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Who is more durable when it comes to physical attacks? Classic Juggs with his FF up, or Exitar?

JUGGERNAUT

Juggernaut probably. The Godblast didn't do shyte to him.

Juggernaut is more durable than the typical cosmics like Galactus or Exitar. Juggs can shrug off Thor's godblast, WWHs punches... and Invisible Womans force field

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Juggernaut probably. The Godblast didn't do shyte to him.

Thor was weakened when he godblasted him.

So does that mean cytorrak is above celestials?

Feats wise juggy is more durable

Originally posted by pym-ftw
So does that mean cytorrak is above celestials?

Feats wise juggy is more durable

As an Elder God, he should be far below any Celestial....nevermind Exitar.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
As an Elder God, he should be far below any Celestial....nevermind Exitar. I know he should be but 8th day seemed nearly as impressive as a celestial

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Thor was weakened when he godblasted him.

I don't know why this fact keeps being ignored or not mentioned.

Originally posted by Hyperion Prime
Juggernaut probably. The Godblast didn't do shyte to him. It wasn't anywhere near as powerful as the gblast used on Exitar.

Theoretically, it should be Exitar, since:

Celestrial > Cyttorak.

Cyttorak > Juggernaut.

But feat-wise, I'm not sure it's that clear-cut.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
As an Elder God, he should be far below any Celestial....nevermind Exitar.

One of the most powerful elder gods , Set , was banished by the power of a cosmic cube . The cube got drained , but still .

And we all know that your average no-name Celestial is orders of magnitude more powerful that a cc .

Originally posted by Magnon
Juggernaut is more durable than the typical cosmics like Galactus or Exitar. Juggs can shrug off Thor's godblast, WWHs punches... and Invisible Womans force field

Thor's godblast , when used on Exitar was performed by an AMPED Mjolnir . Even then it only managed to cause a small crack on Exitar's armor .
And when Thor tried to pull off the same stunt on Exitar's brain-dome , Mjolnir got destroyed .

I recall that when the godblast was used on Juggernaut , it didn't actually damage him , but it did push him back .

Exitar

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

I recall that when the godblast was used on Juggernaut , it didn't actually damage him , but it did push him back . Technically it just halted Juggeranut I don't think it pushed him back,

and while I do agree Cyttorak should < a Celestial the fact is we don't know how powerful he is especially when in the Crimson Cosmos where he could operate on any potentially numerous levels and tiers of power.

The Crimson Cosmos/Cyttorak has been referred to as a universe/being of unlimited power before by editors(of course that is a really old statement).

It did make him go backwards.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
It did make him go backwards. I thought it was stated he felt a moment of vertigo and he felt himself starting to get pushed backwards not that he did get pushed backwards.

Actually before Thor performed the Gods Blast vs Juggie he said he regained his strength.

But The Celestial's Gods Blast was actually more powerful the the one performed on Juggie.

He REINFORCED Mjolnir with the belt of strength and the amount of force He used was so much that the Mallet broke, even with the Belt.

Exitar wins

Exitar only had his shell damaged, his true being was unharmed

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Exitar only had his shell damaged, his true being was unharmed

The damage to his shell was also very minimal .

Juggeraut.
lulz at the butt hurts who are mad that juggernaut is more dureable

who cares if it was weakened( which can be argued against)
it didnt do Shyt to him in terms of damage, made it clear the godblast was no wear near powerful enough to even register pain to him

Originally posted by Glorificus
Theoretically, it should be Exitar, since:

Celestrial > Cyttorak.

Cyttorak > Juggernaut.

But feat-wise, I'm not sure it's that clear-cut.

There is absolutely no way to say a Celestial is > Cyttorak, unless Cyttorak has been bested by one before or called weaker than one.

Cyttorak's the same guy who has trapped Galactus, along with Sorcerer Supreme Strange in his realm.

Dr. Strange at his best has been shown to be completely powerless against Cyttorak a handful of times before.

Cyttorak's relation to a Celestial in power, is a big question mark.

cheap arse "Celestial tech" + Hulk >>>> Juggernaut.

You do the math... (as they say).

You can't do the math with variables that are completely unknown.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
There is absolutely no way to say a Celestial is > Cyttorak, unless Cyttorak has been bested by one before or called weaker than one.

Cyttorak's the same guy who has trapped Galactus, along with Sorcerer Supreme Strange in his realm.

Dr. Strange at his best has been shown to be completely powerless against Cyttorak a handful of times before.

Cyttorak's relation to a Celestial in power, is a big question mark.

Dr. Strange is nothing to a Celestial, so I'm not sure what point you're making there. Saying that since Strange is powerless against Cyttorak, implies anything about a Celestial makes no sense.

Odin, with the Destroyer Armor, Odinsword, and all the power of all Asgardians was shown to be basically powerless against Celestials.

Cyttorak's power level has always been kind of vague to me, but I've seen nothing to suggest he's anything more than an elder god, a tier above odin, and probably equal to the likes of rune king thor (MAYBE). If he is an elder god, he's nothing to a celestial.

Comparing their feats, Celestials have MUCH higher end feats than Cyttorak, while you can argue that absence of evidence of high end feats from Cyttorak doesn't necessarily prove he ISN'T more powerful than we've seen him, you also can't assume he could match celestial feats until we see otherwise.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
You can't do the math with variables that are completely unknown.
not "completely unknown". merely a variable that exists within a clearly definable range.

at it's highest on-panel, as evidenced by HOTM, it is enough to flatten a dimension.

at its lowest on-panel, Savage Hulk got choked out by a snake.


Celestials ... a little higher up than that.

Unless you're suggesting that Hulk + Celestial Tech > Celestial?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Dr. Strange is nothing to a Celestial, so I'm not sure what point you're making there. Saying that since Strange is powerless against Cyttorak, implies anything about a Celestial makes no sense.

Odin, with the Destroyer Armor, Odinsword, and all the power of all Asgardians was shown to be basically powerless against Celestials.

Cyttorak's power level has always been kind of vague to me, but I've seen nothing to suggest he's anything more than an elder god, a tier above odin, and probably equal to the likes of rune king thor (MAYBE). If he is an elder god, he's nothing to a celestial.

Comparing their feats, Celestials have MUCH higher end feats than Cyttorak, while you can argue that absence of evidence of high end feats from Cyttorak doesn't necessarily prove he ISN'T more powerful than we've seen him, you also can't assume he could match celestial feats until we see otherwise.

Dr. Strange at Sorcerer Supreme level dealt in power scales FAR above Celestials.

So you believe Sorcerer Supreme Strange would beat Exitar one on one?

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Dr. Strange is nothing to a Celestial, so I'm not sure what point you're making there. Saying that since Strange is powerless against Cyttorak, implies anything about a Celestial makes no sense.

Odin, with the Destroyer Armor, Odinsword, and all the power of all Asgardians was shown to be basically powerless against Celestials.

Cyttorak's power level has always been kind of vague to me, but I've seen nothing to suggest he's anything more than an elder god, a tier above odin, and probably equal to the likes of rune king thor (MAYBE). If he is an elder god, he's nothing to a celestial.

Comparing their feats, Celestials have MUCH higher end feats than Cyttorak, while you can argue that absence of evidence of high end feats from Cyttorak doesn't necessarily prove he ISN'T more powerful than we've seen him, you also can't assume he could match celestial feats until we see otherwise.

Well, how can one be so wrong in just 1 post.Stating things he has no idea about , so clueless.

For one you have one of the mightiest celestials having nightmares about Elder God and you are assuming Celestial > Elder God.

