Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

.....There seems to be certain abilities that are difficult to oppose. One in particular being the almighty "speedblitz". Generally depicted as a flurry of strikes against a seemingly motionless opponent at speeds ranging from mach to ftl. The question posed here today is what power(s) can handily counter the blitz, coming from a herald leveler?

keep it under Trans boys....and the trolling to a minimum

Do the victims get reflexes to enable them to keep up?

If not, GL auto-shields.

Can't counter speed without having some form of speed too.

Even stopping time won't work because you need the reaction speed to engage such a power before your opponent slices your head off.

Powers like the Aquarian's Null Energy Shield are effective

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Do the victims get reflexes to enable them to keep up?

If not, GL auto-shields.

Hmmm...let me give an example. Superman is pissed and out to put you down. You can choose any powerset under trans except speed to counter his initial blitz. What is most effective? Mind-rape, transmution, etc...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Hmmm...let me give an example. Superman is pissed and out to put you down. You can choose any powerset under trans except speed to counter his initial blitz. What is most effective? Mind-rape, transmution, etc...
absolute molecular intangibility.

that followed by being able to piss liquid kryptonite.

Intangibility

Intangibility is one I suppose but that would result in a stalemate. I was thinking a thought based attack would be more efficient

But I'd still need the reaction times, no?

Say I chose transmutation.

Superman throws a punch at my face. With a suitable reflex speed, I could transmute his arm into marshmallows.

Without it, before I can even realise that he's throwing a punch, my beautiful and oh so handsome face is smeared across his knuckles.

Unless its an aura field of some sort that is always on.

If I am able to react in time...I'd choose the powers of the Spot. I'd be unstoppable against a speed blitz, and can take Supes out.

Why did you open this?

At some point when a side is been proven wrong someone will start derailing the thread and get closed.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Hmmm...let me give an example. Superman is pissed and out to put you down. You can choose any powerset under trans except speed to counter his initial blitz. What is most effective? Mind-rape, transmution, etc...

Why does it always comes down to Superman? is like He is the measuring stick around here.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Why did you open this?

At some point when a side is been proven wrong someone will start derailing the thread and get closed.



Why does it always comes down to Superman? is like He is the measuring stick around here.


read the op and keep the trolling to a minimum. its a very good question IMO and not as silly as the thousand and one hulk threads spamming the site. You could always just ignore the thread.


And DS do you mean bfr?

Barring the reflexes to perceive their speed, you need a more exotic setup to beat a speed blitzer.

Sensory auto-shields + Sufficiently large AOE attacks. But, the AOE attacks themselves have to have speed equal to or greater than what the speed blitzer might be used to dealing with, otherwise they could simply outrun the AOE attack.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Intangibility is one I suppose but that would result in a stalemate. I was thinking a thought based attack would be more efficient
Thought based stuff should never work, unless the character is a speedster him/herself of some stripe.

Originally posted by janus77
Thought based stuff should never work, unless the character is a speedster him/herself of some stripe.


Debatable. Wouldn't said speedster have to speed up their thoughts in order to counter?

Originally posted by Sin I AM
read the op and keep the trolling to a minimum. its a very good question IMO and not as silly as the thousand and one hulk threads spamming the site. You could always just ignore the thread.


And DS do you mean bfr?

Ok this is as simple as this

If the blitzing character moves sub-sonic and you can react and move at mach 1 You will have no problem

If the blitzing character is moving at mach one and you can react at mach you have a CHANCE to counter

If the blitzing character is moving at nanoseconds or anything higher and you can react to microseconds, it means You are waaaaaaay times slower. So You are screwed there is nothing you can do as your brain will not be able to process in time the information required to mount a defense much less an attack.

Of course COMIC BATTLES always forget about this or characters don't use their potential full speed

Originally posted by Sin I AM
.....There seems to be certain abilities that are difficult to oppose. One in particular being the almighty "speedblitz". Generally depicted as a flurry of strikes against a seemingly motionless opponent at speeds ranging from mach to ftl. The question posed here today is what power(s) can handily counter the blitz, coming from a herald leveler?

keep it under Trans boys....and the trolling to a minimum


mmm


sneer

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Debatable. Wouldn't said speedster have to speed up their thoughts in order to counter?
No my point is that if you're going to use thought based attacks (say Xavier or Emma Frost type stuff) you need to have a target and then focus and 'fire' at that target.

