Black Lantern Kal-L vs The Keeper (Surfer)

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Stoic
Who takes it?

abhilegend
Time stop and bfr ftw.

Stoic
Originally posted by abhilegend
Time stop and bfr ftw.


How would it work out if he didn't resort to cheapness?

zopzop
Originally posted by Stoic
How would it work out if he didn't resort to cheapness?

As the Keeper, he's wearing and commanding the Quantum Bands. Those things have full control over the EM Spectrum. He blankets the area in white light, BL Kal-l gets wrecked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lantern_Corps

abhilegend
Originally posted by Stoic
How would it work out if he didn't resort to cheapness?
Keeper would get his shit pushed in.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
Keeper would get his shit pushed in.

He's wearing the Quantum Bands. He's not losing this.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
As the Keeper, he's wearing and commanding the Quantum Bands. Those things have full control over the EM Spectrum. He blankets the area in white light, BL Kal-l gets wrecked.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Lantern_Corps
So does alan scott. Didn't help him.Originally posted by zopzop
He's wearing the Quantum Bands. He's not losing this.
You are confusing fodder zombies with Kal-L. He took superman's full hv and barely slowed down.

Bouboumaster
Kal-L is getting a 10 feet space surf board up the ass.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Keeper is getting a 10 feet space surf board up the ass.
Fixed.

Prep-Man
Hahaha!

JakeTheBank
I'm lazy.

Someone post scans of Keeper.

zopzop
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm lazy.

Someone post scans of Keeper.

Like feats and fight wise? His best showing was vs a hungry Galactus (actually he was starving to death and stated he's never felt that weak in his entire existence).

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
Like feats and fight wise? His best showing was vs a hungry Galactus (actually he was starving to death and stated he's never felt that weak in his entire existence).
And got owned IIRC.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
And got owned IIRC.

No, he won. In their second (third?) encounter, a hungry Galactus got tired of the Keeper's BS and wtfpwned him.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
No, he won. In their second (third?) encounter, a hungry Galactus got tired of the Keeper's BS and wtfpwned him.
Ah, my mistake.

Horrificus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Keeper would get his shit pushed in. Dude!

What the hell?! laughing

Your love affair with this character is warping your grip on reality.

Quasar with the Quantum Bands, ALONE, was a match for Surfer.

And you think that the doubled up powers STILL make this character a loser against Kal-L.

Do you have any idea what the Keeper is and what it is capable of?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
Dude!

What the hell?! laughing

Your love affair with this character is warping your grip on reality.

Quasar with the Quantum Bands, ALONE, was a match for Surfer.

And you think that the doubled up powers STILL make this character a loser against Kal-L.

Do you have any idea what the Keeper is and what it is capable of?
Dude

First know what are you talking about.

I just know what Kal-L can do.

This guy was nearly on par with PC superman.

He has done things like this

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/Superman091-08.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/Superman058-45.jpg

I already said that with time stop and bfr keeper would win. You think a guy who can kill anti monitor (weakened) with his bare hands can't beat an upgraded surfer?

Parmaniac
Originally posted by abhilegend
So does alan scott. Didn't help him.
You are confusing fodder zombies with Kal-L. He took superman's full hv and barely slowed down. Superman punched part of his head off, and fodder or not the principle stays the same. BL Supes is basically his fomrer self without weaknesses and HF but his new kryptonite is white light. IF (and that's a big if imo) the quantum bands can generate this kind of light, because it's not simple white light like a white flashlight or something, he has big problems.

Not saying he wins or looses though.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Superman punched part of his head off, and fodder or not the principle stays the same. BL Supes is basically his fomrer self without weaknesses and HF but his new kryptonite is white light. IF (and that's a big if imo) the quantum bands can generate this kind of light, because it's not simple white light like a white flashlight or something, he has big problems.

Not saying he wins or looses though.
Why is white light kryptonite for him? He didn't show that in his fight with JSA otherwise Mr. Terrific would have just produced white light. You can't transfer feats from one character to another, no matter how similar.

Horrificus
Originally posted by abhilegend
I just know what Kal-L can do.

Thanks for being honest.

Unfortunately, this fact kind of screws up your argument.

Bouboumaster
Originally posted by abhilegend
Dude

First know what are you talking about.

I just know what Kal-L can do.

This guy was nearly on par with PC superman.

He has done things like this

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/Superman091-08.jpg

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/Superman058-45.jpg

I already said that with time stop and bfr keeper would win. You think a guy who can kill anti monitor (weakened) with his bare hands can't beat an upgraded surfer?

Put scans of Kal-L doing this kind of things.

Here is some of Keeper pwnage and bullshit feats:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9957/keeper1stopstimess5.jpg
That's right: Time itself is his *****.

Teleport away a friggin city
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9591/keeper6transportcity1dz2.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9938/keeper6transportcity2ue2.jpg

This is the kind of power he had under hand

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
Thanks for being honest.

Unfortunately, this fact kind of screws up your argument.
May I ask you how?

Horrificus
Originally posted by Parmaniac
Superman punched part of his head off, and fodder or not the principle stays the same. BL Supes is basically his fomrer self without weaknesses and HF but his new kryptonite is white light. IF (and that's a big if imo) the quantum bands can generate this kind of light, because it's not simple white light like a white flashlight or something, he has big problems.

Not saying he wins or looses though.
The White Light of the Entity- If it is not "Magical" in nature, the Quantum bands will own it and can use it.

The bands can analyze, control, and/or create any for of energy except "magic".

And, even without the bands, Surfer has been shown to have similar abilities.

Horrificus
Originally posted by abhilegend
May I ask you how? How can you determine the outcome of a battle if you only have in-depth knowledge of one side?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Put scans of Kal-L doing this kind of things.

Here is some of Keeper pwnage and bullshit feats:

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/9957/keeper1stopstimess5.jpg
That's right: Time itself is his *****.

Teleport away a friggin city
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9591/keeper6transportcity1dz2.jpg
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/9938/keeper6transportcity2ue2.jpg

This is the kind of power he had under hand
Originally posted by abhilegend
Time stop and bfr ftw.
You think teleporting a city takes more power than blowing out a star?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
The White Light of the Entity- If it is not "Magical" in nature, the Quantum bands will own it and can use it.

The bands can analyze, control, and/or create any for of energy except "magic".

And, even without the bands, Surfer has been shown to have similar abilities.
That white entity in blackest night was the primal creation light. You think quasar can create any energy except magic, be my guest and prove it.
Originally posted by Horrificus
How can you determine the outcome of a battle if you only have in-depth knowledge of one side?
I've read both sides and have the knowledge of both sides.

Horrificus
Originally posted by abhilegend
That white entity in blackest night was the primal creation light. You think quasar can create any energy except magic, be my guest and prove it.

I've read both sides and have the knowledge of both sides. Why do I have to prove what has been stated over and over. This is his power profile. It is one of the things that the Quantum Bands do.
It would be like me asking for proof that Kal-L is strong.

And, if you are as knowledgeable as you say, you would already know that.

Which is why you either:

1. Do not know what you are talking about.
or
2. You don't care about the facts and are just going to stick to your baseless denial.

Come on, be honest.

In one thread, your big argument is that the power cannot be controlled by a specific character, because it was NOT "mystical" in nature.

Now, that Kal-L is up against a super-high-tier, "real-space" power manipulator, you are going to try and state the the power source is untouchable as well.

Not very honest.

Why not just tell us that Kal-L cannot be beaten because he is just
Really Neat! roll eyes (sarcastic)

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
Why do I have to prove what has been stated over and over. This is his power profile. It is one of the things that the Quantum Bands do.
It would be like me asking for proof that Kal-L is strong.

And, if you are as knowledgeable as you say, you would already know that.

Which is why you either:

1. Do not know what you are talking about.
or
2. You don't care about the facts and are just going to stick to your baseless denial.

Come on, be honest.

In one thread, your big argument is that the power cannot be controlled by a specific character, because it was NOT "mystical" in nature.

Now, that Kal-L is up against a super-high-tier, "real-space" power manipulator, you are going to try and state the the power source is untouchable as well.

Not very honest.

