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SBP sundips for 1 hour prior to fight.

The P5 get ANNIHILATED.

Phoenix 5 stomp.

This could go either way but if I had to bet my life savings, I'd go with SBP.

5

From what I understand, Superboy Prime, being modelled on PRE-Crisis on Infinite Earth Kryptonians, gains no actual advantage from journeying to, or even immersing himself in, our sun. Rather there's a more or less set maximum that he is automatically "set" to once yellow sunlight reaches a certain threshhold. Exposure to the sun itself was actually regarded as a trial that Kryptonians were able to easily ENDURE thanks to their metahuman invulnerability, not something that actually BOOSTED them beyond their "normal" superpowered selves ...

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
From what I understand, Superboy Prime, being modelled on PRE-Crisis on Infinite Earth Kryptonians, gains no actual advantage from journeying to, or even immersing himself in, our sun. Rather there's a more or less set maximum that he is automatically "set" to once yellow sunlight reaches a certain threshhold. Exposure to the sun itself was actually regarded as a trial that Kryptonians were able to easily ENDURE thanks to their metahuman invulnerability, not something that actually BOOSTED them beyond their "normal" superpowered selves ...

Not true. Prime is not a PC Kryptonian (for example he's 100% immune to magic and they aren't), and he's far more dependent on yellow sun than they were. He gets more powerful with just his finger touching a beam of sunlight.

Depends on how fast he can take them out one at a time.But each one would get more powerful after one drops out.How will he fare once he reaches the last one? He has to take them all out at once.

They've definitely proven they aren't able to react to speedsters that well, and Prime's faster than anything they've ever seen.

Prime sonned an entire group of superheroes simply by having a singular beam of light touching him.

Him sundipped for an entire hour? Cancel Christmas. Phoenix 5 dies.

Prime puts out their flame.

Originally posted by mastagambit
Depends on how fast he can take them out one at a time.But each one would get more powerful after one drops out.How will he fare once he reaches the last one? He has to take them all out at once.


In which case it would be Prime vs the PF itself. Then the PF consumes Prime + the sun.

I like Prime but he loses this.

SBP takes this, he is too powerful for them, thor gave emma a good fight, rulk and thing were owning namor for a while, gladiator was overpowering colossus, the phoenix 5 are nothing for prime he will tear off limbs, shove heads up asses, the phoenix 5 will die in a brutal way.

P5 get stronger as each goes down tho. Also, how is he beating emma if she cud just reassemble herself?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
P5 get stronger as each goes down tho. Also, how is he beating emma if she cud just reassemble herself?
Melt her.

She showed matter manipulation enough to reassemble herself from particles, I don't think liquifying would be much of a problem at all.

Also, Phoenix. Eats stars. Fire. Y'know. :-p

Originally posted by Nibedicus
P5 get stronger as each goes down tho. Also, how is he beating emma if she cud just reassemble herself?

breaking her to pieces can be considered a ko, also even after she reform and Prime realise that he can simply bfr her into another dimension or what ever, i am sure his heat vision is powerful enough to not only melt her but completely destroy her to the molecular levels to the point nothing is left to reform from.

Prime with 1 hour sundip is overkill....IIRC Superman sundipped for a much shorter time and he became pretty damn strong after it...

to be completely fair i am not sure if Prime's sun amp works same way as superman as far as the duration time, i know a single ray of sun empowers him completely, however as far as the longer he stays the stronger he gets thing was never proved, anyway he doesnt need to be stronger than normally to own them, as i said before thor gave emma a good fight, rulk and thing were owning namor for a while, gladiator overpowered colossus, it is very clear that Prime on averege will dominate and stomp this entire team they are nothing special to him.

She showed pretty much she could reform at will. Don't think smashing her would count as a KO. Also, phoenix/fire/star? Y'know? Don't think heat vision would really be the winning edge here. As for BFR, I don't really remember reading BFR as one of SBP's go-too tactic or ability...

Originally posted by Nibedicus
She showed pretty much she could reform at will. Don't think smashing her would count as a KO. Also, phoenix/fire/star? Y'know? Don't think heat vision would really be the winning edge here. As for BFR, I don't really remember reading BFR as one of SBP's go-too tactic or ability...

she can reform at will but out of something, if he burns her to the point nothing is left then she wont have nothing to reform from.

you know superman? the guy that lives in the sun and uneffected by heat? look what happened to him when got his by superboy prime's heat vision,you cant aply force A to force B , heat vision is no fire, and there is another thing and its the overall power of the heat vision, the guy basically killed solomon grundy with his heat vision, he killed green lanterns with his heat vision, he cut superman like butter with his heat vision, i can safely say his heat vision is more powerful than anything they faced before.

superboy prime bfr'd antimonitor so he did use it as a tactic, no reason at all for prime not to use bfr as a tactic but of course he wont be needing that.

Reallyyyy doubt his heat vision would hurt them. Like I said, they're empowered by an abstract-level fire-based being who eats stars. Heat would really be the worst way to go here. Also, matter can niether be destroyed nor created, especially by use of heat. Really disagree here.

Always saw SBP as a cockey brawler type. If anything, BFR would be a tactic more common to the P5 than SBP.

I see him taking 2, maybe 3 of the P5 down (that is, if he doesn't get BFRd first). But once the Phoenix power is concentrated enough in one or 2 of them, he gets brought down hard.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Reallyyyy doubt his heat vision would hurt them. Like I said, they're empowered by an abstract-level fire-based being who eats stars. Heat would really be the worst way to go here. Also, matter can niether be destroyed nor created, especially by use of heat. Really disagree here.

Always saw SBP as a cockey brawler type. If anything, BFR would be a tactic more common to the P5 than SBP.

I see him taking 2, maybe 3 of the P5 down (that is, if he doesn't get BFRd first). But once the Phoenix power is concentrated enough in one or 2 of them, he gets brought down hard.

you got nothing but really bad speculation, again superman who can live in the sun and empowered by it was cut by his heat vision, i already explained his heat vision is no fire, just because the phoenix force has something to do with fire does not mean its imune to fire in the first place, i already gave feats of SBP heat vision, cutting superman, killing solomon grundy, killing green lanters with easy, i can safely say his heat vision will murder them unless you can provide any evidence to them being imune to his heat vision, also lets note that each of them got the 1/5 of the phoenix force which includes the so called durability.

but i already gave you a feat of sbp using a bfr do you even read what i respond? or am i talking to a wall here?

he cannot be bfr'd by them, he will take all 5 with no problem at all, namor got owned at first by thing and rulk which are a joke, colossus overpowered by gladiator, emma got a good fight from thor, they are all nothing to SBP and you are just being a brick wall that ignores context feats and make things up with no backing up

None of the characters you mentiined proves your "point". None of the characters here have the same durability as thr P5 has demonstrated. None of the characters here can reform or have matter manip. None of them are at the level of indvidual members of the P5.

Also, as one of them goes down, the Phoenix force gets distributef to the remaining members. Even if he defeats 4 out of 5 (highly unlikely) the last member would have the FULL Phoenix force at his/ her disposal. Sorry, as much as you'd try to accuse, lowball and pretend that you're the only one here providing an argument, SBP loses.

Namor got owned by Thing/Rulk? SBP got owned by A bunch o of kids? See I can lowball, too. At leat they needed a plot device to win, Conner and pals evidently didn't need one. Wheee! Seriously, tho, is lowballing really the only thing some ppl keep doing here to make their argument seem legit (to themselves)?

