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Who wins here

not adam that's for sure....

Originally posted by leonidas
not adam that's for sure....

is this true invulnerablity adam or the watered down version?

is this the true invulnerability adam or the watered down version?

Originally posted by Stoic


that was my reaction to the thread as well.

Adam easily.

based on? and don't tell me because he was invulnerable.....

first, i'd love to see where that was actually stated (maybe at one point 70yrs ago it was mentioned, but pc kryptonians were also said to be invulnerable to all harm and seemed unaffected by pc superman's blows...but they weren't invulnerable either) but fact is kole had no problem ending pc adam with her matter manip powers and he's been easily bfr'd as well, not to mention how lightning has changed pc adam to normal. so, which feats show he has a chance of winning this at all, let alone easily?

he was weaker than pc superman (who is rarely used in the forum because of his wildly fluctuating abilities) and has been beaten by cm repeatedly. there was also that....alien? wizard? the one who got made adam look like marvel in that c-58 collector's edition which i seem to have erased from my hard drive. anyway, he easily took adam down. getting smacked around by supes and cm=/=his beating this trio at all either.

people say because he could match pc supes he was teh awesome!1! pc supes is a poor foil for anyone given the silly and inconsistent nature of his powers.

so, let's see the proof that adam takes these guys down.

Originally posted by leonidas
based on? and don't tell me because he was invulnerable.....

first, i'd love to see where that was actually stated (maybe at one point 70yrs ago it was mentioned, but pc kryptonians were also said to be invulnerable to all harm and seemed unaffected by pc superman's blows...but they weren't invulnerable either) but fact is kole had no problem ending pc adam with her matter manip powers and he's been easily bfr'd as well, not to mention how lightning has changed pc adam to normal. so, which feats show he has a chance of winning this at all, let alone easily?

he was weaker than pc superman (who is rarely used in the forum because of his wildly fluctuating abilities) and has been beaten by cm repeatedly. there was also that....alien? wizard? the one who got made adam look like marvel in that c-58 collector's edition which i seem to have erased from my hard drive. anyway, he easily took adam down. getting smacked around by supes and cm=/=his beating this trio at all either.

people say because he could match pc supes he was teh awesome!1! pc supes is a poor foil for anyone given the silly and inconsistent nature of his powers.

so, let's see the proof that adam takes these guys down.
PC marvels were truly invulnerable. Here is a guy named Mr. Invincible who was powered up by literally big bang itself punching cap and cap shrugging it off.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Pre crisis feats

Captain marvel vs Invincible Man
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_WorldsFinest257-52.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_WorldsFinest257-53.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_WorldsFinest257-54.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_WorldsFinest257-55.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_WorldsFinest257-58.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_WorldsFinest257-59.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_WorldsFinest257-60.jpg
That was PIS. Cap ignored several type of matter manipulation by sivana before. PC superman was more conistent than current superman. Almost every low showing floating on internet lacks context and people do not know that superman was heavily depowered in 1971 and was reduced to planet moving levels. Ibis had the same powers as shazam, so its not a low feat and none of these guys have lightning powers as standard power set. These guys lack the ability to harm him in any way or form.

^Rest of the fight Originally posted by abhilegend
Continued

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_WorldsFinest257-61.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_WorldsFinest257-62.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_WorldsFinest257-63.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_WorldsFinest257-64.jpg

IIRC PC BA was limited to the speed of light, what is to stop Surfer from opening a portal and BFRing him to the other side of the universe?

Originally posted by abhilegend
PC marvels were truly invulnerable. Here is a guy named Mr. Invincible who was powered up by literally big bang itself punching cap and cap shrugging it off.

That was PIS. Cap ignored several type of matter manipulation by sivana before. PC superman was more conistent than current superman. Almost every low showing floating on internet lacks context and people do not know that superman was heavily depowered in 1971 and was reduced to planet moving levels. Ibis had the same powers as shazam, so its not a low feat and none of these guys have lightning powers as standard power set. These guys lack the ability to harm him in any way or form.

l.o.l.

first the guy was just 'tapping' the power. how much he was drawing from that 'last mass of matter' lol is anyone's guess. and i mean cap DID hit him with force enough to drop a charging rhino. i can't believe that didn't finish him. that atomic punch DID look and sound cool though.

and not really. pc supes was all over the place. where did you get that he was depowered in 71 though? regardless, before that time he would struggle to hold up a city, but blow out stars. i've long contended pc supes should be banned on here. pc stuff is silly, and powers are plot driven. besides, it's REALLY of no relevance since even that 'depowered' superman was stronger than adam.

as a side note--NONE of what you said is of relevance anyway--everything you showed was based on marvel, not adam. be like using ultraman to make a case for superman. you can try and say they are equivalent but they aren't. you can also try and say kole transmuting him was pis, but i don't see why it would be. where has he resisted that type of matter manip before?

of course they can harm him. ss could transmute him far more easily than kole could. he could bfr him for 100/100 as well. glads and supes have far greater speed showings than adam does and could go h2h since pc supes--after he was reduced to planetary strength according to you--was stronger than he was.

again, pc kryptonians were supposed to be invulnerable too, but they weren't. at all. adam once took the combined blow of all the marvel's in his first appearance i think, but that was overshadowed by his near equality with marvel.

it cracks me up that people jizz when they see PC in the title and assume that" no one can beat the pc!!1!" bull. crap. adam (who is a great character and doesn't need this false portrayal) loses here and his rep as an unbeatable, completely invulnerable pc character is nonsense based on feats.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
IIRC PC BA was limited to the speed of light, what is to stop Surfer from opening a portal and BFRing him to the other side of the universe?

nothing.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
IIRC PC BA was limited to the speed of light, what is to stop Surfer from opening a portal and BFRing him to the other side of the universe?
He was FTL as to reach ROE you had to fly faster than light. As for BFR, he can use ROE to reach any point in time and space as it was the focal point of space and time.

Really because I remember a story where he was trapped 4000 light-years away and it took him 4000 years to get back to Earth

Originally posted by abhilegend
He was FTL as to reach ROE you had to fly faster than light. As for BFR, he can use ROE to reach any point in time and space as it was the focal point of space and time.

what?? first, how do you know it takes ftl to reach the rock?? secondly, shazam bfr'd adam for what? 5000 yrs or something? where have you ever seen him use the rock like a bus stop at all places in the multiverse?

Black Adam wins this. Sun dip supes surfer amps him and glads is a non factor. that may be a good fight. Other then that black adam dominates.

Originally posted by leonidas
l.o.l.

first the guy was just 'tapping' the power. how much he was drawing from that 'last mass of matter' lol is anyone's guess. and i mean cap DID hit him with force enough to drop a charging rhino. i can't believe that didn't finish him. that atomic punch DID look and sound cool though.

and not really. pc supes was all over the place. where did you get that he was depowered in 71 though? regardless, before that time he would struggle to hold up a city, but blow out stars. i've long contended pc supes should be banned on here. pc stuff is silly, and powers are plot driven. besides, it's REALLY of no relevance since even that 'depowered' superman was stronger than adam.

as a side note--NONE of what you said is of relevance anyway--everything you showed was based on marvel, not adam. be like using ultraman to make a case for superman. you can try and say they are equivalent but they aren't. you can also try and say kole transmuting him was pis, but i don't see why it would be. where has he resisted that type of matter manip before?

of course they can harm him. ss could transmute him far more easily than kole could. he could bfr him for 100/100 as well. glads and supes have far greater speed showings than adam does and could go h2h since pc supes--after he was reduced to planetary strength according to you--was stronger than he was.

again, pc kryptonians were supposed to be invulnerable too, but they weren't. at all. adam once took the combined blow of all the marvel's in his first appearance i think, but that was overshadowed by his near equality with marvel.

