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So Mikaboshi wasn't "the void" the predated creation, he was just an aspect of Oblivion. Sweet retcon!

Galactus takes on Scrier and The Other and nearly collapses all of reality!!! NOT HYPERBOLE! Odin vs Seth and their long dead galaxy feat...small potatoes.

Galactus clearly shows concern for Surfer and Thor, but has to be an dick to Thor after saving him to maintain his street cred.

DeMatteis is the man!

I would post links to scans but the board won't let me.

Anyway, Galactus just had a legit universe threatening fight, thoughts?

Originally posted by TheRavager
So Mikaboshi wasn't "the void" the predated creation, he was just an aspect of Oblivion. Sweet retcon!

Galactus takes on Scrier and The Other and nearly collapses all of reality!!! NOT HYPERBOLE! Odin vs Seth and their long dead galaxy feat...small potatoes.

Galactus clearly shows concern for Surfer and Thor, but has to be an dick to Thor after saving him to maintain his street cred.

DeMatteis is the man!

I would post links to scans but the board won't let me.

Anyway, Galactus just had a legit universe threatening fight, thoughts?
he needs antacid?

if scrier is making a comeback, that is awesome! i always wanted to learn more about that character. seemed like a waste to me that he was never given more time....

Originally posted by janus77
he needs antacid?

lamo

He hasn't had heartburn since Poppup...or maybe in that Son Hulk mini.

The odin and set fight threatin the entire multiverse, multiverse>reality=1 universe. galactus still sucks.

also if mikaboshi is indeed merly an aspect of oblivion the oblivion>eternity and the other abstracts sans LT. chaos king made Death flee.

Originally posted by leonidas
if scrier is making a comeback, that is awesome! i always wanted to learn more about that character. seemed like a waste to me that he was never given more time....

He's back, but after Galactus got involved with the Scrier/Other "game", they were both like, "Damn...TRUCE?!"

I would like to see more of Scrier, he's a schemer on the level of Thanos but he's also a big league cosmic powerhouse. A lot of great stories could center around his schemes.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
The odin and set fight threatin the entire multiverse, multiverse>reality=1 universe. galactus still sucks.

"Rocking the entire continuum", "shattering long dead galaxies", and "reigniting dying suns" is tiny little baby potatoes compared to bending all of reality to it's breaking point. And there was no hyperbole here, Oblivion couldn't contain a "shiver of anticipation" as he watched their fight occur and nearly destroy all of reality.



Mikaboshi is indeed an aspect of Oblivion, and guess what, Oblivion/Death share a relationship much like Eternity/Infinity.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
The odin and set fight threatin the entire multiverse, multiverse>reality=1 universe. galactus still sucks.

also if mikaboshi is indeed merly an aspect of oblivion the oblivion>eternity and the other abstracts sans LT. chaos king made Death flee.

It didn't threaten the multiverse, the narration just said it was "felt on every plane of reality"

Originally posted by TheRavager
"Rocking the entire continuum", "shattering long dead galaxies", and "reigniting dying suns" is tiny little baby potatoes compared to bending all of reality to it's breaking point. And there was no hyperbole here, Oblivion couldn't contain a "shiver of anticipation" as he watched their fight occur and nearly destroy all of reality.



Mikaboshi is indeed an aspect of Oblivion, and guess what, Oblivion/Death share a relationship much like Eternity/Infinity. Lol, galactus is still a crap character.

I already knew that, what im saying is
Oblivion>Chaos King=Eternity>Death>>>Galactus


Oblivion would fart galactus out of existance

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Lol, galactus is still a crap character.

I already knew that, what im saying is
Oblivion>Chaos King=Eternity>Death>>>Galactus


Oblivion would fart galactus out of existance

Nah, Galactus is an original that spawn imitators. You want to see a crap character? Check out Colossus and Black Adam, talk about a couple of putzes.

You clearly don't understand the implications of the Mikaboshi retcon.
By making Mikaboshi an aspect of Oblivion, the REAL "void that existed before creation", it meant that opposing Mikaboshi would be akin to opposing Oblivion...the guy who is ACTUALLY a peer to Eternity.

P.S. Mikaboshi was basically a chump until he started stealing the power of all those pantheons.

So minus pantheon amping is goes more like this:

Eternity/Infinity = Death/Oblivion > Galactus > Mikaboshi

Galactus' showing/power level in Chaos War was pretty obviously eschewed by the fact that he was robbed of a meal from the very beginning.

Originally posted by TheRavager
P.S. Mikaboshi was basically a chump until he started stealing the power of all those pantheons.

So minus pantheon amping is goes more like this:

Eternity/Infinity = Death/Oblivion > Galactus > Mikaboshi

Galactus' showing/power level in Chaos War was pretty obviously eschewed by the fact that he was robbed of a meal from the very beginning. Originally posted by TheRavager
"Rocking the entire continuum", "shattering long dead galaxies", and "reigniting dying suns" is tiny little baby potatoes compared to bending all of reality to it's breaking point. And there was no hyperbole here, Oblivion couldn't contain a "shiver of anticipation" as he watched their fight occur and nearly destroy all of reality.



Mikaboshi is indeed an aspect of Oblivion, and guess what, Oblivion/Death share a relationship much like Eternity/Infinity.
It was more than just being felt, it was tearing at the very fabric of the multiverse (according to Strange):
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4840/odinsethuniverse8gm.jpg

Universe screaming and the death throws of all reality (according to Jean) :
http://www.universomarvel.com.aq/Thor/Odin_seth_06.jpg

And Colossus Big C is right, this retcon just fxxked sh|t up even more. According to it Oblivion>>>>>CK=Eternity>>>>>>>>>Death (since a mere aspect of Oblivion made an Abstract flee the universe).