You obviously (I'm beginning to see that a lot of people here just want "their guy" to win in these forums and would just literally repeat the same argument over and over and, failing that, would go on ahead and accuse/insult as if it somehow proves their point), have a very biased view in the matter.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
None of the characters you mentiined proves your "point". None of the characters here have the same durability as thr P5 has demonstrated. None of the characters here can reform or have matter manip. None of them are at the level of indvidual members of the P5.

Also, as one of them goes down, the Phoenix force gets distributef to the remaining members. Even if he defeats 4 out of 5 (highly unlikely) the last member would have the FULL Phoenix force at his/ her disposal. Sorry, as much as you'd try to accuse, lowball and pretend that you're the only one here providing an argument, SBP loses.

Namor got owned by Thing/Rulk? SBP got owned by A bunch o of kids? See I can lowball, too. At leat they needed a plot device to win, Conner and pals evidently didn't need one. Wheee! Seriously, tho, is lowballing really the only thing some ppl keep doing here to make their argument seem legit (to themselves)?

You obviously (I'm beginning to see that a lot of people here just want "their guy" to win in these forums and would just literally repeat the same argument over and over and, failing that, would go on ahead and accuse/insult as if it somehow proves their point), have a very biased view in the matter.

what kind of durability did the phoenix 5 demonstrated? you really want to talk about the durability of the beings sbp hurt? lets get started, superman, sodam yat ION, busted the anti monitor armor, busted the phantom dimension, broke a wall made out of green lanters will power, tore off monarch armor while losing the guardian amp something many versions of superman failed to do combined, altered reality and altered events with his punches, i laugh at your attempt to even suggest their durability level should be somewhat of high for him ROFL get lost with that bullshit.

what durability feats did the phoenix 5 presented? colossus was hurt by a punch from gladiator, namor was hurt by rulk and thing, emma was shattered by thor, they are were taken out by couple sinister hoes, what durability feats? i can easily say SBP will murder them all just with his heat vision based on it being able to cut superman who is by far more durable than them, and as far as emma reforming? he will burn her to a mulecular level to the point there will be nothing left to reform from.

provide me any evidence that as one of them goes down the other members recieve the rest of the phoenix power i want an evidence to that, even if thats the case he will destroy them so fast it wont even matter, we already saw that the phoenix 5 while being more powerful had trouble vs speed basically the phoenix power did not amp their speed and therefor they will just get speedblitzed by prime, 1 by 1 he is going to murder them and even if the last member gets the whole phoenix force it wont matter because he will die less than a second right after that before he can even make any kind of move in the first place.

SBP going down to teen titans is PIS at its best, specially when he took them before combined with earth's heroes, he took the teen titans combined with the JLA and who not, he wrecked half of DC roster at the same time, his overall showings easily overshadow that 1 PIS feat, does namor have anything to suggest this was a PIS? no? then it is what it is the fact rulk and thing were owning him and giving him a run for his money,how am i lowballing namor if its his only feat along with his fight vs thor in the first place are you dence? thats just stupid.

it is you actually who got a biased opinion, SBP destroyed dimensions, groups of top notch heralds, busted anti monitor, killed powerful beings with just heat vision and was laughing his ass off while doing it, the guy is insanely powerful he is easily a mid trans level being, those phoenix 5 got a hard fight vs low level heralds, namor got a run for his money by rulk and thing, colossus got outpowered by gladiator, then they all got killed by sinister girls i am sorry but the phoenix 5 were pathetic compared to prime and this is based on feats.

you think you can judge me and my arguments? here let me try, i think based on the fact you joined recentry and your "knowledge" so far you are new to the comics world, you dont know much about comics at all and right now you are creaming your pants over the phoenix 5 without knowing anything about SBP feats, because only a guy who doesnt know about his feats would suggest such a stupid idea that those 5 can actually do anything to him.

Originally posted by red sabre
what kind of durability did the phoenix 5 demonstrated? you really want to talk about the durability of the beings sbp hurt? lets get started, superman, sodam yat ION, busted the anti monitor armor, busted the phantom dimension, broke a wall made out of green lanters will power, tore off monarch armor while losing the guardian amp something many versions of superman failed to do combined, altered reality and altered events with his punches, i laugh at your attempt to even suggest their durability level should be somewhat of high for him ROFL get lost with that bullshit.

what durability feats did the phoenix 5 presented? colossus was hurt by a punch from gladiator, namor was hurt by rulk and thing, emma was shattered by thor, they are were taken out by couple sinister hoes, what durability feats? i can easily say SBP will murder them all just with his heat vision based on it being able to cut superman who is by far more durable than them, and as far as emma reforming? he will burn her to a mulecular level to the point there will be nothing left to reform from.

provide me any evidence that as one of them goes down the other members recieve the rest of the phoenix power i want an evidence to that, even if thats the case he will destroy them so fast it wont even matter, we already saw that the phoenix 5 while being more powerful had trouble vs speed basically the phoenix power did not amp their speed and therefor they will just get speedblitzed by prime, 1 by 1 he is going to murder them and even if the last member gets the whole phoenix force it wont matter because he will die less than a second right after that before he can even make any kind of move in the first place.

SBP going down to teen titans is PIS at its best, specially when he took them before combined with earth's heroes, he took the teen titans combined with the JLA and who not, he wrecked half of DC roster at the same time, his overall showings easily overshadow that 1 PIS feat, does namor have anything to suggest this was a PIS? no? then it is what it is the fact rulk and thing were owning him and giving him a run for his money,how am i lowballing namor if its his only feat along with his fight vs thor in the first place are you dence? thats just stupid.

it is you actually who got a biased opinion, SBP destroyed dimensions, groups of top notch heralds, busted anti monitor, killed powerful beings with just heat vision and was laughing his ass off while doing it, the guy is insanely powerful he is easily a mid trans level being, those phoenix 5 got a hard fight vs low level heralds, namor got a run for his money by rulk and thing, colossus got outpowered by gladiator, then they all got killed by sinister girls i am sorry but the phoenix 5 were pathetic compared to prime and this is based on feats.

you think you can judge me and my arguments? here let me try, i think based on the fact you joined recentry and your "knowledge" so far you are new to the comics world, you dont know much about comics at all and right now you are creaming your pants over the phoenix 5 without knowing anything about SBP feats, because only a guy who doesnt know about his feats would suggest such a stupid idea that those 5 can actually do anything to him. Wow

Some seriously wrong points in that statement.

1) show best "feats" of my guy - check!
2) show worst showings of other guys -check!
3) make assumptions based on poor speculation (piercing supeman =/= utterly destroying someone, also, superman is NOT far more durable than any of them) -check!
4) lowball some more (lol at Thor and Glad being low heralds) -check!
5) huge wall of biased opinions that do nothing to prove his point -check!

Yeah I'm starting to get your debate style. It's entertaining.... Doesn't really prove your point, tho.

Also, the P5 getting distributed evenly as they go down? Go check AvX round 8, it's there. I might be new to comics but at least I've read about the people I argue on. You obiously don't.

Is it just me or does superman, hulk and gladiator have really rabid people trying to make em win regardless of logic here?

So how was the teen titans not pis? They were ending the series lol and there was no next season for a cliff hanger. They ended the series abruptly because of flashpoint. How else can you explain Conner clones getting stabbed by k-knives wielded by normal humans? Even if the last of the p5 remains, the p force will have to find a new host because the last one will be killed too.

I agree, the TT BS was pretty stupid. I was just demonstrating to red here how his high showing/lowballing strat looks from my end.

I actually feel SPB was badass in Sinestro War. But it's overhyping to even consider him being able to take down the P5 solo.

