Combat speed: Thor Vs Lobo Vs Hulk Vs Doomsday

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abhilegend
Nods to leonidas. Rank them in the tems of combat speed.

-Pr-
Lobo? Really?

abhilegend
Originally posted by -Pr-
Lobo? Really?
He suggested it.
Originally posted by leonidas
i agree that scan in no way supports dd's speed. as far as taking this off-thread open a new one and we can continue in whatever direction you'd like. i'd open one but i'm not completely clear what you're thinking about. we could hulk' speed vs dd's or open a thread in the discussion forum or just a vs thread comparing the speeds of all of the people involved--thor, hulk, lobo and dd. that might be fun and interesting.

i'm good with whatever.

-Pr-
Ah...

Okay, well while I can't rate Lobo, my order for the others would be Doomsday, then Thor, then Hulk.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by -Pr-
Ah...

Okay, well while I can't rate Lobo, my order for the others would be Doomsday, then Thor, then Hulk. And how big would the gap between each be?

-Pr-
Originally posted by Parmaniac
And how big would the gap between each be?

If Doomsday was a 10, Thor would be somewhere around 7, maybe, and Hulk would be a... 3, 4?

I dunno. I don't think either gap means that one can dance around the other like say, Superman does around Mongul.

Cogito
Originally posted by -Pr-
Ah...

Okay, well while I can't rate Lobo, my order for the others would be Doomsday, then Thor, then Hulk.
thumb up

carver9
Thor

Hulk=Doomsday (going by fts, Hulk)

Lobo

Galan007
Originally posted by -Pr-
Ah...

Okay, well while I can't rate Lobo, my order for the others would be Doomsday, then Thor, then Hulk. I agree.

Where Lobo is concerned, I know he's got some degree of enhanced speed, but I don't think it's nearly enough to overwhelm someone like Superman, nor is it an ability that is often (if ever) remarked on by other characters.

So as far as combat speed goes, I'd say: Doomsday>>Thor>>Lobo>>Hulk.

CosmicComet
Lobo's speed is based on need.

quanchi112
Thor--1st
Hulk--2nd
Doomsday--3rd.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Thor

Hulk=Doomsday (going by fts, Hulk)

Lobo

facepalm

Originally posted by Galan007
I agree.

Where Lobo is concerned, I know he's got some degree of enhanced speed, but I don't think it's nearly enough to overwhelm someone like Superman, nor is it an ability that is often (if ever) remarked on by other characters.

So as far as combat speed goes, I'd say: Doomsday>>Thor>>Lobo>>Hulk.

Works for me.

JakeTheBank
Doomsday > Thor > Hulk > Lobo

The Sorrow
Doomsday > Thor = Hulk > Lobo

"Id"
Doomsday

carver9
Hulk thunder claps...while Darwin is in the air from Hulks thunder clap, WWH turns around and punch him before Darwin hits the ground.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WWH_Xmen_3_DCP_0005.jpg

Hulk swatting missles out of the sky shot by shield.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkswatsmissiles.jpg

Savage Hulk even slapped missles out of the sky.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkreactionspeed1.jpg

Hulk creating sonic booms while jumping.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/10mp9.jpg/

I'm trying to find the scan of Hulk moving in a blur during his fight against Ghost Rider.

Odekahn
Originally posted by Galan007

Doomsday>>Thor>>Lobo>>Hulk.

^This.

Sundipped
Originally posted by carver9
Hulk thunder claps...while Darwin is in the air from Hulks thunder clap, WWH turns around and punch him before Darwin hits the ground.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WWH_Xmen_3_DCP_0005.jpg

Hulk swatting missles out of the sky shot by shield.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkswatsmissiles.jpg

Savage Hulk even slapped missles out of the sky.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkreactionspeed1.jpg

Hulk creating sonic booms while jumping.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/10mp9.jpg/

I'm trying to find the scan of Hulk moving in a blur during his fight against Ghost Rider.

That's all fine & dandy but its still:
Doomsday
Thor
Hulk
Lobo

-Pr-
Originally posted by Odekahn
^This.


...and?

carver9
Originally posted by Sundipped
That's all fine & dandy but its still:
Doomsday
Thor
Hulk
Lobo

I'm trying to start something here instead of people using the "Doomsday hit Superman argument". Everyone here has hit Superman like characters...everyone here has overwhelmed similar characters. Let's use fts.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
I'm trying to start something here instead of people using the "Doomsday hit Superman argument". Everyone here has hit Superman like characters...everyone here has overwhelmed similar characters. Let's use fts.

You ignore feats, though.

And no, that's not what people did.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
You ignore feats, though.

And no, that's not what people did.

What speed ft of Doomsday that was posted I ignored?

The Pict
Originally posted by -Pr-
Ah...

Okay, well while I can't rate Lobo, my order for the others would be Doomsday, then Thor, then Hulk.

Sounds about right.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk thunder claps...while Darwin is in the air from Hulks thunder clap, WWH turns around and punch him before Darwin hits the ground.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l92/priest_85/WWH_Xmen_3_DCP_0005.jpg

Hulk swatting missles out of the sky shot by shield.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkswatsmissiles.jpg

Savage Hulk even slapped missles out of the sky.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Hulk/hulkreactionspeed1.jpg

Hulk creating sonic booms while jumping.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/209/10mp9.jpg/

I'm trying to find the scan of Hulk moving in a blur during his fight against Ghost Rider.

Usual misinterpretation with some of these scans.

And none of it shows Hulk is faster than Doomsday.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
What speed ft of Doomsday that was posted I ignored?

Umm... All of them?

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
Umm... All of them?

I haven't even been involved in the Doomsday speed argument. I'm not ignoring his fts.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
I haven't even been involved in the Doomsday speed argument. I'm not ignoring his fts.

By saying Hulk is his equal/superior, you are.

Unless of course you're willing to admit that you haven't really read up on the character.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
By saying Hulk is his equal/superior, you are.

Unless of course you're willing to admit that you haven't really read up on the character.

Who haven't read Doomsday? That still doesn't take away from what I am asking for. At least post fts to prove your case instead of statements and the "who he fought" argument. Doomsday have enough showings to prove if he is a speedster or not.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Who haven't read Doomsday? That still doesn't take away from what I am asking for. At least post fts to prove your case instead of statements and the "who he fought" argument. Doomsday have enough showings to prove if he is a speedster or not.

You haven't, because if you had, you wouldn't be asking me for feats. Feats, which were posted in the last thread, but you ignored those too.

CosmicComet
-Doomsday had multiple statements of great speed from other characters.

-Doomsday didn't struggle with a speedster.

-Doomsday has Kryptonian dna.

^And we know that Kryptonians are specifically fast because of their enhanced muscular power from solar rays. Doomsday has this exact same attribute.

Kryptonians are fast because of their super strength, as opposed to The Flash who is fast because of a specific power. Doomsday is Kryptonian. Doomsday also has super strength from solar energy just as other Kryptonians.

Doomsday is a speedster. Period.

Odekahn
Originally posted by -Pr-
...and?

I agree with that order. I don't know what else to say here that I haven't already said in the other thread. Doomsday is the fastest striker here. Hulk, while not slow, is the slowest out of this group.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by -Pr-
Ah...

Okay, well while I can't rate Lobo, my order for the others would be Doomsday, then Thor, then Hulk.

You jest? DD that much faster than Thor.. nah

-Pr-
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You jest? DD that much faster than Thor.. nah

Where did I use the word "much"?

KuRuPT Thanosi
I didn't say "much" I said "THAT much" faster.. ya know.. being that you gave DD a 10 and Thor a 6 or 7

-Pr-
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I didn't say "much" I said "THAT much" faster.. ya know.. being that you gave DD a 10 and Thor a 6 or 7

Oh that. Okay, you don't agree then. Fair enough.