Originally posted by zopzop
It was more than just being felt, it was tearing at the very fabric of the multiverse (according to Strange):


...followed up by, "it could threaten untold galaxies." Come on, not only is Strange NOT a particularly credible source on affairs of this nature, he basically contradicts himself in the same sentence. Classic silver age type hyperbole, and yes I know the story was written in the 90s.



Again, a less than authoritative interpretation. Jean herself isn't sure what she's seen, "It's *LIKE* watching..."



Meh, I've blocked out most of Chaos War since it was completely awful. But didn't Death flee after Mikaboshi stole the power of Nightmare and numerous pantheons?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Lol, galactus is still a crap character.

I already knew that, what im saying is
Oblivion>Chaos King=Eternity>Death>>>Galactus


Oblivion would fart galactus out of existance

Oblivion had a very healthy opinion of Galactus during his narrative. And crap character? lol, that's certainly a unique point of view.

aka stupid point of view.

Originally posted by TheRavager
...followed up by, "it could threaten untold galaxies." Come on, not only is Strange NOT a particularly credible source on affairs of this nature, he basically contradicts himself in the same sentence. Classic silver age type hyperbole, and yes I know the story was written in the 90s.



Again, a less than authoritative interpretation. Jean herself isn't sure what she's seen, "It's *LIKE* watching..."
It's no more or less valid than what went on between Galactus/Other/Scrier. If you accept on you have to accept the other. Both are examples of sh|t writing though.

For example :
Odin/Seth and Galactus/Scrier/Other, according to narration or third party, unleashed more power than the ENTIRE Cosmic Hierarchy during their assault on the IG wearers in the Infinity Gauntlet Saga. Death/Galactus/Stranger/Epoch/Love/Hate/2 Celestials/Order/Chaos/Kronos COMBINED attack vs an IG user didn't threaten a universe, let alone all reality.

You really believe the Odin/Seth or Galactus/Scrier/Other throwdown was packing more power than the above example?


I forgot the sequence but I know Death fled after CK killed "Satan" but before he went on to devour Earth's pantheons.

Originally posted by zopzop

It's no more or less valid than what went on between Galactus/Other/Scrier. If you accept on you have to accept the other. Both are examples of sh|t writing though.

Nope, not the case at all. In the Galactus/Scrier/Other instance, we have nearly omniscient/abstract narrator observing the threat to the reality. A character with a vested interest in its cessation. Big difference. The omniscient narrator in the Odin/Seth instance never made such claims, only that long dead galaxies were destroyed and dying suns reignited.



Starlin has always had a more grounded view of the cosmic powerhouses. Also, the cosmics prepped for the war against the IG, a No Prize explanation would be that there were safeguards put into place to prevent the collapse of reality. Reality WAS nearly destroyed by Eternity/Infinity taking on the incomplete IG during Infinity War, however.



What I KNOW is that, from the perspective of Scrier/The Other/Oblivion, all characters with a high levels of cosmic awareness, the Galactus/Scrier/Other fight was straining reality to the point of breaking.



See? Forgettable garbage. All DeMatteis did here is line Mikaboshi back up within the existing cosmic hierarchy. Mikaboshi was a retconned Oblivion, now Mikaboshi has been retconned back into his rightful position.

Originally posted by TheRavager
So Mikaboshi wasn't "the void" the predated creation, he was just an aspect of Oblivion. Sweet retcon!

Galactus takes on Scrier and The Other and nearly collapses all of reality!!! NOT HYPERBOLE! Odin vs Seth and their long dead galaxy feat...small potatoes.

Galactus clearly shows concern for Surfer and Thor, but has to be an dick to Thor after saving him to maintain his street cred.

DeMatteis is the man!

I would post links to scans but the board won't let me.

Anyway, Galactus just had a legit universe threatening fight, thoughts?

I have to say, I know it was a typo, but I was tickled silly at the grammatical creation of "an dick" in this post. I imagine some grizzled narrator saying it as though it were a great literary creation, just like "an historic."

Originally posted by TheRavager
Nope, not the case at all. In the Galactus/Scrier/Other instance, we have nearly omniscient/abstract narrator observing the threat to the reality. A character with a vested interest in its cessation. Big difference. The omniscient narrator in the Odin/Seth instance never made such claims, only that long dead galaxies were destroyed and dying suns reignited.



Starlin has always had a more grounded view of the cosmic powerhouses. Also, the cosmics prepped for the war against the IG, a no prize explanation would be that there were safeguards put into place. Reality WAS nearly destroyed by Eternity/Infinity taking on the incomplete IG during Infinity War, however.



What I KNOW is that, from the perspective of Scrier/The Other/Oblivion, all characters with a high levels of cosmic awareness, the Galactus/Scrier/Other fight was straining reality to the point of breaking.



See? Forgettable garbage. All DeMatteis did here is line Mikaboshi back up within the existing cosmic hierarchy. Mikaboshi was a retconned Oblivion, now Mikaboshi has been retconned back into his rightful position.
Oblivion is not omniscient. Not even close. He was duped by his own Avatar and had to be saved by Infinity (who saw right through Maelstrom's plan) using her Avatar, Quasar.

There's no proof that the Cosmics did any kind of prep before the throwdown with Thanos (or the unexpected throwdown with Nebula later), it wasn't even hinted at.

Also Eternity AND Infinity combined >>>>>>>>>>>>>Galactus/Epoch/2 Celestials/Order/Chaos/Love/Hate/Kronos/Stranger/Death, so if two of the most powerful abstracts in the universe throw down vs even an incomplete IG, sh|t is gonna get wrecked.