Without FTL speed perceptions, your mind would not have fully formed an intention before your head had been cleaved from your shoulders.

Well, that's what seems most logical.

I suppose there are characters that think at FTL speeds yet for some reason cannot physically act at speeds approaching FTL.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Ok this is as simple as this

If the blitzing character moves sub-sonic and you can react and move at mach 1 You will have no problem

If the blitzing character is moving at mach one and you can react at mach you have a CHANCE to counter

If the blitzing character is moving at nanoseconds or anything higher and you can react to microseconds, it means You are waaaaaaay times slower. So You are screwed there is nothing you can do as your brain will not be able to process in time the information required to mount a defense much less an attack.

Of course COMIC BATTLES always forget about this.


I suppose but thought based attacks have been shown to affect speedsters unless the consciously sped up their thoughts. Which seems pis(y) to me since their minds have already been breached and all one would have to do is stop basic motor skills.

But I dont want this devolving into a speedblitz vs mindrape thread as there are other powers that IMO would be equally effective such as high end probability manip or uber durability/Regen and strength to match

with speedsters, durability aside, the only real question is who gets to strike first.

and ftl speedsters would always strike first (against non ftl opponents), so no mindrape possible.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Debatable. Wouldn't said speedster have to speed up their thoughts in order to counter?

It doesn't really work like that, even Superman, who it seems can turn up or turn down his perceptions (so a second doesn't feel like days or something, and he would be able to interact with normal people everyday without going mad from boredom), is still able to perform superspeed feats on a dime.

If someone shot a bullet at lois from 10 feet away, and clark was standing right next to her, if his perception speed was TRULY turned down to human level, then the bullet would have already hit Lois by the time his human level brain speed was turned up to be fast enough to react to the bullet.

Yet we know, by feats, Clark would have no problem stopping that bullet even if the gunman fired it from 10 feet away while Clark's back was turned, even if he was interacting with Lois like any human level perception speed entity would, just hundredths of a second before it was fired.

It seems to me, Superman is simply able to walk both lines. I chalk it up to psionics, somehow.

I'd take auto shieds and AoE attacks. Especially if its controlled by some type of AI like the worldmind.

Originally posted by dmills
I'd take auto shieds and AoE attacks. Especially if its controlled by some type of AI like the worldmind.

you've been ninja'd several minutes ago.

sneer

Originally posted by janus77
with speedsters, durability aside, the only real question is who gets to strike first.

and ftl speedsters would always strike first (against non ftl opponents), so no mindrape possible.

do you know of a particular instance of this? I can only recall the gorilla grodd/flash fight where this happened

Regen will depend on the speed in which the regen occurs.

High end prob manipulation depends on thought too if is based on an mental order.

Instinctively reflex will work too as long as you body can keep up

Ubber durability will depend also on the attacking side as to how durable and strong the attacker is compared to the defender.

But most mountable defenses or attacks will depend on thought and brain processing capabilities. Unless is instinctively reflex and that will depend in the end on what the body can do.

Durability + Strength advantage = Useless without the necessary speed.

Juggernaut cannot beat Barry "God" Allen whatsoever. He will be a statue to him forever.

Regen, also useless without the necessary perception speed to do something other than be a sitting duck.

Mindrape, also useless without the necessary perception speed.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
It doesn't really work like that, even Superman, who it seems can turn up or turn down his perceptions (so a second doesn't feel like days or something, and he would be able to interact with normal people everyday without going mad from boredom), is still able to perform superspeed feats on a dime.

If someone shot a bullet at lois from 10 feet away, and clark was standing right next to her, if his perception speed was TRULY turned down to human level, then the bullet would have already hit Lois by the time his human level brain speed was turned up to be fast enough to react to the bullet.

Yet we know, by feats, Clark would have no problem stopping that bullet even if the gunman fired it from 10 feet away while Clark's back was turned, even if he was interacting with Lois like any human level perception speed entity would, just hundredths of a second before it was fired.

It seems to me, Superman is simply able to walk both lines. I chalk it up to psionics, somehow.