Then you have Cyttorak who The Vishanti are very weary of and they were shown to be cappable of destroying hundreds of universes as collateral damage in a fight and also not paying any respect to LT.And then there is his avatar The Juggernaut who during his classic period was able to beat Classic Nightmare in his own realm and then you are saying Odin is some kind of a big deal and just a tier below Elder Gods.

And then there is Chthon who may or may not have been responsible for Wanda's feats but its a fact that the Chaos Wave that she was warping the omniverse with has a link to Chthon since Chaos Magic is Chthon's magic.Not to mention that Chthon was used in the same sentence with God(the shadow that cripples beneath God's feet ~~ and he is the only power significant enough to be compared to God)


In fact Marvel's mystics are the beings of the highest order in Marvel but on this board Elder Gods are assumed to be some Skyfather+ beings while in fact they make all cosmics look like germs.For instance CW Herc was amped to multiversal levels by Gaea(iirc, can't remember if she amped him or he had that inner power in himself but its a fact that he is her grandson so his power originated from her) instantly making him multi-eternity level.Thats how powerful Elder Gods are.

Originally posted by Sabro
Well, how can one be so wrong in just 1 post.Stating things he has no idea about , so clueless.

For one you have one of the mightiest celestials having nightmares about Elder God and you are assuming Celestial > Elder God.

Then you have Cyttorak who The Vishanti are very weary of and they were shown to be cappable of destroying hundreds of universes as collateral damage in a fight and also not paying any respect to LT.And then there is his avatar The Juggernaut who during his classic period was able to beat Classic Nightmare in his own realm and then you are saying Odin is some kind of a big deal and just a tier below Elder Gods.
Tiamut was in dreaming/sleeping state . Basically speaking , he was vulnerable . Anybody else in his position , would have "shuddered and moaned" too .
Also show me a scan or refer me to the comic issue number in which the Vishanti disrespected the LT , or one in which they "destroyed 100s of universes" . The latter feat is more believable than the former , btw .

Originally posted by Sabro

And then there is Chthon who may or may not have been responsible for Wanda's feats but its a fact that the Chaos Wave that she was warping the omniverse with has a link to Chthon since Chaos Magic is Chthon's magic.Not to mention that Chthon was used in the same sentence with God(the shadow that cripples beneath God's feet ~~ and he is the only power significant enough to be compared to God)
In Children's Crusade , it was revealed by Dr Doom , that the source of HoM Wanda's godlike abilities was the Life-Force . So , yeah , whatever involvement(i.e providing a power-boost/amp to her) Chthon was originally supposed to have with HoM Wanda , has now been retconned .

Originally posted by Sabro

In fact Marvel's mystics are the beings of the highest order in Marvel but on this board Elder Gods are assumed to be some Skyfather+ beings while in fact they make all cosmics look like germs.For instance CW Herc was amped to multiversal levels by Gaea(iirc, can't remember if she amped him or he had that inner power in himself but its a fact that he is her grandson so his power originated from her) instantly making him multi-eternity level.Thats how powerful Elder Gods are.
IIRC , then Set was banished by the power of a simple exorcism spell cast by Strange , which was being massively boosted by a cosmic cube(that was being used by Strange , Spiderman,Scarlet Witch etc.) . At the end of the stroy , the cube was completely drained of power .So , based upon that arc(which took place in MAINSTREAM 616) , its safe to say a high level elder god like Set is a little above a CCU . Sufficiently above that it can't destroy him , but not above enough that its power can't be used to banish him .

Originally posted by Sabro
Well, how can one be so wrong in just 1 post.Stating things he has no idea about , so clueless.

For one you have one of the mightiest celestials having nightmares about Elder God and you are assuming Celestial > Elder God.

Then you have Cyttorak who The Vishanti are very weary of and they were shown to be cappable of destroying hundreds of universes as collateral damage in a fight and also not paying any respect to LT.And then there is his avatar The Juggernaut who during his classic period was able to beat Classic Nightmare in his own realm and then you are saying Odin is some kind of a big deal and just a tier below Elder Gods.

And then there is Chthon who may or may not have been responsible for Wanda's feats but its a fact that the Chaos Wave that she was warping the omniverse with has a link to Chthon since Chaos Magic is Chthon's magic.Not to mention that Chthon was used in the same sentence with God(the shadow that cripples beneath God's feet ~~ and he is the only power significant enough to be compared to God)


In fact Marvel's mystics are the beings of the highest order in Marvel but on this board Elder Gods are assumed to be some Skyfather+ beings while in fact they make all cosmics look like germs.For instance CW Herc was amped to multiversal levels by Gaea(iirc, can't remember if she amped him or he had that inner power in himself but its a fact that he is her grandson so his power originated from her) instantly making him multi-eternity level.Thats how powerful Elder Gods are.

Clearly you're quite clueless as to the Marvel hierarchy of power. You're basing Elder gods being > Celestials because of a dream? Really? I've had nightmares my teddy bear was going to kill me when I was a kid.

If Elder gods are > Celestials, why is it that when the Celestials threatened to cut the gods off from Earth's by closing off their dimensions on them, did Gaea (an elder goddess) create the young gods to prove to the Celestials humanity's worth or whatever? Why didn't she just use her supposed superior power to drive them off?

(oh and it wouldn't have been just her, all the gods and goddesses of earth combined couldn't beat the fourth host. And the fourth host is less powerful than exitar.)

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Clearly you're quite clueless as to the Marvel hierarchy of power. You're basing Elder gods being > Celestials because of a dream? Really? I've had nightmares my teddy bear was going to kill me when I was a kid.

If Elder gods are > Celestials, why is it that when the Celestials threatened to cut the gods off from Earth's by closing off their dimensions on them, did Gaea (an elder goddess) create the young gods to prove to the Celestials humanity's worth or whatever? Why didn't she just use her supposed superior power to drive them off?

(oh and it wouldn't have been just her, all the gods and goddesses of earth combined couldn't beat the fourth host. And the fourth host is less powerful than exitar.)

Where were Celestials when Chaos King was devouring the multiverse. Gaea had to step in, remember.

Originally posted by Sabro
Where were Celestials when Chaos King was devouring the multiverse. Gaea had to step in, remember.

That was a story mainly focused on earth gods , IIRC .

Originally posted by Sabro
Where were Celestials when Chaos King was devouring the multiverse. Gaea had to step in, remember.
Because of greg pak being a hack?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
IIRC , then Set was banished by the power of a simple exorcism spell cast by Strange , which was being massively boosted by a cosmic cube(that was being used by Strange , Spiderman,Scarlet Witch etc.) . At the end of the stroy , the cube was completely drained of power .So , based upon that arc(which took place in MAINSTREAM 616) , its safe to say a high level elder god like Set is a little above a CCU . Sufficiently above that it can't destroy him , but not above enough that its power can't be used to banish him .
Not for anything, but it wasn't a "simple exorcism" spell. If was a spell invoking his artifacts and being backed by the power of a Cosmic Cube with willpower assist from 3 other heroes.

This was proven later when Strange 'destroyed' his artifacts and the exorcism spell that banished Set was weakened.

Originally posted by zopzop
Not for anything, but it wasn't a "simple exorcism" spell. If was a spell invoking his artifacts and being backed by the power of a Cosmic Cube with willpower assist from 3 other heroes.

This was proven later when Strange 'destroyed' his artifacts and the exorcism spell that banished Set was weakened.

I saw your respect thread , and I'll admit that it was not a "simple exorcism spell" as I originally thought , but "an ancient ritual of exorcism" and in Strange's own words "a spell that will forever exorcise the mind of Set from this plane of reality" .
In the scans that you posted , apart from the cosmic cube (and that ancient exorcism spell) , no other artifact seems to seems to have been used .
So , my original statement isn't entirely wrong , as Set is still sufficiently above a CCU , such that it can't destroy him(although it can destroy the merged Serpent Crown , when in possession of 3 or more persons) : http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/marvelteamupannual19823.jpg/
However , when used in conjunction with high level exorcism magic , the CCU can (permanently?) banish Set from our reality , but at the cost of getting completely drained of power :
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/marvelteamupannual19823.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/marvelteamupannual19824.jpg/

Credits for the scans go to you , of course .