This doesn't save the garbage in that Thor Annual. How could Galactus/Scrier/Other or Seth/Odin output MORE power than the entire Cosmic Hierarchy (Death/Galactus/Stranger/Epoch/Kronos/Love/Hate/Order/Chaos/2 Celestials)?

Originally posted by zopzop
Oblivion is not omniscient. Not even close. He was duped by his own Avatar and had to be saved by Infinity (who saw right through Maelstrom's plan) using her Avatar, Quasar.

Oblivion was established as very nearly omniscient in Thor Annual 1. He knew the thoughts/motivations/secrets of nearly everyone in the issue, only Galactus' thoughts were described as "impenetrable". He was very much portrayed as a NEARLY omniscient narrator.



Yes, that's why it is called a NO PRIZE explanation.



It was an Eternity/Infinity vs an incomplete IG, the Magus was overwhelmed quickly in the end and yet reality was nearly wiped out. Simple logic dictates that a prolonged struggle between Eternity and a COMPLETE IG should have a greater power output...you know since an incomplete IG isn't anywhere near the power of a complete one.



Different story, different circumstances. As a story, the Thor Annual was actually very good. Well written, proper characterizations, proper motivations, respect/deference to continuity that has been sorely lacking at Marvel for the last 5+ years. You don't like universe threatening fights. You don't like that Galactus provided a better space cheese fight than Odin ever has. I get it. This Annual, however, was certainly no garbage.

Originally posted by TheRavager
Oblivion was established as very nearly omniscient in Thor Annual 1. He knew the thoughts/motivations/secrets of everyone in the issue. He was very much portrayed as a NEARLY omniscient narrator.

Oblivion couldn't even tell that his lackey was making a fool of him (as pointed out by Infinity herself). That's some crappy omniscience right there. I mean it's not like his (Maelstrom's) plan was some big secret. Eon AND Infinity were aware of it.



This has nothing to do with the fact that Odin/Seth or Galactus/Scrier/Other, if taking narration or third party comments as "gospel", outputted more power than the entire Cosmic Hierarchy.



No, it was garbage.

So... is this an actual fight, or just a pointless thread now?

Originally posted by zopzop
Oblivion couldn't even tell that his lackey was making a fool of him (as pointed out by Infinity herself). That's some crappy omniscience right there. I mean it's not like his (Maelstrom's) plan was some big secret. Eon AND Infinity were aware of it.

Again, Oblivion displayed high levels of cosmic awareness in this issue. He was portrayed as very nearly omniscient here. Have you ever heard of PIS? It happens.



Nor does the fact that a fight with the an incomplete Guantlet seemed to have greater output/effect on reality than a fight against a complete one. Face it, there are inconsistencies is comics. Different writers have different views of power levels.



You are entitled to your opinion, even though it is wrong.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
So... is this an actual fight, or just a pointless thread now?

I intended to post scans, but the board has restricted me from posting links.

Originally posted by zopzop
And Colossus Big C is right, this retcon just fxxked sh|t up even more. According to it Oblivion>>>>>CK=Eternity>>>>>>>>>Death (since a mere aspect of Oblivion made an Abstract flee the universe).



Since Eternity in CW#2 already mentioned that CK is the Void defined against him.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/CKDarkHalfofEternity2.jpg?t=1303174639

But is this where it was only shown or mentioned on panel of what Eternity stated about CK being true?Here's on panel showing of what occured in a 2003 Defenders issue were Dormammu ended up inside Eternity.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/The%20Dread%20Dormammu/DormammuRemadesTheMultiverseInstead1.jpg

The void inside Eternity is shown in that issue.Now you can say the mess up of the cosmic hierarchy would have started in that Defenders issue since that's the first time the void inside Eternity was shown.In fact, I thought Oblivion and Eternity are one and the same because of that issue.And it made Eternity an Anti-Infinity since Oblivion is the force that is against Infinity.But the Thor Annual made it a bigger mess.

Oblivion>>>CK(since he's an aspect of Oblivion)=Eternity=Infinity>>>>>Death(she ran away from an aspect of Oblivion)

If anything, at least Oblivion confirmed that CK destroyed 98.76% of the Multiverse since he stated he came close. and CK is just an aspect of Oblivion.

Are Big C and ZopZop the same poster?

Originally posted by Nihilist
Are Big C and ZopZop the same poster?
Go back to jerking off to your Thanos poster if you got nothing constructive to add to this discussion.

Galactus would probably win this match up. He seemed confident to take on both Scrier and The Other at the same time. Their attacks didn't seem to affect Galactus all that much, while Galactus' attacks made them reel in pain.

http://i50.tinypic.com/246jgo0.jpg
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http://i49.tinypic.com/2cekrcn.jpg
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http://i49.tinypic.com/2vboqpu.jpg

Originally posted by Endless Mike
It didn't threaten the multiverse, the narration just said it was "felt on every plane of reality"

Strange did claim that it was "tearing at the very fabric of the multiverse" , along with the fact that it would "imperil untold galaxies" .
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/56665/1583748-odinvsseth4_super.jpg
Now , whether his opinion in this regard matters or not , whether people want to dismiss it as mere hyperbole , I'll leave it to the onlookers to decide .

And here I thought that the cosmic Hierarchy in marvel couldn't get more of a mess.

Originally posted by zopzop
This doesn't save the garbage in that Thor Annual. How could Galactus/Scrier/Other or Seth/Odin output MORE power than the entire Cosmic Hierarchy (Death/Galactus/Stranger/Epoch/Kronos/Love/Hate/Order/Chaos/2 Celestials)?


Galactus is just that good 131

Deal with it

Originally posted by TheRavager
Again, Oblivion displayed high levels of cosmic awareness in this issue. He was portrayed as very nearly omniscient here. Have you ever heard of PIS? It happens.



