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Ok so here is the thread. We are doing a battlezone concerning the strength gap between WBH and FP Kuurth. I will be representing WBHulk and asserting that their is a significant strength gap based on on panel feats and occurrences. Newjak on the otherhand will be asserting that there is none. Judges to be announced.

Haha you know naj if you're going to state my point at least do it right.

I'm here to state basically your logic sucks, and that odds are the strength gap isn't nearly what you want it to be. I never said there wasn't some strength gap.

Originally posted by Newjak
What strength gap?

Juggernaut has always matched Hulk in strength. Classic was able to match WWH alone.

8th Day crushed Thor physically something no Hulk has been able to do ever.

"what strength gap" (implies that there is none) This was written in response to my mentioning of the strength gap between them. These are your words not mine. But anyways if you have changed your position its fine. What will you be arguing exactly?

Originally posted by Naija boy
"what strength gap" written in response to my mentioning of the strength gap between them. These are your words not mine. But anyways if you have changed your position its fine. What will you be arguing exactly? I never changed my stance and I think my previous post says it all

Ok so your arguing that the strength gap isnt significant/is minor?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Ok so your arguing that the strength gap isnt significant/is minor? Isn't Significant sounds good to me.

lol

this should be easy to judge....

lol^Ok i think id like to pretty much go standard format 8-10 posts. Is that agreeable?

Originally posted by leonidas
lol

this should be easy to judge....











lol What does that face mean leo

Originally posted by Newjak
lol What does that face mean leo

Id like to do 8-10 posts if that is agreeable. Also when is a good start time for you?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Id like to do 8-10 posts if that is agreeable. Also when is a good start time for you? 8-10 posts is fine for me.

This weekend I'm heading home to see my family so this week might not be the best for me.

What will be the time limit for the match, a couple days, a week? What do you think is fair?

Have a mod edit this into the battlezone discussion thread between you two. Start a new thread when you have all the details ironed out so it's just a straight debate. Ask a mod to edit this into the battlezone discussion thread.

Ok will do Quan. Oh and Newjak id say that a week to a week and a half is pretty fair. Perhaps a wee bit longer if it is needed to complete the Post count of 10 maximum. Now we should go to try and find judges.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Ok will do Quan. Oh and Newjak id say that a week to a week and a half is pretty fair. Perhaps a wee bit longer if it is needed to complete the Post count of 10 maximum. Now we should go to try and find judges. Alright sounds good.

Are there any people you absolutely do not want as judges? You can PM any names if you don't want them known.

Originally posted by Newjak
lol What does that face mean leo

means this is a crazy bz topic.

Originally posted by leonidas
means this is a crazy bz topic. I know it should be fun maybe

I think Leo would be a good judge for this discussion.

This should be interesting.

Originally posted by carver9
I think Leo would be a good judge for this discussion. Yea I Think Leo Can Judge This Too And Maybe OneDumbG0

If you guys are looking for judges, feel free to PM me or just let me know. I certainly know my way around battlezones and judging, and I don't care strongly for either character, so, you know, impartial, etc.

Either way, I think you guys should make it clear and concrete what you mean when you say 'the strength gap is/isn't significant'. Specifically what would be 'significant'. Just as some guidelines, ie, is the strength gap between Superman and Wonder Woman significant? Is the strength gap between Namor and Hercules significant? Or just define it in terms of numbers/feats/terms we all get that are clear and not open to personal interpretation.

^

Originally posted by Existere
Either way, I think you guys should make it clear and concrete what you mean when you say 'the strength gap is/isn't significant'. Specifically what would be 'significant'. Just as some guidelines, ie, is the strength gap between Superman and Wonder Woman significant? Is the strength gap between Namor and Hercules significant? Or just define it in terms of numbers/feats/terms we all get that are clear and not open to personal interpretation. when this question is defined by the participants the thread is pretty much done as it's hindering on the semantics in the other thread cause lord knows there isn't a true competition here.....

Originally posted by Existere
If you guys are looking for judges, feel free to PM me or just let me know. I certainly know my way around battlezones and judging, and I don't care strongly for either character, so, you know, impartial, etc.

Either way, I think you guys should make it clear and concrete what you mean when you say 'the strength gap is/isn't significant'. Specifically what would be 'significant'. Just as some guidelines, ie, is the strength gap between Superman and Wonder Woman significant? Is the strength gap between Namor and Hercules significant? Or just define it in terms of numbers/feats/terms we all get that are clear and not open to personal interpretation. Pretty much the only thing I think I need to prove is that KP Kuurth can hang with WBH not be overwhlemed by WBH's strength and power, and that WBH is not drastically more powerful then the other herald level beings including strength. If I can prove that then I think that would be a win for me.

^Actually No. Powerful is such an ambiguous term because it can take into account so many things and is quite frankly very subjective given different powersets. This thread is not about a battle between Full powered Kuurth and WBH in as other abilities and attributes might come into play in that case. Its about the strength gap between them. I will be contending that the strength gap is significant (to give it a number i will argue for instance that WBH is no less than 10x as strong as FP Kuurth based on feats). If you think that proving that he is not drasticallystronger than herald level beings (again not powerful which is relative and ambiguous) will show that the strength gap between he and FP Kuurth isnt significant then thats fine. Just remember this is a comparison of physical strength.

Originally posted by Naija boy
^Actually No. Powerful is such an ambiguous term because it can take into account so many things and is quite frankly very subjective given different powersets. This thread is not about a battle between Full powered Kuurth and WBH in as other abilities and attributes might come into play in that case. Its about the strength gap between them. I will be contending that the strength gap is significant (to give it a number i will argue for instance that WBH is no less than 10x as strong as FP Kuurth based on feats). If you think that proving that he is not drasticallystronger than herald level beings (again not powerful which is relative and ambiguous) will show that the strength gap between he and FP Kuurth isnt significant then thats fine. Just remember this is a comparison of physical strength. Let me ask you something do you feel that Hulk's strength advantage is such that he can walk over FP Kuurth? If so why would it not be pertinent to the discussion that if WBH can not over power or out destroy FP Kuurth? To me if he can't then that would prove that this great strength advantage is not on the level you wish it to be.

Also if that is the case even though Juggernaut's pushing power comes from his unstoppability it will also be used to help showcase his strength because it is directly linked to his ability to move weight around.

I don't want you saying you can't use that because Juggernaut's unstoppability enchantment was at play.

You are equivocating terms. I believe the strength advantage between Hulk and full power Kuurth is large and so overpowering Full power Kuurth in a straight test of strength is something well within WBH ability to do. On the other hand, destroying Fullpower Kuurth brings his durability into it which is a distinct attribute not at all related to this debate.

Juggernauts unstoppability enchantment simply means that he is unstoppable in forward motion. In his history this has been shown to be distinct from his actual physical strength, as this unstoppability in forward motion can be redirected and has been used against him before (ala WWH) and has practically different applications than physical strength does. Consequently Im not sure how you could pass off whatever unstoppability feats he does have as physical strength since it is quite clearly different. Unstoppability for instance wouldnt help him in lifting/bracing anything. Similarly we know a character can be definitevely stronger than Juggernaut and unable to stop him as this was explicitly mentioned by Colossonaut when fighting Depowered Kuurth.

Originally posted by Naija boy
You are equivocating terms. I believe the strength advantage between Hulk and full power Kuurth is large and so overpowering Full power Kuurth in a straight test of strength is something well within WBH ability to do. On the other hand, destroying Fullpower Kuurth brings his durability into it which is a distinct attribute not at all related to this debate.

Juggernauts unstoppability enchantment simply means that he is unstoppable in forward motion. In his history this has been shown to be distinct from his actual physical strength, as this unstoppability in forward motion has been used against him before (ala WWH) and has practically different applications than physical strength does. Consequently Im not sure how you could pass off whatever unstoppability feats he does have as physical strength since it is quite clearly different. Unstoppability for instance wouldnt help him in lifting/bracing anything. Similarly a character can be definitevely stronger than Juggernaut and unable to stop him as this was explicitly mentioned by Colossonaut when fighting Depowered Kuurth. Yeah and if you believe WBH to be as strong as you are saying then defeating FP Kuurth should be well within his power shouldn't it?

