of a trilogy with the first book being about Doom, the next being Magneto, and the third one being Red Skull?

Yup . And the cube was unable to completely fulfill its wielders' wishes , which is why it sought out alternate realities which were consistent with the desires of its wielders .
As far as the omniversal collapse thingy goes , IIRC , then that was a domino effect of the cube piling up the 3 universes(Doom's,Magneto's and Red Skull's) on top of each other . Nothing the cube did directly through its own power .

JakeTheBank
I remember checking out those books at my school library years ago and I did an essay on them concerning science fiction/fantasy.

zopzop
Originally posted by Galan007
If you take the novels seriously then feat-wise Doom /w/ CCU > Thanos /w/ IG.
I actually thought the novels weren't canon at first but then Mr. M produced the official Marvel Handbook entry for the Cosmic Cube and lo and behold it was mentioned there.
Originally posted by Horrificus
CCU's were never meant to be something that could reach out to multiversal levels, let alone, omniversal.

Franklin wins.
But they've done it before. See the Infinity War story arc. Five CCUs were merging two universes, concealing the Magus' presence from the other great powers, shutting down the Ultimate Nullifier, and comatosing Eternity AND Infinity.

Horrificus
Originally posted by zopzop
And Kronos is sort of over rated.
I thought Kronos was just a "Zuras-level" being that is expanding an insubstantial.

He is an Eternal.

zopzop
Originally posted by Horrificus
I thought Kronos was just a "Zuras-level" being that is expanding an insubstantial.

He is an Eternal.

The only time I remember him engaging in a fight (pre IG) was against Dumb Drax and Moondragon and he exhausted himself during that fiasco. He's weaksauce.

Galan007
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Those X-Men/Cosmic Cube novels...weren't they part of a trilogy with the first book being about Doom, the next being Magneto, and the third one being Red Skull? Yeah, the collective novels are called 'The Chaos Engine Trilogy'. I have them downloaded, just never got around to reading them.

Originally posted by zopzop
I actually thought the novels weren't canon at first but then Mr. M produced the official Marvel Handbook entry for the Cosmic Cube and lo and behold it was mentioned there. I'm not saying the novels aren't canon, I'm just saying that the novels put the CCU's above nearly any other power in Marvel, from a feat standpoint.

zopzop
Originally posted by Galan007
I'm not saying the novels aren't canon, I'm just saying that the novels put the CCU's above nearly any other power in Marvel, from a feat standpoint.

That's why I can't stand the whole concept of Cosmic Cubes/CCUs. For example, five of those things in Magus' hands -

Feat wise : were merging two universes, concealing his presence from the other great powers and abstracts (this he said, was were most of the CCUs power was dedicated to), and stopping the Ultimate Nullifier from functioning.

"Fight" wise : obliterated Galactus, his ship and everyone in it and comatosed and bound Eternity AND Infinity.

Yet fully evolved Cube Beings claim the Celestials are "many orders of magnitude of power" above them. confused

Galan007
Originally posted by zopzop
That's why I can't stand the whole concept of Cosmic Cubes/CCUs. For example, five of those things in Magus' hands -

Feat wise : were merging two universes, concealing his presence from the other great powers and abstracts (this he said, was were most of the CCUs power was dedicated to), and stopping the Ultimate Nullifier from functioning.

"Fight" wise : obliterated Galactus, his ship and everyone in it and comatosed and bound Eternity AND Infinity.

Yet fully evolved Cube Beings claim the Celestials are "many orders of magnitude of power" above them. confused Imo, the novelization's version of a CCU doesn't really fit with the CCU's established in Marvel comic books--but since happenings from the novel were mentioned in a few official Marvel bios, there's really no arguing it's canonicity. /shrug

I agree, though. Makes no sense.

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by zopzop
Yet fully evolved Cube Beings claim the Celestials are "many orders of magnitude of power" above them. confused

Character power levels/portrayals fluxuate over time...

The Pheonix Force, at one point in time, was unquestionably beyond Odin, but nowadays, Marvel has flatly stated that Odin is beyond Pheonix...

The point is that that older statement from that issue of the Fantasic Four is significantly older than the events in the Infinity War; based on the more recent portrayals and feats, its pretty clear to me that Kubiks statement no longer applies to current continuity...

CCU's seem to be beyond Galactus and Celestials based on the events in the Infinity War; I certainty dont believe 5 Celestials could simutaneously do all the things those 5 CCU's were doing...

I mean think about it...the 5 CCU's were able to simutaneously: hide the Magus from the great powers of the universe, merge 2 universes, shut down the UN, KO Eternity and Infinity, AND oneshot Galactus...

Those events dont jive at all with Kubiks old statement; those events superceed them because they are more modern...