Originally posted by Diesldude
So how was the teen titans not pis? They were ending the series lol and there was no next season for a cliff hanger. They ended the series abruptly because of flashpoint. How else can you explain Conner clones getting stabbed by k-knives wielded by normal humans? Even if the last of the p5 remains, the p force will have to find a new host because the last one will be killed too. No one saying it's not PISy it's just ironic he points out a PIS situation while trying to use the same thing to lowball another character.

Red DOES have a point, though, and its a bigger one in general. The P5 will have much fewer showings than Prime, and so any low showings (being made to bleed by Thing, for example) would have a larger effect on the perceptions of readers.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Red DOES have a point, though, and its a bigger one in general. The P5 will have much fewer showings than Prime, and so any low showings (being made to bleed by Thing, for example) would have a larger effect on the perceptions of readers.

Their showings were all over the place, I agree. But the same issue wherehe bled from Class 100 hits, he also no sold a high herald hammer strike ambush to the back of the head. High and average showings should be taken into consideration, too.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Red DOES have a point, though, and its a bigger one in general. The P5 will have much fewer showings than Prime, and so any low showings (being made to bleed by Thing, for example) would have a larger effect on the perceptions of readers. Only if you look at it one sided. Or from a perspective that you want them to look weak.

For all the low showing nonsense the attacks did nothing. Namor essentially no sold them when he got remotely serious.

Then broke Rulk's arm in a similar manner to something SBP would have done. He no sold a Thor hammer strike.

Namor took on a team of avengers that included some decently powerful people.

Handled them like a nuisance and only lost because S. Witch is the P5s K-Nite.

While some moments in it could be considered a low showing the overall scenario definitely makes Namor look at the very least low trans in terms of power considering he manhandled a High Herald like Thor on multiple occasions.

I think the P5 collectively beat SBP. He should be able to take on one of them alone and win perfectly fine maybe even two, but I don't see him beating them all at the same time. Not with the feats they are bringing out.

Of course it's not over so maybe that opinion will change in the future who knows.

The Fab Five wins in a stomp.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) show best "feats" of my guy - check!
2) show worst showings of other guys -check!
3) make assumptions based on poor speculation (piercing supeman =/= utterly destroying someone, also, superman is NOT far more durable than any of them) -check!
4) lowball some more (lol at Thor and Glad being low heralds) -check!
5) huge wall of biased opinions that do nothing to prove his point -check!

Yeah I'm starting to get your debate style. It's entertaining.... Doesn't really prove your point, tho.

Also, the P5 getting distributed evenly as they go down? Go check AvX round 8, it's there. I might be new to comics but at least I've read about the people I argue on. You obiously don't.

Is it just me or does superman, hulk and gladiator have really rabid people trying to make em win regardless of logic here?

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/227/avx08019.th.jpg

I said earlier that it could go either way and that I was leaning toward SBP. I take it back, it's a stomp in SBP's favor.

Thing was knocking around Magik powered by the PF and then Iceman stepped in and put him down. Laughable!

SPB for the win.

Originally posted by zopzop
I said earlier that it could go either way and that I was leaning toward SBP. I take it back, it's a stomp in SBP's favor.

Thing was knocking around Magik powered by the PF and then Iceman stepped in and put him down. Laughable!

SPB for the win.
Two panels after the one in which he sent her flying with one punch , she reappears completely fine :
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/764/wolverineandxmen01408.th.jpghttp://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1255/wolverineandxmen01409.th.jpg

Your argument can be applied to Namor as well , considering how Rulk drew blood from him :
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6678/avxzone011.th.jpg

The Phoenix Five can still be effected by kinetics and physical force. Doesn't mean they are grievously harmed by it. People far less powerful than Prime have staggered him with physical blows, actually caused him pain, and have drawn blood.

That said, Prime's tolerance for pain and damage soak is far greater than his durability, imo.

Question for all the people who seem to believe the P5 can reform from any attack:

If Exitar blasted one of them into subatomic particles with his most powerful ever attack do you think they still reform?

Being smashed to pieces isn't the same as being atomized either. And being reduced to atoms isn't the same as being reduced to subatomic particles.

Prime has punched holes in reality itself. His punches do all sorts of crazy things. I have no problem believing they can reduce a low trans character to atoms or less. Plus his speed is a HUGE problem for them.

Has Prime ever atomized someone with a punch?

I know he's punched people's heads off and ripped off limbs, but I've not seen him do anything close to vaporizing someone with his punches, and he's had plenty of opportunity to do so against the characters he murdered.

WelL notice I said I have no problem "believing" he could...meaning I can't prove it. But given that his punches have accomplished far more impressive things it's not out of the realm of his capabilities. His punched his way out of the phantom zone. That's like saying since the Phoenix 5 haven't killed Thor with one blow that they can't.

Considering Thor has a storied and well documented history of enduring attacks greater than what the Phoenix Five had displayed against him, I do personally doubt that they could kill him in a single blow if he's at his best.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Question for all the people who seem to believe the P5 can reform from any attack:

If Exitar blasted one of them into subatomic particles with his most powerful ever attack do you think they still reform?

Being smashed to pieces isn't the same as being atomized either. And being reduced to atoms isn't the same as being reduced to subatomic particles.

Prime has punched holes in reality itself. His punches do all sorts of crazy things. I have no problem believing they can reduce a low trans character to atoms or less. Plus his speed is a HUGE problem for them.
Well , the Phoenix Force at full power is supposed to have telekinetic control at a (sub-)atomic scale .

However , considering how none of the P5 have the full power of the PF , I am unsure if they could reform from such an attack .

Come to think of it , I am beginning to wonder if Prime wouldn't be empowered in the presence of the Phoenix Force .

The Phoenix Force is , after all , the embodiment of all the stars in the universe , and that includes the ones like Earth's Sun .

It's a huge stretch to assume that he'd be amped or otherwise indirectly effected by the Phoenix Force incarnate due to its energy. That's without factoring in all the red stars, too.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's a huge stretch to assume that he'd be amped or otherwise indirectly effected by the Phoenix Force incarnate due to its energy. That's without factoring in all the red stars, too.
But the thing is do stars like Krypton's Red Sun even exist in the Marvel Universe ?
We do know from on-panel evidence that both 616-Earth AND 616-Hala have a Sun identical to DC Earth's Sun .
Is there any on-panel evidence for the existence of a Rao-type Red Sun in the Marvel Universe ?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
But the thing is do stars like Krypton's Red Sun even exist in the Marvel Universe ?
We do know from on-panel evidence that both Earth AND Hala have a Sun identical to DC Earth's Sun .
Is there any on-panel evidence for the existence of a Rao-type Red Sun in the Marvel Universe ?

Red stars exist in the real universe...so I'm not sure why they wouldn't exist in the Marvel Universe.

In any case, I find it extraordinarily implausible that Prime or any Kryptonian would be amped or depowered in any case simply by being close to the Phoenix Force.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Red stars exist in the real universe...so I'm not sure why they wouldn't exist in the Marvel Universe.

In any case, I find it extraordinarily implausible that Prime or any Kryptonian would be amped or depowered in any case simply by being close to the Phoenix Force.

Yeah I forgot that Rao is just another Red Giant .

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
WelL notice I said I have no problem "believing" he could...meaning I can't prove it. But given that his punches have accomplished far more impressive things it's not out of the realm of his capabilities. His punched his way out of the phantom zone. That's like saying since the Phoenix 5 haven't killed Thor with one blow that they can't.

That's only plausible if you give too much credit to SBP's punches and absolutely no credit to the Phoenix force's matter manipulative abilities IMO.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Come to think of it , I am beginning to wonder if Prime wouldn't be empowered in the presence of the Phoenix Force .

The Phoenix Force is , after all , the embodiment of all the stars in the universe , and that includes the ones like Earth's Sun .