And Juggernaut's unstoppability can be used to to show how much pushing power he does have. So for instance if you hooked him up to a planet and he could move the planet then we know for sure he can move a planet with his power.

His power was used which means if he can match WBH then we know that WBH is not strong enough to overcome it.

Which means he is not as strong as you are claiming Hulk to be.

^Wait what? I dont believe Full power Kuurth durability to be anywhere close to the same level as his strength (it is much much higher) is and so whether or not WBH could destroy him is irrelevant. Stop sidetracking the discussion.

Yes it could be used to show his pushing power, but that would once again be entirely distinct from his strength. Pushing power in that case would be a unique and clearly distinguishable attribute of juggernaut and so not related to this discussion on strength. In juggernauts case, he could literally be class 1 and yet his unstoppability enchantment would do all the work if it had to do with him maintaining forward momentum.

My challenge was very clear cut and it was concerning the strength gap between WBHulk and FP Kuurth. While i do believe WBH can definitely outright stop juggernaut similar to War Hulk or what WWH almost did that is pretty irrelevant since that isnt the case i will be proving and is entirely different debate of its own. If you want we can do another one where we argue if WBH can stop juggernaut or what have you.

If you want to back down from it Newjak, you should say it straight, instead of dancing around it and trying to change the discussion into something else.

Naija is even being generous and said that not only is the strength gap significant, but WBH is at least 10 times as strong.

Will you step down from arguing against it or not?

Originally posted by Naija boy
^Wait what? I dont believe Full power Kuurth durability to be anywhere close to the same level as his strength (it is much much higher) is and so whether or not WBH could destroy him is irrelevant. Stop sidetracking the discussion.

Yes it could be used to show his pushing power, but that would once again be entirely distinct from his strength. Pushing power in that case would be a unique and clearly distinguishable attribute of juggernaut and so not related to this discussion on strength. In juggernauts case, he could literally be class 1 and yet his unstoppability enchantment would do all the work if it had to do with him maintaining forward momentum.

My challenge was very clear cut and it was concerning the strength gap between WBHulk and FP Kuurth. While i do believe WBH can definitely outright stop juggernaut similar to War Hulk or what WWH almost did that is pretty irrelevant since that isnt the case i will be proving and is entirely different debate of its own. If you want we can do another one where we argue if WBH can stop juggernaut or what have you. You want to prove that WBH is so much stronger than WWH, well you would think provinng he can over power Juggernaut's unstoppability enchantment would show that. I'll remove the idea of Kuurth's durability, but if you can prove that WBH could overcome FPK's durability then that would also show how much stronger WBH is.

And Phil I'm not backing down. Technically naj first proposed the idea of a bz and then I said go for it, and then nothing happened. I also didn't change the discussion at all I am still saying the same thing I've been saying all along. WBH is not that much stronger than other incarnation of Hulk.

So you can f*ck off Phil.

Originally posted by Newjak
So you can f*ck off Phil. I haven't been hostile, so there's no need to project your insecurities onto me.

I intervened because it seems like you want to dance around this issue. It's quite simple:

Originally posted by Newjak
WBH is not that much stronger than other incarnation of Hulk. Good. Naija is challenging you, quite generously I'd say, to debate against WBH being at least 10 times as strong as FI Hulk.

Will you take the challenge or not?

Originally posted by Newjak
You want to prove that WBH is so much stronger than WWH, well you would think provinng he can over power Juggernaut's unstoppability enchantment would show that. I'll remove the idea of Kuurth's durability, but if you can prove that WBH could overcome FPK's durability then that would also show how much stronger WBH is.

And Phil I'm not backing down. Technically naj first proposed the idea of a bz and then I said go for it, and then nothing happened. I also didn't change the discussion at all I am still saying the same thing I've been saying all along. WBH is not that much stronger than other incarnation of Hulk.

So you can f*ck off Phil.

I dont need to approach the debate in terms of whether WBH can overpower juggernauts unstoppability enchantment or not. Because quite frankly i dont view Juggs unstoppability enchantment as some all be end all force in the first place. Secondly there would be nothing to gain from framing the debate in such a manner as WBH overcoming Kuurths durability and overcoming juggernauts enchantments are not direct comparisons to Kuurths strength and take away from you having to actually explicitly muster a positive case for Kuurths strength based of feats.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I dont need to approach the debate in terms of whether WBH can overpower juggernauts unstoppability enchantment or not. Because quite frankly i dont view Juggs unstoppability enchantment as some all be end all force in the first place. Secondly there would be nothing to gain from framing the debate in such a manner as WBH overcoming Kuurths durability and overcoming juggernauts enchantments are not direct comparisons to Kuurths strength and take away from you having to actually explicitly muster a positive case for Kuurths strength based of feats. But they were enough to contend with previous versions of the Hulk, so if WBH is so much stronger than what Juggernaut's enchantments can muster then it shouldn't be the big of a deal to debate him overpowering them right.

You have it backwards. For me to debate that Hulk could overpower the enchantments, I would have to first assume or establish that WBH is alot stronger than previous versions of the Hulk which will be proved within this debate. I cant prove that he would overpower them and then try to prove that he is alot stronger because in proving the former I am implicitly going to need to prove the latter anyways.

Originally posted by Naija boy
You have it backwards. For me to debate that Hulk could overpower the enchantments, I would have to first assume or establish that WBH is alot stronger than previous versions of the Hulk which will be proved within this debate. I cant prove that he would overpower them and then try to prove that he is alot stronger because in proving the former I am implicitly going to need to prove the latter anyways. So either way you are going to try and prove it so what's the big deal. Do you not think Hulk could stop or over power FPK?

I mean if all you want to debate is that WBH far stronger than people like Thor/Juggernaut/Savage/Superman than why do we not just debate that. I don't need to represent a particular character to show that argument as false.

This is getting ridiculous and ends NOW. I do thnk WBH could overpower Juggs unstoppability enchantment but thats NOT what im trying to prove here. Im simply going to prove that he is significantly stronger than Full power Kuurth. Whether that significant gap is large enough to overcome his enchantment is another discussion and another debate.

Im proving that WBH is significantly stronger than FP Kuurth. What you are doing is fairly transparent as it is an attempt to shy away from providing an actual psotive case for FP Kuurths strength. The reason you are representing FP Kuurth is because that is the character I initially asserted WBH was much stronger than and that is the character the challenge was issued under. All these attempts at sidetracking the discussion and altering the substance of the debate are unbecoming. Im not debating WBH versus a range of characters i.e Thor/Superman/Savage etc. Im debating WBH vs Full power Kuurth strength wise. You accepted this and the terms of the debate were explicitly clear. If you dont like it anymore you may humbly withdraw. Period

Originally posted by Naija boy
This is getting ridiculous and ends NOW. I do thnk WBH could overpower Juggs unstoppability enchantment but thats NOT what im trying to prove here. Im simply going to prove that he is significantly stronger than Full power Kuurth. Whether that significant gap is large enough to overcome his enchantment is another discussion and another debate.

Im proving that WBH is significantly stronger than FP Kuurth. What you are doing is fairly transparent as it is an attempt to shy away from providing an actual psotive case for FP Kuurths strength. The reason you are representing FP Kuurth is because that is the character I initially asserted WBH was much stronger than and that is the character the challenge was issued under. All these attempts at sidetracking the discussion and altering the substance of the debate are unbecoming. Im not debating WBH versus a range of characters i.e Thor/Superman/Savage etc. Im debating WBH vs Full power Kuurth strength wise. You accepted this and the terms of the debate were explicitly clear. If you dont like it anymore you may humbly withdraw. Period I like how you said this stops NOW. Like you're demanding it from me.

I'm trying to prove WBH is not as strong as your claiming. You're goal is to prove it. As it stands I don't need to represent one particular character to do that.

And if I could use the full range of FPK's feats including his forward momentum feats and other abilities I would be all over that. As it stands I'm not about to use a character we both know doesn't have a huge amount of lifting feats and his best power feats involve him moving forward, which you would try to take away due to his unstoppability, to try and prove who is stronger.