Why not just tell us that Kal-L cannot be beaten because he is just
Really Neat! roll eyes (sarcastic)
What are you babbling about? You claimed quasar can produce white light as the white entity does. I asked proof. Now you are back-peddling saying its what he does. That's not how things work here. How does both contradict each other? You think quasar is the only guy in comics who can control entire EM spectrum?

Horrificus
Originally posted by abhilegend
What are you babbling about? You claimed quasar can produce white light as the white entity does. I asked proof. Now you are back-peddling saying its what he does. That's not how things work here. How does both contradict each other? You think quasar is the only guy in comics who can control entire EM spectrum? "EM Spectrum"? How is Wiki doing? Read much Wiki? Hey, you have a little Wiki on your chin.
Man. I have met some goofy debaters on here, but at least they seemed to know a lot about both sides.
You are just making it up as you go.

"Back peddling"? If the white light is part of the existing spectrum of energy in the universe, the Quantum Bands can definitely control it. And, the Surfer, on his own, would have a good chance of doing it also.

On-the-fly, Quasar was able to analyze and shut down a Watcher's power.

That is their power profile. Period. It is up to you to show that the power, for some reason, is not part of the energy they control.

If the books are filled with the proof and the statements, you have to show that your argument falls outside of the proven evidence.

Now, if Keeper can control ALL existing energy in the universe, besides magical power, why do you say that he cannot control the sources of energy wielded by these lanterns?

And, on top of that, if the Keeper is an equal to Galactus, why is he defeated by Kal-L?

The powers that the Black and White Lanterns wield are not Magical and they are not

Cogito
Originally posted by Horrificus
And, on top of that, if the Keeper is an equal to Galactus, why is he defeated by Kal-L?

The powers that the Black and White Lanterns wield are not Magical and they are not

Lol, Keeper is not equal to Galactus.

Horrificus
Originally posted by Cogito
Lol, Keeper is not equal to Galactus. He beat a weakened Galactus. Was going to deliver the "killing blow", then stopped.

Then, he stopped, gave Galactus FULL Power, saving G. Then was called the equal of Galactus, by Eon.

Galactus and Keeper are now equals, with the Keeper feeding Galactus forever.

Do I need to post the scans? Are you arguing this point because you never read the book?

Horrificus
Originally posted by Cogito
Lol, Keeper is not equal to Galactus.

Killing Blow-
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Keeper1.jpg


Equals-
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Keeper2.jpg

Cogito
I don't deny that he fought Galactus at his weakest point ever. That does not make them equals by any means.

And the "equal partner" is referring to what Surfer said next. They're partners in opposite roles. He is still not equal in power to an even mediocre Galactus.

leonidas
yeah, ss was slaughtered--effortlessly--by g when he finally got po'd. AND he was weak when he destroyed him.

keeper is nowhere close to g. the whole white light issue is a little complicated. it wasn't just any white light in some cases. at first it seemed only certain characters could produce the type of light that would harm a bl. later on it seemed to broaden some. keeper might be able to produce the needed type of light, but it certainly isn't common knowledge so i don't know if he could 'cosmic awareness' the weakness or not.

barring the use of white light, if it came to h2h ss would lose. otherwise he'd simply have to try and do things to kal that have never been done and are hence, speculatory in their affects. could he matter manip him? maybe? generate sufficient force to disintegrate him? doubt it. bfr him? for sure.

keeper was more powerful than ss but how much more isn't easy to say and i fall on the side of not all that much more powerful.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
You think teleporting a city takes more power than blowing out a star?

Teleporting the city also 'taxed' him. Meaning he was spent from the effort. A nice showing but hardly uber. So I agree with you, the Superman sun feat > Keeper city feat.

Lord Feron
Keeper takes it without much difficulty.

zopzop
Originally posted by Horrificus
Killing Blow-


Equals-


Horrificus, they were NOT anywhere near equals. I can prove this. Later during their final encounter, a HUNGRY Galactus WTFpwned Keeper and I can prove this with scans.

Dream Stuff
Originally posted by abhilegend
You think teleporting a city takes more power than blowing out a star?

It's hard to make a direct comparison due to A) both things being unprecedented in real science and B) one thing being nonsense. You can't "blow out" a star as though it were literally on fire. You'd pretty much need toonforce to pull that off.

So while, on the one hand, a star is a much bigger handful than a city, simple "extinguishment" is a much easier act than teleportation. Your mileage may vary.

Endless Mike
Well to exceed the GBE of a sun size star it takes around 1e41j

Sr J-Bieb
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Well to exceed the GBE of a sun size star it takes around 1e41j That's stroke language

Endless Mike
What?

Horrificus
Originally posted by zopzop
Horrificus, they were NOT anywhere near equals. I can prove this. Later during their final encounter, a HUNGRY Galactus WTFpwned Keeper and I can prove this with scans. It's not an important part of my argument, whether Keeper really is an equal to Galactus or not. I am one of those people that think Galactus gets low-balled too often and is a much bigger threat than most members think in here.

The point is, for a single character to best Galactus so easily, even a weakened one, it is quite a feat.

To best him easily, even a weakened Galactus, that is a serious feat.

Then, to have the power to be able to bring Galactus back up to full power, that is an awesome feat.

These are feats that Kal-L could not do.

Keeper was trained retrained by a Watcher to make full use of the bands and to have full control of the Power Cosmic with no third party.
This is also huge.

This information PLUS the FACT that there is no evidence to show that the Quantum bands would not be able to tap and control the Lantern Rings.

There are all kinds of examples of ways that the rings have been manipulated, tricked or flat out destroyed. They are NOT "fail-safe" weapons. A character like the Keeper would be able to duplicate any of the methods that the rings have been beaten before.

On top of it all, the Keeper is just a kick ass character with full control of powers that were originally handed to him by 2 Universal Abstract Entities. He would have more than enough power to obliterate Kal-L.

Full Control of the Power Cosmic + Full Control of All Non-Mystical Energy in the Universe = A Crushed Black Lantern Kal-L

zopzop
Originally posted by Horrificus
It's not an important part of my argument, whether Keeper really is an equal to Galactus or not. I am one of those people that think Galactus gets low-balled too often and is a much bigger threat than most members think in here.

The point is, for a single character to best Galactus so easily, even a weakened one, it is quite a feat.

To best him easily, even a weakened Galactus, that is a serious feat.

Then, to have the power to be able to bring Galactus back up to full power, that is an awesome feat.

These are feats that Kal-L could not do.

Keeper was trained retrained by a Watcher to make full use of the bands and to have full control of the Power Cosmic with no third party.
This is also huge.

This information PLUS the FACT that there is no evidence to show that the Quantum bands would not be able to tap and control the Lantern Rings.

There are all kinds of examples of ways that the rings have been manipulated, tricked or flat out destroyed. They are NOT "fail-safe" weapons. A character like the Keeper would be able to duplicate any of the methods that the rings have been beaten before.

On top of it all, the Keeper is just a kick ass character with full control of powers that were originally handed to him by 2 Universal Abstract Entities. He would have more than enough power to obliterate Kal-L.

Full Control of the Power Cosmic + Full Control of All Non-Mystical Energy in the Universe = A Crushed Black Lantern Kal-L

He was not merely "weakened" he stated he's NEVER gone this long without eating in his entire billions of years of existence.
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8228/neardeath.th.jpg

And here is a hungry Galactus vs the Keeper :
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3773/hungryg.th.jpg http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8676/hungry2.th.jpg http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/9269/hungry3.th.jpg
That's the very definition of having one's "sh|t pushed in". Keeper is nowhere near Galactus' level, even if Galactus is hungry. At best he's a translevel being.

Regarding Keeper vs BL Superman, I already said he'd win by reproducing 'white light' and pwning him. Or stopping time and BFRing him.

Horrificus
Originally posted by zopzop
He was not merely "weakened" he stated he's NEVER gone this long without eating in his entire billions of years of existence.
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/8228/neardeath.th.jpg

And here is a hungry Galactus vs the Keeper :
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3773/hungryg.th.jpg http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8676/hungry2.th.jpg http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/9269/hungry3.th.jpg
That's the very definition of having one's "sh|t pushed in". Keeper is nowhere near Galactus' level, even if Galactus is hungry. At best he's a translevel being.