it cracks me up that people jizz when they see PC in the title and assume that" no one can beat the pc!!1!" bull. crap. adam (who is a great character and doesn't need this false portrayal) loses here and his rep as an unbeatable, completely invulnerable pc character is nonsense based on feats.
So you are speculating that he was tapping in less power because of what? No less silly then LT throwing a supernova as his "ultimate punishment". We know that he was much stronger than that. Yeah, he wasn't. Not more than today's characters. Take any character like superman tanking a sun eater exploding in 1992 and koed by a gas station in 1993. Except they had the same exact powers, the idea that egyptian gods gave adam his powers is post crisis. Read "kryptonite nevermore" storyline. And even then adam went blow for blow against superman and superman said that they are equally matched. By planetery I meant that he was able to push earth from several galaxies away in moments. You want PIS showings, how about adam armbarring surfer? He can reach any point in time and space using ROE. For a comparison the same "depowered" superman was several times more powerful than SBP and we know how does SBP ranks against top tiers of today. That isn't a fabricated stance. Adam was never physically harmed in his career and isn't going to be harmed here either. Tell me the way they are beating him, except your rant that "he isn't invulnerable" despite proofs to the contrary.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Really because I remember a story where he was trapped 4000 light-years away and it took him 4000 years to get back to Earth
He was banished to the farthest star in the universe which essentialy means the end of the universe since shazam couldn't harm him and it took him 5000 years to come back.Originally posted by leonidas
what?? first, how do you know it takes ftl to reach the rock?? secondly, shazam bfr'd adam for what? 5000 yrs or something? where have you ever seen him use the rock like a bus stop at all places in the multiverse?
Because its been stated many times. Shazam banished him from entering ROE when he sent him to the farthest star in the universe. But when he died in mortal form and was resurrected by Sivana, the spell was lifted. How do you think he encountered superman on Earth one? He's used it for time-travel too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So you are speculating that he was tapping in less power because of what? No less silly then LT throwing a supernova as his "ultimate punishment". We know that he was much stronger than that. Yeah, he wasn't. Not more than today's characters. Take any character like superman tanking a sun eater exploding in 1992 and koed by a gas station in 1993. Except they had the same exact powers, the idea that egyptian gods gave adam his powers is post crisis. Read "kryptonite nevermore" storyline. And even then adam went blow for blow against superman and superman said that they are equally matched. By planetery I meant that he was able to push earth from several galaxies away in moments. You want PIS showings, how about adam armbarring surfer? He can reach any point in time and space using ROE. For a comparison the same "depowered" superman was several times more powerful than SBP and we know how does SBP ranks against top tiers of today. That isn't a fabricated stance. Adam was never physically harmed in his career and isn't going to be harmed here either. Tell me the way they are beating him, except your rant that "he isn't invulnerable" despite proofs to the contrary.

"proofs to the contrary?" please, show all these proofs.

lt like any abstract uses an m-body. m-bodies can vary in the amount of power each possesses. perhaps that m-body didn't possess all of lt's powers. whatever. utterly irrelevant to the discussion anyway. as is....most of what you said.

adam and marvel's powers MAY have been the same, but marvel still beat him. superman was still stronger than he was. and moving planets across galaxies then struggling to lift the great pyramid. ridiculous extremes that far exceed in number and scope pis scenes of today. even the classic spidey/fl was partially explained by the author, as was bp's armbar--ss ALLOWED the armbar, as was shown on the next page because he wanted to hear bp out. mcduffie explained it in an interview somewhere as well. but again, not relevant in any way.....

so you never saw him use the rock as a bus stop i take it? he didn't use it when shazam bfr'd him easily enough....

not sure why you think pc supes>>>sbp. in some scenes maybe, in others, not at all. but that's how pc worked--power suited plot. prime was above the others but as was born out not that far above the likes of modern superman. but his defeats will likely be attributed as pis by you....

you are sorta talking out of your arse here. no reason at all to think a bfr wouldn't work 100/100. he has no speed feats that would indicate he could contend with the speed feats of modern day supes and glads. i'm absolutely in agreement that a blow that would drop a charging rhino probably wouldn't stop him but the infinite fallacy revolving around his invulnerablility is ridiculous. you think if he would have run into pc validus that invulnerability would have held up?

there is no reason at all to think ss couldn't simply transmute him aside from you saying the kole incident was pis and since he's really got no combat speed feats, seeing glads and supes use their own speed and power on him in a way that has never happened would truly test that overblown invulnerability as well. i'd love to see him even hitting someone moving at the speed modern characters do. some will simply assume they can do everything better. but that is contrary to what the forum is about. if people want to use the silly uber prtrayals to show how great they are, then the dearth of feats in certain areas and the lesser feats of those same characters are also fair game.

Originally posted by zeel
Black Adam wins this. Sun dip supes surfer amps him and glads is a non factor. that may be a good fight. Other then that black adam dominates.

based on what proof again?

Originally posted by abhilegend
He was banished to the farthest star in the universe which essentialy means the end of the universe since shazam couldn't harm him and it took him 5000 years to come back.
Because its been stated many times. Shazam banished him from entering ROE when he sent him to the farthest star in the universe. But when he died in mortal form and was resurrected by Sivana, the spell was lifted. How do you think he encountered superman on Earth one? He's used it for time-travel too.

context? you saying he can simply stop off at the rock and travel anywhere and anytime he wants? not buying that as anywhere CLOSE to a standard manoeuver for adam.

Originally posted by leonidas
context? you saying he can simply stop off at the rock and travel anywhere and anytime he wants? not buying that as anywhere CLOSE to a standard manoeuver for adam.
Context for what? Neither is surfer BFRing. He can and has done it many times.

context for his using the rock. lots of times? pc? or even current, whatever. when? ss uses bfr when it's necessary--which it probably wouldn't be here.

Originally posted by leonidas
"proofs to the contrary?" please, show all these proofs.

lt like any abstract uses an m-body. m-bodies can vary in the amount of power each possesses. perhaps that m-body didn't possess all of lt's powers. whatever. utterly irrelevant to the discussion anyway. as is....most of what you said.

adam and marvel's powers MAY have been the same, but marvel still beat him. superman was still stronger than he was. and moving planets across galaxies then struggling to lift the great pyramid. ridiculous extremes that far exceed in number and scope pis scenes of today. even the classic spidey/fl was partially explained by the author, as was bp's armbar--ss ALLOWED the armbar, as was shown on the next page because he wanted to hear bp out. mcduffie explained it in an interview somewhere as well. but again, not relevant in any way.....

so you never saw him use the rock as a bus stop i take it? he didn't use it when shazam bfr'd him easily enough....

not sure why you think pc supes>>>sbp. in some scenes maybe, in others, not at all. but that's how pc worked--power suited plot. prime was above the others but as was born out not that far above the likes of modern superman. but his defeats will likely be attributed as pis by you....

you are sorta talking out of your arse here. no reason at all to think a bfr wouldn't work 100/100. he has no speed feats that would indicate he could contend with the speed feats of modern day supes and glads. i'm absolutely in agreement that a blow that would drop a charging rhino probably wouldn't stop him but the infinite fallacy revolving around his invulnerablility is ridiculous. you think if he would have run into pc validus that invulnerability would have held up?

there is no reason at all to think ss couldn't simply transmute him aside from you saying the kole incident was pis and since he's really got no combat speed feats, seeing glads and supes use their own speed and power on him in a way that has never happened would truly test that overblown invulnerability as well. i'd love to see him even hitting someone moving at the speed modern characters do. some will simply assume they can do everything better. but that is contrary to what the forum is about. if people want to use the silly uber prtrayals to show how great they are, then the dearth of feats in certain areas and the lesser feats of those same characters are also fair game.
Mr. Invincible was an android used by mr. Mind and was exactly as powerful as the scan says your speculations notwithstanding. Marvel didn't beat him directly, earth one where that issue of DCP happened slowly sapped marvels' power like a red sun did to superman. That's why he was completely unaffected to cap's blows in Earth-S. Can you show me this instance of superman struggling to lift a pyramid? I remember that was because red sun rays from a distant sun reached earth and weakened him. I did see him using ROE to reach earth one and time travelling. He would just return using ROE. Except he was FTL and flew across the universe. Cap has his strength feats too like moving a planet bigger than earth across several solar system and he couldn't harm him at all in Earth-S. Yeah, on earth-s it would. That's why they made a loophole that outside their own universe marvels start getting weaker. Except that its PIS or he wasn't on Earth-S when that transmutation happened and he was FTL too. You have a low showing for adam? Pray tell us about it.

Originally posted by leonidas
context for his using the rock. lots of times? pc? or even current, whatever. when? ss uses bfr when it's necessary--which it probably wouldn't be here.
First time he used it to go to earth one in the guise of cap and attacked superman. Second time to escape cap and landed in past and again to attack the batsons before billy was born. He's used it two times more. Yeah, because adam is going to kill him very soon.

BA wins.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mr. Invincible was an android used by mr. Mind and was exactly as powerful as the scan says your speculations notwithstanding. Marvel didn't beat him directly, earth one where that issue of DCP happened slowly sapped marvels' power like a red sun did to superman. That's why he was completely unaffected to cap's blows in Earth-S. Can you show me this instance of superman struggling to lift a pyramid? I remember that was because red sun rays from a distant sun reached earth and weakened him. I did see him using ROE to reach earth one and time travelling. He would just return using ROE. Except he was FTL and flew across the universe. Cap has his strength feats too like moving a planet bigger than earth across several solar system and he couldn't harm him at all in Earth-S. Yeah, on earth-s it would. That's why they made a loophole that outside their own universe marvels start getting weaker. Except that its PIS or he wasn't on Earth-S when that transmutation happened and he was FTL too. You have a low showing for adam? Pray tell us about it.

soooo....still nothing for adam as regards feats? no scan that says he is 'invulnerable' to all harm?

and I'M speculating? really? you said he was powered by THE BIG BANG! that's actually carver-esque in it's falsity. he TAPPED (an unspecified amount of power) from a 'mass of matter' lol that seemed powerful. that's it. nothing more nothing less.

well, according to you a low showing is the kole showing but i don't see it as pis at all. ibis handled him effortlessly even though shazam was forced to bfr him somehow. supes was stronger than him. supes and marvel smacked him around. maybe not a low showing there, but had he not fled they would have taken him out for sure--so much for his being invulnerable.....

anyhow, my point stands--there is no reason--certainly nothing on panel--that would suggest the trio can't beat him in this fight. true, he is likely stronger than glads and supes, but their speed combat feats would make up for that. couple in ss's versatility and i don't see adam having a chance here. the dearth of feats he has would be more than enough to cripple most characters in the forum, but because he is "pc" he is automatically assumed to be uber. that is blatantly false.

