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Fight to the death. Who wins?

Can either really die? I say 8th day

World Breaker Hulk.

How is Hulk hurting Juggernaut?

Punching usually works.

If it's the Juggernaut from the Thor tie-in (Where he was for some inexplicit reason amped significantly), Hulk would definitely have a harder time. He'd use Cain as a punching bag for a long time.

Hard to see Hulk doing it.

I can. It would be far from the worst thing that has happened to Cain.

as strong as hulk is, juggernaut is still virtually invunerable based on the writer. Im sorry to say this, but Hulk cant even tickle him.

Yeah it probably wouldnt tickle when hulks fist goes through his face

Originally posted by Damborgson
Yeah it probably wouldnt tickle when hulks fist goes through his face lmao

I hope this shit never happens in a comic. I'd throw it away on principal.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
as strong as hulk is, juggernaut is still virtually invunerable based on the writer. Im sorry to say this, but Hulk cant even tickle him.


Cain was momentarily taken aback when he was hit by Thor, so your statement is probably not true.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I hope this shit never happens in a comic. I'd throw it away on principal. why?

Originally posted by Starscream M
why?

Because I have no desire to see Worldbreaker Hulk vs. 8th Day Juggernaut throw down in some comic that will probably destroy planets in addition to whatever characterization is left.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Because I have no desire to see Worldbreaker Hulk vs. 8th Day Juggernaut throw down in some comic that will probably destroy planets in addition to whatever characterization is left. don't be such a comic snob...it would be entertaining as hell if they did it as a what if.

Originally posted by Starscream M
don't be such a comic snob...it would be entertaining as hell if they did it as a what if.

Sorry if I don't think being powerful in of itself equals good comics.

Hulk. Definitely.

Hulkie Buy blows himself up, dies. Juggs survives, wins.

Tough, but I gotta give it to WBH

Originally posted by Damborgson
Yeah it probably wouldnt tickle when hulks fist goes through his face could an aluminum hammer dent a solid titanium wall?

Juggernaut takes this. No Hulk in any form has ever hurt Juggs

Hulk definitely.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Hulk definitely. how? by brute force? that will never work with juggernaut

Originally posted by Mshinu
Hulkie Buy blows himself up, dies. Juggs survives, wins.
Naw Jugg is softer than his wife.

WBH melts Juggs from the shockwaves of his punches, WHILST HOLDING BACK!

Hulk stands no chance here. Hulk would kill himself way before Juggernaut got serious.

Hulk has defeated Juggernaut already.
Recipe for Hulk victory:
Hulk get mad, hulk get stronger he's infinite power. He blew up a planet and when he walks the floor cracks. One thunderclap to the head knocking out the helmwt and its game over

That wouldnt work. Juggernaut cannot be harmed physically and thats all Hulk can do so Hulk can win. Unless he develops some brand new powers (ie mind control or mysticism) he will lose. A planet exploding wont hurt Juggernaut but it would hurt Hulk.

Hulk only beats Juggernaut by BFR or with help. Hulk has never KOed Juggs to my knowlege but Juggs has KOed Hulk

Juggernaut definitely

Originally posted by juggerman
Hulk only beats Juggernaut by BFR or with help. Hulk has never KOed Juggs to my knowlege but Juggs has KOed Hulk
You don't want to bring up that story in the jungle because it wasn't Juggernaut that came out looking better.

Was juggernaut KOed by Hulk? Bring up whatever you like but i dont believe Hulk has beaten Juggs without Bfr or some kind of assistance.

If im wrong please show me and will admit i was wrong

Originally posted by juggerman
Was juggernaut KOed by Hulk? Bring up whatever you like but i dont believe Hulk has beaten Juggs without Bfr or some kind of assistance.

If im wrong please show me and will admit i was wrong
Hulk punched Juggernaut to his knees and was about to seemingly finish Juggs off until plot saved him (as has been the case several times in his career).

8th Day Juggernaut while formidable, was hurt several times during that arc, WBH brings a whole different level of physical power than Thor and the other Exemplars.

Being knocked down or brought to your knees doesnt signify he felt pain. I could push over anybody without them being hurt. And i believe Juggernaut is only supposed to be harmed by mysticism or mental attacks so if by following this logic than no matter how powerful Hulk becomes he will never be able to KO Juggernaut. On the other hand Juggernaut would still be able to hurt Hulk.

It just seems logical that if Juggs cant be hurt by purely physical means and Hulk only has purely physical means in which to hurt him than Hulk cannot win this fight.

Originally posted by Nihilist
WBH melts Juggs from the shockwaves of his punches, WHILST HOLDING BACK!

Juggs and pretty easily at that

Ok Hulk punching Juggs in the stomach and hurting him is obviously PIS dont know why do people bring that up as proof....