Originally posted by janus77
cheap arse "Celestial tech" + Hulk >>>> Juggernaut.

You do the math... (as they say). He never stoped juggs, just slowed him. What does that have to do with hurting him?

For the record, tiamut is scared of the elder gods. on panel.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
He never stoped juggs, just slowed him. What does that have to do with hurting him?

This scan tells a different story :
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/118368/2333162- the_thing_and_hulk_vs_collosuss_and_juggernaut_586
3.jpg

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
For the record, tiamut is scared of the elder gods. on panel.

Tiamut was in a dreaming/sleeping state . Basically he was vulnerable . In fact Uncanny X-Men #1-3 has shown that in his dreaming state , he is vulnerable enough for a guy like Mr Sinister to take over his body .
Basically speaking , anyone else in his position would have "moaned and shuddered " as well .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
This scan tells a different story :
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/118368/2333162- the_thing_and_hulk_vs_collosuss_and_juggernaut_586
3.jpg

Here's the scan :

Juggernaut.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Juggernaut.

And I'm sure you're not biased in any way...

Why would you say that?

Well, your name, your avatar, and your signature, to start...

Originally posted by Sabro
Where were Celestials when Chaos King was devouring the multiverse. Gaea had to step in, remember.

This is one of the most moronic arguments I've ever heard. First, I clearly showed Gaea herself doesn't consider herself a match for Celestials. Second, I can use that same argument about the Living Tribunal, Fulcrum, the phoenix force, etc. Are you telling me that since Gaea "stepped in" and they didn't, she is more powerful than them? I hope you're not that delusional.

Why doesn't Superman just go to Gotham for one day and eliminate all of Batman's villains? Why doesn't Thor get involved in Spiderman's battles? Where is Thor when Carnage is going on a rampage? He could end any storyline with a Spiderman villain in 10 seconds.

That and Greg Pak is moron.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Well, your name, your avatar, and your signature, to start...

lol

I think Onslaught is laughing at this thread

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Here's the scan : Juggs durability enchantment is much greater than his unstoppable enchantment. Over riding the lessor doesn't mean you can over ride the greater.

Lastly the fact that Exitar was penetrated by an attack that Juggs barely felt should end the thread.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
This is one of the most moronic arguments I've ever heard. First, I clearly showed Gaea herself doesn't consider herself a match for Celestials. Second, I can use that same argument about the Living Tribunal, Fulcrum, the phoenix force, etc. Are you telling me that since Gaea "stepped in" and they didn't, she is more powerful than them? I hope you're not that delusional.

Why doesn't Superman just go to Gotham for one day and eliminate all of Batman's villains? Why doesn't Thor get involved in Spiderman's battles? Where is Thor when Carnage is going on a rampage? He could end any storyline with a Spiderman villain in 10 seconds.

That and Greg Pak is moron.

Gaea might not be a match for a host of Celestials but surely she might be a match for one Celestial.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Here's the scan : Which doesnt change what i said, how does that even remotely have to do with damaging him?

His unstoppability is not whats up for debate here

lol this thread went from 0 to retarded in no time at all.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol this thread went from 0 to retarded in no time at all.

Yup, this thread shouldn't have been created when Exitar has been damaged by attacks that Juggernaut barely felt. Celestials can reform and have vast offensive power so it doesn't suprise me if they aren't more durable than Juggs.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I saw your respect thread , and I'll admit that it was not a "simple exorcism spell" as I originally thought , but "an ancient ritual of exorcism" and in Strange's own words "a spell that will forever exorcise the mind of Set from this plane of reality" .
In the scans that you posted , apart from the cosmic cube (and that ancient exorcism spell) , no other artifact seems to seems to have been used .
So , my original statement isn't entirely wrong , as Set is still sufficiently above a CCU , such that it can't destroy him(although it can destroy the merged Serpent Crown , when in possession of 3 or more persons) : http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/marvelteamupannual19823.jpg/
However , when used in conjunction with high level exorcism magic , the CCU can (permanently?) banish Set from our reality , but at the cost of getting completely drained of power :
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/marvelteamupannual19823.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/marvelteamupannual19824.jpg/

Credits for the scans go to you , of course .
Here is the scan that explains what I meant :
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2707/talismen.th.jpg

So to banish Set it took an exorcism spell invoking Strange's artifacts backed by the full power of a Cosmic Cube (wielded by 4 people). If anyone of those things hadn't been available to Strange, they would never have banished him from the Earth. So once his talismans were gone, there went the spell.

Originally posted by zopzop
Here is the scan that explains what I meant :
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2707/talismen.th.jpg

So to banish Set it took an exorcism spell invoking Strange's artifacts backed by the full power of a Cosmic Cube (wielded by 4 people). If anyone of those things hadn't been available to Strange, they would never have banished him from the Earth. So once his talismans were gone, there went the spell.

But that scan also mentions that Ghaur and LLyra had to build a new Serpent Crown to bring him back , which means he apparently wasn't strong enough to return to the 616 dimension under his own power .
Or , does he always need a Serpent Crown to enter 616 ?

Originally posted by h1a8
Juggs durability enchantment is much greater than his unstoppable enchantment. Over riding the lessor doesn't mean you can over ride the greater.

Lastly the fact that Exitar was penetrated by an attack that Juggs barely felt should end the thread.

That's like saying Wonder Woman is more durable than Superman , because she can't be affected by kryptonite . A very fallacious argument .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
That's like saying Wonder Woman is more durable than Superman , because she can't be affected by kryptonite . A very fallacious argument .
How is it? Exitar was penetrated by a hammer slam and a Godblast.
But the Godblast and a blunt force hammer slam isn't kryptonite to Celestials. hyperspace energy is.

Originally posted by h1a8
Gaea might not be a match for a host of Celestials but surely she might be a match for one Celestial.

What? No. Again, it wasn't just Gaea, it would have been her and every god and goddess on earth. The Celestials had the power to trap them in their own dimensions. Thor said that Odin is nothing to a single Celestial (grated Odin is below an Elder god, but I've seen nothing to suggest he would be manhandled like that by an Elder). And there are single Celestials that are more powerful than the entire host, such as Exitar. So even by your own logic you're wrong.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
But that scan also mentions that Ghaur and LLyra had to build a new Serpent Crown to bring him back , which means he apparently wasn't strong enough to return to the 616 dimension under his own power .
Or , does he always need a Serpent Crown to enter 616 ?
They had to build a new Serpent Crown because that's his touchstone to Earth (since Atum/Demogorge banished him the second time, after their millions year old stalemate).

Originally posted by h1a8
How is it? Exitar was penetrated by a hammer slam and a Godblast.
But the Godblast and a blunt force hammer slam isn't kryptonite to Celestials. hyperspace energy is.

Exitar was only slightly cracked by an AMPED Mjolnir . As mere SIDE-EFFECTS of its strike , entire mountains collapsed , planet wide earthquakes were caused , and the brunt of the strike could only cause a tiny crack on Exitar's shell .

Originally posted by zopzop
They had to build a new Serpent Crown because that's his touchstone to Earth (since Atum/Demogorge banished him the second time, after their millions year old stalemate).

So is the answer to this question :
Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Or , does he always need a Serpent Crown to enter 616 ?

a "Yes" ?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Exitar was only slightly cracked by an AMPED Mjolnir . As mere SIDE-EFFECTS of its strike , entire mountains collapsed , planet wide earthquakes were caused , and the brunt of the strike could only cause a tiny crack on Exitar's shell .