If this was true (which it's not) it would likely be the other way around. The Force would suck up all solar energy leaving Prime depowered.

How can Prime contest with the embodiment of all the stars in an solar energy tug o war?

Originally posted by Sundipped
If this was true (which it's not) it would likely be the other way around. The Force would suck up all solar energy leaving Prime depowered.

How can Prime contest with the embodiment of all the stars in an solar energy tug o war?
Is this even true anymore?

Don't forget Sundipped, this isn't the Classic PF. Since 2004 or so it's been retconned down SEVERELY and I'm not just talking about the Xorn/Shi'ar incidents.

Gone are the days of it being a universal (at least) force, it's merely a "cosmic" force now.

Originally posted by zopzop
Is this even true anymore?

Don't forget Sundipped, this isn't the Classic PF. Since 2004 or so it's been retconned down SEVERELY and I'm not just talking about the Xorn/Shi'ar incidents.

Gone are the days of it being a universal (at least) force, it's merely a "cosmic" force now.

What evidence is there that it can't consume suns anymore?

Why can't SBP just beat PF out of them? If he kills them enough, it'll just give up and fly away. Why waste energy repetitiously reforming Muties that will be destroyed again anyway.

Hehe, 'X-men suck eggs'. Awesome battle cry.

This is spite. The 5 go down hard. Even without the sundip or his armor, SBP owns the team.

lol

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol
My reaction was exactly the same
It's baffling to me how one can claim SBP stomps the entire Phoenix 5 considering their feats and wide range of powers, individually let alone as a team. Also the fact the power of any defeated members is divided up among the remaining hosts amping them even further.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
My reaction was exactly the same
It's baffling to me how one can claim SBP stomps the entire Phoenix 5 considering their feats and wide range of powers, individually let alone as a team. Also the fact the power of any defeated members is divided up among the remaining hosts amping them even further.
The P5 aren't that impressive...............at all. SBP (leaving out the GA for a min here) has infinitely better fights and feats under his belt. Emma + PF couldn't even control Red Hulk's mind and was shaken when she attempted to read Thor's mind. They'd probably comatose themselves attempting to mindphuck SBP.

Based on what?

As far as I know, Prime doesn't have any telepathy resistance feats worth of note. Martian Manhunter was able to scan his mind and deduce his plan of universal destruction, iirc.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Based on what?

As far as I know, Prime doesn't have any telepathy resistance feats worth of note. Martian Manhunter was able to scan his mind and deduce his plan of universal destruction, iirc.
And? Emma by herself is supposed to be an elite (omega?) level telepath, yet even amped by 1/5 of the PF she couldn't handle what she saw in Thor's mind and she had zero control over Red Hulk. The P5 are failsauce.

She'd probably die attempting to do anything telepathically vs SBP.

Prolly can beat maybe 2, maybe even 3 at one time... But 5? nah...

Originally posted by zopzop
And? Emma by herself is supposed to be an elite (omega?) level telepath, yet even amped by 1/5 of the PF she couldn't handle what she saw in Thor's mind and she had zero control over Red Hulk. The P5 are failsauce.

She'd probably die attempting to do anything telepathically vs SBP.

Well, Thor has a history of resisting telepathic attacks and an extraordinary force of will. Him being a "god" also seems to be a reason why Emma and Rachel were defended against. Thor also resisted the psychic onslaught from a being composed of ten thousand gods, which attacked him on a physical and spiritual level. So, yeah, Thor actually has an impressive resume when it comes to willpower feats.

The Hulks in general seem to do decent enough against telepathy as well.

So, again, Emma not being able to mindphuck Thor/Rulk =/= not being able to mindphuck the less stable Prime, who doesn't even have any feats to suggest he'd resist an attack of such level outside of coasting on the fact that he's Superboy Prime. And Thor, while less powerful than Prime, absolutely shits on him in the willpower department.

Originally posted by zopzop
The P5 aren't that impressive...............at all. SBP (leaving out the GA for a min here) has infinitely better fights and feats under his belt. Emma + PF couldn't even control Red Hulk's mind and was shaken when she attempted to read Thor's mind. They'd probably comatose themselves attempting to mindphuck SBP.
Pretty sure all of the Phoenix 5 have telepathy aswell as a myriad of other powers. If Prime somehow takes down say 4 members, assuming the power transfer is still in effect, how is he going to essentially "stomp", let alone beat the Force itself?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, Thor has a history of resisting telepathic attacks and an extraordinary force of will. Him being a "god" also seems to be a reason why Emma and Rachel were defended against. Thor also resisted the psychic onslaught from a being composed of ten thousand gods, which attacked him on a physical and spiritual level. So, yeah, Thor actually has an impressive resume when it comes to willpower feats.

The Hulks in general seem to do decent enough against telepathy as well.

So, again, Emma not being able to mindphuck Thor/Rulk =/= not being able to mindphuck the less stable Prime, who doesn't even have any feats to suggest he'd resist an attack of such level outside of coasting on the fact that he's Superboy Prime. And Thor, while less powerful than Prime, absolutely shits on him in the willpower department.
Again, the P5 aren't impressive in the least. Hell, if anything, they seem to be forgetting their other powers, powers they had before they became PF Hosts and resorting to brawling. Thing punched out Magik. Thing..........

I can see it now, Emma tries something TP wise, then her head explodes or he punches it off.
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Pretty sure all of the Phoenix 5 have telepathy aswell as a myriad of other powers. If Prime somehow takes down say 4 members, assuming the power transfer is still in effect, how is he going to essentially "stomp", let alone beat the Force itself?
The PF was shattered into a BILLION pieces by.............Xorn. Freaking Xorn. It was then forced out of the White Hot Room by Shi'ar tech and almost killed again. Thor "clipped the wings" of the actual Force itself and sent it crashing into a planet. I don't understand why you think I'd be impressed by the PF.

Going strictly by on panel showings and not hyperbole or meaningless statements, SBP would WRECK the PF.

Originally posted by zopzop
Again, the P5 aren't impressive in the least. Hell, if anything, they seem to be forgetting their other powers, powers they had before they became PF Hosts and resorting to brawling. Thing punched out Magik. Thing..........

I can see it now, Emma tries something TP wise, then her head explodes or he punches it off.

Thing punching Magik =/= Thing hurting Magik. Do you know how many times in comics someone is able to punch or otherwise send another being flying with an attack only to have not hurt them in the least at all? Prime himself has been staggered by beings far far FAR below his power level, but we don't think those beings can actually beat him outside of causing him pain and discomfort. And as far as I can tell, Magik was basically fine afterword.

Based on what though? She goes for TP and Prime is unaffected because he's Prime? Or are you basing this off of a feat he displayed?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thing punching Magik =/= Thing hurting Magik. Do you know how many times in comics someone is able to punch or otherwise send another being flying with an attack only to have not hurt them in the least at all? Prime himself has been staggered by beings far far FAR below his power level, but we don't think those beings can actually beat him outside of causing him pain and discomfort.
The Magik incident is not the only example, it's just the most recent. What I found particularly hilarious was the concern in P5 Emma's little speech when she was discussing what they should do with the Red Hulk.

You know if Rulk assaulted SBP, there'd be nothing left of Rulk but a black and red smear on the floor right?


Because he's Prime. Has he EVER been affected by telepathic assault on panel before?

Originally posted by zopzop

The Magik incident is not the only example, it's just the most recent. What I found particularly hilarious was the concern in P5 Emma's little speech when she was discussing what they should do with the Red Hulk.

You know if Rulk assaulted SBP, there'd be nothing left of Rulk but a black and red smear on the floor right?