Originally posted by juggerman
Hulk only beats Juggernaut by BFR or with help. Hulk has never KOed Juggs to my knowlege but Juggs has KOed Hulk

Juggernaut looks hurt to me and was actually saved in this fight from getting crushed by Hulk.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/juggslayout.jpg

Juggernaut durability is overated and a pissed Hulk could take him out.

Originally posted by Estacado
Ok Hulk punching Juggs in the stomach and hurting him is obviously PIS dont know why do people bring that up as proof....

Who punch has Jugs tanked that is stronger than the Hulk punch that is shown in the scans.?

Originally posted by carver9
Who punch has Jugs tanked that is stronger than the Hulk punch that is shown in the scans.?
How about he tanked the God Blast without saying ouch?

Originally posted by carver9
Juggernaut looks hurt to me and was actually saved in this fight from getting crushed by Hulk.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/Hulk3389/comic%20book%20scans/juggslayout.jpg

Juggernaut durability is overated and a pissed Hulk could take him out. Um, without reading the comic itself, that scan certainly implies that it was an illusion. srsly

Originally posted by Galan007
Um, without reading the comic itself, that scan certainly implies that it was an illusion. srsly
And off course there is that scan where writers say Juggs>>>Hulk.

Originally posted by Reacting2
could an aluminum hammer dent a solid titanium wall? that question isnt relevant. Could hulks fist hurt juggernaut? Yup.

Originally posted by Galan007
Um, without reading the comic itself, that scan certainly implies that it was an illusion. srsly

The illusion was Juggernaut appearing as Hulks father.

Originally posted by Estacado
How about he tanked the God Blast without saying ouch?

It doesnt work like that and that was a weakened God blast from a weakened Thor.

Originally posted by Estacado
How about he tanked the God Blast without saying ouch?
He used his forcefield. Something he no longer has.

Well, they way I see it, they're both extemely durable to physical attacks, but I don't think Juggs can withstand the World breaker for to long, or he gets destroyed

Juggernaut all day. Hulk has nothing he can actually do to him

Hulkie Boy loses, he never had and never will have it in him to stand up to The Juggernaut. Bit*h!

What is with Juggernaut lately? Is he still that strong and durable?
Classic Juggernaut was the real deal (I still think WBH wins), but he somehow got weakened, not what he was supposed to be like. I did read he became even more powerful than in his classic form (re-empowered by Cyttorak). So how is he currently?

He fell off a cliff and was never seen again

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
He fell off a cliff and was never seen again

Thanks!

And when did that happen?

It seems Marvel forgot about him.

There's a huge difference in strength between the Hulk being used in this thread, and the Juggernaut. A regular full powered Cain took months to dig himself out of a temple that caved in, and weeks to months to dig himself out of the foundation that Spiderman trapped him in. Whereas the Hulk at a much weaker level held up a mountain, shifted a tectonic plate on a planet larger than Earth. How can these two even be compared when it comes to sheer strength output?

Cain shouldn't even be able to hurt WBHulk and if he did it would most certainly be PIS, which isn't being used here. 8th Day was overcome by his mystical brethren, which shows that he isn't impossible to be hurt or stopped. They were a pretty powerful group, being able to defeat both Thor, and Hercules, but the Hulk was measured to be more powerful than a lot more than that. Hulk wins this all day everyday.

He still did beat Skaar handily until Skaar tricked him.

This is either a stalemate or Juggs loses.

Current jugs shitstomps,classic also wins, hulk can't do anything to him. I wonder why he was at the gathering at UXM #600,did he forgive scott already?

Originally posted by Hulkbuster1
Hulk has defeated Juggernaut already.
Recipe for Hulk victory:
Hulk get mad, hulk get stronger he's infinite power. He blew up a planet and when he walks the floor cracks. One thunderclap to the head knocking out the helmwt and its game over

8TH DAY JUGGERNAUT, NOT REGULAR JUGGERNAUT

I don't know how you go about picking an actual winner.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
He used his forcefield. Something he no longer has.

evidence?

Originally posted by Stoic
There's a huge difference in strength between the Hulk being used in this thread, and the Juggernaut. A regular full powered Cain took months to dig himself out of a temple that caved in, and weeks to months to dig himself out of the foundation that Spiderman trapped him in. Whereas the Hulk at a much weaker level held up a mountain, shifted a tectonic plate on a planet larger than Earth. How can these two even be compared when it comes to sheer strength output?

Cain shouldn't even be able to hurt WBHulk and if he did it would most certainly be PIS, which isn't being used here. 8th Day was overcome by his mystical brethren, which shows that he isn't impossible to be hurt or stopped. They were a pretty powerful group, being able to defeat both Thor, and Hercules, but the Hulk was measured to be more powerful than a lot more than that. Hulk wins this all day everyday.

