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Both get 1 year of prep

This is Thanos with his latest upgrades but with no artifacts such as the HOTU but he has all his upgrades

This is classic strange with all his artifacts such as the EYE and cape. ETC

Thanos stomps.

Dr. Strange wins, with ease.

Originally posted by cdtm
Dr. Strange wins, with ease.

Thanos, of course.

Sigh.................................Fart.

Off the bat, the 1 year of prep is ridiculous. No one ever has that long in comics, and it's kind of impossible to speculate with that much time. Realistically, if they went hardcore with prep, they could both, in theory, come into the fight with abstract-busting capability. So it really takes their base powers off the table quite a bit.

Originally posted by Digi
Off the bat, the 1 year of prep is ridiculous. No one ever has that long in comics, and it's kind of impossible to speculate with that much time. Realistically, if they went hardcore with prep, they could both, in theory, come into the fight with abstract-busting capability. So it really takes their base powers off the table quite a bit.

It might take Doctor Strange a year to find Squirrel Girl.

Thanos w/ prep steals Stranges mystical power.

Originally posted by Digi
Off the bat, the 1 year of prep is ridiculous. No one ever has that long in comics, and it's kind of impossible to speculate with that much time. Realistically, if they went hardcore with prep, they could both, in theory, come into the fight with abstract-busting capability. So it really takes their base powers off the table quite a bit. Darkseid prep'ed against the earth gods centuries ahead b4 he ever had to fight them by convincing them to split.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Thanos w/ prep steals Stranges mystical power.

How exactly, especially against a similarly prepped Strange?

I don't necessarily disagree. But when people make claims in prep-matches, I sometimes cringe at the lack of justification. You still need to know the means by which he accomplishes the feat.

Originally posted by Digi
How exactly, especially against a similarly prepped Strange?



What has Strange done w/ prep though, when compared to Thanos?

Originally posted by Classic NES
What has Strange done w/ prep though, when compared to Thanos?

This, deliberately or unknowingly, is trying to deflect the burden of proof away from you. You're the one who made a positive claim. The burden is upon you.

What has Thanos done that doesn't involve artifact retrieval (banned by the OP) that makes you think he'd casually drain classic Strange? I'm not saying he doesn't have a feat at this level, I'm just saying that you need to provide it before your claim can be taken seriously.

Because I don't care about the outcome here, I just enjoy trying to inspire critical thought and reasonable justification to opinions. You may have both in this situation, but you have yet to provide them.

Originally posted by Digi


What has Thanos done that doesn't involve artifact retrieval (banned by the OP) that makes you think he'd casually drain classic Strange?

He has high intellect and is a master mind. Granted his planning generally involves procuring artifacts of immeasurable power. He still seems like he would do better than Strange imo. Since to my knowledge Strange has done nothing worth mentioning with prep.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Since to my knowledge Strange has done nothing worth mentioning with prep.

Well, let's look at these statements individually.

Originally posted by Classic NES
He has high intellect and is a master mind.

No objection.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Granted his planning generally involves procuring artifacts of immeasurable power.

You begin to see my point, I hope. Your first statement, while true, is not an a priori victory for Thanos.

Originally posted by Classic NES
He still seems like he would do better than Strange imo.

This is an opinion. Granted, it's not an unreasonable opinion. But in light of your original statement that Thanos drains Strange's power and steals it from him, this does not constitute even the beginning of a defense of that statement.

Thus, you can reasonably hold that you think Thanos would do better, but must concede that we lack evidence to justify the utter steal-stomp that you led with.

Again, evidence to support the earlier statement may exist. I don't think it does, personally, not without lopsided prep for Thanos (which this is not). But the point is, no evidence has been produced.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Since to my knowledge Strange has done nothing worth mentioning with prep.

I won't be as cruel as cdtm's smilie, but this does reveal a lack of knowledge about Strange. He possesses many powerful prep feats.

...

So, to drive my point home with an example, this is why Reed is so powerful in fights. We tacitly assume prep-domination from many characters, but often times without the proper justification or without an idea of what exactly they would do in prep. Reed's one of the few with numerous Skyfather+ feats of prep that are easily identifiable, whereas "They just do" or some variation thereof does not cut it for most.

Strange if Thanos does get his hands on any cosmic artifacts

Originally posted by Classic NES
Since to my knowledge Strange has done nothing worth mentioning with prep. First of all, his is a bad sign.

Anyway. This is a tough one. These are 2 characters that float all over at the top of the pond. Both have shown power and ability that can place them high in the food chain. They can, pretty much, hang with almost anybody.

And both have MONSTROUS showings.

IMHO, very evenly matched.

The scary thing would be if they ever teamed up.

I hate any thread that has "with prep" in it.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I hate any thread that has "with prep" in it.

Especially ones with long term prep like this.
With one year there are too many variables.

Doc was able to counter Infinity Gems with only a few minutes prep.

How much "prep" did it take for Thanos to obtain the HOTU?

Originally posted by Glorificus
How much "prep" did it take for Thanos to obtain the HOTU?

And once it came to light that he was basically being used by TOOA as a tool to fix creation, you have to wonder how much credit he should really get..