It's asinine situation you're trying to put me in, and I'm not gonna let it happen. You can claim you know my intentions all you want I don't care.

So let's do it you prove WBH is so far above his piers from before. That's what you really want to prove anyways right? It shouldn't matter what feats from people I bring in. If WBH is so much stronger as you claim you should also be able to argue that those same feats are so far below him regardless of who they are from.

And I'm not gonna withdraw as it stands no terms were actually agreed upon that was the purpose of this thread after all to hammer out the details. If you want to back out be my guest.

I'm not going to, and you can bark half assed orders all you want that won't change anything.

lol

Originally posted by Newjak
I like how you said this stops NOW. Like you're demanding it from me.

I'm trying to prove WBH is not as strong as your claiming. You're goal is to prove it. As it stands I don't need to represent one particular character to do that.

And if I could use the full range of FPK's feats including his forward momentum feats and other abilities I would be all over that. As it stands I'm not about to use a character we both know doesn't have a huge amount of lifting feats and his best power feats involve him moving forward, which you would try to take away due to his unstoppability, to try and prove who is stronger.

It's asinine situation you're trying to put me in, and I'm not gonna let it happen. You can claim you know my intentions all you want I don't care.

So let's do it you prove WBH is so far above his piers from before. That's what you really want to prove anyways right? It shouldn't matter what feats from people I bring in. If WBH is so much stronger as you claim you should also be able to argue that those same feats are so far below him regardless of who they are from.

And I'm not gonna withdraw as it stands no terms were actually agreed upon that was the purpose of this thread after all to hammer out the details. If you want to back out be my guest.

I'm not going to, and you can bark half assed orders all you want that won't change anything.

lol, something must be wrong with you. I challenged you to a battlezone between World Breaker Hulk/Full powered Kuurth/8th day juggernaut/Thor strength gap. Your dumb ass chose to represent Full powered Kuurth. Do you think at all? You actually selected the character planning and thinking that it would be valid using his non-strength feats (i.e momentum) and "other abilities", when the discussion was based on strength specifically. Are you freaking kidding me? facepalm. If the situation is asinine then you only have your roomy skull to thank for it. You are NOT limited to lifting feats, you are limited to any feats that indicate his physical strength of which unstoppability due to his enchantment is NOT one of. This thread is not about the useless and ambiguous term "power" which u seem to want to toss in all the time and so im not taking away anything as anything other than strength would be automatically excluded from the get go.

The details of the thread were not to be hammered out as you had already accepted its premise and chosen your character; all that was to be done is know when we would start. Trying to represent a range of characters just gives you the ability to NOT need to explicitly present a POSITIVE case for a particular character based on their feats. I would instead be presenting a positive case for World Breaker Hulk and then counter arguments for as many characters as you saw fit to bring up. Thats for the versus Forum. My challenge was intended to be a straight up comparison between WBH and another character of your own freaking choosing strengthwise. Not durability wise, Not unstopabbility wise, Not "other abilities" wise but STRENGTHWISE. The terms were unequivocally contained within the challenge. You say you wont back out but are to scared to use Full powered Kuurth. Fine, then choose another one of the characters and lets get a move on. Jeez facepalm

Originally posted by Naija boy
lol, something must be wrong with you. I challenged you to a battlezone between World Breaker Hulk/Full powered Kuurth/8th day juggernaut/Thor strength gap. Your dumb ass chose to represent Full powered Kuurth. Do you think at all? You actually selected the character planning and thinking that it would be valid using his non-strength feats (i.e momentum) and "other abilities", when the discussion was based on strength specifically. Are you freaking kidding me? facepalm. If the situation is asinine then you only have your roomy skull to thank for it. You are NOT limited to lifting feats, you are limited to any feats that indicate his physical strength of which unstoppability due to his enchantment is NOT one of. This thread is not about the useless and ambiguous term "power" which u seem to want to toss in all the time and so im not taking away anything as anything other than strength would be automatically excluded from the get go.

The details of the thread were not to be hammered out as you had already accepted its premise and chosen your character; all that was to be done is know when we would start. Trying to represent a range of characters just gives you the ability to NOT need to explicitly present a POSITIVE case for a particular character based on their feats. I would instead be presenting a positive case for World Breaker Hulk and then counter arguments for as many characters as you saw fit to bring up. Thats for the versus Forum. My challenge was intended to be a straight up comparison between WBH and another character of your own freaking choosing strengthwise. Not durability wise, Not unstopabbility wise, Not "other abilities" wise but STRENGTHWISE. The terms were unequivocally contained within the challenge. You say you wont back out but are to scared to use Full powered Kuurth. Fine, then choose another one of the characters and lets get a move on. Jeez facepalm Well That's Epic Ownage

Originally posted by TheHulk
Well That's Epic Ownage How is it epic ownage, he actually makes a couple of mistakes there.

For one I challenged him, two I picked FPK. He gave me a list of options after I had already chosen someone.

I also chose FPK under the circumstances it would be a debate style fight. In the understanding that if naj could prove WBH could overpower and beat FPK ,a stronger version of Juggernaut, someone directly comparable to WWH,, then that would prove his case that WBH is vastly stronger than other incarnations of Hulk.

I'm the one who issued the challenge and chose my character with different impressions of what the battle was going to be. He made the thread and now he's acting like he's the one who gave me the options and issued the challenge and I'm the coward for not excepting an obvious bait trap.

I should also add in he did issue a challenge back in the one WBH thread and I said go for it but he never did anything with it.

So I'm the one who issued the challenge I picked the character before he even stated any terms and this after I had already told him to go for the BZ challenge he did earlier which he never did anything with. Yet he comes in here and makes his own claims and terms then gets to call me a coward.

The fact is if he wants to state WBH is so much stronger than any other incarnation of Hulk I think that is a fair battlezone debate myself. And the one pertinent to this discussion at hand considering that is what we are trying to prove anyways.

I will be fair and state he did mention discussing the strength gap but I figured it would be more trying to prove WBH's strength compared to how he fairs against similar opponents to other Hulks to prove that there is a significant gap.

Once again he does not get to come in here and act like this debate was set in stone and he was the final authority on the challenge I issued after he ran and punked out once already.

But just in case I'm being unfair, I'll wait and see what other people have to say about this, and by other people I mean Leo/Existere basically anyone who would possibly be a judge.

If they feel my idea of just arguing WBH's supposed vast strength increase is an unfair challenge even though I feel that is core pertinent topic to that we are trying to discuss, I'll even limit it to just Marvel characters if it would placate you some naj, I'll use either Thor or Superman in the fight.

What I'm not gonna do is get caught in a debate using a nerfed character whose best feats for showcasing my points are gonna get taken away so naj can feel good about himself.

Originally posted by Newjak
How is it epic ownage, he actually makes a couple of mistakes there.

For one I challenged him, two I picked FPK. He gave me a list of options after I had already chosen someone.

I also chose FPK under the circumstances it would be a debate style fight. In the understanding that if naj could prove WBH could overpower and beat FPK ,a stronger version of Juggernaut, someone directly comparable to WWH,, then that would prove his case that WBH is vastly stronger than other incarnations of Hulk.

I'm the one who issued the challenge and chose my character with different impressions of what the battle was going to be. He made the thread and now he's acting like he's the one who gave me the options and issued the challenge and I'm the coward for not excepting an obvious bait trap.

I should also add in he did issue a challenge back in the one WBH thread and I said go for it but he never did anything with it.

So I'm the one who issued the challenge I picked the character before he even stated any terms and this after I had already told him to go for the BZ challenge he did earlier which he never did anything with. Yet he comes in here and makes his own claims and terms then gets to call me a coward.

The fact is if he wants to state WBH is so much stronger than any other incarnation of Hulk I think that is a fair battlezone debate myself. And the one pertinent to this discussion at hand considering that is what we are trying to prove anyways.

I will be fair and state he did mention discussing the strength gap but I figured it would be more trying to prove WBH's strength compared to how he fairs against similar opponents to other Hulks to prove that there is a significant gap.

Once again he does not get to come in here and act like this debate was set in stone and he was the final authority on the challenge I issued after he ran and punked out once already.

