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Sabertooth(Adamantium) and Kraven vs Lizard and Beast

This fight isn't fair. Sabertooth makes this a stomp.

Ok, well in that case, how about Sabertooth without Adamantium

Originally posted by Greysen93
Ok, well in that case, how about Sabertooth without Adamantium

I was going to say that even without adamantium, Creed has feats that may allow him to kick Kraven over to the other team and still win this.

It's not a stomp. Beast is smarter than the 3 combined, and Lizard has his telepathy, and is just as strong, fast and vicious as Sabretooth.

Kraven is a non factor imo.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
It's not a stomp. Beast is smarter than the 3 combined, and Lizard has his telepathy, and is just as strong, fast and vicious as Sabretooth.

Kraven is a non factor imo.


Not sure if Lizard would be a threat to Creed. The Black Cat had a full out scrap with the Lizard, and held her on toe to toe. Creed massacred the Morlocks, and he would absolutely skin the Beast IMO.

Originally posted by Stoic
Not sure if Lizard would be a threat to Creed. The Black Cat had a full out scrap with the Lizard, and held her on toe to toe. Creed massacred the Morlocks, and he would absolutely skin the Beast IMO.
Black cat beat creed once too.mmm

Originally posted by abhilegend
Black cat beat creed once too.mmm


Did she really? Was it in his face without jumping around and dodging like she fought the Lizard?

Originally posted by Stoic
Did she really? Was it in his face without jumping around and dodging like she fought the Lizard?
She paved the street with his face IIRC.

Nice job ignoring the context of the fact Sabre-tooth did not even have define powers at the time. All he had was senses of some sort. no healing factor or any other of his powers.

Spider-Man beat Sabretooth too, pretty easily by the way.

Everybody has their low showings, even Sabretooth.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
Spider-Man beat Sabretooth too, pretty easily by the way.

Everybody has their low showings, even Sabretooth.

When are you refferring to? because sabre-tooth beat on both Punisher and spiderman at the same time before.






Soryr but there a huge difference between low showings and showings prior to being a defined character with defined powers. You are being misleading.

Sabretooth's powers weren't defined so it doesn't count.

Obviously his healing factor needed to be stated because even if he didn't need to use it, it had to have been stated for it to count.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Nice job ignoring the context of the fact Sabre-tooth did not even have define powers at the time. All he had was senses of some sort. no healing factor or any other of his powers.
I'm just joking around. You think that I know about black cat beating sabretooth and doesn't know the context. That doesn't invalidate his loss like wolverine fans pretend btw.

While we're at it...

Thanos' limits have never been defined. None of his losses count.

This logic pleases me greatly

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Sabretooth's powers weren't defined so it doesn't count.

Obviously his healing factor needed to be stated because even if he didn't need to use it, it had to have been stated for it to count.

Yes it is not accurate assessment of a character to uses them prior to there powers being aprt of there character. i not even sure why you think to argue this. At the time of the event in question his only ability was some sort of animal senses and claws.

he had no ehaling factor, he had no superhuman physical abilities. Thats a huge difference in his character.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm just joking around. You think that I know about black cat beating sabretooth and doesn't know the context. That doesn't invalidate his loss like wolverine fans pretend btw.

yes it does. How is it valid to current sabre-tooth when he did not have any of the powers he has now>? riddle me that genius.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
While we're at it...

Thanos' limits have never been defined. None of his losses count.

This logic pleases me greatly

There a difference between limits and actaully have define power.

Sabre-tooth did not have a healing factor period. It was not simply undefined limit. He did not have one. Your example is absolute shit.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
yes it does. How is it valid to current sabre-tooth when he did not have any of the powers he has now>? riddle me that genius.
Retcons genius.Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
While we're at it...

Thanos' limits have never been defined. None of his losses count.

This logic pleases me greatly
Thanos has lost?
Superman has no limits either, literally.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
There a difference between limits and actaully have define power.

