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There have Been endless topics of the most powerful Sith Lords but that's almost always addressing personal power as in their mastery of the dark side. That's important of course but it's not the only thing that matters. Personal intelligence, the forces you command, your overall goals and ideas - these too are important.

\So my question to you all is this. Which Sith throughout SW history were the greatest threats to life and/or the Republic and Jedi?

I'm looking for at least three or so choices but feel free to list however many you wish. Also explain your reasoning please.

I'd figure that the Sith who actually managed to destroy the Republic and Jedi would be the biggest threat. He also commanded the largest, most powerful military. But after him... Vitiate, for his sheer power. And then... Krayt, for almost destroying the Republic and Jedi.

Vitiate. Sidious was a threat to democracy and the Jedi, Vitiate was a threat to every living thing in the galaxy.

If we're doing that, then Vitiate, Nihilus, and... is Abeloth all in to extinction and stuff?

Onimi. Not a Sith but Force sensitive nevertheless.

-The Sith Emperor/Darth Vitiate: He was stronger in the Force than Revan, who was the most powerful jedi of the time. Also, his plans to consume all living things and the Force, leaving the universe an empty void, makes him very dangerous.

-Darth Nihilus: He cared for very little. He had incredible and was consumed by a need to feed on the Force. He was adept in many different aspects of the Force. He had access to several Sith secrets of extreme power.

-Darth Sidious: He was a both strong in the Force and a political genius. He was able to gain control of the Republic thanks to these skills. He outwitted his master, Darth Tenebrous, and succeeded in destroying the present Jedi Order. He also succeeded in existing after his initial death and endangering the Republic and Jedi Order of that time.

Nihilus: The galaxy was nothing but lunch for him.

I'm looking for at least three or so choices but feel free to list however many you wish. Also explain your reasoning please.http://www.infoocean.info/avatar4.jpg

Irek Ismaren. Later assumed name of Lord Nyax.

As a child his brain was cybernetically enhanced allowing him to mind control droids. At that time he attempted to use Eye of Palpatine to dominate the galaxy by controlling mind of the ship. Later having his brain seriously damaged was put in stasis and after horrible experiments he became almost 3 meters tall, his Force power was enormously imbued by the implants in his head and he had 8 lightsabers attached directly to his body: 3 on each head and one from each knee.

He got free after Yuuzhan Vong occupied Corruscant. Unlike other Jedi, he didn't have trouble tearing Vong apart. His ability to control minds of others was so huge that it took combined effort from three powerful Jedi: Luke, Mara and Tahiri to resist him. Luke in terms of Force power was weak at that time and, if he was alone, there would be fair chance of him becoming his puppet. All three engaged him in lightsaber combat simultaneously and couldn't penetrate his multiple saber defense. A Yuuzhan Vong admired his strength and, yet, saw that his moves did not have sequences, that with training he would become even stronger.

Moreover, he tapped into Force Nexus and after was able to levitate and surround himself by Force storm, while Luke and his companions could use same Nexus just to throw a few more stones around.
Basically, he was described as unstoppable. Had there been other circumstances, who knows what threat he could pose to the galaxy.
The single fact that Luke was brought to him by Force visions already proves that it was a serious threat that rippled the Force with alarm.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'd figure that the Sith who actually managed to destroy the Republic and Jedi would be the biggest threat. He also commanded the largest, most powerful military. But after him... Vitiate, for his sheer power. And then... Krayt, for almost destroying the Republic and Jedi.

My thoughts as well.

I'm surprised no one said Darth Bandon

Other choice would be Marka Ragnos for being "the most powerful of the most powerful of the most powerful..."

And of course, lets not forget this guy

Originally posted by axel_jovan

Other choice would be Marka Ragnos for being "the most powerful of the most powerful of the most powerful..."


And also spent most of his effort crushing sith rivals. He didn't do much outside the Sith Empire.

Originally posted by Arhael
Onimi. Not a Sith but Force sensitive nevertheless.

In that case Im gna piss everyone off and say: The Son

Originally posted by Arhael
Irek Ismaren. Later assumed name of Lord Nyax.

As a child his brain was cybernetically enhanced allowing him to mind control droids. At that time he attempted to use Eye of Palpatine to dominate the galaxy by controlling mind of the ship. Later having his brain seriously damaged was put in stasis and after horrible experiments he became almost 3 meters tall, his Force power was enormously imbued by the implants in his head and he had 8 lightsabers attached directly to his body: 3 on each head and one from each knee.

He got free after Yuuzhan Vong occupied Corruscant. Unlike other Jedi, he didn't have trouble tearing Vong apart. His ability to control minds of others was so huge that it took combined effort from three powerful Jedi: Luke, Mara and Tahiri to resist him. Luke in terms of Force power was weak at that time and, if he was alone, there would be fair chance of him becoming his puppet. All three engaged him in lightsaber combat simultaneously and couldn't penetrate his multiple saber defense. A Yuuzhan Vong admired his strength and, yet, saw that his moves did not have sequences, that with training he would become even stronger.

Moreover, he tapped into Force Nexus and after was able to levitate and surround himself by Force storm, while Luke and his companions could use same Nexus just to throw a few more stones around.
Basically, he was described as unstoppable. Had there been other circumstances, who knows what threat he could pose to the galaxy.
The single fact that Luke was brought to him by Force visions already proves that it was a serious threat that rippled the Force with alarm.

Nyax gets no love on this forum. He was badass. I'd like to see how he handled Palpatines force lightening.

Propbably because trying to stick as many lightsabers on a character does not make him intresting... And no he is not nearly the biggest threat to the galaxy. Anyway, it's Palpatine. He was the only one who destroyed the Jedi and the Republic. Krayt is probably second.

The correct answer is still Vitiate.

Originally posted by ares834
Propbably because trying to stick as many lightsabers on a character does not make him intresting....

Bias>logic/feats?
Not that I think he was the biggest danger to the galaxy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The correct answer is still Vitiate.

Well it depends on what you mean by "greatest threat". Vitate's goal was likely the worst, but Palpatine was far closer to victory and held far more power. So I'd say he was the bigger threat.

It's like in comics, I'd say Darkseid is a bigger threat than Galactus.

Originally posted by Vorpal Ruin
Bias>logic/feats?
Not that I think he was the biggest danger to the galaxy.

My bad. Thought you meant people didn't like him.

What Ares said...

But that's what I said. Can't get no respect...

Sorry.

What Lucien said...

Marka Ragnos posed the biggest threat. even stated by Grand Jedi Master Luke Skywalker or maybe kyle katarn, that if Marka Ragnos was ever ressurected back at his prime ALL JEDI EVERYWHERE OF ALL ERAS WILL DIE. and Darth Viliate trained and gain knowledge while under Marka Ragnos, and when Marka had no more to train Trenbrae nor had anymore use of him, he gave Trenbrae his Sith name and told him to go back to Naethema and become its ruler, Viliate cowtowed and obeyed without a second thought fearing for what the punishment would be for disobedience. that alone already determined who was the most powerful Sith lord and biggest threat to the Jedi and even the Republic.

I don't care about force drain hax, for wound in the force bullcrap, if the Exile, who's nothing special, can stop Nihilus then he's not among the greatest threats.

I'd go with Sidious then Vitiate.

1. Vitiate (threat to everything; highly accomplished)
2. Nihilus (threat to everything; nearly brought the Jedi to extinction)
3. Sidious (threat to Jedi and Republic; highly accomplished)

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Marka Ragnos posed the biggest threat. even stated by Grand Jedi Master Luke Skywalker or maybe kyle katarn, that if Marka Ragnos was ever ressurected back at his prime ALL JEDI EVERYWHERE OF ALL ERAS WILL DIE. and Darth Viliate trained and gain knowledge while under Marka Ragnos, and when Marka had no more to train Trenbrae nor had anymore use of him, he gave Trenbrae his Sith name and told him to go back to Naethema and become its ruler, Viliate cowtowed and obeyed without a second thought fearing for what the punishment would be for disobedience. that alone already determined who was the most powerful Sith lord and biggest threat to the Jedi and even the Republic.
No, Marka Ragnos did nothing significant against the Republic and the Jedi.