Nor does the fact that a fight with the an incomplete Guantlet seemed to have greater output/effect on reality than a fight against a complete one. Face it, there are inconsistencies is comics. Different writers have different views of power levels.



You are entitled to your opinion, even though it is wrong. It might be important to note, it was self described near omnipotence. It could have been Oblivion tooting his own horn, considering it seemed like he couldn't focus on two areas at the same time. The instance being he was looking at Thor then he had to turn his gaze from Thor to Galactus and even than when Galactus and Scrier wanted to talk they were able to cloud themselves from him.

Also as for the cosmic hierarchy that's one thing I hate about this is that it turns into crazy mess.

But with regards to CK and Oblivion, while CK may have only been an aspect of Oblivion it is possible due to all the pantheons he absorbed that CK could have surpassed the entirety of Oblivion or was drawing on all or most of the power of an amped concept of Oblivion.

For Example, say Thanos created a Thanosi that contained a small aspect of himself but that Thanosi somehow got the HOTU well then that Thanosi would obviously be stronger than Thanos.

Or another idea is perhaps that the more CK destroyed the stronger the abstract concept of Oblivion grew and CK was calling on all or most of an amped Oblivion's powers or something along those lines.

An example could be the Juggernaut. He is an aspect of Cyttorak's power, but say Cyttorak was getting an amp because Juggeranut was turning parts of reality into the Crimson Cosmos, and Cyttorak was allowing the Juggernaut to use most if not all of Cyttorak's power. So while even though Juggernaut is only an aspect he is roughly equal to the entire concept.

I don't know you could say the definitely one way or the other but it makes sense to me.

Also the Thor annual was definitely really good imo. I wish to see more stories written in that same vein.

Also as for Odin vs Galactus I think everyone agrees more or less that Galactus is greater, but depending on writer you could make a case that Odin could possibly give Galactus a decent bout under the right circumstances.

Odin is after all the premiere power on his level for a reason.

Originally posted by Newjak
It might be important to note, it was self described near omnipotence. It could have been Oblivion tooting his own horn, considering it seemed like he couldn't focus on two areas at the same time. The instance being he was looking at Thor then he had to turn his gaze from Thor to Galactus and even than when Galactus and Scrier wanted to talk they were able to cloud themselves from him.

Also as for the cosmic hierarchy that's one thing I hate about this is that it turns into crazy mess.

But with regards to CK and Oblivion, while CK may have only been an aspect of Oblivion it is possible due to all the pantheons he absorbed that CK could have surpassed the entirety of Oblivion or was drawing on all or most of the power of an amped concept of Oblivion.

For Example, say Thanos created a Thanosi that contained a small aspect of himself but that Thanosi somehow got the HOTU well then that Thanosi would obviously be stronger than Thanos.

Or another idea is perhaps that the more CK destroyed the stronger the abstract concept of Oblivion grew and CK was calling on all or most of an amped Oblivion's powers or something along those lines.

An example could be the Juggernaut. He is an aspect of Cyttorak's power, but say Cyttorak was getting an amp because Juggeranut was turning parts of reality into the Crimson Cosmos, and Cyttorak was allowing the Juggernaut to use most if not all of Cyttorak's power. So while even though Juggernaut is only an aspect he is roughly equal to the entire concept.

I don't know you could say the definitely one way or the other but it makes sense to me.

Also the Thor annual was definitely really good imo. I wish to see more stories written in that same vein.

Also as for Odin vs Galactus I think everyone agrees more or less that Galactus is greater, but depending on writer you could make a case that Odin could possibly give Galactus a decent bout under the right circumstances.

Odin is after all the premiere power on his level for a reason.
Scrier was also aware of Oblivion monitoring them .
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/scriernoticesoblivion.jpg/

Plus , Oblivion broke 4th wall in this issue :
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/232/oblivion4thwall.jpg/

From the above scan , the closing of this comic issue seems to imply that it wasn't Scrier , but Oblivion who was pulling the strings .

Hmm good issue. Particularly nice to see the Scrier return as he seems like a really intriguing cosmic schemer with the potential for great future storylines. Also good to see Galactus getting his dues after the continuity as well as storytelling debacle that was Chaos war.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Scrier was also aware of Oblivion monitoring them .

Although it's also possible that he was either just making an educated guess that Oblivion would be watching those events and calling him on it (the same way a character might think "I know the Watcher must be observing this" during some big event), or that he just thinks Oblivion is "everywhere" and relatively omniscient.

Originally posted by basilisk
Although it's also possible that he was either just making an educated guess that Oblivion would be watching those events and calling him on it (the same way a character might think "I know the Watcher must be observing this" during some big event), or that he just thinks Oblivion is "everywhere" and relatively omniscient.

Scrier : "I know you're there Oblivion--and I warn you : Don't meddle in my affairs ."

I don't think that Scrier was merely making an educated guess .

Originally posted by Newjak
It might be important to note, it was self described near omnipotence. It could have been Oblivion tooting his own horn, considering it seemed like he couldn't focus on two areas at the same time. The instance being he was looking at Thor then he had to turn his gaze from Thor to Galactus and even than when Galactus and Scrier wanted to talk they were able to cloud themselves from him.

Also as for the cosmic hierarchy that's one thing I hate about this is that it turns into crazy mess.

But with regards to CK and Oblivion, while CK may have only been an aspect of Oblivion it is possible due to all the pantheons he absorbed that CK could have surpassed the entirety of Oblivion or was drawing on all or most of the power of an amped concept of Oblivion.

For Example, say Thanos created a Thanosi that contained a small aspect of himself but that Thanosi somehow got the HOTU well then that Thanosi would obviously be stronger than Thanos.