Regarding Keeper vs BL Superman, I already said he'd win by reproducing 'white light' and pwning him. Or stopping time and BFRing him. Hey! That's all Great Zop! roll eyes (sarcastic)

Maybe you didn't read what I wrote to you. Or, did you confuse me with somebody that is actually arguing with you about Keeper being equal to G?

Hey, remember this?

Originally posted by Horrificus
It's not an important part of my argument, whether Keeper really is an equal to Galactus or not. I am one of those people that think Galactus gets low-balled too often and is a much bigger threat than most members think in here.

Well, the important thing here, is that you feel GOOD about yourself!

Feel free to purge any time.

zopzop
Originally posted by Horrificus
Hey! That's all Great Zop! roll eyes (sarcastic)

Maybe you didn't read what I wrote to you. Or, did you confuse me with somebody that is actually arguing with you about Keeper being equal to G?

Hey, remember this?



Well, the important thing here, is that you feel GOOD about yourself!

Feel free to purge any time.

http://www.filehurricane.com/viewerthumbnails/722200821142PM_c270c613e8.jpg wink

Horrificus
Originally posted by zopzop
http://www.filehurricane.com/viewerthumbnails/722200821142PM_c270c613e8.jpg wink HAHAHA!

Nice.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
"EM Spectrum"? How is Wiki doing? Read much Wiki? Hey, you have a little Wiki on your chin.
Man. I have met some goofy debaters on here, but at least they seemed to know a lot about both sides.
You are just making it up as you go.

That's zopzop's way of reading, not mine. But nice try.



Prove that with feats of quasar or surfer doing something like simulating the primal light of creation. That kind of reasoning doesn't fly here.



Congrats, rulk absorbed the powers of a watcher too.



Power profiles mean squat, feats are what matter here.



You have to prove first that emotional energy falls in the same category as quasar can control. This no limit fallacy doesn't work in comics. Captain atom has the power of entire quantum field too, he has created and destroyed an entire universe in quantum field. That doesn't mean he can control every form of energy.



You have to prove that first. Just quoting power profiles and such things aren't proof enough or do you really think that hulk is the strongest being in the multiverse?



Kal-l killed anti monitor with his fists. You think keeper is above anti monitor?



Prove it.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
It's hard to make a direct comparison due to A) both things being unprecedented in real science and B) one thing being nonsense. You can't "blow out" a star as though it were literally on fire. You'd pretty much need toonforce to pull that off.

So while, on the one hand, a star is a much bigger handful than a city, simple "extinguishment" is a much easier act than teleportation. Your mileage may vary.
That doesn't mean it isn't canon though. LOL.

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
That's zopzop's way of reading, not mine. But nice try.


Prove that with feats of quasar or surfer doing something like simulating the primal light of creation. That kind of reasoning doesn't fly here.


Sometimes wikipedia and google work wonders.

Here is Dr. Light destroying Black Lanterns using "White Light" :
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/36950/1248247-dr.light__1_.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/36950/1245456-untitled_10.jpg

Why couldn't the Q-bands, that give the wielder total control over the EM Spectrum, do something like this. Hell Surfer by himself could do this.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
Sometimes wikipedia and google work wonders.

Here is Dr. Light destroying Black Lanterns using "White Light" :
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/36950/1248247-dr.light__1_.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/36950/1245456-untitled_10.jpg

Why couldn't the Q-bands, that give the wielder total control over the EM Spectrum, do something like this. Hell Surfer by himself could do this.
Zombie fodders. And you can't transfer feats from one charcter to another anyway. Dr light staggered anti monitor too when heroes from five earths couldn't. You think that surfer can do that?

abhilegend
For those dolts who forgot about this timeless epic.stick out tongue


http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-31.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-32.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-33.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-34.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-35.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-36.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-37.jpg

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
Zombie fodders. And you can't transfer feats from one charcter to another anyway. Dr light staggered anti monitor too when heroes from five earths couldn't. You think that surfer can do that?

Has nothing to do with fodder or feat transfers. Her powers are light based. She's not a mystic is she? The Quantum Bands FOR SURE can do anything she does and then some. Surfer could too.

The BLs are the second most overhyped characters in comics.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
Has nothing to do with fodder or feat transfers. Her powers are light based. She's not a mystic is she? The Quantum Bands FOR SURE can do anything she does and then some. Surfer could too.

The BLs are the second most overhyped characters in comics.

Kal-L never showed any weakness to white light anyway. If he was that easily dispatched, mr terrific doesn't have to combine alan scott and dr fate's energies to destroy him. They can do anything she can? I doubt that

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-27.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-28.jpg

zopzop
Originally posted by abhilegend
Kal-L never showed any weakness to white light anyway. If he was that easily dispatched, mr terrific doesn't have to combine alan scott and dr fate's energies to destroy him. They can do anything she can? I doubt that

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-27.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-28.jpg

Those are Crisis era scans. What's she done recently that compares to that? But all this is just a distraction anyway.

"White Light" wrecks Black Lanterns. Halo, Dr. Light, and the Ray all used regular old "white light" to wtfpwn BLs. There's nothing magical or spiritual about it.

Anyone capable of producing said effect would likewise pwn BLs. The Quantum Bands for sure could do it, so could the Surfer.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
Those are Crisis era scans. What's she done recently that compares to that? But all this is just a distraction anyway.

"White Light" wrecks Black Lanterns. Halo, Dr. Light, and the Ray all used regular old "white light" to wtfpwn BLs. There's nothing magical or spiritual about it.

Anyone capable of producing said effect would likewise pwn BLs. The Quantum Bands for sure could do it, so could the Surfer.
Those are all canon for her. She was created for that purpose in that series. Oh I would accept your theories if you just give me a scan where it worked on Kal-L. We can also go to old speedblitz route if you are adamant that keeper is going to do something he's never done. How fast is Kal-L

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/00000009.jpg

Compare zoom vs new earth superman

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/5953430000.jpg

Stoic
I have a question. Why wouldn't the bright light trick work on BL Kal L, but would work on all of the other Black Lanterns?

Sixth_Winged
Regular SS would be able to deal with most black lantern (including this one). Having the quantum bands is overkill.

Endless Mike
Originally posted by abhilegend
For those dolts who forgot about this timeless epic.stick out tongue


http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-31.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-32.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-33.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-34.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-35.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-36.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_Crisis12-37.jpg

Is it bad that I immediately recognized what issue that was and what was going on just by glancing at the thumbnails?

abhilegend
Originally posted by Stoic
I have a question. Why wouldn't the bright light trick work on BL Kal L, but would work on all of the other Black Lanterns?
Because Blackest night was a prime example of inconsistent writing and feats from one character can't be transferred to another character in such a mess of story. In the main mini, only those who could manipulate emotional spectrum c were able to affect BLs. Even in the same comic which zopzop is referencing Dr. light's earlier shots were having no effect but she destroyed them when she was pissed. If the black lanterns were so allergic to white light, they would've been destroyed by any white light attack. Firestorm also tried to beat deathstorm by using white light IIRC.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/10.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/12.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/15.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/16-17.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/19.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/22.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/25.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/26.jpg

This is all from the same issue where Dr. light destroyed those black lanterns, clearly PIS. How would the story end if nobody could destroy black lanterns, so Dr. Light in a heroic burst destroyed the same lanterns who were shrugging off their attacks previously.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Is it bad that I immediately recognized what issue that was and what was going on just by glancing at the thumbnails?
Yeah, you're officially a nerd now.uhuh

Endless Mike
Well I knew that already...

abhilegend
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Well I knew that already...
Now its confirmed.

Cogito
The answer is in the scans that Abhi just posted.

Dr. Light was able to artifically create not just white light, but emotional spectrum white light.

Originally posted by abhilegend
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/16-17.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/19.jpg

First scans shows her experiencing the requisite emotions, and then channeling those into the light she created in the second scan.

