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Spiderman is at 100% after each battle. Can Spiderman clear this gauntlet or does he die?

Mr. X
Daken
Bloodscream
Roughouse
Lady Deathstrike
Feral (I know she was his lover during the end but she fought him in the beginning)
Sabertooth
Omega Red (no Pheromones for this fight)
Gorgon (no stone stare)
Classic Cyber

Originally posted by carver9
Spiderman is at 100% after each battle. Can Spiderman clear this gauntlet or does he die?

Mr. X
Daken
Bloodscream
Roughouse
Lady Deathstrike
Feral (I know she was his lover during the end but she fought him in the beginning)
Sabertooth
Omega Red (no Pheromones for this fight)
Gorgon (no stone stare)
Classic Cyber

Only real trouble is Omega Red, because of the death spores.

Stops at Daken or Bloodscream.

Spidey's encounter with Daken was pure PIS. His spider sense was still working, yet he couldn't avoid his attacks? Slower characters have done better.

After all, Spidey IS on another level combat speed wise, compared to Daken/Wolverine/Deadpool..

Originally posted by cdtm
Spidey's encounter with Daken was pure PIS. His spider sense was still working, yet he couldn't avoid his attacks? Slower characters have done better.

After all, Spidey IS on another level combat speed wise, compared to Daken/Wolverine/Deadpool..

Firstly, virtually every top tier street has speed feats he rival Spider-man's catalog of feats. When compared to the top streets Peter is faster by a small, but largely inconsequential margin.

Secondly, Daken has his pheromones which are a huge boon in melee combat, and mess with the emotions and perception of his foes.

Stops at roughouse. Isn't he class 85 or something like that?

Stops at Daken IF he gets past Mister X, which is doubtful.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin

Secondly, Daken has his pheromones which are a huge boon in melee combat, and mess with the emotions and perception of his foes.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on Spidey's speed feats, considering how the Iron Fist vs Wolverine speed debate went.. None of the character I mentioned by way of example have feats that come close, imo.

And I'm aware of Daken's trick, but that didn't disable Spidey's precog. He said the precog was keeping him alive, and it tells severity and direction of attacks, even if his other senses don't.

Which is what makes this PIS. Other, slower and precog-less characters have managed to hold their own with Daken despite the pheromones. Wade avoided a kick when he stopped taking his eyes of him, for example.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Stops at roughouse. Isn't he class 85 or something like that?

On the off chance Spider-man gets passed Daken, how pry tell does he get past Bloodscream? Bloodscream can only be defeated by a deus ex machina plot device, and his shape shifting will prevent Spider-man from incapacitating him via webbing.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
On the off chance Spider-man gets passed Daken, how pry tell does he get past Bloodscream? Bloodscream can only be defeated by a deus ex machina plot device, and his shape shifting will prevent Spider-man from incapacitating him via webbing.
I don't know much about him. Is that the guy with blades instead of arms? What are his powers?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
On the off chance Spider-man gets passed Daken.

How's it an off chance, if Spidey won that fight?

While I believe that fight is PIS, Daken did take a lot of swipes at Pete.. Yet, he couldn't kill him.

That proves the pheromone trick alone simply isn't good enough to get in a killing stroke.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't know much about him. Is that the guy with blades instead of arms? What are his powers?

No, it's the vampire guy. His touch drains life force, he has a HF similar to Wolverine's, superhuman attributes, shapeshifting as mentioned before...

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't know much about him. Is that the guy with blades instead of arms? What are his powers?

He is a pseudo vampire, has super human attributes along with immortality and the ability to drain life force via touch, amping himself in the process... he also has a healing factor like virtually all Wolverine rogues. Along with all that Bloodscream has some mild shape shifting that makes him look like the Violator more or less. His whole stick is that he can't be harmed by a weapon forged by mortal hands.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Stops at Daken IF he gets past Mister X, which is doubtful. X gets raped **** his low level telepathy .

It will be the quicksilver fight again where even if he can predict spidermans movements he lacks the reaction speed to do anything about it.

Originally posted by cdtm
How's it an off chance, if Spidey won that fight?

While I believe that fight is PIS, Daken did take a lot of swipes at Pete.. Yet, he couldn't kill him.

That proves the pheromone trick alone simply isn't good enough to get in a killing stroke.

Spider-man was only saved from Daken via a handy plot device (as he usually is)... which won't be present in a forum match.

Originally posted by godking
X gets raped **** his low level telepathy .

It will be the quicksilver fight again where even if he can predict spidermans movements he lacks the reaction speed to do anything about it.