Also, it has been explicitly stated in Revan novel that Vitiate surpassed all ancient Sith in power.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
1. Vitiate (threat to everything; highly accomplished)
2. Nihilus (threat to everything; nearly brought the Jedi to extinction)
3. Sidious (threat to Jedi and Republic; highly accomplished)


No, Marka Ragnos did nothing significant against the Republic and the Jedi.

Also, it has been explicitly stated in Revan novel that Vitiate surpassed all ancient Sith in power. Of Course Ragnos did Nothing to the Republic Destorying the Republic was of no significance to Him. And no Viliate did not Surpass Marka Ragnos nor did he Surpass Naga Sadow why? Viliate Trained under Marka Ragnos and even after his Sith Training was done when Viliate reached his Natural limit in Force power and Lightsaber Mastery he still didnt think for 1 minute to Challange Ragnos for Rullership of the Golden Sith empire, instead Ragnos gave Trenbrae his Sith name and granted him Rulership of Naethema and Sent him on his way, and Knowing Viliate as a Power hungry Will breaking Manipulating Dark Lord he wouldnt have listened to What Ragnos said but instead taking Rullership of the Golden Sith empire for himself. but that wasnt the case was it? Viliate feared Marka Ragnos's tremendous power Both Physically and In The Force. Viliate chose to cling a DYING Sith Empire Back to Life for the Great Galactic War and still got defeated by a Jedi Knight. Marka Ragnos Died by Old age and NO cause, Even in Old Body Ragnos instilled enough power to hold Rulership of the Golden Empire his whole life till the day he died. and as For Viliate not being more powerful then Naga Sadow why? Has Viliate Destoryed an entire Planets/Star sized Planets with a mere thought? No Naga Sadow did, Naga Sadow was being chased by half a Fleet of Cinnagar and half a fleet Republic Troops, and when they got near the 2 Planet sized Stars Naga Used a Unknown type of Solor flare with Sith Magic to Destory the Stars which Destoryed both the Cinnagar and Republic fleet following him. and if those were actual Planets with Sentient life on it that would have been Billions upon Billions of people dying at once plus the Cinnagar and Republic Fleet. Viliate was not capable of doing such feats with the Force which is the reason he didnt join the power struggle for Ruller of the Sith empire that Both Naga Sadow and Ludo Kreesh fought for. instead Viliate Uses Manipulation and Will breaking absorbtion Powers not naturally achieving the power himself. Plus another Fact that Naga Sadow also physically died by Old Age and no cause, same cant be said about Viliate. Naga Sadow instead suffered the Spritual caused by Freeden Nadd instead of getting physically killed. Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow are the 2 Greatest Rulers of the Sith In terms of Physical&Spiritual Power. AND WHERE DOES IT STATE THAT DARTH VILIATE SPURPASSED BOTH MARKA RAGNOS AND NAGA SADOW?

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Of Course Ragnos did Nothing to the Republic Destorying the Republic was of no significance to Him. And no Viliate did not Surpass Marka Ragnos nor did he Surpass Naga Sadow why? Viliate Trained under Marka Ragnos and even after his Sith Training was done when Viliate reached his Natural limit in Force power and Lightsaber Mastery he still didnt think for 1 minute to Challange Ragnos for Rullership of the Golden Sith empire, instead Ragnos gave Trenbrae his Sith name and granted him Rulership of Naethema and Sent him on his way, and Knowing Viliate as a Power hungry Will breaking Manipulating Dark Lord he wouldnt have listened to What Ragnos said but instead taking Rullership of the Golden Sith empire for himself. but that wasnt the case was it? Viliate feared Marka Ragnos's tremendous power Both Physically and In The Force. Viliate chose to cling a DYING Sith Empire Back to Life for the Great Galactic War and still got defeated by a Jedi Knight. Marka Ragnos Died by Old age and NO cause, Even in Old Body Ragnos instilled enough power to hold Rulership of the Golden Empire his whole life till the day he died. and as For Viliate not being more powerful then Naga Sadow why? Has Viliate Destoryed an entire Planets/Star sized Planets with a mere thought? No Naga Sadow did, Naga Sadow was being chased by half a Fleet of Cinnagar and half a fleet Republic Troops, and when they got near the 2 Planet sized Stars Naga Used a Unknown type of Solor flare with Sith Magic to Destory the Stars which Destoryed both the Cinnagar and Republic fleet following him. and if those were actual Planets with Sentient life on it that would have been Billions upon Billions of people dying at once plus the Cinnagar and Republic Fleet. Viliate was not capable of doing such feats with the Force which is the reason he didnt join the power struggle for Ruller of the Sith empire that Both Naga Sadow and Ludo Kreesh fought for. instead Viliate Uses Manipulation and Will breaking absorbtion Powers not naturally achieving the power himself. Plus another Fact that Naga Sadow also physically died by Old Age and no cause same cant be said about Viliate. Naga Sadow instead suffered the Spritual caused by Freeden Nadd instead of getting physically killed. Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow are the 2 Greatest Rulers of the Sith In terms of Physical&Spiritual Power. AND WHERE DOES IT STATE THAT DARTH VILIATE SPURPASSED BOTH MARKA RAGNOS AND NAGA SADOW?

No.

Killing 0 Jedi in the process.

Dying of old age is really impressive if you take down many strong foes first. Ragnos, while strong, never did anything that huge or created that great of a threat.

Nor was his military strong enough to take the Republic- it was that same military that Naga Sadow used to attack in the Great Hyperspace War, and actually lost in pretty short order.

Vitiate brought the Republic and the Jedi much closer to defeat and created much more destruction than anyone in the Old Sith Empire, as did Palpatine and Krayt.

Vitiate didn't simply 'cling to a dying Sith empire,' he took a splinter and turned it into something vastly stronger than the original, taking on the Republic on even terms for decades, something the original never did.

Originally posted by Q99
Killing 0 Jedi in the process.

Dying of old age is really impressive if you take down many strong foes first. Ragnos, while strong, never did anything that huge or created that great of a threat.

Nor was his military strong enough to take the Republic- it was that same military that Naga Sadow used to attack in the Great Hyperspace War, and actually lost in pretty short order.

Vitiate brought the Republic and the Jedi much closer to defeat and created much more destruction than anyone in the Old Sith Empire, as did Palpatine and Krayt.

Vitiate didn't simply 'cling to a dying Sith empire,' he took a splinter and turned it into something vastly stronger than the original, taking on the Republic on even terms for decades, something the original never did. FIRST you cant make a opinionated statement saying Ragnos killed 0 Jedi when you have no proof conserning that statement, and if you are one of those people that go by the ABSENCE of EVIDENCE is the EVIDENCE of ABSENCE then thats saying you have poor perception conserning undisclosed events in real life and about the series we are talking about now. Marka Ragnos's key plots and Important battles were not fully Detailed, but if you want to say Ragnos DIDNT defeat anyone Strong lets start with SIMUS, he was the previous Dark lord of the Sith before Ragnos and the Strongest One in his Time, AT LEAST BEFORE RAGNOS stepped into the picture, Ragnos fought SIMUS in a Sword duel NO HOLDS BARRED and the outcome for the end of that battle was Ragnos beheading SIMUS and bringing it back to the Dark Council as a example of his power and how little he needs to use it, and as for you SAYING HE KILLED NO JEDI? you have no proof of that as well, Marka Ragnos led RUTHLESS CAMPGAINS against HIS ENEMYS but WHO HIS ENEMYS WERE were NOT SPECIFIED, it was a METAPHORE saying Ragnos Killed ENEMYS of all kinds in his LIFETIME, that would include J.E.D.I.S but what J.E.D.I.S fell by his hand werent MENTIONED, Ragnos wouldnt have been able to continue as a Dark Lord Of The Sith if all he did was sit on the Throne killing any potential SITH THREATS.

Yes I can. There was zero Sith/Jedi contact at the time, the Hyperspace war was specifically noted to be first contact between the two and the Jedi had no knowledge of the Sith Empire.



Ok, yea, beating your old boss is Sith standard-operating-procedure. It doesn't make one a stand-out of all time among them.



