Achilles Warkiller vs Gladiator

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red sabre
its achilles from DC Universe vs Gladiator who do you think will win

Q99
Ah, the two confidence based fighters head to head, eh? smile

Gladiator, baring some luck on Achilles' part or Gladiator having a low confidence day.

A good stab with the spear through the heart or such could kill Gladiator, but I don't think that's too likely. Gladiator's power and skill are pretty significant. He'll get some wounds but should get the win.

Endless Mike
Gladiator

Lord Feron
Glads, without too much difficulty.

red sabre
Originally posted by Lord Feron
Glads, without too much difficulty.

based on what? chilles fought wonder woman to a stalemate

Q99
Yea, it won't be easy. He's hard as heck to hit, his spear is nasty, and he has healing factor.

red sabre
i actually think achilles will beat gladiator.

red sabre
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/6/60216/1531049-outsiders_34_03_super.jpg

Endless Mike
Superman is a bit too aggressive there, kind of OOC

Cogito
Originally posted by Endless Mike
Superman is a bit too aggressive there, kind of OOC

http://www.comicvine.com/eradicator/29-5377/
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Eradicator_%28New_Earth%29

Q99
Yea, Eradicator, not Superman.

Endless Mike
Ah, that explains it

red sabre
gladiator got flight and force vision while achilles got the grace and athena spear, as far as strength and durability judging by feats i would say they are somewhere equel, actually i would give achilles same durability levels as marvel hercules, but again achilles doesnt have too many feats i am not sure to be honest but he is at least as durable and strong as gladiator.

Bentley
Achilles is very powerful, but I do think Glads has the better feats here. Remember that time Doomsday totally destroyed Achilles?

red sabre
Originally posted by Bentley
Achilles is very powerful, but I do think Glads has the better feats here. Remember that time Doomsday totally destroyed Achilles?

well thats doomsday after all, and achilles stood and took preety good shots from doomsday, i would put that doomsday easily above savage hulk and remember how savage hulk treated gladiator? of course ABC logic is not always right however its some indication at least.

the way achilles treated eradicator, fought wonder woman, fought geo force and basically was laughing after getting bashed by buildings and rocks like it has no effect on him while lifting buildings and smash geo force with them , i find this kind of durability to be closer to marvel hercules to be honest, i think gladiactor will overcome his grace just like wonder woman or geo force were able to do however the athena spear is the edge here, but even without the spear judging by both performance i actually see it as a very long fight with achilles TKO gladiator at the end, blow for blow almost always works against gladiator as against masterson thor, as against savage hulk, as against thor, as against supreme , gladiator lacks the durability to go blow for blow with the top dogs, achilles on the other hand impressed me more on that department, however its actually a closer one.

Bentley
Frankly, I don't see anyone Achilles has beaten to think he can beat Glads to pulp physically. Geo-Force he's goot, but he's still meta-level, Erradicator got punked again and again in that incarnation; Wonderwoman is good, but we shouldn't judge in a single battle.

It is true that Gladiator has been threated as a quintessential punching bag through his history, he broke Hyperion's neck and he punked Vulcan. I can see Achilles going down against an angry Savage Hulk or against mjolnir, those aren't really very bad feats when you consider the respective histories of those characters.

Q99
Originally posted by Bentley
Frankly, I don't see anyone Achilles has beaten to think he can beat Glads to pulp physically. Geo-Force he's goot, but he's still meta-level

Eh, with all his upgrades I'd say he's arguably low-herald, or at least close to it.

red sabre
Originally posted by Bentley
Frankly, I don't see anyone Achilles has beaten to think he can beat Glads to pulp physically. Geo-Force he's goot, but he's still meta-level, Erradicator got punked again and again in that incarnation; Wonderwoman is good, but we shouldn't judge in a single battle.

It is true that Gladiator has been threated as a quintessential punching bag through his history, he broke Hyperion's neck and he punked Vulcan. I can see Achilles going down against an angry Savage Hulk or against mjolnir, those aren't really very bad feats when you consider the respective histories of those characters.

actually geo force is in the herald level i would say low to mid herald actually, his strength and durability feats are above any meta by far.

eradicator while in that incarnation is still eradicator with same abilities and nothing is changed unless he got a downgrade which would be stated.

wonderwoman is good? wonder woman would beat the crap out of gladiator everyone knows that, achilles actually matched her and stalemated her.

gladiator gets beat up most of the times by top tiers and lower, i can also see achilles going down to those guys or not however i just stated that based on fights achilles has the better overall stats IMO, achilles impressed me more than gladiator to be honest, achilled stalemated diana, stalemated geo force, bfr eradicator with a strike so strong it tore his symbol and sent him flying, only thing against him is doomsday owning him but come on thats doomsday everybody gets smocked by him sooner or later.

