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Hello !

I'm now Christian but not as you think I'm Episcopalian
So Why I'm a One

1- I'm free to think of What I want

2-they Just Give me Guide Lines not orders

3- I can believe in Pre-marital sex

4- I can argue in theology with Pastor (priest) as I want

5- I'm not a bad follower of Christ If I didn't Go to Church every sunday

6- I can be Secular (I'm)

7-I can Believe in Evolutionm and the complete Science

8-Bible for me is not a science book

9-I don't have to Believe in bullshit (NDE is related to After death and so on)

10 I'm free just it

11- I can drink as I want

12-wear (dress) as I want

13-Divorce and remarry (proved)

14- God is love not strict rules ( he have a little bit they are so good )

15 - Grammar is unrestricted.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
15 - Grammar is unrestricted.

if you're making laugh of my grammar I'm notanative speaker and even natives don't use it

but I think my Grammar Typos are little


16- I can believe in Evolution

I've replied to you beneath each statement:

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
Hello !

I'm now Christian but not as you think I'm Episcopalian
So Why I'm a One

1- I'm free to think of What I want
So is anyone

2-they Just Give me Guide Lines not orders
So do most religions

3- I can believe in Pre-marital sex
This doesn't prohibit you from many religions

4- I can argue in theology with Pastor (priest) as I want
I was Catholic and used to do this.

5- I'm not a bad follower of Christ If I didn't Go to Church every sunday
That's pretty subjective

6- I can be Secular (I'm)
Being religious kind of precludes you from being "secular" in any meaningful sense, so I'd call you out on this one and ask for justification.

7-I can Believe in Evolutionm and the complete Science
So can many religions. You seem to be comparing this to fundamentalism, which isn't necessarily a majority.

8-Bible for me is not a science book
Let's be clear - it's not a science book period.

9-I don't have to Believe in bullshit (NDE is related to After death and so on)
Lol. This is laughably vague. I'd say Christians in general believe in bullshit, so it's really just about where you draw the line.

10 I'm free just it
Incoherent phrase

11- I can drink as I want
So can most

12-wear (dress) as I want
So can most

13-Divorce and remarry (proved)
So?

14- God is love not strict rules ( he have a little bit they are so good )
This sounds like most peoples' God


This doesn't sound like a justification at all to me. You seem to compare it favorably to some impossibly backward stereotype of religion, not most real-life believers and their practices and beliefs.

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
if you're making laugh of my grammar I'm notanative speaker and even natives don't use it

but I think my Grammar Typos are little

Several of your typos are quite severe, #10 isn't even possible to understand and the use of (proved) after #13 doesn't make any sense.

In any event the justifications you give for being episcopalian are basically the same ones everyone gives for following their religion or philosophy. All of it boils down to "I agree with them" and "I've had good experiences with them". I've met Muslims (a religion you discarded) who gave me pretty much this exact list of reasons for why they converted to Islam.

He's 16 and an Arabic speaker, give him a damn break.

Revo, hw ibn elwes5a, msh kida?

Well I mean them literally no one say anything about me I don't say that They're the only Good but they work the best for me

Well most of Churches Won't bless all of this things (as of my Experience)

and most followers of them don't really follow them as in the book (it's an Egyptian saying and I don;t know if it's in English )

but for my typos I'm not a native speaker so it's Widely Expected and My English Course at school is just a bullshit !!

so sorry for my bad Grammar

ana ibn wes5a msh keda 3eeeb wla a?

yea I'm just 16 so my words may won't make any sense for you??

Hello ! I'm now Christian but not as you think I'm Episcopalian So Why I'm a One
1- I'm free to think of What I want
So is anyone

"not in most religions even in Christianity"

2-they Just Give me Guide Lines not orders
So do most religions
"I mean by Guide Lines really General Guide Lines"

3- I can believe in Pre-marital sex
This doesn't prohibit you from many religions
"it's not prohibted in the church I mean"

4- I can argue in theology with Pastor (priest) as I want
I was Catholic and used to do this.
"so it's ok but this is rarely happening"