Ingoring the absurdity to comparing a character with low level super speed, to a character capable of greater that light speed, and moving so fast that one of the P5 couldn't even register his presence, Mr. X has blitzed Taskmaster, who is a legitimate bullet catcher. He is more than fast enough to contend with Spider-man, even sans his telepathy and nervous system lock.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He is a pseudo vampire, has super human attributes along with immortality and the ability to drain life force via touch, amping himself in the process... he also has a healing factor like virtually all Wolverine rogues. Along with all that Bloodscream has some mild shape shifting that makes him look like the Violator more or less. His whole stick is that he can't be harmed by a weapon forged by mortal hands.
Ah, now I remember. Logan killed him with sword of yashida clan because it was made by a demon, didn't he? Or was that someone else?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Spider-man was only saved from Daken via a handy plot device (as he usually is)... which won't be present in a forum match.

What plot device?

All he did, was start trash talking (And leave it all to spectacular spider senses), like he usually does.

Edit: Also, Bullseye hit him in both knees, so that further points to PIS.

No perception disability excuse that time, and Spidey's quick enough, with the precog, to avoid his shots.

Originally posted by godking
X gets raped **** his low level telepathy .

It will be the quicksilver fight again where even if he can predict spidermans movements he lacks the reaction speed to do anything about it.

He has a good enough reflexive speed to fight Wolverine, Paladin, Scourge, asgardians and other superhumans. Spiderman ain't Quicksilver, not even close.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Ah, now I remember. Logan killed him with sword of yashida clan because it was made by a demon, didn't he? Or was that someone else?

Well, he chopped his head off with that sword... but it didn't kill him. Or it did kill him but he is such a minor character no one bother to explain how he came back to life.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Well, he chopped his head off with that sword... but it didn't kill him. Or it did kill him but he is such a minor character no one bother to explain how he came back to life.

Very true. When did he came back? He wrecked logan in h2h IIRC.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Well, he chopped his head off with that sword... but it didn't kill him. Or it did kill him but he is such a minor character no one bother to explain how he came back to life.

Same with Wildchild

Originally posted by cdtm
What plot device?


A giant electrical ball of energy that is conveniently there for Daken to be swung into? Also, the fact that Daken was toying with Spider-man was the only thing that allowed that fight to get that far in the first place. Bloodlust, instead of trying to break him and bring Osborn a toy, Daken simply ends him.

Did they explain how victor came back to life? I'm way behind in my wolverine comics as I wasn't following it for some time.

Originally posted by abhilegend

Very true. When did he came back? He wrecked logan in h2h IIRC.

He was in the Avengers Initiative for a couple of issues with Roughouse, then in an Iron Man annual I think.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
A giant electrical ball of energy that is conveniently there for Daken to be swung into? Also, the fact that Daken was toying with Spider-man was the only thing that allowed that fight to get that far in the first place. Bloodlust, instead of trying to break him and bring Osborn a toy, Daken simply ends him.

O_o Throwing someone into an electrical box is a plot device?

He was beating him down fine before that.

Also, I have the issue in front of me, and Pete takes it in both knee's by "Hawkeye". Pretty much cements that Spidey was suffering from PIS, as his precog and speed make him more than capable of avoiding that.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Did they explain how victor came back to life? I'm way behind in my wolverine comics as I wasn't following it for some time.

It's being explained now in Loeb's arc.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Did they explain how victor came back to life? I'm way behind in my wolverine comics as I wasn't following it for some time.

It's not clear but it seems like he was never dead and Wolverine killed a clone. When Sabretooth started reemerging, Wolverine dug up the body and it was still there... but he said it smelled "off" even when he killed it... but then he was ambushed by Rumolus who took the corpse... and I'm not sure why he would want the body of a Sabretooth clone... when he literally has Sabretooth clone farm... plus Sabretooth's soul was in hell... so how does that make sense?

****ing Loeb. The sequel that no one asked for, to one of the worst arcs in comic history, that every other writer (other than the equally terrible Daniel Way) as subsequently ignored. Hurray?

On the plus side the issue that came out today is IMO won of the better Wolverine stories. Great characterization. I recommend everyone picking it up. I really liked it, and I'm usually overly critical of Wolverine stories, because they so really live up to the potential of the character.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He was in the Avengers Initiative for a couple of issues with Roughouse, then in an Iron Man annual I think.
Thanks buddy.Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
It's being explained now in Loeb's arc.
Any spoilers? Was aaron's run any good? WaTXM is just fantastic and logan is handled well in there.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It's not clear but it seems like he was never dead and Wolverine killed a clone. When Sabretooth started reemerging, Wolverine dug up the body and it was still there... but he said it smelled "off" even when he killed it... but then he was ambushed by Rumolus who took the corpse... and I'm not sure why he would want the body of a Sabretooth clone... when he literally has Sabretooth clone farm... plus Sabretooth's soul was in hell... so how does that make sense?