What we do know is- After defeating them all, taking over their territory, and consolidating Sith forces... those combined Sith forces were weak enough that they lost to the Republic under Naga Sadow about a year later.

So obviously, his raw military might wasn't the most threatening.



Sure, potential Sith threats... but you know what? Vitiate stayed on top against potential Sith threats for longer, and his potential Sith threats included badasses like Revan.


And taking out potential sith threats from within simply does not make one into one of the sith that were the largest threats of all time.

Originally posted by Q99

Vitiate didn't simply 'cling to a dying Sith empire,' he took a splinter and turned it into something vastly stronger than the original, taking on the Republic on even terms for decades, something the original never did.

This isn't very accurate. Vitiate's Empire had over 1,300 years to rebuild and prepare itself for war, in virtual obscurity and without conflict. Meanwhile, the Republic and Jedi Order were on the verge of extinction thanks to Revan and his war, followed by the Sith Triumvirate. They were a shell of their former selves when the Sith Empire attacked. Hardly an even battle.

Originally posted by Based
I don't care about force drain hax, for wound in the force bullcrap, if the Exile, who's nothing special, can stop Nihilus then he's not among the greatest threats.

I'd go with Sidious then Vitiate.

Yes he is, thanks to his unqiue ability. And besides, the Exile was no slouch either.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Ragnos seems like a joke in comparison to Vitiate. The latter is (canonically) a contendor for the spot of most powerful Sith Lord in history; competing with Plagueis and Sidious.

Not any more I'm afraid.

'According to Ian Ryan, lead writer of TOR Enyclopedia, the guide is "written entirely in-universe." This is confirmed in both the latest issue of Star Wars Insider and the intro page of the encyclopedia itself.'

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
FIRST you cant make a opinionated statement saying Ragnos killed 0 Jedi when you have no proof conserning that statement, and if you are one of those people that go by the ABSENCE of EVIDENCE is the EVIDENCE of ABSENCE then thats saying you have poor perception conserning undisclosed events in real life and about the series we are talking about now. Marka Ragnos's key plots and Important battles were not fully Detailed, but if you want to say Ragnos DIDNT defeat anyone Strong lets start with SIMUS, he was the previous Dark lord of the Sith before Ragnos and the Strongest One in his Time, AT LEAST BEFORE RAGNOS stepped into the picture, Ragnos fought SIMUS in a Sword duel NO HOLDS BARRED and the outcome for the end of that battle was Ragnos beheading SIMUS and bringing it back to the Dark Council as a example of his power and how little he needs to use it, and as for you SAYING HE KILLED NO JEDI? you have no proof of that as well, Marka Ragnos led RUTHLESS CAMPGAINS against HIS ENEMYS but WHO HIS ENEMYS WERE were NOT SPECIFIED, it was a METAPHORE saying Ragnos Killed ENEMYS of all kinds in his LIFETIME, that would include J.E.D.I.S but what J.E.D.I.S fell by his hand werent MENTIONED, Ragnos wouldnt have been able to continue as a Dark Lord Of The Sith if all he did was sit on the Throne killing any potential SITH THREATS. You are just ADOARBLE.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not any more I'm afraid.

'According to Ian Ryan, lead writer of TOR Enyclopedia, the guide is "written entirely in-universe." This is confirmed in both the latest issue of Star Wars Insider and the intro page of the encyclopedia itself.'
This is why I used the word "contender". To be honest, their is no clear answer. But it can be logically deduced on the basis of canonical sources that Vitiate is being promoted as a top tier Sith Lord along with Plagueis and Sidious.

I have noticed that many Star Wars authors refrain from officially ranking characters in terms of power by themselves. They leave this matter up to personal interpretation or convey their intentions by using in-universe approach.

Originally posted by Q99
Yes I can. There was zero Sith/Jedi contact at the time, the Hyperspace war was specifically noted to be first contact between the two and the Jedi had no knowledge of the Sith Empire.



Ok, yea, beating your old boss is Sith standard-operating-procedure. It doesn't make one a stand-out of all time among them.



What we do know is- After defeating them all, taking over their territory, and consolidating Sith forces... those combined Sith forces were weak enough that they lost to the Republic under Naga Sadow about a year later.

So obviously, his raw military might wasn't the most threatening.



Sure, potential Sith threats... but you know what? Vitiate stayed on top against potential Sith threats for longer, and his potential Sith threats included badasses like Revan.


And taking out potential sith threats from within simply does not make one into one of the sith that were the largest threats of all time. Yeah THE GREAT HYPERSPACE WAR was the FIRST TIME the SITH ever ATTACKED THE REPUBLIC. YOUR statement about THE Sith never having CONTACT with the Jedi before then is a unkowingly Contradiction, Because AJUNTA PALL was the first DARK LORD OF the Sith and Greatest Sith Blade Master and one of the FIRST to defect from the Jedi Ways, and after reaching the peak of his power he was slain by J.E.D.I DURING A ASSAULT, Meaning he was killing and going to war with Jedi before the time of Marka Ragnos, and MARKA RAGNOS is a descendant of the FIRST DARK JEDI DEFECTORS. your Satement about killing Sith Masters as a Common Standard was right But SIMUS was the most powerful in his TIME and yet got disposed of by Ragnos the first 3 minutes after the fight took place. and about VILIATE STAYING ON THE T.O.P? dont make me laugh, TRENBRAE trained under Ragnos as a Sith APPRENTICE which is how he learned how to TURN HIS ENEMYS AGAINST EACH OTHER and BREAK the WILL'S OF OTHERS, and already stated by Master Aren Kae Marka Ragnos knew how to Turn his enemys against each other. and after Trenbrae got his Sith Name Darth Viliate, Ragnos sent him on his way back to Naethema because he had no more use of him nor no more to train him, and as you already know Viliate is a POWER HUNGRY MANIPULATING WILL BREAKING dark lord and for one minute he still didnt attempt to Take the Golden Sith empire for himself instead Cowtowed in fear and obeyed. And if you read Marka Ragnos's B.I.O then you would already know that Viliate approached Ragnos while he was sitting on his Throne, attempted to break his will but failed, and RAGNOS replyed to the attempt with LAUGHER calling him a BRAVE YOUNG YOUTH.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
your Satement about killing Sith Masters as a Common Standard was right But SIMUS was the most powerful in his TIME and yet got disposed of by Ragnos the first 3 minutes after the fight took place.
Simus was more noted for his nobility and wisdom rather then prowess in combat.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
and about VILIATE STAYING ON THE T.O.P? dont make me laugh, TRENBRAE trained under Ragnos as a Sith APPRENTICE which is how he learned how to TURN HIS ENEMYS AGAINST EACH OTHER and BREAK the WILL'S OF OTHERS, and already stated by Master Aren Kae Marka Ragnos knew how to Turn his enemys against each other. and after Trenbrae got his Sith Name Darth Viliate, Ragnos sent him on his way back to Naethema because he had no more use of him nor no more to train him, and as you already know Viliate is a POWER HUNGRY MANIPULATING WILL BREAKING dark lord and for one minute he still didnt attempt to Take the Golden Sith empire for himself instead Cowtowed in fear and obeyed. And if you read Marka Ragnos's B.I.O then you would already know that Viliate approached Ragnos while he was sitting on his Throne, attempted to break his will but failed, and RAGNOS replyed to the attempt with LAUGHER calling him a BRAVE YOUNG YOUTH.
Please provide evidence of all the BS that you wrote here.

Ragnos acknowledged Vitiate as "one of the most powerful Sith he had ever met." And Vitiate was just 13 years old during this encounter. The latter (Vitiate) became far more powerful much later on.

You need to snap out of your Ragnos' worshipping.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
And the Person who Made the Statement about Viliate being Stronger then any Sith before him was None other then Lord Scourge wasnt it, of COURSE a SITH PUPPET will call his PUPPET MASTER the GREATEST BEING in the UNIVERSE, if Not then he Will surely DIE. a Star Wars Creator didnt State That, Lord Scourge did Since his Will nearly got Broken upon looking at Darth Viliate's Eyes. And i realize how RIGHT i am Marka Ragnos Was defeated by NO ONE along with NAGA SADOW while there were ALIVE, VILIATE WAS DEFEATED BY 1 J.E.D.I K.N.I.G.H.T.
No. This was Darth Nyriss.

