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Now barring external amps. Which means no Wanda w/Life force, or Jean w/Phoenix. In retrospect, who are the top 5 most powerful mutants, and why.

Here are mine.

1 - Marquis of Death
2 - Mad James Jaspers
3 - Adult Franklin Richards
4 - True Legion (David Haller)
5 - Jamie Bradock

1 - Marquis of Death
2 - Mad James Jaspers
3/4 - Adult Franklin Richards
3/4 - True Legion (David Haller)
5 - Jamie Bradock

Pretty much, though I'd personally transpose your 1 & 2, and possibly make an argument for Prodigy at #4 seeing as he was able to copy the power of the LT, bumping Legion to 5 and Jamie to 6 (unless you'd consider his power copying ability to be 'external amping').

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Pretty much, though I'd personally transpose your 1 & 2, and possibly make an argument for Prodigy at #4 seeing as he was able to copy the power of the LT, bumping Legion to 5 and Jamie to 6 (unless you'd consider his power copying ability to be 'external amping').

Was Protege even a mutant ?

If I'm remembering correctly, yes. It's been a pretty long time since I've read the old GotG though.

Vance Astro was boss.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
If I'm remembering correctly, yes. It's been a pretty long time since I've read the old GotG though.

Vance Astro was boss.

He should be listed as #1 then .

Originally posted by "Id"
Now barring external amps. Which means no Wanda w/Life force, or Jean w/Phoenix. In retrospect, who are the top 5 most powerful mutants, and why.

Here are mine.

1 - Marquis of Death
2 - Mad James Jaspers
3 - Adult Franklin Richards
4 - True Legion (David Haller)
5 - Jamie Bradock

This pretty much.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
He should be listed as #1 then .

Not necessarily. While he can copy the powers of his opponents (up to and including the LT), it was shown that just copying the powers of someone doesn't make you superior and he got Cellestial Muzzled by Scathan. If he were to copy the powers of the top 3 on the list the best he could score would likely be a draw.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Not necessarily. While he can copy the powers of his opponents (up to and including the LT), it was shown that just copying the powers of someone doesn't make you superior and he got Cellestial Muzzled by Scathan. If he were to copy the powers of the top 3 on the list the best he could score would likely be a draw.

Lets not get into the Scathan argument . The fact that he could duplicate the power of the top dog among the Abstracts , puts him #1 in my book .

Originally posted by "Id"
Now barring external amps. Which means no Wanda w/Life force, or Jean w/Phoenix. In retrospect, who are the top 5 most powerful mutants, and why.

Here are mine.

1 - Marquis of Death
2 - Mad James Jaspers
3 - Adult Franklin Richards
4 - True Legion (David Haller)
5 - Jamie Bradock MoD ontop? you must be trolling us

Squirrel Girl has to be on the list.

So the x gene would have to be present for the character to be considered a mutant? I didn't know Franklin had it...lol. How about Genis Vell?

Protege isn't a mutant methinks.

1. Squirrel Girl
2. Who cares?

1. Cyclops
2. Emma Frost
3. Namor
4. Magik
5. Colossus

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
1. Cyclops
2. Emma Frost
3. Namor
4. Magik
5. Colossus

This, except I would put Wolverine at # 4 and Colossus # 6.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
1. Cyclops
2. Emma Frost
3. Namor
4. Magik
5. Colossus

Makes me sick seeing seeing a magnificent bastard like Namor being associated with damn dirty muties.

Him being a mutant among his own seperate species doesn't count to me.

Else Thanos should be mentioned more often as a mutie.

Squirrel Girl
HOM Wanda
MJJ/Adult Franklin/Hyperstorm

Protege was manufactured to be the accelerated potential of humanoids
which was to become God.

Therefore, he was a cosmic being, not mortal, human or mutant.

As for the list:

HOM Wanda
Jim Jaspers
Jamie Braddock
Adult Franklin
True Legion


MoD has some wonderful teleportation abilities but in the end,
his major feats are via alleged stories,
he was defeated by a simple spacial/temporal disruption
caused by the Human Torch who instead of Nova, had his flame go to "Planck" temperature.

While that's extremely hot, hot enough to breakdown space-time,
it's still not hotter than a Gamma ray burst, which is the result of a hyper-nova.
Hyper-Nova = the explosion of a super massive Star, 100 times or larger than our Sun)

*note* The 2011 Handbooks say nothing about Marquis controlling Eternity,
or any of the Abstracts,
or even bringing them to battle.

It does mention them pitting super-heroes and villains to fight,
but that's it.

It also clarifies that traveling the Omniverse for all those years,
and destroying those many realities is just as well "alleged" stories.

Then when you see what it takes to weaken this Marquis sufficiently for Doom to vaporize him,
there's not much room for spins.

------------------------------------------

Bottom line, other than causing a Star to go supernova,
does anyone have anything illustrating Clyde/Marquis doing anything more?

If every thing's based on verbal claims,
and summoning Galactus,
and making a Star go nova
and teleporting heroes/villains across dimensions, is the action.

What has bradock done without his sword and amulet

Btw , HoM Wanda can't possibly be used here .

1. Squirrel Girl
2. Everyone else

HOM Wanda
Jim Jaspers
Jamie Braddock
Adult Franklin
True Legio

Iceman.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

I think that that particular incident was one of the most logical
explanation of how to stop a reality warper . What better way than
to distort the fabric of reality itself , to disrupt a reality warpers
powers .
But the reality warper is the one that's supposed to be controlling reality.

So basically that sounds like a case of my reality warping is > your reality warping.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Also , current cosmological models postulate the Planck temperature as the highest possible temperature . Here's an article : http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/absolute-hot.html
There's different opinions on the matter out there.

I saw both sides giving good reasons.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller

And as far as black-holes are concerned , sure , herald-tiers can
tank a comic book black-hole .
A RL black-hole on the other hand would be an entirely different
story .No herald-tier would fly into it not get spaghettified . The only
way to escape it would be through negative matter(matter with
negative mass) , but then the gravitational repulsion would be so
massive , it would likely shatter the object .

Well, good thing we're dealing with comic books then.

I have examples of much lesser powers withstanding the insides of a black hole.

Heck, didn't Superman hold one in his hands?

Originally posted by Mr Master
But the reality warper is the one that's supposed to be controlling reality.

So basically that sounds like a case of my reality warping is > your reality warping.

Or it could be that by breaking the very fabric of what they warp , one can (temporarily?) disable their powers . Just an opinion .
Maybe in a billion years when we can actually make a device which has the ability to warp reality to human whims , we'll find out .

Originally posted by Mr Master

There's different opinions on the matter out there.

I saw both sides giving good reasons.

Well , the general consensus among physicists is that Planck temperature is the highest possible temperature according to current cosmological models , so high in fact that the laws of general relativity(which consist of most of the laws of physics as pertains to a cosmic scale) break down at it .

Originally posted by Mr Master

Well, good thing we're dealing with comic books then.

I have examples of much lesser powers withstanding the insides of a black hole.

Heck, didn't Superman hold one in his hands?
Right you are(although I can't confirm the Superman incident) .

Yes, Superman held one.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Or it could be that by breaking the very fabric of what they warp ,
one can (temporarily?) disable their powers . Just an opinion .

I see what you're saying, although I still think a high-end reality warper,
wouldn't allow, or actually couldn't get stomped by reality breaking down around them,
because when Molecule Man and Beyonder battled
Reality ... twisted, broke and everything in-between,
and they were fine still fighting.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/12104513_physics_shattered.jpg

"A battle in which the Laws of Physics are tortured beyond recognition ..

... and eventually shattered"

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Well , the general consensus among physicists is that Planck temperature is the
highest possible temperature according to current cosmological models , so high in
fact that the laws of general relativity(which consist of most of the laws of physics as
pertains to a cosmic scale) break down at it ..
Space-time, the laws of physics breakdown in the center of a Black Hole as well.

That aside ...

Still, it was this that weakened Marquis enough to be obliterated by Doom's blast.

As you can see above Cube beings are doing just that and it's not affecting them negatively in the slightest.

You seem like a debater that's been honest so far. (wrong or right)

Surely you must see now how Marquis would not contend even with a Cube being.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I see what you're saying, although I still think a high-end reality warper,
wouldn't allow, or actually couldn't get by reality breaking down around them,
because when Molecule Man and Beyonder battled
Reality, twisted, broke and everything in-between,
and they were fine still fighting.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/12104513_physics_shattered.jpg

"A battle in which the Laws of Physics are tortured beyond recognition ..

... and eventually shattered"

The scenario I was talking about was in regard to a RL reality warper. And my discussion centered around the fabric of reality , not reality itself .
But anyways , as I said before , someday when humanity manages to build a device capable of modifying reality to the whims of human beings , we may get our answer(although I doubt either of us will be alive till then) .
Until then we can speculate and discuss as much as we want , but I doubt we'll come to a consensus . Maybe you are right . Maybe I am right . What difference does it make ?

Originally posted by Mr Master

Space-time, the laws of physics breakdown in the center of a Black Hole as well.