That seems pretty obvious, no? confused

Surfer, frankly, doesn't usually show a wide range of emotions so I don't think he's pulling that off.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Cogito
The answer is in the scans that Abhi just posted.

Dr. Light was able to artifically create not just white light, but emotional spectrum white light.



First scans shows her experiencing the requisite emotions, and then channeling those into the light she created in the second scan.

That seems pretty obvious, no? confused

Surfer, frankly, doesn't usually show a wide range of emotions so I don't think he's pulling that off.
BLASEPHAMY.

You suggest there are energies that marvel's energy manipulators can't manipulate? How dare you!!!!!!!!!!

uhuh

Lord Feron
Originally posted by Stoic
I have a question. Why wouldn't the bright light trick work on BL Kal L, but would work on all of the other Black Lanterns?

because then this would be a stomp and there would be not point of this thre.... I mean because Kal is special and just deal with it.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Lord Feron
because then this would be a stomp and there would be not point of this thre.... I mean because Kal is special and just deal with it.
Or because its transplanting feats from one character to another and using ABC logic.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by abhilegend
Or because its transplanting feats from one character to another and using ABC logic.

agreed, can't use what works on one black lantern and assume it would work on another black lantern with the same type of ring and powered by the same energy.

Thats why im surprised new kyrpton was able to make a device that keep out all black lanterns like seriously wtf.

Also light that is white is definitely unique to DC, and Marvel should not in anyway be able to reproduce this even for someone such as surfer who can manipulate energy and matter as easy as he does much less a amped surfer.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Lord Feron
agreed, can't use what works on one black lantern and assume it would work on another black lantern with the same type of ring and powered by the same energy.
Exactly. All black lanterns retained their abilities. Its like saying someone koed john stewart with some attack so it would ko sodam yat too.


Doom jacked galactus' power with tech. Surfer can jack it too, obviously. I didn't know keeper has kryptonian tech in this fight.


You see surfer creating gloves using willpower collected throughout universe, call me.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by abhilegend
Exactly. All black lanterns retained their abilities. Its like saying someone koed john stewart with some attack so it would ko sodam yat too.


Doom jacked galactus' power with tech. Surfer can jack it too, obviously. I didn't know keeper has kryptonian tech in this fight.


You see surfer creating gloves using willpower collected throughout universe, call me.

Swing a miss on every point Happy Dance

Cogito
Surfer has no emotional connection to Kal-L, he won't experience the necessary range of emotions (all of them) to generate the white light of life.

It's not just generating white light.

/thread.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Swing a miss on every point Happy Dance
Wow, great reply!

Lord Feron
Originally posted by Cogito
Surfer has no emotional connection to Kal-L, he won't experience the necessary range of emotions (all of them) to generate the white light of life.

It's not just generating white light.

/thread.

Okay I guess I could buy that bit about you need a emotional connection + white light powers.

But "/thread" nawww someone like surfer does not simple rely on that to win.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by abhilegend
Wow, great reply!

Yep gonna frame that baby. Then call my parents over to marvel at my accomplishments. ring ring "why yes mr. president you can come over too!"

abhilegend
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Yep gonna frame that baby. Then call my parents over to marvel at my accomplishments. ring ring "why yes mr. president you can come over too!"
Yeah, I'm speechless.roll eyes (sarcastic)

Cogito
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Okay I guess I could buy that bit about you need a emotional connection + white light powers.

But "/thread" nawww someone like surfer does not simple rely on that to win.

It explicitly showed her light-based powers not work.

Then it explicitly showed her becoming highly emotional across all spectrums.

Then it explicitly showed her create the white light that did work.

I don't know how much more obvious it could get. I suppose they could have written it out in size 50 font, but that approach lacks a kind of elegance.

Lord Feron
Originally posted by Cogito
It explicitly showed her light-based powers not work.

Then it explicitly showed her becoming highly emotional across all spectrums.

Then it explicitly showed her create the white light that did work.

I don't know how much more obvious it could get. I suppose they could have written it out in size 50 font, but that approach lacks a kind of elegance.

Or you can just accept that I am agreeing with you in a less than enthusiastic way.... sad

But if you are upset about thinking that, thats surfers only route via win then well i disagree.

Cogito
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Or you can just accept that I am agreeing with you in a less than enthusiastic way.... sad

But if you are upset about thinking that, thats surfers only route via win then well i disagree.

Black Lanterns are hax. I don't see any way for someone like Surfer to win. It's not his fault. He's not lacking for power, it's just the wrong power in this case.
erm

Horrificus
OK. So, why exactly, can't the Keeper duplicate the way Halo or Dr. Light was able to win?

Cogito
Did you read?

Horrificus
Originally posted by Cogito
Surfer, frankly, doesn't usually show a wide range of emotions so I don't think he's pulling that off. Are you kidding?

You have just proven that you have no idea what you are talking about.

The Keeper can't duplicate this feat because Surfer doesn't have a wide enough emotional range?

From this point forward, ANYTHING you claim, involving Surfer, is suspect. You do not have enough experience with the character to be making any kind of knowledgeable argument.

Surfer is one of the "squishiest", emotional, sissy, whining characters in comic books. And, I have even stated this in other threads.

He is constantly throwing fits. Getting depressed. Has fallen in love.
He is in a constant state of "menstruation"!

As you can tell, I am not a big fan. But, at least I have read 95% of the Surfer-related books out there.

Is there anybody out there that would like to disagree with me on this, UNTIL I roll up a bunch of scans and stuff them up your a**es?

Or, can we agree on this as FACT?

And, if the Keeper IS in fact a VERY emotional being, AND he can duplicate the generation of light/energy feats that others have used to defeat Black Rings, can somebody give a reason why it won't work?

Horrificus
Originally posted by Cogito
Did you read? Obviously. And, what I read was wrong.

Cogito
Feel free to elaborate on why you disagree with what was so obviously shown on panel.

abhilegend
Ok its time we end this discussion how Halo and the other light based characters were able to destroy black lanterns. First though is the notion that The ray destroyed black lanterns which is not true

All ray did was to destroy the bodies of zombies

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/WeirdWesternTales71010.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/WeirdWesternTales71012.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/WeirdWesternTales71013.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/WeirdWesternTales71014.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/WeirdWesternTales71015.jpg

Thanks to zopzop I now know the importance of wikipedia and thus I was able to know how she destroyed those lanterns. She uses emotional spectrum and her power source is something like emotional entities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(comics)

Even then her powers were completely in-effective against Katana's children in beginning

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Outsiders024023.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Outsiders024024.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Outsiders024025.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Outsiders024026.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Outsiders024027.jpg

Then she comes back and without any explanation takes out the same zombies who previously shrugged of her attacks.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Outsiders-025_11.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Outsiders-025_13.jpg

I say PIS. It can also be said that she had emotional ties to those children as she was a ward of Katana in her teens.


She broke the ring of Terra after she removed it from her hand which should be impossible as shown in the main mini!!!

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Outsiders-025_25.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Outsiders-025_26.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Outsiders-025_27.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Outsiders-025_28.jpg

Horrificus
Originally posted by Horrificus
Obviously. And, what I read was wrong.

Right now there r 2 threads going on involving Black Lantern Kal-L.

One has him against Thor and the other has him against the Keeper.

Now, honestly, I don't even care about ANY of these characters.

BUT...

I have read all the books involving them and I do care about facts being ignored or dismissed out of fanboyism. I am more arguing for the facts than I am for the characters.

All these characters are total "cheese".

Thor is a cheese character in the way that he has been shown, at one point or another, to be able to do almost anything he wants. Not just strength feats, but manipulation of almost ANY kind of power, "mystical" and "real-space".

The big argument there was that I was wrong and he cannot do this. Until I posted a list of actual feats, with the book issues listed.

Then, that was called Bullshit. Somehow. I am not sure how you look at an actual list and call it bullshit, but that is what happened.

Then, there is the argument that the Black Ring power isn't "mystical" in nature, so Thor wouldn't be able to manipulate it.

Pretty much, anything that is posted just gets ignored or denied.

The Keeper is serious "cheese" with powers that are just way over the top for a non-abstract entity. Anybody that has followed both Surfer and Quasar knows that they are much more powerful and have much higher-potential than is usually granted to them in the boards.