Also, Lord Scourge was far from being a pushover himself. He has killed hundreds of Sith in combat. Do not underestimate him.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic And i realize how RIGHT i am Marka Ragnos Was defeated by NO ONE along with NAGA SADOW while there were ALIVE, VILIATE WAS DEFEATED BY 1 J.E.D.I K.N.I.G.H.T.
Marka Ragnos was lucky that he never faced a powerful Jedi in person. The Jedi Knight that you are talking about is arguably comparable to Luke Skywalker in skill and power.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
AND besides WHEN IT COMES TO PHYSICAL PROWESS Naga Sadow will kill Viliate in the First 11 minutes,
Physical prowess means jack; Vitiate is immensely powerful in the Force. He may snap or break Sadow's neck before the latter even charges towards him.

Powerhouses failed to touch Vitiate in combat. Sadow does not holds a candle in comparison.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Remember Naga Sadow wielded a Blade that was So Tainted it counted as a uncurablle poison and once someone gets Cut by it Dies 1 Hour Later
Big deal? He improved the potency of his blade with Sith Sorcery.

Once again! Naga Sadow is much more noted for his proficiency in Sith Sorcery. He is far from being a powerhouse otherwise. The Sith during his time were much more in to Sith Sorcery rather then focusing on improving their understanding of the Force. This is why the Jedi had such an upperhand over the ancients.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Simus was more noted for his nobility rather then prowess in combat.


Please provide evidence of all the BS that you wrote here.

Ragnos acknowledged Vitiate as "one of the most powerful Sith he had ever met." And Vitiate was just 13 years old during this time. The latter (Vitiate) became far more powerful much later on.

And read what I have posted. It may snap you out of your Ragnos' worshipping. IM NOT WORSHIPPING a FICTIONAL CHARACTER, just stating who was The GREATEST DARK LORD OF THE Sith. and Since you just said read what i have posted, i have read everything EVERYONE has posted that went AGAINST MARKA RAGNOS and NAGA SADOW which is the REASON I REPLYED with FACTS, Read&LOOK UP what i Posted about BOTH MARKA RAGNOS and NAGA SADOW and "your" PROOF will be THERE. AND DARTH NYRISIS stated that from HER VIEW of How many ith SHE served BEFORE VILIATE, SHE was just another Puppet/Toy of the Dark Coucnil that later got disposed of by Revan, Puppet's opinions dont matter.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
IM NOT WORSHIPPING a FICTIONAL CHARACTER, just stating who was The GREATEST DARK LORD OF THE Sith. and Since you just said read what i have posted, i have read everything EVERYONE has posted that went AGAINST MARKA RAGNOS and NAGA SADOW which is the REASON I REPLYED with FACTS, Read&LOOK UP what i Posted about BOTH MARKA RAGNOS and NAGA SADOW and "your" PROOF will be THERE. AND DARTH NYRISIS stated that from HER VIEW of How many ith SHE served BEFORE VILIATE, SHE was just another Puppet/Toy of the Dark Coucnil that later got disposed of by Revan, Puppet's opinions dont matter.
For your kind information, you need to support your arguments with canonical sources. You have yet to do this.

Also, I am CORRECTING you on several misconceptions that you have harbored about both Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow. Your liking of these characters is your personal matter but your ridiculous arguments in their favor will get you nowhere but rather reduce your credibility.

Also, Darth Nyriss was no one's puppet. She was very cunning and powerful. And she was planning to eliminate Vitiate; she was this much independent.

And so what if Nyriss got disposed off by Revan? You think that Revan was a joke or something?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
For your kind information, you need to support your arguments with canonical sources. You have yet to do this.

Also, I am CORRECTING you on several misconceptions that you have harbored about both Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow. Your liking of these characters is your personal matter but your ridiculous arguments in their favor will get you nowhere but rather reduce your credibility.

Also, Darth Nyriss was no one's puppet. She was very cunning and powerful. And she was planning to eliminate Vitiate; she was this much independent.

And so what if Nyriss got disposed off by Revan? You think that Revan was a joke or something? WHY dont YOU Just Read Marka Ragnos's and Naga Sadow's Biography? most of what i said is also there, my credibility is going NO WHERE DOWN, and you think "YOUR" CORRECTING ME? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! dont make me belittle what little Intelligence you THINK you may have, THINK WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO before you Text it. and No a fully Reborn Revan is No small fry but he Turned NYRISS'S own power against her and rushed to Viliate's room, thats disposing of someone in a short matters notice if you didnt learn that already.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
WHY dont YOU Just Read Marka Ragnos's and Naga Sadow's Biography? most of what i said is also there, my credibility is going NO WHERE DOWN, and you think "YOUR" CORRECTING ME? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! dont make me belittle what little Intelligence you THINK you may have, THINK WHO YOU ARE TALKING TO before you Text it.
You think that I have never done any reading on these two characters?

Try to figure out that why several members (including me) have disagreed with you. Maybe you will realize your misconceptions in the process.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
and No a fully Reborn Revan is No small fry but he Turned NYRISS'S own power against her and rushed to Viliate's room, thats disposing of someone in a short matters notice if you didnt learn that already.
It shows Revan's power. He was reputed to be the Jedi Order's greatest champion for some solid reasons.

Originally posted by thisforumisdead
This isn't very accurate. Vitiate's Empire had over 1,300 years to rebuild and prepare itself for war, in virtual obscurity and without conflict. Meanwhile, the Republic and Jedi Order were on the verge of extinction thanks to Revan and his war, followed by the Sith Triumvirate. They were a shell of their former selves when the Sith Empire attacked. Hardly an even battle.
The Republic had around 300 years to rebuild itself prior to war with the True Sith Empire.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You think that I have never done any reading on these two characters?

Also, try to figure out that why several members (including me) have disagreed with you. Maybe you will realize your misconceptions in the process.


It shows Revan's power. He was reputed to be the Jedi Order's greatest champion. IT dosent Matter how many People disagree with me, My Aim was Never getting other opinions to agree with Factual. and Maybe you will realize who "your" talking to in the future along with realizing everyone else's Misconceptions and unknowing Contradictions Including "YOURS" the only Reason you even support Darth Viliate's Power, whether or Not you admit it, is Because The books reffering to Viliate went into more detail about His Power and Capabilitys, they didnt do the same with Ragnos if they did it would have tookin to Long to make the Book reffering to Ragnos they had other plans. He was the APPRENTICE of Marka Ragnos, what do you expect of the Most Powerful Sith lord's APPRENTICE even says so on Marka's Biography KNOWN APPRENTICES, Trenbrae/Darth Viliate. and the Meanings to BOTH words MARKA and RAGNOS both MEAN. ALL POWERFUL, THE MOST POWERFUL OF MOST POWERFULS

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
IT dosent Matter how many People disagree with me, My Aim was Never getting other opinions to agree with Factual.
Your need to PROVE your information first before you declare it to be FACTUAL. You are arguing for APPLES with ORANGES.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
and Maybe you will realize who "your" talking to in the future along with realizing everyone else's Misconceptions
Let me guess! You have ancient mindset. Hello! Star Wars lore have made considerable progress.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
and unknowing Contradictions Including "YOURS" the only Reason you even support Darth Viliate's Power, whether or Not you admit it, is Because The books reffering to Viliate went into more detail about His Power and Capabilitys.
Darth Nyriss revealed that Vitiate surpassed all ancient Sith Lords in power.

Even in the recently released Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia, Vitiate has been once again acknowledged as the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
He was the APPRENTICE of Marka Ragnos, what do you expect of the Most Powerful Sith lord'S APPRENTICE even says so on Marka's Biography KNOWN APPRENTICES, Trenbrae/Darth Viliate.
First of all, it is unclear at the moment if Vitiate was even a proper apprentice of Marka Ragnos because Vitiate spent most of his time in ruling Nathema and exploring Sith Lore on his own.

Also, even if the claim of Vitiate being one of the apprentices of Marka Ragnos is accepted; it proves nothing. It is just an indication that Vitiate received formal Sith training from Marka Ragnos.