I think you have a lot of holes in your stance, Stoic. You just admitted 8th Juggs was overcome by MYSTIC brethren. Well Hulk ain't mystic. Also, you are comparing selective feats in favor of Hulk.

http://comics.batanga.com/sites/comics.batanga.com/files/imagecache/completa/Juggernaut-vs-Hulk-17.jpg

To the death, eh?

Juggy wins.

Juggernaut receives the worst beat down in comic history.

i tend to agree....

Carver9 is one of those idiots who no sane person can take seriously.

Classic Juggernaut is stronger than Thor in terms of strength according to the writers. According to the writers 8th day Saga Juggernuat was even stronger.

Any time Juggernaut is showing being hurt by physical force is just poor ass writing. His character's bio states he is immune to physical based attacks regardless of how powerful they are.

The Juggernuat is immortal as long as he is connected to Cyttorak. 8th day or Current Juggernaut would destroy War Breakers Hulk

Originally posted by big juggy man
Carver9 is one of those idiots who no sane person can take seriously.

http://i.imgur.com/U5F6Gbt.png

Originally posted by big juggy man
Carver9 is one of those idiots who no sane person can take seriously.

Classic Juggernaut is stronger than Thor in terms of strength according to the writers. According to the writers 8th day Saga Juggernuat was even stronger.

Any time Juggernaut is showing being hurt by physical force is just poor ass writing. His character's bio states he is immune to physical based attacks regardless of how powerful they are.

The Juggernuat is immortal as long as he is connected to Cyttorak. 8th day or Current Juggernaut would destroy War Breakers Hulk

Lol at me being the idiot and you using a bioas reference in a debate. WTF. Hulk bio states that he is the most powerful being on the planet. It also states that he is the strongest being on the planet. I'm sure you agree with this, don't you?

Lol...debating doesn't work like that. Juggernaut has been hurt more times than him tanking powerful attacks. He isn't true invulnerability.

Lol...Juggernaut has died before. Lol at him being immortal.

Comics isn't that expensive. It's best to pick one up instead of reading wiki bios.

Going with 8th Day Juggernaut, primarily because I don't think he *can* be killed... Especially by brute force alone. I mean, even IF Hulk inextricably bypassed the enchantment and caused him physical damage, Juggy can still fully function as a skeleton, ffs:
http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/26894981_1.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/26894982_Juggernaut_0036.jpg

He's just so haxx when written properly.

Well there are two things that are unknown. Cain's ability to hurt Hulk which is negligible, and the Hulk's ability to kill Cain which is also negligible. I do however imagine that the Hulk would swat Cain around like a ball of yarn, while Cain would be unable to return the favor. I've read people launching the famous no limits fallacy. So, is it true that Juggernaut has no limit to his durability? Is he a true immortal, and outside of the realm of Death? If this is true, Superboy Prime, Odin, Zeus, Galactus, Thanos, Superman and a slew of other characters would eventually lose to the Juggernaut without us really knowing whether or not he had a hard limit. However, the Hulk has hurt him before. the Exemplars shut him down, and were more than capable of killing him, so I guess he does have a limit. He showed that he had a limit to his strength as well, unless we wanted to ignore that it took him years to dig himself out of a collapsed temple ruin. WB Hulk would have freed himself from that within seconds. Written properly does not somehow mean that Cain was ever completely invulnerable to physical attack. Or is this the one time that the no limits fallacy can be waived?

Originally posted by carver9
Juggernaut receives the worst beat down in comic history.

Scans of this killing 8th Day. OP said to the death.

Please, I know your next tactic. Turn it round on me, and attempt to deflect by asking for scans, without answering the initial question.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Scans of this killing 8th Day. OP said to the death.

Please, I know your next tactic. Turn it round on me, and attempt to deflect by asking for scans, without answering the initial question.

So what if he KO'd him? Cain has been KO'd before. How long would he have to remain in that condition before it would be considered a loss? From all of the books that I've read with the Juggernaut in, I have yet to see one that shows him to be at WB Hulk's level of strength. Like I said, and it wasn't to low ball him, but more to give an accurate, or quantifiable scale in relation to his level of strength. It took him years to dig himself out of a collapsed temple, and months to free himself from the foundation that Spiderman trapped him in. I wouldn't call that world braking strength. Would you? I mean would he even be able to hurt this version of the Hulk?

Well, thread OPspecified WBH, and to the death.

I can ask, well what happens if it was Gray Hulk?

It means nothing, as OP said WBH.

So a KO is well and good, but OP specified to the death. You can ask about a KO, but its like me asking about Gray, or Banner, or Rulk, or etc etc etc.