Originally posted by abhilegend
First time he used it to go to earth one in the guise of cap and attacked superman. Second time to escape cap and landed in past and again to attack the batsons before billy was born. He's used it two times more. Yeah, because adam is going to kill him very soon.

be cool to see that..... and ss transmutes him before he ever gets the chance to do anything.

Cap, Mary, and Freddy were all whaling on Adam and he just laughed it off.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/27722/702561-blackadam_b_large.jpg

There are more pics, but he tanked THREE PC bricks. Marvel was strong enough to toss around planets at light speed, survive being in infinity, and move ftl to get into the ROE.

ADAM wins.

lol

yeah, i didn't bring that one up already..... actually, with all the crying about pis in this thread, i think i'll call THAT pis. show the scans of a depowered pc superman and marvel slapping him around why don't ya....? or the one where superman is shown to be stronger. or how about kole transmuting him? no? don't like those so they didn't happen? all pis cuz....they don't fit your preconceived notion of what a pc character should be? what about all the combat speed feats and transmutation resistant feats? wanna show those?

hrm. i stand corrected. adam clearly wins. i don't understand the infatuation with pc guys. the amount of evidence lacking here is laughable and would condemn any non-pc character. if the proof is out there SHOW IT! i'll happily concede, as i've done in the past when proven wrong. but if you're not going to SHOW something, stop telling me how awesome he is, and stop perpetuating this ludicrous myth that he is 'teh invulnerable!!!1!" infinite fallacy for the fail.

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't understand the infatuation with pc guys.

Me either.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol

yeah, i didn't bring that one up already..... actually, with all the crying about pis in this thread, i think i'll call THAT pis. show the scans of a depowered pc superman and marvel slapping him around why don't ya....? or the one where superman is shown to be stronger. or how about kole transmuting him? no? don't like those so they didn't happen? all pis cuz....they don't fit your preconceived notion of what a pc character should be? what about all the combat speed feats and transmutation resistant feats? wanna show those?

hrm. i stand corrected. adam clearly wins. i don't understand the infatuation with pc guys. the amount of evidence lacking here is laughable and would condemn any non-pc character. if the proof is out there SHOW IT! i'll happily concede, as i've done in the past when proven wrong. but if you're not going to SHOW something, stop telling me how awesome he is, and stop perpetuating this ludicrous myth that he is 'teh invulnerable!!!1!" infinite fallacy for the fail.

Feats show that he has true invulnerability. I mean SHAZAM did say he couldn't affect Adam. And are the 3 here more powerful than SHAZAM? Didn't think so.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Me either.

i swear, i thought it was just me. i seem to have gone all 'rant-y' but damn, that kind of perpetuated nonsense is ludicrous. people come here to get info--ACCURATE info.

we are men of action--lies do not become us.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Feats show that he has true invulnerability. I mean SHAZAM did say he couldn't affect Adam. And are the 3 here more powerful than SHAZAM? Didn't think so.

except he did--he bfr'd him.

so, pc supes+marvel>>shazam? cuz they handled him easily. depowered supes>adam, therefore supes>>>shazam? kole CLEARLY>>>>shazam.

well thought out logic. way to choose a SINGLE feat and apply it across the board. anyway, i got 3 feats to your one. guess what that makes YOUR single feat....?

oh, and true invulnerability--what does that mean exactly again? and where does it end? how about validus? darkseid's omega effect? he should have simply tooled the anti-monitor himself apparently......

ludicrous.

So, when has PC Adam been harmed?

Originally posted by leonidas
except he did--he bfr'd him.

so, pc supes+marvel>>shazam? cuz they handled him easily. depowered supes>adam, therefore supes>>>shazam? kole CLEARLY>>>>shazam.

well thought out logic. way to choose a SINGLE feat and apply it across the board. anyway, i got 3 feats to your one. guess what that makes YOUR single feat....?

Through force and magic. BFR was his only option. IF Surfer does that, then he can win. Other than that, he can't. Stop crying about it.

And we have stated more than one feat. Deal.

Originally posted by leonidas
i swear, i thought it was just me. i seem to have gone all 'rant-y' but damn, that kind of perpetuated nonsense is ludicrous. people come here to get info--ACCURATE info.

we are men of action--lies do not become us.

The thing is, anyone who calls the Pre-Crisis feats or era under suspect get accused of being biased against DC or whatever and that's not really fair or true. And it doesn't make sense to write off every absurd high feat a PC character does as "the norm" but then disregard everything else as PIS. Hell, if we're honest, a lot of those high end feats are blatantly PIS. Like you said, the powers or scope of them suited the plot, which, last time I checked, was essentially the definition of plot induced stupidity.

So, is anyone going to post feats of Black Adam being harmed by force or through energy projection? Which is what the 3 above mainly use?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
So, when has PC Adam been harmed?

i just told you--supes and cm were working him--they HARMED him. they would have ko'd him had he kept on fighting.

What do you think the bare minimum level of power needed to harm PC Black Adam even constitutes as?

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Through force and magic. BFR was his only option. IF Surfer does that, then he can win. Other than that, he can't. Stop crying about it.

And we have stated more than one feat. Deal.

lol

really? care to recap for me all the feats that were displayed for adam? go ahead. i'll wait.....

Cap and Superman are above the 3 above, anyway. Plus DC neutered the Marvel family once they got a hold of them from Fawcettt. Which is why I asked if we are to use their true invulnerability self or the watered down selves.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
There are more pics, but he tanked THREE PC bricks. Marvel was strong enough to toss around planets at light speed, survive being in infinity, and move ftl to get into the ROE.

ADAM wins.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Cap and Superman are above the 3 above, anyway. Plus DC neutered the Marvel family once they got a hold of them from Fawcettt. Which is why I asked if we are to use their true invulnerability self or the watered down selves.

Well, I'd imagine that "Pre-Crisis Black Adam" directly and deliberately references the Black Adam published by DC comics prior to COIE, not the Fawcett era Black Adam, who had no such crisis to begin with.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
So, is anyone going to post feats of Black Adam being harmed by force or through energy projection? Which is what the 3 above mainly use?



seriously.



supes and adam mostly use energy projection? too bad superman is in this since he knows adam and marvel. all he needs to do is tell ss to use lightning. fight over.

care to SHOW adam tanking energy blasts that can destroy planets? there are likely NO examples of that, so neither of us can show it. difference is, you auto assume he can take ANYTHING!!!!11!

care to show him resisting matter manip? how about some combat speed feats that would make me think he could even TOUCH glads and supes? show ANYTHING aside from an 80yr scan of his first appearance that you have used to make your ENTIRE case.....

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, I'd imagine that "Pre-Crisis Black Adam" directly and deliberately references the Black Adam published by DC comics prior to COIE, not the Fawcett era Black Adam, who had no such crisis to begin with.

PC Adam still had his invulnerability from the start, until DC watered him down a bit, but being harmed by BOTH Billy and superman is nothing to sneeze at.

Adam also once gathered all the lightning in the world as a weapon as well.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, I'd imagine that "Pre-Crisis Black Adam" directly and deliberately references the Black Adam published by DC comics prior to COIE, not the Fawcett era Black Adam, who had no such crisis to begin with.

pretty sure that is how it was meant. the other adam had only that single appearance i think.... if it's that PARTICULAR version of adam that is being used, i withdraw my posts. there simply isn't enough info to go on with that character. and it's so old and silly that it is stupid to use that character anyway.

Originally posted by leonidas
soooo....still nothing for adam as regards feats? no scan that says he is 'invulnerable' to all harm?

and I'M speculating? really? you said he was powered by THE BIG BANG! that's actually carver-esque in it's falsity. he TAPPED (an unspecified amount of power) from a 'mass of matter' lol that seemed powerful. that's it. nothing more nothing less.

well, according to you a low showing is the kole showing but i don't see it as pis at all. ibis handled him effortlessly even though shazam was forced to bfr him somehow. supes was stronger than him. supes and marvel smacked him around. maybe not a low showing there, but had he not fled they would have taken him out for sureso much for his being invulnerable.....

anyhow, my point stands--there is no reason--certainly nothing on panel--that would suggest the trio can't beat him in this fight. true, he is likely stronger than glads and supes, but their speed combat feats would make up for that. couple in ss's versatility and i don't see adam having a chance here. the dearth of feats he has would be more than enough to cripple most characters in the forum, but because he is "pc" he is automatically assumed to be uber. that is blatantly false.