Apprentices can surpass their masters in power. And this has happened many times.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Your need to PROVE your information first before you declare it to be FACTUAL. You are arguing for APPLES with ORANGES.


Let me guess! You have ancient mindset. Hello! Star Wars lore have made considerable progress.


Darth Nyriss revealed that Vitiate surpassed all ancient Sith Lords in power.

Even in the recently released Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia, Vitiate has been once again acknowledged as the most powerful Sith Lord in history.


First of all, it is unclear at the moment if Vitiate was even a proper apprentice of Marka Ragnos because Vitiate spent most of his time in ruling Nathema and exploring Sith Lore on his own.

Also, even if the claim of Vitiate being one of the apprentices of Marka Ragnos is accepted; it proves nothing. It is just an indication that Vitiate received formal Sith training from Marka Ragnos.

Apprentices can surpass their masters in power. And this has happened many times. YOU just proved my P.O.I.NT and Contradicted yours. you arent sure whether to say Viliate was a former apprentice of Marka Ragnos, and what you said about Apprentices Surpassing their Masters is True, and Since Viliate was Ragnos's apprentice why didnt he surpass Ragnos and become Both Ruler of Naethema and the Golden Empire? because he wasnt Strong enough and he knew this which is why he Isolated himself in the Studys of Riturals and Research so that 1 day he will Succeed Ragnos as a Dark Lord Of The Sith but NEVER in actuallity. looks like "your" the one arguing over apple Viliate didnt Surpass Ragnos in Physical power nor Force power since he learned it all From Ragnos. Thats a Fact that has proof to come along with it, but its up to you to investigate what i have said in order for you to Find Truth in it or else you are going to be here for the next hour Asking Questions and making smart Remarks and getting NO Answers. and Viliate is Acknowledged as ONE of the most powerful in History, a Contender for most powerful.

Being someone's master doesn't mean they're stronger. In fact, doesn't that imply Ragnos's master was stronger still? And the most powerful Sith ever would be the strongest of the original 12?



And the Sith Empire had centuries pre-hyperspace war with no noted major competitors without getting close to that, and the Republic had literally centuries post-Revan/Triumvirate to rebuild, they weren't still weak when Vitiate struck.



I did, and that's why I rate several Sith as posing a greater threat than him. He was a strong ruler with local ambitions, and local ambitions and greatest threat are not synonyms.

The five most militarily successful-dangerous Sith were Sidious, Krayt, Ruin, Vitiate, and Revan.

The two Sith that were the most dangerous in terms of force threat were Vitiate and Nihilus.

The three Sith that were the most threatening in terms of plagues or similar things were Muur, Maladi, and Drear.

Originally posted by Q99
And the Sith Empire had centuries pre-hyperspace war with no noted major competitors without getting close to that, and the Republic had literally centuries post-Revan/Triumvirate to rebuild, they weren't still weak when Vitiate struck.



I did, and that's why I rate several Sith as posing a greater threat than him. He was a strong ruler with local ambitions, and local ambitions and greatest threat are not synonyms.

The five most militarily successful-dangerous Sith were Sidious, Krayt, Ruin, Vitiate, and Revan.

The two Sith that were the most dangerous in terms of force threat were Vitiate and Nihilus.

The three Sith that were the most threatening in terms of plagues or similar things were Muur, Maladi, and Drear. Basicly you are a Closed MINDED person arguing about your Favorite Characters Vs THE GREATEST Sith lords, this is going no where since you are not Open MINDED LIKE i am and all the Factual Messages Conserning Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow proved that, Stop arguing twords this subject and move on. Talking to a Closed Minded person is NO different from talking to a Brick Wall, NOTHING GETS THROUGH

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Basicly you are a Closed MINDED person arguing about your Favorite Characters Vs THE GREATEST Sith lords, this is going no where since you are not Open MINDED LIKE i am and all the Factual Messages Conserning Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow proved that, Stop arguing twords this subject and move on. Talking to a Closed Minded person is NO different from talking to a Brick Wall, NOTHING GETS THROUGH

Uh, are you sure you aren't talking about yourself?


I mean, you haven't actually said what Ragnos or Sadow did that's more threatening than these other Sith.


When saying who's 'the greatest threat,' that's something that can be measured. More territory, more lives, bigger enemies defeated, longer wars, etc..

Originally posted by Q99
Uh, are you sure you aren't talking about yourself?


I mean, you haven't actually said what Ragnos or Sadow did that's more threatening than these other Sith.


When saying who's 'the greatest threat,' that's something that can be measured. More territory, more lives, bigger enemies defeated, longer wars, etc.. Of im not talking about MYSELF, i was just Sating the 2 Sith Marka Ragnos and Naga Sadow are the biggest Threats against the Jedi, and i said Even the Republic if Marka Made his Mission to Destroy the Republic but he never did so he count as a dormat threat for now at least. but Never the Less the 2 Most Powerful Sith Ragnos&Sadow. but biggest threats twords the REPUBLIC would have to Be Darth Bane Since he Destoryed the REPUBLIC once. and Biggest Threat Twords the Jedi Are Marka Ragnos Naga Sadow Tulak Hord. and i HAVE STATED what both Ragnos and Sadow are capable of I think you havent been reading the messages i posted, only disagreeing with Parts you dont like.

No, you're totally talking about yourself. You're describing what you're doing.



Even though one never faced the Jedi, and the other faced the Jedi and lost in under a year while other Sith killed far more and did decade-long campaigns where they were winning?

They aren't the biggest threats because one didn't even try and the other tried and failed, when others have tried and did much, much better.




... no he didn't, he destroyed the Sith of the time with the Thought Bomb, and started the Rule or Two, where one of his successors, Sidious, destroyed the Republic a thousand years later.




And I have stated what they actually did and how other people have done stuff that, in practice, ended up being bigger threats.

Which you are ignoring.

You cannot win an argument with ignoring, and you're doing a lot of ignoring.

You're just resorting to ad hominem, calling people close minding, because you know you can't win with facts.

Originally posted by Q99
No, you're totally talking about yourself. You're describing what you're doing.



Even though one never faced the Jedi, and the other faced the Jedi and lost in under a year while other Sith killed far more and did decade-long campaigns where they were winning?

They aren't the biggest threats because one didn't even try and the other tried and failed, when others have tried and did much, much better.




... no he didn't, he destroyed the Sith of the time with the Thought Bomb, and started the Rule or Two, where one of his successors, Sidious, destroyed the Republic a thousand years later.




And I have stated what they actually did and how other people have done stuff that, in practice, ended up being bigger threats.

Which you are ignoring.

You cannot win an argument with ignoring, and you're doing a lot of ignoring.

You're just resorting to ad hominem, calling people close minding, because you know you can't win with facts. I am winning with Facts, Marka Ragnos led ruthless campgains against his enemys, (which were enemys of all kinds including J.E.D.I and killed them. Marka Ragnos also Was Master of Trenbrae A.K.A Darth Viliate, the same master who taught him how to break the will of others, Turn his enemys against each other, and taught him in the use of Lightsaber mastery, defeated Sith Lord Simus with no difficulty, reined Unchallanged on the Sith Throne for Over 100 Years even though Backstabbing and Betrayal Rubs amuck in the Sith No one dared to seek his ire. Sith Such As Trenbrae (DARTH VILIATE) Naga Sadow feared him which IS a F.A.C.T and if you cant see that then im sorry. im not resorting to anything i havent been pushed in a corner and if you think so i guess thats "your" opinion Im Done Wasting my Time For Today i'll be back tommarrow

How the **** did Marka teach anybody how to fight with Lightsabers, I thought he never had access to them.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
YOU just proved my P.O.I.NT and Contradicted yours. you arent sure whether to say Viliate was a former apprentice of Marka Ragnos,
No. This claim (made by you originally) requires confirmation. So confirm this with a canonical source/reference.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
and what you said about Apprentices Surpassing their Masters is True, and Since Viliate was Ragnos's apprentice why didnt he surpass Ragnos and become Both Ruler of Naethema and the Golden Empire?
Real-world perspective: Vitiate is a much more recent entry in Star Wars lore then Marka Ragnos and the story of the latter has not been changed/retconned because too much literature was at stake.