That is, it's to his credit TOOA thought he was the man for this job, but it also begs the question of how much influence the Marvel supreme being exerted in seeing him get the power to perform his task..

Originally posted by Digi
But in light of your original statement that Thanos drains Strange's power and steals it from him, this does not constitute even the beginning of a defense of that statement.

Thus, you can reasonably hold that you think Thanos would do better, but must concede that we lack evidence to justify the utter steal-stomp that you led with.



For the sake of clarification for this thread. I know Thanos w/ prep in this match bares artifact theft. But, what about Stranges artifacts? Is it out of bounds to say he can take them?


Originally posted by Digi
Again, evidence to support the earlier statement may exist. I don't think it does, personally, not without lopsided prep for Thanos (which this is not). But the point is, no evidence has been produced.


But, is it lopsided if Thanos can do more with prep than strange? I believe he can, but I could be wrong. I just want proof that it's not uneven prep like I think it is.



Originally posted by Digi

I won't be as cruel as cdtm's smilie, but this does reveal a lack of knowledge about Strange. He possesses many powerful prep feats.



It does, which is why I asked what he's done. Because I genuinely don't know.

Originally posted by Classic NES

It does, which is why I asked what he's done. Because I genuinely don't know.

If you said that, I wouldn't have given my "cruel laugh".

Generally speaking, using the line "To my knowledge" implies you have a certain degree of familiarity with the subject.

Originally posted by Classic NES
For the sake of clarification for this thread. I know Thanos w/ prep in this match bares artifact theft. But, what about Stranges artifacts? Is it out of bounds to say he can take them?

No, because it explicitly says in the OP that he has them.

srug

Originally posted by Classic NES
But, is it lopsided if Thanos can do more with prep than strange? I believe he can, but I could be wrong. I just want proof that it's not uneven prep like I think it is.

A fair question. It would take some time to put something together, and others might do a better job of it than I would. If I have some time I'll dig through some of his prep feats. Until then, you have my word that he is not without high-end feats, and we know (per the OP) that he would have his standard artifacts.

However, to remain clear, at this point you have provided exactly the same amount of evidence for Thanos's superiority: zero.

Originally posted by Digi
No, because it explicitly says in the OP that he has them.

srug


But, I mean't that if Thanos can plan a way to steal them from Strange.


Originally posted by Digi

However, to remain clear, at this point you have provided exactly the same amount of evidence for Thanos's superiority: zero.

Lets discuss that now.

Originally posted by cdtm
If you said that, I wouldn't have given my "cruel laugh".

Generally speaking, using the line "To my knowledge" implies you have a certain degree of familiarity with the subject.

Maybe I should say "As far as I know" ?

Originally posted by Classic NES
But, I mean't that if Thanos can plan a way to steal them from Strange.




Lets discuss that now. Does Thanos have anything for Steve to steal?


I'm pretty sure Strange has pilfered an artifact or 2.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Maybe I should say "As far as I know" ?

Same thing.

Originally posted by Classic NES
But, I mean't that if Thanos can plan a way to steal them from Strange.

Doubtful, not when in his own prep and generally has complete mastery over the artifacts. Loki tried to steal some of Strange's swag at one point. Iirc, he nullified some of them with a thought and ended up taking them back.

The Achilles' Heel in this line of thinking is that you still have to provide the "how" of Thanos stealing them. Saying that he might or he could doesn't count for anything.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Lets discuss that now.

Sure, let's.

As for power stealing, Strange does have feats of this. He steals the power of an Infinite, who most would say is at least at Thanos' level.

He also absorbed and stole a considerable amount of power from Shuma Gorath, and it was stated that he had the power to destroy galaxies afterward. Most would put Shuma > or = Thanos.

He's either stalemated or defended against for long periods of time the following entities: Galactus, the IG, and LT.

In a straight prep feat, he conjured a seemingly endless swarm of demons to fight alongside him.

And lest we think Strange couldn't hurt Thanos outright, we have at least some circumstantial evidence that he could:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/468/surfstrange20wu.jpg/
With no prep, he quells both Surfer and Thanos with one blast.

Indirect evidence also suggests that he could, since the beings he normally engages with (Dormammu, Shuma, other cosmic entities) are at least on Thanos's level, and he has numerous planet-busting or better feats of raw power.

This is all just from the first 4-5 pages of his respect thread. There's more, but those are some highlights I managed to pick out.

...

So I think the real question is: what is Thanos's defense against power stealing in a prep fight?

"Prep"

This might need to be defined and, possibly even limited. Especially since, in this thread, is seems to be veering toward the collection, (via stealing) of artifacts and more power.

I have also seen it hinted that Thanos has already shown he is capable of stealing "ultimate power" several times, which, I'm sure, is on it's way to trumping Strange somehow.

So, I thought I would cut to the chase, and say that there are many positive characters who would be capable of duplicating these power acquisition feats, but they do not have the same personality-makeup as Thanos, or thirst for power.



The point to my previous post, was to point out that Strange obviously has the same ability and experiences as Thanos, in some respect, when it comes to targeting and gaining power and items of power.

Because, after all, without this, what is Dr. Strange?