Or another idea is perhaps that the more CK destroyed the stronger the abstract concept of Oblivion grew and CK was calling on all or most of an amped Oblivion's powers or something along those lines.

An example could be the Juggernaut. He is an aspect of Cyttorak's power, but say Cyttorak was getting an amp because Juggeranut was turning parts of reality into the Crimson Cosmos, and Cyttorak was allowing the Juggernaut to use most if not all of Cyttorak's power. So while even though Juggernaut is only an aspect he is roughly equal to the entire concept.

I don't know you could say the definitely one way or the other but it makes sense to me.

Also the Thor annual was definitely really good imo. I wish to see more stories written in that same vein.

Also as for Odin vs Galactus I think everyone agrees more or less that Galactus is greater, but depending on writer you could make a case that Odin could possibly give Galactus a decent bout under the right circumstances.

Odin is after all the premiere power on his level for a reason.

Not omnipotence . Omnipresence .
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/oblivionomnipresence.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/oblivionomnipresence.jpg/

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Not omnipotence . Omnipresence .
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/oblivionomnipresence.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/oblivionomnipresence.jpg/ I didn't mean Omnipotence I meant the other one

There's a lot of Omnis out there.

Originally posted by Utrigita
And here I thought that the cosmic Hierarchy in marvel couldn't get more of a mess.
Originally posted by Newjak
It might be important to note, it was self described near omnipotence. It could have been Oblivion tooting his own horn, considering it seemed like he couldn't focus on two areas at the same time. The instance being he was looking at Thor then he had to turn his gaze from Thor to Galactus and even than when Galactus and Scrier wanted to talk they were able to cloud themselves from him.

Also as for the cosmic hierarchy that's one thing I hate about this is that it turns into crazy mess.

But with regards to CK and Oblivion, while CK may have only been an aspect of Oblivion it is possible due to all the pantheons he absorbed that CK could have surpassed the entirety of Oblivion or was drawing on all or most of the power of an amped concept of Oblivion.

For Example, say Thanos created a Thanosi that contained a small aspect of himself but that Thanosi somehow got the HOTU well then that Thanosi would obviously be stronger than Thanos.

Or another idea is perhaps that the more CK destroyed the stronger the abstract concept of Oblivion grew and CK was calling on all or most of an amped Oblivion's powers or something along those lines.

An example could be the Juggernaut. He is an aspect of Cyttorak's power, but say Cyttorak was getting an amp because Juggeranut was turning parts of reality into the Crimson Cosmos, and Cyttorak was allowing the Juggernaut to use most if not all of Cyttorak's power. So while even though Juggernaut is only an aspect he is roughly equal to the entire concept.

I don't know you could say the definitely one way or the other but it makes sense to me.

Also the Thor annual was definitely really good imo. I wish to see more stories written in that same vein.

Also as for Odin vs Galactus I think everyone agrees more or less that Galactus is greater, but depending on writer you could make a case that Odin could possibly give Galactus a decent bout under the right circumstances.

Odin is after all the premiere power on his level for a reason.
Regarding the mess that Marvel's Hierarchy is...
Some info on Oblivion. Iceman NEVER beat him. Oblivion was testing Iceman because Iceman was in love with Oblivion's daughter and it was all a series of tests to determine how worthy Iceman was. I'm just putting that out there because it's brought up a lot (not necessarily by you guys, just wanted to get that out there).

Now on to his supposed power level. Keep in mind during the Quasar "Cosmos in Collision" arc, he faced down Infinity and her Avatar, Quasar. It was Quasar with cosmic awareness and Infinity's power vs Maelstrom with cosmic awareness + Anomaly's power + the Quantum Bands (amping Maelstrom) + Oblivion's power and guess what? It was a stalemate! Infinity's power by itself was enough to match Oblivion's + the Q-bands (that were amping Maelstrom's inherent powers) + Anomaly. Also Infinity's power, working through her Avatar, Quasar, was enough to reverse the mega black hole that Maelstrom unleashed upon the universe. At the conclusion of the fight, Death and Eternity joined Oblivion and Infinity and they were negotiating a new contract. Quasar stated that of all the abstracts these 4 were the most powerful. It was also stated repeatedly (by Eternity himself) that Eternity and Infinity are merely two sides of the same coin. So Eternity = Infinity.

Now all of a sudden a mere aspect of Oblivion is Eternity's equal and causes Death to flee? Aspect of Oblivion =Eternity=Infinity>>>>>Death?! Fxxk that, that's moronic.

Originally posted by Bentley
Galactus is just that good 131

Deal with it
Shut up you!argue chair

Originally posted by zopzop
Go back to jerking off to your Thanos poster if you got nothing constructive to add to this discussion. all i did was point out you both act the same way about most characters.

Do i jerk off as much as you do to that shitty Chaos War/Chaos King?

Originally posted by Nihilist
all i did was point out you both act the same way about most characters.

Do i jerk off as much as you do to that shitty Chaos War/Chaos King?
Hush fool! whip
I've repeatedly stated how much I hate the utter garbage that was Chaos War and Chaos King. But if it's on panel and canon then we have no choice but to acknowledge it. That PoS arc retconned 30+ years of Marvel history concerning the Gods and for no good reason. That recent retcon of CK being a mere aspect of Oblivion isn't enough for me. They have to retcon the whole damn event into being nothing more than a dream, then I'll be happy.