Yet Thor isn't doing anything but slightly tickling Juggs with the same attacks.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
So is the answer to this question :


a "Yes" ? Yes, because he was banished by a cosmic cube+Dr Strange+demogorge+Gaea

Except Thor was weakened when he godblasted Juggernaut. A few panels earlier he could barely stand because of his illness. Not only that, but Thor even cracking Exitar's shell is PIS (much like him driving off Galactus with it). It falls along the same thing as Spiderman beating Firelord.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
So is the answer to this question :


a "Yes" ?
Ever since he second banishment by Demogorge, the answer is "Yes".
EDIT
Here is the proof -
http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2766/banished.th.jpg

Originally posted by h1a8
Yet Thor isn't doing anything but slightly tickling Juggs with the same attacks.

Thor never attacked Juggernaut with an AMPED Mjolnir .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Thor never attacked Juggernaut with an AMPED Mjolnir .

That too.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Except Thor was weakened when he godblasted Juggernaut. A few panels earlier he could barely stand because of his illness. Not only that, but Thor even cracking Exitar's shell is PIS (much like him driving off Galactus with it). It falls along the same thing as Spiderman beating Firelord. Thor said he regained his strength though. Also how is thor cracking exitar armor pis when people like namor and juggernaut colossus can damage tiamuts armor?
Iir Hercules Cracked galactus armor (although it was in a universe were galactus couldnt use his powers)

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Thor said he regained his strength though. Also how is thor cracking exitar armor pis when people like namor and juggernaut colossus can damage tiamuts armor?

Tiamut wasn't in possession of his armor at that time , Mr Sinister was . Also , it was Mr Sinister who used the Celestial's reality warping abilities to break apart the armor into hundreds of individual fragments , which were used to distract the Extinction team .
Namor was only able to damage a thin fragment of the Celestial's armor , and we don't know whether Mr Sinister temporarily warped its durability to give them a brief moral boost , only to **** them up later . Its speculation either way .
However , neither Namor , nor Colossus , shattered the armor in its entirety . Only individual slivers were broken(and they immediately reformed afterwards) .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Thor never attacked Juggernaut with an AMPED Mjolnir . Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
That too.
Where was it stated that Mjolnir was amped? The Belt didn't amp anything, it was to reinforce Mjolnir so it could safely contain/channel the Godblast :
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6876/contain.th.jpg

Originally posted by zopzop
Where was it stated that Mjolnir was amped? The Belt didn't amp anything, it was to reinforce Mjolnir so it could safely contain/channel the Godblast :
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/6876/contain.th.jpg

In that very scan , Thor admits "that not even sacred Mjolnir can safely contain energies of such incomparable intensity" . Thor has performed godblasts before(including on Juggernaut as well) , but in none of those cases did he need to wrap Mjolnir with the belt of power. This can only mean that this particular godblast was much more powerful than your regular godblast . Mjolnir needed to be physically stronger in order to withstand the kind of force it was about to unleash . What better way to strengthen it , than to wrap the belt of power(which enhances physical strength) around his hammer ?
Whatever way you look at it , Mjolnir was indeed strengthened beyond its normal level .
Hence the term AMPED .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
In that very scan , Thor admits "that not even sacred Mjolnir can safely contain energies of such incomparable intensity" . Thor has performed godblasts before(including on Juggernaut as well) , but in none of those cases did he need to wrap Mjolnir with the belt of power. This can only mean that this particular godblast was much more powerful than your regular godblast . Mjolnir needed to be physically stronger in order to withstand the kind of force it was about to unleash . What better way to strengthen it , than to wrap the belt of power(which enhances physical strength) around his hammer ?
Whatever way you look at it , Mjolnir was indeed strengthened beyond its normal level .
Hence the term AMPED .

How many times prior to this had Thor done a Godblast? I only count once, vs Galactus and that was in the 60s or something. The Juggernaut incident was after this.

This was one writer's take on it. Irregardless, the Hammer was in no way amped.

Originally posted by zopzop
How many times prior to this had Thor done a Godblast? I only count once, vs Galactus and that was in the 60s or something. The Juggernaut incident was after this.

This was one writer's take on it. Irregardless, the Hammer was in no way amped.

Your words : "Mjolnir was just reinforced..."

Read your own words . Mjolnir was physically strengthened by the belt of power to withstand a higher than normal godblast that it was about to unleash . A blow , which as mere SIDE-EFFECTS , caused planet wide earthquakes , and shattered mountains several miles away . And the brunt of this blast only caused a tiny crack on Exitar's shell .
At the end of the day , whatever way you look at it , Mjolnir was indeed strengthened beyond its normal level .
Hence the term "AMPED" .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Your words : "Mjolnir was just reinforced..."

Read your own words . Mjolnir was physically strengthened by the belt of power to withstand a higher than normal godblast that it was about to unleash . A blow , which as mere SIDE-EFFECTS , caused planet wide earthquakes , and shattered mountains several miles away . And the brunt of this blast only caused a tiny crack on Exitar's shell .
At the end of the day , whatever way you look at it , Mjolnir was indeed strengthened beyond its normal level .
Hence the term "AMPED" .

Higher than normal Godblast? There's degrees now? Well I guess you missed the part where Thor bragged to Juggernaut that

Originally posted by zopzop
Higher than normal Godblast? There's degrees now? Well I guess you missed the part where Thor bragged to Juggernaut that




Did he need to wrap up Mjolnir in the belt of power to do the godbalst against Juggernaut ? Also , did this particular godblast , as mere SIDE-EFFECTS , cause planet-wide earthquakes and shatter mountains across several miles ?
If not , then the Exitar-godblast is the most powerful incarnation of the attack we have seen so far and fully deserves to be called a "higher than normal godblast" .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Did he need to wrap up Mjolnir in the belt of power to do the godbalst against Juggernaut ? Also , did this particular godblast , as mere SIDE-EFFECTS , cause planet-wide earthquakes and shatter mountains across several miles ?
If not , then the Exitar-godblast is the most powerful incarnation of the attack we have seen so far and fully deserves to be called a "higher than normal godblast" .
Huh? When did the Godblast he used against Exitar do that?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Did he need to wrap up Mjolnir in the belt of power to do the godbalst against Juggernaut ? Also , did this particular godblast , as mere SIDE-EFFECTS , cause planet-wide earthquakes and shatter mountains across several miles ?
If not , then the Exitar-godblast is the most powerful incarnation of the attack we have seen so far and fully deserves to be called a "higher than normal godblast" . You are confusing the godblast with the mighty slam on top of Exitar's head. The latter caused mountains TOPS to be destroyed and not the former. With that said, we also must go by writer's intentions. It was intended that Juggs get the same Godblast, as stated in the narrative. Even not, then you still must go astronomically higher to go from barely feeling something to being put a hole in or being cracked.

Originally posted by zopzop
Huh? When did the Godblast he used against Exitar do that?

He is getting it mixed up. He is talking about the time Thor was pounding on the Celestial with Mjlonir.

I think it's pretty obvious that exitar blast was more powerful than the one used on juggs, since after the juggs blast mjolnir was completly fine but in the exitar blast even when reinforced by the belt mjolnir broke from the amount of power channeled thru it. How can u say the blasts were the same when the effects of the blasts were completely different?

Originally posted by Raptor22
I think it's pretty obvious that exitar blast was more powerful than the one used on juggs, since after the juggs blast mjolnir was completly fine but in the exitar blast even when reinforced by the belt mjolnir broke from the amount of power channeled thru it. How can u say the blasts were the same when the effects of the blasts were completely different?
Because different writers have different takes on things.

