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http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/6754/722827-talisman_colored_by_windriderx23_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/77/141882-116548-shaman_super.jpg


vs.


http://cdn.gamerant.com/wp-content/uploads/Constantine-Hellblazer2.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/14706/292002-168056_large.jpg



1. Random encounter
2. 1 day prep


Who wins?

waits for k-m

Is this a straight up fight? Because if it is, team 1 stomps. Give Constantine prep and he solos. Like he always does.

1. Random encounter
2. 1 day prep


Who wins?

Team 1 stomps in random encounter, with prep that becomes iffy with John. However, he isn't the type to prep and fight he is a manipulator (also one day isn't a lot). While Talisman and Shaman have access to the Void, which "consists of millions of worlds, with trillions of magical spells" so prep should be on their side as it's all in Shaman's medicine bag so easy access

John will manipulate ftw. He's the best at that type of thing.q

Originally posted by Prep-Man
John will manipulate ftw. He's the best at that type of thing.q

Co-signed

Originally posted by Prep-Man
John will manipulate ftw. He's the best at that type of thing.q

and what will he exactly do? He doesn't have much time and it's not like their going to have a conversation it;s a fight.

Originally posted by -K-M-
and what will he exactly do? He doesn't have much time and it's not like their going to have a conversation it;s a fight.

He sells Zatanna to Doom.

.....uuuuh another thread where Doom is randomly just brought up

Random? Maybe, maybe not. Allow me to explain my reasoning.

Constantine has a history of using his friends as bargains.

Zatanna is quite the catch, power-wise (yes, the fishnets help too).

He knows his enemies are from the Marvel U.

Therefore, he needs to find a big player in the mystical world, who is open to gaining large amounts of power, in Marvel.

Yes, I could have gone with Dormammu/Mephisto or something, but I reckoned Doom would be up for a deal. Plus, I wanted to use someone who might actually make a difference - if I had brought up any other bad guy (becuase, let's face it, good guys Strange aren'tgoing to do a deal) then someone would bring up all the times they have been beaten by Talisman/Shaman.

So not QUITE random, I did give it a bit of thought....

Calling for outside help from people not listed in the thread is against the rules of the match. As Talisman and Shaman could just do the same and raise an mystical army or call in their friends from the X-Men and Alpha Flight. Not applicable.

Damn then I'm pretty much out of ideas lol. Constantine doesn't usually fight his own battles - his prep involves calling in favours or using outsiders. Short of that, I guess he could try and throw up some illusions or some such, or even a mind swap routine....but other than that, Talisman/Shaman would take it.

Originally posted by -K-M-
and what will he exactly do? He doesn't have much time and it's not like their going to have a conversation it;s a fight.

Constantine doesn't fight. He's a master prep.

Exactly, so what is he going to do here under these stipulations?

What universe is this battle taking place? DC? Marvel? Neutral? If it's DC, Constantine will talk his way. Persuade someone, get an artifact, etc...

If it's Marvel, he'll need some luck. But he might find a way.

If it's neutral, he's screwed.

1. team one stomps
2. hard to go against Constantine w/ prep...

Originally posted by Prep-Man
What universe is this battle taking place? DC? Marvel? Neutral? If it's DC, Constantine will talk his way. Persuade someone, get an artifact, etc...

If it's Marvel, he'll need some luck. But he might find a way.

If it's neutral, he's screwed.

You can't get someone to fight for you just by talking to them (summoning is different and controlling is different). Following that logic in a prep thread with Batman he could talk to the JLA to fight for him. Also what artifact will he get in one day? He doesn't have Shaman's pouch that literally has "millions of worlds, with trillions of magical spells" all at his fingertips. With just one day prep the scenario heavily favors team Marvel with prep and would be interested to see if he could get an item that could stop Talisman who can simply just cancel magic out.

Originally posted by -K-M-
You can't get someone to fight for you, and what artifact will he get in one day? He doesn't have Shaman's pouch that literally has "millions of worlds, with trillions of magical spells" all at his fingertips.

Is that part of the rules on the forum, because Constantine has done that in the past. He's defeated FOF in just a few days prep. He basically makes them defeat themselves.