Well I don't believe that the Juggernaut is beyond death, but then again I've never seen anything that stated that he could actually die aside from an alternate reality Juggernaut nearly being killed in the New Warriors. I guess that I can't imagine Mr. Immortal beating Superman either, but I guess that he'd win one day when Superman died of old age. WB Hulk could certainly KO him, and that would be enough for me, especially if Cain could not actually die.

Yeah but OPsaid to the death.

It's like going into a thread and saying Superman wins by BFR even when OP specified its off.

Originally posted by big juggy man
Any time Juggernaut is showing being hurt by physical force is just poor ass writing. His character's bio states he is immune to physical based attacks regardless of how powerful they are.

And who can take you seriously after saying such nonsense.?


Classic Juggernaut or re-empowered Juggernaut doesn't stand a chance against WBH in a fight.

I don't know enought about 8th Juggernaut.

WBH stomps and it isnt close.

Originally posted by Galan007
Going with 8th Day Juggernaut, primarily because I don't think he *can* be killed... Especially by brute force alone. I mean, even IF Hulk inextricably bypassed the enchantment and caused him physical damage, Juggy can still fully function as a skeleton, ffs:
http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/26894981_1.jpg http://s6d7.turboimg.net/t/26894982_Juggernaut_0036.jpg

He's just so haxx when written properly.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Naija boy
WBH stomps and it isnt close.

So you believe WBH can permenantly kill Juggs? Doesn't more powerful versions of Juggs regenerate? WBH would have to remove his enchantment so that he can die.

I have absolutely no problem thinking WBH can ko Juggs. But permanently kill him?
I'm not too sure?

Stalemate. WBH probably can't kill Jugs while there isn't a thing Jugs can do to WBH

Juggernaut wins

Juggernaut. Simply because he has infinite durability

This is simple. Juggernaut got killed with a thump by a weakened character. Hulk fought this same character that amped himself FAR past what he was when he faced Juggernaut. This weaker version killed Juggernaut with a finger; this same being while amped got turned to dust from a punch from Hulk. The power difference between Hulk and Juggernaut is HUGE once Hulk steps his game up. This isn't even including WBH who DWARFS Juggernaut in power. WBH kills him.

Carver, time for your meds.

Lol...why you say that?

Originally posted by carver9
This is simple. Juggernaut got killed with a thump by a weakened character. Hulk fought this same character that amped himself FAR past what he was when he faced Juggernaut. This weaker version killed Juggernaut with a finger; this same being while amped got turned to dust from a punch from Hulk. The power difference between Hulk and Juggernaut is HUGE once Hulk steps his game up. This isn't even including WBH who DWARFS Juggernaut in power. WBH kills him.

Scans.

@Doctor Carvoom

Because you're not making any sense. What story arc are you referring to?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Scans.

He has those scans in the same folder he's keeping your naked pics in.

Name of the folder:

yellow dick

Lies.

There doesn't exist a storage medium large enough.

HE might be meaning Nightmare and Mindless Hulk lol

Originally posted by HulkIsHulk
HE

Yes, carver is High Evolutionary.

Dammit, Hulk. We've been keeping it a secret for years.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lies.

There doesn't exist a storage medium large enough.

File size: less than 1 byte.

Don't worry, carver is offering his black dick to you. With today's medical wonders, you can transplant it easily.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes, carver is High Evolutionary.

Dammit, Hulk. We've been keeping it a secret for years.
I meant this guy

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/ Highly_Evolved_Creature_Totally_Orientated_on_Reve
nge_(Earth-9602)

Cut out and paste at the end

Did so even before you posted

Quick

Highly Evolved Carver Totally Orientated on Revenge

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
@Doctor Carvoom

Because you're not making any sense. What story arc are you referring to?

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72848/1351785-onslaught_vs_cain.jpg

Here is another one shot before he got his chest caved in with a finger.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kxF371gMSro/TDxgF6ixR4I/AAAAAAAANqA/5Yi8DuMCxcY/s1600/x+14.JPG

Do I need to post the rest?

That's 8th Day Juggy?

Explains a lot.

Juggy is dead there?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's 8th Day Juggy?

Explains a lot.

Juggy is dead there?

Lol... what difference would it have made. Onslaught treated normal Juggernaut like fodder. Killed him with a finger. One punched him with a hit. How much more powerful is 8th days from regular Juggernaut? Remember, Thor tier characters were damaging him.

Ah, so no scans then? Thought not.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Ah, so no scans then? Thought not.

Hulk stomps based off what I provided.

Onslaught is made out of Juggy's weakness. Fact.

Plot device bs gem removal from Cain's body... even though it was not even supposed to be inside him, but whatever... some reality warping here, probably.

Hulk technically didn't finish Onslaught, btw.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Onslaught is made out of Juggy's weakness. Fact.

Plot device bs gem removal from Cain's body... even though it was not even supposed to be inside him, but whatever... some reality warping here, probably.