Stoic
Lobo is the fastest here. This, I have little doubt of, as he hammered Superman continuously and did so unanswered.

Thor, Hulk, and Doomsday are in the same class.

Superman was able to remain untouched by the intelligent Doomsday Rex. This shows that Doomsday is not a Flash, Quicksilver, Northstar... etc type of speedster.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by carver9
What speed ft of Doomsday that was posted I ignored?

He punched Superman. Anyone who punches Superman is faster than Hulk, idoit. Shaggyman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hulk in speed too. Why? Because Hulk never punched Superman. Get your head straight.

/sarcasm

FYI you haven't ignored any Doomsday feats... because he doesn't have any.

Stoic
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He punched Superman. Anyone who punches Superman is faster than Hulk, idoit. Shaggyman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hulk in speed too. Why? Because Hulk never punched Superman. Get your head straight.

/sarcasm

FYI you haven't ignored any Doomsday feats... because he doesn't have any.


Doomsday, Thor, Hulk.. Heck even Spiderman has enhanced speed due to being superhumanly strong, but super duper speed is something that none of them have.

Thor, Hulk, Doomsday, and Lobo can likely break 300 MPH running speed. Didn't Juggernaut recently do this?

Galan007
laughing

Doomsday's speed overwhelms the likes of: Maxima, Superman, AMPED Superman, Guy, Booster, etc. etc. to the point that they comment on how remarkably fast he is.... But he doesn't have any combat speed feats..?

The writer's intent via narration and illustration were clear as day; Doomsday is F-A-S-T. You people are hysterical.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Stoic
Lobo is the fastest here. This, I have little doubt of, as he hammered Superman continuously and did so unanswered.

Thor, Hulk, and Doomsday are in the same class.

Superman was able to remain untouched by the intelligent Doomsday Rex. This shows that Doomsday is not a Flash, Quicksilver, Northstar... etc type of speedster.

Doomsday Rex =/= other Doomsdays.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Stoic
Doomsday, Thor, Hulk.. Heck even Spiderman has enhanced speed due to being superhumanly strong, but super duper speed is something that none of them have.

Thor, Hulk, Doomsday, and Lobo can likely break 300 MPH running speed. Didn't Juggernaut recently do this?

You know what Superman's super duper speed comes from right?

From his solar powered superstrength as a Kryptonian.

That goes for Doomsday as well.

Superman/Supergirl/Superboy etc are fast because they are immensely strong. That holds true for Doomsday as well. Since the reason for their strength is the same as his.

leonidas
lobo has a few feats like this:

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Lobo/?action=view&current=lobocombatspeed1.jpg

the fact that he has a couple leads me to conclude he has some measure of superspeed. thor doesn't have many direct evidence feats to support superspeed but he has a couple as well. the feats may not be utterly compelling, but taken for what they are they can be used to make an argument, albeit not a particularly strong argument.

i would agree dd is the fastest here for sure, but using thor and lobo's HIGHEST feats, i'd say they weren't THAT far apart--at least it's an argument i would listen to.

dd>thor=lobo>hulk

and i STILL don't understand how all these 'horrible, hyperbolic statements' are being divorced from the PERFORMED FEATS that they reference. here is an imaginary exchange:

DD PERFORMS FEAT. person x (who himself has superspeed) can't react/defend said FEAT. person x says 'damn, he's REALLY fast to have performed that FEAT!'

what did this exchange BEGIN with again.....? no expression

carver9
I thought Maxima was ripping through Doomsday during their fight and punched him through a building and was only taken.down.when Superman.showed up? Hulk overwhelmed Gladiator, Genis, Sentry, Hyperion, Captain Mar-vell and the list goes on. Hulk blitzing Ironman and Wonderman>>>>Doomsday Blitzing Boooster Gold.

Cogito
Originally posted by Galan007
laughing

Doomsday's speed overwhelms the likes of: Maxima, Superman, AMPED Superman, Guy, Booster, etc. etc. to the point that they comment on how remarkably fast he is.... But he doesn't have any combat speed feats..?

The writer's intent via narration and illustration were clear as day; Doomsday is F-A-S-T. You people are hysterical.

thumb up

Whether you like it or not, Doomsday's speed has been specifically compared to the Flash (this was DoS DD, who was weaker than other Doomsdays; also it was a time when Flash wasn't as fast as he is now).

I've never seen the Hulk directly compared to a speedster, let alone one of the Flash's caliber (not that there really is a speedster in Marvel of Flash's caliber, sans the Runner)

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by -Pr-
If Doomsday was a 10, Thor would be somewhere around 7, maybe, and Hulk would be a... 3, 4?

I dunno. I don't think either gap means that one can dance around the other like say, Superman does around Mongul.

I'll go with this.

carver9
Originally posted by Cogito
thumb up

Whether you like it or not, Doomsday's speed has been specifically compared to the Flash (this was DoS DD, who was weaker than other Doomsdays; also it was a time when Flash wasn't as fast as he is now).

I've never seen the Hulk directly compared to a speedster, let alone one of the Flash's caliber (not that there really is a speedster in Marvel of Flash's caliber, sans the Runner)

Captain America was compared to Quick Silver. embarrasment

CosmicComet
Originally posted by carver9
Captain America was compared to Quick Silver. embarrasment

Quicksilver wasn't even mach speed to begin with.

More like a super-super fast race car.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by CosmicComet
You know what Superman's super duper speed comes from right?

From his solar powered superstrength as a Kryptonian.

That goes for Doomsday as well.

Superman/Supergirl/Superboy etc are fast because they are immensely strong. That holds true for Doomsday as well. Since the reason for their strength is the same as his.

We know Superman/Supergirl/Superboy are fast because they have legitimate speed feats. Re-appropriating the feats of Superman and applying them to Doomsday because he shares some of the genetic make up is a bit of a stretch don't you think? The best Doomsday has in the speed department is some off the cuff "he's fast" statements from otherwise fast character forcibly jobbing to a low speed bruiser. It's real impressive that every once in a while DC lets him gets to get into a punching matches with characters who have conveniently forgotten they have super speed... but that isn't anything unique to Doomsday... Hulk does it all the time too... and it doesn't make either of them speedsters.

Stoic
Originally posted by leonidas
lobo has a few feats like this:

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Lobo/?action=view&current=lobocombatspeed1.jpg

the fact that he has a couple leads me to conclude he has some measure of superspeed. thor doesn't have many direct evidence feats to support superspeed but he has a couple as well. the feats may not be utterly compelling, but taken for what they are they can be used to make an argument, albeit not a particularly strong argument.

i would agree dd is the fastest here for sure, but using thor and lobo's HIGHEST feats, i'd say they weren't THAT far apart--at least it's an argument i would listen to.

dd>thor=lobo>hulk

and i STILL don't understand how all these 'horrible, hyperbolic statements' are being divorced from the PERFORMED FEATS that they reference. here is an imaginary exchange:

DD PERFORMS FEAT. person x (who himself has superspeed) can't react/defend said FEAT. person x says 'damn, he's REALLY fast to have performed that FEAT!'

what did this exchange BEGIN with again.....? no expression


They all have super human speed dude. Strength means speed.

leonidas
to varying degrees dude.

Galan007
Originally posted by leonidas
lobo has a few feats like this:

http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/Lobo/?action=view&current=lobocombatspeed1.jpg I don't have any problems with your opinion that Lobo=Thor (i'd tend to agree, actually), but how in the heck are we supposed to quantify that feat?