That aside ...

Still, it was this that weakened Marquis enough to be obliterated by Doom's blast.
Marquis had already been weakened because of his "inter-dimensional workout" with his younger counterpart .
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0452/ff_569_19


Originally posted by Mr Master

As you can see above Cube beings are doing just that and it's not affecting them negatively in the slightest.

You seem like a debater that's been honest so far. (wrong or right)

Surely you must see now how Marquis would not contend even with a Cube being.
"Let's agree to disagree" - (Boris the Animal , MIB3) .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Marquis had already been weakened because of his "inter-dimensional workout" with his younger counterpart .
http://h.imagehost.org/view/0452/ff_569_19

Pretty much.

His inter-denominational war, against himself taxed him. The next logical step, was to server his tie, from all-space.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Makes me sick seeing seeing a magnificent bastard like Namor being associated with damn dirty muties.

Him being a mutant among his own seperate species doesn't count to me.

Else Thanos should be mentioned more often as a mutie.

Namor is a mix breed, half human.

Cyclops, given his lineage and his status.

MoD
MJJ
Franklin Richards
True Legion
Shaman Nate Grey

MoD-battling his other counter part and summoning abstracts
to battle his younger counterpart, seems really impressive IMO, traveling the multiverse with various other feats



Mad Jim Jaspers- The fact that he was a deemed
an omniversal threat and could only be killed
by a plot deviced, twisted 616 to his liking, essentially invincible within his own warp

Franklin Richards- Destroyed 2 celestials plus summoned galactus to finish the 3rd, pwned black bolt
created his ownn pocket universe as a child, destined to become a cosmic entity, i would assume if he already hasn't, he may surpass the celestials in power

True Legion- creating AoX and stashing 616 in a box
his multiples personalities add to a plethora of powers, hair cut is so stupid its dope, awesome potential and apparently surpasses Xavier in telepathy

Shaman Nate Grey- A top tier telekinetc/telepath, raw, energies so massive it was tearing his body apart prior his x gene insginia, rivaled the phoenix in terms of power, such fine control of his body to the sub-atomic level, a multiversal traveler, merged various personalities into one being through the multiverse, ascended to existing as pure psionic energy, ability to utilize "planck length"could also copy and psionic based abilities he encountered, and later was revealed to possess reality warping abilties, which makes me wonder to how powerful that ability could become if he utilized it more

Originally posted by Mindset
Iceman.

I was thinking about Bobby too. His theoretical highest would make him close to top 5 maybe? Absolute zero and stopping the movement of all matter or somethign like that?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Protege was manufactured to be the accelerated potential of humanoids
which was to become God.

Therefore, he was a cosmic being, not mortal, human or mutant.

As for the list:

HOM Wanda
Jim Jaspers
Jamie Braddock
Adult Franklin
True Legion


MoD has some wonderful teleportation abilities but in the end,
his major feats are via alleged stories,
he was defeated by a simple spacial/temporal disruption
caused by the Human Torch who instead of Nova, had his flame go to "Planck" temperature.

While that's extremely hot, hot enough to breakdown space-time,
it's still not hotter than a Gamma ray burst, which is the result of a hyper-nova.
Hyper-Nova = the explosion of a super massive Star, 100 times or larger than our Sun)

*note* The 2011 Handbooks say nothing about Marquis controlling Eternity,
or any of the Abstracts,
or even bringing them to battle.

It does mention them pitting super-heroes and villains to fight,
but that's it.

It also clarifies that traveling the Omniverse for all those years,
and destroying those many realities is just as well "alleged" stories.

Then when you see what it takes to weaken this Marquis sufficiently for Doom to vaporize him,
there's not much room for spins.

------------------------------------------

Bottom line, other than causing a Star to go supernova,
does anyone have anything illustrating Clyde/Marquis doing anything more?

If every thing's based on verbal claims,
and summoning Galactus,
and making a Star go nova
and teleporting heroes/villains across dimensions, is the action.



Is it just me or has this guy basically become a reliable versus thread discussion ender.

Whenever he says someone wins, I believe him. Does anyone else think this?

I disagree. Leaving Squirrel Girl off his list destroys all credibility

Originally posted by khalidax
Is it just me or has this guy basically become a reliable versus thread discussion ender.

Whenever he says someone wins, I believe him. Does anyone else think this? No.

Unless he agrees with me, then yes.

Hulk
The Green Scar
The Strongest One there is
Bruce Banner when you make him angry. And you wouldn't like him, when he's angry
The Worldbreaker

Originally posted by Mr Master
Protege was manufactured to be the accelerated potential of humanoids
which was to become God.

Therefore, he was a cosmic being, not mortal, human or mutant.

As for the list:

HOM Wanda
Jim Jaspers
Jamie Braddock
Adult Franklin
True Legion


MoD has some wonderful teleportation abilities but in the end,
his major feats are via alleged stories,
he was defeated by a simple spacial/temporal disruption
caused by the Human Torch who instead of Nova, had his flame go to "Planck" temperature.

While that's extremely hot, hot enough to breakdown space-time,
it's still not hotter than a Gamma ray burst, which is the result of a hyper-nova.
Hyper-Nova = the explosion of a super massive Star, 100 times or larger than our Sun)

*note* The 2011 Handbooks say nothing about Marquis controlling Eternity,
or any of the Abstracts,
or even bringing them to battle.

It does mention them pitting super-heroes and villains to fight,
but that's it.

It also clarifies that traveling the Omniverse for all those years,
and destroying those many realities is just as well "alleged" stories.

Then when you see what it takes to weaken this Marquis sufficiently for Doom to vaporize him,
there's not much room for spins.

------------------------------------------

Bottom line, other than causing a Star to go supernova,
does anyone have anything illustrating Clyde/Marquis doing anything more?

If every thing's based on verbal claims,
and summoning Galactus,
and making a Star go nova
and teleporting heroes/villains across dimensions, is the action.

Have you even read the MoD story line... Handbooks don't mention everything... pick up an actual comic book.

Originally posted by nikbackm
Namor is a mix breed, half human.

Yes I know.

But being a hybrid is not the same as being a mutant.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Makes me sick seeing seeing a magnificent bastard like Namor being associated with damn dirty muties.

Him being a mutant among his own seperate species doesn't count to me.

Else Thanos should be mentioned more often as a mutie.
nah
i believe he actually does possess an x-gene
which he inherited from his human side
therefore making him a mutant (Winged feet)
despite his hybrid nature

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Hulk
The Green Scar
The Strongest One there is
Bruce Banner when you make him angry. And you wouldn't like him, when he's angry
The Worldbreaker

You forgot the Gamma Father.

Originally posted by Uriel005

Have you even read the MoD story line...
Handbooks don't mention everything... pick up an actual comic book.
Marvel: 1985 (mini)

Fantastic Four Adventures (1 issue)

Wolverine 2003 (one-shot)

Fantastic Four: Master of Doom (562-569)


I got em all, read em all, am I missing something,
where the MoD actually does something besides teleporting heroes and villains into his realm?

Besides making a star go super-nova?

Besides summoning Galactus? (impressive)

-----------------------


Oh yea, you mean the ambiguous panel where he states he's "seen realms" where Eternity, Love and Hate are,
but never call them his "his" Gods, like he said "his heroes/villains"

Anyway,
not a single cameo of any Skyfather or better is depicted in the battle scene next page.

The only logical answer here is Doom.

While he may not be a mutant in the conventional sense, I have no doubt that he could be if he wanted to. Therefore, he wins.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Hulk
The Green Scar
The Strongest One there is
Bruce Banner when you make him angry. And you wouldn't like him, when he's angry
The Worldbreaker
Serious question, was it ever implied/insinuated that Banner is a mutant?

I seem to recall something vaguely so.


Anyway, top 5 most powerful mutants:
5. Wolverine
4. Wolverine
3. Wolverine
2. Wolverine
1. Wolverine

maybe 2 and 3 should swap places, but it's close.

Originally posted by Galan007
The only logical answer here is Doom.

While he may not be a mutant in the conventional sense, I have no doubt that he could be if he wanted to. Therefore, he wins.
Doom is Wolverine?

Originally posted by Galan007
The only logical answer here is Doom.

While he may not be a mutant in the conventional sense, I have no doubt that he could be if he wanted to. Therefore, he wins.

Doom isn't good enough to beat the Sakaarson.

Originally posted by Galan007
The only logical answer here is Doom.

While he may not be a mutant in the conventional sense, I have no doubt that he could be if he wanted to. Therefore, he wins.
... This had me smiling for a few minutes.

Originally posted by janus77
Serious question, was it ever implied/insinuated that Banner is a mutant?

I seem to recall something vaguely so.


Anyway, top 5 most powerful mutants:
5. Wolverine
4. Wolverine
3. Wolverine
2. Wolverine
1. Wolverine

maybe 2 and 3 should swap places, but it's close.

The Breaker of Worlds maul your top 5.