Bentley
Originally posted by red sabre
actually geo force is in the herald level i would say low to mid herald actually, his strength and durability feats are above any meta by far.

I disagree, but low herald is a maybe. Consider that Magneto who is vastly more versatile and powerful than Geo-Force is the quintessential low-herald.

Originally posted by red sabre
eradicator while in that incarnation is still eradicator with same abilities and nothing is changed unless he got a downgrade which would be stated.

Beh, he sucked and died like a chump, even Super Boy was better against DD, and he was also better than Achilles while we are at it.

Originally posted by red sabre
wonderwoman is good? wonder woman would beat the crap out of gladiator everyone knows that, achilles actually matched her and stalemated her.


WW is obviously stronger than Gladiator, but Achilles stalemating her is one of his, if not his highest showing. Also WW can be working in less than her full-power in a random issue, Thor has been bested by lesser foes quite often but it doesn't mean I think Tutinax stomps Silver Surfer, characters can job to hype the newcomers.

Originally posted by red sabre
gladiator gets beat up most of the times by top tiers and lower, i can also see achilles going down to those guys or not however i just stated that based on fights achilles has the better overall stats IMO, achilles impressed me more than gladiator to be honest, achilled stalemated diana, stalemated geo force, bfr eradicator with a strike so strong it tore his symbol and sent him flying, only thing against him is doomsday owning him but come on thats doomsday everybody gets smocked by him sooner or later.

I agree that Achilles might beat Gladiator, but I also know for a fact that Kallark has superior strength feats -planet buster- and superior speed feats, I cannot probably ignore that either.

Galan007
Originally posted by Q99
Eh, with all his upgrades I'd say he's arguably low-herald, or at least close to it. Achilles didn't beat Geo, though. It was a complete stalemate. However, one-shotting Eradicator is insanely impressive. That is what makes me think Achilles (esp. with his weaponry) can do some heavy damage to Gladiator. I'd also like to mention that out of the entire Outsiders line-up, Achilles was the only one who was able to harm Doomsday in the slightest. Imo, that speaks volumes regarding where he stands on the power scale...

Ultimately, Glads probably wins...

abhilegend
Achilees was oneshotted by aquaman. Do the math. The eradicator in outsiders wasn't the original eradicator but a clone with the memories of original eradicator IIRC.

Bentley
Originally posted by Galan007
Achilles didn't beat Geo, though. It was a complete stalemate.

He had him dead on rights though, Geo was doing his best and Achilles was toying with him nearly during all the fight.

red sabre
Originally posted by Bentley
I disagree, but low herald is a maybe. Consider that Magneto who is vastly more versatile and powerful than Geo-Force is the quintessential low-herald.



Beh, he sucked and died like a chump, even Super Boy was better against DD, and he was also better than Achilles while we are at it.



WW is obviously stronger than Gladiator, but Achilles stalemating her is one of his, if not his highest showing. Also WW can be working in less than her full-power in a random issue, Thor has been bested by lesser foes quite often but it doesn't mean I think Tutinax stomps Silver Surfer, characters can job to hype the newcomers.



I agree that Achilles might beat Gladiator, but I also know for a fact that Kallark has superior strength feats -planet buster- and superior speed feats, I cannot probably ignore that either.

magneto could never survive the things geo force survived, geo force feats of strength durability and his terakinesis put his easily at the low herald category, i got the feeling you didnt read much with geo force.

superboy got his ass kicked like a step child, achilles at the very least landed a good shot that effected doomsday, achilles actually did better than superboy his problem was that he got too cocky and was talking trash while doomsday was beating on him.

it is achilles highest showing however how many showings does he got in the first place? his only bad showing is going down to doomsday like that, but then again he got feats of stalemating wonder woman, one shotting eradicator, and stalemating geo force, look at his fight with geo force he survived tons of earth and stones bashed into him, taking huge pieces of buildings and bach geo force with them give respect to both characters, no shame in such a display.