BTW, who is that in your avatar/sig?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Is that part of the rules on the forum, because Constantine has done that in the past. He's defeated FOF in just a few days prep. He basically makes them defeat themselves.

BTW, who is that in your avatar/sig?

That was in a few days, not one. As I mentioned if you give Batman prep whats to stop him just talking to the JLA and getting them to fight for him? Can't do that.

Avatar: No clue the origin
http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/366483/82463712.jpg

Sig: I forget where I got it, it's pretty old. I believe its Martian Manhunter from his mini before his death

I think the issue is that you'd have to go about explaining how John wins with prep instead of just that "he'd find a way".

He's a master manipulator, true, and can pit people against one another so that he holds the advantage, but a lot of his cunning and prep timed victory is usually context specific and scenario heavy.

Originally posted by -K-M-
That was in a few days, not one. As I mentioned if you give Batman prep whats to stop him just talking to the JLA and getting them to fight for him? Can't do that.

Avatar: No clue the origin
http://edge.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/366483/82463712.jpg

Sig: I forget where I got it, it's pretty old. I believe its Martian Manhunter from his mini before his death

I heard the second time was a random encounter (FOF).

With those stips, Constantine might lose, but there a lot of times, where he's prepared for pretty much anything (as stated by him). He even carries a mini sun with him as he owned Andrew with it.

Nice avatar, btw.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think the issue is that you'd have to go about explaining how John wins with prep instead of just that "he'd find a way".

He's a master manipulator, true, and can pit people against one another so that he holds the advantage, but a lot of his cunning and prep timed victory is usually context specific and scenario heavy.

He's so cunning he made men kill themselves just by talking to them.

Would the Spear of Destiny work?

Did a bit of research, and I believe it would be a good bet.

It should, as it has worked on Spectre but how is he going to get it in a day? We don't know who has it or where.

I believe Spectre had it last in Final Crisis.

Seeing as he knows how the rules to a T, he'd find a way to get it somehow.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Seeing as he knows how the rules to a T, he'd find a way to get it somehow.
...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I think the issue is that you'd have to go about explaining how John wins with prep instead of just that "he'd find a way".

Z says ' Spear of Destiny, appear' backwards..

Hey, I've read worse deus ex machina plot developments lol

By stealing it or making a deal on whoever has it...like he has done in the past.

Tbh, it's not really a problem for Constantine to get his hands on anything....he has a plot device in the form of Z.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
By stealing it or making a deal on whoever has it...like he has done in the past.

In one day and they would automatically go for the spear of destiny? Naaaaaaaa.....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Z says ' Spear of Destiny, appear' backwards..

Hey, I've read worse deus ex machina plot developments lol

Or the other team can do that themselves. Plus Talisman outright can cancel magic so literally could make Z powerless or use her magic to make her stronger.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Tbh, it's not really a problem for Constantine to get his hands on anything....he has a plot device in the form of Z.

One guy on another forum said COnstnatine hasn't really done anything. (LOL worthy). Another poster stated this...





OWNED!

Originally posted by -K-M-
In one day and they would automatically go for the spear of destiny? Naaaaaaaa.....

It took me a few hours to think of it. I'm no prepmaster - if you think I'm more cunning than Constantine, well, you do me honour, sir.




Would they know about the Spear? I thought it was very different in Marvel.

And I thought prep meant they showed up on the battlefield with it?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Would they know about the Spear? I thought it was very different in Marvel.

And I thought prep meant they showed up on the battlefield with it?

It is, team marvel could pull out an equally powerful weapon from the Marvel universe, but I seriously don't see them doing that in just a day nor would they automatically go to that great lengths nor do I see team DC doing that either as it's not in their character.

Yes they would show up with it.

Constantine would do anything to win, so I can see it. He's a cheap bastard.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Constantine would do anything to win, so I can see it. He's a cheap bastard.

In a meaningless fight that he doesn't have anything to gain from? Not really in character.

Shaman's pouch.

But he doesn't really have anything to lose, either, by summoning it....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
But he doesn't really have anything to lose, either, by summoning it....

but why would he instantly go for it? Following that logic team marvel could gather the Infinity Gems forming the Infinty Gauntlet. Not really in character for either.