Sabre-tooth did not have a healing factor period. It was not simply undefined. he did not have one. Your example is absolute shit. Thanos didn't have a clear healing factor in his fight against Odin, telepathy, matter manip, and probably some other random powers.

We're on the same page here dum dum.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Thanos has lost?
Superman has no limits either, literally. Not anymore, no.

Wolverine fans make it easy on us high level characters. Make them even more powerful.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Not anymore, no.

Wolverine fans make it easy on us high level characters. Make them even more powerful.
Ah, starlin. Quan loves thee.
Yeah, everytime superman has been koed is wrong. You are all superman haters. Superman can't be koed since he is invulnerable and has a healing factor.
blabla
dur

Apparently recognizing that Sabretooth lacked a healing factor or super human stats at the time of a certain defeat is an trivial irrelevancy that somehow equates to Thanos being unbeatable... and something about Superman?

Morons.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Apparently recognizing that Sabretooth lacked a healing factor or super human stats at the time of a certain defeat is an trivial irrelevancy that somehow equates to Thanos being unbeatable... and something about Superman?

Morons.
Apparently retcons mean zilch for some comic fans. Here I thought both wolverine and sabretooth were in spidey's range in strength when they were introduced according to some wolverine fans.
srug

Originally posted by abhilegend
Apparently retcons mean zilch for some comic fans. Here I thought both wolverine and sabretooth were in spidey's range in strength when they were introduced according to some wolverine fans.
srug

Yes, to you apparently. Retroactively giving Sabretooth powers, calls into question the validity of all of his feats prior to said retcon. One some level they still may have taken place (or may not have), but we are no longer privy to how events unfolded.

Wolverine was intended to be a Spider-man level character when he was first created, which at the time of Wolverine's first appearance was only around class 2.

Sabretooth solos.

I will say what no one wants to say outright.
trying to use Blackcat and Sabes low showing before he was defined in any way is trollish. it would be like us using the 1st issues of Superman or Batman getting beat up by one of his crappy rogue villains like Penguin.

dont ignore context and character development.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
Sabretooth solos.

I will say what no one wants to say outright.
trying to use Blackcat and Sabes low showing before he was defined in any way is trollish. it would be like us using the 1st issues of Superman or Batman getting beat up by one of his crappy rogue villains like Penguin.

dont ignore context and character development.

It's not "trollish," it's just blatant trolling.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yes, to you apparently. Retroactively giving Sabretooth powers, calls into question the validity of all of his feats prior to said retcon. One some level they still may have taken place (or may not have), but we are no longer privy to how events unfolded.

Wolverine was intended to be a Spider-man level character when he was first created, which at the time of Wolverine's first appearance was only around class 2.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
Sabretooth solos.

I will say what no one wants to say outright.
trying to use Blackcat and Sabes low showing before he was defined in any way is trollish. it would be like us using the 1st issues of Superman or Batman getting beat up by one of his crappy rogue villains like Penguin.

dont ignore context and character development.
I know and I don't think that we can use it in threads but to say that it doesn't count because they don't had any clean definition of their powers is false.

Originally posted by Nietzschean
Sabretooth solos.

I will say what no one wants to say outright.
trying to use Blackcat and Sabes low showing before he was defined in any way is trollish. it would be like us using the 1st issues of Superman or Batman getting beat up by one of his crappy rogue villains like Penguin.

dont ignore context and character development.
Eh, you make it seem Sabretooth was a new character when he was fighting Black Cat.

He was not.

Stop making a big deal out of it. Sabretooth > Black Cat, everybody knows that. It's just bad writing.

This being said, I still think Lizard is just as fast, strong and vicious as Sabretooth. I think Sabretooth wins 7/10 against Lizard, but Lizard can take some wins too. Especially with his telepathy.

1. Don't think anyone here is seriously using the BC/ST fight as an argument.
2. Sabertooth's powers weren't established when he fought Black Cat.
3. Still, Black Cat defeating Sabertooth is in continuity and was referenced by Felicia few years ago.
4. Sabertoth did not beat Spider-man and Punisher at the same time. That's not what happened.
5. Team 1 wins. Sabertooth being on team 1 is overkill. Current Kraven is a beast as well. Team 2's only chance - Lizard's telepathy but there's a chance it will make Creed go berserk. And that won't do team 2 any good.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
One some level they still may have taken place (or may not have), but we are no longer privy to how events unfolded.