The Keeper, the same situation. Basically, the Keeper can control ANY energy in the universe. Period. THAT is his power-set. Without even going into how powerful he is with the combination of unlimited use of the Power Cosmic WITH the use of the Quantum Bands.

Eon, the creator and master of the Quantum Bands is even an Abstract in charge of LIFE in the universe.

As someone put it, "Protecting the Celestial Axis (the pattern of life energy threading through the universe).

Yet, supposedly, he STILL has no dominion over White Light or Life?

Just remember your stances here. They may come back to haunt you. big grin

Personally, I think Kal-L is powerful enough to give either of them a run for their money on his own. What I am attacking here, is the Black Ring power.

The Black Ring is the key to this version of Kal-L. And, Thor and Keeper ARE equipped to counter it.

And, if they can drop the ring, what happens to Black Lantern Kal-L?

Cogito
Horrificus,

First, I don't care about Thor here because this isn't a Thor thread. But since you brought it up, you showed a scan of Thor bathing Darkoth in white light and call that evidence, even though it's been proven that white light does jack shit. Then you give a lot of instances of Mjolnir absorbing energy, which has no relevance to replicating the white light of creation. You call that proof? That's bullshit.

Back to this thread...
You've completely missed the point of Blackest Night. It isn't about energy or light, it's about emotion and emotion being the stuff of life itself. Surfer may be able to control energy, but he isn't recreating the emotional spectrum to create the white light of creation. Maybe he can against some opponents, but not against Kal-L whom he has no ties to.

quanchi112
Keeper wins.

MF DELPH
Not so sure about that. It's been shown on several occasions, including during Blackest Night, that the Emotional Spectrum, while "unique", can be manipulated by EM Spectrum users, as well as historically, EM energy sources being used to energize a ring. I think it's kind of a "Unified Field Theory" analog where the Emotional Spectrum derives from certain frequencies of psionic/life energy which is interchangable/related with all energy since it all has the same source, and I think the new approach to the Firestorm Matrix is playing into that as well.

That said, no real opinion on the match.

Cogito
Originally posted by MF DELPH
Not so sure about that. It's been shown on several occasions, including during Blackest Night, that the Emotional Spectrum, while "unique", can be manipulated by EM Spectrum users

But those EM Spectrum users, in Blackest Night, were shown to need to mix that energy with a range of emotions to kill the Black Lanterns, as was shown in Abhi's Dr. Light scans.

EM Spectrum energy was very specifically shown to be ineffective on it's own. It required Dr. Light (in that case) to be pushed by the resurrected Dr. Light (Arthur) into experiencing the range of emotions that make up the white light of creation.

zopzop
@Cogito, Horrificus, abhilegend

It seems there's more to this white light stuff than merely producing it.

I looked back at that Weird Western Tales Blackest Night Tie In with Ray and it looks like he merely buried them alive under rubble by his AoE blast.

Any time a white light attack destroys a BL an odd message "Connection Severed" pops up on panel. This wasn't there when Ray let out his AoE white light blast, this makes me think the BLs were NOT dead just buried under tons of rubble (and all the BLs from that arc were just regular humans/peak humans reanimated by the Black Rings and would have no way of escaping all that debris). Even prior to this all he was doing was driving them back with his attacks yet they kept coming.

Also when these white light attacks destroyed a BL it seems there is at least one person present that had an emotion attachment/tie to the BL in question : Dr. Light and male Dr. Light, Kal-l and Powergirl, etc..

So I take it back I don't think that the Keeper can reproduce this white light attack.

Cogito
^thumb up

Props, zopzop.

abhilegend
Originally posted by zopzop
@Cogito, Horrificus, abhilegend

It seems there's more to this white light stuff than merely producing it.

I looked back at that Weird Western Tales Blackest Night Tie In with Ray and it looks like he merely buried them alive under rubble by his AoE blast.

Any time a white light attack destroys a BL an odd message "Connection Severed" pops up on panel. This wasn't there when Ray let out his AoE white light blast, this makes me think the BLs were NOT dead just buried under tons of rubble (and all the BLs from that arc were just regular humans/peak humans reanimated by the Black Rings and would have no way of escaping all that debris). Even prior to this all he was doing was driving them back with his attacks yet they kept coming.

Also when these white light attacks destroyed a BL it seems there is at least one person present that had an emotion attachment/tie to the BL in question : Dr. Light and male Dr. Light, Kal-l and Powergirl, etc..

So I take it back I don't think that the Keeper can reproduce this white light attack.
That's great man. It takes a real man to admit he was wrong.

Horrificus
Originally posted by Cogito
Horrificus,

First, I don't care about Thor here because this isn't a Thor thread. But since you brought it up, you showed a scan of Thor bathing Darkoth in white light and call that evidence, even though it's been proven that white light does jack shit. Then you give a lot of instances of Mjolnir absorbing energy, which has no relevance to replicating the white light of creation. You call that proof? That's bullshit.

Back to this thread...
You've completely missed the point of Blackest Night. It isn't about energy or light, it's about emotion and emotion being the stuff of life itself. Surfer may be able to control energy, but he isn't recreating the emotional spectrum to create the white light of creation. Maybe he can against some opponents, but not against Kal-L whom he has no ties to. Wow. What a smart guy.
My apologies Cogito. I guess I was feelin' goofy when I stated that Keeper's powers, along with his status as "Eon's Life Boy", would work against the Black Ring.

I now admit that I was wro... Hey! Wait a minute. Some new evidence has been handed to me!

Yup. Somebody has supplied me with some support. Finally! big grin

Originally posted by Cogito
Pretty sure 5 Black Lantern rings wouldn't make him any better? We'll never know.

I might also be willing to entertain the possibility of Thanos' avatar of Death status being able to do affect a Black Lantern.

This fight depends on it. I'm not sure he can, but I can't say he can't, so maybe he could confused

What an idiot. You guys are so full of crap. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Keeper is the "Avatar of Life", with a full battery of emotions and the tools to do the job.

My argument stands. Keeper using White Light with the power granted to him as avatar, by the Abstract Entity Representing Life.

FTW.

Horrificus
Originally posted by Cogito
Horrificus,

First, I don't care about Thor here because this isn't a Thor thread. But since you brought it up, you showed a scan of Thor bathing Darkoth in white light and call that evidence, even though it's been proven that white light does jack shit. Then you give a lot of instances of Mjolnir absorbing energy, which has no relevance to replicating the white light of creation. You call that proof? That's bullshit.

Relax there "skipper". No need to get your superman underoos in a bunch...


Originally posted by Horrificus
The white light attack on Darkoth was a joke. You would have known that if you weren't UPSET about this comic book post. big grin

Last edited by Horrificus on Today at 02:37 AM

zopzop
Originally posted by Horrificus
Wow. What a smart guy.
My apologies Cogito. I guess I was feelin' goofy when I stated that Keeper's powers, along with his status as "Eon's Life Boy", would work against the Black Ring.

I now admit that I was wro... Hey! Wait a minute. Some new evidence has been handed to me!

Yup. Somebody has supplied me with some support. Finally! big grin



What an idiot. You guys are so full of crap. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Keeper is the "Avatar of Life", with a full battery of emotions and the tools to do the job.

My argument stands. Keeper using White Light with the power granted to him as avatar, by the Abstract Entity Representing Life.

FTW.

Horrificus, when was the Keeper called the "Avatar of Life"? The only person that went by that title, that I'm aware of, was Drax during the Thanos Imperative.

Horrificus
Originally posted by zopzop
Horrificus, when was the Keeper called the "Avatar of Life"? The only person that went by that title, that I'm aware of, was Drax during the Thanos Imperative. Drax was "an" avatar of life. Simply for opposing Thanos.

It was not an actual title and he did not act on behalf of the Universal Abstract Entity that represents Life. That is Eon.

Eon is in charge of "Life" in the universe. Protecting it, keeping it going, fighting threats to it. That is his role.

This goes all the way back to Eon's first appearance in Captain Marvel, 1973 and continues until now.