So Vitiate's story has been canonically adjusted in this manner:

In-universe perspective: Vitiate did not participated in politics of the ancient Sith Empire during his rule over Nathema. This is the reason that why he did not acted against Marka Ragnos.

Please use common sense.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
because he wasnt Strong enough and he knew this which is why he Isolated himself in the Studys of Riturals and Research so that 1 day he will Succeed Ragnos as a Dark Lord Of The Sith but NEVER in actuallity. looks like "your" the one arguing over apple Viliate didnt Surpass Ragnos in Physical power nor Force power since he learned it all From Ragnos. Thats a Fact that has proof to come along with it, but its up to you to investigate what i have said in order for you to Find Truth in it or else you are going to be here for the next hour Asking Questions and making smart Remarks and getting NO Answers. and Viliate is Acknowledged as ONE of the most powerful in History, a Contender for most powerful.
Your "assumptions" (not factual information as you put) are BASELESS.

First learn to accept canon and then talk.

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
How the **** did Marka teach anybody how to fight with Lightsabers, I thought he never had access to them.
This guy seems to be making stuff about Ragnos. He has yet to cite a single source to verify his claims.

I shall note I have read the actual story with Marka Ragnos within the last month.

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
How the **** did Marka teach anybody how to fight with Lightsabers, I thought he never had access to them. Ragnos's empire had access to Lightsabers but chose to use the Traditional Sith Blades, it gives the Sith more a enjoyment cutting down their enemys with Sith Swords drenched in their Victims Blood.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No. This claim (made by you originally) requires confirmation. So confirm this with a canonical source/reference.


Real-world perspective: Vitiate is a much more recent entry in Star Wars lore then Marka Ragnos and the story of the latter has not been changed/retconned because too much literature was at stake.

So Vitiate's story has been canonically adjusted in this manner:

In-universe perspective: Vitiate did not participated in politics of the ancient Sith Empire during his rule over Nathema. This is the reason that why he did not acted against Marka Ragnos.

Please use common sense.


Your "assumptions" (not factual information as you put) are BASELESS.

First learn to accept canon and then talk.


This guy seems to be making stuff about Ragnos. He has yet to cite a single source to verify his claims. COMMON SENSE? you mean to tell me to use "Common Sense" when you have yet to know the definition of that very Word, im Not making anything Up and this is the last time i will say that. i dont believe false information nor Distribute it. Marka Ragnos was Trenbrae's Master and Even said so on Ragnos's biography. and In Ragnos's Biography he was Achknowledged as the Most P.O.W.E.R.F.U.L force user in both the J.E.D.I&S.I.T.H history he was never defeated in battle during his lifetime, and when Trenbrae approached the Sith throne Ragnos was sitting in, Ragnos was impressed by the young Trenbrae's power and ambition but NOT Impressed enough to take him as a THREAT out of his many Sith enemys, and in the end VILIATE sought out Training from Ragnos and after his training was completed he was declared Lord Viliate and Ruler of Nathema. Viliate in Terms of "NATURAL" Force&Physical Strength did not succeed Ragnos's and in later events Viliate Manipulated Most of the Other hiding Sith Lords into coming on his Planet so that he could Break their wills, which is a Big Achievement, but also he Begain to Feed off of their Life Force and Absorbed their Power through the Force, and even with that he didnt go down into the Jedi's History as their greatest Threat and Most powerful force user itself, ONLY RAGNOS did and even states that on his Biography, i dont feel like finding/reading the whole book again just to find a Fact that has been Proven and unknowingly proven to others.

That's your problem, you assume that if you believe it, it's not false.

It can be wrong even if you believe it. You can work off of bad sources or incorrect assumptions just like anyone else. You are not always right.



Palpatine is noted by Lucas to be the most powerful Sith ever.

And Anakin had the highest potential. And Luke reached the highest level.

Sorry, Ragnos was the strongest of his time, but he wasn't the strongest ever,



Of course, the kid was a kid at that point.

But he then trained, grew a lot stronger, and developed for centuries.



Ragnos wasn't a threat to the Jedi at all, though. He never met a Jedi.

The Jedi wouldn't even know how strong he was, they literally have no way of knowing.


All you're telling us here is that he had a biographer who was wrong about how dangerous he was. That there was a biographer who thought he was the best ever, but it was an unreliable narrator.


Nor would the biographer know about stuff past the biographer's time, so if he was pre-Vitiate then he wouldn't know that Vitiate had become a much bigger threat.


Just because someone says something doesn't make it true, you have to consider the source.

Originally posted by Q99
That's your problem, you assume that if you believe it, it's not false.

It can be wrong even if you believe it. You can work off of bad sources or incorrect assumptions just like anyone else. You are not always right.



Palpatine is noted by Lucas to be the most powerful Sith ever.

And Anakin had the highest potential. And Luke reached the highest level.

Sorry, Ragnos was the strongest of his time, but he wasn't the strongest ever,



Of course, the kid was a kid at that point.

But he then trained, grew a lot stronger, and developed for centuries.



Ragnos wasn't a threat to the Jedi at all, though. He never met a Jedi.

The Jedi wouldn't even know how strong he was, they literally have no way of knowing.


All you're telling us here is that he had a biographer who was wrong about how dangerous he was. That there was a biographer who thought he was the best ever, but it was an unreliable narrator.


Nor would the biographer know about stuff past the biographer's time, so if he was pre-Vitiate then he wouldn't know that Vitiate had become a much bigger threat.


Just because someone says something doesn't make it true, you have to consider the source. Yeah Darth Sidious was Noted by Lucas as the Most P.O.W.E.R.F.U.L Sith But Not the Most Powerful Sith that EVER lived that small part is what Y.O.U. added E.V.E.R. but what was he Most Powerful In was NOT specified. ONLY Said to being Most Powerful by Lucas, Which is why they Created Other and Previous Dark Lords Of The Sith to know how powerful they were compared to other Sith Generations and to Keep the Star Wars Franchise Going. and Yes the J.E.D.I had No way of Knowing FROM YOUR VIEWPOINT since it wasnt fully Detailed in the Books Provided to you and in YOUR EYES to make a Confirmation or a Observation conserning that Fact. and Anakin Had one of the Highest Potentials but never reached it. and me N.O.T knowing everything is a Fact, but that is only said by people that i have Encountered over the Net that are Intimidated by My Intelligence and Perception Contradicting their's and as for Ragnos he's the Strongest Force user in History. and actually the Biographer would know the Events that happened before his Time if Perception is high enough, Thats what gives Meaning to what Historians are about. Finding Observing and Photographicly memorizing the Previous Events, Piecing the Puzzles Together Uncovering the Mystery of the Past. Sorry you are wrong in All factors get used to it.

Sidious is noted by characters and writers of his power. Besides, he has actual feats to back up his rep.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
In that case Im gna piss everyone off and say: The Son
Son IS the Dark Side personified, so I agree with you, Darth Power. Also, Sidious, Revan as a Sith Lord, and Nihilus were HUGE threats as well.

Too bad the Son wasn't a Sith. http://twitchtvfaces.com/images/PogChamp.png

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Yeah Darth Sidious was Noted by Lucas as the Most P.O.W.E.R.F.U.L Sith But Not the Most Powerful Sith that EVER lived that small part is what Y.O.U. added E.V.E.R. but what was he Most Powerful In was NOT specified. ONLY Said to being Most Powerful by Lucas, Which is why they Created Other and Previous Dark Lords Of The Sith to know how powerful they were compared to other Sith Generations and to Keep the Star Wars Franchise Going. and Yes the J.E.D.I had No way of Knowing FROM YOUR VIEWPOINT since it wasnt fully Detailed in the Books Provided to you and in YOUR EYES to make a Confirmation or a Observation conserning that Fact. and Anakin Had one of the Highest Potentials but never reached it. and me N.O.T knowing everything is a Fact, but that is only said by people that i have Encountered over the Net that are Intimidated by My Intelligence and Perception Contradicting their's and as for Ragnos he's the Strongest Force user in History. and actually the Biographer would know the Events that happened before his Time if Perception is high enough, Thats what gives Meaning to what Historians are about. Finding Observing and Photographicly memorizing the Previous Events, Piecing the Puzzles Together Uncovering the Mystery of the Past. Sorry you are wrong in All factors get used to it.