From Thor's own mouth

Originally posted by zopzop
Because different writers have different takes on things.

From Thor's own mouth
so r u saying the writers take is that the blasts were the same power but mjolnir was so much weaker back when thor faced exitar that even reinforced by the belt it broke even though it didn't break against juggs when not reinforced by the belt? Do u honestly believe that is more likely than the blast just being less powerful also considering the blast is powered by Thors own energy and for the juggs blast he was just recovering from his illness a few panels earlier?

Originally posted by Raptor22
so r u saying the writers take is that the blasts were the same power but mjolnir was so much weaker back when thor faced exitar that even reinforced by the belt it broke even though it didn't break against juggs when not reinforced by the belt? Do u honestly believe that is more likely than the blast just being less powerful also considering the blast is powered by Thors own energy and for the juggs blast he was just recovering from his illness a few panels earlier?
He was having the dizziness and weakness episodes on and off.

By the time he Godblasted Juggernaut he said he was recovered.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9519/regroup.th.jpg

"At last! The delirium flees my mind and strength returns to my limbs."

I'll make this very simple. If you think Juggernaut is more durable than Exitar, you're a moron.

Originally posted by zopzop
Huh? When did the Godblast he used against Exitar do that?

My memory was clouded , so thanks for pointing that out . However , when he did manage to crack open Exitar's dome with a reinforced Mjolnir , nonetheless , the hammer got demolished .
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/thorvscelestials16.jpg/
Again I ask you , when he unleashed the godblast on Juggernaut , did he need to wrap the hammer with the belt of power to strengthen it against the strain of thee blast ?
When the blast was finally hit Juggernaut , did Mjolnir break from the strain ?

Also , it is common knowledge that a tiger can kill a bull , but if you put up a Sumatran tiger against a bull , the tiger will end up getting slaughtered .
A godblast did drive back Galactus , a godblast did indeed "give pause" to a Celestial , and a godblast did stop Juggernaut . However , regarding the different circumstances surrounding each godblast , it is fair to say that the one performed on the Celestial , was the strongest of the 3 .

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
This is one of the most moronic arguments I've ever heard. First, I clearly showed Gaea herself doesn't consider herself a match for Celestials. Second, I can use that same argument about the Living Tribunal, Fulcrum, the phoenix force, etc. Are you telling me that since Gaea "stepped in" and they didn't, she is more powerful than them? I hope you're not that delusional.

Why doesn't Superman just go to Gotham for one day and eliminate all of Batman's villains? Why doesn't Thor get involved in Spiderman's battles? Where is Thor when Carnage is going on a rampage? He could end any storyline with a Spiderman villain in 10 seconds.

That and Greg Pak is moron.

Celestials WERE aware of Chaos King.Get your facts straight.Clueless as usual.

Originally posted by Sabro
Celestials WERE aware of Chaos King.Get your facts straight.Clueless as usual.

Show a scan which states that . That or refer to the issue number in which said statement was made on-panel .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Show a scan which states that . That or refer to the issue number in which said statement was made on-panel .

Well there's a scan in the CK respect thread by Igniz with Celestials and a Watcher in it.And CK also had some Celestials in his army.

Originally posted by Sabro
Well there's a scan in the CK respect thread by Igniz with Celestials and a Watcher in it.And CK also had some Celestials in his army.

Show it .

Exitar

Originally posted by Sabro
Celestials WERE aware of Chaos King.Get your facts straight.Clueless as usual.

Even if you are right, where did I say they weren't aware of him? (I'm the clueless one?)

Originally posted by Sabro
Celestials WERE aware of Chaos King.Get your facts straight.Clueless as usual.
do you have the scan to support this?
because the scan i see in the CK respect thread
states that Mikaboshi existed before the arrival of Galactus
and the Celestials
nothing more

Originally posted by zopzop
He was having the dizziness and weakness episodes on and off.

By the time he Godblasted Juggernaut he said he was recovered.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9519/regroup.th.jpg

"At last! The delirium flees my mind and strength returns to my limbs."
In your face Thor bags!!313

Originally posted by Mr.SunKing
do you have the scan to support this?
because the scan i see in the CK respect thread
states that Mikaboshi existed before the arrival of Galactus
and the Celestials
nothing more

He also claims that CK had some Celestials in his army :

Originally posted by Sabro
Well there's a scan in the CK respect thread by Igniz with Celestials and a Watcher in it.And CK also had some Celestials in his army.

lol @ Celestials in his army

nah..i doubt it

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I'll make this very simple. If you think Juggernaut is more durable than Exitar, you're a moron.

Then comic writers are morons too since Thor penetrated Exitar twice and Juggs never with the same attacks.

Although this is fiction and anything can be made up, comicbook writers just aren't allowed to make a humanoid being more durable than a Celestial. That's against the rules of fiction.

Originally posted by Estacado
In your face Thor bags!!313

"Strength returns to my limbs" is not equivalent to "I am now at full strength".

He could barely stand as he was saying that.

Try again.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
"Strength returns to my limbs" is not equivalent to "I am now at full strength".

He could barely stand as he was saying that.

Try again.
Because he was recovering and admitted as such. Then later when he faces down the Juggernaut with his Godblast this is his exact speech :


So taken all together (the fact that he admitted the weakness episode was over AND the fact that he stated this was the same power that drove back Galactus and gave pause to a Celestial) it was a full power Godblast. Juggernaut didn't even feel it, but it did overcome his unstoppability enchantment.

Originally posted by zopzop
Because he was recovering and admitted as such. Then later when he faces down the Juggernaut with his Godblast this is his exact speech :


So taken all together (the fact that he admitted the weakness episode was over AND the fact that he stated this was the same power that drove back Galactus and gave pause to a Celestial) it was a full power Godblast. Juggernaut didn't even feel it, but it did overcome his unstoppability enchantment.
http://m246.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/Knowsbleed33/Durability/Thor%20412/THOR_1989__412_16.jpg.html?o=0
Yup.
Cain also said that he was about to regain forward momentum if the ground didnt crumble beneath him.

Originally posted by zopzop
Because he was recovering and admitted as such. Then later when he faces down the Juggernaut with his Godblast this is his exact speech :


So taken all together (the fact that he admitted the weakness episode was over AND the fact that he stated this was the same power that drove back Galactus and gave pause to a Celestial) it was a full power Godblast. Juggernaut didn't even feel it, but it did overcome his unstoppability enchantment.

How could it be the SAME godblast as the one that gave pause to a Celestial when that one was amped? That makes no sense.

He's saying it's the same ATTACK, not the same POWER. Proof positive is that he compares it to two different godblasts (Celestial and Galactus) and those two were of different power levels. How can it have the same power as two different attacks of two different power levels?

It's like if a boxer used a haymaker to knock out Mike Tyson, and then is fighting another boxer many years later when he's older and weaker and says, "This is the same punch that knocked out Mike Tyson" as he swings a haymaker. Yeah, it's the same punch, but not the same power.

Also, it could just be a case of simple boasting by Thor, or even trying to intimidate Juggernaut. How can we know.

There's one sure fire way to know.

There is no way the SAME attack that drives away Galactus won't even HURT Juggernaut. That's preposterous.

Originally posted by Glorificus
Theoretically, it should be Exitar, since:

Celestrial > Cyttorak.

Cyttorak > Juggernaut.

But feat-wise, I'm not sure it's that clear-cut.


Where is your proof of this? Cyttorak has never been out of the Crimson Cosmos. If he ever was, it was in the form of a false Avatar, or a true Avatar (a Juggernaut, or a portion of his image).

I would lay odds that the true Cytorrak that is, and always has been imprisoned within the Crimson Cosmos, is on the universal destroyer level and that he would crush most Celestials. He was said to have been able to destroy reality, if he wasn't removed from reality, and placed in a pocket dimension. This screams, I would rip Galactus out of his boots, and mug him power.

