Silver Surfer vs The Avengers

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Mumrik
Yes who would win, a fully powered Silver Surfer at the height of his power or all of the avengers going at him at once?

Digi
You have to establish which Avengers lineup.

And since most include Thor, nearly every version of the Avengers win.

JakeTheBank
Thor solos.

Good match.

Mumrik
Lol Thor can't solo the silver Surfer. What you on? Without his hammer Thor is nothing. And ss could easily take control of it.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Mumrik
Lol Thor can't solo the silver Surfer. What you on? Without his hammer Thor is nothing. And ss could easily take control of it.

Except all the times Thor has beaten him or looked superior to Surfer, amirite? Surfer isn't controlling Mjolnir at all, let alone "easily", either.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor solos.

Good match.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by Mumrik
Lol Thor can't solo the silver Surfer. What you on? Without his hammer Thor is nothing. And ss could easily take control of it.

Yeah, he could do it very easily indeed:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/259/mightythor10thegroupmeg.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/837/mightythor10thegroupmeg.jpg

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/406/mightythor10thegroupmeg.jpg

In fact, it also looks like Thor's hammer might travel faster than the SS.

Dream Stuff
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
In fact, it also looks like Thor's hammer might travel faster than the SS.

You got that from pages showing the hammer taking off, Surfer having time to say bye to Loki before going after it and still managing to follow closely behind?

TheGodKiller
W/ Thor , Avengers .

W/O Thor , Avengers via Black Panther putting an armbar on the Surfer .

Sr J-Bieb
If it's Avengers Assembled, he would do it...

If not for Cap and Hawkeye.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by Dream Stuff
You got that from pages showing the hammer taking off, Surfer having time to say bye to Loki before going after it and still managing to follow closely behind?

Surfer also tried to lift it, and he couldn't. I was refuting the claim that the SS could easily take control of the hammer, which is clearly not the case.

TheRavager
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Surfer also tried to lift it, and he couldn't. I was refuting the claim that the SS could easily take control of the hammer, which is clearly not the case.

Well, we know he can't physically lift the hammer even with extreme strength amping, which shouldn't be a surprise as even the Hulk has also consistently failed to do so.

There are other means of taking control of the hammer though, even though non-continuity, What If #41 (What if the Avengers had fought Galactus?) showed a feasible method of doing so.

Digi
Originally posted by TheRavager
Well, we know he can't physically lift the hammer even with extreme strength amping, which shouldn't be a surprise as even the Hulk has also consistently failed to do so.

There are other means of taking control of the hammer though, even though non-continuity, What If #41 (What if the Avengers had fought Galactus?) showed a feasible method of doing so.

Key words: "What If" and "not continuity"

Pillar refuted the claim that Surfer could easily control the hammer. The comment "So fast" also implies that their speeds are at least similar. Do you refute either of those statements?

TheRavager
Originally posted by Digi
Key words: "What If" and "not continuity"

Which is why I stated them to begin with.



Pillar refuted the claim that Surfer could control the hammer with raw physical strength. Controlling the hammer will never be easy for Surfer, but SHOULD be possible via means other than raw strength.

"So fast" implies that the Surfer was mightily impressed with the hammer's speed, but the simple fact of the matter is that the Surfer closed in on the hammer despite the hammer having a sizable head start.

JakeTheBank
Honestly, Surfer, at best, couple hope to keep the hammer encased in a force field (we've seen what happens next) or attempt to displace it in another dimension or something (we've seen Mjolnir cleave through dimensions to get back to Thor). When Thor exerts his will and commands Mjolnir to come back to him, Surfer of all people isn't going to stop him.

In any case, dumb thread is dumb as Thor solos Surfer anyway and anything more than that turns this into a hilarious spite thread.

carver9
Thor or Hulk solos.

Mumrik
Lmao funny, Thor can't solo silver surfer in his strongest form. Neither can the hulk. By no means is it going to be easy to defeat Thor but....Hulk has beated Thor. What would stop silver surfer from doing the same if he was at the peak of his power and actually willing to use his full power output.