History isn't about making stuff up. Your version contradicts known information. It's not just from my eyes, it's from the eyes of known information, and your opinion is frankly entirely secondary to what's in canon.

Also, Lucas made his statement well after the creation of Ragnos and the prior statement, and is about someone who came after the biographer.

The most powerful sith in history changes every time a more powerful Sith comes along. Ragnos was the most powerful sith in history at his time. Later, more powerful Sith came along, with more knowledge and skills that built on top of his.


And you'll never get anywhere if your response to facts is to just say the others person's wrong without being able to back it up with anything but assertions.


Like GenomeFrozener noted, Sidious has better feats than Ragnos.

Lucas has never (to my knowledge) referred to Sidious as the most powerful anything.

Originally posted by Q99
History isn't about making stuff up. Your version contradicts known information. It's not just from my eyes, it's from the eyes of known information, and your opinion is frankly entirely secondary to what's in canon.

Also, Lucas made his statement well after the creation of Ragnos and the prior statement, and is about someone who came after the biographer.

The most powerful sith in history changes every time a more powerful Sith comes along. Ragnos was the most powerful sith in history at his time. Later, more powerful Sith came along, with more knowledge and skills that built on top of his.


And you'll never get anywhere if your response to facts is to just say the others person's wrong without being able to back it up with anything


Like GenomeFrozener noted, Sidious has better feats than Ragnos. History isnt about Making stuff up? that was a Unsure Statement, that lets me know you are Supporting your Opinion to the Maximum Thinking Darth Viliate Or Darth Sidious was the Most Powerful and Bringing any Form of Evidence, (Even Though the evidence you Bring is not Etched in Stone) to Support your Opinion. "MY "VERSION" contradicts Known Information? More Like Contradicts a Highly Achknowledged Opinion that seems Sensible but not Factual. And it is True that The Most Powerful Sith In History Changes everytime a More Powerful Sith Comes Along. But what Sith that Succeeded Ragnos in Physical Strength and In the Force was Not Specificly Specified, Nor Stated by a Star Wars Creator. and You Saying Darth Sidious has better Feats then Ragnos? thats an Opinionated Statement from the Heart, you Contradicted yourself again. Almost Nothing was Said About Most of Ragnos's Feats for you to even come to that Blunt yet Stupid Conclusion. The Only thing that was Specificly Stated about 1 of Marka Ragnos's Feats was Told by None Other Then Darth Traya. Darth Traya Speaking to Meetra Surik, Stating that Marka Ragnos Possessed Tremendous Strength Both Physically and In the Force. and was Powerful enough to Turn his Enemys Against each Other, Making them kill themselfs Or Each other. (With or Without out Breaking their wills in the Process.) nor Wasting any Physical or Spiritual Energy Doing so, but Controlling their Minds. Thus Securing The Sith Throne. that was the Only thing Noted About 1 of Marka Ragnos's Feats. This is getting Fun(:

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
History isnt about Making stuff up? that was a Unsure Statement, that lets me know you are Supporting your Opinion to the Maximum Thinking Darth Viliate Or Darth Sidious was the Most Powerful and Bringing any Form of Evidence, (Even Though the evidence you Bring is not Etched in Stone) to Support your Opinion. "MY "VERSION" contradicts Known Information? More Like Contradicts a Highly Achknowledged Opinion that seems Sensible but not Factual. And it is True that The Most Powerful Sith In History Changes everytime a More Powerful Sith Comes Along. But what Sith that Succeeded Ragnos in Physical Strength and In the Force was Not Specificly Specified, Nor Stated by a Star Wars Creator. and You Saying Darth Sidious has better Feats then Ragnos? thats an Opinionated Statement from the Heart, you Contradicted yourself again. Almost Nothing was Said About Most of Ragnos's Feats for you to even come to that Blunt yet Stupid Conclusion. The Only thing that was Specificly Stated about 1 of Marka Ragnos's Feats was Told by None Other Then Darth Traya. Darth Traya Speaking to Meetra Surik, Stating that Marka Ragnos Possessed Tremendous Strength Both Physically and In the Force. and was Powerful enough to Turn his Enemys Against each Other, Making them kill themselfs Or Each other. (With or Without out Breaking their wills in the Process.) nor Wasting any Physical or Spiritual Energy Doing so, but Controlling their Minds. Thus Securing The Sith Throne. that was the Only thing Noted About 1 of Marka Ragnos's Feats. This is getting Fun(:

tl;dr

Learn to back up your arguments with facts.

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
tl;dr

Learn to back up your arguments with facts. I do Back up Statements with Facts and Facts that will be revealed in the Future, Im not trying to Lose my job over arguments.

You really shouldn't be on these forums with that way of thinking honestly. You NEVER posted a single fact in ANY of your arguments.

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
You really shouldn't be on these forums with that way of thinking honestly. You NEVER posted a single fact in ANY of your arguments. And the Same can be said about you, Since "your Way of thinking is The ABSENCE of Evidence is the Evidence of ABSENCE. thats a Very Flawed Way of Thinking, but i wouldnt expect anything otherwise from Most people these days.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
And the Same can be said about you, Since "your Way of thinking is The ABSENCE of Evidence is the Evidence of ABSENCE. thats a Very Flawed Way of Thinking

Sorry champ, but people on these forums don't follow the rules of quotes from famous actors. And besides, you can't really use the quote yourself with your biased arguments.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
but i wouldnt expect anything otherwise from Most people these days.

I seen some weird characters come and go here, but damn, you honestly take the cake. And that's saying alot here. Kudos.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
History isnt about Making stuff up? that was a Unsure Statement, that lets me know you are Supporting your Opinion to the Maximum Thinking Darth Viliate Or Darth Sidious was the Most Powerful and Bringing any Form of Evidence, (Even Though the evidence you Bring is not Etched in Stone) to Support your Opinion. "MY "VERSION" contradicts Known Information? More Like Contradicts a Highly Achknowledged Opinion that seems Sensible but not Factual.

Actually, Lucas determines the facts.

The evidence may not be 'etched in stone,' but it is more than the evidence you bring. More > less.




But we do know that Sidious was the strongest when he took over, so that tells us that either Sidious did, or someone took the title from Ragnos and then Sidious took it from them.





Nope, who has the bigger feats is a statement of fact. Size is a measurable thing, it is not a matter of opinion. Sidious has done bigger stuff, period.

And it doesn't come from my heart, it comes from the books, and comics, and all the other canon material.




Exactly, Ragnos has almost no feats.

Lack of information does not trump information. That's your problem.

Known information, Sidious wins.

Trying to argue that lack of evidence means Ragnos is better? That's just poor argument.




Exactly, Darth Traya who only knew of the Sith who came before her, not the Sith who came in the 4,000 years after.




And Vitiate can do all that too, and conquered the galaxy.

Therefore, Vitiate has better feats than Ragnos.

Let me run around and say that Revan can solo anyone. And when people ask me for evidence, I'll just say, just because that there is no evidence to prove my case, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And thus, Revan soloes! Let's see how far I get doing that.

Originally posted by Q99
Actually, Lucas determines the facts.

The evidence may not be 'etched in stone,' but it is more than the evidence you bring. More > less.





Therefore, Vitiate has better feats than Ragnos. and Since you said that everything you said that is considered evidence is not Etched in Stone in the Star Wars Series. then thats Not Known Factual Information. more like your personal Speculation. CONTRADICTION this is the 3rd Time you Contradicted yourself and Exactly Marka Ragnos has Almost No KNOWN feats for you to speak of. but still had Feats of Tremendous Power in Other Unknown Areas besides Physical Strength and the Force. and of Course Darth Viliate Can Break Wills, he learned that Technique while training Under Marka Ragnos. but Marka Ragnos didnt need to Break your will for you to do something he said. just Overpower you mind and Control it like a Puppet. even with your Will Intact he would Control and Overpower your will with his Own with little Trouble.

Where did you learn how to write?

You really suck at it.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
he learned that Technique while training Under Marka Ragnos.

Where was that stated?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Where did you learn how to write?