In the Nova Infinite comic that was a large part of why he crash landed non Earth. He talked about how his brain processed things simultaneously at two different speeds. Slow speed so that even when moving at speeds fast enough to traverse entire parsecs in moments, things slowed to a crawl so that he could react, dodge etc,. And hyper speed so that the time didn't drag on like years.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Regen will depend on the speed in which the regen occurs.

High end prob manipulation depends on thought too if is based on an mental order.

Instinctively reflex will work too as long as you body can keep up

Ubber durability will depend also on the attacking side as to how durable and strong the attacker is compared to the defender.

But most mountable defenses or attacks will depend on thought and brain processing capabilities. Unless is instinctively reflex and that will depend in the end on what the body can do.


I gotta disagree. that's y I said high regen/durability+ strength. As long as the defender is able to tank the initial assault generally as depicted in comics they are able to respond.

High end probability/luck powers are generally always "on" similar to auto shields. As long as a defense is attempted speed seems inconsequential as the powers is usually subconsciously driven and dont require active thought

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I gotta disagree. that's y I said high regen/durability+ strength. As long as the defender is able to tank the initial assault generally as depicted in comics they are able to respond.

This isn't a comic. Comics, as a rule, are supposed to be stupid.

Classic Juggernaut can not beat Barry Allen whatsoever in a forum fight, oh he'll tank the initial attack, hell, he'll tank the the 10 trillionth attack. But he will not be able to do anything about it.

Originally posted by dmills
In the Nova Infinite comic that was a large part of why he crash landed non Earth. He talked about how his brain processed things simultaneously at two different speeds. Slow speed so that even when moving at speeds fast enough to traverse entire parsecs in moments, things slowed to a crawl so that he could react, dodge etc,. And hyper speed so that the time didn't drag on like years.

Yep.

I believe one eye worked at normal speeds and the other at superspeeds, right?

^^^ Something like that. I got a kick out of that Mark Waid interview contrasting the vast difference in speed when writing quicksilver and then writing someone like Nova lol.

Also, massive kinetic energy absorption would be good.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
I gotta disagree. that's y I said high regen/durability+ strength. As long as the defender is able to tank the initial assault generally as depicted in comics they are able to respond.

High end probability/luck powers are generally always "on" similar to auto shields. As long as a defense is attempted speed seems inconsequential as the powers is usually subconsciously driven and dont require active thought

When I post theories in here I am not thinking "comic book fight"

I agree with high end prob if is always on, but if you need to think in order to activate it, then no.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
This isn't a comic. Comics, as a rule, are supposed to be stupid.

Classic Juggernaut can not beat Barry Allen whatsoever in a forum fight, oh he'll tank the initial attack, hell, he'll tank the the 10 trillionth attack. But he will not be able to do anything about it.


Meh Barry at that level isn't exactly hignh herald now is he, plus using that argument noone under Trans could counter a blitzer which is absurd

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Meh Barry at that level isn't exactly hignh herald now is he, plus using that argument noone under Trans could counter a blitzer which is absurd

A peak form Barry Allen is ridiculously above any "high herald's" ability to defeat.

The Speed Force is no joke, and Flashpoint was the cause of DC's entire reboot anyway.

Unless Odin's cosmic awareness is ridiculously up to snuff, he's not beating Barry Allen either.

Oh yes, actually, Sebastian Shaw type powers would be awesome. Something innate.

And no, not BFR. I meant he threw a punch, it goes into a portal, then another portal opens next to his head and he knocks himself out.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
A peak form Barry Allen is ridiculously above any "high herald's" ability to defeat.

The Speed Force is no joke, and Flashpoint was the cause of DC's entire reboot anyway.

Unless Odin's cosmic awareness is ridiculously up to snuff, he's not beating Barry Allen either.


That's why the op said keep it under Trans. I don't particularly care for the depiction of the flashes prior to the reboot

A "Why you hitting yourself" spell engaged precognitively.

Originally posted by Mindship
A "Why you hitting yourself" spell engaged precognitively.

Has strange exhibited precog? Dimensional dumping is always an easy win

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Has strange exhibited precog? I would think something as simple as precog would be well within his abilities.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Dimensional dumping is always an easy win Yeah, but that doesn't have the same comedic effect as a selfblitz.

Originally posted by janus77
with speedsters, durability aside, the only real question is who gets to strike first.

and ftl speedsters would always strike first (against non ftl opponents), so no mindrape possible.