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
The Breaker of Worlds maul your top 5.
five letters: SNIKT

Originally posted by janus77
five letters: SNIKT

Five letters: SMASH

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
Five letters: SMASH
rock<paper<lizard<spock<smash<SNIKT

Originally posted by janus77
rock<paper<lizard<spock<smash<SNIKT


And then, SMASH!

Originally posted by Bouboumaster
And then, SMASH!
no, just more and more SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!!

Originally posted by janus77
no, just more and more SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!! SNIKT!!

Do you know who is also above Wolverine?

The Green Goliath.

Originally posted by "Id"
Now barring external amps. Which means no Wanda w/Life force, or Jean w/Phoenix. In retrospect, who are the top 5 most powerful mutants, and why.

Here are mine.

1 - Marquis of Death
2 - Mad James Jaspers
3 - Adult Franklin Richards
4 - True Legion (David Haller)
5 - Jamie Bradock

I like this list. But, just thinking that Hyperstorm or Mutant Alpha might deserve mention.

IMO, after Hulk and everyone I named, here's what I think are the 5 most powerful mutants:

1- HOM Wanda
2- Mad Jim Jasper
3- Jaimie Braddock
4- Marquis of Death
5- Full potential Franklin Richards

Originally posted by Mr Master
Marvel: 1985 (mini)

Fantastic Four Adventures (1 issue)

Wolverine 2003 (one-shot)

Fantastic Four: Master of Doom (562-569)


I got em all, read em all, am I missing something,
where the MoD actually does something besides teleporting heroes and villains into his realm?

Besides making a star go super-nova?

Besides summoning Galactus? (impressive)

-----------------------


Oh yea, you mean the ambiguous panel where he states he's "seen realms" where Eternity, Love and Hate are,
but never call them his "his" Gods, like he said "his heroes/villains"

Anyway,
not a single cameo of any Skyfather or better is depicted in the battle scene next page. that wasn't summoning dummkopf. It was a metaphysical representation of a conflict between the MoD and his younger self. If it was a summoning then there would be a lot of dead characters as there was no one to resurrect them afterwards. So the MoD and Clyde's fight was them creating their champions... also we know it was a real fight because Reed was able to absorb real energy from the fight and redistribute it for seconds to the FF4... Oh and MoD is pretty casual at destroying universes when he actually does it and his multi-millenial sojourn is confirmed and he was pwning every universe he came across while he was at it. So all things considered I'm fairly certain he's come accross some pretty up their individuals trying to stop him and I'm pretty sure Eternity of the other universes would just sit around to be destroyed.

MoD comes it at number 1 on my list over Braddock, Jim and others. We'll never know 100% certainty how strong he was but considering it took himself, the combined power of their fight in the ff4 pummeling away at him and Doom who had been learning from him for a rather lengthy period of time.

And still this:

1 - Marquis of Death
2 - Mad James Jaspers
3 - Adult Franklin Richards
4 - True Legion (David Haller)
5 - Jamie Bradock

We will be getting more info on Legion in the incoming months. On the other hand. If I wanted to extend the list, to the next 6-10.

6 - Darwin/Deadly Genesis Vulcan
Near limitless evolving ability, enough to usurp Hel's power.
7 - Proteus
Massive reality warping powers.
8 - Wanda
Hex magic is broken, and big enough to endanger the planet.
9 - Hope Summers
Can mimic any mutant power, or take control of them.
10 - New Sun
Massive energy manipulation, killed of all the known hero's in his reality.

1. Mad Jim Jaspers
2. Adult Franklin
3. Legion
4. Marquis of Death
5. Mr. M

Reason why Wanda isn't there is because of that phoenix-like entity in children's crusade altering her powers. Including her would mean including Jean Grey as well who doesn't seem that special base level.

extra

6. Proteus
7. Nate Grey
8. Cable (full potential)/ Stryfe
9. Gabriel Summers
10. Kid Omega
11. Apocalypse

Sans children crusade. In the whole, AvX fiasco. When Wanda collided with Hope. The world briefly turned into Lego Blocks.

That's very good and all but remember that hope mimiced Wanda's power (which hope normally amplifies) so we really don't know whether it's 1/2 or 1/3 or whatever percentage was Wanda's contribution to that feat. While impressive, that's waaay beyond her norm and what she's normally capable of drawing. That could be a high end feat but on average, she's not doing any planet wide stuff atm.

1 - Marquis of Death
2 - True/Complete Legion
3 - Mad James Jaspers
4 - Adult Franklin Richards
5 - Jamie Bradock

For the purposes of this thread, are you considering child Franklin a completely different character than adult Franklin? If so, I'd put him over Jamie, personally...

6 - Proteus
7 - Onslaught (Minus Nate/Franklin)
8 - Shaman X-Man
9 - New Sun
10 - Vulcan (Deadly Genesis)

Originally posted by Galan007
For the purposes of this thread, are you considering child Franklin a completely different character than adult Franklin? If so, I'd put him over Jamie, personally...
Well I consider Child and Adult Franklin the same person. With the feats done and to be done canon to his older self.

Otherwise I have him higher too.

Originally posted by janus77
rock<paper<lizard<spock<smash<SNIKT


THING>Groot>Godzilla>Spock>Smasher>Daken

Originally posted by Tony Stark
THING>Groot>Godzilla>Spock>Smasher>Daken Godzilla solos.

Originally posted by "Id"
Well I consider Child and Adult Franklin the same person. With the feats done and to be done canon to his older self.

Otherwise I have him higher too. I agree.

Case in point: child Franklin creating(what he perceived as) the Nexus of realities, along with ALL of the pocket realities within it:
http://imgur.com/Ciahha4

And as this scan confirms, there were "countless" realities:
http://i.imgur.com/OfklpGs.jpg


The kid is an absolute beast.

Adult Franklin Richards
Mad James Jaspers
Marquis of Death
True/Complete Legion
Jamie Bradock

Franklin

1 - Marquis of Death
2 - True/Complete Legion
3 - Mad James Jaspers
4 - Adult Franklin Richards
5 - Jamie Bradock
6 - Proteus
7 - Onslought
8 - Shaman X-Man
9 - New Sun
10 - Hyperstorm
11 - Cable
12 - Apocalypse
13 - Cassandra Nova
14 - Vulcan
15 - Mr M

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Pretty much, though I'd personally transpose your 1 & 2, and possibly make an argument for Prodigy at #4 seeing as he was able to copy the power of the LT, bumping Legion to 5 and Jamie to 6 (unless you'd consider his power copying ability to be 'external amping').

If we are counting Protege as a mutant, then is not an argument, he is #1 and it's not even close.

Originally posted by Epicurus
Lets not get into the Scathan argument . The fact that he could duplicate the power of the top dog among the Abstracts , puts him #1 in my book .

Indeed.

But we know Protege wasn't counted as mutant, at least not in such manner as Wanda, Franklin etc... and if not counting HOM Wanda and Phoenix:

1.) Mad Jim Jaspers
2.) Jaimie Braddock
3.) Franklin Richards

Id like to mention some powerful Mutants that nobody in this thread talked about (not that i have seen, at least).

Wanda's Children (Thomas & William) - Abstract level:

Avengers Forever v1 #8: They become powerful enough to challenge Eternity (alternate), and "rock the cosmos":

http://i.imgur.com/aEYdDmQ.jpg?1

2006 bio (Immortus' entry):

http://i.imgur.com/mJ0apgM.jpg?1

Although they're technically constructs, it was confirmed back in Avengers West Coast #52, that they possess mutant energies:

http://i.imgur.com/iGLeUXs.jpg?1

---------------------------

Alfie O'Meagan - Universal-level:

Nth Man #16: Alfie gives John his own abilities with which he defeats M'Gubgub (a universal being) by collapsing M'Gubgub in on himself

http://i.imgur.com/ZGEsfq6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/p6qKkVv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MA9sFut.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/o5uA7BG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QOgKjhx.jpg

Just so we know how powerful M'Gubgub is: He eats Galaxies for breakfast:

http://i.imgur.com/MXg9NGv.jpg

Nth Man #14: His full form blocks half of the galaxy:

http://i.imgur.com/8ezG6Af.jpg

A being who dwarfs planet and has seen the death of universeS, flees when he hears the name of M'Gubgub:

http://i.imgur.com/FFsvkEl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fOirCdt.jpg

---------------------------

Arcadia from X-Force - (Unknown-level, she definitely has reality warping abilities; and her power is implied to be universal, but she needed a certain stipulation to become a multiversal threat).

X-Force v1 #93: Rylor says that Moonstar has now the ability to tap into infinite universal energies (courtesy of Arcadia, back in issue #84, it was her who gave Moonstar that power):

http://i.imgur.com/5TPBZFu.jpg?1

Arcadia transformers into the "Queen of the Star Swords" (an evil version of herself). Those are from issue #100

The Queen creates the Cathedral:

http://i.imgur.com/uh6yabh.jpg

This Cathedral actually becomes a nexus point to all the infinite alternate realities:

http://i.imgur.com/r03bZcl.jpg?1

And all the alternate universes/realities started to merge:

http://i.imgur.com/QEd8Xjy.jpg?1

---------------------------

Scotty Summer from Mutant-X - Close to Universal-level.