Silver surfer is the kind of philosphing good hero that never use his full power. But if he would I'm sure Thor wouldn't be able to solo him. Also half of Thor's powers are in his hammer. Without his hammer he is simply a strong guy. We are talking Surfer fully fed at the peak of his power and with no morals.

Thor's wins over Silver Surfer in earlier comic books are also quite PIS. Looking at surfer's powers alone I find it hard to imagine any hero be able to solo him...but of course Thor has always been a far more popular hero than the silver surfer so of course argue from their earlier fights.

But I'm quite sure you are wrong...surfer stomps thor. Then the question is if he could after that take out the avengers.

Endless Mike
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Except all the times Thor has beaten him or looked superior to Surfer, amirite? Surfer isn't controlling Mjolnir at all, let alone "easily", either.

That's because Thor is a warrior, while Surfer is a pacifist. If they were both going at each other with full intent to kill, I would bet on Surfer every time.

Still I doubt he can take a team consisting of Thor, Tony, Hulk, and others (including possibly Sentry) at once

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Mumrik
Lmao funny, Thor can't solo silver surfer in his strongest form. Neither can the hulk. By no means is it going to be easy to defeat Thor but....Hulk has beated Thor. What would stop silver surfer from doing the same if he was at the peak of his power and actually willing to use his full power output.

Silver surfer is the kind of philosphing good hero that never use his full power. But if he would I'm sure Thor wouldn't be able to solo him. Also half of Thor's powers are in his hammer. Without his hammer he is simply a strong guy. We are talking Surfer fully fed at the peak of his power and with no morals.

Thor's wins over Silver Surfer in earlier comic books are also quite PIS. Looking at surfer's powers alone I find it hard to imagine any hero be able to solo him...but of course Thor has always been a far more popular hero than the silver surfer so of course argue from their earlier fights.

But I'm quite sure you are wrong...surfer stomps thor. Then the question is if he could after that take out the avengers.

K.

Here's a question for you to consider: what if, and bear with me, Thor was fighting to his maximum potential and not holding back (which he clearly does a majority of the time) too? Honestly can't tell if you're trolling here or if you legitimately think Surfer stands a snowball's chance in hell beating the Avengers when it's extremely debatable he'd beat Thor by himself (which he hasn't).

Mjolnir envy, eh? I don't see why people get so butthurt about Thor and start shouting "well, without his hammer he wouldn't be as formidable!!111". Okay? Surfer's not going to be able to disarm Thor long enough to beat him, let alone the rest of the team. Fact of the matter is that Thor's consistently looked superior to Norrin and it's not some kind of conspiracy due to Thor being "more popular", either. Even Norrin, for all his vaunted Power Cosmic, knows fully well the power of Mjolnir and Asgardian magic.

Not sure what's PIS about Thor beating a Surfer amped by Loki outside of you simply not liking that it happened.

Anyway, let's take a look at the people Surfer would have to beat:

http://marvel.wikia.com/List_of_Avengers_members

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Endless Mike
That's because Thor is a warrior, while Surfer is a pacifist. If they were both going at each other with full intent to kill, I would bet on Surfer every time.

Still I doubt he can take a team consisting of Thor, Tony, Hulk, and others (including possibly Sentry) at once

Surfer not wanting to fight or relishing combat doesn't make him less effective in a fight, especially when he can just incapacitate foes without much trouble. Surfer's pacifist nature is used like a crutch for why he doesn't beat Thor or look more awesome; it has no bearing on his power level which is still top tier.

Can Surfer possibly beat Thor? Sure. But evidence points to Thor being his better. Can Surfer beat Thor + the rest of the Avengers? Lmao, no, absolutely not. There's nothing to debate on that front.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by Endless Mike

Still I doubt he can take a team consisting of Thor, Tony, Hulk, and others (including possibly Sentry) at once

Doubt? There's no question he'd lose to that team. Saying otherwise is simply insane.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Doubt? There's no question he'd lose to that team. Saying otherwise is simply insane.

QFT.

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Mjolnir envy, eh? I don't see why people get so butthurt about Thor and start shouting "well, without his hammer he wouldn't be as formidable!!111".

