AVP - Something I have been wondering...

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Aquitaine
AVP. Now, I am expecting a lot of sensless bashing, but that will be ignored.

After watching it again recently, I couldn't help thinking that I wouldn't mind if the setting and time were changed, but the film essentially stayed the same the way it is in terms of plot and everything else.

For instance, set in the future on an iceworld with Space Marines, but essentially stayed the same otherwise. cool

jaden101
The problem with the AvP movies is that they always have to shoe horn in a human angle in order so that the audience have someone to relate to...It's not an entirely bad but in this case it doesn't work...There's plenty of examples where it does...The difference between the original Star Wars films and the prequel films is that the original had Luke Skywalker....the relatable character...The prequel trilogy doesn't have anyone.

But for an AvP film I'd be much happier watching a film with absolutely no dialogue and purely have Aliens and Predators tearing the living shit out each other in exceptionally cool and yellow and green gory bloody ways.

Kazenji
Originally posted by jaden101
The problem with the AvP movies is that they always have to shoe horn in a human angle in order so that the audience have someone to relate to.

Same deal with the Comics & Games.

roughrider
Stick to video games if you want hours of AVP entertainment with no sounds but explosions and the screams of alien dialogue. No one is going to spend a hundred million dollars on a film with no human characters or dialogue; the AVP army isn't big enough to make it profitable.

jaden101
Originally posted by roughrider
Stick to video games if you want hours of AVP entertainment with no sounds but explosions and the screams of alien dialogue. No one is going to spend a hundred million dollars on a film with no human characters or dialogue; the AVP army isn't big enough to make it profitable.

Wall-E had a budget of $180m and barely has a word spoken.

If it's done right, Whatever the genre, it can work.

Lord Shadow Z
Originally posted by roughrider
Stick to video games if you want hours of AVP entertainment with no sounds but explosions and the screams of alien dialogue. No one is going to spend a hundred million dollars on a film with no human characters or dialogue; the AVP army isn't big enough to make it profitable.

Well in one way I agree but in another I don't. I think it could be difficult to follow with no dialogue but then if you watched Predator with the mute button on you'd still get the general idea through the direction of the film (storyboarding plays a key part in that), body language and other tips. You're spot on in terms of appeal with respect to actors you won't ever see, just look at them removing masks/helmets all the time in CBMs.

For it to work you may need a human element to get it running - explain the situation, then remove the human element and through direction and other visual clues the message of the film could progress. If that doesn't work entirely on it's own then simply overlay subtitles over creatures sounds but don't do it in a corny way. Remember the scene in AVP2 where the Pred is tracking down, hunting and removing traces of the Aliens - that scene had no dialogue and it was clear what was happening.

Flyattractor
If they had actually stuck with the "Cowboys in Space" Orginal Story and its tone I think AVP could have been a great movie,but the powers that be Cheaped it up and made a classic turd of it.

mkt07
I stick to the video games to enjoy the AVP entertainment because it has no explosion and noise in it.

roughrider
Originally posted by jaden101
Wall-E had a budget of $180m and barely has a word spoken.



WALL-E himself was our human stand-in; he was capable of greater feeling and perception than almost all of the selfish human chacaters that came later. The film was also set on Earth so it's all about humans and our legacy.

You are not going to see an AVP movie where either race is standing in for us and giving us someone to identify with.

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by roughrider
No one is going to spend a hundred million dollars on a film with no human characters or dialogue; the AVP army isn't big enough to make it profitable.

Well apart from the human characters, Mel Gibson directed 2 marketable films that was completely told in a different dialect...

roughrider
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Well apart from the human characters, Mel Gibson directed 2 marketable films that was completely told in a different dialect...

To watch one movie that was, in essence, pornography for the devout Christian. The second one made much less impact.

Tzeentch._
Originally posted by jaden101
Wall-E had a budget of $180m and barely has a word spoken.

If it's done right, Whatever the genre, it can work. At least half of the entire movie involved being on a giant ship filled with walking, talking humans. One of the major characters in the film, the Captain, was a talking human.

Anyway, I agree with Rider. The human element is important if you want "the general public" to be interested.

While "too many ****ing humans" is certainly a valid criticism, the problem goes deeper than the human issue. The problem is more of how the humans are portrayed.

In the first AvP, the humans were relatively well-written but the xenos suffered from lack of attention. 2 out of the three predators were killed within 5 minutes of each other, and the remaining one was basically less than a sub-plot.

In AvP:R we had the opposite problem. There was a large plot surrounding the lone badass Predator and the aliens, but the humans were all ****ing annoying, terrible little bratty teenagers, which detracted from the film.