He's just a "guy".



In short, I think we have a couple characters here, that could, pretty much, target and steal, or gain via other means, or learn, etc, etc, etc, almost ANYTHING they set their sights on.

The biggest difference, is that Thanos, being the "Mad Titan" and all, has acted upon his insane thirst for power and Death, wit zero restraint. This has resulted in him attaining the highest of powers in the past.

But, Strange would be capable of much of the same activity.


So, if "prep" turns into a contest of stealing powers and artifacts, this thread will eventually run amok.

Originally posted by Digi
Doubtful, not when in his own prep and generally has complete mastery over the artifacts.

My understanding of this thread is that they get a year tops not that they would meet after years time.


Originally posted by Digi

The Achilles' Heel in this line of thinking is that you still have to provide the "how" of Thanos stealing them. Saying that he might or he could doesn't count for anything.

But, prep is a plot device though. It's both the solution and the methodology, at least that's how it is used in debates. I've never seen anyone try explain what say reed does with any given prep time, rather the word prep itself seems to be self-explanatory. I have the same issue you have with it, but I just didn't bother because that's what everyone else does.



Originally posted by Digi

So I think the real question is: what is Thanos's defense against power stealing in a prep fight?

But, what is Strange gonna steal from Thanos?

Originally posted by Horrificus
"Prep"

This might need to be defined

That's the problem with alot of threads. Nothing is ever specified, just implied.

Originally posted by Classic NES
But, prep is a plot device though. It's both the solution and the methodology, at least that's how it is used in debates. I've never seen anyone try explain what say reed does with any given prep time, rather the word prep itself seems to be self-explanatory. I have the same issue you have with it, but I just didn't bother because that's what everyone else does.

Everyone else is wrong then. Think about it. How many times have people said "Oh, {X} clearly wins with prep," without having the slightest clue how they do it? How many time are those people wrong? The answer is: we don't know, because the "{X} obviously wins" people aren't thinking critically about the match.

Dig deeper. Be better.

Originally posted by Classic NES
But, what is Strange gonna steal from Thanos?



I assumed he'd steal all that awesomeness you have him cooking up in prep.

Anyway, I showed you Strange's prep-cock. What does Thanos have that I'm not aware of, other than building the IG and yoinking cosmic cubes Scooby-Doo-villain style?

Originally posted by cdtm
And once it came to light that he was basically being used by TOOA as a tool to fix creation, you have to wonder how much credit he should really get..

That is, it's to his credit TOOA thought he was the man for this job, but it also begs the question of how much influence the Marvel supreme being exerted in seeing him get the power to perform his task..

Being "used as a tool" is a metaphor and shouldn't be taken as literal. It's not like the TOAA was controlling Thanos' body and mind like a puppet. For example, if I trick my friend into moving a boulder, I've used him as a tool, but his feat of lifting the boulder is still his. Likewise, Thanos being tricked by the TOAA to fix the flaw in the universe doesn't negate all the planning, intelligence, will-power Thanos used to accomplish it.

Originally posted by Digi
Everyone else is wrong then. Think about it. How many times have people said "Oh, {X} clearly wins with prep," without having the slightest clue how they do it? How many time are those people wrong? The answer is: we don't know, because the "{X} obviously wins" people aren't thinking critically about the match.

I agree 100% but you can't fight city hall. People don't even factor averages anymore. They go for high-end. I dunno whatelse I can do.


Originally posted by Digi
Anyway, I showed you Strange's prep-cock. What does Thanos have that I'm not aware of, other than building the IG and yoinking cosmic cubes Scooby-Doo-villain style?

We know his feats, do you think it's better or worst than strange?

Originally posted by Classic NES
We know his feats, do you think it's better or worst than strange?

We do? I haven't seen a single one listed outside the artifact grabbing.

Was he the one that detained Galactus in the Annihilation war? If so, there's another. He's out-thought a lot of people, but I can't think of much else where he brings a demonstrable upgrade to a fight as a result of prep. I could be wrong.

Originally posted by Digi
We do? I haven't seen a single one listed outside the artifact grabbing.

Was he the one that detained Galactus in the Annihilation war? If so, there's another. He's out-thought a lot of people, but I can't think of much else where he brings a demonstrable upgrade to a fight as a result of prep. I could be wrong.

Outside of artifact grabbing Strange is much more powerful.

Originally posted by Classic NES
Outside of artifact grabbing Strange is much more powerful.

Agreed. Though I don't think it would be written that way in a comic, even with Classic Strange. Based on feats though, Strange has it imo.

Originally posted by Digi
Agreed. Though I don't think it would be written that way in a comic, even with Classic Strange. Based on feats though, Strange has it imo.

Why is current strange so weak? Is it because he isn't Sorcerer Supreme anymore?

Originally posted by Classic NES
Why is current strange so weak? Is it because he isn't Sorcerer Supreme anymore?

Yeah, it's complicated. But basically it was a very explicit nerf. Happened somewhere right around Civil War. He's no longer Sorcerer Supreme, and has been written as jobbing to metas more than once.

For a while Brother Voodoo was SS, but then he died in a New Avengers comic. I don't know who is currently.