Originally posted by zopzop
Hush fool! whip
I've repeatedly stated how much I hate the utter garbage that was Chaos War and Chaos King. But if it's on panel and canon then we have no choice but to acknowledge it. That PoS arc retconned 30+ years of Marvel history concerning the Gods and for no good reason. That recent retcon of CK being a mere aspect of Oblivion isn't enough for me. They have to retcon the whole damn event into being nothing more than a dream, then I'll be happy. OK Big C

Originally posted by Nihilist
OK Big C
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3550/foryounihilist.gif

Typical Big C response

I like how Zopzop falls in love with the Odin/Seth fight, and nothing is said about it... until Galactus surpassed that feat.
And now it doesn't count because IG!

Logic via taking a nose dive.

Either way. Galactus took on two very powerful cosmic beings. And even tanked an amped "Godblast". It was a very respectful issue... to everyone... which is ****ing surprising.
Interesting issue if at times the wording seemed a little rushed, and some of the circumstances didn't make too much sense.
It would have been better if this was an arc me thinks, but if it revives Thor annuals, hell ****ing yes.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I like how Zopzop falls in love with the Odin/Seth fight, and nothing is said about it... until Galactus surpassed that feat.
And now it doesn't count because IG!

Logic via taking a nose dive.

Either way. Galactus took on two very powerful cosmic beings. And even tanked an amped "Godblast". It was a very respectful issue... to everyone... which is ****ing surprising.
Interesting issue if at times the wording seemed a little rushed, and some of the circumstances didn't make too much sense.
It would have been better if this was an arc me thinks, but if it revives Thor annuals, hell ****ing yes.

Agree. Big G was tanking attacks left & right. He even tanked Scriers eyebeams to the face. That was some sort of merged godblast wasn't it?

Is it just me or did this story seem like something that could've been designed for a Surfer series or 1 shot as opposed to Thor headlining?

Originally posted by Sundipped
Agree. Big G was tanking attacks left & right. He even tanked Scriers eyebeams to the face. That was some sort of merged godblast wasn't it?

Is it just me or did this story seem like something that could've been designed for a Surfer series or 1 shot as opposed to Thor headlining? Yeah, it was pretty cool.

It was very cosmic. Mind you Thor was the character who got the most spotlight... oh wait, Scrier was.

Surfer seemed like he wasn't even there, neither did Rachel. Thor was secondish alongside Oblivion. Although now that I think of it... Thor was third.

Scrier Annual #1 IMO.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I like how Zopzop falls in love with the Odin/Seth fight, and nothing is said about it... until Galactus surpassed that feat.
And now it doesn't count because IG!

Logic via taking a nose dive.
How did Galactus "surpass" the Odin/Seth fight? It was an unawakened Odin (when Odin awakened to his full power the fight was over fast) vs Seth. As opposed to Galactus/Scrier/Other. Two beings going at it vs Three beings going at it. Both fights were said to threaten reality. BFD.

According to narration (Odin/Seth fight) and third party comments (Galactus/Scrier/Other and Odin/Seth fights) both throwdowns out did the entire Cosmic Hierarchy (Galactus included) facing off vs Thanos (and later Nebula) with the IG.

Originally posted by zopzop
How did Galactus "surpass" the Odin/Seth fight? It was an unawakened Odin (when Odin awakened to his full power the fight was over fast) vs Seth. As opposed to Galactus/Scrier/Other. Two beings going at it vs Three beings going at it. Both fights were said to threaten reality. BFD.

According to narration (Odin/Seth fight) and third party comments (Galactus/Scrier/Other and Odin/Seth fights) both throwdowns out did the entire Cosmic Hierarchy (Galactus included) facing off vs Thanos (and later Nebula) with the IG. One had Oblivion giddy with excitement, the other had Strange stating that tearing at the fabric of the multiverse could imperil untold galaxies.

Or Galactus vs two beings...

And why did you have no problem bringing up the Seth fight before for Odin, yet as soon as Galactus "comes close" it's now bullshit?
See, I don't care about the universe being in danger, I just think it's funny that your logic turns on a dime.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
One had Oblivion giddy with excitement, the other had Strange stating that tearing at the fabric of the multiverse could imperil untold galaxies.
Dr. Strange, Jean Grey, the Surfer, the narrator...


That's still THREE PEOPLE : Galactus + TWO others = THREE BEINGS. As opposed to an unawakened Odin vs Seth, which are only TWO BEINGS.


I've brought it up before when I was arguing with Rage. If we accept third party comments (Oblivion, Dr. Strange, Jean Grey, Surfer) or the Narrator then the Odin/Seth and Galactus/Scrier/Other death matches outdid the entire Cosmic Hierarchy (which INCLUDED Galactus) vs Thanos (and then later Nebula) with the IG in power output.

Originally posted by zopzop

Dr. Strange, Jean Grey, the Surfer, the narrator...


That's still THREE PEOPLE : Galactus + TWO others = THREE BEINGS. As opposed to an unawakened Odin vs Seth, which are only TWO BEINGS.


I've brought it up before when I was arguing with Rage. If we accept third party comments (Oblivion, Dr. Strange, Jean Grey, Surfer) or the Narrator then the Odin/Seth and Galactus/Scrier/Other death matches outdid the entire Cosmic Hierarchy (which INCLUDED Galactus) vs Thanos (and then later Nebula) with the IG in power output. Jean Grey said that before Seth even fought Odin...
Don't recall the narrator saying it, but he did in the Galactus fight (Oblivion), along with Rachel, Scrier, and seemingly the Other.

What the **** does that matter when it's Galactus fighting these two beings? One was throwing planets at Galactus like the Celestials did against Thanos, and the other (heh, what a stupid name) was doing stuff.... The two on their own were capable of destroying the universe apparently, and add in Galactus fighting both of these guys... Yeah.

Then you changed your mind earlier when it suited your needs, because it used to be the reason Odin was firmly above Galactus in your opinion.