But just in case I'm being unfair, I'll wait and see what other people have to say about this, and by other people I mean Leo/Existere basically anyone who would possibly be a judge.

If they feel my idea of just arguing WBH's supposed vast strength increase is an unfair challenge even though I feel that is core pertinent topic to that we are trying to discuss, I'll even limit it to just Marvel characters if it would placate you some naj, I'll use either Thor or Superman in the fight.

You live in Bizarro world. I especially liked the part about me copping out and running. I made this challenge first in the Hulks vs Juggernaut thread. You replied with something like

Originally posted by Newjak
Haha whatever dude Thor and Hercules as already stating were getting ready to shake the Earth of it's orbit. That alone is roughly equal to WBH's feat.

And that is all that needs to be said.

As for the rest you're just flat out wrong, and as for a battle zone and ripping my stuff to shreds. Whatever man. Go for it.

"Whatever man" and the general tone of the response made me not take this as a serious reply and I moved on. Then in the second thread you said in response to a post of mine
Originally posted by Newjak

You know what man let's get this over with.

You me Battlezone. We'll see how inept I am

I took this as an actual acceptance of my challenge and you then chose FP Kuurth. I still wanted to be sure you were actually accepting it as it was proposed and I then clarified what i had suggested the battlezone be about.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Heh, u cant even muster any counterarguments. Ur claims of "stupid " have gotten old. Further what i suggested we battlezone is the strength gap between 8th day Juggernaut/FP Kuurth and WBH . Or conversely we can do whats being discussed in this thread which is the strength gap between Thor and WBH. If you are down then lets do it.

And then here you clearly agreed to this
Originally posted by Newjak
Why would I make a counter argument I'm just gonna end up doing i nthe battle zone anyways

And sure we can do 8th Day/FP Kuurth is you want.

What here is a bait trap? The strength gap between Hulk and the title characters of these threads had always been the issue and thats why i explicitly mentioned what i wanted to battlezone. You agreed, and said it was fine. Heck even in this thread after in the OP i once again mentioned what it would be about you came in and said i was misrepresenting you. I then asked what you were going to be arguing exactly

Originally posted by Naija boy
"what strength gap" (implies that there is none) This was written in response to my mentioning of the strength gap between them. These are your words not mine. But anyways if you have changed your position its fine. What will you be arguing exactly?

You gave some cryptic reply and then I tried to clarify yet AGAIN
Originally posted by Naija boy
Ok so your arguing that the strength gap isnt significant/is minor?

to which you replied..
Originally posted by Newjak
Isn't Significant sounds good to me.

Hence all in line with the initial terms concerning what the battlezone was to be about. Unfortunately, Its after this simple and blatantly clear exchange that your idiocy took a hold of the thread and hasnt let go; from trying to bring in durability to unstoppability to some bafflingly mysterious other abilities.

However, since you now want to change the entire premise of the thread upon realization that you would not be able to defend yourself then fine. I tire of this farcical dancing game you want to play so I'll even agree to doing the strength gap between Wordbreaker Hulk and a set of Marvel characters roughly within the same tier or between WBH and other versions of Hulk. Lets just clarify who those characters are and get moving. Further: facepalm

Originally posted by Naija boy
You live in Bizarro world. I especially liked the part about me copping out and running. I made this challenge first in the Hulks vs Juggernaut thread. You replied with something like



"Whatever man" and the general tone of the response made me not take this as a serious reply and I moved on. Then in the second thread you said in response to a post of mine


I took this as an actual acceptance of my challenge and you then chose FP Kuurth. I still wanted to be sure you were actually accepting it as it was proposed and I then clarified what i had suggested the battlezone be about.


And then here you clearly agreed to this


What here is a bait trap? The strength gap between Hulk and the title characters of these threads had always been the issue and thats why i explicitly mentioned what i wanted to battlezone. You agreed, and said it was fine. Heck even in this thread after in the OP i once again mentioned what it would be about you came in and said i was misrepresenting you. I then asked what you were going to be arguing exactly



You gave some cryptic reply and then I tried to clarify yet AGAIN


to which you replied..


Hence all in line with the initial terms concerning what the battlezone was to be about. Unfortunately, Its after this simple and blatantly clear exchange that your idiocy took a hold of the thread and hasnt let go; from trying to bring in durability to unstoppability to some bafflingly mysterious other abilities.

However, since you now want to change the entire premise of the thread upon realization that you would not be able to defend yourself then fine. I tire of this farcical dancing game you want to play so I'll even agree to doing the strength gap between Wordbreaker Hulk and a set of Marvel characters roughly within the same tier or between WBH and other versions of Hulk. Lets just clarify who those characters are and get moving. Further: facepalm You can go ahead and hightlight the point where I said go for it. You never asked me if I was joking if you just assumed I wasn't treating it seriously that is your own damn fault, but last time I checked saying go for it a pretty clear sign to you know go for it.

I also never agreed to how we were gonna debate this. You are the only one who said this had to be a pure test of strength feats.

What don't you understand, I don't need a list of characters to represent. I'm just going to debate that WBH is not as strong as you are making him out to be. You need to learn to comprehend statements or if you need clarifications ask me before you assume something.

I'm just not gonna use any of DC's characters to make my points.

I guess that could mean I'm representing previous versions of Hulk, but I don't really need to have a defined character or set of characters chosen in a debate about whether or not WBH is a lot stronger than his previous versions.

All I have to do is prove that WBH is not a lot stronger than his previous versions. But if you want me to have a specific character I guess I'll choose previous versions of the Hulk.

We'll let the Judges decide what's valid in the arguments.

I like how this debate is going so far

Originally posted by Starscream M
I like how this debate is going so far How do you think it is going?

EDIT: I was only able to not defend the character I was using when you decided to Handicap them. If you don't see how comparing Hulk's strength next to Juggernaut's pushing feats would show how much stronger WBH is or is not then you need to understand how to compare things.

Somebody call Juntai in. Need someone to lay down the law here.

A test of strength usually involves a comparison of strength feats and not anything else but i apologize for over estimating your intelligence. To avoid this thread going through any further hell, How about this, you can use juggernauts pushing feats as evidence of his strength if you like as well and then can represent full powered Kuurth if you like or since you are bent on shying away from proving a positive case for a character, we can debate whether WBH Hulk is alot stronger than previous Hulks.

Originally posted by Naija boy
A test of strength usually involves a comparison of strength feats and not anything else but i apologize for over estimating your intelligence. To avoid this thread going through any further hell, How about this, you can use juggernauts pushing feats as evidence of his strength if you like as well and then can represent full powered Kuurth if you like or since you are bent on shying away from proving a positive case for a character, we can debate whether WBH Hulk is alot stronger than previous Hulks. You can prove someone is stronger than they were or greatly stronger than they were based on how their strength compares against obstacles.

For instance if Hulk's strength wasn't great enough to overcome Cain's forward momentum but you could somehow prove WBH could. Well then you proved he is way stronger than before. Or if WBH can overcome Juggernaut's durability that proves he is a lot stronger, cause he would need a lot more strength to do it.

I hope you can understand that.

Your claim and the style you have been using in debates is that WBH wins because he is so much stronger than what he used to be. That if anyone was close to previous version of Hulks then they must be so much weaker than WBH. That's a stance that's a debatable point. I don't need to represent a particular character to disprove that statement.

That's what I want to debate. That's what I've been wanting to debate. That's why I've be hesitant because you've been trying to set guidelines to things I don't want to do and haven't wanted to do.

Why can your brain not wrap around that concept.

But whatever at this point the arguments I'm gonna use aren't gonna change regardless of the character I use. And since you're not trying to nerf Kuurth anymore I'll go ahead and use him so you don't think I'm "shying" away.

Originally posted by Newjak
How do you think it is going?
very well. I think the pre-debate debate might be more interesting than the actual debate.