What proof do you have this team can take PC Black Adam? Glads is a punching bag, supes is bout on par with glads in all catagories, mabey a little greater. And all ss is going to be there for is weakness exploitation and energy attacks, in which adam is highly resistant to. And dont bring up the speed crap becasue they are not fast enough to speed blitz him good lord. I believe supes and glads are a bit faster not much but to think that the team is going to use their speed to combat ba is stupid. Thor on a regular basis defeats SS and is no speedster like adam.



Instead of asking us for proof why we think adam wins why dont you give us some proof showing us your team wins.

Originally posted by zeel
What proof do you have this team can take PC Black Adam? Glads is a punching bag, supes is bout on par with glads in all catagories, mabey a little greater. And all ss is going to be there for is weakness exploitation and energy attacks, in which adam is highly resistant to.



Instead of asking us for proof why we think adam wins why dont you give us some proff showing us your team wins.

lol

if you were paying attention i DID already. bfr worked on him. someone says it won't but no scans to support it. kole transmuted him. ss>>>>>>>kole. so, show him RESISTING transmutation or....adam loses.

i say supes and glads could also slug it out with him--especially with their nano-second combat feats. show adam's combat speed feats or....adam loses. hell, show him hitting someone who can move ftl.

no feats=adam loses. but feel free to show these feats that contradict my points. cuz, someone must be able to, right, for everyone to assume adam wins.....?

How many appearances does Adam have? Superman and Gladiator are non factors, anyway. None match up to PC Billy or Superman.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
What do you think the bare minimum level of power needed to harm PC Black Adam even constitutes as?

There's nothing.

He would literally have to be erased by the writer.

The Marvels, at least under Fawcett, were completely indestructible, said time and time again on panel and shown by feats.

Hell, they were so durable they could exist in a plane where no matter could exist at all--A realm called Infinity, existing outside of the universe. It was completely pitch black, and they were assumed to have died when they went into it, and yet, when we see them were completely fine and conscious.

PC Adam wins.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
There's nothing.

He would literally have to be erased by the writer.

The Marvels, at least under Fawcett, were completely indestructible, said time and time again on panel and shown by feats.

Hell, they were so durable they could exist in a plane where no matter could exist at all--A realm called Infinity, existing outside of the universe. It was completely pitch black, and they were assumed to have died when they went into it, and yet, when we see them were completely fine and conscious.

PC Adam wins.

and i could ask whose word do we have that 'nothing could exist in it'? what else did it destroy? but it would be useless. the sheer silliness of naming a void 'infinity' then saying it 'destroys everything in it' is enough. and that is how it SHOULD have been back then. we hold things--even comics--to far greater levels of scrutiny now though.

those golden age characters simply can not be compared to todays characters in any meaningful way.

i agree, characters today dont hurl planets at light speed, or build entire cities and planetoids at super speeds or survive being thown into voids. they are much more believable.

^LOL

that was actually pretty nicely played right there.....

in any event, you know what i was getting at in a far more general sense.

Originally posted by leonidas
soooo....still nothing for adam as regards feats? no scan that says he is 'invulnerable' to all harm?

Ok, but keep in mind that adam only had 10 appearances before crisis.

So just say that his original story where he tanked all three marvels' shots was still canon

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Shazam_28_06.jpg

Since shazam couldn't destroy him, he banished adam to the farthest star which essentially means the edge of the universe and adam returned after 5000 years.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/Shazam_28_12.jpg

Cap vs adam where they both couldn't harm each other. Also FTL travel and adam time-travels on his own using ROE

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/Shazam_28_21.jpg





Yeah he tapped the power of the energy that fuels everything in the universe and directly said that if Cap somehow destroyed him everything would perish and cap noted that people were listless and sun was also dim.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/WorldsFinest257-55.jpg

For ****'s sake, this is like arguing with quan. Even with proof that he was directly tapping an energy that fuels entire universe and everyone and everything seemed drained by it, we're arguing that he wasn't that powerful because cap who was always holding back then initially used a punch which could drop a rhino! I mean the guy tanked cap's best blow without even flinching and we know that cap was equal to superman in strength, who however you might want to lowball is still the strongest superhero by feats as you are trying to use here.



He was on earth-4

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_adamearth4.jpg

and according to shazam marvels lost their powers in any other universe as rapidly as superman lost under a red sun

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/SupermanVsShazam-64.jpg

So, no low showing at all.


By lightning, yes. By direct fight, no.

Superman is always stronger than everyone and again that was on earth one, so they were again weakened and that's how cap could feel adam's punches.

He was weakening and even then took superman's best punch. Not bad at all.


Yes, it is. Its called true invulnerability.

If they fight like CBR fashion and even then adam is fast enough to keep up with them.

Adam would most likely oneshot surfer here.


Not entirely true. He's only 10 appearances before crisis. That's not enough for someone like him to collect feats, but his level was shown time and time again that he was superman and cap's equal in power.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ok, but keep in mind that adam only had 10 appearances before crisis.

So just say that his original story where he tanked all three marvels' shots was still canon

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Shazam_28_06.jpg

Since shazam couldn't destroy him, he banished adam to the farthest star which essentially means the edge of the universe and adam returned after 5000 years.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/Shazam_28_12.jpg

Cap vs adam where they both couldn't harm each other. Also FTL travel and adam time-travels on his own using ROE

so you've said, but still not shown....and..... Yeah he tapped the power

so, how much did he 'tap'? any idea? obviously not the whole thing for reasons that are self-evident. so....how much? YOU said he was powered up by the BIG BANG, not me. if it's not true don't say it and people won't call you out on it.



he wasn't as strong as even your depowered superman, unfortunately. and where did i say this golden age gem mr invincible wasn't powerful....? he just wasn't powerful enough to hurt cm, though he really didn't try very hard.... and you keep comparing him to marvel--wasn't there an incident where marvel had to restore the earth's rotation while fighting the monster society maybe?? and cm actually needed mary's (who was close to cm himself in power) to do it?? that doesn't sound too great....




yeah, i've seen that. while i wonder at how true that was at the time of crisis (i suspect that particular weakness was no longer evident at all, for adam or marvel....) it doesn't help here since all the team would need to do is bfr him to some other universe, a fact superman would know.



too bad supes knows the weakness and tells ss to hit him with lightning and ends the battle without having to transmute him.....



sure, because he was weakening. so, how weak was he? so much speculation. so in his own universe he was what? the presence? utterly unbeatable by any being in existence? where do you draw the line at his invulnerability? infinite fallacy AGAIN, for teh failz.



true invulnerability, eh? called that where? so NO ONE could beat adam eh? nothing could harm him, ever. because of that single showing, you extrapolate his invulnerability to idiotic levels. i'm surprised you're pursuing this stupidity to the extent you are. i can only imagine how you'd be arguing AGAINST this in most cases.



lol

i'll remember that you said superman using his combat speed feats=him fighting in cbr fashion.

and based on feats, adam (who you said has hardly any) wouldn't even be able to SEE them, lol



lol



exactly. so the lengths you are going to to try and prove something that was never really tested--certainly not by the standards of things in comics today--is kind of laughable. and if anyone attempted to use the type of abc and tangential logic you've used in this thread AGAINST you, you'd be calling them morons from the tops of the tallest mountains.

you've admitted adam has no feats to really support any stance substantially. so everything you and other claim is based purely on abc logic and miniscule amounts of evidence. and even THAT doesn't matter in a thread where even if you don't think the team can just out-power him, they STILL know all his weaknesses!

while i appreciate your dedication (and i've no doubt you were scouring books for feats to support your casue) no matter how you look at it, you've taken a largely indefensible stance. adam loses here.

How does Adam lose when he just punches their heads off?

Well, I think Leo already explained how that would work.

Both Superman and Glads are toast. Surfer will be the last one standing, but he's too slow to win.

Didn't Adam get shattered during COIE after he got froze?

Anyway, Post Crisis Adam wins here. If PC is somehow more powerful, then he wins as well.

The amount of face and arm rips here is tremendous.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Both Superman and Glads are toast. Surfer will be the last one standing, but he's too slow to win.

How exactly is Surfer too slow?

1st surfer needs to get on his board and fly. Adam needs no board.

In all seriousness, I don't see Surfer winning without BFR.

Originally posted by leonidas
so you've said, but still not shown....and..... Yeah he tapped the power Enough to dim the sun and drain people of earth and most likely every star. What proof do you have that he wasn't tapping the whole power? Let me guess, another speculation?

Enough to dim the sun and drain people of earth and most likely entirety of it. Silver age isn't known for subtlety and yes its from silver age. You can read the scan, can't you? Guess the power to fuel everything in universe isn't the power of big bang. You aren't calling me on anything, you are just twisting straight words to suit your needs. You have any proof of the random things you're saying here?