In books it has been described many ways:

-The offspring of Eternity, the personification of the life force of the universe.

-Eon has been given the responsibility to insure that conditions in the cosmos remain amenable to life.

-Eon, was charged with protecting the Celestial Axis (the pattern of life energy threading through the universe, known to the Asgardians as the World Tree, Yggdrasil) and nurturing the evolution of sentient life of the universe.


He chooses a Protector. That protector is Eon's Champion/avatar/agent.

Whether the word "avatar" is used or not, the "Protector" is the front man for the Abstract that represents Life. Period.


Keeper is the "Champion of Life" and "Protector of the Universe".
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Keeper2.jpg

Eon is Mentor to the Universal Protector.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/EonSurfersMentor.jpg

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
Drax was "an" avatar of life. Simply for opposing Thanos.

It was not an actual title and he did not act on behalf of the Universal Abstract Entity that represents Life. That is Eon.

Eon is in charge of "Life" in the universe. Protecting it, keeping it going, fighting threats to it. That is his role.

This goes all the way back to Eon's first appearance in Captain Marvel, 1973 and continues until now.

In books it has been described many ways:

-The offspring of Eternity, the personification of the life force of the universe.

-Eon has been given the responsibility to insure that conditions in the cosmos remain amenable to life.

-Eon, was charged with protecting the Celestial Axis (the pattern of life energy threading through the universe, known to the Asgardians as the World Tree, Yggdrasil) and nurturing the evolution of sentient life of the universe.


He chooses a Protector. That protector is Eon's Champion/avatar/agent.

Whether the word "avatar" is used or not, the "Protector" is the front man for the Abstract that represents Life. Period.


Keeper is the "Champion of Life" and "Protector of the Universe".
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Keeper2.jpg

Eon is Mentor to the Universal Protector.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/EonSurfersMentor.jpg
And? What does that exactly prove? Roma is "teh guardian of omniverse". Titles are just titles.

zopzop
Originally posted by Horrificus
Drax was "an" avatar of life. Simply for opposing Thanos.

It was not an actual title and he did not act on behalf of the Universal Abstract Entity that represents Life. That is Eon.

Eon is in charge of "Life" in the universe. Protecting it, keeping it going, fighting threats to it. That is his role.

This goes all the way back to Eon's first appearance in Captain Marvel, 1973 and continues until now.

In books it has been described many ways:

-The offspring of Eternity, the personification of the life force of the universe.

-Eon has been given the responsibility to insure that conditions in the cosmos remain amenable to life.

-Eon, was charged with protecting the Celestial Axis (the pattern of life energy threading through the universe, known to the Asgardians as the World Tree, Yggdrasil) and nurturing the evolution of sentient life of the universe.


He chooses a Protector. That protector is Eon's Champion/avatar/agent.

Whether the word "avatar" is used or not, the "Protector" is the front man for the Abstract that represents Life. Period.


Keeper is the "Champion of Life" and "Protector of the Universe".
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Keeper2.jpg

Eon is Mentor to the Universal Protector.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/EonSurfersMentor.jpg

Yes but Eon is not an abstract or concept representing "life" or "the life force". He's an abstract that represents "time".

And the Keeper isn't an Avatar of Life in the same way Drax is, or even in any way period. That "Champion of Life" title was meant to contrast his role with finding non inhabited worlds with Galactus' need to feast on living worlds. It's not a station of power or authority, it was just him comparing/contrasting his role in the new Galactus/Keeper partnership.

Cogito
Half the heroes in comics have been described as a "Protector of Life" or "Champion of Life" at some point.

Until they have feats that indicate some special power to go with the title, it's just words, so please stop trolling.

Horrificus
Originally posted by zopzop
Yes but Eon is not an abstract or concept representing "life" or "the life force". He's an abstract that represents "time".

And the Keeper isn't an Avatar of Life in the same way Drax is, or even in any way period. That "Champion of Life" title was meant to contrast his role with finding non inhabited worlds with Galactus' need to feast on living worlds. It's not a station of power or authority, it was just him comparing/contrasting his role in the new Galactus/Keeper partnership. Wrong. Time is one responsibility. The vast majority of Eon's appearances involve his other appointed responsibility. In charge of Life, nurturing, protecting, etc.

And, I'm not going to get into the argument of who was a real avatar of life. Nobody appointed Drax as anything. It was just alluded to by non-abstract level characters.

Keeper belonged to Eon.

Sigh... I'll get the scans...

Horrificus
Cogito, look above your post, at the post from Zozop. THAT is how "adults" debate or converse about subjects. Not by hurling insults and accusations without any basis in fact.


Originally posted by Cogito
Half the heroes in comics have been described as a "Protector of Life" or "Champion of Life" at some point.

Until they have feats that indicate some special power to go with the title, it's just words, so please stop trolling. But Keeper was APPOINTED by an Abstract Entity.

The same way that Thanos was appointed by Death as hers.

You are the one trolling. You have no evidence of ANYTHING, but continue to disagree and shoot down anything that doesn't go along with your view, regardless of scans or statements.

Watch your accusations. Disagreeing with you is nothing but a sign that I know what I am talking about.

You have done nothing but show that you have NOT read books outside of your narrow line of favorites. If you haven't read the books, you are simply proving that you are an idiot when you deny what was actually in them.

Be silent until you read a few.

Eon, with Quasar and in that short arc, the Keeper, have been official Protectors of the Universe, Life and Time for decades in the Marvel Universe.

If you don't know that, I suggest you do some reading. But, until you do, stop slinging insults and shooting down facts out of nothing but ignorance.

Go bully some newbies. You picked the wrong forum member to pull this crap on. wink

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
Wrong. Time is one responsibility. The vast majority of Eon's appearances involve his other appointed responsibility. In charge of Life, nurturing, protecting, etc.

And, I'm not going to get into the argument of who was a real avatar of life. Nobody appointed Drax as anything. It was just alluded to by non-abstract level characters.

Keeper belonged to Eon.

Sigh... I'll get the scans... Originally posted by Horrificus
Cogito, look above your post, at the post from Zozop. THAT is how "adults" debate or converse about subjects. Not by hurling insults and accusations without any basis in fact.


But Keeper was APPOINTED by an Abstract Entity.

The same way that Thanos was appointed by Death as hers.

You are the one trolling. You have no evidence of ANYTHING, but continue to disagree and shoot down anything that doesn't go along with your view, regardless of scans or statements.

Watch your accusations. Disagreeing with you is nothing but a sign that I know what I am talking about.

You have done nothing but show that you have NOT read books outside of your narrow line of favorites. If you haven't read the books, you are simply proving that you are an idiot when you deny what was actually in them.

Be silent until you read a few.

Eon, with Quasar and in that short arc, the Keeper, have been official Protectors of the Universe, Life and Time for decades in the Marvel Universe.

If you don't know that, I suggest you do some reading. But, until you do, stop slinging insults and shooting down facts out of nothing but ignorance.

Go bully some newbies. You picked the wrong forum member to pull this crap on. wink
laughing out loud

Your quasar wanking is growing quite irritable. You haven't given a single proof but your opinions and you try to insinuate that only you read comics? Grow up. No one is insulting you.

Horrificus
Originally posted by zopzop
Yes but Eon is not an abstract or concept representing "life" or "the life force". He's an abstract that represents "time".

And the Keeper isn't an Avatar of Life in the same way Drax is, or even in any way period. That "Champion of Life" title was meant to contrast his role with finding non inhabited worlds with Galactus' need to feast on living worlds. It's not a station of power or authority, it was just him comparing/contrasting his role in the new Galactus/Keeper partnership.
And, I don't mind grabbing scans for somebody that is actually posting something where they would like to see proof. As long as it is not done negatively or through bashing and bullying.

These are comic books. We should be enjoying the conversations and sharing scans and stuff. Even if we don't agree.

At least, that's what I think.

Horrificus
Originally posted by abhilegend
laughing out loud

Your quasar wanking is growing quite irritable. You haven't given a single proof but your opinions and you try to insinuate that only you read comics? Grow up. No one is insulting you. And, your goofy group bullying, as you guys stand around together in your superman underwear, has BEEN irritating.