****ing Loeb. The sequel that no one asked for, to one of the worst arcs in comic history, that every other writer (other than the equally terrible Daniel Way) as subsequently ignored. Hurray?

On the plus side the issue that came out today is IMO won of the better Wolverine stories. Great characterization. I recommend everyone picking it up. I really liked it, and I'm usually overly critical of Wolverine stories, because they so really live up to the potential of the character.
Wait? Loeb as in Jeph "Rulk" Loeb? God bless wolverine.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Wait? Loeb as in Jeph "Rulk" Loeb? God bless wolverine.

*Nudges in* He did write the awesome Long Halloween years ago.

I prefer to think that Loeb died, and we got this imposter.

Originally posted by cdtm
O_o Throwing someone into an electrical box is a plot device?

He was beating him down fine before that.

Also, I have the issue in front of me, and Pete takes it in both knee's by "Hawkeye". Pretty much cements that Spidey was suffering from PIS, as his precog and speed make him more than capable of avoiding that.


Yes a convenient environmental object that allows a character to pull victory out of the jaws of defeat is a plot device. There is always some convenient water main or water tower that can be busted to defeat Sandman or Elektro, or some concrete truck around to take out Hydroman or some handy flammables / incendiaries around to take out Venom. Plot devices. In a forum match Spider-man doesn't have a weighted environment designed to give him a favorable outcome.

Bullseye hitting someone is never PIS. He is just that good.

Originally posted by cdtm
*Nudges in* He did write the awesome Long Halloween years ago.

I prefer to think that Loeb died, and we got this imposter.
I think that it was either his son or Tim Sale writing because I can't imagine a writer of Superman for all seasons would write Ultimatum. No ****ing way.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Thanks buddy.
Any spoilers? Was aaron's run any good? WaTXM is just fantastic and logan is handled well in there.

Aaron's Wolverine run was alright. I wish it would have been written by the Aaron who writes Scalpled, and not the Jason Aaron who likes to pretend he is Grant Morrison.

His Wolverine magnum opus was stretched out to long, with three or four issues that were essentially the exact same, just from the perspective of a different villain. It was an attempt to build some sense of sympathy for the plight of the Red Right Hand... but twice would have been enough, and in all likeliness once was good, we didn't need to read the same story about four different characters. By the time the run ended, I think everyone (I had at least) long guessed what the shocking twist ending was going to be, which took away from the story. It is probably a great read in trade where you can sit down and knock the whole thing in 15 minutes with out a month to think about the intricacies of the story, but in monthly format it was a disappointment.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I think that it was either his son or Tim Sale writing because I can't imagine a writer of Superman for all seasons would write Ultimatum. No ****ing way.

His son died and it changed his mentality. He just wants to right pop corn fluff that he thinks his fun.

Can't really blame the guy I guess, losing a child would be depressing as shit.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Aaron's Wolverine run was alright. I wish it would have been written by the Aaron who writes Scalpled, and not the Jason Aaron who likes to pretend he is Grant Morrison.

His Wolverine magnum opus was stretched out to long, with three or four issues that were essentially the exact same, just from the perspective of a different villain. It was an attempt to build some sense of sympathy for the plight of the Red Right Hand... but twice would have been enough, and in all likeliness once was good, we didn't need to read the same story about four different characters. By the time the run ended, I think everyone (I had at least) long guessed what the shocking twist ending was going to be, which took away from the story. It is probably a great read in trade where you can sit down and knock the whole thing in 15 minutes with out a month to think about the intricacies of the story, but in monthly format it was a disappointment.
So do you recommend it?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
His son died and it changed his mentality. He just wants to right pop corn fluff that he thinks his fun.

Can really blame the guy I guess, losing a child would be depressing as shit.
Yeah, I think it was the reason he went nuts too.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So do you recommend it?