Plus Spectre currently has it I believe, and Constaine would need more then one day to steal it from him. Zee would be killed if he tried to steal it from him. He mentioned if he summoned him again he would kill her.

Dude, you're making this more difficult than it really is. Let's say Constantine wants to defeat Shaman so he can gain access to his pouch and learn the magic in Marvel ways. To gain more knowleadge. It's a battle board, man.

From the rules of the board....

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

Standard Equipment
Each side starts out with the equipment that they normally and have been shown to consistently carry on them. For example, Daredevil would have his billy-club, but Reed Richards would not have the Ultimate Nullifier.
In a scenario fight, the contestants in whose city/reality the fight takes place are allowed access to any material resources they usually have there or of any team they're active members of, as long as they can reasonably get to them. For example, in a scenario set in the DCU, Green Lantern would have access to equipment in the JLA Watchtower, but not the Titans headquarters.
Beta Ray Bill would not have Scuttlebutt and Batman would not have the Batmobile, unless otherwise noted in the open post.

Basic Knowledge
Each side receives basic knowledge of the other. A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows. For example, that Superman has a weakness to Kryptonite is general knowledge, but that he's Clark Kent is not.

No outside help
Unless specified otherwise, no contestant may call for outside assistance, even in scenario matches. For example, Captain America cannot call in the Avengers during a fight with Batman.

Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels".

What your proposing or stated earlier is against the rules of the board. So since they have basic knowledge their automatically going to go for the Spear of Destiny, even though it's not in character nor is it reasonable or easy for them to get?

Hmm, basic knowleadge still might favor Constantine.

Not really, you could say it benefits the other team as well. It's just basic knowledge. So no as per the rules and in character Zee nor John are going for the Spear of Destiny. As I mentioned I could have Talisman and Shaman going for the Infinity Guantlet but I won't...as it's not in character and one day is not a lot of prep.

I'm sure Spectre owes him some favors. With the board rules, Constantine is in trouble. Without the rules, Constantine wins, IMO.

Ok show me where Spectre owes him favors.

Sure if you completly ignore his character

We'd be ignoring everyones character. Why would Shaman fight Constantine in the first place?

Originally posted by -K-M-
From the rules of the board....

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t461496.html

Excellent, let's play.




So....as per the rules, since someone like GL has access to the Watchtower, Zatanna and Constantine have access to anything they can reasonably obtain? So seeing as it Z, as long as she can reasonably get to them, she has it? Excellent. That shoudn't be too hard, as she can just collect things by saying it backwards.



Even better. The general populace of Marvel would know of Shaman and Talisman, but the general populace of DC know Z as a stage magician, and nobody would know of Constantine. If anything, this plays into team DC's hands..


Constantine has sold his best friend to the Devil. Has bargained using his own niece's soul. Uses his only other friend left in the world, Chas, as bait. Not in character? He doesn't do magic for the good of mankind, he does it for the adrenaline rush. What better than to steal something from the Spectre?

Basic knowledge means that he knows Shaman is a member of Alpha Flight, a member of a top notch superhero team, and not one to be taken lightly. Basic knowledge of Constantine in the DC U is that he's a conman.

Actually, Zatanna has SUMMONED the Spectre before. In character feat. Spectre has the Spear of Destiny? Bad news for team 1, IMO.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So....as per the rules, since someone like GL has access to the Watchtower, Zatanna and Constantine have access to anything they can reasonably obtain? So seeing as it Z, as long as she can reasonably get to them, she has it? Excellent. That shoudn't be too hard, as she can just collect things by saying it backwards.

She's not a JLA member and hasn't been for years so she WOULDN'T have access. Talisman on the other hand has shown the power to teleport an entire city with thousands of people into a different dimension. Also as I mentioned earlier the Void has millions of spills and artifacts at their fingertips. This seems to be ignored.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Even better. The general populace of Marvel would know of Shaman and Talisman, but the general populace of DC know Z as a stage magician, and nobody would know of Constantine. If anything, this plays into team DC's hands..

No they ALL get basic knowledge of each other.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Constantine has sold his best friend to the Devil. Has bargained using his own niece's soul. Uses his only other friend left in the world, Chas, as bait. Not in character? He doesn't do magic for the good of mankind, he does it for the adrenaline rush. What better than to steal something from the Spectre?