oh come on claiming wonder woman was working at less levels? i just hate that argument seriously, when ever people dont like some showing they go "well he/she was holding back", it was never stated she held anything back and she didnt have any reason to hold back read the stroy and understand that under those circumstances she had no reason to not try her best, she couldnt even hit him at some point so she had to step up with her gear, i dont like back seat modding and i am not trying to do so but seriously i think there should be a rule stating when a feat is discussed if it wasnt stated that the character was holding back or working under 100% of their abilities people cant just go around saying " i think she wasnt serious she was just playing".

again with this planet buster thing? that looked more like an astroid, how large was that planet? can you tell me? or we see is gladiator busting some rock in space.

achilles has the better fighting speed feats simply by not only being able to match wonder woman but also the fact she had trouble at first hitting him that alone tells you about his speed, streangth feats? lifting buildings like toys and smashing geo force with them is a good strength feat dont you think? rip out chunks of ground the size of a building and smack geo force with that is also good strength feat, as i said he doesnt have many feats at all just several so we can only meassure his performance by the fights he had which are very very few.

and before you say well who said if he manage to fight wonder woman he is in the same speed department? deathstroke was able to fight flash is it the same? no its not the same, deathstroke by the majority showings of his career presented inferior speed than flash , deathstroke by clear majority of his feats has enhanced speed at best, flash on the other hand i dont need to explain you how fast the flash is right? good, now achilles doesnt have speed feats yet to contredict the fact he can match wonder woman and her level by speed, therefor his showing against her is valid indeed unless we get 100 more feats of him getting bested by far inferior characters and thats where you can debate it wasnt the normal for him, until then everything is valid.

red sabre
Originally posted by abhilegend
Achilees was oneshotted by aquaman..

ha? when did that happen?

red sabre
oh nevermind i found it , that wasnt achilles it was Aristides Demetrios also named olympian there he is


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympian_(comics)

the olympian achilles discussed in this thread is this guy

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Achilles_Warkiller_(New_Earth)

Q99
Wow, pretty low showing by Aristides in that case- his fleece is supposed to give him the strength of Hercules. Unless Aquaman removed it first.

Bentley
Originally posted by red sabre
magneto could never survive the things geo force survived, geo force feats of strength durability and his terakinesis put his easily at the low herald category, i got the feeling you didnt read much with geo force.

Magneto survived a blast from Galactus and can open wormholes. I don't really like Erick, though, so I don't want to get in an argument over his feats.


Originally posted by red sabre
superboy got his ass kicked like a step child, achilles at the very least landed a good shot that effected doomsday, achilles actually did better than superboy his problem was that he got too cocky and was talking trash while doomsday was beating on him..

I didn't get that impression from both fights, but I'll gladly go reread them later to confirm.


Originally posted by red sabre
it is achilles highest showing however how many showings does he got in the first place? his only bad showing is going down to doomsday like that, but then again he got feats of stalemating wonder woman, one shotting eradicator, and stalemating geo force, look at his fight with geo force he survived tons of earth and stones bashed into him, taking huge pieces of buildings and bach geo force with them give respect to both characters, no shame in such a display.

All of which could be replicated by a huge number of herald level characters, if not most of them. Achilles isn't weak, but barring his fight with Wonder Woman he has a very average record.

Originally posted by red sabre
oh come on claiming wonder woman was working at less levels? i just hate that argument seriously, when ever people dont like some showing they go "well he/she was holding back", it was never stated she held anything back and she didnt have any reason to hold back read the stroy and understand that under those circumstances she had no reason to not try her best, she couldnt even hit him at some point so she had to step up with her gear, i dont like back seat modding and i am not trying to do so but seriously i think there should be a rule stating when a feat is discussed if it wasnt stated that the character was holding back or working under 100% of their abilities people cant just go around saying " i think she wasnt serious she was just playing".

It would be helpful if you posted the scans from his fight or if you gave me the issue number. I love D-listers but no matter how you put it or which rules you want to apply it's always difficult to argue with just a handful of feats, and trust me, not assuming full-power is something that helps 95% of the time, and it's more worthwhile to throw the towel in that direction in the remaining 5% if only to get an unbiased judgement.

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