Defeating the Goblin Entity with a single gesture/thought (Mutant-X #12/#32):

http://i.imgur.com/fu62LfJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/O7o5rah.jpg?1

There are quite several more, im having a hard time remembering them considering that they usually appear in one story (or a few). Although, most of them are mutants who possess reality warping abilities on a limited scale (like Proteus). But those are far from top tiers like MJJ, Jamie, Franklin, etc...

Originally posted by "Id"
3 - Mad James Jaspers
5 - Jamie Bradock

Does your ranking take into account that MJJ already spread his warp (where he has complete control), or not?

Makes a difference, imo. In a neutral ground, id give Jamie the edge, considering he empowered an alternate counterpart who casually warped a universe, and was also able to easily play with several realities (something MJJ can't do instantly, his warp takes time). Hell, id give Jamie a good chance even against MJJ with his warp (but eventually, the latter would win, imo), given that the Fury was resisting his reality warping abilities, and Jamie has demonstrated a resistance to reality warping, as well (in an issue of UXM, Jamie literally says that reality warpers like Proteus can't lay a finger on Betsy, since he made her immune). But on the other hand there's that weakness of Jamie's where a shape-shifter can resist him.

Originally posted by operator616
A being who dwarfs planet and has seen the death of universeS, flees when he hears the name of M'Gubgub:

http://i.imgur.com/FFsvkEl.jpg Galactus: "I think you are totally awesome! Lemme think a minute!"

Lol, that's right up there with this buffoonishness:
http://i.imgur.com/4vhJ2OI.jpg

^

Although, that's not Galactus. That's Alfie who took Galactus' form/shape.

Galactus merely exists as a comic book character in the Nth man reality.

Oh, lol.

Thank God.

Cypher was fairly powerful.

Is Beyonder a mutant now?

Whatever happened to the Inhuman Mutant

Originally posted by

Hell, id give Jamie a good chance even against MJJ with his warp (but
eventually, the latter would win, imo), given that the Fury was resisting his
reality warping abilities, and Jamie has demonstrated a resistance to reality warping
Jamie and Fury have no relation whatsoever though good friend.

Fury's not only immune to "Gods" reality warp, (MJJ was God withIN his warp according to Moore)
but he also comes with uber durability, like withstanding spatial-temporal
nullification on a cosmic scale without so much as a scratch.
It should be noted, that MJJ was in optimal conditions towards the end of the fight,
while the Fury was near exhaustion and in dire need of regeneration.

If it had lasted a few more panels, MJJ kills the Fury (crazy durability/immunity to reality warping and all)

Still, I luv Jamie, I know he's an obscure monster, but MJJ is like the crack of doom.

MJJ is the most powerful mutant imo.

Originally posted by operator616
Id like to mention some powerful Mutants that nobody in this thread talked about (not that i have seen, at least).

Wanda's Children (Thomas & William) - Abstract level:

Avengers Forever v1 #8: They become powerful enough to challenge Eternity (alternate), and "rock the cosmos":

http://i.imgur.com/aEYdDmQ.jpg?1

2006 bio (Immortus' entry):

http://i.imgur.com/mJ0apgM.jpg?1

Although they're technically constructs, it was confirmed back in Avengers West Coast #52, that they possess mutant energies:

http://i.imgur.com/iGLeUXs.jpg?1

---------------------------

Alfie O'Meagan - Universal-level:

Nth Man #16: Alfie gives John his own abilities with which he defeats M'Gubgub (a universal being) by collapsing M'Gubgub in on himself

http://i.imgur.com/ZGEsfq6.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/p6qKkVv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/MA9sFut.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/o5uA7BG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QOgKjhx.jpg

Just so we know how powerful M'Gubgub is: He eats Galaxies for breakfast:

http://i.imgur.com/MXg9NGv.jpg

Nth Man #14: His full form blocks half of the galaxy:

http://i.imgur.com/8ezG6Af.jpg

A being who dwarfs planet and has seen the death of universeS, flees when he hears the name of M'Gubgub:

http://i.imgur.com/FFsvkEl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/fOirCdt.jpg

---------------------------

Arcadia from X-Force - (Unknown-level, she definitely has reality warping abilities; and her power is implied to be universal, but she needed a certain stipulation to become a multiversal threat).

X-Force v1 #93: Rylor says that Moonstar has now the ability to tap into infinite universal energies (courtesy of Arcadia, back in issue #84, it was her who gave Moonstar that power):

http://i.imgur.com/5TPBZFu.jpg?1

Arcadia transformers into the "Queen of the Star Swords" (an evil version of herself). Those are from issue #100

The Queen creates the Cathedral:

http://i.imgur.com/uh6yabh.jpg

This Cathedral actually becomes a nexus point to all the infinite alternate realities:

http://i.imgur.com/r03bZcl.jpg?1

And all the alternate universes/realities started to merge:

http://i.imgur.com/QEd8Xjy.jpg?1

---------------------------

Scotty Summer from Mutant-X - Close to Universal-level.

Defeating the Goblin Entity with a single gesture/thought (Mutant-X #12/#32):

http://i.imgur.com/fu62LfJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/O7o5rah.jpg?1

There are quite several more, im having a hard time remembering them considering that they usually appear in one story (or a few). Although, most of them are mutants who possess reality warping abilities on a limited scale (like Proteus). But those are far from top tiers like MJJ, Jamie, Franklin, etc...



Does your ranking take into account that MJJ already spread his warp (where he has complete control), or not?.
My rankings are far from perfect, but I avoided obscure characters like the ones you mentioned. With the exception of Alfie I dont have any input for the others.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Jamie and Fury have no relation whatsoever though good friend.

Fury's not only immune to "Gods" reality warp, (MJJ was God withIN his warp according to Moore)
but he also comes with uber durability, like withstanding spatial-temporal
nullification on a cosmic scale without so much as a scratch.

Not sure what you mean by "no relation whatsoever". Im not saying that Jamie has the same level of resistance as the Fury, just that he could "tighten his strings" to become somewhat resistant to reality-warping, replicating Fury's conditions to some degree. Apart from the Psylocke example, in an Uncanny X-Men story, Jamie also actually created a Fury which was also adapting to reality warping (where time-space lost coherence), though in a limited area:

http://i.imgur.com/xdP9Ae1.jpg

So yeah, id say that they have at least some relation in that regard (that they're both capable of resisting reality warping, to some degree).


Not exactly without a scratch. Fury was almost destroyed. Daredevils #8 states:

http://i.imgur.com/zlQYlkF.gif?1

"its back is broken, it no longer has any limbs"

Tanking the destruction of a universe is certainly a good feat, but on the other hand, The Fury also has several low showings (in Moore's story and later on as well, im sure you know what im talking about).

Anyway; i won't disagree that Fury's durability > Jamie's, but that doesn't matter much when Jamie is highly resistant to reality warping. Because that's Jaspers most dangerous attack.

I could easily see Jamie "tighten his strings" (becoming more resistant to reality warping), to confront MJJ; on the other hand, if MJJ shapeshifts, he could resist Jamie's powers as well, so there's that.

Originally posted by operator616

Not sure what you mean by "no relation whatsoever". Im not saying that Jamie has the same level of resistance as the Fury, just that he could "tighten his strings" to become somewhat resistant to reality-warping, replicating Fury's conditions to some degree. Apart from the Psylocke example, in an Uncanny X-Men story, Jamie also actually created a Fury which was also adapting to reality warping (where time-space lost coherence), though in a limited area:
http://i.imgur.com/xdP9Ae1.jpg
So yeah, id say that they have at least some relation in that regard (that they're both capable of resisting reality warping, to some degree).
I been knowing that,
and I agree that Jamie can warp strings to make a person less susceptible to reality warping.
It still has no relation to the Fury.
The Fury was immune to God's power over reality. (JJ within his warp was God according to Moore)
Originally posted by operator616

Not exactly without a scratch. Fury was almost destroyed. Daredevils #8 states:
http://i.imgur.com/zlQYlkF.gif?1
"its back is broken, it no longer has any limbs"
Actually, ... Not exactly back at cha.

The Fury withstood its entire universe getting erased unscathed.

..............................................................................................


Fury floating around it's nullified Universe, completely intact: (un-harmed)
... nothing like the beat-up Fury in your scan.

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17952947_Fury_withsatnds_CN.jpg

"It floats through Space that is Not Space"

...............................................................................................


It's not Space, because Space & Time was Nullified there.
So it became Un-Space. (the opposite of Space)

Which is where Fury took Jaspers,
to the Area of the Multiverse (238) that became Un-Space.
In fact, that's how the Fury knew about that location being deserted of space-time
because it was there, floating in Un-Space.

...............................................................................................


Official Marvel Handbook Fury bio 2006:

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17952948_Fury_withstands_CN2.jpg

"Fury modified itself to pursue (the preparation)
unbothered by the raging Reality Warp Jaspers' powers had precipitated,
it survived the destruction of its Entire Reality"

(It didn't escape the destruction ... it Survived it)

...............................................................................................