I've noticed that too. The hammer is PART OF THOR. He's tied to it. It's like saying, Sentry vs Hal Jordan with no ring, Hulk vs Silver Surfer with no power cosmic, Martian Manhunter vs Superman with no yellow sun, Captain America vs Iron Man with no Armor....etc. What's the point?

JakeTheBank
Basically, the "point" is just to attempt to downplay Thor by attributing most of his best feats as being used with Mjolnir...which no one is denying to begin with. no expression

Disarming Mjolnir is a tried and true debating tactic when arguing against him, but really, in a forum fight devoid of plot device 60 second weaknesses or PIS, not many people are going to be able to disarm him long enough to take advantage.

Mumrik
I think it's safe to assume that if Silver actually wanted to he could squash Thor like a bug. In all their encounters Surfer has always told Thor to stop. Like warned him, Surfer isn't the kind of hero that kills or does so willingly. But in a scenario were he is bloodlusted I think he'd defeat Thor easily.

As for the avengers, well that I think depends on who is in it. He definetely takes out the Hulk, Iron man, Captain america etc. But I'm not so sure about the others. They could overwhelm him or maybe trap him somehow.

PillarofOsiris
At this point the hammer is tied to him. If it's broken he dies. The hammer is like another arm, or an organ. There's no point separating the two.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Mumrik
I think it's safe to assume that if Silver actually wanted to he could squash Thor like a bug. In all their encounters Surfer has always told Thor to stop. Like warned him, Surfer isn't the kind of hero that kills or does so willingly. But in a scenario were he is bloodlusted I think he'd defeat Thor easily.

As for the avengers, well that I think depends on who is in it. He definetely takes out the Hulk, Iron man, Captain america etc. But I'm not so sure about the others. They could overwhelm him or maybe trap him somehow.

Surfer tells Thor to stop because he's getting his ass kicked. This pacifist excuse is really old. Surfer, for not wanting to spill blood, can still defend himself and stop beings without grievously harming them if he's able to. He's still a high herald with absurd power. Trying to spin every time he looked inferior to Thor is ridiculous.

Surfer can't even beat the Classic Avengers line-up, let alone all of them. I mean, shit, Thor + virtually anyone would beat Surfer.

All of these posts of your beg the question which comics are you basing this Surfer squashes Thor like a bug fantasy scenario from, let alone make a thread where, in your mind, Surfer stands a decent chance against all of Earth's Mightiest Heroes at once?

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by Mumrik
I think it's safe to assume that if Silver actually wanted to he could squash Thor like a bug. In all their encounters Surfer has always told Thor to stop. Like warned him, Surfer isn't the kind of hero that kills or does so willingly. But in a scenario were he is bloodlusted I think he'd defeat Thor easily.

As for the avengers, well that I think depends on who is in it. He definetely takes out the Hulk, Iron man, Captain america etc. But I'm not so sure about the others. They could overwhelm him or maybe trap him somehow.

You obviously have a lot to learn about comics if you think he could beat Thor easily. An amped Surfer fought a holding back Thor (and SS admitted Thor held back) and Thor beat him. Thor's beaten the Surfer when the Surfer had help. Recently, he dented in the Surfer's head, and pretty much stalemated him while he was injured before the fight. I could be wrong, but to my knowledge, SS has never beaten Thor, nor had any advantage over him for any extended length of time in a fight.

The Surfer has one of the worst glass jaws in comics. He is horrible at taking physical punishment, and things like laser even really F him up. Thor's energy manipulation is just about as good at the Surfers. His hammer can move close to his speed. Thor has many trans level feats, and Thor's fought and defeated characters well beyond the SS in power. Hell, Thor has driven off SS's master a couple of times (whereas SS has been dismissed by Odin as a bug), and cracked his helmet twice that I know of.

So tell me, what makes you think the SS stomps Thor?

JayDaDon
It annoys me how Thor does so well against surfer and then is hindered by hulk or tutinax( surfer would have waxed tutinax's ass unquestionably)but it is what it is. Thor vs surfer is a fight by itself, so Thor with help won't go well for surfer.