For their strength (WBH and WWH) to compare against obstacles, they would both have to have faced the same obstacles in the first place. Hence the obstacle would be a reference point. If they havent faced the same obstacle (in this case Juggernauts unstoppability) then using his forward momentum as a reference point would be daft since the comparison in and of itself is a hypothetical. I would first have to prove how much stronger WBH is than his previous incarnation and THEN argue about whether that increase is in itself sufficient to assert that he can overcome Kuurths unstoppability. I cant use WBH overcoming Kuurths enchantment as proof of how much stronger than WWH he is because since he has never actually done it before on panel, i would have to make a case that WBH can overcome the enchantment based on his individual feats in the first place. However, for the argument to be valid those feats would already have to show that WBH was alot stronger than WWH (Granting for the sake of argument that it would take a vast increase in strength in order to stop Kuurth). Hence WBH being alot stronger than WWH is already implicit in the case against Kuurth. This is how actual logic works Newjack. Listen I minored in philosophy, I can break it down into standard form and even diagram it for you if you like.

Thus like i suggested my previous post, we should set up the debate around the point of whether WBH is significantly stronger than previous Hulks and you can try to disprove it while i support it. Fine?

Originally posted by Naija boy
For their strength (WBH and WWH) to compare against obstacles, they would both have to have faced the same obstacles in the first place. Hence the obstacle would be a reference point. If they havent faced the same obstacle (in this case Juggernauts unstoppability) then using his forward momentum as a reference point would be daft since the comparison in and of itself is a hypothetical. I would first have to prove how much stronger WBH is than his previous incarnation and THEN argue about whether that increase is in itself sufficient to assert that he can overcome Kuurths unstoppability. I cant use WBH overcoming Kuurths enchantment as proof of how much stronger than WWH he is because since he has never actually done it before on panel, i would have to make a case that WBH can overcome the enchantment based on his individual feats in the first place. However, for the argument to be valid those feats would already have to show that WBH was alot stronger than WWH (Granting for the sake of argument that it would take a vast increase in strength in order to stop Kuurth). Hence WBH being alot stronger than WWH is already implicit in the case against Kuurth. This is how actual logic works Newjack. Listen I minored in philosophy, I can break it down into standard form and even diagram it for you if you like.

Thus like i suggested my previous post, we should set up the debate around the point of whether WBH is significantly stronger than previous Hulks and you can try to disprove it while i support it. Fine? Except in order to prove WBH was in fact stronger than Kuurth you would have had to prove he is stronger than his forward momentum anyways.

So you actually have it backwards.

Cause I would just use the fact Juggernaut pushed WWH backwards as proof of Juggeranut's forward momentum powers, so in order to prove WBH is magnitude's stronger than Kuurth you would also have to prove WBH is margins stronger than WWH anyways. Which means you would have to feel that if WBH is margins stronger than Kuurth that WBH would also have to fair much much better than WWH did which you would have to prove.

I can draw you a diagram if you want or break it down into standard form for you to so understand.

If Juggeranut pushes WWH backwards

Then WBH must be able to do much much better to prove he is magnitude's stronger then Kuurth.

And in order to do that he must be much stronger than WWH.

See the logic I hope a philosophy minor would see it there.

Either way setting up the debate around whether WBH is significantly stronger then his previous versions is exactly what I want.

And I just used that Juggeranut thing as an example to show the idea of using something other than strength to gauge strength.

So go ahead.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Thus like i suggested my previous post, we should set up the debate around the point of whether WBH is significantly stronger than previous Hulks and you can try to disprove it while i support it. Fine? you would have to define 'significant'...as that's very open to interpretation.

Why is there an argument about how you disprove it?

It seems that if you're both settled on arguing for/against Hulk being 'significantly stronger than his previous incarnations', you should be able to use any line of logic available.

Unless you're arguing something else, I lost interest in wading through all the back and forth.

Originally posted by Newjak
Except in order to prove WBH was in fact stronger than Kuurth you would have had to prove he is stronger than his forward momentum anyways.

So you actually have it backwards.

Cause I would just use the fact Juggernaut pushed WWH backwards as proof of Juggeranut's forward momentum powers, B]so in order to prove WBH is magnitude's stronger than Kuurth you would also have to prove WBH is margins stronger than WWH anyways. Which means you would have to feel that if WBH is margins stronger than Kuurth that WBH would also have to fair much much better than WWH did which you would have to prove.



No offense Newjak but you need a better grasp on logic and this post just re-enforces what I am saying. There is no shame in being wrong in this case as you are clearly formally not versed in logic but you are still wrong none the less. The quote above is just a mess of self contradiction.

Note the part of your quote I underlined, You just stated and confirmed exactly what I am saying. "In order to prove WBH is magnitudes stronger than Kuurth i would have to prove that WBH is magnitudes stronger than WWH anyways". (granting for sake of argument that he needs to be much stronger in order to break the enchantment that WWH failed to do) This is because it is implicitly required that for WBH to be considerably stronger than Kuurth forward movement, he be considerably stronger than WWH as well. WBH fairing much better than WWH did would be proved by showing the difference between he and WWH in the first place. Its not the other way round. I have to establish WBH strength level first (i.e considerably above WWH) and then argue that he is strong enough to overcome Kuurths unstoppability. Ironically, you are proving and virtually asserting my point while attempting to argue against it..smh.lol dont bother trying any diagrams. For your sake keep it simple

Anyhow im not here to give lessons of elementary logic. Since we already know the core idea of what we are arguing we are fine as it will be regarding the strength gap between Hulk and previous incarnations.

at this point, I have no idea what this debate is about anymore.

can someone just post in one short sentence what the debate is on?

is it: WBHulk is 10x stronger than WWH

^ The debate has now changed to the strength gap between WBH and his previous incarnations since Newjack backtracked on the original. He says he cant start this weekend but i guess we will begin next week.

Which previous incarnation? how much of a gap? I think these issues need to be quantified before a debate can began

^By previous incarnations i think we are going Savage/Prof/WWH. And by significant ill go with the at least 10x stronger or more thing like previously stated

Originally posted by Naija boy
^By previous incarnations i think we are going Savage/Prof/WWH. which of those specifically...I mean the 3 are pretty wide range

I can see a much easier case for WBH being 10x stronger than prof hulk than being 10x stronger than WWH

PR has agreed to be a judge and Existere seemed interested I don't know if he still is.

How many judges do you want Naj?

3-5 judges is fine. OnedumbG0 and JaketheBank said they would be down to judge as well. We could add two more, maybe Existere or Badabing if he is willing so we get a full panel of judges.

Adding the extra judges sounds good to me.

so Newjak when are you good to start?

Saturday should be good.

Did we get all 5 judges?

I can still judge if you're looking. Just PM me, let me know.

Leo said he would be willing to Judge as well.

We have 5 judges now, Onedumb, Badabing, Existere , jakethebank, and PR.
I had five judges in mind Newjak. Did you want to add Leo as a sixth?

Originally posted by Naija boy
We have 5 judges now, Onedumb, Badabing, Existere , jakethebank, and PR.
I had five judges in mind Newjak. Did you want to add Leo as a sixth? When I talked to Badabing he said he would a judge if we really needed one, so we can switch Bada out for Leo, so Bada doesn't have to do it.

I kinda see Newjak's point about his enchantment being a from of Strength. I also understand what Naj is saying... but it's like this... if you have an enchantment that negates another person strength they are trying to use against you.. how would that NOT count as a form of strength?

So here is where this is at as of right now:

Judges: Onedumb, (Badabing/Leo?), Existere , jakethebank, and PR.

Match: Naj will be trying to prove that WBH is significantly stronger than other versions of Hulk. I'm not for sure the exact amount. I've been going off the impression he wants to prove that WBH is at least 10xs as strong. I'm sure he will correct that statement if it is wrong.

So once I get confirmation from Naj on whether the 10 tims statement is correct and whether or not he is ok with Leo over Bada as a judge we can start.

can't wait

Originally posted by psycho gundam
can't wait

aBaYVo89mmY

Originally posted by Newjak

Match: Naj will be trying to prove that WBH is significantly stronger than other versions of Hulk. version(s)? you should pick ONE version of hulk as the baseline to compare WBH to....otherwise I foresee chaos.

Originally posted by Starscream M
version(s)? you should pick ONE version of hulk as the baseline to compare WBH to....otherwise I foresee chaos.