You have ignored scans with statements on-panel. Or, twisted what was on-panel. Or resorted to personal attacks for some retarded reason.

Now, why don't you do this one more time?

Post whatever proof you want and of what. I will either RE-POST the scans I have ALREADY posted, or post new ones.

And, for the record, I HAVEN'T EVEN TOUCHED MY "QUASAR" IN QUITE SOME TIME?

Cogito
Originally posted by Horrificus
Cogito, look above your post, at the post from Zozop. THAT is how "adults" debate or converse about subjects. Not by hurling insults and accusations without any basis in fact.

First of all, I respect zopzop for his posts in this thread. However, I already made the point (several pages ago, in fact) he did about Keeper being a "Champion of Life" is just something Eon said as a contrast to Galactus' devourer of worlds (and apparently champion of death, according to Eon's implication?).


Originally posted by Horrificus
But Keeper was APPOINTED by an Abstract Entity.

The same way that Thanos was appointed by Death as hers.
He wasn't appointed anything. Keeper referred to himself as the Champion of Life, not Eon.


Originally posted by Horrificus
You are the one trolling. You have no evidence of ANYTHING, but continue to disagree and shoot down anything that doesn't go along with your view, regardless of scans or statements.


In this thread I've proven, with evidence from scans, what can and cannot permakill a Black Lantern. You came into this thread and made wild claims about Keeper's self-imposed titles and pull a comment I made from another thread (which has no bearing on Keeper) as a way to insult and demean me.

You've provided no evidence to counter the on-panel evidence that EM spectrum control is not sufficient to sever a BL ring connection, yet every post you write is accusing Abhi or I (or others) of not having evidence. In fact, when we post evidence, you call it "bullying", "bashing", "slinging insults", "shooting down facts", and "nothing but ignorance".

That, by definition, is trolling hardcore.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
And, your goofy group bullying, as you guys stand around together in your superman underwear, has BEEN irritating.

You have ignored scans with statements on-panel. Or, twisted what was on-panel. Or resorted to personal attacks for some retarded reason.

Now, why don't you do this one more time?

Post whatever proof you want and of what. I will either RE-POST the scans I have ALREADY posted, or post new ones.

And, for the record, I HAVEN'T EVEN TOUCHED MY "QUASAR" IN QUITE SOME TIME?
U mad?

Horrificus
Originally posted by Cogito
First of all, I respect zopzop for his posts in this thread.
Well, that's really beautiful! I'm wrong. You are actually a very polite, honorable guy. smile





The point you made (several pages ago, in fact) was wrong and idiotic and as I have said, you haven't read the books.


Surfer was asked by Eon.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/AskedbyEon.jpg

Surfer Chosen as Protector of the Universe.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/SurferChosen.jpg

Cosmic Entiry Eon... Mentor of the Universal Protector.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/MentorofProtector.jpg


More on the way...

Horrificus
Originally posted by abhilegend
U mad? Do you mean "insane-mad", or "wish-you-ill-mad"?

If I was mad, I would be saying things that would scar you, and have you questioning the sexual basis of your familial relationships, instead of the positive, brotherly feedback I have been trying to give. roll eyes (sarcastic)

I'm still waiting for your list of contested facts.

Cogito
I'm still not sure what special powers accompany the title "protector of the universe". Are there, or are there not, feats that show this title has any meaning?

Green Lanterns are "protectors of the universe" or universal police or whatever. That doesn't mean anything. The Guardians of the Galaxy is a title that doesn't mean anything.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
Do you mean "insane-mad", or "wish-you-ill-mad"?

If I was mad, I would be saying things that would scar you, and have you questioning the sexual basis of your familial relationships, instead of the positive, brotherly feedback I have been trying to give. roll eyes (sarcastic)

I'm still waiting for your list of contested facts.
laughing out loud @the irony here.

Cogito
Horrificus,

I have no problem rehashing the facts. First though, I'd just like to know where to begin.

Do you believe Keeper can win by recreating the White Light of Creation (due to EM Spectrum control)?

Or do you now only believe Keeper will win because I said Thanos might have some influence as an avatar of death and you've contorted that into me arguing against myself because Keeper was called the "Protector of the Universe"?

Just need to know where to begin with the arguments.

Horrificus

Horrificus
Originally posted by Cogito
Horrificus,

I have no problem rehashing the facts. First though, I'd just like to know where to begin.

Do you believe Keeper can win by recreating the White Light of Creation (due to EM Spectrum control)?

Or do you now only believe Keeper will win because I said Thanos might have some influence as an avatar of death and you've contorted that into me arguing against myself because Keeper was called the "Protector of the Universe"?

Just need to know where to begin with the arguments. The "Thanos thing" was just to show that you were open to similar arguments, but for some reason, not here.

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
Do you mean "insane-mad", or "wish-you-ill-mad"?

If I was mad, I would be saying things that would scar you, and have you questioning the sexual basis of your familial relationships, instead of the positive, brotherly feedback I have been trying to give. roll eyes (sarcastic)

I'm still waiting for your list of contested facts.
You want a prize for that?
Originally posted by abhilegend
And? What does that exactly prove? Roma is "teh guardian of omniverse". Titles are just titles.
Superman, batman and wonder woman are officially three founding stones of DCU and can't be beaten when acting together. Darkseid is essential for all creation and one time he was removed from timeline, entire reality collapsed. All of that means diddly squat here.

Horrificus
Originally posted by Cogito
I'm still not sure what special powers accompany the title "protector of the universe". Are there, or are there not, feats that show this title has any meaning?

Green Lanterns are "protectors of the universe" or universal police or whatever. That doesn't mean anything. The Guardians of the Galaxy is a title that doesn't mean anything.
Eon's appointed Protectors don't always have to use the Quantum bands.

Recently, without the Bands, Quasars Powers increased/changed-

Powers

Since his resurrection in "Quantum-Light" form during Secret Invasion, Wendell Vaughn seems to have a vast array of personal power not unlike the powers of the Quantum Bands. This is a hypothetical list based on the powers he has thus far exhibited and explanations (with some scientific basis) as to why he must have a power even he has yet to display it.
Cosmic Awareness:

Wendell Vaughn has declared he has Cosmic Awareness, but has explained that it is to a lesser degree than a cosmic entity such as Ego or Eon has. This gives Wendell the potential of Omniscience, but it's likely that he simply has access to a large 'library' of information by simply thinking about a particular subject.
Density Control:

This ability is assumed as some level of it would be required to make the Shape-Shifting power worthwhile. Becoming the Hulk and hitting someone doesn't have as much impact if you have the density of a typical human or average energy construct. At the same time if he indeed is made of energy then he must obey the hypothetical laws of energy and light. Einstein postulated quite famously that Energy equals Mass, therefore if Quasar has control of his Quantum-Light form, then he probably has a similar control over his density and mass.
Energy Channelling:

While he does not seem to have the vast energy-manipulating powers of the Quantum Bands, Quasar seems to the ability to generate damaging energy blasts and also the ability to large devastating explosions. The later of these seems to expend his energy and at the time he was forced to return to the Quantum Flask, but the Flask has since been shattered by Richard Rider. It's unknown what effect the larger explosion would have on his form.
Energy form:

Since his resurrection Wendell Vaughn now seems to be composed of energy or light; functioning with Vaughn's personality and memories. This effectively makes him immortal (as energy can neither be created nor destroyed). It has yet to be explained how this has happened to him as a result of his body being destroyed by Annihilus. Powerful energy manipulators would likely have a degree of control over Quasar's form.
Flight:

Quasar can fly but has not been clocked doing any particular speed. We can assume he is now limited by the speed of light (since he is composed of light), roughly 186,000 miles per second.
Shape-Shifting:

As he is now composed of energy, he seems to no longer be limited by a physical form, he can change his physical appearance at will. In Nova #18 he took the form of an energy-construct Hulk to dispatch a genetically augmented Skrull at Project: Pegasus shortly after his resurrection.
Teleportation/Dimension Travel:

Quasar has exhibited the ability to move in a flash of light from one location to another. This goes above and beyond the speed of light, as he was at Project: Pegasus in one moment and in the Realm of Oblivion the next. Wendell mentioned that he felt the Quantum-Bands call him to his location because of his connection to the Bands.