Yeah. It's not going to blow your doors off the hinges and kick you in the nuts or anything, but it's the best Wolverine run since Warren Ellis' Not Dead Yet in the late 90s.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
A giant electrical ball of energy that is conveniently there for Daken to be swung into? Also, the fact that Daken was toying with Spider-man was the only thing that allowed that fight to get that far in the first place. Bloodlust, instead of trying to break him and bring Osborn a toy, Daken simply ends him. Please.. A giant electric engine that wasn't powerful enough to faze a weakened Spider-man. Let alone someone like Daken who has a Wolverine-level healing factor. Spider-man beat the livving crap outta Daken with his bare hands, it was made 100% clear, the generator barely (if at all) contributed to it.

And it works both ways. PIS/CIS is the only thing that prevented Spider-man from using spider sense offensively and beating the crap out of Daken from the very beginning of the fight. Spider-man conveniently forgot that he could fight blind for years. Acted as if it's a new power he just discovered, and THAT's when Daken got his hits in. Bad writing aside, Spider-man would've knocked Daken TFO the same way he did at the end of the fight, except he would've done it right away.

Probably stops at 3. But if we're talking how he does against th echaracters.
Mr. X - Spider-man beats him. Faster, stronger, more versatile.
Daken - goes the same way it went in that issue. Except faster.
Bloodscream - BS
Roughouse - Spider-man
Lady Deathstrike - She might tke it concidering Spider-man's CIS
Sabertooth - Same as above.
Omega Red (no Pheromones for this fight) - Red
Gorgon (no stone stare) - i'd rather not comment on Gorgon right now...

Originally posted by SamZED
Please.. A giant electric engine that wasn't powerful enough to faze a weakened Spider-man. Let alone someone like Daken who has a Wolverine-level healing factor. Spider-man beat the livving crap outta Daken with his bare hands, it was made 100% clear, the generator barely (if at all) contributed to it.

And it works both ways. PIS/CIS is the only thing that prevented Spider-man from using spider sense offensively and beating the crap out of Daken from the very beginning of the fight. Spider-man conveniently forgot that he could fight blind for years. Acted as if it's a new power he just discovered, and THAT's when Daken got his hits in. Bad writing aside, Spider-man would've knocked Daken TFO the same way he did at the end of the fight, except he would've done it right away.

Spider-man got near the harmless tesla coil arcs, Daken actually connected with the generator and completed a circuit. Two different things. Completely different.

It was PIS that his Spider-sense was still functioning reliably in the first place. Daken's pheromones alter brain chemistry, they don't just effect vision like this particular issue suggests. Daken's pheromones would have had negative effect on all of Spider-man's senses, including his Spider-sense, that they did on his vision. That shit was on par with Danny's drunken boxing trumping Mr. X's ability to map and lock onto neural pathways in absurdity.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Spider-man got near the harmless tesla coil arcs, Daken actually connected with the generator and completed a circuit. Two different things. Completely different.

It was PIS that his Spider-sense was still functioning reliably in the first place. Daken's pheromones alter brain chemistry, they don't just effect vision like this particular issue suggests. Daken's pheromones would have had negative effect on all of Spider-man's senses, including his Spider-sense, that they did on his vision. That shit was on par with Danny's drunken boxing trumping Mr. X's ability to map and lock onto neural pathways in absurdity. imo that's a stretch. Nothing indicates that Daken was hurt worse by the generator. If anything it seemed that Spider-man took more damage. He leaped directly into the energy outburst while Daken only hit the side of the generator. Either way that little attack made no difference. Replace it with an ordinary class 10 jab the end result would be the same. It was the final concrete shattering punch that knocked Daken out. It can be argued that the generated contributed (slightly) but nowhere near enough to say that Spider-man was saved by a plot device.

Well, if I really wanted to get into it I could say that Spider-man's spider sense is a magic based power so altering brain chemestry with pheromones might not cut it (don't recall anyone trying that tbh). But there's an easier way. Spider-man using his spider sense to guide his attacks (when blinded) is 100% in his character. Daken on the other hand uses his pheromones offensively in like 1/10 of his fights. Most of the time he doesn't use them at all and the few times he does he simply Fs up with his opponent's vision. So in that issue Daken was fighting in character while Spider-man wasn't. Not at first anyway. CIS is on in forum battles. So even if Daken's pheromones could mess up with spider sense (and there's a big chance they wont) he'll only use them to mess with Spider-man's vision and not ss. And that's me givving the character too much credit. It's more like him to just engage in a hand2claw combat witout relying on his pheromones at all.