Because he's Prime. Has he EVER been affected by telepathic assault on panel before?

She was referencing Loebforce shenigans which include Rulk punching out Uatu and beating Surfer with his own board. Loebforce Rulk was goddamn ridiculous. I don't think Rulk would beat Prime for the majority, but if his plot driven absorbing powers came into play, Prime would be in trouble.



So because Prime has never been shown to be attacked by telepathy, he gets the benefit of the doubt that he'd be immune to it or able to shrug it off? All because "he's Prime"?

Do you honestly not see the inherent and glaring flaw in that?

Originally posted by zopzop
The PF was shattered into a BILLION pieces by.............Xorn. Freaking Xorn. It was then forced out of the White Hot Room by Shi'ar tech and almost killed again. Thor "clipped the wings" of the actual Force itself and sent it crashing into a planet. I don't understand why you think I'd be impressed by the PF.

Going strictly by on panel showings and not hyperbole or meaningless statements, SBP would WRECK the PF.
That's ignoring a lot of context though, and Thor has a hammer that can absorb the Phoenix Force, what's Prime going to do punch it to death? Considering what Namor did when he got pissed and how far beyond the heralds he seemed, along with 4 other members who are diverse and equally as effective in their own right, I don't see how it's a stomp.

Yes it sems Zop is a Phoenix hater.

LOL at the Phoenix crashing into a planet. That was the hammer. You can see the trail comming from Thor. Christ.

Originally posted by Sundipped
If this was true (which it's not) it would likely be the other way around. The Force would suck up all solar energy leaving Prime depowered.

How can Prime contest with the embodiment of all the stars in an solar energy tug o war?

What isn't true ? Phoenix being the embodiment of all stars ? I assure you that it is very much true . It is in the Phoenix Respect Thread(the one made by Id) .
Here's a small bit of proof :
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4300/excalibur02520hz1.jpg

If you're talking about Prime getting powered up by the PF , then you should know its mere speculation on my part , one which I already conceded was implausible , because of all the Red Giants that exist in the universe .

Originally posted by zopzop
And? Emma by herself is supposed to be an elite (omega?) level telepath, yet even amped by 1/5 of the PF she couldn't handle what she saw in Thor's mind and she had zero control over Red Hulk.
She's a proven Omega-Class telepath , like Charles . However , just to be clear , that doesn't mean that she is an Omega-Level mutant like Iceman or Hope .

Originally posted by zopzop
The P5 are failsauce.

That's debatable . However its pretty clear that this entire event , definitely is "failsauce" .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
What isn't true ? Phoenix being the embodiment of all stars ? I assure you that it is very much true . It is in the Phoenix Respect Thread(the one made by Id) .
Here's a small bit of proof :
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4300/excalibur02520hz1.jpg

If you're talking about Prime getting powered up by the PF , then you should know its mere speculation on my part , one which I already conceded was implausible , because of all the Red Giants that exist in the universe .

Sometimes you over analyze things GK. I was talking about Prime being powered by the PF. My question about Prime playing tug o war with "the embodiment of the stars" should've been seen as my acknowledgement to what the entity is. No biggie.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Sometimes you over analyze things GK. I was talking about Prime being powered by the PF. My question about Prime playing tug o war with "the embodiment of the stars" should've been seen as my acknowledgement to what the entity is. No biggie.
If it was about Prime , then I've already explained my present stance on the matter .

Saturn Queen was easily able to use her tp on Prime

Originally posted by iceman24567
Saturn Queen was easily able to use her tp on Prime

Did she read his mind or try to mindrape him?

I know Martian Manhunter was able to read his mind.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Did she read his mind or try to mindrape him?

I know Martian Manhunter was able to read his mind. She used it to communicate with him

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) show best "feats" of my guy - check!
2) show worst showings of other guys -check!
3) make assumptions based on poor speculation (piercing supeman =/= utterly destroying someone, also, superman is NOT far more durable than any of them) -check!
4) lowball some more (lol at Thor and Glad being low heralds) -check!
5) huge wall of biased opinions that do nothing to prove his point -check!

Yeah I'm starting to get your debate style. It's entertaining.... Doesn't really prove your point, tho.

Also, the P5 getting distributed evenly as they go down? Go check AvX round 8, it's there. I might be new to comics but at least I've read about the people I argue on. You obiously don't.

Is it just me or does superman, hulk and gladiator have really rabid people trying to make em win regardless of logic here?

those are not only his best feats but his consistant feats without anything to contredict them therefor those ARE his debatable feats.

how are those the worst showings of namor if those are his only ones? how can that fight be A PIS as you claim if there are no other feats to suggest he is greater than that? think about what you said.

can you provide any evidence to them being more durable than superman? on the superman side we got feats of him survivng planetery blasts and supernovas, black holes, and a half galactical blast, what feats do you have for those 5? for all that i care colossus got bested by a punch from gladiator, namor got taken down for a while by rulk and thing, cyclops was matched by gladiator , emma got shattered by thor, and they all combined are nothing to the likes of wanda and the sinister girls, there is no evidence of them survivng a single heat vision from SBP who killed green lanterns and cut superman like butter with only his heat vision, of yeah and killed solomon grundy with it as well, i am not even starting to bring up his overall power output feats of destroying realities time and antimonitor armor without being harmed.

never said thor is a low herald show me where is said that, i just presented the facts of phoenix 5 getting trouble from low heralds AND from thor.

biased? i base my statement over showings and facts, you on the other hand is the one who is basing his opinions on nothing but wank and speculations for the phoenix 5 based on nothing, prime shit stomped half of DC universe comming at him at once that included people like wonder woman martial manhunter the flash superman and who not, your phoenix 5 got trouble with averege 1 vs 1 herald fight, as we saw the phoenix 5 had trouble with speed because the phoenix boost didnt add them any speed advantage prime will easily destroy the life out of them before they do anything.

when will you start actually proving something? all you do is say i am biased and i am wrong, the good old tactic of "when you cant debate the guy just troll him and make fun of his argument that will make it look like you actually made a point", start proving something aside of just trolling.

i guess you dont, you refuce to accept the facts as they are and ignore the showings, you dont know much about prime at all and the avidence to that is the fact you brought him taken down by the teen titans which is a definition of PIS, after he got 98% of his showings showing him beating and killing the living crap out of top DC guys and being unbeated monster, survivng universal blasts, breaking the wall backed by the green lanters will power, breaking and altering reality and time, busting anti monitor armor without getting harmed, beating half of DC roster at the same time, but i guess all that doesnt tell you anything because like you said yourself you are new to comics, you are "debating" based on couple comic books you read up recently without knowing the other character and that is what biased is all about.

try to stick around a little longer to have any credibility to speak about whats biased or unbiased around here, there are fanboys and devoted fans to many characters, if that was some kind of shot at me than SBP is not superman get your facts straight, i suggest you to actually read some comics from 10 - 20 years ago and not just the recent ones, dont think you can just walk away with "i dont care" attitude when ever you are questioned about old school comics knowledge.

sorry it took me some time to get back to you i was on a spanish vacation however i always get back

Saturn queen killed martian manhunter by shutting down his mind twice EASILY. She's beyond that weaksauce phoenix emma.

Here is Xemnu mindraping rulk easily
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/panther/xemnu2.jpg
Phoenix emma=weaksauce.

phoenix 5 are wanked way too much, the team combined taking their best shots at gladiator and still couldnt even kill him.

Fab Five stomps.

Prime shoves their heads up eachother's asses Hancock style

Originally posted by abhilegend
Here is Xemnu mindraping rulk easily
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v155/thorion/panther/xemnu2.jpg
Phoenix emma=weaksauce.
OWNED!
Xemnu > PF enhanced Emma (at least TP wise)!