Yeah all for personal gain, which he wouldn't get here. So no not in character

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Basic knowledge means that he knows Shaman is a member of Alpha Flight, a member of a top notch superhero team, and not one to be taken lightly. Basic knowledge of Constantine in the DC U is that he's a conman.

No they would know more then, and Shaman isn't the most powerful here. Talisman is, she can control skyfather beings. Alpha Flight is far from well known if you go that route.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Actually, Zatanna has SUMMONED the Spectre before. In character feat. Spectre has the Spear of Destiny? Bad news for team 1, IMO.

Yeah I already mentioned it and he said if she tries that again he will kill her. Bwahaha no also rules of the board you can't do that as that is outside help.

Originally posted by -K-M-
She's not a JLA member and hasn't been for years so she WOULDN'T have access. Talisman on the other hand has shown the power to teleport an entire city with thousands of people into a different dimension. Also as I mentioned earlier the Void has millions of spills and artifacts at their fingertips. This seems to be ignored.
I didn't limit her to the Watchtower - I meant ANYTHING, because for her, 'reasonable access' doesn't limit her at all. And no, I didn't ignore it - I didn't think it an issue, because the Spear is 'always on', so as soon as they enter the battlefield, they are negated.




Please read the rules. It said:
A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows.

In Marvel, Shaman/Talisman are both members of a public superhero team.

In DC, Z is known as a stage magician. The heroes know her as a bonafide magic user, but the general population think of her as David Copperfield. And the general population of DC don't know of John.


Actually, no. Not always for personal gain. Like when he angered the First of the Fallen over Brendan, his friend - he didn't gain anything from pissing him off.




See above.



Not my point, so I cannot comment on Prep's. But I was not going to summon Spectre, merely summon the Spear.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I didn't limit her to the Watchtower - I meant ANYTHING, because for her, 'reasonable access' doesn't limit her at all. And no, I didn't ignore it - I didn't think it an issue, because the Spear is 'always on', so as soon as they enter the battlefield, they are negated.

No she can't go just anywhere, it HAS TO BE IN CHARACTER. You're not going for the spear as once again that is against the rules.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Please read the rules. It said:
A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows.

In Marvel, Shaman/Talisman are both members of a public superhero team.

In DC, Z is known as a stage magician. The heroes know her as a bonafide magic user, but the general population think of her as David Copperfield. And the general population of DC don't know of John.

I have read them and no as Digi mentioned the person who made the rules they get basic knowledge of each other.

Which they are not well known

Followng that logic, John and Zee have BOTH been part of the JLA. Far more mainstream then Alpha Flight

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Actually, no. Not always for personal gain. Like when he angered the First of the Fallen over Brendan, his friend - he didn't gain anything from pissing him off.


Yet oncr again team marvel has done him no wrong, no cause for him to be angry and there is no personal gain. Your ignoring all their characters. Fine using your logic Team Marvel summons the Infinity Gauntlet

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not my point, so I cannot comment on Prep's. But I was not going to summon Spectre, merely summon the Spear.

As per the rules you can't do that, nor is it once again in character Fine following your logic Talisman summons Eternity and asks for help as she is his agent.

And it's in character of a high mage like Talisman attacking a con man with hardly any power of his own?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
And it's in character of a high mage like Talisman attacking a con man with hardly any power of his own?

As you said this is a battle thread and their meant to fight. Also she has knocked out "norms" before, especially when a team wants to fight them which Team DC would be doing here. Now you guys are being ridiculous

But what does he have to gain?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
But what does he have to gain?

Nothing, it's a fight. Hence why they won't be going completly out of character and aquiring weapons and artifacts they have no way of getting or out of their character to try to get and as per the rules of the board....they won't be.

Summon your spear, I'll summon the Infinity Gauntlet with your guys logic

Spear owns all.

Originally posted by -K-M-
No she can't go just anywhere, it HAS TO BE IN CHARACTER. You're not going for the spear as once again that is against the rules.





Basic - what would you define by that? Their names, abilities, weaknesses, personal likes and dislikes, fav Backstreet Boys' song? Or, as Digi himself said:
A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows.