FTL speedsters won't get 1st strike on Aquarian

Precog can be tricky though and I have always looked at it as prep

Originally posted by dmills
^^^ Something like that. I got a kick out of that Mark Waid interview contrasting the vast difference in speed when writing quicksilver and then writing someone like Nova lol.

Also, massive kinetic energy absorption would be good.

Mind linking me to the Mark Waid interview?

A mutant with an a mutation that allows for adaptability should work. If you completely eliminate PIS and CIS then IMO several mutants should be able to overcome, Sebastian Shaw and Strong Guy would eventually be able to counter. Shadow Cat should be able to, as should HP Doomsday and Nimrod fo shizzle. Cannon Ball should be able to if his shields are up.

Meh, precog is not all that, without the reflexes.

You could tell me that someone is going to fire a gun at me tomorrow, at 12:36pm, at exactly 20 seconds past the minute. Doesn't mean that I'd be able to dodge the bullet.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
It doesn't really work like that, even Superman, who it seems can turn up or turn down his perceptions (so a second doesn't feel like days or something, and he would be able to interact with normal people everyday without going mad from boredom), is still able to perform superspeed feats on a dime.

If someone shot a bullet at lois from 10 feet away, and clark was standing right next to her, if his perception speed was TRULY turned down to human level, then the bullet would have already hit Lois by the time his human level brain speed was turned up to be fast enough to react to the bullet.

Yet we know, by feats, Clark would have no problem stopping that bullet even if the gunman fired it from 10 feet away while Clark's back was turned, even if he was interacting with Lois like any human level perception speed entity would, just hundredths of a second before it was fired.

It seems to me, Superman is simply able to walk both lines. I chalk it up to psionics, somehow.

Like this...

http://f.imagehost.org/view/0847/03_3
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Imperial%20Guard/Kallark-ReacttoBullet.jpg

Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
FTL speedsters won't get 1st strike on Aquarian

You talking about from Atlas?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yep.

I believe one eye worked at normal speeds and the other at superspeeds, right?

This sequence is the one where he's coming in at re-entry speeds and kind of illustrates that. The copter appears to be frozen in place when he focuses. Then he dodges it.

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3577/1333568684.th.jpg

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Mind linking me to the Mark Waid interview?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=37983

Originally posted by dmills
(auto quote)

This sequence is the one where he's coming in at re-entry speeds and kind of illustrates that. The copter appears to be frozen in place when he focuses. Then he dodges it.

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3577/1333568684.th.jpg



http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=37983

Mills. Do you think Nova could have reacted to Supes and Flash when Flash was in the Diner eating pie?

Originally posted by dmills
This sequence is the one where he's coming in at re-entry speeds and kind of illustrates that. The copter appears to be frozen in place when he focuses. Then he dodges it.

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3577/1333568684.th.jpg



http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=37983

New Teen Nova speed blitzes Hulk 10/10 in a forum fight then.

Prove me wrong.

Auto Shields.
Or a field of influence that negates energy all together. Light Hawk Wings, or Dispel Bound.
Time Manipulators like Zoom or Time Sink. Their existence transcend the fabric of time.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
New Teen Nova speed blitzes Hulk 10/10 in a forum fight then.

Prove me wrong.



What in the hell?

Originally posted by carver9
Mills. Do you think Nova could have reacted to Supes and Flash when Flash was in the Diner eating pie?

Of course.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
New Teen Nova speed blitzes Hulk 10/10 in a forum fight then.

Prove me wrong.

There are actually a number of options, just not very common ones.

Defense:
vast durability advantage
auto-shields
an appropriate nullification/absorption power
default intangibility (like a ghost)
a "hydra" power ("destroy one and two pop up" sort of thing)
reality warping field
ability to fight without a literal body (Iceman becoming water particles and such)
a logia devil fruit power (from One Piece)*

Offense:
AOE
auto-hit (like most spells)*
a fast weapon (like Mjolnir)
Telepathy



* my choice

Originally posted by Sin I AM
.....There seems to be certain abilities that are difficult to oppose. One in particular being the almighty "speedblitz". Generally depicted as a flurry of strikes against a seemingly motionless opponent at speeds ranging from mach to ftl. The question posed here today is what power(s) can handily counter the blitz, coming from a herald leveler?

keep it under Trans boys....and the trolling to a minimum




Shields are problematic.