That's Coyote/Roadrunner-type-speed, right there. laughing out loud

Prep-Man
Tasmanian Devil? And didn't he surprise Superman in speed?

Stoic
Originally posted by leonidas
to varying degrees dude.



Superman being hit by DOS Doomsday was plot related. Later we see that Superman really never had to get into an exchange with Doomsday in the first place.

carver9
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
We know Superman/Supergirl/Superboy are fast because they have legitimate speed feats. Re-appropriating the feats of Superman and applying them to Doomsday because he shares some of the genetic make up is a bit of a stretch don't you think? The best Doomsday has in the speed department is some off the cuff "he's fast" statements from otherwise fast character forcibly jobbing to a low speed bruiser. It's real impressive that every once in a while DC lets him gets to get into a punching matches with characters who have conveniently forgotten they have super speed... but that isn't anything unique to Doomsday... Hulk does it all the time too... and it doesn't make either of them speedsters.

Pretty much. That's why I am trying to see these speed fts everyone here are mentioning. Hell, even Mongul moved his hands in a blur motion numerous of Times. Does Doomsday have these type of showings besides character statements? Especially from Booster Gold of all people. It's a simple thing to do...post some scans.

Odekahn
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
We know Superman/Supergirl/Superboy are fast because they have legitimate speed feats. Re-appropriating the feats of Superman and applying them to Doomsday because he shares some of the genetic make up is a bit of a stretch don't you think? The best Doomsday has in the speed department is some off the cuff "he's fast" statements from otherwise fast character forcibly jobbing to a low speed bruiser. It's real impressive that every once in a while DC lets him gets to get into a punching matches with characters who have conveniently forgotten they have super speed... but that isn't anything unique to Doomsday... Hulk does it all the time too... and it doesn't make either of them speedsters.

They aren't forgetting they have super speed, they are using super speed and so is Doomsday. I suppose Flash while in motion wasn't using super speed when DD was able to touch him, huh? He clearly was. And if you say that he doesn't have to have superspeed to touch the Flash, then you can't use the argument that "other Justice League members without superspeed could hit DD, therefore he must not have superspeed."

"Didn't even see him mo--" "He's... faster than Flash" "Gotta match doomsday's speed or I'm done!" "How could he move so fast?"

These are the statements of what was taking place. It's obvious to most people that he has superspeed. We aren't the only group who believes this. The group who disputes his speed is very very small. You guys are in denial.

All throughout Doomsday's debut and establishment in DOS his speed was referenced. Not "wow he's pretty quick" or a once off statement. His speed is also reiterated in HP. It's not like he's got his own series and years upon years of being on panel over and over again where you can cherry pick a single statement.

Has the Hulk ever, in all his years, been referenced this heavily in a solitary story arc by people who themselves have superspeed?

CosmicComet
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
We know Superman/Supergirl/Superboy are fast because they have legitimate speed feats. Re-appropriating the feats of Superman and applying them to Doomsday because he shares some of the genetic make up is a bit of a stretch don't you think? The best Doomsday has in the speed department is some off the cuff "he's fast" statements from otherwise fast character forcibly jobbing to a low speed bruiser. It's real impressive that every once in a while DC lets him gets to get into a punching matches with characters who have conveniently forgotten they have super speed... but that isn't anything unique to Doomsday... Hulk does it all the time too... and it doesn't make either of them speedsters.

Yes, they have feats establishing that they are fast, and what is also established within stories is that they are fast because of their physical strength.

DOS Doomsday had constant remarks on his speed, was not overwhelmed by speedsters, and on top of that he is a Kryptonian, who've we've established are fast because of their gifted solar powered physical strength.

The reason there is any sort of lingering doubt about the veracity of his speed is because they see a hulk-like physique and just want to assume that its hyperbole. And that falls when every other consideration is taken into account.

Maybe if Doomsday was remarked as being slow specifically, we could remark that his kryptonian heritage means nothing on that front, but that's not what we have. Speed is not a kryptonian 'superpower' the way flight and heat vision and what not are. It's simply a physical attribute that's a part of their entire enhanced package. It makes absolutely no sense for his speed to not increase with solar energy when the very point is that it enhances his stats period. There is no picking and choosing.

leonidas
Originally posted by Stoic
Superman being hit by DOS Doomsday was plot related. Later we see that Superman really never had to get into an exchange with Doomsday in the first place.

i don't even know what that means. plot related. sure thing. every mention of it was pis. got it. him ACTIVELY trying to stay away from him and still getting pulled in is all pis. opinion noted.

Stoic
Originally posted by leonidas
i don't even know what that means. plot related. sure thing. every mention of it was pis. got it. him ACTIVELY trying to stay away from him and still getting pulled in is all pis. opinion noted.



Take it down a notch. I was just mentioning what Superman did to Rex, which pretty much drew much attention to all of the fights that they had. It was either PIS or Superman wanting to mix it up with someone. After all, if Superman did his vibrating routine in all of his fights with DD there would have really never have been anything to write about.

Odekahn
Originally posted by carver9
Pretty much. That's why I am trying to see these speed fts everyone here are mentioning. Hell, even Mongul moved his hands in a blur motion numerous of Times. Does Doomsday have these type of showings besides character statements? Especially from Booster Gold of all people. It's a simple thing to do...post some scans.

When Guy Gardner gets slammed into the ground without even seeing Doomsday move, is that not a feat?

carver9
Originally posted by Odekahn
When Guy Gardner gets slammed into the ground without even seeing Doomsday move, is that not a feat?

Scan.

Grundy tackling the JSA and slapping Jay at the same time. Is Grundy faster than Hulk as well.?

http://img250.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=52447_Supergirl-V5-001-006-007_122_433lo.jpg

Silent Master
At this point, DD has been in several arcs/stories....does he have any quantifiable feats?

-Pr-
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
We know Superman/Supergirl/Superboy are fast because they have legitimate speed feats. Re-appropriating the feats of Superman and applying them to Doomsday because he shares some of the genetic make up is a bit of a stretch don't you think? The best Doomsday has in the speed department is some off the cuff "he's fast" statements from otherwise fast character forcibly jobbing to a low speed bruiser. It's real impressive that every once in a while DC lets him gets to get into a punching matches with characters who have conveniently forgotten they have super speed... but that isn't anything unique to Doomsday... Hulk does it all the time too... and it doesn't make either of them speedsters.

Please, don't pretend you know anything about Doomsday.

Originally posted by carver9
Pretty much. That's why I am trying to see these speed fts everyone here are mentioning. Hell, even Mongul moved his hands in a blur motion numerous of Times. Does Doomsday have these type of showings besides character statements? Especially from Booster Gold of all people. It's a simple thing to do...post some scans.

You were shown them.

Originally posted by Stoic
Take it down a notch. I was just mentioning what Superman did to Rex, which pretty much drew much attention to all of the fights that they had. It was either PIS or Superman wanting to mix it up with someone. After all, if Superman did his vibrating routine in all of his fights with DD there would have really never have been anything to write about.

Rex is weaker than the other Doomsdays, and by extension, slower.

CosmicComet
Superman was stronger vs Doomsday Rex than he was during DOS as well.

carver9
Originally posted by Silent Master
At this point, DD has been in several arcs/stories....does he have any quantifiable feats?

DOS statements.

Statements like these.


http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulkspeed.jpg

Stoic
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Superman was stronger vs Doomsday Rex than he was during DOS as well.

Even DOS Superman could vibrate though.

Odekahn
Originally posted by carver9
Scan.

Grundy tackling the JSA and slapping Jay at the same time. Is Grundy faster than Hulk as well.?

http://img250.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=52447_Supergirl-V5-001-006-007_122_433lo.jpg

I don't have any digital comics, only paper. And I don't own a scanner. But if you've read DOS 6-7 times like you've said you have, you shouldn't have any trouble remembering it.