Sigh. Another long response rife with biased or downright wrong interpretations as well as misinformation.... Lemme see if I can address each one.

Originally posted by red sabre


1) those are not only his best feats but his consistant feats without anything to contredict them therefor those ARE his debatable feats.

2) how are those the worst showings of namor if those are his only ones? how can that fight be A PIS as you claim if there are no other feats to suggest he is greater than that? think about what you said.

3) can you provide any evidence to them being more durable than superman? on the superman side we got feats of him survivng planetery blasts and supernovas, black holes, and a half galactical blast, what feats do you have for those 5? for all that i care colossus got bested by a punch from gladiator, namor got taken down for a while by rulk and thing, cyclops was matched by gladiator , emma got shattered by thor, and they all combined are nothing to the likes of wanda and the sinister girls, there is no evidence of them survivng a single heat vision from SBP who killed green lanterns and cut superman like butter with only his heat vision, of yeah and killed solomon grundy with it as well, i am not even starting to bring up his overall power output feats of destroying realities time and antimonitor armor without being harmed.

4) never said thor is a low herald show me where is said that, i just presented the facts of phoenix 5 getting trouble from low heralds AND from thor.

5) biased? i base my statement over showings and facts, you on the other hand is the one who is basing his opinions on nothing but wank and speculations for the phoenix 5 based on nothing, prime shit stomped half of DC universe comming at him at once that included people like wonder woman martial manhunter the flash superman and who not, your phoenix 5 got trouble with averege 1 vs 1 herald fight, as we saw the phoenix 5 had trouble with speed because the phoenix boost didnt add them any speed advantage prime will easily destroy the life out of them before they do anything.

6) when will you start actually proving something? all you do is say i am biased and i am wrong, the good old tactic of "when you cant debate the guy just troll him and make fun of his argument that will make it look like you actually made a point", start proving something aside of just trolling.

7) i guess you dont, you refuce to accept the facts as they are and ignore the showings, you dont know much about prime at all and the avidence to that is

8) the fact you brought him taken down by the teen titans which is a definition of PIS, after he got 98% of his showings showing him beating and killing the living crap out of top DC guys and being unbeated monster, survivng universal blasts, breaking the wall backed by the green lanters will power, breaking and altering reality and time, busting anti monitor armor without getting harmed, beating half of DC roster at the same time, but i guess all that doesnt tell you anything because like you said yourself you are new to comics, you are "debating" based on couple comic books you read up recently without knowing the other character and that is what biased is all about.

9) try to stick around a little longer to have any credibility to speak about whats biased or unbiased around here, there are fanboys and devoted fans to many characters, if that was some kind of shot at me than SBP is not superman get your facts straight, i suggest you to actually read some comics from 10 - 20 years ago and not just the recent ones, dont think you can just walk away with "i dont care" attitude when ever you are questioned about old school comics knowledge.

1) By "show "my guy's best feats" I meant when you posted this:

you really want to talk about the durability of the beings sbp hurt? lets get started, superman, sodam yat ION, busted the anti monitor armor, busted the phantom dimension, broke a wall made out of green lanters will power, tore off monarch armor while losing the guardian amp something many versions of superman failed to do combined, altered reality and altered events with his punches, i laugh at your attempt to even suggest their durability level should be somewhat of high for him ROFL get lost with that bullshit.

2) By "show "the other guy's" worst feats" I meant when you posted this:

olossus was hurt by a punch from gladiator, namor was hurt by rulk and thing, emma was shattered by thor, they are were taken out by couple sinister hoes,

3) Okay, proof of higher durability.... No-selling a behind the neck cheapshot by probably the strongest-hitting High Herald out there (Thor) gonna be enough?

Also, you need to provide evidence that SBP's heat vision can utterly destroy someone (w/o the use of overloading) that's of HH+ level as you're the one who made the assumption. Don't pass the burden of proof on me as you're the one who made assumptions.

To recap: I simply said as Emma can reform from being shattered easily, what exactly is SBP gonna do to put her down permanently? You claimed HV could destroy her utterly, then I said show instances of utterly destroying someone of HH+ durability...

So yeah, burden of proof = yours, buddy.

Nice super long TLDR tirade on things that has nothing to do with what I said, tho. Makes you look all credible and stuff (not).

4) "those phoenix 5 got a hard fight vs low level heralds, namor got a run for his money by rulk and thing, colossus got outpowered by gladiator," - so where exactly did you say Thor here?

5) Sigh. More accusations blah blah. More TLDR meaningless babble that addresses nothing that I said/mentioned. I know SBP has good feats. I think you and I agree that he's pretty badass, I like his powerset, it's how Superman should be written IMO, just hate his (SBP's) personality. Doesn't address my point, tho (how he needs to utterly destroy something of HH+ to be able to put Emma down permanently). Which is all we're debating about (pls read back a few pages).

Here you go if you've forgotten:

"She showed pretty much she could reform at will. Don't think smashing her would count as a KO. Also, phoenix/fire/star? Y'know? Don't think heat vision would really be the winning edge here. As for BFR, I don't really remember reading BFR as one of SBP's go-too tactic or ability...."

That's it. Nothing else.

Why are you debating speed when I never mentioned that? And I would agree if SBP goes for the kill with a blitz, he'll def put on the hurting. That has nothing to do with my point tho (see above). Adding new stuff to a debate is poor form, but it looks like you seem to enjoy going on meaningless tangents.

6) Because you ARE biased. Never said the word WRONG, tho. Just that you seem very determined to use whatever cheap tactic you can come up with just to try and chalk up a win for "your guy".

Also, you made the specific claims here. I simply said, "prove it". Why are you suddenly passing burden of proof to me? Ok, tell you what, lemme know w/c EXACT claims you want me to provide proof for instead of accusing me of "not providing proof" so we can get that whole thing sorted out? Ok? Good!

7) No, that's you.

8) Really? That's how you interpret a SARCASTIC comment like:

"Namor got owned by Thing/Rulk? SBP got owned by A bunch o of kids? See I can lowball, too. At leat they needed a plot device to win, Conner and pals evidently didn't need one. Wheee! Seriously, tho, is lowballing really the only thing some ppl keep doing here to make their argument seem legit (to themselves)?"

Really? I'm beginning to see why you seem so off point in debating sometimes....

9) Ad Hominem is a poor way of debating, btw.

PS. Damn, what a waste of time this is.... -_-

Prime.

SBP ftw
Phoenix 5 does not impress me at all

I wouldn't mind seeing Prime stomp Namor.

Prime is overrated.

He's got his highs and lows like any other character. And he's a B*tch. But his feats are something special.

Originally posted by Damborgson
He's got his highs and lows like any other character. And he's a B*tch. But his feats are something special.

He does have nice fts but there are characters that have similar fts and doesn't get near the praise Prime gets.

Who?

Originally posted by Damborgson
Who?
Hulk off course.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Who?

Punching through the same wall Prime punched through...Kal-l did that as well.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/Untitled-Scanned-34.jpg

Taking on teams...Black Adam, Despero, Doomsday, and many others. Besides team battles, I wasn't impressed at all with Prime one on one fights.

Originally posted by carver9
Prime is overrated.

For good reason..

Originally posted by red sabre
phoenix 5 are wanked way too much, the team combined taking their best shots at gladiator and still couldnt even kill him.

durink

Originally posted by red sabre
phoenix 5 are wanked way too much, the team combined taking their best shots at gladiator and still couldnt even kill him. With this logic, Superman Prime is wanked way too much since he was taking his best shots at Ion Sodam Yat and couldn't kill him. The guy who, even on a team of Green Lanterns, was getting beaten by Mongul Jr w/ rings.