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Character power levels/portrayals fluxuate over time...

The Pheonix Force, at one point in time, was unquestionably beyond Odin, but nowadays, Marvel has flatly stated that Odin is beyond Pheonix...

The point is that that older statement from that issue of the Fantasic Four is significantly older than the events in the Infinity War; based on the more recent portrayals and feats, its pretty clear to me that Kubiks statement no longer applies to current continuity...

CCU's seem to be beyond Galactus and Celestials based on the events in the Infinity War; I certainty dont believe 5 Celestials could simutaneously do all the things those 5 CCU's were doing...

I mean think about it...the 5 CCU's were able to simutaneously: hide the Magus from the great powers of the universe, merge 2 universes, shut down the UN, KO Eternity and Infinity, AND oneshot Galactus...

Those events dont jive at all with Kubiks old statement; those events superceed them because they are more modern...

According to Mephisto's AND Thanos'(a guy whose wielded the IG ) claims , the CCUs rival/equal the infinity gems in power . Yet in that very arc , both the Goddess and Surfer claim that even the cosmic egg's power is nothing compared to a full IG .
Also , CCU's have had pretty inconsistent showings . In one story , Sentry was able to briefly contain an unstable CCU for a brief period of time . And that story is even more modern than the Infinity War .

zopzop
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
According to Mephisto's AND Thanos'(a guy whose wielded the IG ) claims , the CCUs rival/equal the infinity gems in power . Yet in that very arc , both the Goddess and Surfer claim that even the cosmic egg's power is nothing compared to a full IG .
Don't forget it was also all but proven on panel : the incomplete Infinity Gauntlet > Magus' 5 CCUs.

Once he got his hands on the incomplete Infinity Gauntlet, he instantly merged the two universes while he stated it would have taken him hours more using the 5 CCUs. What's worse, he didn't even bother to get the stolen CCUs back. He wanted to punish the thief but he said that could wait. That's how much more powerful the incomplete IG was over 5 CCUs.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by zopzop
Don't forget it was also all but proven on panel : the incomplete Infinity Gauntlet > Magus' 5 CCUs.

Once he got his hands on the incomplete Infinity Gauntlet, he instantly merged the two universes while he stated it would have taken him hours more using the 5 CCUs. What's worse, he didn't even bother to get the stolen CCUs back. He wanted to punish the thief but he said that could wait. That's how much more powerful the incomplete IG was over 5 CCUs.
Yeah , I agree to all of that . Still just pointing out the VAST inconsistencies between the CCUs' feats and implied power .

TheLordofMurder
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
According to Mephisto's AND Thanos'(a guy whose wielded the IG ) claims , the CCUs rival/equal the infinity gems in power . Yet in that very arc , both the Goddess and Surfer claim that even the cosmic egg's power is nothing compared to a full IG .
Also , CCU's have had pretty inconsistent showings . In one story , Sentry was able to briefly contain an unstable CCU for a brief period of time . And that story is even more modern than the Infinity War .

Ah...but a CCU's ability to perform is directly proportional to the willpower of its user; I'd argue that the Magus with 5 CCU's was beyond the Goddess with 30.

In addition, who do you believe to be the more reliable sources...Thanos and Mephisto or The Goddess and Surfer? I am taking Thanos and Mephisto's word over The Goddess and Surfers word all day long. Thanos and Mephisto are unquestionably more intelligent and knowledgably than the other two...

As pertains inconsistencies, thats the nature of comics; continuity means nothing next to telling a compelling story...the Sentry was supposed to be the next "big thing" so you knew they were gonna give him some eye raising feats to demostrate how bad azz he was supposed to be.

TheLordofMurder
Ane besides, I'm not arguing wether or not CCU's are beneath the IG; they obviously are...

I am arguing a CCU's power compared to the Celestials; modern writings seem to place them above the Celestials...

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Ah...but a CCU's ability to perform is directly proportional to the willpower of its user; I'd argue that the Magus with 5 CCU's was beyond the Goddess with 30.

In addition, who do you believe to be the more reliable sources...Thanos and Mephisto or The Goddess and Surfer? I am taking Thanos and Mephisto's word over The Goddess and Surfers word all day long. Thanos and Mephisto are unquestionably more intelligent and knowledgably than the other two...

As pertains inconsistencies, thats the nature of comics; continuity means nothing next to telling a compelling story...the Sentry was supposed to be the next "big thing" so you knew they were gonna give him some eye raising feats to demostrate how bad azz he was supposed to be.

Well ,yes , the key word here "supposed to be" . Current adult Franklin Richards would turtle slap the shit out of any version of Sentry .
So , do we agree that Thanos loses this thread ?

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