I'm not saying solomon grundy has superspeed, and that's not even part of this debate. However, if grundy is able to hit someone with superspeed and he himself doesn't possess superspeed, and you acknowledge this, you can't use the rest of the Justice League being able to hit DD in DOS as any kind of proof that he lacks superspeed.

Odekahn
Originally posted by carver9
DOS statements.

Statements like these.


http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/hulkspeed.jpg

No. That's his speed referenced in spite of his size. The Doomsday references are on sheer speed alone.

carver9
Originally posted by Odekahn
I don't have any digital comics, only paper. And I don't own a scanner. But if you've read DOS 6-7 times like you've said you have, you shouldn't have any trouble remembering it.

I'm not saying solomon grundy has superspeed, and that's not even part of this debate. However, if grundy is able to hit someone with superspeed and he himself doesn't possess superspeed, and you acknowledge this, you can't use the rest of the Justice League being able to hit DD in DOS as any kind of proof that he lacks superspeed.

It's been a while since I've read it and I'm basing this off of memory.

I agree with you, Doomsday does have super speed but not to the extent you are trying to put it. That's why I am asking you for speed fts. Pr, I remember you posting scans me along with some other individuals disagreed with.

Stoic
I recall DD moving quite fast in many of his appearances, but so has the Juggernaut. What I have yet to see, is him moving at Flash like speed. Has anyone ever witnessed DD moving like the Flash? I mean in a blur.

carver9
Originally posted by Odekahn
No. That's his speed referenced in spite of his size. The Doomsday references are on sheer speed alone.

So him jumping at Wonderman and Ironman from some ft away and punching and grabbing them before they had a chance to react isn't a speed ft?

leonidas
Originally posted by Stoic
Take it down a notch.

stop stating opinion as fact.



dd rex is not who we're talking about, so irrelevent. and sure there would have been--hp dd would have adapted to it like he did to the ultrasonics and killed him despite his intangibility.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by carver9
So him jumping at Wonderman and Ironman from some ft away and punching and grabbing them before they had a chance to react isn't a speed ft?

they had enough time to talk. stick out tongue

carver9
Originally posted by Stoic
I recall DD moving quite fast in many of his appearances, but so has the Juggernaut. What I have yet to see, is him moving a Flash like speed. Has anyone ever witnessed DD moving like the Flash? I mean in a blur.

Thats what I am asking for as well.

Odekahn
Originally posted by Stoic
I recall DD moving quite fast in many of his appearances, but so has the Juggernaut. What I have yet to see, is him moving a Flash like speed. Has anyone ever witnessed DD moving like the Flash? I mean in a blur.

Slamming Guy without him even seeing movement on the part of DD sounds pretty blurrish to me.

carver9
Originally posted by CosmicComet
they had enough time to talk. stick out tongue

The people that commented on Doomsday speed did as well.

evil face

Sundipped
Originally posted by Odekahn
All throughout Doomsday's debut and establishment in DOS his speed was referenced. Not "wow he's pretty quick" or a once off statement. His speed is also reiterated in HP. It's not like he's got his own series and years upon years of being on panel over and over again where you can cherry pick a single statement.

Has the Hulk ever, in all his years, been referenced this heavily in a solitary story arc by people who themselves have superspeed?

This. thumb up
Do we need ha1 to come in with a mathematical equation to get people to see the picture?

I can't see why this is so hard to grasp. It's not rocket science. no expression

Odekahn
Originally posted by carver9
So him jumping at Wonderman and Ironman from some ft away and punching and grabbing them before they had a chance to react isn't a speed ft?

You are using the quote as a feat and I told you why that =/= the DD quotes in DOS.

Stoic
Originally posted by Odekahn
Slamming Guy without him even seeing movement on the part of DD sounds pretty blurrish to me.


Guy has the reaction speed of a normal human. Spiderman could blitz Gardner.

Originally posted by leonidas
stop stating opinion as fact.



dd rex is not who we're talking about, so irrelevent. and sure there would have been--hp dd would have adapted to it like he did to the ultrasonics and killed him despite his intangibility.


Like I said, take it down a notch, I wasn't attacking you, nor was I making statements as fact. I have just never seen DD move like the Flash. Have you ever seen DD adapt and become as fast as Wally or any other Speed-Force amplified human? Take this as if I am challenging you or as a question, it's entirely up to you.

Lord Feron
DD slightly higher than thor but not by any amount that would deem it a significant advantage in a fight, then hulk, and then lobo.

But i believe generally all of them are so close.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Odekahn
They aren't forgetting they have super speed, they are using super speed and so is Doomsday. I suppose Flash while in motion wasn't using super speed when DD was able to touch him, huh? He clearly was. And if you say that he doesn't have to have superspeed to touch the Flash, then you can't use the argument that "other Justice League members without superspeed could hit DD, therefore he must not have superspeed."

"Didn't even see him mo--" "He's... faster than Flash" "Gotta match doomsday's speed or I'm done!" "How could he move so fast?"

These are the statements of what was taking place. It's obvious to most people that he has superspeed. We aren't the only group who believes this. The group who disputes his speed is very very small. You guys are in denial.

All throughout Doomsday's debut and establishment in DOS his speed was referenced. Not "wow he's pretty quick" or a once off statement. His speed is also reiterated in HP. It's not like he's got his own series and years upon years of being on panel over and over again where you can cherry pick a single statement.

Has the Hulk ever, in all his years, been referenced this heavily in a solitary story arc by people who themselves have superspeed?

roll eyes (sarcastic)

If the ability to trade punches with a character who possessed super speed was in and off itself enough to accurately extrapolate the relative speed of a character, then would could reasonably assume that virtually every character had reflexes. I guess Grundy and General Eiling are all faster than Hulk too with their crazy FTL Speed!

Doomsday doesn't have any speed feats. He has punched several people who do... but that can be said for almost every character, including the other four in this thread, most noticeably the Hulk himself. The fact that outside of punching people, he lacks a single quantifiable speed feat should be self explanatory. But never mind that! Doomsday fought Superman! That means he has super speed because Superman has super speed! Hulk's fought Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Sentry, Genis and Hyperion... but that is just them jobbing to Hulk and forgetting their speed. When Superman fought Doomsday, who didn't (and still doesn't) have a legitimate speed feat, that was an accurate portrayal of Doomsdays speed though... and that isn't at all an half brained, barely thought out double standard... because... well apparently it just isn't...

Because Booster said Doomsday was faster than the Flash while getting his head slammed in a car door?

Odekahn
Originally posted by Stoic
Guy has the reaction speed of a normal human. Spiderman could blitz Gardner.


1. Spiderman would undoubtibly be faster than Guy, but do you think Spider-man is so fast that Guy wouldn't even be able to see him move?

2. Is Spider-man faster attack speed wise than Hulk?

3. This still doesn't take away from other characters who do have superspeed remarking at the speed of DD.

4. This is just one example in a story arc flooded with references and examples. The writers intent is crystal clear.

Odekahn
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
roll eyes (sarcastic)

If the ability to trade punches with a character who possessed super speed was in and off itself enough to accurately extrapolate the relative speed of a character, then would could reasonably assume that virtually every character had reflexes. I guess Grundy and General Eiling are all faster than Hulk too with their crazy FTL Speed!