This Marvel Official Handbook is even more blatant:

Alternate Universes - Crooked World (238 Reality)

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17952949_Fury_withstands_CN3.jpg

"The Fury withstood both the Jaspers Warp and the Destruction of its Reality,
subsequently making its way to Earth 616"

...............................................................................................


We know what "Withstood" means right?

(remain undamaged or unaffected by)


Also,
the Fury "Subsequently made its way to 616."

We know what "Subsequent" means right?

(coming after something in time; following)


So the Fury made its way to 616 AFTER it Withstood the nullification of 238.

...............................................................................................


That said, so what exactly f'd up the Fury?

I don't know, and you don't know. We're told that it was the "journey." (flight)

Apparently, the Fury was violating RealitieS as it travelled to 616

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17952946_Fury_damged_by_flight.jpg

"It has crossed The Parallel RealitieS to hunt its prey" (reads like all universeS)

"Stunted and damaged by its flight"

...............................................................................................


So again, the Fury tanked cosmic scale nullification without so much as a scratch,
and unknown/mysterious obstacles damaged the Fury as it physically crossed the multiverse.

Since there's absolutely no proof as to what that was exactly, there's no point in giving it another thought.
Originally posted by operator616

Tanking the destruction of a universe is certainly a good feat, but on the other hand, The Fury also has several low showings (in Moore's story and later on as well, im sure you know what im talking about).
I could care less about Claremont's Fury.

In Moore's story, the only time Fury was paused, was when Zeitgeist confused it.
Zeitgeist was able to do this cause he's an abstract-type being, who exists as
much as he wants to within reality while actually being located within another reality.
Basically making him like a ghost who can attack from this ghost-like form.
While the Fury stood there, defenseless and unmoving, Technet and Brian buried it momentarily.

That aside, you would have to show me something I missed.

^ Not sure why you're showing me scans of Fury "floating in Un-Space", nobody is disputing this part, where Fury survived the destruction of its universe. Just that it sustained heavy damage.

And the handbooks you posted also don't tell us anything. I read them already. And just because they don't specifically mention that the Fury was damaged in the process, doesn't mean it didn't. You're well aware that the handbooks don't mention everything, especially these kind of details. So your handbooks prove nothing, imo. "Withstood" means "succeed in resisting", which Fury did, but not without damaging itself in the process.

Your Captain Britain v2 #4 is the most relevant one. But see, ive already taken it into account when basing my opinion.

Fact is, there is proof. Marvunapp (like myself) also takes Captain Britain v2 #4 into consideration, and it specifically says that the Fury lost all its four limbs as a result of tanking the destruction of its universe:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/fury1.htm

"It was nearly destroyed escaping from the dying universe, losing all four limbs in the process"




Originally posted by Mr Master
I could care less about Claremont's Fury.

In Moore's story, the only time Fury was paused, was when Zeitgeist confused it.
Zeitgeist was able to do this cause he's an abstract-type being, who exists as
much as he wants to within reality while actually being located within another reality.
Basically making him like a ghost who can attack from this ghost-like form.
While the Fury stood there, defenseless and unmoving, Technet and Brian buried it momentarily.

That aside, you would have to show me something I missed.

I wasn't referring to Claremont's Fury, i was referring to the one shown in X-Men Die by the Sword. Im sure you'll remember what happened there. and while we've debated this before, i still stand by my opinion that its performance was awful (despite being a bit weakened due to Jaspers resisting from the inside) in that story....i mean, seriously.....Energy lances...

http://i.imgur.com/toVKypS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uCAFNsb.jpg

(i know you're aware of it, just wanna post it so that everyone looks at all the facts, here).

Yeah, Daredevils #11 is what im talking about regarding Moore's arc:

http://i.imgur.com/3xjHsdf.gif
http://i.imgur.com/lm5XQsu.gif

See the Marvunapp bio specifically crediting the heroes for damaging the Fury.

Originally posted by operator616

^ Not sure why you're showing me scans of Fury "floating in Un-Space", nobody is disputing this part, where Fury survived the destruction of its universe. Just that it sustained heavy damage.
And the handbooks you posted also don't tell us anything. I read them already. And just because they don't specifically mention that the Fury was damaged in the process, doesn't mean it didn't. You're well aware that the handbooks don't mention everything, especially these kind of details. So your handbooks prove nothing, imo. "Withstood" means "succeed in resisting", which Fury did, but not without damaging itself in the process.
Your Captain Britain v2 #4 is the most relevant one. But see, ive already taken it into account when basing my opinion.
Fact is, there is proof. Marvunapp (like myself) also takes Captain Britain v2 #4 into consideration, and it specifically says that the Fury lost all its four limbs as a result of tanking the destruction of its universe:
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/fury1.htm
"It was nearly destroyed escaping from the dying universe, losing all four limbs in the process"
I can't believe you actually came back to argue this. This tells me you don't like to be wrong.

... So .... website bio > On Panel evidence? ... Not imo but ok.

Anyway yea, there's Fury, right after it withstood the destruction of the universe:

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17952947_Fury_withsatnds_CN.jpg

... uhh, hmm, I didn't see the Fury escape from the dying or dead universe, in fact, it's right there still AFTER nullification.

1) Marvunapp is wrong!

-------------------------------------------------------------


I also don't see a single limb missing after the Fury tanked the universe's death:

http://s5d2.turboimagehost.com/t/17954201_Fury_tanks_CN.jpg

2) Marvunapp is wrong again!


-------------------------------------------------------------

You may have to find another source of inspiration on this one bud.

-------------------------------------------------------------


The Handbook (crooked world bio) I posted is 100% accurate,
the Fury did in fact and without question "withstand" the destruction of its universe, as in unharmed!

On Panel, we are told in the scan you posted it was the "Journey" that damaged it, Not the universe's death.

On Panel, we are shown (no need for handbooks) the Fury chillin in the nullified 238, ALL limbs accounted for.

On Panel, again, we are told, it had something to do with the Fury crossing The RealitieS!

http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/17954203_Fury_tanks_CN2.jpg

"It has paid heavily for its violation of RealitieS, stunted and damaged by its flight ..."

-------------------------------------------------------------


** Whateva that means, it does NOT mean the Fury was damaged by reality-238's destruction.

There's nothing further to discuss here, if pride restrains anyone from admittance,
then they should slide out in silence.
Originally posted by operator616

I wasn't referring to Claremont's Fury, i was referring to the one shown in X-Men Die by the Sword. Im sure you'll remember what happened there. and while we've debated this before, i still stand by my opinion that its performance was awful (despite being a bit weakened due to Jaspers resisting from the inside) in that story....i mean, seriously.....Energy lances...

http://i.imgur.com/toVKypS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uCAFNsb.jpg
Like I said, I could care less about Claremont's Fury, which ... that is.

btw, That issue was full of pot holes. Classic Fury would've eaten Brian and Albion for breakfast.
Brian stood toe to toe with Claremont's Fury and survived, and joined with Albion, damaged it,
that would've never happened with Moore's Fury son, Brian got owned like a child by Moore's Fury. (everyone did actually)

In Claremont's Fury's defense, Blink came in with all her quills when the Fury was vulnerable,
due to it getting pummeled by Albion and Brian as it tried to reassert itself.
Originally posted by operator616

Yeah, Daredevils #11 is what im talking about regarding Moore's arc:

http://i.imgur.com/3xjHsdf.gif
http://i.imgur.com/lm5XQsu.gif

See the Marvunapp bio specifically crediting the heroes for damaging the Fury.
Nah, you go see Marvuanapp to see what happened On Panel,
I'll just go straight to the On Panel action preferably.

Lordy, I already explained this situation.

So yea, those aren't the exact facts though friend.
The team Fury stomped, got stomped, and stayed stomped,
which was everyone save for 'Zeit-Geist.'
They "fought as one" against a momentarily incapacitated Fury,
after the Fury just stood there getting ripped into trying to detect the Abstract attack.

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16107377_Fury_11.jpghttp://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16107378_Fury_12.jpg

ie. They momentarily beat a Fury that wasn't fighting back or defending itself.

Why?

You only posted the scans where 'Zeit-Geist' joins the fight: (Abstract being who exists in
Another Dimension and can only manifest partially in reality when he chooses to)
Look under Powers/Abilities and we realize why/how he was able to disorient the Fury.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/zeitg1.htm

Evidently Fury wouldn't fare well against someone who can attack it in a purely abstract fashion.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Evidently Fury wouldn't fare well against someone who can attack it in a purely abstract fashion.
Well, that was the Fury before its potential was realized, I almost forgot about that.

It was after that incident with Zeitgiest and company that Fury ended up in that uber CPU cave room,
where Fury got a ridiculous upgrade after absorbing the monster sized cpu,
enough of a boost to take on and manage to kill "God." (it was specifically noted that JJ would've easily killed the Fury otherwise)

1)Squirrel Girl.
2)Squirrel Girl.
3)Squirrel Girl.
4)Squirrel Girl.
5)Squirrel Girl.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I can't believe you actually came back to argue this. This tells me you don't like to be wrong.