Agreed and his best choice would be Savage Hulk since he has the most fts but the thing about that is it would leave Naja open to use fts to prove that WWH is stronger than Savage (which would be easy) and then Thats all Naja would have to do is prove that WBH is stronger than WWH.

Originally posted by carver9
Agreed and his best choice would be Savage Hulk since he has the most fts but the thing about that is it would leave Naja open to use fts to prove that WWH is stronger than Savage (which would be easy) and then Thats all Naja would have to do is prove that WBH is stronger than WWH. Actually that wouldn't be the case carver.

The point of the thread is to prove WBH is significantly stronger than other version of Hulk, that mostly means Savage Hulk. So simply proving that WBH > WWH > Savage does not mean anything to the guidelines of the match.

Ok Newjack, yeah we can have Leo instead of Bada. Oh and yeah I am going to prove that WBH is significantly greater than WWH/Savage hulk/Prof Hulk. If me proving that WWH>Savage Hulk can aid me in achieving my overall goal then I sure as hell will.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Ok Newjack, yeah we can have Leo instead of Bada. Oh and yeah I am going to prove that WBH is significantly greater than WWH/Savage hulk/Prof Hulk. If me proving that WWH>Savage Hulk can aid me in achieving my overall goal then I sure as hell will. Cool, and I was expecting you to try that so no shocker me.

After going through the initial WBH vs Thor slug fest thread. Id like to switch out PR for another judge. No offence PR as i think you are more than capable but i noticed that you seemed to already agree with some of what Newjak stated in that thread (possibly due to Carver the anti-hulk but still) which sort of spawned this whole debate. I already have my first post typed up but i want to clear up the judging issue before posting it.

If we went through all the WBH vs Someone fist fight threads what do you think the odds are that we'll find posts from all the judges that would lean to one side or the other in our debate?

Might I suggest having the debate first then deciding on the judges. Deciding the judges is the worst and you hope the judge will decide who wins the debate based on the debaters not their own personal opinion regarding the matchup.

Originally posted by Newjak
If we went through all the WBH vs Someone fist fight threads what do you think the odds are that we'll find posts from all the judges that would lean to one side or the other in our debate?

I actually agree with this. You aren't going to find someone here who doesn't already have an opinion on this one way or the other. If your argument is clear and strong enough, you should have no problem convincing someone the opposite of what they currently believe... Unless Naija is saying that Pr is biased. But I don't think that's what he's trying to say.

On second thought no worries. I was iniitially tentative because i looked over it and Pr was present within the thread that sparked the entire debate in which Carver was advocating pro hulk positions and unfortunately doing more harm than good to the overall argument (no offense Carver ) with Pr even having to correct him on some issues. Hence for a sec i thought Carver mightve permanently tainted his view of the issues in question (which often happens where good ol carver is involved) However Pr is one of the more fair and balanced posters around here and so ill trust his objectivity in approaching the discussion.

So is this not happening? I was looking forward to seeing it.

Originally posted by Naija boy
On second thought no worries. I was iniitially tentative because i looked over it and Pr was present within the thread that sparked the entire debate in which Carver was advocating pro hulk positions and unfortunately doing more harm than good to the overall argument (no offense Carver ) with Pr even having to correct him on some issues. Hence for a sec i thought Carver mightve permanently tainted his view of the issues in question (which often happens where good ol carver is involved) However Pr is one of the more fair and balanced posters around here and so ill trust his objectivity in approaching the discussion. Sounds good

So with that out of the question the only thing I want to verify for certain is how much stronger is Naji trying to state WBH is stronger than Savage Hulk. We'll use that as the base line.

Ok im about to put up my first posts but i want to calrify Newjak if you are going to be making a positive case for anything or if you are merely going to be trying to counter my arguments?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Ok im about to put up my first posts but i want to calrify Newjak if you are going to be making a positive case for anything or if you are merely going to be trying to counter my arguments? Does it matter?

The point is for you to prove WBH is what 10 times stronger than any other version of Hulk, while I'm trying to prove that isn't true.

From that point on it doesn't matter how I argue, unless I'm missing something.

Im asking this because if we get the same number of posts, and I have to take a certain amount of posts establishing my argument (which i assure u is very comprehensive), then u get to simply try to rebut them with all your posts then it is uneven. I would have less posts available for actually engaging you in crossfire debate since i would have to use some of them to establish the argument and present evidence in the first place

Originally posted by Naija boy
Im asking this because if we get the same number of posts, and I have to take a certain amount of posts establishing my argument (which i assure u is very comprehensive), then u get to simply try to rebut them with all your posts then it is uneven. I would have less posts available for actually engaging you in crossfire debate since i would have to use some of them to establish the argument and present evidence in the first place You're first post should cover that fairly well I would think. As for how I go about this debate is up to me, whether I want to prove a positive or not or just try and debunk any argument you have.

^No, the case goes beyond my first post which is the issue. As i said, it is very comprehensive. Since im having to both establish my case to the judges and then go into the debate defending it from any of your attempted refutations it is uneven if i have the same amount of posts since i have much more to do in the same space

Originally posted by Naija boy
^No, the case goes beyond my first post which is the issue. As i said, it is very comprehensive. Since im having to both establish my case to the judges and then go into the debate defending it from any of your attempted refutations it is uneven if i have the same amount of posts since i have much more to do. The case is simply what we both agree to be the stipulations of the match.

Is WBH more than 10 times stronger than any other incarnation of Hulk.

We each get 12 posts to to show either for or against. What I do with my posts in determining that doesn't matter to you. You're still going to try and prove the samething regardless.

You're dodging Newjack.

^^ *Sigh* Newjack ur just not getting it. The issue is that in battlezones/versus matches individuals usually prove positive cases on both sides hence they prove their case in favour of whatever character they are supporting and refute their opponents case within the same space. The issue here, is that I am going to first have to establish a positive case for WBH, which you are probably just going to try and refute with all of your 12 posts. I on the other hand will have less posts to counter these refutations since i would already take up space trying to establish my assertion in the first place. A burden which you do not have. which is why having the same amount of posts is uneven.

Originally posted by carver9
You're dodging Newjack. How am I dodging. I don't know exactly what Naji wants here.

We have the stipulations we have the post count.


What we do with them is our own.

Does he want to know what I'm going to prove?... That's already been stated.

Does he want me tell him the arguments I'm going to use to prove that?.. That isn't happening, why would I give him that it doesn't make sense...

Originally posted by Naija boy
^ *Sigh* Not getting it. The issue is that in battlezones/versus matches individuals usually prove positive cases on both sides hence they prove their case in favour of whatever character they are supporting and refute their opponents case within the same space. The issue here, is that I am going to first have to establish a positive case for WBH, which you are probably just going to try and refute with all of your 12 posts. I on the other hand will have less posts to counter these refutations since i would already take up space trying to establish my assertion in the first place. A burden which you do not have. which is why having the same amount of posts is uneven I get it, it's just weird and doesn't add up.

What do you want an extra post?

What exactly would you want to make it fair?

Do you want me to specifically tell you want I'm going to do with my posts?

Seriously we have the stipulations you're trying to prove one side I'm trying to prove the other go to town Naji.

I am saying that the same amount of posts is uneven. So yes an additional post would suffice. The issue is that you are NOT trying to prove anything (that would necessitate a positive case). You are trying to disprove something and so you have to rely on me posting my argument first and then trying to counter it. I dont need to know your arguments nor do i care to.

Originally posted by Naija boy
I am saying that the same amount of posts is uneven. So yes an additional post would suffice. The issue is that you are NOT trying to prove anything (that would necessitate a positive case). You are trying to disprove something and so you have to rely on me posting my argument first and then trying to counter it. I dont need to know your arguments nor do i care to. So basically you want the extra post so you can get the last word in is essentially what it is.

You're also making a big jump in logic here. I don't have to wait for you to post first. I could still post my own arguments first. You imply I need you to somehow start this debate I don't.

Cause I am trying to prove something, WBH is not more than 10 times as strong as other versions of Hulk. I don't need you for that but how I choose to go about this debate and use my posts is up to me.

So you can take your unfair bullshit and go somewhere else. If you want we can ask the judges to decide how unfair it is?