Doomsday doesn't have any speed feats. He has punched several people who do... but that can be said for almost every character, including the other four in this thread, most noticeably the Hulk himself. The fact that outside of punching people, he lacks a single quantifiable speed feat should be self explanatory. But never mind that! Doomsday fought Superman! That means he has super speed because Superman has super speed! Hulk's fought Gladiator, Silver Surfer, Sentry, Genis and Hyperion... but that is just them jobbing to Hulk and forgetting their speed. When Superman fought Doomsday, who didn't (and still doesn't) have a legitimate speed feat, that was an accurate portrayal of Doomsdays speed though... and that isn't at all an half brained, barely thought out double standard... because... well apparently it just isn't...

Because Booster said Doomsday was faster than the Flash while getting his head slammed in a car door?

/facepalm

You need to re-read the thread.

leonidas
Originally posted by Stoic
Guy has the reaction speed of a normal human. Spiderman could blitz Gardner.




Like I said, take it down a notch, I wasn't attacking you, nor was I making statements as fact. I have just never seen DD move like the Flash. Have you ever seen DD adapt and become as fast as Wally or any other Speed-Force amplified human? Take this as if I am challenging you or as a question, it's entirely up to you.

not demonstrating speed force speed=being as fast as hulk?

huh.

leonidas
people keep referencing all the speed-related comments hulk has. we have one terrible example (simon and IM stand there commenting--here he comes....) so, where are all the others? anyone? people keep crying for dd feats--where exactly are the hulks?

Stoic
Originally posted by Odekahn
1. Spiderman would undoubtibly be faster than Guy, but do you think Spider-man is so fast that Guy wouldn't even be able to see him move?

2. Is Spider-man faster attack speed wise than Hulk?

3. This still doesn't take away from other characters who do have superspeed remarking at the speed of DD.

4. This is just one example in a story arc flooded with references and examples. The writers intent is crystal clear.


1. Yes Spiderman could blitz Guy without him seeing him, and has done so to characters that can fly at FTL speed through a meteor swarm and never get hit once.

2. Yes he does, but he does not have greater burst speeds than the Hulk, Thor, Doomsday, or Lobo due to them being greater in strength.

3. Never said this, I believe that Doomsday's short burst speeds are superhuman, but so are any class 100 character. Unless their particular physique does not allow them to move at such speeds. For example The Colossus that The Savage Hulk fought years ago was slow due to his unique physique.

4. Noted.

Diesldude
Originally posted by CosmicComet
You know what Superman's super duper speed comes from right?

From his solar powered superstrength as a Kryptonian.

That goes for Doomsday as well.

Superman/Supergirl/Superboy etc are fast because they are immensely strong. That holds true for Doomsday as well. Since the reason for their strength is the same as his.

I don't think superspeed is directly proportional to strength. If that was the Usain Bolt would be the strongest man on earth but he isn't. Its not a comics example but if we have to use a comics character the hulk would be alot faster and The Thing would be faster than he is. Super Strength also has no bearing on superman speeding up his perception to match flash which basically froze everyone around them. I think super speed is solar based super power this is why he can perform billions of calculations within seconds and I don't think strength has anything to do with this.

Stoic
Originally posted by Diesldude
I don't think superspeed is directly proportional to strength. If that was the Usain Bolt would be the strongest man on earth but he isn't. Its not a comics example but if we have to use a comics character the hulk would be alot faster and The Thing would be faster than he is. Super Strength also has no bearing on superman speeding up his perception to match flash which basically froze everyone around them. I think super speed is solar based super power this is why he can perform billions of calculations within seconds and I don't think strength has anything to do with this.



Actually in terms of muscular twitch fibers Bolt is the strongest man on Earth. They did a study on him, and found that his muscles move at a rate of a man half his size.

CosmicComet
Originally posted by Diesldude
I don't think superspeed is directly proportional to strength. If that was the Usain Bolt would be the strongest man on earth but he isn't. Its not a comics example but if we have to use a comics character the hulk would be alot faster and The Thing would be faster than he is. Super Strength also has no bearing on superman speeding up his perception to match flash which basically froze everyone around them. I think super speed is solar based super power this is why he can perform billions of calculations within seconds and I don't think strength has anything to do with this.

The stronger you are proportional to your size, the faster you are.

Beetles are super fast for their size because they are immensely strong for their size.

Conversely T.Rex wouldn't have been able to run 40 mph because it would've needed leg muscles that take up over 90% of its body weight, and that is impossible.

As for your Hulk vs Thing example, not many people in fiction understand (or conveniently wish to not acknowledge) that speed comes from power, and power comes from muscle.

On the other hand, some characters have super speed directly because of their strength, Superman for instance, as stated by the likes of Flash himself.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by -Pr-
Please, don't pretend you know anything about Doomsday.


Because Doomsday is such a rare and obscure character with hard to find appearances...

roll eyes (sarcastic)

Diesldude
Originally posted by Stoic
Actually in terms of muscular twitch fibers Bolt is the strongest man on Earth. They did a study on him, and found that his muscles move at a rate of a man half his size. Is that so? Then if superman's speed comes from strength and isn't a super power it would mean that Jurgens was right an that superman really is millions of times stronger than the hulk.

Galan007
Originally posted by Stoic
Guy has the reaction speed of a normal human. Spiderman could blitz Gardner. You repeatedly fail to understand that the WRITER put those words in Guy's mouth. Why? Because the writer INTENDED Doomsday to be a remarkably fast being--a fact he proved when his combat speed proved sufficient to overwhelm characters like Maxima, Superman, amped Superman, Booster, Bloodwynd/J'onn, etc.

I honestly don't understand what isn't computing with you guys. Doomsday not only has statements regarding his speed, he has feats to back them up. Statements+feats=incontrovertible proof, last time I checked.

-Pr-
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Because Doomsday is such a rare and obscure character with hard to find appearances...

roll eyes (sarcastic)

You're attempting to apply a standard to him that simply doesn't.

Originally posted by Galan007
You repeatedly fail to understand that the WRITER put those words in Guy's mouth. Why? Because the writer INTENDED Doomsday to be a remarkably fast being--a fact he proved when his combat speed proved sufficient to overwhelm characters like Maxima, Superman, amped Superman, Booster, Bloodwynd/J'onn, etc.

I honestly don't understand what isn't computing with you guys. Doomsday not only has statements regarding his speed, he has feats to back them up. Statements+feats=incontrovertible proof, last time I checked.

It still is.

Stoic
Originally posted by Diesldude
Is that so? Then if superman's speed comes from strength and isn't a super power it would mean that Jurgens was right an that superman really is millions of times stronger than the hulk.


I won't deny this, but the Hulk as we both know does not have a static strength level. At base, Superman just may be what you say he is. He is much stronger than the Hulk, but again that is the Hulk's base stats.

Malkaedus
Originally posted by carver9
Captain America was compared to Quick Silver. embarrasment

What is...I don't even...

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Galan007
You repeatedly fail to understand that the WRITER put those words in Guy's mouth. Why? Because the writer INTENDED Doomsday to be a remarkably fast being--a fact he proved when his combat speed proved sufficient to overwhelm characters like Maxima, Superman, amped Superman, Booster, Bloodwynd/J'onn, etc.

I honestly don't understand what isn't computing with you guys. Doomsday not only has statements regarding his speed, he has feats to back them up. Statements+feats=incontrovertible proof, last time I checked.


Here's your soap box buddy, so lets see those alleged speed feats.

Doomsday doesn't have any speed feats. He got into some slug fests with some characters who got their speed nerfed down so a Hulk expy would stand a chance and make an entertaining enemy. Awesome.

-Pr-
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Here's your soap box buddy, so lets see those alleged speed feats.

Doomsday doesn't have any speed feats. He got into some slug fests with some characters who got their speed nerfed down so a Hulk expy would stand a chance and make an entertaining enemy. Awesome.