... So .... website bio > On Panel evidence? ... Not imo but ok.

Anyway yea, there's Fury, right after it withstood the destruction of the universe:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17952947/Fury_withsatnds_CN.jpg.html

... uhh, hmm, I didn't see the Fury escape from the dying or dead universe, in fact, it's right there still AFTER nullification.

1) Marvunapp is wrong!



Marvunapp isn't wrong at all. It says that the Fury escaped from its dying universe to Earth-616, which it did. If you think that Marvunapp implied that the Fury didn't actually tank universal nullification but rather had the Fury "escape narrowly", the no, i don't think that's what it's meant by. Although, the "narrowly" part, does confuse a bit.

Originally posted by Mr Master

I also don't see a single limb missing after the Fury tanked the universe's death:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17954201/Fury_tanks_CN.jpg.html

2) Marvunapp is wrong again!
-------------------------------------------------------------
You may have to find another source of inspiration on this one bud.
-------------------------------------------------------------
The Handbook (crooked world bio) I posted is 100% accurate,
the Fury did in fact and without question "withstand" the destruction of its universe, as in unharmed!

On Panel, we are told in the scan you posted it was the "Journey" that damaged it, Not the universe's death.

On Panel, we are shown (no need for handbooks) the Fury chillin in the nullified 238, ALL limbs accounted for.

On Panel, again, we are told, it had something to do with the Fury crossing The RealitieS!

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/17954203/Fury_tanks_CN2.jpg.html

"It has paid heavily for its violation of RealitieS, stunted and damaged by its flight ..."
-------------------------------------------------------------
** Whateva that means, it does NOT mean the Fury was damaged by reality-238's destruction.

There's nothing further to discuss here, if pride restrains anyone from admittance,
then they should slide out in silence.


Yeah, the handbook is correct, but not detailed. No one here is denying that Fury tanked universal nullification energies. That's what the handbooks mention. Handbooks leave out details, you know that. But going by your logic, why don't either of the handbooks mention that the Fury lost all its limbs as a result of passing parallel realities? ......Right, that's because handbooks don't mentioned every detail, just the basic story.

Anyway, if you think that i can't admit when im wrong, then that's not true. I do admit when im wrong. The last comment was unnecessary, i could say the same thing about you, because you never change your mind/admit that you're wrong, no matter what evidence is posted, from what ive seen. So yeah, let's avoid these kind of comments. That's also the exact reason i dislike debating with you at times; because when i disagree with you, you reply with hostility.

Now, i do admit that your case is stronger than mine, it just doesn't make sense to me that the Fury would withstand universal nullification without a single scratch, but apparently gets nearly destroyed as a result of hopping from one reality to another. That, and i do have at least secondary evidence to back it up, and the CB scan is a bit ambiguous anyway. If anything it also strengthens my point (that it's a very high showing), considering that it says the Fury is damaged by its flight. It also says that "its journey was not pleasant" despite the fact that in Daredevils #6, the Fury was making adjustments to prepare for its journey:

http://i.imgur.com/2otv1fD.jpg?1

So my conclusion would be: The universal nullification severely weakened the Fury, leaving it very vulnerable; and while it hopped from one dimension to another, it finally broke. Does that not make sense? It also contradicts nothing of what was stated/shown on panel, and perfectly fits together, not to mention that it makes sense.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Like I said, I could care less about Claremont's Fury, which ... that is.

btw, That issue was full of pot holes. Classic Fury would've eaten Brian and Albion for breakfast.
Brian stood toe to toe with Claremont's Fury and survived, and joined with Albion, damaged it,
that would've never happened with Moore's Fury son, Brian got owned like a child by Moore's Fury. (everyone did actually)



My mistake (i totally didn't admit that i was mistaken here, did i?), i forgot for a minute that Claremont wrote X-Men die by the Sword. I thought you were referring to Jamie's Fury because Claremont wrote the UXM The End of History arc, as well.

Yeah, i also thought that the Fury and Jaspers of that story were weaker than their original portrayals in Moore's story, i even told you this myself in a past debate, i think. Although, they're still technically the same characters (something which you pointed out yourself).

Originally posted by Mr Master

Nah, you go see Marvuanapp to see what happened On Panel,
I'll just go straight to the On Panel action preferably.

Lordy, I already explained this situation.


uh what? I go straight to on panel events as well, then go to Marvunapp and bios to confirm it further. I totally see Fury getting owned by the heroes, on panel. Which is further backed by the official bio.

That you did; and missed the point, apparently.

Originally posted by Mr Master
So yea, those aren't the exact facts though friend.
The team Fury stomped, got stomped, and stayed stomped,
which was everyone save for 'Zeit-Geist.'
They "fought as one" against a momentarily incapacitated Fury,
after the Fury just stood there getting ripped into trying to detect the Abstract attack.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16107377/Fury_11.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16107378/Fury_12.jpg.html
ie. They momentarily beat a Fury that wasn't fighting back or defending itself.

Why?

You only posted the scans where 'Zeit-Geist' joins the fight: (Abstract being who exists in
Another Dimension and can only manifest partially in reality when he chooses to)
Look under Powers/Abilities and we realize why/how he was able to disorient the Fury.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/zeitg1.htm

Evidently Fury wouldn't fare well against someone who can attack it in a purely abstract fashion.

So yeah, you missed the point.

Everything you said, has nothing to do with what i said. Because all i was ever arguing, was that the Heroes managed to damage the Fury, which they did, that much is indisputable. Zeitgeist got involved, that's great. The Fury wasn't fighting back, that's also great. But i never argued otherwise, and my point still stands.

Also, nice to see you use Marvunapp, same Marvunapp which you sought to disprove in that same post of yours.

So, point is: the Heroes manage to damage the fury (scans already posted) and succeed in burying it under the rocks:

http://i.imgur.com/l1SfuqW.gif?1

After which it took its time to absorb the computer, so that it could repair itself:

http://i.imgur.com/l7IypE6.jpg?1

Originally posted by operator616

Marvunapp isn't wrong at all. It says that the Fury escaped from its dying universe to Earth-616, which it did. If you think that Marvunapp implied that the Fury didn't actually tank universal nullification but rather had the Fury "escape narrowly", the no, i don't think that's what it's meant by. Although, the "narrowly" part, does confuse a bit.
I disagree. It's a fact that Marvuanapp is completely wrong on this.
I proved it with On Panel evidence. I can post it again.

The "narrowly" part doesn't "confuse a bit," imo ... it outright screams that they're wrong.
Originally posted by operator616

Yeah, the handbook is correct, but not detailed. No one here is denying that Fury tanked universal nullification energies. That's what the handbooks mention.

Handbooks leave out details, you know that.
Handbooks also add fallacious info like the one yur selling with Marvunapp website.

Doesn't happen all the time, but it happens, like in this case.
Originally posted by operator616

But going by your logic, why don't either of the handbooks mention that the Fury lost all its limbs as a result of passing parallel realities? ......Right, that's because handbooks don't mentioned every detail, just the basic story.
Well of course they're not going to include every single detail, that's what the comic book is for.
Handbooks give us a broad summarized version of stories that took place on panel.
Handbook writers are human just like us, they're gonna make mistakes just like us.

Anyway, On Panel is where we get the details,
handbooks are only supposed to corroborate what took place on panel,
if they do not, then they're unacceptable as a form of evidence for a particular debate.

On Panel, we Know the Fury was damaged by the ... "Journey" ... "Flight" ... "its Violation of RealitieS"

On Panel ... the Fury was intact floating in the nullified universe.

** I already posted the on panel truth with proof.
Originally posted by operator616

Anyway, if you think that i can't admit when im wrong, then that's not true. I do admit when im wrong. The last comment was unnecessary, i could say the same thing about you, because you never change your mind/admit that you're wrong, no matter what evidence is posted, from what ive seen. So yeah, let's avoid these kind of comments. That's also the exact reason i dislike debating with you at times; because when i disagree with you, you reply with hostility.
... wow, really? ... After you read my response, I'll never see you post this gibberish again yes?

I've actually given you credit on being right and I, being wrong, on TWO separate debates in one thread:

(4th to last post)

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=589795&pagenumber=10

You were right concerning a detail regarding Zom, I was wrong, I told our world.

I also took the opportunity to also give you props on the Dr Strange debate relating to #21 and the "Clusters."

Yea, that's Mr M, like I said in the thread, not the intransigent you're summing up here.
... and you wonder where my occasional limitations of patience appear from.

We were having a heated debate too, and I still exhibited humility.

On a side note, my so called "hostility" is usually me biting back,
if not, it's due to frustration when dealing with intransigence.
Originally posted by operator616

Now, i do admit that your case is stronger than mine, it just doesn't make sense to me that the Fury would withstand universal nullification without a single scratch, but apparently gets nearly destroyed as a result of hopping from one reality to another. That, and i do have at least secondary evidence to back it up, and the CB scan is a bit ambiguous anyway. If anything it also strengthens my point (that it's a very high showing), considering that it says the Fury is damaged by its flight. It also says that "its journey was not pleasant" despite the fact that in Daredevils #6, the Fury was making adjustments to prepare for its journey:

http://i.imgur.com/2otv1fD.jpg?1
1) Thanx for acknowledging the strength of my case.