A good AvP movie needs to have a human protagonist on the level as Lexi (the black chick from AvP1, who I honestly enjoyed, she was decently attractive, and pretty capable considering the circumstances) or the crew from Predators (minus Morpheus and Trejo lol) mixed with the same "it's personal" level of predator/alien intensity that we saw in AvP:R... minus the retardo predalien sub-plot.

Robtard
AVP film could be done and done well without a single human. They'd just need to give the Predator's more depth.

I'd actually not mind seeing that and I'd insist they use subtitles when the Predator's talk instead of spoken English.

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Robtard
AVP film could be done and done well without a single human. They'd just need to give the Predator's more depth.

I'd actually not mind seeing that and I'd insist they use subtitles when the Predator's talk instead of spoken English.

The main problem is that a Predator movie is typically marketed to the teen/ young adult audience.

No matter how spectacular the action would be, the audience is going to get bored & restless if subtitles were used...especially a Friday or Saturday night screening.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by Robtard
AVP film could be done and done well without a single human. They'd just need to give the Predator's more depth.

I'd actually not mind seeing that and I'd insist they use subtitles when the Predator's talk instead of spoken English.

And good luck getting a studio to fund something like that. It would have to be very low budget and probably animated or something. Then it MIGHT could happen..

Kazenji
Yeah like it hasn't worked well before in other mediums.......ermm

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Kazenji
Yeah like it hasn't worked well before in other mediums.......ermm

Ok I'll bite....what other mediums are you talking about?

Kazenji
Games & Comics.

Robtard
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
And good luck getting a studio to fund something like that. It would have to be very low budget and probably animated or something. Then it MIGHT could happen..

When people go see an AVP film, they go for the draw of Predators and Aliens; preferably going at each other and explosions and shit happening. They don't go for the great human leads.

So I don't see why not.

Patient_Leech
Originally posted by Robtard
When people go see an AVP film, they go for the draw of Predators and Aliens; preferably going at each other and explosions and shit happening. They don't go for the great human leads.

So I don't see why not.

Hey, I agree. I think it could be a very interesting, experimental piece. But I don't think studios see it that way. Without a strong human element it's not going to have mass appeal.

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Without a strong human element it's not going to have mass appeal.

It's exactly the same reason why masked heroes have to always appear "unmasked" for x-amount of the movie, audiences NEED to relate to facial expressions.

Kazenji
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
It's exactly the same reason why masked heroes have to always appear "unmasked" for x-amount of the movie, audiences NEED to relate to facial expressions.

then explain V with V For Vendetta movie hardly saw his face and even then it was blacked by shadows.

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Kazenji
then explain V with V For Vendetta movie hardly saw his face and even then it was blacked by shadows.

Yes, admittedly V was an exception.

But then you have Stallone unable to keep his mask on for Dredd.
Same with Batman, Daredevil, Spidey & Capt America...

Tzeentch._
V for Vendetta wasn't an exception.

V himself was masked but Natalie Portman's character was essentially the "proxy" for his humanity. She represented the moral compass of V.

Anyone who seriously thinks that the "average joe" would be interested in a 2-hour movie where literally every character is a snarling animal is on one.

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Tzeentch._

Anyone who seriously thinks that the "average joe" would be interested in a 2-hour movie where literally every character is a snarling animal is on one.

Try watching 2 hours of porn. cool

Tzeentch._
Approximately 45 seconds is good enough for me. raver

Patient_Leech
I think wearing a mask as a superhero does trying to keep his true identity a secret is a bit different from only having humanoid monsters and NO humans in a film. To have a story there has to be some sort of human element. It would be pretty experimental to eliminate humans all together.

Robtard
Originally posted by Tzeentch._

Anyone who seriously thinks that the "average joe" would be interested in a 2-hour movie where literally every character is a snarling animal is on one.

Originally posted by Robtard
AVP film could be done and done well without a single human. They'd just need to give the Predator's more depth.

Edit: I should add that they've touched on this in just about every film with a Predator(s); that they're not just "snarling animals". Predator showed us that they have a code on honor, Predator 2 did the same with the elder Pred. AVP expanded a little more. Predators again with the captured Yautja. Character development could be done and if done well, would work. Even the Xenomorphs where shown to have intelligence in Alien: Resurrection.

Kazenji
Originally posted by Esau Cairn

Same with Batman, Daredevil, Spidey & Capt America...

But that's the norm for those type of Superheroes.

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Kazenji
But that's the norm for those type of Superheroes.

Except for Capt. America, the "norm" was keeping their identities a secret & yet they either always took their masks off for some lame reason OR it was the only part of their costume that got damaged/ ripped off.

Kazenji
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Except for Capt. America, the "norm" was keeping their identities a secret

Wasn't much of secret when S.H.I.E.L.D. knew all about him/

Esau Cairn
Originally posted by Kazenji
Wasn't much of secret when S.H.I.E.L.D. knew all about him/

That's why I started my post with, "Except for Capt America..."

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