Except that you'd have to have a basis for comparison to prove they were slowed down. Doomsday in his first appearance wasn't like a character that had 40+ years of history.

To even believe they were slowed down, you'd have had to show an example of Doomsday having a speed limit or being unable to react to something.

Doomsday was just that fast.

Galan007
Originally posted by -Pr-
It still is. That's what I thought.

So when I see this scan:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/dd-speed1.jpg

I am able to understand that the writer INTENDED Doomsday to be fighting at remarkable speeds--to the point where his raw speed was one of the predominate factors as to why he was trouncing Superman (as Superman himself explicitly states.)

...I really don't understand what's so hard about this..? Doomsday is F-A-S-T. Superman knows it, amped Superman knows it, Guy knows it, Booster knows it, Maxima knows it, etc. srsly

Major Disaster
I don't think that scan can be argued with tbh.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Galan007
That's what I thought.

So when I see this scan:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/dd-speed1.jpg

I am able to understand that the writer INTENDED Doomsday to be fighting at remarkable speeds--to the point where his raw speed was one of the predominate factors as to why he was trouncing Superman (as Superman himself explicitly states.)

...I really don't understand what's so hard about this..? Doomsday is F-A-S-T. Superman knows it, amped Superman knows it, Guy knows it, Booster knows it, Maxima knows it, etc. srsly

I'll see what Bada thinks.

Odekahn
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Here's your soap box buddy, so lets see those alleged speed feats.

Doomsday doesn't have any speed feats. He got into some slug fests with some characters who got their speed nerfed down so a Hulk expy would stand a chance and make an entertaining enemy. Awesome.

Why would a writer purposefully nerf and slow down Superman to fight a brand new villain instead of just making the new villain fast like Superman?

Doesn't make much sense does it?

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
You repeatedly fail to understand that the WRITER put those words in Guy's mouth. Why? Because the writer INTENDED Doomsday to be a remarkably fast being--a fact he proved when his combat speed proved sufficient to overwhelm characters like Maxima, Superman, amped Superman, Booster, Bloodwynd/J'onn, etc.

I honestly don't understand what isn't computing with you guys. Doomsday not only has statements regarding his speed, he has feats to back them up. Statements+feats=incontrovertible proof, last time I checked.

confused

This applies to so many brick like characters that its next to ridiculous to even post this.

carver9
Originally posted by Odekahn
Why would a writer purposefully nerf and slow down Superman to fight a brand new villain instead of just making the new villain fast like Superman?

Doesn't make much sense does it?

Hhhhmmm, was Sentry, Genis, Gladiator, Hyperion, or any other speed brick that fought Hulk nerfed down?

Galan007
Originally posted by -Pr-
I'll see what Bada thinks. I bet he'll think what any logical person would think. stick out tongue

Originally posted by carver9
confused

This applies to so many brick like characters that its next to ridiculous to even post this. Hardly any bricks have so consistently been regarded to be as fast as DD.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by carver9
Hhhhmmm, was Sentry, Genis, Gladiator, Hyperion, or any other speed brick that fought Hulk nerfed down? While your comparison fails your point stands.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
Hhhhmmm, was Sentry, Genis, Gladiator, Hyperion, or any other speed brick that fought Hulk nerfed down?

And here's where you miss the point entirely.

Hulk has 50 years of feats of him not having super-speed. To make the fight fair to Hulk, you make them slow down to face him.

Superman had, at the time, 8 years of feats showing him as having super-speed. To make Doomsday a challenge for him, they sped him up to face him. Simple.

Originally posted by Galan007
I bet he'll think what any logical person would think. stick out tongue

Hardly any bricks have so consistently been regarded to be as fast as DD.

Probably.

Odekahn
Originally posted by carver9
Hhhhmmm, was Sentry, Genis, Gladiator, Hyperion, or any other speed brick that fought Hulk nerfed down?

Did those characters make their debut against Hulk? Were those characters created to kill Hulk? Was one of the reoccuring themes of the story arcs that those fights took place in Hulk's speed?

Malkaedus
I really like Hulk, but Doomsday is faster.

Kryptonian minds, like all true speedsters, work in superspeed as well. This is why everything appears slow to them.

Even if Hulk was as physically fast as Doomsday (whish he isn't), he wouldnt be able to keep up mentally with him. Doomsday would see everything coming at him in slowmotion and respond accordingly.

Parmaniac
Ok I must say in the beginning of another thread I was on the side that DD isn't fast, I'm not sure anymore tbh but I'd like to know do you guys (DD supporters) think he can blitz Hulk or Thor? Pr doesn't I've seen his reply in the beginning of this thread.

My problem is Superman can be ridicoules fast in combat and, at least in my opinion, he could blitz Thor and Hulk speedwise I don't see DD doing this though that's my problem with the topic.

john allerdyce
Originally posted by Galan007
That's what I thought.

So when I see this scan:
http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x402/galanpics/dd-speed1.jpg

I am able to understand that the writer INTENDED Doomsday to be fighting at remarkable speeds--to the point where his raw speed was one of the predominate factors as to why he was trouncing Superman (as Superman himself explicitly states.)

...I really don't understand what's so hard about this..? Doomsday is F-A-S-T. Superman knows it, amped Superman knows it, Guy knows it, Booster knows it, Maxima knows it, etc. srsly yeah it really isn't debatable. doomsday has high level combat speed.




anyway doomsday, then thor, then lobo, then hulk.

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
I bet he'll think what any logical person would think. stick out tongue

Hardly any bricks have so consistently been regarded to be as fast as DD.

So besides DOS, Doomsday speed was mentioned again?

carver9
Originally posted by Odekahn
Did those characters make their debut against Hulk? Were those characters created to kill Hulk? Was one of the reoccuring themes of the story arcs that those fights took place in Hulk's speed?

What's the point of bringing up debuts? If Doomsday was fast, this would continue past his debut? Characters higher showings is during their first appearance...the down part about this is, it doesn't consistently stay with the character.

-Pr-
Originally posted by carver9
So besides DOS, Doomsday speed was mentioned again?

Yes.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Ok I must say in the beginning of another thread I was on the side that DD isn't fast, I'm not sure anymore tbh but I'd like to know do you guys (DD supporters) think he can blitz Hulk or Thor? Pr doesn't I've seen his reply in the beginning of this thread.

My problem is Superman can be ridicoules fast in combat and, at least in my opinion, he could blitz Thor and Hulk speedwise I don't see DD doing this though that's my problem with the topic.

What kind of blitz are we talking about?

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by -Pr-
Except that you'd have to have a basis for comparison to prove they were slowed down. Doomsday in his first appearance wasn't like a character that had 40+ years of history.

To even believe they were slowed down, you'd have had to show an example of Doomsday having a speed limit or being unable to react to something.

Doomsday was just that fast.

You mean like hypothetically lets say Superman was doing a tv interview parallel to Doomsday beating the JLA? So we could so how fast that was happening relative to real time? Or lets say, civilians being witnesses to Superman and Doomsday's fight, and commenting and even reacting to the collateral damage? Or maybe like news crew helicopter with Lois and Jimmy fallowing the action with no difficult? Or maybe random fodder backing up Superman with lasers? Or Superman having a conversation with Lois mid battle with Doomsday? Or maybe Jimmy documenting the fight with flash photography? Because... all of that happened in DOS...

Doomsday wasn't "speed up" to fight Superman. Superman was slowed down. It's plain as day.

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
So besides DOS, Doomsday speed was mentioned again? Yes. In both H/P and DD Wars, Doomsday used his speed to trounce Superman (and the JLA.)