5- I'm not a bad follower of Christ If I didn't Go to Church every sunday
That's pretty subjective
"Not Comparison"
6- I can be Secular (I'm)
Being religious kind of precludes you from being "secular" in any meaningful sense, so I'd call you out on this one and ask for justification.
"it's based on my Experience I don't aim for Comparison and most Churchs don't being Secular"
7-I can Believe in Evolutionm and the complete Science
So can many religions. You seem to be comparing this to fundamentalism, which isn't necessarily a majority.
"What religions are talking about Exactly?If you mean Buddhism it's not really a religion"
8-Bible for me is not a science book Let's be clear - it's not a science book period.
9-I don't have to Believe in bullshit (NDE is related to After death and so on) Lol. This is laughably vague. I'd say Christians in general believe in bullshit, so it's really just about where you draw the line.
10 I'm free just it
Incoherent phrase
11- I can drink as I want
So can most
"they would be bad followers in most Churchs,yet I don't aim for Comparison"
12-wear (dress) as I want
So can most
"I know I mean they're not Strict"
13-Divorce and remarry (proved)
So?
"Well most Churchs doesn't like that"
14- God is love not strict rules ( he have a little bit they are so good )
This sounds like most peoples' God
"this wasn't comparison"


I was just trying to Clear my point I'm not seeking for Comparison Here and most of people don't act as their religion exactly says?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In any event the justifications you give for being episcopalian are basically the same ones everyone gives for following their religion or philosophy.

No they aren't. Very few religions can claim to have as much freedom as his does.


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
All of it boils down to "I agree with them" and "I've had good experiences with them".

No it doesn't. It boils down to, "God is love. Love God. All the rest is fluff."


Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I've met Muslims (a religion you discarded) who gave me pretty much this exact list of reasons for why they converted to Islam.

That seems highly unlikely and you're most likely exaggerating severely. That or the person you met was exaggerating.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That seems highly unlikely and you're most likely exaggerating severely. That or the person you met was exaggerating.

It turns out people form their opinions of their religion without consulting you for approval. I know that can be a hard concept.

Lots of Muslims follow Islam because they think it is a good religion that espouses many of the principles TBMR listed here. I assume you wouldn't count those people as real Muslims, though, or their religions as real Islam.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It turns out people form their opinions of their religion without consulting you for approval. I know that can be a hard concept.


"You" as in "me" or "you" as in ambiguous "you". Because that's important.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Lots of Muslims follow Islam because they think it is a good religion that espouses many of the principles TBMR listed here. I assume you wouldn't count those people as real Muslims, though, or their religions as real Islam.

Find a single sect as loose as the one TBMR lists and I'll eat my words.

What is more likely is the individual is not following Islam, at all. But, instead, is just doing their own thing and just saying they are Muslim.


Before you cry "foul!", I have grown to appreciate Islam more and more, over the years. I am almost at the point of admiration for Islam.

Add to this "be forgiving and kind to all others" and it's a perfection.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
He's 16 and an Arabic speaker, give him a damn break.

This is difficult, because, sure, I'd like to give him a break. But at the same time, all of his justifications seem rather superfluous to the actual heart of Episcopalianism , and are just general statements that could be applied to a multitude of beliefs. Hell, most of them can be applied to atheism, suggesting he isn't what he is for strictly religious reasons.

My critical nature is itching to show him everything wrong with his statements. Language barrier or not, his adherence to a particular sect of Christianity seems rather shallow and uncritical to me.

Originally posted by Digi
My critical nature is itching to show him everything wrong with his statements.



I am glad that you have not gone into a lengthy diatribe, systematically destroying this young man's beliefs.


And, yes, his beliefs largely reflect my own and many atheists.


Originally posted by Arhael

Add to this "be forgiving and kind to all others" and it's a perfection.

To paraphrase Lutheranism, those would be "necessary" results of Loving God...er something.

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
if you're making laugh of my grammar I'm notanative speaker and even natives don't use it

but I think my Grammar Typos are little


16- I can believe in Evolution
You listed that twice.

But I'm very happy you believe in Evolution, cause it's fact.

However, have you considered atheism? You'll have even more freedom, and even less bullshit in your life...it's really a quite magnificent lack of belief.

Originally posted by Digi
This is difficult, because, sure, I'd like to give him a break. But at the same time, all of his justifications seem rather superfluous to the actual heart of Episcopalianism , and are just general statements that could be applied to a multitude of beliefs. Hell, most of them can be applied to atheism, suggesting he isn't what he is for strictly religious reasons.

My critical nature is itching to show him everything wrong with his statements. Language barrier or not, his adherence to a particular sect of Christianity seems rather shallow and uncritical to me.

Well that's the problem, isn't it? You can't ''show'' someone the way to think like you or to think so you'd agree with them. He's made a huge step in leaving a system of belief and taken one that is more suited to him. Not everyone is an atheist nor wants to be.
It reminds me of Christians who try to tell me why I'm wrong, or Muslims who tell me why their Islam is the right one and everyone else is wrong.