With that logic, anyway. kinda

Sodam yat had his ION powers supressed when he fought mongul with several yellow rings. It was just a daxamite gl vs mongul with rings. As always ODG provides the truth.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Sigh. Another long response rife with biased or downright wrong interpretations as well as misinformation.... Lemme see if I can address each one.



1) By "show "my guy's best feats" I meant when you posted this:

you really want to talk about the durability of the beings sbp hurt? lets get started, superman, sodam yat ION, busted the anti monitor armor, busted the phantom dimension, broke a wall made out of green lanters will power, tore off monarch armor while losing the guardian amp something many versions of superman failed to do combined, altered reality and altered events with his punches, i laugh at your attempt to even suggest their durability level should be somewhat of high for him ROFL get lost with that bullshit.

2) By "show "the other guy's" worst feats" I meant when you posted this:

olossus was hurt by a punch from gladiator, namor was hurt by rulk and thing, emma was shattered by thor, they are were taken out by couple sinister hoes,

3) Okay, proof of higher durability.... No-selling a behind the neck cheapshot by probably the strongest-hitting High Herald out there (Thor) gonna be enough?

Also, you need to provide evidence that SBP's heat vision can utterly destroy someone (w/o the use of overloading) that's of HH+ level as you're the one who made the assumption. Don't pass the burden of proof on me as you're the one who made assumptions.

To recap: I simply said as Emma can reform from being shattered easily, what exactly is SBP gonna do to put her down permanently? You claimed HV could destroy her utterly, then I said show instances of utterly destroying someone of HH+ durability...

So yeah, burden of proof = yours, buddy.

Nice super long TLDR tirade on things that has nothing to do with what I said, tho. Makes you look all credible and stuff (not).

4) "those phoenix 5 got a hard fight vs low level heralds, namor got a run for his money by rulk and thing, colossus got outpowered by gladiator," - so where exactly did you say Thor here?

5) Sigh. More accusations blah blah. More TLDR meaningless babble that addresses nothing that I said/mentioned. I know SBP has good feats. I think you and I agree that he's pretty badass, I like his powerset, it's how Superman should be written IMO, just hate his (SBP's) personality. Doesn't address my point, tho (how he needs to utterly destroy something of HH+ to be able to put Emma down permanently). Which is all we're debating about (pls read back a few pages).

Here you go if you've forgotten:

"She showed pretty much she could reform at will. Don't think smashing her would count as a KO. Also, phoenix/fire/star? Y'know? Don't think heat vision would really be the winning edge here. As for BFR, I don't really remember reading BFR as one of SBP's go-too tactic or ability...."

That's it. Nothing else.

Why are you debating speed when I never mentioned that? And I would agree if SBP goes for the kill with a blitz, he'll def put on the hurting. That has nothing to do with my point tho (see above). Adding new stuff to a debate is poor form, but it looks like you seem to enjoy going on meaningless tangents.

6) Because you ARE biased. Never said the word WRONG, tho. Just that you seem very determined to use whatever cheap tactic you can come up with just to try and chalk up a win for "your guy".

Also, you made the specific claims here. I simply said, "prove it". Why are you suddenly passing burden of proof to me? Ok, tell you what, lemme know w/c EXACT claims you want me to provide proof for instead of accusing me of "not providing proof" so we can get that whole thing sorted out? Ok? Good!


Really? I'm beginning to see why you seem so off point in debating sometimes....

9) Ad Hominem is a poor way of debating, btw.

PS. Damn, what a waste of time this is.... -_-

you are probably talking about yourself since i am the one bringing feats and facts while all you do is bring things you pull out of your ass.

those are his overall and majority of feats, if the majority of the time he is portrayed that way and the things i stated are not nit picked feats but his overall then i dont see how brining his standard feats can be considered "showing only his high feats".

how are those the worst showings of the phoenix 5 when this is probably among the only fights they had in the first place? colossusnaut getting overfought by a punch from gladiator cannot be a low showing for him because he doesnt have other showings to suggest otherwise in the first place, he got a showing of punching thor woohooo omg lets all cream on that, if a character has 1 or 2 showings and in one of the showings he is taken out by someone how the hell can that feat be considered a low feat is thats his only feat? are you on pills?

i knew you will bring namor taking that shot to the back of the head, first of all at this point thor is portrayed at very low levels compared to his normal self, his durability took such a downfall that foes just one shot him, its not that hard to figure out he is overall writen as weaker than his normal self and therefor taking a shot from current thor is not a big deal, second of all if namor has 2 feats one of them is getting hard pressed vs rulk and thing and the other is taking a thor show then who said the low showing is the one you dont like? i can easily go and say him taking the shot from thor is PIS because he got worked by rulk and thing, see? it works both ways and its just as relevant as your bullcrap, and even after we cover all that up taking a shot from thor is not enough to go up against prime who is busting realities and anti monitor armor for laughs.

its you who got to do the provings, i just need to show you SBP being able to cut superman with the heat vision like butter and then point out superman durability feats, he can easily survive in the core of the sun and took planetery explosions , super novas, black holes, therefor if you want to even dare to suggest SBP heat vision wont be a problem for those 5 you better bring them feats to supress supermans.

emma was easily shattered by thor's strike, do you honestly tell me to prove prime after easily shattering her with a punch wont be able to use his heat vision to vaporize her pieces? if a strike from thor can shatter her entire form into pieces how hard will it be to just vaporize the pieces with heat vision to the point nothing is left to reform from? and i already adressed the power of SBP heat vision, to question the fact he can easily vaporize her is laughable and unworthy to even consider as logical.

lets see who is the more credible guy here.

me: bringing feats and logic backed by feats and actual comics.
you: going on a wank fest and just ignore any proof and feat provided with childish excuses.

speculations? are you seriously calling facts and feats speculations? i will ask you again are you on pills? or are you just trolling at this point?

dude SBP used his heat vision to destroy planets and kill green lanterns, to even suggest he wont be able to use his heat vision to vaporize emma into the mulacular level is retarded, hell he wont even think about it and wont even try to do it he will just hit her with his heat vision and the power and heat of the heat vision will just destroy her to that point and i already backed that up by logic and feats.

wrong, if SBP will destroy her to the mulecular level and she will have nothing to reform from she is gone, where was it stated that the phoenix force gives you imunity against fire? where was it stated the heat vision is fire? superman can live in the core of the sun while SBP heat vision easily cut and hurt him, so many freakin errors do you even think before you type? so much ignorance is beyond me, your ignorance is over 9000.

i debate speed because thats one of his skills, why wont i debate speed? he fought off at the same time 3 flashes Lol, the phoenix 5 never got a speed boost therefor they have the speed of the original hosts which are ROFL the x - men soeed vs a guy who outfought 3 flashes at the same time and was too fast for superman... hmmmm i wonder its a very hard one.

biased? i am stating nothing but feats and facts, if you cant stand the heat and cant bring the feats its your problem dont go and call someone biased just because you failed against him, i dont have to use any tactics because i got feats on my side and thats all i need.

i already pointed out that namor being hard pressed vs rulk and thing cannot be a low showing because thats the only showing he has among 3 showings, 1 of them is gang banging gladiator along with the entire phoenix 5 so yeah i dont see how thats a feat at all, second one is a short fight with thor and taking his hammer shot to the back of the neck, so basically i can easily go and say that him taking that shot is PIS because rulk and think were owning him, see? thats how the things work, what feats did he ever present to even suggest he can take 1 punch from prime? prime getting taken down by the teen titans is PIS because 98% of his other showings tell us he will kill them to death, hell he took them combined with other teams, does namor have more showings then not to suggest its a PIS? nop.

basically to conclude this you got no feats no nothing for this debate aside of your butthurt and speculations which are not even based on anything logical in the first place, learn to debate properlykido.

you are right this is a waste of time because talking to you is like talking to a wall, at least a wall admits when its wrong Lol

Lol he took out a group of super heroes with power girl among them by just landing

http://playeraffinity.com/images/he_s_back_super.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Sodam yat had his ION powers supressed when he fought mongul with several yellow rings. It was just a daxamite gl vs mongul with rings. As always ODG provides the truth. What issue was this in if you don't mind me asking?