Remember, during DoS, Doomsday was at his WEAKEST powerlevels, yet he was still fighting at superspeed. His H/P and DD Wars incarnations were considerably more powerful in ALL areas, so they'd obviously have superspeed as well.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by -Pr-
What kind of blitz are we talking about? Dishing out combos before reaction like 10+ blows.

-Pr-
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You mean like hypothetically lets say Superman was doing a tv interview parallel to Doomsday beating the JLA? So we could so how fast that was happening relative to real time? Or lets say, civilians being witnesses to Superman and Doomsday's fight, and commenting and even reacting to the collateral damage? Or maybe like news crew helicopter with Lois and Jimmy fallowing the action with no difficult? Because... all of that happened in DOS...

Doomsday wasn't "speed up" to fight Superman. Superman was slowed down. It's plain as day.

Except that it was shown that people were having difficulty following it at times. Hence the mention of them being nothing but blurs.

Also, how does how long the fight took against the JLA impact Doomsday's speed?

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Dishing out combos before reaction like 10+ blows.

That's not how Doomsday fights, so no.

Odekahn
Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Doomsday wasn't "speed up" to fight Superman. Superman was slowed down. It's plain as day.

You're only half right here. Doomsday wasn't "sped up." He was CREATED that fast.

carver9
Originally posted by -Pr-
Except that it was shown that people were having difficulty following it at times. Hence the mention of them being nothing but blurs.

Also, how does how long the fight took against the JLA impact Doomsday's speed?



That's not how Doomsday fights, so no.

One Dumb broke that scene down perfectly.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Let me know when you're able to make a coherent statement. Sorry if that sounds arbitrarily dismissive. But nothing of what you just posted makes a lick of sense or seems connected to a logical point. Hulk has those "small trail like art" also.

In the meantime, Superman's flying speed while tackling Doomsday through walls =/= Doomsday fighting at superspeeds.

facepalm

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Even%20More%20Random/Doomsday01.jpg

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
Yes. In both H/P and DD Wars, Doomsday used his speed to trounce Superman (and the JLA.)

Remember, during DoS, Doomsday was at his WEAKEST powerlevels, yet he was still fighting at superspeed. His H/P and DD Wars incarnations were considerably more powerful in ALL areas, so they'd obviously have superspeed as well.

rolling on floor laughing Can you please show these speed fts.

Galan007
Flight speed=/=combat speed, genius.

We're not talking about who would win in a race between Supes and Doomsday, we are talking about how fast they move in a FIGHT.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by -Pr-
Except that it was shown that people were having difficulty following it at times. Hence the mention of them being nothing but blurs.

Also, how does how long the fight took against the JLA impact Doomsday's speed?


And you don't see a difference between Superman's normal speed, and a difficult yet still possible to fallow "blur"? Hard to fallow motion blur is street level man. Superman's got a speed vasectomy in DOS, he was jobbed out to Doomsday. Plain and simple.

It shows that the fight played out real time and not at super speed "we just didn't realizes it was super speed but it was the writers intention it was super speed", like Galan suggested.

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
rolling on floor laughing Can you please show these speed fts. Most/all of Doomsday and Superman's battle in Metropolis took place at superspeed--hence Superman's comment in the scan I posted a few pages ago.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Odekahn
You're only half right here. Doomsday wasn't "sped up." He was CREATED that fast.

Except... he wasn't.

You know it's amusing when the Thorbags can make a better case for Thor being FTL than Doomsday fanboys.

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
Flight speed=/=combat speed, genius.

We're not talking about who would win in a race between Supes and Doomsday, we are talking about how fast they move in a FIGHT.

And that's when the onlookers stated SUPERMAN was moving in a blur. During the time he blitzed Doomsday.

I'm asking you to show me these speed fts after DOS. Would you like examples of what I am asking for Galan?

-Pr-
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And you don't see a difference between Superman's normal speed, and a difficult yet still possible to fallow "blur"? Hard to fallow motion blur is street level man. Superman's got a speed vasectomy in DOS, he was jobbed out to Doomsday. Plain and simple.

It shows that the fight played out real time and not at super speed "we just didn't realizes it was super speed but it was the writers intention it was super speed", like Galan suggested.

Based on what? Are we just ignoring all the evidence that supports Doomsday having speed now?

The JLA has speed too.

Originally posted by carver9
And that's when the onlookers stated SUPERMAN was moving in a blur. During the time he blitzed Doomsday.

I'm asking you to show me these speed fts after DOS. Would you like examples of what I am asking for Galan?

He's not going to waste his time, because you've been shown all this before, and still you just pretend you "forgot" or some other excuse.

carver9
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Except... he wasn't.

You know it's amusing when the Thorbags can make a better case for Thor being FTL than Doomsday fanboys.

Lol.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Galan007
Most/all of Doomsday and Superman's battle in Metropolis took place at superspeed--hence Superman's comment in the scan I posted a few pages ago.

And yet it was witnessed by civilians, documented by Jimmy with flash photography, Superman received back up from human fodder more than once... I guess everyone in Metropolis is FTL. Apparently that is more logical that Superman jobbing?

Philosophía
Originally posted by Major Disaster
I don't think that scan can be argued with tbh. You probably haven't seen OneDumbGo argue that Superman was Hulk-level in speed when he said that, because he was tired and hurt, and he like.. totally couldn't move a helicopter with Lois and Jimmy very fast.

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
And that's when the onlookers stated SUPERMAN was moving in a blur. During the time he blitzed Doomsday. That was FLIGHT SPEED, Einstein. Vastly different than COMBAT SPEED.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm asking you to show me these speed fts after DOS. Would you like examples of what I am asking for Galan? They are in my DD respect thread.

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
Most/all of Doomsday and Superman's battle in Metropolis took place at superspeed--hence Superman's comment in the scan I posted a few pages ago.

So Lois or any other Metropolis citizens didn't see any of the fight? I could have sworn the fight was being recorded and published on tv for the world to see.

Galan007
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Apparently that is more logical that Superman jobbing? Superman was jobbing to himself (it was a thought bubble) as he was getting trounced?

Yeah, you don't low-ball. laughing out loud

carver9
Originally posted by Galan007
That was FLIGHT SPEED, Einstein. Vastly different than COMBAT SPEED.

They are in my DD respect thread.

I know...it was Superman flight speed which was the comment about the blur from the onlooker.

Galan007
Originally posted by carver9
I know...it was Superman flight speed which was the comment about the blur from the onlooker. Very good.

Combat speed is what we're talking about here.

carver9
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And yet it was witnessed by civilians, documented by Jimmy with flash photography, Superman received back up from human fodder more than once... I guess everyone in Metropolis is FTL. Apparently that is more logical that Superman jobbing?

Lol.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by -Pr-
Based on what? Are we just ignoring all the evidence that supports Doomsday having speed now?

The JLA has speed too.

I just told you... like five minutes ago...

But the reported Superman was talking to was baseline human. Everything that happened in DOS took place in a speed that was slow enough that normal humans could fallow the action. That can't be argued. Normal human perception is a constant, Superman's speed is a variable, we don't know how fast was moving, but we do know normal people could perceive his fight. Ipso facto Superman's speed was nerfed.

Odekahn
Originally posted by carver9
And that's when the onlookers stated SUPERMAN was moving in a blur. During the time he blitzed Doomsday.


Then why was it stated in present tense? It was said "I... I think the red-an-blue thing IS Superman. I don't want to know what the other thing is!"

If it was just a blur flying by, then by the time he got a couple of words out they (Supes and DD) would already be gone. Thus, it would have been said/written in past tense.

Superman hit him with a flying attack but that's not the end of the fight. There's a panel before and after that.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Galan007
Superman was jobbing to himself (it was a thought bubble) as he was getting trounced?