Originally posted by Stoic
Where is your proof of this? Cyttorak has never been out of the Crimson Cosmos. If he ever was, it was in the form of a false Avatar, or a true Avatar (a Juggernaut, or a portion of his image).

I would lay odds that the true Cytorrak that is, and always has been imprisoned within the Crimson Cosmos, is on the universal destroyer level and that he would crush most Celestials. He was said to have been able to destroy reality, if he wasn't removed from reality, and placed in a pocket dimension. This screams, I would rip Galactus out of his boots, and mug him power.

Individual Celestials were stated to be able to create/destroy universes as well.

I've always wondered just how powerful Cyttorak is, I don't think Marvel's ever made it clear, but it always seemed to me he was a tier above Odin, maybe on the level of Rune King Thor.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
How could it be the SAME godblast as the one that gave pause to a Celestial when that one was amped? That makes no sense.

He's saying it's the same ATTACK, not the same POWER. Proof positive is that he compares it to two different godblasts (Celestial and Galactus) and those two were of different power levels. How can it have the same power as two different attacks of two different power levels?

It's like if a boxer used a haymaker to knock out Mike Tyson, and then is fighting another boxer many years later when he's older and weaker and says, "This is the same punch that knocked out Mike Tyson" as he swings a haymaker. Yeah, it's the same punch, but not the same power.

Also, it could just be a case of simple boasting by Thor, or even trying to intimidate Juggernaut. How can we know.

There's one sure fire way to know.

There is no way the SAME attack that drives away Galactus won't even HURT Juggernaut. That's preposterous.

Why is it preposterous? Even ASSUMING the time he Godblasted Exitar, it was a somehow amped version of the attack (hence why Mjolnir shattered), the other two times he Godblasted nothing happened to Mjolnir. These blasts were against Galactus and Juggernaut. So two out of three times (total?) he's ever used the Godblast, Mjolnir was fine. At the very LEAST the Godblast he used against Galactus would be at the same level as the Godblast he used against Juggernaut.

Not only didn't Juggernaut retreat, he didn't even feel the damn thing aside from the fact that it was SLOWLY forcing him back and before he could regain momentum the ground shattered beneath his feet.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Individual Celestials were stated to be able to create/destroy universes as well.

I've always wondered just how powerful Cyttorak is, I don't think Marvel's ever made it clear, but it always seemed to me he was a tier above Odin, maybe on the level of Rune King Thor.

A universe pales when compared to an entire reality.

Originally posted by zopzop
He was having the dizziness and weakness episodes on and off.

By the time he Godblasted Juggernaut he said he was recovered.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9519/regroup.th.jpg

"At last! The delirium flees my mind and strength returns to my limbs." I'm not really sure how this helps your case. Thor never said that he was back to full strength or power, just that his mind was clear and his strength was returning, he never says or even implies he's back to full strength. Also u didn't answer my question about what your stance is on "the writers stance" and mjolnir being weaker. Im honestly curious.

im open to having my mind changed or to be proven wrong but so far I've seen nothing that shows the blast was of the same power output as the previous blasts other than it's called the same thing, and peoples assumptioms as to what the writers intentions are, going by nothing more than ambiguous character statements that contradict whats on panel.

Originally posted by Raptor22
I'm not really sure how this helps your case. Thor never said that he was back to full strength or power, just that his mind was clear and his strength was returning, he never says or even implies he's back to full strength. Also u didn't answer my question about what your stance is on "the writers stance" and mjolnir being weaker. Im honestly curious.

im open to having my mind changed or to be proven wrong but so far I've seen nothing that shows the blast was of the same power output as the previous blasts other than it's called the same thing, and peoples assumptioms as to what the writers intentions are, going by nothing more than ambiguous character statements that contradict whats on panel.
Did you read the entire comic? The weakness spells come and go. He didn't Godblast Juggernaut while under the effect of the weakness spell. It's effect passed, he recovered, then he confronted Juggernaut with the Godblast.

He stated HIMSELF that this was the power that drove back Galactus and gave pause to a Celestial. It doesn't get much clearer than that.

Originally posted by zopzop
Did you read the entire comic? The weakness spells come and go. He didn't Godblast Juggernaut while under the effect of the weakness spell. It's effect passed, he recovered, then he confronted Juggernaut with the Godblast.

He stated HIMSELF that this was the power that drove back Galactus and gave pause to a Celestial. It doesn't get much clearer than that. just because the effects passed doesn't mean he was back to full strength, show me where it says he was.

he also used the belt of strength and mjolnir broke from the power, it doesn't get much clearer than that. See I can do it too.

By that logic every time superman uses his power of heat vision it's always the same temp and intensity. So r u saying that that people with poweres can't use those powers at different power levels, and if they did then it would somehow be a different power.

Originally posted by Raptor22
just because the effects passed doesn't mean he was back to full strength, show me where it says he was.

he also used the belt of strength and mjolnir broke from the power, it doesn't get much clearer than that. See I can do it too.

By that logic every time superman uses his power of heat vision it's always the same temp and intensity. So r u saying that that people with poweres can't use those powers at different power levels, and if they did then it would somehow be a different power.
The weakness spells came and went and afterword he was just fine. He even said the weakness spell was over and his strength returned. THEN he went to confront the Juggernaut with his Godblast.

He's only ever used the Godblast 3 times that I can recall. In two of those instances Mjolnir didn't shatter (it "safely contained such a blast". The writer had a different take on the Godblast in the "Alone against the Celestials" arc than the previous and subsequent writers. It's that simple.

The writer of Thor 412 stated CLEARLY :


If you don't understand it by now, you never will.

Originally posted by Raptor22
By that logic every time superman uses his power of heat vision it's always the same temp and intensity..

This is the perfect way to explain it.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
This is the perfect way to explain it.
Except you are leaving out the part where the writer makes it clear that :

We can keep dancing around this statement but it won't make it go away.

Originally posted by zopzop
The weakness spells came and went and afterword he was just fine. He even said the weakness spell was over and his strength returned. THEN he went to confront the Juggernaut with his Godblast.

He's only ever used the Godblast 3 times that I can recall. In two of those instances Mjolnir didn't shatter (it "safely contained such a blast". The writer had a different take on the Godblast in the "Alone against the Celestials" arc than the previous and subsequent writers. It's that simple.

The writer of Thor 412 stated CLEARLY :


If you don't understand it by now, you never will. yes u finally get it. The writer of the celestials arc did have a different take on the god blast, and his take was if Thor wraps the belt of strength around mjolnir he can channel more energy thru it and create a more powerful god blast than previous or future depictions of it. A blast so powerful it breaks mjolir strengthened by the belt. You would really have us dismiss all of that because thor said he's gonna use the same power (minus the belt mind u) and then bragged about it.

And u still haven't answered why mjolnir broke. Was the writer just depicting it as weaker than previous and future versions?

Originally posted by Raptor22
And u still haven't answered why mjolnir broke. Was the writer just depicting it as weaker than previous and future versions?

Lol you guys are crazy. You act as if this stuff actually happened where we can actually gauge which Godblast was more powerful. None of this stuff happened. It is fiction. There is no way to determine which one is greater (because it didn't happen) other than writer's intentions.

The writer clearly intended for the Godblast to be the same as before. The writer's intentions>>>>>>>>>people's personal opinions.

Originally posted by h1a8
Lol you guys are crazy. You act as if this stuff actually happened where we can actually gauge which Godblast was more powerful. None of this stuff happened. It is fiction. There is no way to determine which one is greater (because it didn't happen) other than writer's intentions.