None of these chumps are anywhere near that level of strength. Silver age and more specifically 1980. And who here is tapping the power to fuel entire universe to make a claim about hurting adam here? Did you even read the scans? He fought cap for hours and still cap didn't feel a thing. That was explained as to rotate the earth which was rotating in opposite direction, they both needed to push as to produce the torque. If you want feats then the golden age feats are canon for cap.




You speculating again? It was just recently referenced again in All star squadron. Who here can BFR someone to another universe? Post crisis superman doesn't know about PC adam .



Post crisis superman doesn't know anything about PC adam.



As weak as superman under a red sun. Yeah, you are doing a fine job so far. Strawman logic. These characters don't have the power to harm him. Make a separate thread about that.



Again strawmanning. He was unaffected by people above these three. Again the same logic. You are the one showing idiocy here. I never said that nobody can hurt him ever. You are the guy who is saying that these guys can harm him, so where's the proof?

I can't believe that you are lowballing someone so hard.



The way you think that he's going to use here, I'm absolutely against it.

He's FTL and crossed entire universe. He can certainly see them.



*cough*BRB two shotted his ass while weakened*cough*



We can gauge his power by his exact equal cap. Sure, just forgot armbar, frying pan, snakes, gas stations, bullets, kree blasters etc, etc. Yeah, because two completely identical characters in powers can't be used to gauge the general level of their powers. How awfull of me!

No, I didn't. I said that he doesn't have too many feats. Vastly different. At least I have some evidence, all you've got here is your wild imagination. Unless, I missed a superman/black adam meeting, I don't think they do.

Not really, I had all of these scans for awhile ago. You don't even have a stance. All you are doing here is to demand that I prove that adam survive LT's power which is not relevant here, saying that he would be hurt despite people more powerful than them tried and failed. Oh and post crisis superman knows about PC adam. No he doesn't.

That right there is pretty impressive. Both Superman and Gladiator don't have that type of power.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Enough to dim the sun and drain people of earth and most likely every star. What proof do you have that he wasn't tapping the whole power? Let me guess, another speculation?

well, if he were tapping the whole power, the universe would have no energy. or whatever nonsense this 'mass of matter' is shooting off. so, how much was he using again? certainly not the power of a big bang. stop saying things that aren't true or people will start confusing you with carter.



the question should be did YOU read your OWN scans. seriously. it specifically says AFTER the big bang formed all matter..... some 'mass of matter' becomes the soul of the universe or something. whatever. he tapped into it to an unquantifiable degree. do you know how much he used? regardless, it wasn't enough to beat a guy who needed help to slow the earth's rotation....



hmm, i'll remember that too when you're talking about superman--apparently now, when you need him to be, he's a chump who can never compare to pc guys. laughable and from someone who loves the character to turn on him and lie like that is a little disgraceful. people will love hearing you acknowledge that superman is a chump though.....



really? where was this?



that's possible i suppose. the lanterns weren't affected though and lantern has fought him. he may well still know, but if he did that would just make the whole fight far too easy anyway and his knowledge is irrelevant to my stance.



bs about how weak he was. utter crap. show a scan of him stating he was weakened. at all. and a thread about what? be my guest and open whatever you'd like.





kole. depowered superman. weakened cap marvel who seems to have had planetary strength.

this fight is never really in doubt--i've already proven he can be transmuted while you've shown NOTHING that says he can't. irrefutable fact. if you don't like the transmutation, ss sundips kal with massive amounts of sunlight and makes him uber sundipped--i trust a sundipped supes isn't a chump? . then he uses his tp to instill absolute confidence in gladiator. then he watches them handle adam h2h using their on-panel combat speed. even current kal knows about the lightning issue with cap, so it's easy for ss to blast him with lightning IF he feels he needs to. or he can try any of a million other things ss fans say he can do.

you admit to having almost no proof of anything, then call into question the fact that i'm questioning you and the illogical abc/tangential progression of your stance. if you brought this type of horrible, unsupported crap into a bz, you'd be rolled. not sure why you think bringing it into here is any more acceptable.

you've admitted he has hardly any appearances and you can't support....pretty well anything. yet you persist. meh, whatever gets you off i guess.

Superman had trouble with OMAC recently. Adam would win with just by farting.

Originally posted by abhilegend
At least I have some evidence, all you've got here is your wild imagination.

everything else is meaningless and been gone over already. so, let's recap, shall we:

i have PROOF that he can EASILY be transmuted. you have NO proof that he can't. you say he was weakened? prove he was said to be weak--and try using a RELEVANT scan, FROM the series, and not some scan from 2 or 3yrs prior as your source.....

i have PROOF he can be bfr'd. you have NO proof he can't be (or have SHOWN none).

i have PROOF he isn't as strong as a depowered superman--a superman that is FAR closer to owaw superman (and which you YOURSELF have said in the past....) than most want to admit. and ss could EASILY amp him to ridiculous levels. you have NOTHING save your failsafe--he's got TRUE invulnerability!!11! to fall back on.

i have PROOF of the combat speed feats these guys can use.

so, WHO exactly has no proof of anything again?



L
O
L

have you been READING this debate??? my stance is crystal clear and has been repeated ad nauseum throughout--these 3 demolish adam. can't be any clearer.



well, i want to see how far you're willing to carry your infinite fallacy. it's really of no relevance though so feel free to ignore if you can't answer.



kole>>>all previous pc characters i guess.....

Originally posted by leonidas
well, if he were tapping the whole power, the universe would have no energy. or whatever nonsense this 'mass of matter' is shooting off. But according to you, its not the power of big bang and thus it can't shut down the universe. Making the sun and stars go dim. He used the power of a big bang.



Which fuels the entire universe. You should read the whole scan. We got a quantifiable value, he channeled enough energy that if cap defeated him, everything would perish. Do you? The best of your three here got nearly mad by absorbing a portion of a red sun. Cap had absolute invulnerability, not strength.



You done here tryin to get a response outta me? Leave these for quan. I'm a fan, not a fanboy.



All star squadron 36, 51.



Carver would be proud of you for pulling something like this out of your ass.



How many times you can be wrong in one thread?
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/SupermanVsShazam-54.jpg Your explanation of who can beat adam here.



Glad you agree.

Adam was weakened in all of those.

That would be like showing the scan of depowered juggernaut getting hurt and saying that classic juggernaut would also get hurt by that. Not applicable. Just pulled a h1. This isn't a tourney. Irony, you are the guy who argued that gladiator always joins the fights at absolute confidence. Which would do nothing to adam. Current superman knows that current cap doesn't changes forms by simple lightning. Which is the only reason, you are here.

Where? I'm just calling upon the crap you are spewing. Its not a bz. Because its not a bz.

Yeah, lets pretend that I said something elese while having said something else entirely. The phucking Irony is that I'm the guy who posting scans while you're just flailing arms in air.

Originally posted by leonidas
everything else is meaningless and been gone over already. so, let's recap, shall we: Lead the way.

While depowered. Yeah, I have, his invulnerability. What an idiotic thing to say. Its been established, canon and shown on panel. Its like asking superman is vulnerable to red sun.


I have shown that he can access any point in time-space via ROE.
Of course because OWAW superman moved earth from several galaxies away in a few moments. This isn't a tourney. Because he does.

I have that too.

Of course you.





L
U
L
Z
I have. Without any proof, you might as well have no stance.



I didn't realize that taking shots from less powerful guys falls under it.



Feral>godblast. She scratched juggernaut whild godblast didn't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Lead the way.

While depowered. Yeah, I have, his invulnerability. What an idiotic thing to say. Its been established, canon and shown on panel. Its like asking superman is vulnerable to red sun.


I have shown that he can access any point in time-space via ROE.
Of course because OWAW superman moved earth from several galaxies away in a few moments. This isn't a tourney. Because he does.

I have that too.

Of course you.





L
U
L
Z
I have. Without any proof, you might as well have no stance.



I didn't realize that taking shots from less powerful guys falls under it.



Feral>godblast. She scratched juggernaut whild godblast didn't.

you're clearly exhausted. you ask for scans--you need to see scans of superman and glads using superpseed? you need scans of ss using matter manipulation? you need scans of sundipped superman? nice, but i think those are all pretty common knowledge..... and you've not shown a SINGLE adam scan!! you know, the guy YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT!

hilarious--cap needs help to restore a planet, and you criticize supermans efforts in owaw. but cap and adam are EQUALS!!1!

so, once again, ZERO scans to support anything. you already admitted he's only been in 10 issues doesn't have the feats. you equate him to cm but that's just dumb and abc logic AND adam is LESS than cm since he's lost. and he must be equal to ww as well, since cm is always shown equal to her too? i don't see her hauling around planets, so adam=ww and i like our guys odds more and more. and in future, i'll use ultraman to prove superman feats? terrible. it's clear you're argument has nothing.

hell, you haven't even ONCE proven adam is weakened or was weakened in crisis!! no reference was ever DIRECTLY MADE to adam being weakened. you try and pass off some treasury edition from 3 yrs previous as support. if he was weakened, don't you think it would be mentioned?? ridiculous. you show no speed feats, no....anything.

he was transmuted. he was going to be ko'd by supes and cm--easily. you have no proof he was weakened, or that he can resist transmutation. you cling to a single 70yr old scan. you know your logic and arguments are based on weak premises (abc/tangential) and you admit he doesn't have the appearances to have garnered feats.

yet you want everyone to believe you and accept you at your word.

lol

.