Either way, collateral damage isn't a good basis for power, that I agree with, however, it also doesn't mean something is badly written (especially when you're using one of the most powerful battles in comics that was only like star system level as your defense). It's just subjective in comics. You can't write everything as universe destroying.

You know what was really badly written though? Seth partaking in a battle that threatened anything. That guy is terrible.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Jean Grey said that before Seth even fought Odin...
Don't recall the narrator saying it, but he did in the Galactus fight (Oblivion), along with Rachel, Scrier, and seemingly the Other.

What the **** does that matter when it's Galactus fighting these two beings? One was throwing planets at Galactus like the Celestials did against Thanos, and the other (heh, what a stupid name) was doing stuff.... The two on their own were capable of destroying the universe apparently, and add in Galactus fighting both of these guys... Yeah.

Then you changed your mind earlier when it suited your needs, because it used to be the reason Odin was firmly above Galactus in your opinion.

Either way, collateral damage isn't a good basis for power, that I agree with, however, it also doesn't mean something is badly written (especially when you're using one of the most powerful battles in comics that was only like star system level as your defense). It's just subjective in comics. You can't write everything as universe destroying.

You know what was really badly written though? Seth partaking in a battle that threatened anything. That guy is terrible.
All I'm saying is that Marvel needs to get their sh|t together "cosmic" story wise. It's all over the place.

Oh and Seth is garbage, at least we can agree on that.

Originally posted by zopzop
All I'm saying is that Marvel needs to get their sh|t together "cosmic" story wise. It's all over the place.

Oh and Seth is garbage, at least we can agree on that. Meh, I think Starlin just didn't have a good grasp of how much havok a battle like that could theoretically wreck. Plus the time that things are written too could have something to do with it.
Or most people don't tbh, and that's why it should pretty much only be a "oh cool, this is interesting" as opposed to being used in a debate.

He's not good, that's for sure.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Meh, I think Starlin just didn't have a good grasp of how much havok a battle like that could theoretically wreck. Plus the time that things are written too could have something to do with it.
Or most people don't tbh, and that's why it should pretty much only be a "oh cool, this is interesting" as opposed to being used in a debate.

He's not good, that's for sure.

Wasn't Odin vs Seth DeFalco though?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
The odin and set fight threatin the entire multiverse, multiverse>reality=1 universe. galactus still sucks.

also if mikaboshi is indeed merly an aspect of oblivion the oblivion>eternity and the other abstracts sans LT. chaos king made Death flee.


What gives you the idea that a multiverse (singular) is greater than reality? Aren't they nearly the same thing? I'd say that having all power over reality holds equal weight to having all power over the multiverse, or perhaps even more in terms of manipulation feats or stunts.

Originally posted by zopzop
How did Galactus "surpass" the Odin/Seth fight? It was an unawakened Odin (when Odin awakened to his full power the fight was over fast) vs Seth. As opposed to Galactus/Scrier/Other. Two beings going at it vs Three beings going at it. Both fights were said to threaten reality. BFD.

Because Galactus took on TWO Odin/Seth++ levels beings and no sold everything they had to offer (the reverse isn't true), one shot 6 planetary bodies when they were thrown at him (ON PANEL), and had Oblivion drooling at the prospect of these three cosmic heavyweights collapsing reality.

The Surfer merely stated the Odin/Seth battle could "rock the continuum", Dr. Strange initially flipped out but reigned in his assessment with his second sentence, and the omniscient narrator merely stated that "dying galaxies" were destroyed and that "dying suns were reignited"...none of which was shown on panel. Galactus not only "surpassed" the Odin/Seth fight, he blew it out of the water.



Well, Scrier did replicate the Celestial feat in IG, and Galactus replicated Thanos'/IG's response. This was a major cosmic throwdown.

The IG fight showed massive spatial distortions caused by the battle, the Odin/Seth fight did not. Really, the Odin/Seth fight relied on a lot of silver age-style hyperbole/exposition to lend itself gravitas, while the IG fight and the Galactus/Scrier/Other fight was portrayed as very literal with on-panel support.

Is the context in the Thor Annual#1 not mentioned?Didn't Oblivion stated that if Scrier and the Other fought near the Barricade, it will give what Oblivion what he wants.The destruction of the Multiverse due to Scrier and the Other fighting near the Barricade.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/12118616_o2.jpg

BTW I'm not low balling but merely pointing out the circumstances involved.Scrier's and the Other's fighting near the Barricade is the equivalent of 2 guys with sledge hammers fighting each other inside the house.And the most important pillar of the house got hit accidentally due to the fight.Therefore collapsing the house in the process.That is the equivalent of Scrier and the Other fighting.Add Big G to the mix and it would speed up the process.

Originally posted by Igniz
Is the context in the Thor Annual#1 not mentioned?Didn't Oblivion stated that if Scrier and the Other fought near the Barricade, it will give what Oblivion what he wants.The destruction of the Multiverse due to Scrier and the Other fighting near the Barricade.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/12118616_o2.jpg

BTW I'm not low balling but merely pointing out the circumstances involved.Scrier's and the Other's fighting near the Barricade is the equivalent of 2 guys with sledge hammers fighting each other inside the house.And the most important pillar of the house got hit accidentally due to the fight.Therefore collapsing the house in the process.That is the equivalent of Scrier and the Other fighting.Add Big G to the mix and it would speed up the process.

Actually Scrier had already revealed to Thor that Asgard's displacement to Earth had weakened his Barricade , and from his statements it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if 2 super-cosmic heavyweights like himself and the Other(let alone an addition like Galactus) fought near it , the fallout from their fight would break the Barricade , then what would follow would make the Chaos War look like a prelude in comparison and it would result in the annihilation of all universes(according to Oblivion) .