The writer clearly intended for the Godblast to be the same as before. The writer's intentions>>>>>>>>>people's personal opinions. You're wrong. If it were the same then the hammer would have been destroyed. Try and make sense.

I think this theory of the Godsblast it will be the most logical one.

I have seen Thor using godsblast in the past but none broke Mjolnir, IIRC at least.

Oh sh1t I'm on the same side as Quanicakes?, Oh boy is the end of the world!!!

Originally posted by quanchi112
You're wrong. If it were the same then the hammer would have been destroyed. Try and make sense. The writer didn't have the hammer breaking because he wanted to show one Godblast being greater than another. The hammer breaking is inconsequential. The writer's intentions trump that.

Mjolnir, along with comic characters, has variable durability depending on the writer. In one instance Mjolnir is able to block Destroyer's D beams with ease, yet in another instance it gets split in half with an even lessor powered attack.

Comic readers can't take away a writer's written intentions.

Originally posted by h1a8
The writer didn't have the hammer breaking because he wanted to show one Godblast being greater than another. The hammer breaking is inconsequential. The writer's intentions trump that.

Mjolnir, along with comic characters, has variable durability depending on the writer. In one instance Mjolnir is able to block Destroyer's D beams with ease, yet in another instance it gets split in half with an even lessor powered attack.

Comic readers can't take away a writer's written intentions. The writer showed the godblast was that much more intense that it broke his hammer. Thor was also weakened at the time of the Juggs blast. That shows he wasn't at his best. The writers made it clear. You don't make any sense.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The writer showed the godblast was that much more intense that it broke his hammer. Thor was also weakened at the time of the Juggs blast. That shows he wasn't at his best. The writers made it clear. You don't make any sense.
Repeating yourself is not debating. I already proved the Godblast was the same as in the writer's narrative.
Thor regained his strength before attempting the Godblast. Did you read the issue?

Originally posted by h1a8
Repeating yourself is not debating. I already proved the Godblast was the same as in the writer's narrative.
Thor regained his strength before attempting the Godblast. Did you read the issue? No, you didn't. Destroying a reinforced hammer is showing you the mightiest godblast of them all. Being weakened and expecting their power level to be the same is demonstrating being weakened. You need to use common sense and quit being hypocritical.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, you didn't. Destroying a reinforced hammer is showing you the mightiest godblast of them all. Being weakened and expecting their power level to be the same is demonstrating being weakened. You need to use common sense and quit being hypocritical.

Now you are trolling by ignoring direct evidence. It was stated in the comic that Thor regained his strength, yet you keep ignoring it (which is trolling).

Also you are ignoring the variability of durability of Mjolnir from writer to writer.
Explain why Mjlonir is able to block the Destroyer's D beams yet get split in half by a weaker Destroyer blast with another writer.

Originally posted by biensalsa
I think this theory of the Godsblast it will be the most logical one.

I have seen Thor using godsblast in the past but none broke Mjolnir, IIRC at least.

Oh sh1t I'm on the same side as Quanicakes?, Oh boy is the end of the world!!!

Don't worry you're on my side as well .

Originally posted by h1a8
Now you are trolling by ignoring direct evidence. It was stated in the comic that Thor regained his strength, yet you keep ignoring it (which is trolling).

Also you are ignoring the variability of durability of Mjolnir from writer to writer.
Explain why Mjlonir is able to block the Destroyer's D beams yet get split in half by a weaker Destroyer blast with another writer. He wasn't at full strength. Thor was against Exitar which it doesn't really matter since he destroyed his own hammer showing more power was used.

I don't have to explain it. One writer showing the hammer being destroyed is emphasizing the power being used. That was definitely the case against Exitar.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Don't worry you're on my side as well .

Thank God! I thought I was going to the Dark side of the force like Quanicakes

Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't at full strength. Thor was against Exitar which it doesn't really matter since he destroyed his own hammer showing more power was used.

I don't have to explain it. One writer showing the hammer being destroyed is emphasizing the power being used. That was definitely the case against Exitar.

The comic said he regained his strength, not part of his strength. The writer's intentions are clear. Also, are you saying that fluctuations in durability don't exist in comics, especially from writer to writer?


If so then how can you explain low showings and high showings or showings that contradict other showings? Also, how can you explain the writer's comments about Thor hitting Juggs with the same attack that drove back Galactus and made a Celestial pause? What was the writer trying to convey here? What was he trying to show?

Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't at full strength. Thor was against Exitar which it doesn't really matter since he destroyed his own hammer showing more power was used.

I don't have to explain it. One writer showing the hammer being destroyed is emphasizing the power being used. That was definitely the case against Exitar.

This makes perfect sense.

Originally posted by h1a8
The comic said he regained his strength, not part of his strength. The writer's intentions are clear. Also, are you saying that fluctuations in durability don't exist in comics, especially from writer to writer?


If so then how can you explain low showings and high showings or showings that contradict other showings? Also, how can you explain the writer's comments about Thor hitting Juggs with the same attack that drove back Galactus and made a Celestial pause? What was the writer trying to convey here? What was he trying to show? I am saying the hammer was destroyed showed the blast was more powerful. I guess all blasts are equal from writer to writer. You even destroy your own case by your points.

Juggernaut was standing still when Thor hit him with the Godblast and Thor did rant on about becoming one with his uru mallet and a blast the hurled back galactus and gave pause to a mighty celestial. A stationary juggernaut got knocked back a step or 2 but then started to get his forward momentum and the ground gave way and Thor BFR'd him

Originally posted by quanchi112
I am saying the hammer was destroyed showed the blast was more powerful. I guess all blasts are equal from writer to writer. You even destroy your own case by your points. The hammer was written with a lower durability than the other times. You are right though, all blasts aren't necessarily equal UNLESS the writer explicitly states it to be. In this case, it was the writer's intention for the blast to be the same level of power.

Originally posted by h1a8
The hammer was written with a lower durability than the other times. You are right though, all blasts aren't necessarily equal UNLESS the writer explicitly states it to be. In this case, it was the writer's intention for the blast to be the same level of power. Since the hammer was destroyed the blast wasn't of equal power. The hammer being destroyed shows us this.

Originally posted by h1a8
The hammer was written with a lower durability than the other times. You are right though, all blasts aren't necessarily equal UNLESS the writer explicitly states it to be. In this case, it was the writer's intention for the blast to be the same level of power.

Show the panel in which it is stated/implied that Mjolnir was of lower durability .

Originally posted by janus77
cheap arse "Celestial tech" + Hulk >>>> Juggernaut.
. Juggernaut was not hurt at all in that showing, Hulk failed to even scratch him, so if we go by that logic.

Juggernaut durability>>> cheap arse "Celestial tech" + Hulk

Originally posted by Reacting2
Juggernaut was not hurt at all in that showing, Hulk failed to even scratch him, so if we go by that logic.

Juggernaut durability>>> cheap arse "Celestial tech" + Hulk Hulk overpowered his forward momentum.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Here's the scan : I dont see him hurt at all, do you?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Hulk overpowered his forward momentum. yet Hulk failed to Hurt him at all, not one single scratch on him

Originally posted by Reacting2
I dont see him hurt at all, do you?

You should read the whole convo , before trying to sound like a smartass . That scan was in response to another poster's remarks that War never stopped Juggs .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You should read the whole convo , before trying to sound like a smartass . That scan was in response to another poster's remarks that War never stopped Juggs . you fail yet again, Juggernaut was not Hurt, so your case is moot

Originally posted by Reacting2
you fail yet again, Juggernaut was not Hurt, so your case us moot

Again , instead of trying to fail at sounding like a smartass , read the whole convo . That scan wasn't posted to show that Juggernaut was hurt . Merely stopped for a brief time before being flung away .