2) You don't have a "secondary" evidence of any kind though opr. (you only have the Marvunapp website mis-interpretation)

3) We have no idea what the Fury went through as it journeyed across the multiverse.
It's not like it was from one universe (238) to another (616) btw,
the scan not only indicates the Fury crossed universeS (plural) before reaching 616,
but it also strongly suggests that while crossing, something was going down
where the Fury was "Violating RealitieS" ...

That reads to me like, one) the Fury was wrecking shop as it entered different universes,
and getting attacked in the processed, by who or what who knows.
This could've persisted across 100s, millions, who knows how many realitieS.
Or, two) a less likely scenario, Fury was violating cosmic law by crossing universal barriers?
Fury was damaging them? Damaging itself?

Just an opinion based on the context of the dialogue in the scan.

4) I don't see how the scan showing the Fury preparing adds anything.
The Fury "prepared" itself to fly into the cosmos, but it had no idea what it would encounter,
so it couldn't prepare for that.

* opr, we'll really never know what that means exactly, but we know for sure it had nothing to do with 238's death.
Originally posted by operator616

So my conclusion would be: The universal nullification severely weakened the Fury, leaving it very vulnerable; and while it hopped from one dimension to another, it finally broke. Does that not make sense? It also contradicts nothing of what was stated/shown on panel, and perfectly fits together, not to mention that it makes sense.
I disagree. Since On Panel no such thing is evident or alluded to.

opr, friend, you're forcing your reason based on the website cause you want it to be correct, but it's wrong.

Let this one go and give Mr M his love.

Originally posted by operator616

My mistake (i totally didn't admit that i was mistaken here, did i?), i forgot for a minute that Claremont wrote X-Men die by the Sword. I thought you were referring to Jamie's Fury because Claremont wrote the UXM The End of History arc, as well.
Yeah, i also thought that the Fury and Jaspers of that story were weaker than their original portrayals in Moore's story, i even told you this myself in a past debate, i think. Although, they're still technically the same characters (something which you pointed out yourself).
Cool.
Originally posted by operator616

uh what? I go straight to on panel events as well, then go to Marvunapp and bios to confirm it further.
Originally posted by operator616

I totally see Fury getting owned by the heroes, on panel. Which is further backed by the official bio.
So, you "totally saw Fury getting owned by the heroes," .. "on panel" no less?

Let's review that for certainty!

We'll start here where the Fury scorches omniversal guardian Merlyn's hands.

-----------------------------------------------------------


Notice Captain Britain trying to sneak up on the Fury:




Captain Britain, owned ... followed by Wardog, getting his arm ripped off:





-----------------------------

Wardog, owned ... followed by Legion jumping the Fury:



-----------------------------

Legion, owned and killed ... followed by the Fury still getting attacked:



-----------------------------

Oxo, owned and seemingly killed ... followed by a berserk Fascination:



-----------------------------

Fascination, gets a raging grip on the Fury's head, she applies her incredible power.
The Fury tanks her power, and immediately adapts:




Fascination, owned: ... followed Captain Britain who came back to get owned again:



-----------------------------

The Fury is in perfect shape, looking good and unstoppable until ...

... NOW ... finally as I said before Zeitgeist joins the fight right before the Fury kills Captain Britain.

They attack as one the disoriented Fury that was just standing there, not defending itself, or fighting back:

http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16107377_Fury_11.jpghttp://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/16107378_Fury_12.jpg




-----------------------------------------------------------


You call that "seeing the heroes owning the Fury?" ... "totally" no less? Or even "damaging" the Fury?

All I see is the heroes getting owned, some killed, until Zeitgeist confused the Fury,
because the Fury needed more time to adapt to this special case (Zeitgeist)
leaving the Fury as a helpless statue.
THEN, and only then, do I see the heroes putting down the Fury.

The Fury that wasn't fighting back or defending itself that is.

We really "saw" the difference between the two.

So yea, my posts were 100% accurate. The Fury was putting on a clinic until Zeitgeist showed up.

And I don't see any hero "damage" the Fury in any way, not even Fascination who got the best hit. Yep, only Zeitgeist. (abstract being)
Originally posted by operator616

So yeah, you missed the point.
Everything you said, has nothing to do with what i said. Because all i was ever arguing, was that the Heroes managed to damage the Fury, which they did, that much is indisputable. Zeitgeist got involved, that's great. The Fury wasn't fighting back, that's also great. But i never argued otherwise, and my point still stands.
Actually I didn't miss anything. You can deflect if you wish though.

Anyway, I addressed the incorrect info posted directly.
You told me to "see the Marvuanapp bio specifically crediting the heroes for damaging the Fury." huh?

Because, I rather believe them than my own two eyes.

I already submitted Zeitgeist was the only one of significance there, everyone else got owned.
Originally posted by operator616

Also, nice to see you use Marvunapp, same Marvunapp which you sought to disprove in that same post of yours.
I've been using Marvunapp years before you came into this site homie.

I'll continue to use Marvuapp and actual Handbooks as long as they adhere to On Panel evidence.

I have always said that, everyone who knows about me knows this is true.

Yet, I have also said, that sometimes Handbooks and Marvunapp can be wrong,
and this isn't the first time I prove it. I have proven in other debates not concerning you.
Originally posted by operator616

So, point is: the Heroes manage to damage the fury (scans already posted) and succeed in burying it under the rocks:

http://i.imgur.com/l1SfuqW.gif?1

I disagree. I posted the actual facts right above.

What about Thanos?

Originally posted by carver9
What about Thanos?

What about him? Is he a Mutant or a mutate.

He was mentioned to be a mutant. But that was outside an X-Men book. Has his X-Gene been confirmed, so that we can label him a mutant?

If not, he is a Mutate.

1) True legion (every power imaginationable plus insane reality warping)
2) MJJ
3) Adult Franklin Richards
4) Marquis of Death
5) Jamie Braddock
6) Matthew Malloy
7) New Sun
8) Hyperstorm
9) Shaman Nate Grey
10) Full power Cable

Protege is not human, or mutant. He is/was a cosmic being.

He was created, sortalike Warlock. Only Protege was bred to be God.

HOM Wanda still tops the list imo, and MJJ comes in second.

Legion did whatever to the Universe, or even Multiverse ... nice.

Matrix/Merlyn was an absolute Omniversal power ... yet, 238 MJJ > Merlyn ... 616 MJJ > 238 MJJ

thanks mr. m

can we get your rankings and discriptions for your ranking.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Protege is not human, or mutant. He is/was a cosmic being.

He was created, sortalike Warlock. Only Protege was bred to be God.

HOM Wanda still tops the list imo, and MJJ comes in second.

Legion did whatever to the Universe, or even Multiverse ... nice.

Matrix/Merlyn was an absolute Omniversal power ... yet, 238 MJJ > Merlyn ... 616 MJJ > 238 MJJ http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/77/151955-100151-leech.jpg

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Pretty much, though I'd personally transpose your 1 & 2, and possibly make an argument for Prodigy at #4 seeing as he was able to copy the power of the LT, bumping Legion to 5 and Jamie to 6 (unless you'd consider his power copying ability to be 'external amping').

If you meant Protege and if we take Protege, definitely number 1.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
Not necessarily. While he can copy the powers of his opponents (up to and including the LT), it was shown that just copying the powers of someone doesn't make you superior and he got Cellestial Muzzled by Scathan. If he were to copy the powers of the top 3 on the list the best he could score would likely be a draw.

No no DELPH... easily number one, no contest.

Without Protege, definitely HoM Wanda.

K9Ml13AUWaw

Wow

There is soo much wrong on this video.

Originally posted by Inedian
No no DELPH... easily number one, no contest.

Without Protege, definitely HoM Wanda.

correct me if im wrong... franklin richards is a mutant right? franklin is head and heels above everyone else as a mutant

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
correct me if im wrong... franklin richards is a mutant right? franklin is head and heels above everyone else as a mutant nah he's not.

altho i guess protege was only able to b defeated with the help of the living tribunal

http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Franklin_Richards_(Earth-616)

according to marvel franklin is a mutant...

the list is 1.franklin 2.MJJ 3 wanda

Franklin is definitely a dirty mutie

MJJ is tops, Legion is up there, Wanda is definitely not (HOM was retconned to being the Life Force, not her mutant power)

Originally posted by Cogito
Franklin is definitely a dirty mutie

MJJ is tops, Legion is up there, Wanda is definitely not (HOM was retconned to being the Life Force, not her mutant power)

franklin is still more powerful than mjj and wanda is still insanely powerful

Are Meggan's top showings purely by her own abilities?

Can't for the life of me recall the context.

Is Beyonder a mutant inhuman?