Or we can ask one of the judges to take an opening post from each of us then post them for us not counting to our total?

Or I can give you one extra post. Whatever will make you feel better and less wanting to cry. Cause honestly if after 12 posts from each of us you can not get across or debunk all the relative points to this debate something's wrong and one extra post is not going to help you.

What a blockhead. This has absolutely nothing to do with getting the last word in as even with an extra post, I still WOULD NOT get the last word in because of how comprehensive the case im going to have to first establish is. I tire of your mindless badgering so yeah i will take that extra post if you agree and my first posts will be up in the next few minutes

Originally posted by Naija boy
What a blockhead. This has absolutely nothing to do with getting the last word in as even with an extra post, I still WOULD NOT get the last word in because of how comprehensive the case im going to have to first establish is. I tire of your mindless badgering so yeah i will take that extra post if you agree and my first posts will be up in the next few minutes Wait so let me get this straight you're asking me for an extra post because you decided to blow a couple of posts on your opening. I take it back I'm not giving you the extra post because you wanted and chose to do that.

That's your own damn fault.

One of you all need to post. Newjack, look at the battlezones before this, the two have to choose who starts the debate off, this isn't a regular comic board thread. So are you going to do the first post and prove that WWH and WBH is less powerful or not to far away in power from Savage Hulk?

Originally posted by Newjak
Wait so let me get this straight you're asking me for an extra post because you decided to blow a couple of posts on your opening. I take it back I'm not giving you the extra post because you wanted and chose to do that.

That's your own damn fault.

You are dodging. It shouldn't matter who post first or last, as long as the point is proven. Stop dodging and just start this sh**. You are crying over a debate. Just post and get this over with. If you need more post, just ask, if you need more time, just ask...its just that simple. Stop crying.

Originally posted by Newjak
Wait so let me get this straight you're asking me for an extra post because you decided to blow a couple of posts on your opening. I take it back I'm not giving you the extra post because you wanted and chose to do that.

That's your own damn fault.

lol facepalm

Originally posted by carver9
One of you all need to post. Newjack, look at the battlezones before this, the two have to choose who starts the debate off, this isn't a regular comic board thread. So are you going to do the first post and prove that WWH and WBH is less powerful or not to far away in power from Savage Hulk? Say for a second I care about how you guys normally do it.

Is it also standard rules to give someone an extra post because they decided to blow more than one into the opening.

If that is what Naj is saying.

Originally posted by Naija boy
lol facepalm What now?

Originally posted by Newjak
Say for a second I care about how you guys normally do it.

Is it also standard rules to give someone an extra post because they decided to blow more than one into the opening.

If that is what Naj is saying.

It's a battlezone...find a middle ground and decide who post first...its that simple. From the way it looks, you want to post first AND last...WTF. You are acting spoil right now. Choose one, do you want to post first or do you want to post last.?

Originally posted by carver9
It's a battlezone...find a middle ground and decide who post first...its that simple. From the way it looks, you want to post first AND last...WTF. You are acting spoil right now. Choose one, do you want to post first or do you want to post last.? What the F*ck are you talking about?

wait, naija, all you have to prove is that wbhulk is 10x stronger than ANY version of hulk?

so, just pick the weakest hulk, ie grey hulk, and prove WBHulk is 10x stronger than grey hulk...shouldn't be too hard.

Originally posted by Starscream M
wait, naija, all you have to prove is that wbhulk is 10x stronger than ANY version of hulk?

so, just pick the weakest hulk, ie grey hulk, and prove WBHulk is 10x stronger than grey hulk...shouldn't be too hard. ANYOTHER

Originally posted by Newjak
Say for a second I care about how you guys normally do it.

Is it also standard rules to give someone an extra post because they decided to blow more than one into the opening.

If that is what Naj is saying.

That has nothing to do with it. Im trying TO PROVE something while you are trying to DISPROVE it. You arent proving anything. You are disproving an assertion. This is why you were waiting for me to post first and this is why i kept asking you if you were going to be proving a positive case for anything. Not to know your argument but to know what kind of debate this was. If we are both providing Your ignorance of the structure of debates as well as simple terms used in argumentation is appalling.

facepalm

Originally posted by Naija boy
That has nothing to do with it. Im trying TO PROVE something while you are trying to DISPROVE it. You arent proving anything. You are disproving an assertion. This is why you were waiting for me to post first and this is why i kept asking you if you were going to be proving a positive case for anything. Not to know your argument but to know what kind of debate this was. If we are both providing Your ignorance of the structure of debates as well as simple terms used in argumentation is appalling.

facepalm How do you DISPROVE something... BY PROVING something isn't true about it or PROVING the OPPOSITE is true. Learn to understand my ability to debate this topic has nothing to do with you having to go first. You should calm yourself down and actually think about it before you jump to an assumption like that.

I can PROVE that WBH is not 10 times stronger than anyother version of Hulk. Learn to understand that.

I could have gone first you didn't have to. That's your own damn fault.

Also why do you need this extra post? Cause you said you made the opening so comprehensive? Does that mean you used multiple posts to open. Once again not my fault.

how about I post first

^ i already beat you to it

So is that your Opening Post, is anymore going up?

I'm impressed by naija's first post...it's very comprehensive...this is going to be a interesting debate

Originally posted by Newjak
How do you DISPROVE something... BY PROVING something isn't true about it or PROVING the OPPOSITE is true. Learn to understand my ability to debate this topic has nothing to do with you having to go first. You should calm yourself down and actually think about it before you jump to an assumption like that.

I can PROVE that WBH is not 10 times stronger than anyother version of Hulk. Learn to understand that.

I could have gone first you didn't have to. That's your own damn fault.

Also why do you need this extra post? Cause you said you made the opening so comprehensive? Does that mean you used multiple posts to open. Once again not my fault.

If you are going to be actually attempting to present a a case for why WBH is not 10x stronger beyond just trying to reply my posts then that is welcome. Which is what i initially nicely asked (my question regarding positive cases) and you refused to answer (probably because you dont even know the meaning of the term), but are now claiming that you CAN do. Anyhow im done here. the rest of whatever im post will be up in a bit.

I truly don't have the words to describe Newjack. I'm in unbelief right now. It's shocking.

Originally posted by Naija boy
If you are going to be actually attempting to present a a case for why WBH is not 10x stronger beyond just trying to reply my posts then that is welcome. Which is what i initially nicely asked (my question regarding positive cases) and you refused to answer (probably because you dont even know the meaning of the term), but are now claiming that you CAN do. Anyhow im done here. the rest of whatever im post will be up in a bit.

Destroy him. I'm pretty sure he won't post anything...he's dodging.

this is some of the best predebate banter I've witnessed....naija's posts are just dripping with acrimonious condescension

Originally posted by Naija boy
If you are going to be actually attempting to present a a case for why WBH is not 10x stronger beyond just trying to reply my posts then that is welcome. Which is what i initially nicely asked (my question regarding positive cases) and you refused to answer (probably because you dont even know the meaning of the term), but are now claiming that you CAN do. Anyhow im done here. the rest of whatever im post will be up in a bit.

Originally posted by Newjak
Does it matter?

The point is for you to prove WBH is what 10 times stronger than any other version of Hulk, while I'm trying to prove that isn't true.

From that point on it doesn't matter how I argue, unless I'm missing something. And here was my reply. I'm going to prove WBH is not 10 times stronger than another version.

Whether I did that completely ignoring your posts or doing nothing but reciting them didn't matter. I was proving something.

And this is in response to your claim of needing another post. Which apparently you only need because you decided to blow an extra post on your opening.

So I see no reason to give you another post because of that.

Originally posted by Starscream M
this is some of the best predebate banter I've witnessed....naija's posts are just dripping with acrimonious condescension

Lol...let's wait for Newjack.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...let's wait for Newjack. Why do you consistently misspell my name.

I'll have my rebuttal posted within the next 2-3 days.

Wait... I don't understand. You guys are debating a certain topic, being that of WBH's strength. So the burden of proof is on whoever made that claim. One person is trying to prove it, while the other is debunking or disproving it. So isn't disproving something in effect proving something else when it's either an IS or ISN'T debate?

One side is proving a positive and one side is proving a negative.