This is his belief, and yes language barrier should be taken into consideration, considering he got attacked about how his list ''doesn't make sense''.

When people here who accused him of poor English are able to articulate as well in Arabic as he can do in English, perhaps then we can speak about his language barrier.

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
ana ibn wes5a msh keda 3eeeb wla a?

yea I'm just 16 so my words may won't make any sense for you??
Huwa da alkal3m!!

La, la, ya m3lem. Enta cool, wallahi.

Shokran ya o5tchy

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It turns out people form their opinions of their religion without consulting you for approval. I know that can be a hard concept.

Lots of Muslims follow Islam because they think it is a good religion that espouses many of the principles TBMR listed here. I assume you wouldn't count those people as real Muslims, though, or their religions as real Islam.


Well It's not General I pointed to Some Specific reasons , If you ask the Sheikhs He'll tell you that are Kofar I was one of them but Left Islam When I found W#hat it teachs (Sunnites and Siites)

yea pretty sure that Islam people are free to wear what they want (in case of women)
yea Islam teachs that Evolution is true

yea Islam teachs freethinking yea Islam Beliefs in All Sects in Science but not as Much as you think

Islam teachs that I can I've four women and all I want from slaves SHIT

Originally posted by Digi
This is difficult, because, sure, I'd like to give him a break. But at the same time, all of his justifications seem rather superfluous to the actual heart of Episcopalianism , and are just general statements that could be applied to a multitude of beliefs. Hell, most of them can be applied to atheism, suggesting he isn't what he is for strictly religious reasons.

My critical nature is itching to show him everything wrong with his statements. Language barrier or not, his adherence to a particular sect of Christianity seems rather shallow and uncritical to me.

I know it can be Applied to Other Religions Specially Atheism but Atheism isn't Comfortable Because I believe that we some How Gonna make it to other Life

and there is some answers that requires God so I tried to get the best of Both worlds


trying to tell me what's wrong in What I written Is Cool but Give me damn break I'm not a Pastor and Why do you think it's shallow

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Well that's the problem, isn't it? You can't ''show'' someone the way to think like you or to think so you'd agree with them. He's made a huge step in leaving a system of belief and taken one that is more suited to him. Not everyone is an atheist nor wants to be.
It reminds me of Christians who try to tell me why I'm wrong, or Muslims who tell me why their Islam is the right one and everyone else is wrong.

This is his belief, and yes language barrier should be taken into consideration, considering he got attacked about how his list ''doesn't make sense''.

When people here who accused him of poor English are able to articulate as well in Arabic as he can do in English, perhaps then we can speak about his language barrier.

If something doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense. It's not an attack. Me saying a particular sentence is incoherent is just stating a fact. Language barrier or not, again, that gap needs to be bridged before we can have a conversation. I realize it's difficult, but the alternative is just to ignore him. srug

Also, don't get too hung up on the word "show." I'm aware you can't force feed anyone beliefs. It wasn't meant in that way; just a arbitrary word choice that I didn't think too hard about when writing that sentence.

Originally posted by dadudemon
And, yes, his beliefs largely reflect my own and many atheists.

See, that's the thing. If your justification for a particular sect is such that it could apply to almost anything, it's not really a justification for a sect anymore. "I can think for myself" isn't an endorsement of anyone denomination, for example. If you're a certain denomination, that kind of implies that there's differences that make it superior in your eyes. As such, I'd think that you'd have to focus on the difference to explain why you are one denomination and not another.

So I don't think most of his points are bad - many are quite good - but I also think they're largely irrespective of one's religion.

I didn't say only

most of them are applied to other religions but not all the things Which don't apply to other religion is a Credit to Mine But others should be said because it may not be a Good religion if it it wasn' there so I tried to Clarify them


and after all I'm not saying Hey be Episcoplalian but rather Why I like them it's not a Big thing

Because I believe that we all will get he Salvation !!

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
I didn't say only

most of them are applied to other religions but not all the things Which don't apply to other religion is a Credit to Mine But others should be said because it may not be a Good religion if it it wasn' there so I tried to Clarify them


and after all I'm not saying Hey be Episcoplalian but rather Why I like them it's not a Big thing

Because I believe that we all will get he Salvation !!

Fair enough.

Thanks Digi

Originally posted by Digi
If something doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense. It's not an attack. Me saying a particular sentence is incoherent is just stating a fact. Language barrier or not, again, that gap needs to be bridged before we can have a conversation. I realize it's difficult, but the alternative is just to ignore him. srug

Also, don't get too hung up on the word "show." I'm aware you can't force feed anyone beliefs. It wasn't meant in that way; just a arbitrary word choice that I didn't think too hard about when writing that sentence.