Horrificus
Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman, batman and wonder woman are officially three founding stones of DCU and can't be beaten when acting together. Darkseid is essential for all creation and one time he was removed from timeline, entire reality collapsed. All of that means diddly squat here.

You quoted yourself. Is there an argument going on?

Do you also refer to yourself in the third-person? roll eyes (sarcastic)
"Mother, abhilegend would like a cookie now!"
"abhilegend requires a hug. Now!"

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
You quoted yourself. Is there an argument going on?

Do you also refer to yourself in the third-person? roll eyes (sarcastic)
"Mother, abhilegend would like a cookie now!"
"abhilegend requires a hug. Now!"
I didn't want to type that again. Yeah, you're funny. Now answer the quesgtion. Your distractions are pathetic.

Horrificus
Originally posted by abhilegend
I didn't want to type that again. Yeah, you're funny. Now answer the quesgtion. Your distractions are pathetic.
Sigh... what a sh**head. Well, I tried.

My posts were in response to arguments stating that only light-based power-wielders with access to the universal life flow have been able to have an effect on Black Lanterns.

THAT, along with Cogito's statement that he would entertain the idea that Thanos, as an official avatar of the universes Death Abstract, might be in a position to have an effect.

I was defining the powers and station of the Keeper as a combination of:

1. Light/Energy Manipulation on a Universal Power-Scale
2. Official Agent of The Abstract Entity Governing Universal Life

abhilegend
Originally posted by Horrificus
Sigh... what a sh**head. Well, I tried.

My posts were in response to arguments stating that only light-based power-wielders with access to the universal life flow have been able to have an effect on Black Lanterns.

THAT, along with Cogito's statement that he would entertain the idea that Thanos, as an official avatar of the universes Death Abstract, might be in a position to have an effect.

I was defining the powers and station of the Keeper as a combination of:

1. Light/Energy Manipulation on a Universal Power-Scale
2. Official Agent of The Abstract Entity Governing Universal Life
What? Weren't it you who was trying to victimize himself saying that I was insulting him?

Light manipulator with emotional ties to black lanterns you mean. If you didn't noticed it before , I am not cogito. There you can have it.

1. Step it down, nothing keeper did suggested that he was a universal level enery manipulator.

2. What does that mean in this fight? Has he ever done something that helps him in this fight. You aren't simply grasping the idea that a level means jackshit in a forum fight.

Cogito
It has already been proven in this thread that EM spectrum manipulation is not enough. Both Ray and Dr. Light, along with others (e.g. JSA) tried that and it explicitly failed on every single attempt.

What was sufficient was combining EM Spectrum control with a necessary range of emotions at a sufficient level. In the case of Dr. Light, this occurred while she was fighting the evil Dr. Light who was trashing her father etc in an attempt to increase her emotional level (higher emotion level is better feeding for BLs). There was on-panel evidence of Dr. Light (female) showing heightened levels of hope, fear, anger, etc, and then she used that emotional spectrum energy with her electromagnetic to create the white light of creation (not just white light, which doesn't work).

Surfer couldn't care less about Kal-L, he isn't going to be angry, fearful, willful, compassionate, loving, etc all at the same time in this fight in the way that is required to create the white light of creation.

If a member of his family or a close acquaintance turned into a Black Lantern and that's who he was fighting, I would absolutely give it to Keeper 10/10.

zopzop
Originally posted by Horrificus
Well, that's really beautiful! I'm wrong. You are actually a very polite, honorable guy. smile





The point you made (several pages ago, in fact) was wrong and idiotic and as I have said, you haven't read the books.


Surfer was asked by Eon.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/AskedbyEon.jpg

Surfer Chosen as Protector of the Universe.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/SurferChosen.jpg

Cosmic Entiry Eon... Mentor of the Universal Protector.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/MentorofProtector.jpg


More on the way...

Horrificus, I'm sorry but you are wrong on this one. These are only titles, they have no meaning power or authority wise.

Here is the definitive proof -
a) Quasar is dead and he's been given a quantum body by Infinity. Eon is about to be killed by Maelstrom and states that he needs his protector but he is "Beyond the powers of my reckoning". If Eon really was a "life elemenatal/abstract/concept" why couldn't he detect/resurrect the dead Quasar?
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/8215/beyondk.th.jpg

b) Quasar thought that it was Eon that had created the Quantum body for him and feared that as soon as he killed Eon, he too would die but it turned out it WASN'T Eon that created the Q-body for Quasar. It was Infinity.
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/584/deadls.th.jpg http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9808/dead2d.th.jpg

c) if this didn't convince you. Before this incident, Quasar's father had a heart attack and died. Eon couldn't resurrect him and instead animated him like a puppet to attempt to fool Quasar into thinking his father was still alive. The reason why Eon did this was because he didn't want Quasar to be distracted by his father's death and focus on his mission. Yet he resorted to the puppet trick because Eon couldn't raise the dead. He has NO power over life and death. If you want the scan I can provide it too.

Horrificus
OK. So, to be clear:


A.
You are saying that the title of Protector of the Universe is meaningless. And, it is basically like any character calling themselves something?

B.
And, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the making of Quasars M-Body.

C.
And, this was pointing out that Eon had no power over life and death, so his titles and responsibilities mean nothing also.


Am I right? These are the points you are making?


Originally posted by zopzop
Horrificus, I'm sorry but you are wrong on this one. These are only titles, they have no meaning power or authority wise.

Here is the definitive proof -
a) Quasar is dead and he's been given a quantum body by Infinity. Eon is about to be killed by Maelstrom and states that he needs his protector but he is "Beyond the powers of my reckoning". If Eon really was a "life elemenatal/abstract/concept" why couldn't he detect/resurrect the dead Quasar?


b) Quasar thought that it was Eon that had created the Quantum body for him and feared that as soon as he killed Eon, he too would die but it turned out it WASN'T Eon that created the Q-body for Quasar. It was Infinity.

c) if this didn't convince you. Before this incident, Quasar's father had a heart attack and died. Eon couldn't resurrect him and instead animated him like a puppet to attempt to fool Quasar into thinking his father was still alive. The reason why Eon did this was because he didn't want Quasar to be distracted by his father's death and focus on his mission. Yet he resorted to the puppet trick because Eon couldn't raise the dead. He has NO power over life and death. If you want the scan I can provide it too.

Cogito
I'm not trying to post for zopzop here, but you have yet to show a single feat that shows the title "Protector of the Universe" is meaningful.

So remind me why we should assume carrying the title provides some measure of power over life and death? And without any feats whatsoever, what are the limitations of this power?

zopzop
Originally posted by Horrificus
OK. So, to be clear:


A.
You are saying that the title of Protector of the Universe is meaningless. And, it is basically like any character calling themselves something?

B.
And, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with the making of Quasars M-Body.

C.
And, this was pointing out that Eon had no power over life and death, so his titles and responsibilities mean nothing also.


Am I right? These are the points you are making?

A) Yes. Remember Captain Marvel (of 616 universe) and Firelord (of the GotG Universe) called themselves "Protectors of the Universe" and NEVER wielded the Q-bands. It's just a title. Nothing more.

B) The point was that even Quasar came to realize, that Eon had no power over life/death and it was Infinity that rescued him from Death and gave him that Q-body. Not Eon.

C) Yes. The example of Quasar's father being a puppet once dead showed Eon couldn't raise the dead. Then later still when Maelstrom was rampaging inside the Eonverse, Eon stated that his protector was beyond the ken of his power (Quasar was dead/near death and saved by Infinity and given a Q-body).

MrMind
black lantern kal easily

zopzop
Yeah. Sans BFR, BL Kal wins. If BFR is on, Keeper can attempt a BFR into the QUantum Zone. This may not work 100% because we've seen Gladiator catch on to that trick and threaten to rip Qusar's arm off.

Alternatively, Keeper can time stop but what does that accomplish? Sooner or later he's gonna have to 'unstop' time and face Kal and then it's lights out Keeper.

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