No, but at least they are known as heroes. Z is known as a performer and John isn't known at all.


Has he? OK, I admit, I didn't know that.


How does Marvel win, then? By killing team DC? Or by wiping them out? Is the universe at stake? Is Z at stake? If the consequences of losing are high enough, yeah, I think he'd do what he can to win.....

But if yes, if by losing all he loses is a slap on the wrist, then yeah, he'd just sit there, and roll over for them.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Spear owns all.

No it doesn't, nor has it shown the level of power the Gauntlet has. If that's not enough then they go to the Heart of the Universe

Originally posted by -K-M-
No it doesn't, nor has it shown the level of power the Gauntlet has. If that's not enough then they go to the Heart of the Universe

then...then....ARRGH!

Lol. Was a good fight, I think. Obv we will have to agree to disagree here!

Talisman doesn't gain anything, so he loses.

Wait, wait, when has Constantine been apart of the JLA?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Basic - what would you define by that? Their names, abilities, weaknesses, personal likes and dislikes, fav Backstreet Boys' song? Or, as Digi himself said:
A good measure of this would be what the general population of the character's homeworld knows.

Name and basic abilities, not their weakness unless it's pretty mainstream which none of the characters are.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
No, but at least they are known as heroes. Z is known as a performer and John isn't known at all.

Same is said about both of them and Zee has been part of the JLA for years. The population knows her more then just a performer.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
How does Marvel win, then? By killing team DC? Or by wiping them out? Is the universe at stake? Is Z at stake? If the consequences of losing are high enough, yeah, I think he'd do what he can to win.....

But if yes, if by losing all he loses is a slap on the wrist, then yeah, he'd just sit there, and roll over for them.

Just by KO, they won't kill as that's not in character. No the universe is not at stake and there is no other consequence or the thread starter would have mentioned it. They just fight as per the rules of the board.

That's basically it, there is nothing to gain for either team it's just a fight and they don't get anything from it or is anything at risk. If there is to motivate people the thread starter has to state it.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Talisman doesn't gain anything, so he loses.

Right so she wouldn't go for the Gauntlet or go completly out of character which your trying so hard to do for Team DC.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Wait, wait, when has Constantine been apart of the JLA?

Current DC reboot. Prior to the reboot he was at several JLA functions including some funerals.

Oh, i thought you meant a member. He is on the justice League dark, but he likes to keep a low profile.

Originally posted by -K-M-

Current DC reboot. Prior to the reboot he was at several JLA functions including some funerals.

Pretty sure that's JL Dark, and they haven't become official, and have only just banded together.

As for funerals, really? That's all it takes for membership these days? Man.

No, Constantine isn't a full fledged member. So, it's not basic knowledge.

For two powerful magical users yes that would be basic. If you want to argue that, Talisman the Spirit-Binder calls forth the spirit of time and space and orders it to tell her everything about them

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e54/A_Flight6/AlphaFlight81-03.jpg

One side is not going to have more information on the other starting out, they all have basic knowledge of each other. If in the prep they want to research and learn more about their oponents sure that can work. Yet neither one of you propossed that. You assume John and Zatana would be experts on team Marvel and team Marvel would know nothing about them...lulz.

Notice how I stay in the realm of how their characters are shown, while you guys are trying to rewrite them?

Also, one last point before I head out:

Why would Constantine fight in the first place, since we are going by what they do in character?

He only gets into fights for three reasons:
1. Protect himself
2. Protect close friends and family
3. Protect the world from global destruction and the end of life as we know it.

He's not like other comic characters, who fly around solving occult mysteries - DC already has the primate for that, and he's called Detective Chimp. He only fights when the stakes are high enough. So to get him into a fight, and to give him prep, and to give him basic knowledge of his opponents, and then to say, actually, he's not going to put that much effort in - he's not going to just come in with some cheap conjuring sleight of hand tricks, is he?

Or maybe he does.......

As for the knowledge thing, KM, no, I didn't think they'd be experts, merely that they'd know they were up against powerful magic opponents. Hardly expertise. Whereas Team Marvel wouldn't know that John and Z were THAT big players. I'm not saying Constantine and Z know EVERYTHING about Team Marvel, you misunderstand me.