Hulk technically didn't finish Onslaught, btw.

Juggy weakness?. He bullied him.

But it was in Cain and what did we see, him opening a hole in Juggernaut chest with a flex of his finger.

You're right, Hulk didn't finish him off but Onslaught physical, far more powerful shell (than the one Jugs faced) got cracked to pieces. Hell, during the fight, Reed and everyone else thought it was the end of everything.

Yes, Juggy's weakness. Psionic being, psionic powers.

Cool. Hulk got impaled by a road sign. You sure you want to continue?

Hulk didn't even battle Onslaught under his own power; Jean unlocked his potential.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes, Juggy's weakness. Psionic being, psionic powers.

Cool. Hulk got impaled by a road sign. You sure you want to continue?

Hulk didn't even battle Onslaught under his own power; Jean unlocked his potential.

Don't get where you are going with this since Onslaught PHYSICALLY crushed Cain.

A weakened Hulk. I don't even understand why you are going there. Did Juggernaut face the same road sign that impaled Hulk? Are you implying that Onslaught beating Juggernaut is a low showing? Don't get it.

Jean removed Banner from his mind. Hindering Banner from holding Hulk back. Everything Hulk did against Onslaught was under his own power. He was basically Savage Hulk (I'M THE STRONGEST ONE THERE IS).

He could exist on both planes of existence at the same time, let's stop pretending he was some one-dimensional brick character, ffs. And Cain was w/o his helmet, btw.

A weakened Hulk maxed out by Grey > average Hulk, cool you agree.

Normally, Banner is there... CIS/CIP is on. Removing Banner made the huge difference.

Lol at the poor deluded fanboi

Are you the promised KMCessiah that will get the world free of carvers in all shape and form?

What did 8th day do? I honestly cant remember as i liked the trion arc better

Originally posted by Sin I AM
What did 8th day do?

Raped carver's entire family.

Shitstomped Thor, too.

Carver is just the worst.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Are you the promised KMCessiah that will get the world free of carvers in all shape and form?

I'm not with Jugs to win here, but the wankage of hulk from the fanboi has to stop.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
I'm not with Jugs to win here, but the wankage of hulk from the fanboi has to stop.

So you are here to eradicate the carvers! I shall help you.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h204/killer-ra/you_have_my_sword.jpg

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He could exist on both planes of existence at the same time, let's stop pretending he was some one-dimensional brick character, ffs. And Cain was w/o his helmet, btw.

A weakened Hulk maxed out by Grey > average Hulk, cool you agree.

Normally, Banner is there... CIS/CIP is on. Removing Banner made the huge difference.

But yet on panel we was told that he was punched across states. What does his helmet being off have to do with Onslaught punching a hole in his chest.

Huh? I don't understand where you are going with this. What does any of this have to do with Onslaught fighting both Juggernaut and the Hulk? You bringing up the character entire history doesn't take away from what I said.

Onslaught getting wrecked by Hulk due to Banner not being in the driver seat holding back Hulk power goes with exactly what I said.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Are you the promised KMCessiah that will get the world free of carvers in all shape and form?

I think he is in love with me. I have that affect on people.

Originally posted by Naija boy
WBH stomps and it isnt close.

damn, when naj chimes in it's a done deal. how the hell you been old timer??

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
So you are here to eradicate the carvers! I shall help you.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h204/killer-ra/you_have_my_sword.jpg

Thanks. Carver's stupidity needs to be erradicated

Originally posted by carver9
I think he is in love with me. I have that affect on people.

The fact that you shit on my penis doesn't mean love you

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
The fact that you shit on my penis doesn't mean love you

You're pretty nasty bro.

Originally posted by carver9
You're pretty nasty bro.

And you are pretty...










.dumb

:/

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
And you are pretty...










.dumb

Are you ok? Seems like you've been kinda angry lately?

Originally posted by carver9
Are you ok? Seems like you've been kinda angry lately?

Perfect.

But your stupidity deserves special care like you

Originally posted by leonidas
damn, when naj chimes in it's a done deal. how the hell you been old timer??

Ive been good man. between work and family been a bit more difficult to keep up with the comic world but I've finally gotten time to start catching up on a lot of the stuff I missed over the past year and decided to pop in to see if the old forum was still kickin. Doesn't seem quite as active as it once was but good to see it along with OGs like yourself are still here.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Perfect.

But your stupidity deserves special care like you

I was just checking on ya to see if you were straight. You have a good one bro.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f2/d2/ba/f2d2ba52d6760fc5448c4e347b18a2ea.jpg

Thanks IDIOT!

also...

http://static2.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/7/72524/4336852-2963709363-Incre.jpg

So the concensus is stalemate then?

Until Juggy simply outlasts him.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Until Juggy simply outlasts him.