Originally posted by quanchi112
Since the hammer was destroyed the blast wasn't of equal power. The hammer being destroyed shows us this.


Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Show the panel in which it is stated/implied that Mjolnir was of lower durability .

The consequence of your logic would imply that objects and characters never have variable durability in comics.

If one blast was shown to destroy something and another was shown to not destroy it then we can conclude that either:
1. The first blast has a greater power than the second blast. Or
2. The object's durability changed.

But since the writer stated the blasts to be the same it kills 1. and leaves us with 2.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Again , instead of trying to fail at sounding like a smartass , read the whole convo . That scan wasn't posted to show that Juggernaut was hurt . Merely stopped for a brief time before being flung away . and.... this is still irrelevant to this thread

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Again , instead of trying to fail at sounding like a smartass , read the whole convo . That scan wasn't posted to show that Juggernaut was hurt . Merely stopped for a brief time before being flung away . What does that have to do with this thread??

it only proves that the celestial tech+hulk roughly equals thors god blast in kinetic force

Has nothing to do with damaging juggs

Originally posted by h1a8

It doesn't have to state but show it. Obviously it was the same blast because the writer said so. Thus the durability of Mjolnir had to be lower than the other writer who written it to be.
Unless and until its been stated on-panel that it was of lower durability , then it's still an assumtion on your part . The writer , through Thor's words , merely mentioned that this was a particular attack that Thor had used against Galactus and a Celestial(with varying degrees of success) . If you know , then an attack can be of different intensity . Thor usually holds back against denizens of Midguard . Go figure .
Originally posted by h1a8

The consequence of your logic would imply that objects and characters never have variable durability in comics.
Do you have any evidence to suggest that the uru metal with which the hammer was reforged , was stronger than regular uru ? Or has there been any on-panel indication that after the Exitar incident , Odin strengthened Mjolnir , and gave it a durability boost ? Until and unless on-panel evidence is provided for these questions , we have no choice but to believe that Mjolnir was of the same durability in ALL 3 instances(against Galactus , Exitar and Juggernaut) .

Originally posted by Reacting2
and.... this is still irrelevant to this thread

So was your attempt to sound like a smartass . It was only in response to a particular claim made by another poster . Read the whole convo .

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
What does that have to do with this thread??

it only proves that the celestial tech+hulk roughly equals thors god blast in kinetic force

Has nothing to do with damaging juggs

Precisely . It was merely in response to your claim that War never stopped Juggs . Reacting2 unnecessarily brought up this issue .

Originally posted by Reacting2
yet Hulk failed to Hurt him at all, not one single scratch on him Hulk overpowered his enchantment. War easily tossed him around. Doing these two things leads me to believe he could have hurt/killed him.

Originally posted by h1a8
The consequence of your logic would imply that objects and characters never have variable durability in comics.

If one blast was shown to destroy something and another was shown to not destroy it then we can conclude that either:
1. The first blast has a greater power than the second blast. Or
2. The object's durability changed.

But since the writer stated the blasts to be the same it kills 1. and leaves us with 2. The blast wasn't the same due to the hammer being destroyed. Never did the writer say the hammer was weaker. It in fact was reinforced by his belt of strength. You need to read comics. You have never had a legit point in 5 plus years.

Originally posted by quanchi112


The blast wasn't the same due to the hammer being destroyed. Never did the writer say the hammer was weaker. It in fact was reinforced by his belt of strength. You need to read comics. You have never had a legit point in 5 plus years. Stop trolling Quan and address my points. Repeating the same thing and not addressing another's points isn't debating but trolling. Stop it.

This is the point.

If one blast was shown to destroy something and another was shown to not destroy it then we can conclude that either:
1. The first blast has a greater power than the second blast. Or
2. The object's durability changed.

But since the writer stated the blasts to be the same it kills 1. and leaves us with 2.

Originally posted by h1a8
Stop trolling Quan and address my points. Repeating the same thing and not addressing another's points isn't debating but trolling. Stop it.

This is the point.

If one blast was shown to destroy something and another was shown to not destroy it then we can conclude that either:
1. The first blast has a greater power than the second blast. Or
2. The object's durability changed.

But since the writer stated the blasts to be the same it kills 1. and leaves us with 2. The same writer didn't handle both blasts. You need to prove the objects durability changed. The blast obviously did. If you think all godblasts are equal you need to prove it. That's your claim.

First Thor never said he was back at full strength. If u want to be technical about it he said his mind is clear and strength has returned to his limbs, not that he's at full strength/power, and not that all his godly energies have returned, and unless the power of the God blast comes only from his mind and limbs, then the statement is moot.

Second what evidence is there that it was the writers intention that mjolnir broke because it was weaker as opposed to the blast being more powerful, u know actual evidence, not just personal opinion.

Originally posted by Raptor22
First Thor never said he was back at full strength. If u want to be technical about it he said his mind is clear and strength has returned to his limbs, not that he's at full strength/power, and not that all his godly energies have returned, and unless the power of the God blast comes only from his mind and limbs, then the statement is moot.

Second what evidence is there that it was the writers intention that mjolnir broke because it was weaker as opposed to the blast being more powerful, u know actual evidence, not just personal opinion.

It's not about being technical but about understanding the writer's intention through context. It's 5th grade reading material here. The writer was was trying to show that Thor was back. But that is moot since the writer explicitly stated the blast to be the same as before. The writer has the power to do this, not the reader.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The same writer didn't handle both blasts. You need to prove the objects durability changed. The blast obviously did. If you think all godblasts are equal you need to prove it. That's your claim.
I just proved that the durability changed. Here it is again:

If one blast was shown to destroy something and another was shown to not destroy it then we can conclude that either:
1. The first blast has a greater power than the second blast. Or
2. The object's durability changed.

There is no relevant 3rd option. If you disagree then give it.
But since the writer stated the blasts to be the same it kills 1. and leaves us with 2.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
How could it be the SAME godblast as the one that gave pause to a Celestial when that one was amped? That makes no sense.



Also, it could just be a case of simple boasting by Thor, or even trying to intimidate Juggernaut. How can we know.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Unless and until its been stated on-panel that it was of lower durability , then it's still an assumtion on your part . The writer , through Thor's words , merely mentioned that this was a particular attack that Thor had used against Galactus and a Celestial(with varying degrees of success) . If you know , then an attack can be of different intensity . Thor usually holds back against denizens of Midguard . Go figure .

****Do you have any evidence to suggest that the uru metal with which the hammer was reforged , was stronger than regular uru ? Or has there been any on-panel indication that after the Exitar incident , Odin strengthened Mjolnir , and gave it a durability boost ? Until and unless on-panel evidence is provided for these questions , we have no choice but to believe that Mjolnir was of the same durability in ALL 3 instances(against Galactus , Exitar and Juggernaut) .
Your points fail because :

A) The writer of Thor 412 made it clear -


B) On panel Thor said the weakness spell had passed and already he was regaining his strength

C) In the rematch, Thor again could not hurt Juggernaut at all and didn't even attempt a Godblast, he resorted to negating his force field and STILL couldn't beat him and had to resort to a BFR (just like the first time).


****After Mjolnir shattered during that "Alone Against the Celestials" arc, it was the Celestials that restored it.

Originally posted by zopzop
Your points fail because :

A) The writer of Thor 412 made it clear -


B) On panel Thor said the weakness spell had passed and already he was regaining his strength

C) In the rematch, Thor again could not hurt Juggernaut at all and didn't even attempt a Godblast, he resorted to negating his force field and STILL couldn't beat him and had to resort to a BFR (just like the first time).


****After Mjolnir shattered during that "Alone Against the Celestials" arc, it was the Celestials that restored it.

Do you agree that the belt amped the godblast? If not, why did he do it?