Originally posted by leonidas
you're clearly exhausted. you ask for scans-- You are exhausted if follwing is a clue. I wanted a scan of adam getting hurt while full powered. Its not my fault that you can't read simple sentences. Yes they are and I know about almost all of them. Clearly false, I showed multiple scans of adam. Cap is a good measurement of how adam's powers would work. Not feat transferring but like saying that if superman gets weakened by red sun, then supergirl would also get weakened.

Only because he wouldn't have produced the torque needed to reverse the rotation. Clearly stated in the comic. Do superman failing to slow down callisto is also a low showing? Not really, since it was cloaked by a relativistic bubble. Cap also moved a planet the size of earth to several solar systems. That they are.

What scan you need? Him tanking all three marvel's attack at the same time? Cap saying that neither can hurt each other? Yeah, I said that he was in 10 issues but I said that he has enough feats to determine his power levels. I didn't transfer cap's feats on adam and I just used the general idea of how cap's power works and using them to adam based upon their exactly the same powers. You mean when adam already had fought superman and cap was beating him because adam was on earth one far longer than cap and thus weaker? He didn't lose, cap had an edge and he took both superman and cap attacking at the same time. Could they have koed him after his power get much diminished? Possibly, but at his full power, they couldn't have done squat. Not pre crisis. Mary was beating diana then. Would you like to see diana hauling a sun? Sure, just as soon as ultraman gets powered by sunlight, is a kryptonian instead of his regular powers. Seeing that you've grasping straws like WW=adam based upom a post crisis notion forcing upon PC characters, its more like you.

Prove superman is weakened by red sun light. You are sounding like carver. Prove supergirl is weakened by kryptonite. LOL, so we are discarding proof from a comic because its a special oneshot despite it being canon and referenced again? So you think that if it doesn't get mentioned that superman is weak to kryptonite in a comic, he doesn't gets weakened? Yes, some of your arguments are worse than quan or carver's. Guess adam flying FTL to reach ROE isn't a speed feat. Oh well.

Are you being dense on purpose? This is seriously retarded when even after posting proofs, you are just ignoring them. LOLwut. The character is that old you dunderhead. I only know one thing that you are being purposely being dense.

Looks like everyone has already accepted it.

Yeah, it was my reaction too after reading your post with a big facepalm added.

Seriousy leo, this is how their fights went into Earth-S.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/Shazam_28_10.jpg

This is how their fight went in Earth-one

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/DC_Presents_49_22.jpg

You want to tell me that they weren't depowered even now?

Here is the proof that the the treasury edition you mentioned was canon

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_canonmeeting.jpg

^^ haven't forgotten this little gem of a thread. no time to reply these last couple days, but.....soon.

all right, so, let's see.....

adam punches off their heads. they are invulnerable and can't be transmuted. they have the speed to keep up. (i keep using they because you have been saying all along that adam=marvel in overall power and that much has been stated on panel though if you look at the results of their fights marvel typically comes out on top.) you also claim that adam was depowered when transmuted though never showed proof that adam has ever beed said to be depowered.

well, let's take a look at these issues a little more closely:

let's examine the whole 'true invulnerability' issue. you seem to think there is no way for any of these guys to harm adam. i beg to differ. i agree that harming adam/marvel was pretty difficult but let's look at some wider context first. marvel and his invulnerability was a product of his times. cap specialized in fighting enemies that reflected those times--that is to say he fought guys like cap nazi and 'nippo'. he walked around 'socking' gangsters and laughing off bullets. he called asians yellow monkeys and actually HAD a 'helper/friend/slave' who WAS a monkey (steamboat) and who referred to marvel as 'massah' (african american dialect for master). THAT was the era adam was born into, THAT was the era that first scan of him taking shots from mary and the marvel's was from. he couldn't hurt them, they couldn't hurt him. marvel was an invincible force of good, who fought and represented an invulnerable country. the stories were silly in the extreme and littered with pis that was truly mind boggling. trying to use any feat from THAT era is ridiculous. but, since that's where this all started, very well.

marvel was highly invulnerable to physical attacks, but not perfectly so.

here he is hurt by a rock that is dropped on him by his evil mirror twin who is his equal in every way:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/captainmarvel02329themi.jpg/

here, marvel socks his twin to great effect. the shot ends the fight as the fake marvel is somehow recaptured by the mirror:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/406/captainmarvel02330themi.jpg/

in both cases there is far greater effect caused by blows and objects than was evinced in the adam scans. clear proof marvel, and by extension adam, CAN be affected by physical power.

if that's not enough, ss can always just turn kallark and supes into mammoths:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/mammothf.jpg/

or donkeys.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/donkeyq.jpg/

and THOSE scans come AFTER that initial marvel family scan.

here's a scan from the same book you used early to show how they couldn't hurt each other. sure, they just stood around and hit each other to no effect, but they aren't as invincible from behind (a nice toss by adam though):

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/265/backattackr.jpg/

adam obviously felt that attack and certainly wasn't laughing it off as he did the previous attacks.....

now, those scans alone throw all manner of doubt on adam's/marvel's 'true invulnerability'. but just in case, there is this one, one of my personal faves. here he is being physically crushed and the power of the monster is such that it leaves FINGER DENTS!!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/194/fingerdents.jpg/

priceless. i wonder if that monster is capable of towing planets too....?

now, let's look at how 'special/unique' this 'true invulnerability' really was. here is ibac. truly invulnerable??

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/invulnerableibac.jpg/

TEN BLOWS! (note the asians in the background, one even coloured yellow...)

but pre-crisis was a fickle time. ibac would later be seen to NOT be so invulnerable, but he HAS put cap through his share of trouble and was able to affect him physically on more than one occasion:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/403/ibac2.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/59/fightao.jpg/

i've said repeatedly throughout this discussion that powers were very often PLOT DRIVEN in the pre-c world. i think those scans CLEARLY bear that out/ continued below.

so, i said we'd take a look at invulnerability. we've seen ibac display it. these guys are even better. completely invulnerable. we also see how marvel does against energy attacks:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/aliens1.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/152/aliens2.jpg/

he was down for a number of PANELS! i'll go out on a limb and suggest that ss is probably capable of equalling that type of power output. also a great speed feat for the little guys! priceless.....

and in case we think the alien invulnerability was a fluke:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/339/aliens3u.jpg/

and THIS is the type of stuff you want to extrapolate from?? lol

so, there is CERTAINLY a GREAT chance that BOTH guys could affect adam physically. especially at a time when marvel and adam were shown to have barely planetary levels of strength. their strength changed later, but it remained inconsistent in the pre-c days. if you want to look at pre-c, you better be willing to accept the good AND the bad.

now, as far as OTHER ways the team could win. you made repeated claims about adam's/marvel's ability to resist transmutation. well, let's take a peek, shall we:

now these first couple were magically based, but i included them anyway. the powers were HARDLY herald level spells as you shall see (lol) and serve to show that marvel/adam certainly have some vulnerability (i guess these guys>>shazam??):

this one is AWESOME! it's called the CLUCK-EYED CURSE:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/cluckeye.jpg/

and what did it cause marvel to do??

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/cluckeye.jpg/

LMAO!! when he tackled that lady is almost crippled myself. i LOVE his eyes!

here again, magic transmutation:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/turnedtotree.jpg/

again, just some random hack, shouting out spells. not exactly dr strange....

lest people think it is JUST magic that can affect him though:

here he was pushed by a regular guy!! into a box and he is duplicated!:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/262/duplicated.jpg/

he was actually duped several times by that machine....

and here again he is SHRUNK (great and EASY option for ss):

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/shrunk.jpg/

here again the marvel clan is immobilised by a simple tractor beam then caught in suspendium and held there for 20 YEARS!

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/tractorbeamsuspended.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/tractorbeam2.jpg/

ss REALLY can't duplicate a tractor beam??

here again marvel is hurt--and admits that he is mortal and can be KILLED by mr mind's power! (greatest villain ever--nothing quite as intimidating as an evil WORM!! lol):

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/killhim.jpg/

again, priceless. remember, you guys wanted to get into this pre-c thing..... but you're right--the characters ARE that old.....

continued below....