I swear your nekked pics were posted here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=15709055#post15709055

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Until Juggy simply outlasts him.

Sounds legit. I don't think even this version of Bruce has the power to overcome cytorraks enchantment. Why is Onslaught being brought up though? I didn't scroll back and fail to see his relevance

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Why is Onslaught being brought up though?

Quick summary of carverism in this thread:

ONSLAUGHT STRONG ONSLAUGHT BEAT JUGG BUT HULK STRONGER THAN ONSLOOOO AND JUGGG TOGETHER!!!!!!!!@@@@!!!!!!@@@@!!!!

/end

Originally posted by h1a8
So you believe WBH can permenantly kill Juggs? Doesn't more powerful versions of Juggs regenerate? WBH would have to remove his enchantment so that he can die.

I have absolutely no problem thinking WBH can ko Juggs. But permanently kill him?
I'm not too sure?

If I had to bet, id bet on Juggs giving way first. The difference in strength between he and WBH is quite astronomical and to the tune of several, several, several orders of magnitude. I doubt he has the ability to hurt WBH let alone inflict enough damage to overcome his healing factor which similar to his strength would be amped exponentially from its regular levels.

On the other hand, 8th day Juggernaut while powerful, was still able to be physically affected and is laughably inferior to WBH physically. Further Juggernaut in general on more than one occasion has had his enchantment overcome (Godblast, WWH, Onslaught, War Hulk) etc. Ergo the idea that his enchantment is some all be end all factor that cannot be overcome is demonstrably false and little more than classic no limit fallacy forum lore not supported by the comics.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Quick summary of carverism in this thread:

ONSLAUGHT STRONG ONSLAUGHT BEAT JUGG BUT HULK STRONGER THAN ONSLOOOO AND JUGGG TOGETHER!!!!!!!!@@@@!!!!!!@@@@!!!!

/end

Originally posted by Naija boy
If I had to bet, id bet on Juggs giving way first. The difference in strength between he and WBH is quite astronomical and to the tune of several, several, several orders of magnitude. I doubt he has the ability to hurt WBH let alone inflict enough damage to overcome his healing factor which similar to his strength would be amped exponentially from its regular levels.

On the other hand, 8th day Juggernaut while powerful, was still able to be physically affected and is laughably inferior to WBH physically. Further Juggernaut in general on more than one occasion has had his enchantment overcome (Godblast, WWH, Onslaught, War Hulk) etc. Ergo the idea that his enchantment is some all be end all factor that cannot be overcome is demonstrably false and little more than classic no limit fallacy forum lore not supported by the comics.

I'm not arguing the notion that Juggs can't get hurt or KOed. I don't believe Juggs can even phase WBH. My view is that any damage Juggs face will result in regeneration from Cyttorak himself, making this fight a stalemate. The op said fight to the death (not ko).

Now we can dismiss the showing where Juggs regenerates from a skeleton (he is still able to talk and function) if you believe that's an outlier.
Is there other evidence that a fully powered Juggs can die from physical damage?

Originally posted by h1a8
I'm not arguing the notion that Juggs can't get hurt or KOed. I don't believe Juggs can even phase WBH. My view is that any damage Juggs face will result in regeneration from Cyttorak himself, making this fight a stalemate. The op said fight to the death (not ko).

Now we can dismiss the showing where Juggs regenerates from a skeleton (he is still able to talk and function) if you believe that's an outlier.
Is there other evidence that a fully powered Juggs can die from physical damage?

Id argue that the efficacy of Juggs enchantment in that instance is the outlier not the norm. The question isnt whether he can die from physical damage since if his enchantment is overcome then yes he will die. The more pertinent question is whether given the history of his unstoppability/invulnerability enchantment, WBH (a being astronomically stronger) is or isnt likely to be able to overcome it in a prolonged one sided beatdown.

Now, given that this enchantment has been overcome to varying degrees on multiple occasions (not the point of death, but to the point of ko, physical harm and momentum being halted/reversed) by forces that are ultimately far far less than the total cumulative force output that he is likely to endure in this fight, Im inclined to believe that he will eventually die.

The burden of proof lay with those claiming that his enchantment would essentially hold up in perpetuity from being hit directly with blows whose residual shockwaves disntegrated top tier level beings (heavily amped Fing Fang, Arcmcheddon etc) from miles away. Even the skeleton incident against D'Spayre (which isnt the norm) doesnt come close to establishing that.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Id argue that the efficacy of Juggs enchantment in that instance is the outlier not the norm. The question isnt whether he can die from physical damage since if his enchantment is overcome then yes he will die. The more pertinent question is whether given the history of his unstoppability/invulnerability enchantment, WBH (a being astronomically stronger) is or isnt likely to be able to overcome it in a prolonged one sided beatdown.