Wolverine was intended to be a Spider-man level character when he was first created, which at the time of Wolverine's first appearance was only around class 2. So because he wasn't fully fleshed out, we now don't know how the events unfolded, that we clearly saw drawn out in a comic?

Spider-Man... class 2... even though Spider-Man always had super strength. His limits weren't explored (surprise, just like Thanos and Superman)

Why are you calling other people trolls exactly?

Originally posted by SamZED

4. Sabertoth did not beat Spider-man and Punisher at the same time. That's not what happened.


I said beat on. Which is accurate description. He did not defeat them but he did beat on them little then clasped the roof on them. He did get the better of them, but did not defeat them

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I said beat on. Which is accurate description. He did not defeat them but he did beat on them little then clasped the roof on them. He did get the better of them, but did not defeat them I must've missread your post. Sorry.

The only reason why Sabretooth wasn't completely defeated, is because Spider-Man was constantly trying to stop Punisher from killing Sabretooth.

Punisher: die you crazy psychopath

Spider-Man: no, we can't kill him

Punisher: out of my way webslinger

Sabretooth: I'm out of here !

Sabretooth was lucky Spider-Man was there, because Punisher really messed him up.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
I said beat on. Which is accurate description. He did not defeat them but he did beat on them little then clasped the roof on them. He did get the better of them, but did not defeat them
Not even close.

Spider-Man and Sabretooth fought like 3 panels, nothing special. Sabretooth fled, Spider-Man and Punisher followed him, Sabretooth attacked them again and Punisher almost killed him.

That's it.

You know it's a good KMC thread when it brings out Wolverine, Thanos, and Superman fans at the same time.

http://smiliesftw.com/x/cookiemonster2.gif

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You know it's a good KMC thread when it brings out Wolverine, Thanos, Thor and Superman fans at the same time.

http://smiliesftw.com/x/cookiemonster2.gif
Fixed.
dur

Originally posted by abhilegend
Fixed.
dur

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss225/OdinBorson/ThorIlikeit.jpg

Sabes and Kraven should take this comfortably. Creed always seems to have Hank's number in a fight, whether it be in the Sabretooth: In the Red Zone one-shot or the recent issue of Wolverine and the X-men (though I hope Hank comes back and destroys him). He also took out Dark Beast as well. I can see Kraven's fight with Lizard taking a while, giving Creed enough time to join the battle after taking out Beast and giving Lizard more than he can handle.

Yeah, I think Sabertooth and Kraven have got this, but good arguments.

Kraven so troll but his ability to jump around like a monkey is inferior to beasts by far. Sabertooth solos w/ or w/out adamantium imo.

I really don't think he could solo them both without adamantium

Team One, Sabes and beast actually fought recently. Despite what was said and beast doing the suicide leap into space without a helmet I would say sabes (w/o adamantium)> beast.

Yeah, I can definitely see that, but I don't think Sabertooth can beat Lizard and Beast at the same time

Originally posted by Greysen93
Yeah, I can definitely see that, but I don't think Sabertooth can beat Lizard and Beast at the same time

I think Kraven can hold off lizard until sabes is done with beast, i mean he isnt as physically strong as lizard but he is really skilled.

Yeah, I can see that, I think Team 1 would win overall, but I don't thik Sabertooth is strong enough to take them on by himself

Originally posted by Uriel005
Sabertooth solos w/ or w/out adamantium imo. No he doesn't.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
No he doesn't.
Umm he might actaully.


Neither beast nor lizard match up very well with Sabre-tooth at all. beast been taken down in a single pannel by Wolverine. he get utterly mauled by Sabre-tooth. Lizard also has not lasted very long against Wolverine and he would not last any longer against Sabre-tooth.