Mumrik
As I said Thor is being blown by the writers. Let's admit it huh? Surfer has never been a very popular hero in comparison to the likes of Thor. As for impressive feats, Surfer has defeated elder gods...that alone says something about his capability of controlling Thor's hammer.

Also yes you maybe don't want to accept it but he is a pacifict. When have you seen Surfer actually use his full power output? All he usually uses is his cosmic beams and speed on his board. But we all know he could manipulatem matter transform himself into almost anything. Increase his strength to be far stronger than Thor. His powers has a limit, but they are as close as one can get to elder god powers....

And no in his fights with Thor Surfer has always held back. He has never actually tried to kill Thor. And if he has...like being ampted by Loki for example and lost. Well it's PIS, I think it's time you fanboys actually admit that...

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Mumrik
As I said Thor is being blown by the writers. Let's admit it huh? Surfer has never been a very popular hero in comparison to the likes of Thor. As for impressive feats, Surfer has defeated elder gods...that alone says something about his capability of controlling Thor's hammer.

Also yes you maybe don't want to accept it but he is a pacifict. When have you seen Surfer actually use his full power output? All he usually uses is his cosmic beams and speed on his board. But we all know he could manipulatem matter transform himself into almost anything. Increase his strength to be far stronger than Thor. His powers has a limit, but they are as close as one can get to elder god powers....

And no in his fights with Thor Surfer has always held back. He has never actually tried to kill Thor. And if he has...like being ampted by Loki for example and lost. Well it's PIS, I think it's time you fanboys actually admit that...

Lol? Really? That's your rebuttal? That the writers are "blowing" Thor? So that invalidates all of Thor's feats, huh? Thor fights Skyfathers and Elder Gods habitually and does well if not win. And Surfer's high end feats don't translate into him overcoming Odin's enchantment and controlling Mjolnir. Get real.

So basically, you want us to imagine a version of Silver Surfer that doesn't exist on panel and is in line with your thoughts on how he should be portrayed. If Surfer could amp himself to be "far stronger than Thor" (lol btw) that sure would have came in handy all the times Thor was beating the crap out of him. And we have seen Surfer cut loose before, so the idea that he never invokes his full power is a myth.

You don't like that Thor beat an amped Surfer, so it's PIS? Gotcha.

leonidas
^ psst. don't feed it......

PillarofOsiris
Originally posted by JakeTheBank


You don't like that Thor beat an amped Surfer, so it's PIS? Gotcha.

Don't you mean a holding back Thor fighting a basically all out amped Surfer who admitted Thor was more powerful?

JakeTheBank
To be fair to Surfer, by feats, he's certainly more fomidable nowdays than back then. Of course, so is Thor.

The best argument a pro-Surfer poster could feasibly make is that Surfer held his own against Thor in the pages of the Mighty Thor and was holding back whereas Thor was fully prepared to kill him. The fight ended before it could escalate as Surfer's anger had finally peaked. Of course, some people use that as clear evidence that Surfer would have eventually won decisively, which is preposterous.

In any case, Thor/Surfer is a competitive fight with Thor getting the majority imo. Adding any more Avengers let alone an entire roster of them is Lawl City.

Mumrik
Dealing with some hardcore fanboys here....you overestimate Thor. He has been beaten by Hulk before. In fact, he isn't even in SS's league. If you are going to argue like that you could be arguing for Green lanter > Surfer too. That is basically the same as saying Thor > Surfer....

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Mumrik
Dealing with some hardcore fanboys here....you overestimate Thor. He has been beaten by Hulk before. In fact, he isn't even in SS's league. If you are going to argue like that you could be arguing for Green lanter > Surfer too. That is basically the same as saying Thor > Surfer....

What? laughing out loud

He's beaten Hulk as well and has beaten people far more formidable than the Hulk. He's also beaten Surfer before, more than once, which is something you either don't get or don't want to get.

Thor's not in Surfer's league? eek! Funny because Silver Surfer himself would disagree with that.

A Green Lantern could beat Surfer, actually. Hal/Kyle would put up a good fight. Alan would "Book of Willpower" him.

I'd suggest reading more Thor comics before you make these wild claims.

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