Leo has been unleashed

this is FUN!! last one.

in the event that you don't like THOSE as options for taking down adam/marvel, i guess they could always resort to THIS never-failed-attack:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/138/tickled.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/tickled2.jpg/

it cost him an attempt to save the country!! lol luckily the bomb proved to be a dud!

but yeah, today's issues of PIS are just as bad. lol

you also mentioned about combat speed, and how adam/marvel could easily match them. welllllllll............. let's look at how fast marvel and adam really are!

these scans speak for themselves....

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/captainmarvel02308theli.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/adamtoofast.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/slow1.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/822/slow2f.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/speed2eg.jpg/

that last one is sooooo good......

but yeah, because you showed one scan of them being able to FLY in a straight line at light speed, it overshadows ALL these feats.

there are so many like that i could have filled 10 posts! but those serve to get across what i've been saying all along--pre-c is RIDICULOUS. over time it became slightly less so, but the powers were STILL largely plot based and later feats do NOT wipe out earlier ones in pre-c. again, you take the good WITH the bad, not one OVER the other.

adam had so few appearances he never had a chance to develop the weaknessed cap showed. he WAS killed in his first issue by BEING TRICKED INTO SAYING SHAZAM! so dumb..... but THAT is the adam you want to go all 'true invulnerability' about??

again, ridiculous. marvel COULD be affected physically by beings FAR less powerful than glads and supes. he COULD be transmuted and was, multiple times. he WAS slow (though he did show bullet speed but had trouble chasing the bullet down....)

but pre-c really wasn't all that inconsistent? c'mon, peddle THAT nonsense somewhere else.

adam DID undergo something marvel didn't though--resurrection. aftre his death sivana raised him and took away his age-related weakness. my question is if THAT weakness was removed, what's to say his weakness from being outside his universe wasn't?? and i repeat--that weakness was NEVER brought up regarding adam in ANY of his appearances. you have to use a source years removed from his transmutation by kole AND made in reference to marvel. i do not for one second believe he was weakened in those issues you mentioned. the difference in the battles was as likely as reflection of the times and the more serious nature of the stories (no more 'ho-hum' tankings) as it was their being weakened. or maybe marvel WAS weakened, but again, no mention was ever made of that weakness belonging to adam. and ironically--after said weakness was referenced by marvel THEN he had some of his best strength feats!

god bless pre-c.

adam CAN be hurt physically. he CAN be transmuted. he is NOT fast enough to match their speed AND it's debateable that he is stronger than they are (some appearances he might be, others definitely not--there is no precedence of scans in pre-c--ALL are equally valid). you're only fall back might be that these scans all show marvel, not adam. and if that's your stance fine. you're the one who said all along they were equal in every way. and even if that IS your stance, i suspect others will see this and get what i've been saying all along. pre-c is ridiculous and inconsistent and powers are plot driven in ways that they would NEVER be today. no-limits fallacy fails miserably.

oh, and the team throttles him.

it's been fun.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zVOp5DlQ2MQ/TzO4rBdXZLI/AAAAAAAAAt4/qwC2MHP-xKA/s1600/approval-people-clapping.gif

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Leo has been unleashed



it was fun going back and look at those books. i used to have a bunch of shazam stuff but that was a LONG time ago. i knew where to look though and once i started i enjoyed the material so much i just kept reading! those times were something else. my trip back there only served to further convince me that pre-c stuff should never be brought into debates. the disparity in powers of the SAME characters are ludicrous. i could literally show DOZENS of other scans to support my stance but i think those serve the purpose for anyone unbiased enough to see them. and like i said--it was fun.

Eh, some of the Pre-Crisis stuff was consistent enough if you knew the context. I mean, it was no worse than modern comics with Hulk getting choked by a snake, Spider-Man beating Firelord, etc.

some of the LATER pre-c stuff had some consistency, but power levels were still all over the place and the initial scan that was the basis of the discussion was FROM that early era. there is no chance you'll ever convince me the plotting was as consistent as today though. but whatever.

a quick correction--i duped a scan in there somehow. THIS is the second cluck-eyed curse scan......

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/861/cluckeye2.jpg/

so frickin good.....

Originally posted by Endless Mike Eh, some of the Pre-Crisis stuff was consistent enough if you knew the context. I mean, it was no worse than modern comics with Hulk getting choked by a snake, Spider-Man beating Firelord, etc.

pretty much agree with this. the marvel family were doing insane feats that would place them way above the likes of supes or glads. id place marvel ahead of even sbp.

You should consider using something other than imageshack, it has viruses now

Originally posted by leonidas

it cracks me up that people jizz when they see PC in the title and assume that" no one can beat the pc!!1!" bull. crap.

I agree with you to a point. People do put too much stock in "PC" in front of a hero's name. I laugh out loud (that's old English for lol) whenever I see someone mention "PC GL". But the other side of the coin is that guys like PC Superman were insanely powerful and some do deserve the hype.

(Oh, and people get the same reaction to "skyfather" here as well. ....and to "Thanos"

Originally posted by leonidas
all right, so, let's see.....

Yeah, let's see.


You got the first part right and second part wrong. Adam and cap were exact equals.


Now this is some carver level shit. I've shown proof of cap being weaker and cap's fight with adam in Earth-one and their fight between Earth-S. Anyone with a common sense can see that they were depowered in other universes.


Ok.



Congrats leo, you are actually learning from country1000.





Nope, that was early golden age cap who was much closer to early golden age superman than the captain marvel from the later stories. Heck he couldn't even fly in early years.

Originally posted by abhilegend
MYTH:
Captain marvel was created with flight instead of jumping, so he isn't a complete superman rip-off.
Just like the original Superman who inspired him:

Whiz Comics #2 (Millenium print)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/elisha_carmen/dc/capmarvel01.jpg_

WC #3

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/elisha_carmen/dc/capmarvel02.jpg

WC #4

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/elisha_carmen/dc/capmarvel03.jpg

There was no usage of the word "fly" during his early years. Instead, "leap" was the ability used.

For those who don't know, cap started flying in Whiz comics 5.



Nope, its like me using these scans to prove that surfer is less durable than black knight and about equal to hawkeye.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Defenders11-13.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Defenders11-14.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/Defenders11-17-1.jpg



Its just pathetic leo. Using a surprised cap being trampled by a mammoth or being surprisingly thrown out by a donkey when he isn't slightly hurt means he's now less durable?





Being invulnerable doesn't mean you can't be knocked back from blows. The lengths to what you're reaching here, neither cap nor adam were slightly hurt by their mightiest blows. How strong was cap back in the day at full power? This strong

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_CMA011.jpg

You can deny all you want.



So he could laugh off the most powerful punch from cap without any problem but seeing that he was knocked back means somehow he became weaker? I'm not following your logic here.



Again with early cap stories. That wasn't the "true invulnerable" captain marvel.



Highly durable, not truly invulnerable.



That was an insanely amped Ibac by sivana and all he did was to make cap feel that blow which is shown against Mr. Invincible too.



This actually hurts your case as cap wasn't shown to be hurt here at all.



Hahaha, is that you country1000?

Originally posted by leonidas
so, i said we'd take a look at invulnerability. we've seen ibac display it. these guys are even better. completely invulnerable. we also see how marvel does against energy attacks:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/aliens1.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/152/aliens2.jpg/

Of course being put down on his ass and sitting down in that position is so hurting for cap. Wow!



Surfer can knock back cap! Congratulations are in order. Should I bring out surfer's speed feats?



So, the aliens were highly durable. I can see those aliens vs silver surfer thread soon. What does that have to do with this thread?



Yeah, this is clearly just a planetary level feat.

http://s1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/?action=view&current=CMA011.jpg

The problem is that you are just bringing out the lowest and highly out of context scans to prove your point and ignore any high level feat or the official ruling as straight up PIS. You know what, its a great type of debating. From now on only these are the indicative of surfer's power and anything else is PIS

Originally posted by abhilegend
Silver surfer owned by shield

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Ownage/SS17_11b.jpg

owned by a brick wall

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Ownage/SS17_12b.jpg

Owned by lockjaw

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Ownage/SS18_11b.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
As you wish

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/8424_1136590140943_1413049612_30358.jpg

Oh I forgot this

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/37023/1292887-screenshot181_super.jpg

and these too

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/FM_1981_014_04.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/FM_1981_014_05.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_07.jpg
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Marvel/ss_enslavers_08.jpg



Yeah, let's see.



Great, now surfer is a magicians too! I mean didn't you see how much magical spells surfer knows! Just a swift shazam lightning transformations away in ROE and any transmutation is gone.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/CMA139-33.jpg



here he was pushed by a regular guy!! into a box and he is duplicated!:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/262/duplicated.jpg/

he was actually duped several times by that machine....

Surfer can duplicate cap! How ingenious of him. How does this helps him though?



Surfer can shrink people? Scan please or is this another "power cosmic can do anything" episodes? I recall cap gaining his height after saying shazam anyway.



Surfer can create a plot device metal which was created as a hand-wave to solve the in-continuity problem of how marvels were inactive for 20 years? Because they were caught before any one "react" in the suspendium freezing them. The beam didn't paralyze them.