You really suck at it. Where did i learn to Write? Its Called typing not Writing on a Piece of Paper. just incase you forgot illiterate

Are you retarded?

Whether on paper or typed on a keyboard, your ability as a writer is the same, and your ability is particularly lacking.

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Where was that stated? Where was it stated? it wasnt Stated by any Character. Darth Viliate Didnt not Break the wills of Others untill He Completed his Training Under Marka Ragnos. then after that Viliate lured all the remaining Sith Lords from across the Galaxys to Dromund Kaas or Nathema to break all their wills and absorbed their Force Powers. then had all of them Perticipate in the most complicated Sith Sorcery that Made him Immortal. and to halt his fear of Death.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Are you retarded?

Whether on paper or typed on a keyboard, your ability as a writer is the same, and your ability is particularly lacking. You dont know my ability as a writer nor do you know my level of Intelligence to even make a Statement like that just from Viewing very Few of my Messages. and Besides you are going to become one of my little Fan boys in the Coming future whether you know it or not

The evidence of your competence as a writer, as it stands, is rather damning.

Originally posted by NemeBro
The evidence of your competence as a writer, as it stands, is rather damning. You dont have any "Evidence" of my Competence? right. but in the future You'll be another one of my Fan Boys.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
You dont have any "Evidence" of my Competence? right. but in the future You'll be another one of my Fan Boys.

There should be an apostrophe in "don't", you capitalised "evidence" and "competence" needlessly, you didn't capitalise "right" and "but" when you should have, really, I could go on all day with your every post.

Originally posted by NemeBro
There should be an apostrophe in "don't", you capitalised "evidence" and "competence" needlessly, you didn't capitalise "right" and "but" when you should have, really, I could go on all day with your every post. Yeah you got that right it was Needlessly. This is a Forum Site. To talk about stuff and havin fun' is what im doing right now, before its termination

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Where was it stated? it wasnt Stated by any Character. Darth Viliate Didnt not Break the wills of Others untill He Completed his Training Under Marka Ragnos. then after that Viliate lured all the remaining Sith Lords from across the Galaxys to Dromund Kaas or Nathema to break all their wills and absorbed their Force Powers. then had all of them Perticipate in the most complicated Sith Sorcery that Made him Immortal. and to halt his fear of Death.

Just because Marka was his master doesn't mean he was taught said ability by him.

Gotta ask: why are you guys trying to argue with 'Star Wars Logic'? There's clearly no convincing him of anything. He's either a very tenacious troll, or a very stupid kid. Either way, why are you bothering?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Gotta ask: why are you guys trying to argue with 'Star Wars Logic'? There's clearly no convincing him of anything. He's either a very tenacious troll, or a very stupid kid. Either way, why are you bothering? got both of those wrong. you are a degenerate with No Independant Observation. just another idiot that will go with the Majority Vote to Avoid a Possible Credability Loss. in Other words Patheitc.

Why did you capitalize so many of those words?

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Why did you capitalize so many of those words? I did that for fun. i dont care how my Words Look on Forum Sites. Just for Fun and adding "Random Symbols @#$% to words to make them look flashy.

I think you're telling the truth: you're neither a troll nor stupid.


You're deranged.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Gotta ask: why are you guys trying to argue with 'Star Wars Logic'? There's clearly no convincing him of anything. He's either a very tenacious troll, or a very stupid kid. Either way, why are you bothering?

By this point, I don't even know. But yeah, I'm done.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
got both of those wrong. you are a degenerate with No Independant Observation. just another idiot that will go with the Majority Vote to Avoid a Possible Credability Loss. in Other words Patheitc.


See, this is part of your problem.

You insult people for not agreeing with you... when you don't even have evidence and don't pay attention to when the evidence says you're wrong.


It's really clear that you attack people because you're just trying to deflect. Like you've had people tell you this is what's wrong with your arguments before, but rather than fix your arguments or reconsider your point of view, you just go, "*I* know! I'll just insult first so that people won't accuse me of stuff!".


Just using those words don't mean people have those problems, not when you have problems in the argument's actual factual terms, and in the end, it's always what the facts are that determines who's right, not who can insult the other side first and call them 'close minded'.

And I will note the extreme irony of calling people close minded while not being willing to listen to other's arguments.



(I will also note that I've actually gotten people around here to change their opinion on some matters, so no, they aren't all that close minded. You just gotta use facts and not assumption)

Originally posted by Q99
See, this is part of your problem.

You insult people for not agreeing with you... when you don't even have evidence and don't pay attention to when the evidence says you're wrong.


It's really clear that you attack people because you're just trying to deflect. Like you've had people tell you this is what's wrong with your arguments before, but rather than fix your arguments or reconsider your point of view, you just go, "*I* know! I'll just insult first so that people won't accuse me of stuff!".


Just using those words don't mean people have those problems, not when you have problems in the argument's actual factual terms, and in the end, it's always what the facts are that determines who's right, not who can insult the other side first and call them 'close minded'.

And I will note the extreme irony of calling people close minded while not being willing to listen to other's arguments.



(I will also note that I've actually gotten people around here to change their opinion on some matters, so no, they aren't all that close minded. You just gotta use facts and not assumption) No i dont insult people for not agreeing with me. I couldnt care less for what people agree with but thats something you still cant get into your thick little head yet. if someone is going to insult me calling me a TROLL or a STUPID KID even though that person dosent have the slightest clue as to what my personality is like past the keyboard. only viewing my Text then calling me a TROLL or STUPID KID just because i presented Evidence thats other then a movie star's qoute or a quote tookin from a character in a book. of course naturally im going to reply back to that person's insult with one of my own that may turn out to be true later on if evidenced in the User's Actions. (This is just like the Playground in elementary school. the Person who hits the indivisual first dosent get caught nor ridiculed for his actions. And yet when the other indivisual hits back in self defense they get caught in the action stopped by the late witness and scolded for what he done even though he's not the person that should be accused of such) When it comes to the Zeison Sha's argument. i have proved that they are advanced in term of telekinetic attributes notably offense and defense that has not yet been witnessed by the jedi order and also the reason why their elite warriors never suffered casualties. besides some of the zeison sha warriors turning to the dark side' being hunted down and killed if they cannot be turned back to the lightside. otherwise the zeison sha are specialist in telekinetic power and even have a few tricks that no force organizations have seen as of yet. and for marka ragnos being the most powerful force user has been proved in the form of explanatory evidence.

Ok, we're getting overheated here guys- calm it down.

Yes, you do. Case in point:



You say you don't care and immediate leap to 'thick little head'.

You don't consider you could be wrong or listen to when other people point out errors in your argument or present counter-points, you just call them thick-headed, close minded, and so on without accepting what they're saying.

And you started doing this before anyone called you anything.



That's another thing: We do know what your personality is like at the keyboard, and that's why people are saying these things. At the keyboard, you're argumentative, dismissive, and toss insults when people say things you don't like even if all they're doing is presenting counter-arguments and examples.


Try just responded with arguments and considering what other people say, rather than dismissing everyone as 'close minded' and 'thick skulled' for disagreeing with you regardless of how much backing their argument has. Calm down and debate and listen, and don't just assume everyone who disagrees is 'thick headed'.

Originally posted by Q99
Yes, you do. Case in point:



You say you don't care and immediate leap to 'thick little head'.

You don't consider you could be wrong or listen to when other people point out errors in your argument or present counter-points, you just call them thick-headed, close minded, and so on without accepting what they're saying.

And you started doing this before anyone called you anything.



That's another thing: We do know what your personality is like at the keyboard, and that's why people are saying these things. At the keyboard, you're argumentative, dismissive, and toss insults when people say things you don't like even if all they're doing is presenting counter-arguments and examples.


Try just responded with arguments and considering what other people say, rather than dismissing everyone as 'close minded' and 'thick skulled' for disagreeing with you regardless of how much backing their argument has. Calm down and debate and listen, and don't just assume everyone who disagrees is 'thick headed'. Case in point. you just proved yourself to be exactly what you explained the example of the accused indivisual to be. you didnt read nor consider anything i have said but rather ridiculed envy' and attempted to change my mind with the absence of the from evidence you are looking for. this is the 4th time you have contradicted yourself

I said cut it out- it stops now.