Originally posted by Badabing
mmm


sneer


What? seems like you have something to get off your chest

ninja vanish

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Intangibility is one I suppose but that would result in a stalemate. I was thinking a thought based attack would be more efficient Not necessarily, Vision has been using it offensively for years.

Originally posted by Brockalizer
Not necessarily, Vision has been using it offensively for years.


Thats density control though apples n oranges

Absorb kinetic energy which amps stats.

Originally posted by carver9
Like this...

http://f.imagehost.org/view/0847/03_3
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Imperial%20Guard/Kallark-ReacttoBullet.jpg

Wow, a bullet catching feat.

He only needs what... About a thousand more?

Originally posted by carver9
Like this...

http://f.imagehost.org/view/0847/03_3
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb6/Enteithegreat/Imperial%20Guard/Kallark-ReacttoBullet.jpg

Nah! more like this

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/SUPER%20SPEED/th_AC694FASTERTHANLIGHTTPU.jpg

This

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/SUPER%20SPEED/th_Supermanv2156CATCHINGSEVERALBULLETS.jpg

or this

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/SUPER%20SPEED/th_AC835FASTERNTHANASPEEDINGBULLET.jpg

spidey powers + HF...

Originally posted by Sin I AM
Thats density control though apples n oranges Actually we're both half right. It's a combination of using the two of them together.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Nah! more like this

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/SUPER%20SPEED/th_AC694FASTERTHANLIGHTTPU.jpg

This

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/SUPER%20SPEED/th_Supermanv2156CATCHINGSEVERALBULLETS.jpg

or this

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/DC%20COMICS/SUPERMAN/SUPER%20SPEED/th_AC835FASTERNTHANASPEEDINGBULLET.jpg

The scan I showed was better...shot from alientm tech. Even Gladiator said that wasn't a normal gun and it was high tech.

I win.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
.....There seems to be certain abilities that are difficult to oppose. One in particular being the almighty "speedblitz". Generally depicted as a flurry of strikes against a seemingly motionless opponent at speeds ranging from mach to ftl. The question posed here today is what power(s) can handily counter the blitz, coming from a herald leveler?

keep it under Trans boys....and the trolling to a minimum




Strong enough Autoshields, durability to withstand being rocked from the initial blows, ftl reflexes and mobility speed (to defend from behind or off angles), or intangibility (if already on or the character can activate it in time).

Originally posted by carver9
The scan I showed was better...shot from alientm tech. Even Gladiator said that wasn't a normal gun and it was high tech.

I win.

What? Please explain this to me.

How is Rigellian precision and Badoon lethality shoot from ACROSS the city when He has ALREADY noticed the sniper translates into a better showing?

When You have:

1.- Superman outracing a laser at point blank range
2.- A bullet shot at two feet away from the victim when Superman is the one across the city

Unless there is something I am not aware of, I don't see how is this a better showing.

I know that we all have to stick to our sects here but I actually like both showings. It just illustrates on an intimate level how these speedster types perceive things at a profoundly different level then most other comic book characters. Superman kicking ass across the city and arriving to intercept a bullet fired at Louis from close range. Glads having an internal monologue about whether or not he should save Vulcan even as the bullet is fired. Then deciding phuck it, I'll save him etc.

^Who is louis?

^^^ Smartphone "auto correct" lol.

Originally posted by BullwinkleMoose
Powers like the Aquarian's Null Energy Shield are effective

This. That thing nullifies EVERYTHING : EM Spectrum energy, gravity, kinetic energy, etc... I don't know about magic though. The scope of it is also incredible. It contained a being, Nth Man, that is capable of devouring UNIVERSES (it caused him to collapse in on himself).

Originally posted by zopzop
This. That thing nullifies EVERYTHING : EM Spectrum energy, gravity, kinetic energy, etc... I don't know about magic though. The scope of it is also incredible. It contained a being, Nth Man, that is capable of devouring UNIVERSES (it caused him to collapse in on himself).



What book

Originally posted by abhilegend
^Who is louis? Originally posted by dmills
^^^ Smartphone "auto correct" lol.
I thought that louis was a name.131