If Newjak's arguments are convincing enough, then he will have disproven/proven that WBH isn't 10x stronger than any other incarnation of Hulk. It's not like there's a third option here. He either is or he isn't.



Very nice first post by the way Naija!

Originally posted by Newjak
Why do you consistently misspell my name.
He is craver.

newjak, i have absolutely no idea why you're entertaining or responding in anyway at all to carver and his ridiculous pestering. he has absolutely nothing to do with this so i'd suggest putting him on ignore. his trolling here and his cheerleading is pathetic. i commend you for not having reported it. yet.

as far as any extra posts--i see naj's point, but in bz's and tournaments that is not generally how things are handled. bz's are supposed to be a little more open to give and take, but a set number of posts is agreed on and how they are used is up to the poster. you're right naj, it's not always fair and it really sucks if someone waits til the end to sneak in a last word and you get no chance to rebut. it's happened to me more than once....

trust your case will be strong enough to overcome the recency effect.

nice opening btw--nj will have his hands full.

Originally posted by leonidas
newjak, i have absolutely no idea why you're entertaining or responding in anyway at all to carver and his ridiculous pestering. he has absolutely nothing to do with this so i'd suggest putting him on ignore. his trolling here and his cheerleading is pathetic. i commend you for not having reported it. yet.

as far as any extra posts--i see naj's point, but in bz's and tournaments that is not generally how things are handled. bz's are supposed to be a little more open to give and take, but a set number of posts is agreed on and how they are used is up to the poster. you're right naj, it's not always fair and it really sucks if someone waits til the end to sneak in a last word and you get no chance to rebut. it's happened to me more than once....
It's kind of entertaining to some degree, and it's kind motivating. Besides I don't report people on this site ever. They don't really bother me that much.

As for the extra post, I had given Naj a couple of alternatives an opening post from each of us given to the a Judge to post and open the match. I was even willing to give him the extra post until I learned he only wanted it because he had decided to blow 4 of his posts in his opening statement. He didn't have to do that. He chose to do that.

His statement that he had to be the one to set the grounds for the debate was totally false. It's not my fault he decided to post first nor is it my fault he decided he had to do that. I told him as much a couple of times already that he didn't have to. Gave him a decent alternative yet he went ahead with it anyways.

At this point I don't want him to get the extra post on sheer principle of the matter. He didn't have to make a 4 post opening and therefore he shouldn't get awarded an extra post because of it.

That's my stance on the matter.

Many of naija's scans don't work.

Originally posted by leonidas
newjak, i have absolutely no idea why you're entertaining or responding in anyway at all to carver and his ridiculous pestering. he has absolutely nothing to do with this so i'd suggest putting him on ignore. his trolling here and his cheerleading is pathetic. i commend you for not having reported it. yet.

as far as any extra posts--i see naj's point, but in bz's and tournaments that is not generally how things are handled. bz's are supposed to be a little more open to give and take, but a set number of posts is agreed on and how they are used is up to the poster. you're right naj, it's not always fair and it really sucks if someone waits til the end to sneak in a last word and you get no chance to rebut. it's happened to me more than once....

trust your case will be strong enough to overcome the recency effect.

nice opening btw--nj will have his hands full.

thanks. its no worries, i honestly dont even see it as a disadvantage anymore since I believe i have a particularly strong case and in my years of college debating, going first did have its benefits.

lol Oh and pay no attention to Carver, btw,are all my scans working for you?

Originally posted by Naija boy
thanks. its no worries, i honestly dont even see it as a disadvantage anymore since I believe i have a particularly strong case and in my years of college debating, going first did have its benefits.

lol Oh and pay no attention to Carver, btw,are all my scans working for you? I clicked on 4 randomly, only 1 worked.

hmmm photobucket is acting a fool again. Is image shack any better? Or does anyone know how to fix photobucket problems?

Originally posted by Naija boy
hmmm photobucket is acting a fool again. Is image shack any better? Or does anyone know how to fix photobucket problems?
You are just copying them from a text file it seems.

For example this wouldn't work

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/...kisweaker-1.jpg

while this would work

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/BannerdescribesWWHasstrongestHulktheirhaseverbeen.jpg

^thanks. Mods is there a way I can edit the links so they work?

Originally posted by Naija boy
^thanks. Mods is there a way I can edit the links so they work?
You can ask them to edit it.

Originally posted by leonidas
newjak, i have absolutely no idea why you're entertaining or responding in anyway at all to carver and his ridiculous pestering. he has absolutely nothing to do with this so i'd suggest putting him on ignore. his trolling here and his cheerleading is pathetic. i commend you for not having reported it. yet.

as far as any extra posts--i see naj's point, but in bz's and tournaments that is not generally how things are handled. bz's are supposed to be a little more open to give and take, but a set number of posts is agreed on and how they are used is up to the poster. you're right naj, it's not always fair and it really sucks if someone waits til the end to sneak in a last word and you get no chance to rebut. it's happened to me more than once....

trust your case will be strong enough to overcome the recency effect.

nice opening btw--nj will have his hands full.

Leo, you have had issues with me ever since I pointed your hate for Gladiator out. You have me on ignore so stop bringing up my name and stop worrying about what conversation I have with other posters. Use the ignore fiction you have set up for me and again, don't worry about what I say to any poster on this site. We both established that we don't like each other and I two stepped through my apt when I found out you put me on ignore. Moral of story is...get off my sack.

pretty sure this thread is in some part due to carver sullying the great name of the incredible hulk, and LEONIDAS is just telling others to kick you down a pit whenever you start talking biscuits

Originally posted by carver9
Leo, you have had issues with me ever since I pointed your hate for Gladiator out. You have me on ignore so stop bringing up my name and stop worrying about what conversation I have with other posters. Use the ignore fiction you have set up for me and again, don't worry about what I say to any poster on this site. We both established that we don't like each other and I two stepped through my apt when I found out you put me on ignore. Moral of story is...get off my sack.



yeah, gladiator--THAT's where the problems started.... it's not that i don't like you carver--i don't 'not like people' electronically--that's just dumb. i just have no respect for your opinions on this site and the reasons have been repeatedly documented by pr and many others. nor do i think it's your place to stick your nose into this bz at all--iow--stop piggy-backing on naj's sack. the way you go on i'd have thought YOU had accepted the bz challenge.

Leonidas has gotten a whole lot feistier of late

Originally posted by leonidas


yeah, gladiator--THAT's where the problems started.... it's not that i don't like you carver--i don't 'not like people' electronically--that's just dumb. i just have no respect for your opinions on this site and the reasons have been repeatedly documented by pr and many others. nor do i think it's your place to stick your nose into this bz at all--iow--stop piggy-backing on naj's sack. the way you go on i'd have thought YOU had accepted the bz challenge.

Stop replying to me. Use your ignore function and reply and worry about what other individuals have to say. Me and Newjack have been debating for a long time, if he has something to tell me, he will tell me like he has done before.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Leonidas has gotten a whole lot feistier of late

or the regulars have gotten a whole lot more irritating....?

Originally posted by psycho gundam
pretty sure this thread is in some part due to carver sullying the great name of the incredible hulk, and LEONIDAS is just telling others to kick you down a pit whenever you start talking biscuits

a near perfect translation of my innermost thoughts pg.

Originally posted by leonidas
or the regulars have gotten a whole lot more irritating....? I'm gonna go with it's you.

Originally posted by carver9
Stop replying to me. Use your ignore function and reply and worry about what other individuals have to say. Me and Newjack have been debating for a long time, if he has something to tell me, he will tell me like he has done before. Ok you smell

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm gonna go with it's you.

yeah, probably. sneer

but seriously: "you smell"? way to take him down.

Originally posted by leonidas
yeah, probably. sneer

but seriously: "you smell"? way to take him down. It's carver man, anything I could say has already been said.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Leonidas has gotten a whole lot feistier of late Getting irritable in his old age.

Nice

When Is This Damn Thing Starting??

It has started check the top of the forum

Ok so since many of the links I put up are not working,I've talked with badabing and he suggested simply reposting my opening in a new thread with working links while he would erase the old one. Is that agreeable Newjack?