Originally posted by Digi
See, that's the thing. If your justification for a particular sect is such that it could apply to almost anything,


Well, we can stop right there because that's definitely not true of his statements. His belief system is hardly universal even among atheists and Episcopalians. Just because some atheists might find his beliefs compatible, doesn't mean even a simple minority of all those that identify as "atheist" will.

Originally posted by Digi
So I don't think most of his points are bad - many are quite good - but I also think they're largely irrespective of one's religion.

I do not. Some religions are quite adamant about being YEC. Some are quite adamant about following Papal Decrees. Still, others are adamant that you work on bettering yourself but it does not matter which path you take as long as it is moral and holy. His belief system is specific enough to exclude a majority of humans. It is still inclusive enough that many would feel comfortable in his system such as you and I.


Well...I can give you an anecdote to better make my point.


Mormons have not taken an official stance on how old the earth is or whether or not evolution is right. However, almost 75% of Mormons say they are YEC and don't believe in evolution...even when our leadership/upper clergy still debate it with each other (I do not know how some Mormons can take such definitive stance when not even our leadership disagrees...). So even inside of a doctrinal religion like Mormonism (LDS), there can be widely varying beliefs.


That anecdote is how I view his stance. Differing interpretations within his own religion.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, we can stop right there because that's definitely not true of his statements. His belief system is hardly universal even among atheists and Episcopalians. Just because some atheists might find his beliefs compatible, doesn't mean even a simple minority of all those that identify as "atheist" will.

Eh, whatever. All I know is, there's only two on his list that I can't say for myself. And one of those is because it's not a complete thought. Same for when I was Catholic, though it's a different 2 that I couldn't ascribe to. Any list of reasons that is ostensibly about why he's Episcopalian, as opposed to other denominations, should deal with why it is superior or better for him than other denominations. As it is, the statements are too vague to represent a comparison.

Like I said, though, most of list is cool in and of itself. Like, free thought, etc. Woo. I just don't see it as a justification for any denomination. I get that he likes it, which is cool, and they're valid reasons for liking it. They're just not valid reasons for liking it over many other potential worldviews.

I believe in God so Atheism doesn't work for me
I know I can believe in God Without a religion but I can't Accept that for me
and I want to be free and religion make a lot of rules so I ended Episcopalian

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
I know I can believe in God Without a religion but I can't Accept that for me and I want to be free and religion make a lot of rules so I ended Episcopalian

I understand where you are coming from, here. I have a lot of irritation with organized religion. Spirituality is definitely a personal journey. For some, organized religion is the key. For others, it's personal.

What is an Organised religion

Originally posted by TheBigManRevo
Hello !

I'm now Christian but not as you think I'm Episcopalian
So Why I'm a One

1- I'm free to think of What I want

2-they Just Give me Guide Lines not orders

3- I can believe in Pre-marital sex

4- I can argue in theology with Pastor (priest) as I want

5- I'm not a bad follower of Christ If I didn't Go to Church every sunday

6- I can be Secular (I'm)

7-I can Believe in Evolutionm and the complete Science

8-Bible for me is not a science book

9-I don't have to Believe in bullshit (NDE is related to After death and so on)

10 I'm free just it

11- I can drink as I want

12-wear (dress) as I want

13-Divorce and remarry (proved)

14- God is love not strict rules ( he have a little bit they are so good ) it seems like the reasons you list deal mostly with maintaining the type of freedom that is typically associated with secularism. what's missing from the list is any reason to believe in jesus christ as your personal lord and savior.

I believe he did and I just feel comfortable in this belief

I think you should go what makes you feel happiest.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I think you should go what makes you feel happiest.



Now you sound like a serial killer

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Now you sound like a serial killer

The typical smartass response to her statement is "child molester" or "Jew killer"...not serial killer. Jeez, get it right.

Both of you are on my hit list, as of now. essen23

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Both of you are on my hit list, as of now. essen23
I feel left out.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Several of your typos are quite severe, #10 isn't even possible to understand and the use of (proved) after #13 doesn't make any sense.

In any event the justifications you give for being episcopalian are basically the same ones everyone gives for following their religion or philosophy. All of it boils down to "I agree with them" and "I've had good experiences with them". I've met Muslims (a religion you discarded) who gave me pretty much this exact list of reasons for why they converted to Islam.

I'm surprised you posted that...