Sabre-tooth adamatium would beat them and it very easily arguable that even non adamitum sabre-tooth would win. Beast would not last very long. Lizard by him self can not defeat Sabre-tooth. He one of those characters that matches up much better against Spiderman then Sabre-tooth. While people like sand-man would be a horrible fight for sabre-tooth but not for spiderman ect.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Umm he might actaully.


Neither beast nor lizard match up very well with Sabre-tooth at all. beast been taken down in a single pannel by Wolverine. he get utterly mauled by Sabre-tooth. Lizard also has not lasted very long against Wolverine and he would not last any longer against Sabre-tooth.


Sabre-tooth adamatium would beat them and it very easily arguable that even non adamitum sabre-tooth would win. Beast would not last very long. Lizard by him self can not defeat Sabre-tooth. He one of those characters that matches up much better against Spiderman then Sabre-tooth. While people like sand-man would be a horrible fight for sabre-tooth but not for spiderman ect. lizard would be good matchup for sabes

he's faster and stronger...I do think sabes would beat lizard one on one

but if beast is there to help lizard, then the team can take it

I agree, Sabertooth could take either one on one, but together I think they would win.

Originally posted by Starscream M
lizard would be good matchup for sabes

he's faster and stronger...I do think sabes would beat lizard one on one

but if beast is there to help lizard, then the team can take it
Not that good. He pretty much the same character except less formidable fighter by far with vastly inferior damage soak.

No he not. Sabre-tooth is just as strong and fast.




They dont, Beast would not last long at all in melee oriented fight With sabre-tooth. He be lucky to last mroe then a few seconds.

I really don't think he could take them both, with both of them together they would find a way to beat him.

Creed just easily beat down Beast in five panels without taking a single hit, while toying with Hank and not taking the fight seriously. How powerful do you think Lizard is that he some how more than balances out that scale?

Beast is at most a mild nuance to Creed, and Lizard is in the same boat. Blood lusted in a forum match, Sabretooth destroys both of them with ease.

Originally posted by Greysen93
I really don't think he could take them both, with both of them together they would find a way to beat him.

How? Beast consistently not a threat to like anyone. He loses badly to all sorts of people. Capt beat him down, so has Daredevil, Wolverine beat him in a single pannel ect.


Beast won't last for more then a few seconds. Lizards brings nothing to the table that creed does not deal with regularly Lizard extremely formiable against Spideman because he has the speed and strength to contend, but also durability that makes it difficult for Spiderman to put down quickly with blunt force. Sabre-tooth is not using blunt force, he has adamatium claws. Even if they went hit for hit, Lizard would go down way before Creed. He simply does not match up well with Sabre-tooth.

Well, I agree that Beast isn't a huge factor, but it's definitely still better than Lizard being by himself. But, I stated earlier on that this is Sabertooth without Adamantium, so the adamantium claws aren't an issue

Originally posted by Greysen93
Well, I agree that Beast isn't a huge factor, but it's definitely still better than Lizard being by himself. But, I stated earlier on that this is Sabertooth without Adamantium, so the adamantium claws aren't an issue
your first post say adamatium sabre-tooth, but regardless his claws will go right through Lizard hide. He not using blunt force he using piercing damage which lizard jsut can't hang with.


Beast is almost a non factor, he get ripped apart right off the bat.

My first post says adamantium, but a couple posts after that it says sabertooth without adamantium. I don't think sabertooth's claws will do a whole bunch to Lizard. I agree that Beast won't do a whole bunch, but he can still help.

Originally posted by Greysen93
My first post says adamantium, but a couple posts after that it says sabertooth without adamantium. I don't think sabertooth's claws will do a whole bunch to Lizard. I agree that Beast won't do a whole bunch, but he can still help.

His bone claws can rend through solid steel...

Originally posted by Greysen93
My first post says adamantium, but a couple posts after that it says sabertooth without adamantium. I don't think sabertooth's claws will do a whole bunch to Lizard. I agree that Beast won't do a whole bunch, but he can still help.