Again with early years of cap. Dr sivana disagrees with you though.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/DC_Comics_present025.jpg



Yeah and that's why we only use their lowest feats and discard any high level feats as PIS country1000 style. How adequate!



Yeah I think I am seeing a pattern here.

You do know that Surfer was just pretending to be knocked out by the Mexicans because he didn't want to fight, right?

Also the Iron Man black hole thing was actually scientifically consistent, as a micro black hole will decay and explode like that from Hawking radiation.

As an aside, I love the giant sign stuck to the planet in that Captain Marvel Scan

Originally posted by Endless Mike
You do know that Surfer was just pretending to be knocked out by the Mexicans because he didn't want to fight, right?

Also the Iron Man black hole thing was actually scientifically consistent, as a micro black hole will decay and explode like that from Hawking radiation.

As an aside, I love the giant sign stuck to the planet in that Captain Marvel Scan



and of course ss allowed the armbar to happen too.... i should post the scan of old marvel going through a black hole to see just how 'unrealistic' that ironman reference was. it's hilarious. literally a tunnel in the sky that takes him to a world that HAD to be lsd inspired....

Originally posted by leonidas
hrm. you have me completely reconsidering what i said in that bz thread, unfortunately....

As my previous assessment of yours my friend, but don't worry I wouldn't change my opinion by one thread.


Really? Guess all my efforts were in vain like this attempt to show you some scans

Originally posted by abhilegend
Seriousy leo, this is how their fights went into Earth-S.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/Shazam_28_10.jpg

This is how their fight went in Earth-one

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/DC_Presents_49_22.jpg

You want to tell me that they weren't depowered even now?

Here is the proof that the the treasury edition you mentioned was canon

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_canonmeeting.jpg I was criticizing you for using the early golden age cap and assuming that its the default durability for him which isn't true.

Unless you think gladiator explicitly stating that he is using his mightiest punch isn't using his full strength, then yes he is using force that in MULTIPLE blows broke a planet of unknown size.

I'm just asking you to prove that these guys can hurt him and then you go and use these scans to prove that he can be hurt.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/mammothf.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/233/donkeyq.jpg/

I don't know what to do seeing these scans, laugh or be amused that you didn't even read the scans you posted.
Yeah, at full power this happened in marvel family 1 in 1945

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/MarvelFamily001_017.jpg

And this happened in Shazam 28 in 1976

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Superman/Shazam_28_10.jpg

*GASP* How much has it changed?
Yeah, it did like this?
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/th_0022.jpg

It was around the same time when all this happened.

Are you serious with all of these? He told us exactly what happened and how big the sun was.

Yeah that thing is sure PIS because you can't push a dead condensed star, right? But this isn't PIS, right?

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t173/EndlessMike9/drax/draxstarbusting.jpg



Yeah like I said only low feats matter for those days, every high feat is because story demanded it. I got the memo, thank you.

Where did I insult you? That was because of this

Originally posted by leonidas
you cling to a single 70yr old scan.

What would've I said instead mind you?



Context? You showed a bunch of scans which were from before the time his invulnerability was established and pretend that its true for everything and any higher showing is PIS. Anybody who knows the truth would criticize you at such an attempt.



Yeah, you are AMAZING.baka

Yeah, I know how much worse it can get from cap koing hulk, right? Bitter? No limit fallacy? I'm not trying to use cap unable to harm adam as a proof that galactus or celestials can't harm him. I'm using it to say that these three who are several level below that kind of power can harm him. Its like being accused of no limit fallacy when asking the proof that wonder man can harm juggernaut. What is there to admit? Its not ABC logic when trying to use a more powerful being unable to harm you and saying that a less powerful being can't harm you. Not at all. Cap recovered from that transmutation very quickly you know and this is like asking that celestials were unable to ko thor and then using some random low showing and proclaiming that this guy>>>>>>>celestials.

Ok. How does that changes things?

Except there is no changes for PC adam and marvel since you know they are retconned out of existence. Yeah, we saw how much it changed over the years, didn't we?

Like I said when you find the equivalent of cap knocking out hulk with straight punches in silver age or golden age, call me.

Adam isn't durable enough as Thor clearly. This isn't a tourney.
Shrinking himself=/=shrinking others.

Just lulz at this point. Yeah, surfer can cast spells now. you learn new things everyday. Yeah, I got a hearty laugh when I saw you posting a scan where cap was just knocked back and sitting down as cap being out of the fight. That was just sarcasm, you know about that, don't you? Do you? I did
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/CMA139-33.jpg

Surfer can shrink him and get a punch in the mouth at the same force, since you know his strength would remain the same.

Really?

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/Pre-crisis/Shazam_28_28.jpg

This is just laughable now.

Yeah, having exact same powers as Cap and able to hold himself against Superman means he was just a weak feeb. Yeah because saying someone is in the league of strength when they have the exact same power is ABC logic. Yeah, he just held himself against superman and had the exact same powers as captain marvel. How dare I assume that he is in their ballpark in strength and speed!


Yeah, I like my strategy very much, thank you very much. I wouldn't hold you for this anyway. Yeah, using country1000's logic is fun where you can dismiss any showing you don't like. Yeah, I didn't have fun, I hope this doesn't happen in our future debates.

has superman and ever been depicted as anything but complete equals in strength? not in combat that's for sure. and pushing a star (lol) is likely as good as ANY feat supes has. yet superman was SAID to be stronger than adam.

adam<marvel

wonderwoman and marvel have been shown to be equal as well--hell ww once had the upperhand on him, yet ww<superman but apparently ww=ba

abc logic for the fail. so long as that is the route you continue to take in debates, this WILL happen again and again....

and i was talking about their fight where you said they were both 'weakned'....

cap was NOT invulnerable to physical harm in any way close to the way he ho-hummed adam's blows. adam's extremely rare appearances are NOT enough to go on.

but carry on. i'd love to bz the topic with you and see what some knowledgeable posters have to say on the issue and the way you made your case. or maybe ask a mod to rule on the issue using the info in this thread. maybe they'd see it your way, who knows..... but i doubt it.

Originally posted by leonidas
has superman and ever been depicted as anything but complete equals in strength? not in combat that's for sure. and pushing a star (lol) is likely as good as ANY feat supes has. yet superman was SAID to be stronger than adam.

Who is said to be equal to superman in strength?


No.



WW and marvel has never met Pre crisis IIRC.



I'm not saying that adam is going to push a star as well but from their fight he is well within cap and superman's strength range. What's so hard to understand here? Does doomsday being stronger than captain marvel because he's stronger than superman is abc logic too?



What about it?



Because he was weakened on earth-one. So we are going to use your fabricated power levels where superman and gladiator are going to affect adam when he completely no sold cap and marvel family on two different ocassions?



Ok. Once I am free from my high herald match, I would battlezone you upon it.

Current Supes had trouble with OMAC in strength. Adam destroys him and Gladiator.

^talking about pre-reboot superman....

regardless, a bz on this topic would be fine with me. let me know when you want to do it.

^After my high herald match i.e. after two weeks.

I thought we use current characters unless the OP specifies. :/

i never use post reboot superman--not enough showings--and most of the time i think most forum people use pre-reboot kal as well. if big c meant post reboot, that's a whole different ballgame. i don't even know that he CAN be sundipped.....

Than he should specify, which one. Either way, I'll side with Adam.

Pre dcnu supes

Back when Captain Marvel/Black Adam were published by Fawcett Comics, they were considered by most to be Superman's overall superior (having almost identical abilities, yet no weaknesses to speak of.) *Flash Fact*

So adam covered more than 10 billion light years in 5000 years.
That's more than 2 million times the speed of light.

Originally posted by h1a8
So adam covered more than 10 billion light years in 5000 years.
That's more than 2 million times the speed of light. Correct

Originally posted by abhilegend
Almost every low showing floating on internet lacks context and people do not know that superman was heavily depowered in 1971 and was reduced to planet moving levels.


Going from memory I believe you are right. I remember reading writer interviews of them saying due to his infinite power its difficult for the challenges to give Superman. IIRC was it after the Sandman saga were he got a de-power. I read the interview a long time ago.

I mean Superman literally went from throwing planets like baseballs......to moving planets easily..........to finally......moving planets.....with a lot of effort.

I actually have Superman No. 110 where he throws a planet to make a eclipse IIRC. He fights big ants as well in it.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Going from memory I believe you are right. I remember reading writer interviews of them saying due to his infinite power its difficult for the challenges to give Superman. IIRC was it after the Sandman saga were he got a de-power. I read the interview a long time ago.

I mean Superman literally went from throwing planets like baseballs......to moving planets easily..........to finally......moving planets.....with a lot of effort.

I actually have Superman No. 110 where he throws a planet to make a eclipse IIRC. He fights big ants as well in it.
Yep, it was sandman saga.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Correct lol

Like you or h1 have any idea what you're talking about