Yeah, you don't low-ball. laughing out loud

He was jobbed out period. Why would the narration be held to a different standard than the art and general plotting of the story? confused

Parmaniac
Originally posted by -Pr-
The JLA has speed too. And that's the crackpoint now suddenly everything is Superman fast, Steel also fought DD (not the same DD I know). Going by this unquantifable speed equivalation I can make legit cases of Spider-man and others being FTL.

Galan007
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He was jobbed out period. Why would the narration be held to a different standard than the art and general plotting of the story? confused So Superman was jobbing? Guy was jobbing? Maxima was jobbing? Booster was jobbing? Everyone who said DD was moving FAST, as they were getting owned by him was jobbing?

Yeah that makes more sense then taking the writer's word literally. srsly

Major Disaster

carver9
Originally posted by Odekahn
Then why was it stated in present tense? It was said "I... I think the red-an-blue thing IS Superman. I don't want to know what the other thing is!"

If it was just a blur flying by, then by the time he got a couple of words out they (Supes and DD) would already be gone. Thus, it would have been said/written in past tense.

Superman hit him with a flying attack but that's not the end of the fight. There's a panel before and after that.

We clearly see Superman rushing Doomsday. The only person that was a blur during that scene was Superman...Superman taking Doomsday with him caused Doomsday to move in a blur fashion as well since he was bullrushed.

carver9
Originally posted by Parmaniac
And that's the crackpoint now suddenly everything is Superman fast, Steel also fought DD (not the same DD I know). Going by this unquantifable speed equivalation I can make legit cases of Spider-man and others being FTL.

Booster gold fought Doomsday again as well and held his own. Briefly.

Odekahn
Originally posted by carver9
We clearly see Superman rushing Doomsday. The only person that was a blur during that scene was Superman...Superman taking Doomsday with him caused Doomsday to move in a blur fashion as well since he was bullrushed.

You aren't addressing my point. Why was it said in present tense instead of past tense? Because they are watching them fight, not just a flyby.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by Parmaniac
And that's the crackpoint now suddenly everything is Superman fast, Steel also fought DD (not the same DD I know). Going by this unquantifable speed equivalation I can make legit cases of Spider-man and others being FTL.

Exactly.

It's the exact same case people use to argue that Hulk has super speed... and yet everyone who believes it's a viable argument for Doomsday laughs and shits all over the Hulk argument. Crazy double standard.

FYI Hulk and Doomsday fanboys are both wrong. Neither of the characters have a level of super speed worth talking about, BUT if one of them does than the both do. Anyone capable of forming an objective train of thought should be able to see that.

KuRuPT Thanosi
Originally posted by Galan007
I bet he'll think what any logical person would think. stick out tongue

Hardly any bricks have so consistently been regarded to be as fast as DD.

Whether or not DD has super-speed I will not get into too heavily. I think if you weight the characters statements (who have super speed) as literal.. then sure he's pretty fast. However, he doesn't really have any quantifiable speed feats to place hiim where people are wanting to place him. So, I guess it just depends on what you want to weight the most.

That said buddy, I wouldn't say he's consistently been regarded as fast. Rex, Wars even HP... didn't have nearly the references that DOS had.. wouldn't you agree?

-Pr-
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I just told you... like five minutes ago...

But the reported Superman was talking to was baseline human. Everything that happened in DOS took place in a speed that was slow enough that normal humans could fallow the action. That can't be argued. Normal human perception is a constant, Superman's speed is a variable, we don't know how fast was moving, but we do know normal people could perceive his fight. Ipso facto Superman's speed was nerfed.

no expression

I don't see how you can be serious.

Bottom line: Doomsday has feats of speed. Doomsday has people telling other people how fast he is.

How does he not have speed? Because some humans managed to pick it up on a news camera?

There's more evidence for him having speed (outside DOS too), than there is against it. erm

Originally posted by Parmaniac
And that's the crackpoint now suddenly everything is Superman fast, Steel also fought DD (not the same DD I know). Going by this unquantifable speed equivalation I can make legit cases of Spider-man and others being FTL.

That isn't what I'm saying at all.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Exactly.

It's the exact same case people use to argue that Hulk has super speed... and yet everyone who believes it's a viable argument for Doomsday laughs and shits all over the Hulk argument. Crazy double standard.

FYI Hulk and Doomsday fanboys are both wrong. Neither of the characters have a level of super speed worth talking about, BUT if one of them does than the both do. Anyone capable of forming an objective train of thought should be able to see that.

So if Hulk can't have it, Doomsday can't either? How mature.

Galan007
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That said buddy, I wouldn't say he's consistently been regarded as fast. Rex, Wars even HP... didn't have nearly the references that DOS had.. wouldn't you agree? Rex is a weaksauce version of the character. I don't regard him in nearly the same league that I do H/P and DD Wars.

Odekahn
The fact that his speed is referenced again in HP just cements it. It may not have been as heavily stated (why beat us over the head with it again when it's already been established in DOS) but it's there.

srankmissingnin
Originally posted by -Pr-
no expression

I don't see how you can be serious.

Bottom line: Doomsday has feats of speed. Doomsday has people telling other people how fast he is.

How does he not have speed? Because some humans managed to pick it up on a news camera?

There's more evidence for him having speed (outside DOS too), than there is against it. erm



That isn't what I'm saying at all.



So if Hulk can't have it, Doomsday can't either? How mature.

Then show some speed feats! Show me one single speed feat from Doomsday. It's been two decades since he first appeared, if DC intended for him to have super speed we would have seen it played out by now.

None of the characters that fought Doomsday in that DOS showcased any significant levels of super speed during combat, and alternatively - as I have pointed out - we were shown how the fight was being perceived by normal civilians half a dozen times or more throughout the arc. Doomsday was never shown to have super speed, and he doesn't have a single quantifiable, concrete speed feat under his belt... but because he fought a jobbed out Superman who was operating at 1/10000th of his speed potential you've decided to arbitrarily attribute him with super speed? Get real.

Maturity has nothing to do with it, it's the same [email protected] argument, they are either both true or both false.

Philosophía
Originally posted by Parmaniac
And that's the crackpoint now suddenly everything is Superman fast, Steel also fought DD (not the same DD I know). Going by this unquantifable speed equivalation I can make legit cases of Spider-man and others being FTL. There's a difference between fighting somebody with high-end superspeed, and fighting a somebody with high-end superspeed who explicitly mentions speed as something has a hard time matching. Mongul gets in punchouts with Superman, but that doesn't mean that he is on his level of speed. On the contrary, when Superman actually used his level of superspeed, he effortlessly punks him.

Doomsday is a different case. Superman specifically mentions speed as something he has a hard time matching. There's no logical way to get around that, unless you want to dumb it down and say that Superman was actually Captain America-level in speed or something equally stupid. It's about as clear-cut as anything combat-speed comparative can possibly get. And it's corroborated by everything that has happened up until then - which is everyone getting overwhelmed by Doomsday's speed and making statements on it - whether it's comparing him to Flash, or being stupid-faced by how fast he is.

How anybody can ignore any of this, and say that his superspeed is questionably is simply astonishing.

Parmaniac
Originally posted by -Pr-
That isn't what I'm saying at all. But that's the only logical explanation, if Supes has problems keeping up with him speedwise in battle he should operate at the top of his abilities, if that's the case we can or better said have to take a look at his best fighting speed feats (that happened before DOS) and considering how insanely fast Superman is/can be combatwise, DD should be able to blitz most characters in combat especially considering that DD isn't holding back his strength or pulling his speed in any way given his feral nature.

That's my problem with the entire topic, I had no prob if a Lantern wouldn't be able to keep up with but it Supes.

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