Originally posted by "Id"
K9Ml13AUWaw

Wow

There is soo much wrong on this video.

ughh youtube is a cesspool of garbage. i had a dude try to convince me namor, mr fantastic and a bunch of other characters are septillions of times faster than light because they supposedly moved faster than thought, and when i asked him where and how he made that conclusion. he used galactus using telepathy across a galaxy in a nanosecond to prove his point. i stopped replying

Do we have any confirmation that Beyonder is not a mutant-inhuman?

Originally posted by krisblaze

Are Meggan's top showings purely by her own abilities?

Can't for the life of me recall the context.
Yes.

Her top feat was absorption of all power of Earth 616 (excluding Wanda's)
and simultaneous absorption of Otherworld (a pan-dimensional universe)

Imo, I believe she absorbed the power of all universes in that scene,
due to Otherworld containing an omniversal nexus, giving it connection to all universes.
It makes perfect sense since she was prepping to face the Chaos Wave.

I could be wrong though, and perhaps it was just the Otherworld universe itself,
but why would the writer specifically throw in the, "pan-dimensional beyond" ... line?

imo, this can only be to inform us that the feat is across many or all universeS, (pan-dimensional)
and since again, Otherworld contains a direct link to all dimensionS, well ...
Originally posted by "Id"

Do we have any confirmation that Beyonder is not a mutant-inhuman?
Yea Id, u know this brother. Almost immendiately after Illuminati we knew via handbooks,
but then it was made official on panel via Hickman.

The Illuminati scene was spun off as Beyonder mind phuckin them for unknown reasons.

Originally posted by Mr Master


Yea Id, u know this brother. Almost immendiately after Illuminati we knew via handbooks,
but then it was made official on panel via Hickman.

The Illuminati scene was spun off as Beyonder mind phuckin them for unknown reasons.

I am certain that this has been debunked. I just like to source these claims.

Do you have any scans or links to interviews?

Why is true legion 1st?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yes.

Her top feat was absorption of all power of Earth 616 (excluding Wanda's)
and simultaneous absorption of Otherworld (a pan-dimensional universe)

Imo, I believe she absorbed the power of all universes in that scene,
due to Otherworld containing an omniversal nexus, giving it connection to all universes.
It makes perfect sense since she was prepping to face the Chaos Wave.

I could be wrong though, and perhaps it was just the Otherworld universe itself,
but why would the writer specifically throw in the, "pan-dimensional beyond" ... line?

imo, this can only be to inform us that the feat is across many or all universeS, (pan-dimensional)
and since again, Otherworld contains a direct link to all dimensionS, well ...

Yea Id, u know this brother. Almost immendiately after Illuminati we knew via handbooks,
but then it was made official on panel via Hickman.

The Illuminati scene was spun off as Beyonder mind phuckin them for unknown reasons.

That Meggan feat did not happen like that at all. The amount of times i debunked that in the past.

Your interpretation is completely off kilter with any of her showings before or after that incident whereas mine is line with her known capacity.

1) Marquis of Death - could exact universal change with the snap of his fingers
2) Legion - Capable of creating global scale reality warps/pocket universes at the drop of a hat - full potential yet to be revealed
3) Franklin Richards - again capable of creating pocket universes and said to be on par with a Celestial at full potential
4) Mad Jim Jaspers - somewhat overrated on this forum when you actually breakdown his demonstrated feat but still very powerful. 616 Jaspers feat was actually creating a global scale reality warp as stated on panel. However based on observations of his alternate reality counterparts his reality warps sphere of influence was hypothesised to have the potential to spread over time to encompass the universe and potentially be a threat to the greater multiverse if left unchecked. So whereas others higher up on the list demonstrated the ability to exact global or universal scale change in the blink of an eye, Jaspers had to gradually build up his sphere of influence. So he only ever warped reality on large portions of the Earth before he was stopped. Great potential though

5) Jamie Braddock - Again a global scale reality warper as far as we've seen to date. Good showings in terms of strengthening Psylockes defences against First Fallen and in Excalibur against Rachel.


Other contenders:

Matthew Malloy- Massive energy manipulation, psionic and reality warping abilities. However we didnt get to see enough of him on panel unfortunately to rank him.

Jean Grey - Its stated on panel that what makes Jean Grey special as opposed to the other hosts the Phoenix has possessed is that it is actually her mutant ability to tap into the Phoenix Force. With that in mind she'd be number 1 but im too time restricted and old these days to argue the point

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
1) Marquis of Death - could exact universal change with the snap of his fingers
2) Legion - Capable of creating global scale reality warps/pocket universes at the drop of a hat - full potential yet to be revealed
3) Franklin Richards - again capable of creating pocket universes and said to be on par with a Celestial at full potential
4) Mad Jim Jaspers - somewhat overrated on this forum when you actually breakdown his demonstrated feat but still very powerful. 616 Jaspers feat was actually creating a global scale reality warp as stated on panel. However based on observations of his alternate reality counterparts his reality warps sphere of influence was hypothesised to have the potential to spread over time to encompass the universe and potentially be a threat to the greater multiverse if left unchecked. So whereas others higher up on the list demonstrated the ability to exact global or universal scale change in the blink of an eye, Jaspers had to gradually build up his sphere of influence. So he only ever warped reality on large portions of the Earth before he was stopped. Great potential though

5) Jamie Braddock - Again a global scale reality warper as far as we've seen to date. Good showings in terms of strengthening Psylockes defences against First Fallen and in Excalibur against Rachel.


Other contenders:

Matthew Malloy- Massive energy manipulation, psionic and reality warping abilities. However we didnt get to see enough of him on panel unfortunately to rank him.

Jean Grey - Its stated on panel that what makes Jean Grey special as opposed to the other hosts the Phoenix has possessed is that it is actually her mutant ability to tap into the Phoenix Force. With that in mind she'd be number 1 but im too time restricted and old these days to argue the point


So white phoenix would be number 1 on that list if included?
Does someone like nate grey have that potential then too, beast described him as having "her morphology".

Originally posted by hutchy1345
So white phoenix would be number 1 on that list if included?
Does someone like nate grey have that potential then too, beast described him as having "her morphology".

If she were included on the basis that it is in her genetics to tap into the Phoenix Force then yes she'd be number 1 on that basis for displaying greater feats .

Jean Grey Phoenix has with a thought telekinetically amputated the Here Comes tomorrow future timeline off of the 616 universe and carried it away into the White Hot Room for safe keeping. Before turning her attention to 616, materializing said universe in the palm of her hand via complete telekinetic control of its atomic structure. She then proceeded to telepathically reach into said universe and influence events to ensure that the Here Comes Tomorrow future never came to pass.

Unprecedented feats beyond those displayed by anyone on the list.

Nate did retain Jeans morphology when she was the Phoenix, which is part of the reason why he is wildly powerful with his power set extending beyond typical tk and tp.

And yes Nate is destined to become the Phoenix due to the AoA lore being different from the 616. In the AoA Nate, and Jean are kins of Alpha the first Mutant. Those who are direct descendant of Alpha passes down or inherit the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If she were included on the basis that it is in her genetics to tap into the Phoenix Force then yes she'd be number 1 on that basis for displaying greater feats .

Jean Grey Phoenix has with a thought telekinetically amputated the Here Comes tomorrow future timeline off of the 616 universe and carried it away into the White Hot Room for safe keeping. Before turning her attention to 616, materializing said universe in the palm of her hand via complete telekinetic control of its atomic structure. She then proceeded to telepathically reach into said universe and influence events to ensure that the Here Comes Tomorrow future never came to pass.

Unprecedented feats beyond those displayed by anyone on the list.

Jamie Braddock warped the white hot room, is that not an unprecedented feat beyond those displayed by anyone on the list? So should he not be higher?

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Jamie Braddock warped the white hot room, is that not an unprecedented feat beyond those displayed by anyone on the list? So should he not be higher?

Have you got any scans of that particular incident? I havent read that issue of Uncanny Xmen for a while so i wouldnt want to comment without a refresher

This I believe

Wolverine
Cyclops
Gambit
Magneto
Prof X

Originally posted by hutchy1345
This I believe

Based off of that single scan and without some kind of writers commentary its hard to determine exactly what Jamie did there beyond pulling Rachel and Betsy back into reality.

Not only was this ambiguous feat very localised and on an insignificant scale, but could it have been achieved if there wasnt an aperture to 616 through which the ladies were viewing events?

Not enough concrete evidence. Jamies definitely my fave out of the reality warpers though

Thanos is a very powerful mutant. He's going to become Eternal Death one day as well.

Originally posted by Stoic
Thanos is a very powerful mutant. He's going to become Eternal Death one day as well.

It's human mutants

Lifeseed Nate Grey make the list now?

Originally posted by hutchy1345
Lifeseed Nate Grey make the list now? if hes really above legion then yeah

Nate Gray
Juggernaut
Namor
Sentry
Phoenix

sentry is a mutant now?

Originally posted by MrMind
sentry is a mutant now? Maybe? I dunno I'm not a nerd

Originally posted by MrMind
sentry is a mutant now?

That's never been said or hinted at at all from what I know. His power came from drinking the serum.