Originally posted by SamZED

Well, if I really wanted to get into it I could say that Spider-man's spider sense is a magic based power so altering brain chemestry with pheromones might not cut it (don't recall anyone trying that tbh). But there's an easier way. Spider-man using his spider sense to guide his attacks (when blinded) is 100% in his character. Daken on the other hand uses his pheromones offensively in like 1/10 of his fights. Most of the time he doesn't use them at all and the few times he does he simply Fs up with his opponent's vision. So in that issue Daken was fighting in character while Spider-man wasn't. Not at first anyway. CIS is on in forum battles. So even if Daken's pheromones could mess up with spider sense (and there's a big chance they wont) he'll only use them to mess with Spider-man's vision and not ss. And that's me givving the character too much credit. It's more like him to just engage in a hand2claw combat witout relying on his pheromones at all.

I agree.

Without really understanding how the Spider Sense works, and with the only example being that it wasn't affected, we can't really assume the pheromones would alter it.

So, do you think an A game Spidey could simply deal with Daken before the pheromones even had a chance to affect him? Firelord like speed blitz?

he passes it all if spidey manages to get some info from wolvie.. and if hes using his new suit, ends of earth suit

I am assuming a setting of New York City, ample webbing, and at least SOME prior knowledge of these people on Spidey's part.



1) Mr. X --Spider-Man.

2) Daken -- Spider-Man.

3) Bloodscream -- ouch ...
Pete survives if he comes armed with reasonably good prior knowledge.


4) Roughouse -- This is Spider-Man versus The Rhino.

5) Lady Deathstrike -- Info would be helpful here. If Pete has a good idea of who this lady is, he takes it more often than not.

6) Feral -- Spider-Man.

7) Sabertooth -- Worth pointing out that Spider-Man actually beat Sabretooth back in the day. Hopefully this doesn't come down to a hand-to-hand in confined spaces ...

8) Omega Red (no Pheromones for this fight) -- Without the death spores, isn't this simply Spider-Man versus Doctor Octopus?

9) Gorgon (no stone stare) A harder version of Mr. X, who is apparently a harder version of Taskmaster. Prior knowledge of Gorgon is an absolute must for an actual win for Spidey from what I read of this guy.

10) Classic Cyber -- Spider-Man.

facepalm

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

8) Omega Red (no Pheromones for this fight) -- Without the death spores, isn't this simply Spider-Man versus Doctor Octopus?

That's what I thought, too.

A Doc Oct with body armor, but slower arms. (Considering Oct regularly beats Spidey's agility, and also easily caught Daredevil, while Omega's arms can be avoided by high end streets.)



Gorgon's kind of tough to place. He's clearly above Wolverine, going by Enemy of The State, and even easily handled a Logan and Elektra double team, but in his fight with Danny, it looked like they were both holding back...

Not too much evidence that he's really in Pete's ball park, speed and agility wise.

Stops at Bloodscream.

Originally posted by cdtm
That's what I thought, too.

A Doc Oct with body armor, but slower arms. (Considering Oct regularly beats Spidey's agility, and also easily caught Daredevil, while Omega's arms can be avoided by high end streets.)

Red has Thing-level strength, superhuman attributes, great fighting skills and experience, a healing factor, life drain... so no, he's not like Doc Ock. He's much more than that.

OR caught Daredevil just fine...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Omega Red caught Daredevil just fine...

Daredevil's evasion ability doesn't belong in the same sentence as Spider-Man's.


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Red has Thing-level strength ...


Ock's tentacles possess Thing-level strength


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Red has ... superhuman attributes

List the relevant ones, please.


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Red has ... great fighting skills and experience

Fighting who and what exactly?

What method did he use to defeat his opponents?


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Red has ... a healing factor


This means that he will recover faster than Doc Ock after getting knocked out. Good to know.


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Red has ... life drain


The life drain is granted to Omega Red via the Pheremones the Original Poster ELIMINATED from this scenario.
So he doesn't have that to use here.


Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Red has ... superhuman attributes, ... so no, he's not like Doc Ock. He's much more than that.



Accounting for the abilities ELIMINATED by the exclusion of the pheremones that the OP specified in the very first post,
the only significant difference you've HINTED at is that Omega Red is more durable than Doctor Octopus.

Hmm. How vulnerable or invulnerable is Omega Red to electricity?
Those metal arms of his are a two way street...

I'm not really seeing how Bloodscream is too much for Spidey. I think Spidey takes it all the way to Omega Red. Even without the death spores, Red is a lot to bite off. Now, CAN Spidey win against him this way? Sure. But it would take a lot of resourcefulness and prior knowledge to give him the edge in the fight. Not saying it can't happen, but it's unlikely, given the damage output and damage soak Omega Red can dish and take.