Now, given that this enchantment has been overcome to varying degrees on multiple occasions (not the point of death, but to the point of ko, physical harm and momentum being halted/reversed) by forces that are ultimately far far less than the total cumulative force output that he is likely to endure in this fight, Im inclined to believe that he will eventually die.

The burden of proof lay with those claiming that his enchantment would essentially hold up in perpetuity from being hit directly with blows whose residual shockwaves disntegrated top tier level beings (heavily amped Fing Fang, Arcmcheddon etc) from miles away. Even the skeleton incident against D'Spayre (which isnt the norm) doesnt come close to establishing that.


The instances you mentioned are circumstantial and beyond hulls ability to replicate..

What are the feats of archmaggeddon, fing fang and wendigo invulnerabulity?

Armacheddons race can get killed with a blade!!!

That is like human like invulnerability then amped 100 times is like nothing to call this d listers top tiers

I won't get into the debate but...

Just saying!

Originally posted by Sin I AM
The instances you mentioned are circumstantial and beyond hulls ability to replicate..

WWH straight up stopped him, War Hulk stopped him while amped by celestial tech but there was no indication that it was anything other than strength used. Further there are many many more times than Juggernaut has been hurt. Many of which are easily replicable and exceedable by WBH as seen below

Note that Even 8th day juggy was harmed by "pressure points" used by Conquest and punches from Stonecutter.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
All of these feats are by attacks at or below Thanos level (except Phoenix). The strongest attack Juggernaut has taken and tanked is the Godblast. He got KO'ed by the Phoenix, he seemed to get damaged bad by a casual eyeblast from the Stranger when it split, and Onslaught made him look like a normal human. After that no attack even comes close to Thanos level. But let's look at some of the times he's been injured. I will state when he's weakened, but other than that, full power. And this is ignoring New Warriors where some controversy arises.
With that said, let's see if Thanos has the mustard to hurt or knock Juggernaut out.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MenUnlimited40-39.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MenUnlimited40-40.jpg

^
Proof that was Classic
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MenUnlimited40-33.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MenForever5p18.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN322_08b.jpg

^
Proof it was physical
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN322_15a.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN218_14b.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN217_14b.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN217_15b.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN194_13a.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN194_14b.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN102_13b.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Men054p20.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force03-20.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force004-0708.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force004-09.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/WWH_Xmen_3_0025.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/VenomTheMadness03_17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/VenomTheMadness03_18.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/TASM629012.jpg

^
Showing he was physically damaged and likely physically knocked out by this:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/TASM627023.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Avengers_v3_024_17a.jpg

He stated in the next page he wasn't hurt by this, but we can clearly see him screaming in pain so...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Deadpool_LS2_02_pg18.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/DrStrange-18213.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/DrStrange-18214-15.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/GenerationX061-05.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk404_10b.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk404_14a.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/sm16-17.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Spider-Woman038-10.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Spider-Woman038-19.jpg

Teleportation:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force004-18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force_005-01.jpg

Eighth Day Juggernaut:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/jug_8th_day_p30.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/jug_8th_day_p33.jpg





Here's his shield being overloaded and him being stunned.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN033_13b.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN033_14a.jpg




I'll file these next couple under the "maybe/probably hurt" folder, as well as combine it with talking about how hard Juggernaut was hit section:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MenForever6p02and03.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN217_17a.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN194_11a.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-MEN183_15b.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/X-Force03-19.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderstrike02-16.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderstrike02-17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderstrike02-18.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderstrike02-19.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Deadpool_LS2_02_pg22.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk403_17a.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk457_11b.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk457_12a.jpg

^
He laid there for 5 pages
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Hulk457_16a.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thor_vol2-519-017-21.jpg




And here's two things that indicate a limit to his stamina.
"Last ounce of strength"
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/jug_8th_day_p36.jpg

"I can feel him weakening" (also can be filed under probably hurt considering he was weakening under it and was hurt previously by a lesser shot)
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/GenerationX061-06.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/GenerationX061-07.jpg




Phoenix:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/phoenixresurrectionrevelations-1_06-07.jpg

He was weaker there admittedly (which will flow into the next thing), but not by much. His durability at the time:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/AllNewExilesv1001p18.jpg




And about how powerful the enchantment was at the time he became Kuurth. Well, let's hear the level it was on:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb14510.jpg

And his durability that would have simply stacked with Kuurth's.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb14623.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb14624.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb14823.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb14905.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15023.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15024.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15029.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15031.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15032.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15219.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15311.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15315.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15316.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15318.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/tb15319.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderbolts156014.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderbolts157005.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Thunderbolts157006.jpg




Here's Kuurth and a stronger dose of Juggernaut than Thunderbolts Juggy got (coupled with Colossus) hurting each other immensely. Which we assume his durability will stack with the above T-Bolts Juggy.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Uncanny_X-Men_543_0010.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Uncanny_X-Men_543_0012.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Uncanny_X-Men_543_0013.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Uncanny_X-Men_543_0014.jpg

Kuurth was likely to die in the explosion:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/Uncanny_X-Men_543_0015.jpg

Amped Wolverine:
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/FearItself7026.jpg




Now here's FP Kuurth getting hurt by Magneto crushing his helmet and seemingly getting hurt by having his blood boiled.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/UCX_0016.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/juggernaut/UXM_542_015.jpg



Thanos wins. "lowball" but needed. At the very least it shows Thanos can damage Juggernaut, unlike the zero high feats that say he can't.