Why on earth would you think Sabre-tooth claws would not do anything? You do realies his bones are super humanly durable right? And that he a multi tonner comparable to lizard in strength right? Or the fact he easily cuts throw rocks, stone, steel, superhuman durable characters with his claws?

I know his claws can go through steel, but I don't think that just his claws are going to be enough to beat lizard with beast's help.

Originally posted by Greysen93
I know his claws can go through steel, but I don't think that just his claws are going to be enough to beat lizard with beast's help.


Again why dont you? Lizard can easily be put down through piericng damage. So there really no reason to assume Sabre-tooth claws won't put him down when he starts taking mortal wounds. Like being gutted.

Also what Beats going to do when his throat ripped out? arm ripped out? Gutted? heart ripped out?


Also what makes you think beast is going to be any help? In order to be effective beats has to go in melee, which he can't match sabre-tooth in. So please explain to me what Beast is going to do that going to help lizard win?

Wolverine beat Lizard pretty easy by cutting off his tail. If Sabretooth figures that weakness out, it might be as easy a fight for him as well.

I get exactly what you're saying, I just personally think that with Lizard's strength and speed and Beast's speed and intelligence, they could figure out a way to take him out.

Doesn't Lizard have that some form of telepathy now?

He mind raped Spider-man in their last encounter.

Really hard battle, now with Kraven's immortality and Lizard's telepathy. If Kraven can reform or wouldn't be affected by a Telepathically controlled Sabretooth cutting him to bits, he could eventually win this. If Lizard could control the undead Kraven, then i don't see team 1 winning. The other 3 would end up being Lizard's posse.

Originally posted by deathlife
Doesn't Lizard have that some form of telepathy now?

He mind raped Spider-man in their last encounter. He does, he mindraped the entire city. The problem is, he himself has little control over his telepathy. Remember what happened to Ock when Lizard used it on him? Otto wasn't scared or weak, he went berserk. Now imagine it happening to Creed. Bad idea..

Yeah, I think Lizard could possibly use telepathy on them , but I agree I don't know if it would help to use it on Sabertooth.

Wow. Lots of Beast hate here. Beast is formidable when he has to be. I agree, it's not too often they show him actually fighting in the last decade or so, which is sad. Being multitudes smarter than all three combined isn't necessarily a disadvantage either.

Anyway, there's a way people haven't mentioned much yet. Beast could take on Kraven and stomp him out of the fight real fast. Lizard (I think) would be stalemating Sabretooth. Once Kraven is out of the picture, it's Beast and Lizard vs. Sabretooth, and I don't see Sabes winning that fight.

Of course, this is just one scenario. But it makes sense that it would play out that way, as Beast would be smart enough to realize that he and Lizard need to play to their strengths.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Anyway, there's a way people haven't mentioned much yet. Beast could take on Kraven and stomp him out of the fight real fast. Lizard (I think) would be stalemating Sabretooth. Once Kraven is out of the picture, it's Beast and Lizard vs. Sabretooth, and I don't see Sabes winning that fight. Not current Kraven.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Wow. Lots of Beast hate here. Beast is formidable when he has to be. I agree, it's not too often they show him actually fighting in the last decade or so, which is sad. Being multitudes smarter than all three combined isn't necessarily a disadvantage either.

Anyway, there's a way people haven't mentioned much yet. Beast could take on Kraven and stomp him out of the fight real fast. Lizard (I think) would be stalemating Sabretooth. Once Kraven is out of the picture, it's Beast and Lizard vs. Sabretooth, and I don't see Sabes winning that fight.

Of course, this is just one scenario. But it makes sense that it would play out that way, as Beast would be smart enough to realize that he and Lizard need to play to their strengths. I completely agree, that's what I'm talking about.

Given their histories, it'd be unlikely that Sabretooth would go after Lizard first. It's more than likley he'd go straight for Beast.

Telepathy is wasted on Creed.
He'd solo the team, like someone else said, throw kraven on the other side and he STILL solos.

truth

Lizard and Beast FTW.