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Scrier Annual #1 IMO.

I need to highlight this comment because its quite true.

Which comics are you guys referring to? What issues?

Originally posted by h1a8
Which comics are you guys referring to? What issues? Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Scrier Annual #1

Originally posted by h1a8
Which comics are you guys referring to? What issues?

The Mighty Thor Annual # 01 .

Originally posted by Igniz
Is the context in the Thor Annual#1 not mentioned?Didn't Oblivion stated that if Scrier and the Other fought near the Barricade, it will give what Oblivion what he wants.The destruction of the Multiverse due to Scrier and the Other fighting near the Barricade.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/12118616_o2.jpg

BTW I'm not low balling but merely pointing out the circumstances involved.Scrier's and the Other's fighting near the Barricade is the equivalent of 2 guys with sledge hammers fighting each other inside the house.And the most important pillar of the house got hit accidentally due to the fight.Therefore collapsing the house in the process.That is the equivalent of Scrier and the Other fighting.Add Big G to the mix and it would speed up the process. The Barricade was meant to lock the Other out.
http://i47.tinypic.com/ei43di.jpg

If it broke, it meant that they would fight each other.

And here the Other says that he will destroy the barricade and take what's his. If destroying the Barricade means destroying the universe... then what's he going to take?
http://i49.tinypic.com/2dl1zxd.jpg

All in all, the only thing attributed to the barrier is that it would free the Other forever which would cause them to fight.

A doorway was torn open which rendered him able to enter the 616 universe before that's brought up...

Is it even clear that "The Other" is separate from and independent of "Scrier"? Scrier was using The Other to somehow manifest Rachel, so might he not have been "manifesting" The Other, all along.

Anyway, Galactus uber alles

Originally posted by janus77
Is it even clear that "The Other" is separate from and independent of "Scrier"? Scrier was using The Other to somehow manifest Rachel, so might he not have been "manifesting" The Other, all along.

Anyway, Galactus uber alles Well, the Other does exist, and has fought Surfer a couple times. The thing almost killed Surfer in like a second. Which resorted to Scrier killing Surfer, Scrier punking Mephisto, and then Scrier and Surfer creating the barricade.

As for Rachel, Scrier used her to lure Thor to the battle.

J.M. DeMatteis has a hard-on for Thor. He also wrote Chaos War: Thor.

One of the few saving graces of that awful event.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
The Barricade was meant to lock the Other out.
http://i47.tinypic.com/ei43di.jpg

If it broke, it meant that they would fight each other.

And here the Other says that he will destroy the barricade and take what's his. If destroying the Barricade means destroying the universe... then what's he going to take?
http://i49.tinypic.com/2dl1zxd.jpg

All in all, the only thing attributed to the barrier is that it would free the Other forever which would cause them to fight.

A doorway was torn open which rendered him able to enter the 616 universe before that's brought up...

The Surfer and Scrier built the barricade back in SS vol. 3, destroying it isn't what threatened reality.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
The Barricade was meant to lock the Other out.
http://i47.tinypic.com/ei43di.jpg

If it broke, it meant that they would fight each other.

And here the Other says that he will destroy the barricade and take what's his. If destroying the Barricade means destroying the universe... then what's he going to take?
http://i49.tinypic.com/2dl1zxd.jpg

All in all, the only thing attributed to the barrier is that it would free the Other forever which would cause them to fight.

A doorway was torn open which rendered him able to enter the 616 universe before that's brought up...

This . Although I have to add that Scrier also mention's(on pg16) that Asgard's displacement weakened the barricade , giving the Other his opportunity(to strike) .
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/6454/scrierreveals.jpg

now we know for sure that chaos king was attacking the multiverse and not the universe. per oblivions words "he came so Very close"

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
now we know for sure that chaos king was attacking the multiverse and not the universe. per oblivions words "he came so Very close"
Doesn't mean anything much really. Oblivion is insane, his idea of "very close" might just mean that CK was destroying 616 and that it would have triggered some wider conflagration.


Sadly, the whole CW/CK affair is the most horrible legacy Pak could have left behind, after the masterful work with Hulk (and also, afterwards with Hercules).

whatever. the miniutae that we sometimes look for in the forum wrecks stories. maybe that was the first appearance of "multi-oblivion!!1!"

marvel's f'd up cosmology aside: i thought the issue was awesome!! i think the point of the entire issue was to take it with something of a grain of salt. i'd be careful attributing any official retcons here. it was made abundantly clear over and over that scrier is perhaps the LEAST reliable of narrators and his word is not to be trusted. in fact the only LESS reliable narrator--we are led to believe--is oblivion himself. i think it was very cleverly written. a great, fun story that can be utterly undone at any point by simply saying any of them lied about it! it's been a long time since i was entertained by a book like that--and at least the battle lived up to the hype unlike the sh!t with odin and galactus. the other versions of thor and ss were uber cool too.

i love scrier, enjoyed learning he is as old as the multiverse and as powerful as i'd hoped they'd make him. and hope to see a lot more of him.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
now we know for sure that chaos king was attacking the multiverse and not the universe. per oblivions words "he came so Very close"

He also said Galactus was close when fighting the Scrier and the Other, so logically Galactus is multiversal.

whats the solicits for 2

It was an annual.

so whats the solicit for annual 2?

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
whats the solicits for 2

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
so whats the solicit for annual 2? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/iceman2456/scottpilgrimblamkill.gif

can someone answer the damn question?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
can someone answer the damn question? As soon as you find your damn brain

WTF just give me an answer.

Wait about a year.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
WTF just give me an answer. Heres my answer
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/iceman2456/sonicboom.gif