Originally posted by Naija boy
WWH straight up stopped him, War Hulk stopped him while amped by celestial tech but there was no indication that it was anything other than strength used. Further there are many many more times than Juggernaut has been hurt. Many of which are easily replicable and exceedable by WBH as seen below

Note that Even 8th day juggy was harmed by "pressure points" used by Conquest and punches from Stonecutter.

Wwh did not stop him. He used his momentum against him and bfred him

There's no indication that the celestial tech DIDNT amp his strength.

And i wasnt aware Hulk is capable of pressure points.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Wwh did not stop him. He used his momentum against him and bfred him

There's no indication that the celestial tech DIDNT amp his strength.

And i wasnt aware Hulk is capable of pressure points.

WWH did stop him temporarily, but regardless of how you interpreted that scene there are simply too many instances of juggernaut being hurt/stopped/damaged by attacks that can be exceeded by WBH to ignore. As seen in the very long post compiled by Bran.

Yes i agree that the celestial tech amped his strength. Thats the whole point....that it was strength that was used to stop him. Strength that is far exceeded by WBH.

Moreoever lets not get silly, pressure points are a physical attack. If 8th day Juggernaut can be hurt by pressure points...ergo physical strikes, then he can be physically harmed. Moreover the point is moot as he was also harmed by stonecutters...non pressure point strikes as well....again easily replicable and exceedable by WBH.

This enchantment stuff really is an open and shut case.

Originally posted by Naija boy
WWH did stop him temporarily, but regardless of how you interpreted that scene there are simply too many instances of juggernaut being hurt/stopped/damaged by attacks that can be exceeded by WBH to ignore. As seen in the very long post compiled by Bran.

Yes i agree that the celestial tech amped his strength. Thats the whole point....that it was strength that was used to stop him. Strength that is far exceeded by WBH.

Moreoever lets not get silly, pressure points are a physical attack. If 8th day Juggernaut can be hurt by pressure points...ergo physical strikes, then he can be physically harmed. Moreover the point is moot as he was also harmed by stonecutters...non pressure point strikes as well....again easily replicable and exceedable by WBH.

This enchantment stuff really is an open and shut case.

Slowing his momentum and stopping him is two different things. If WWH had stopped him then ypur argument would be sound. U could say all day he overcame the enchantment bur he didnt.

Can you prove celestial tech used to funnel his power is less than what wbh can produce? And then again this is still celestial power which should be above elder god.

Pressure point is far more than physical. U make it soumd as if its a mere jab. A nerve strike is similar to super karate..hulk is not replicating that

After all, Black Panther (with no enhancements) took Cage down, when Proxima Midnight was unable to with her seismic punches.

WWH stopped Cain. Please continue.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Slowing his momentum and stopping him is two different things. If WWH had stopped him then ypur argument would be sound. U could say all day he overcame the enchantment bur he didnt.

Can you prove celestial tech used to funnel his power is less than what wbh can produce? And then again this is still celestial power which should be above elder god.

Pressure point is far more than physical. U make it soumd as if its a mere jab. A nerve strike is similar to super karate..hulk is not replicating that

The only thing the Celestial armor did was help Hulk control his power. Are you implying War Hulk is as powerful as WBH?

Originally posted by carver9
WWH stopped Cain. Please continue.

U gotta scan i missed of WWH stopping Cain because Id LOVE to see it.

Originally posted by carver9
The only thing the Celestial armor did was help Hulk control his power. Are you implying War Hulk is as powerful as WBH?

Do you have proof that the celestial armor help hulk control his powers?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
U gotta scan i missed of WWH stopping Cain because Id LOVE to see it.



Do you have proof that the celestial armor help hulk control his powers?

Heres what said about the tech. To my recollection, its the ONLY thing that was mentioned. More to do with controlling said energy.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/HAL10WEEN/celestialtechulk.png

Heres the Hulk and Juggernaut scene.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n277/magneto1166/World%20War%20Hulk%20X-Men%203/WWHulkX-Men3-15.jpg

http://s282.photobucket.com/user/Bontenou/media/WorldWarHulk-X-Men0317.jpg.html

I'm not seeing much of a move, are you?