^ That occurs in Green Lantern Corps #36-37. Scar (the corrupted Guardian) completely blocks the Ion power from being accessed when Sodam Yat tackles Mongul solo. Which isn't the fight I'm even referring to. I was referring to Ion Sodam Yat's fight with Mongul throughout Green Lantern Corps #23-26 along with several other GLs.

You'd think if this hide-and-seek-troll would troll so obsessively, he'd get his facts straight before doing so. But, no. Apparently not.

kinda

Oh the obvious troll speaks again. His access to Ion power was blocked in GLC 23-26 too IIRC. I'm not the one who is hiding behind ignore lists since the last time I kicked his ass. To think he has the guts to call me a troll.

The last p5 would be twice as strong as the second to last. This battle is too much for prime. Thor was constantly getting demolished by just one or two p5ers. Hell Cyclops one shotted him with one fifth the power.

Some people try to undermine SBP by his fight with Ion Sodam yat. Here is a weakened prime pwning Guardian of the universe Sodam+Ion power+power of entire central battery

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/lotw26.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/lotw27.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/Superman/lotw28.jpg

Originally posted by DickBlazer
The last p5 would be twice as strong as the second to last. This battle is too much for prime. Thor was constantly getting demolished by just one or two p5ers. Hell Cyclops one shotted him with one fifth the power.

it would still be nothing to prime, besides if prime will use his speed in this fight and there is no reason for him no to then it doesnt matter as he will destroy them within a second, Lol the phoenix force wont be even fast enough to past from one to another before prime oblitirates them.

Prime puts down these dirty ass amped mutants.

Originally posted by red sabre
1) you are probably talking about yourself since i am the one bringing feats and facts while all you do is bring things you pull out of your ass.

2) those are his overall and majority of feats, if the majority of the time he is portrayed that way and the things i stated are not nit picked feats but his overall then i dont see how brining his standard feats can be considered "showing only his high feats".

3) how are those the worst showings of the phoenix 5 when this is probably among the only fights they had in the first place? colossusnaut getting overfought by a punch from gladiator cannot be a low showing for him because he doesnt have other showings to suggest otherwise in the first place, he got a showing of punching thor woohooo omg lets all cream on that, if a character has 1 or 2 showings and in one of the showings he is taken out by someone how the hell can that feat be considered a low feat is thats his only feat? are you on pills?

4) i knew you will bring namor taking that shot to the back of the head, first of all at this point thor is portrayed at very low levels compared to his normal self, his durability took such a downfall that foes just one shot him, its not that hard to figure out he is overall writen as weaker than his normal self and therefor taking a shot from current thor is not a big deal, second of all if namor has 2 feats one of them is getting hard pressed vs rulk and thing and the other is taking a thor show then who said the low showing is the one you dont like? i can easily go and say him taking the shot from thor is PIS because he got worked by rulk and thing, see? it works both ways and its just as relevant as your bullcrap, and even after we cover all that up taking a shot from thor is not enough to go up against prime who is busting realities and anti monitor armor for laughs.

5) its you who got to do the provings, i just need to show you SBP being able to cut superman with the heat vision like butter and then point out superman durability feats, he can easily survive in the core of the sun and took planetery explosions , super novas, black holes, therefor if you want to even dare to suggest SBP heat vision wont be a problem for those 5 you better bring them feats to supress supermans.

6) emma was easily shattered by thor's strike, do you honestly tell me to prove prime after easily shattering her with a punch wont be able to use his heat vision to vaporize her pieces? if a strike from thor can shatter her entire form into pieces how hard will it be to just vaporize the pieces with heat vision to the point nothing is left to reform from? and i already adressed the power of SBP heat vision, to question the fact he can easily vaporize her is laughable and unworthy to even consider as logical.

7) lets see who is the more credible guy here.
me: bringing feats and logic backed by feats and actual comics.
you: going on a wank fest and just ignore any proof and feat provided with childish excuses.
speculations? are you seriously calling facts and feats speculations? i will ask you again are you on pills? or are you just trolling at this point?

8) dude SBP used his heat vision to destroy planets and kill green lanterns, to even suggest he wont be able to use his heat vision to vaporize emma into the mulacular level is retarded, hell he wont even think about it and wont even try to do it he will just hit her with his heat vision and the power and heat of the heat vision will just destroy her to that point and i already backed that up by logic and feats.

9) wrong, if SBP will destroy her to the mulecular level and she will have nothing to reform from she is gone, where was it stated that the phoenix force gives you imunity against fire? where was it stated the heat vision is fire? superman can live in the core of the sun while SBP heat vision easily cut and hurt him, so many freakin errors do you even think before you type? so much ignorance is beyond me, your ignorance is over 9000.

10) i debate speed because thats one of his skills, why wont i debate speed? he fought off at the same time 3 flashes Lol, the phoenix 5 never got a speed boost therefor they have the speed of the original hosts which are ROFL the x - men soeed vs a guy who outfought 3 flashes at the same time and was too fast for superman... hmmmm i wonder its a very hard one.

11) biased? i am stating nothing but feats and facts, if you cant stand the heat and cant bring the feats its your problem dont go and call someone biased just because you failed against him, i dont have to use any tactics because i got feats on my side and thats all i need.

12) i already pointed out that namor being hard pressed vs rulk and thing cannot be a low showing because thats the only showing he has among 3 showings, 1 of them is gang banging gladiator along with the entire phoenix 5 so yeah i dont see how thats a feat at all, second one is a short fight with thor and taking his hammer shot to the back of the neck, so basically i can easily go and say that him taking that shot is PIS because rulk and think were owning him, see? thats how the things work, what feats did he ever present to even suggest he can take 1 punch from prime? prime getting taken down by the teen titans is PIS because 98% of his other showings tell us he will kill them to death, hell he took them combined with other teams, does namor have more showings then not to suggest its a PIS? nop.

13) basically to conclude this you got no feats no nothing for this debate aside of your butthurt and speculations which are not even based on anything logical in the first place, learn to debate properlykido.

14) you are right this is a waste of time because talking to you is like talking to a wall, at least a wall admits when its wrong Lol

As the wall of text of your reply exceeds the post limit here, I'm going to have to reply to you on 2 separate pages.

To all the people who feel that this is TLDR, I apologize in advance. :P

1) Seriously? A "No U!" response? :-/ how positively witty of you. Wait, not really...

You toss around childish insults, you throw a tantrum and then go TROLOLOL like a 10 year old. I'm seriously shaking my head in front of my computer when I read your posts.

We get it. You like Superman. You want him and anyone with his name to win. We like Superman, too. Heck, he's the first comic I ever collected, the first superhero movie I ever saw (and I liked him far more than I liked Star Wars back in the day) and the character I used to dress up as for on Halloween when I was a kid... Back where I come from he's like the prime example of what a superhero is (anyone from the Philippines will tell you that). I just hate it when people like you wank him so badly and treat other posters that "question his powa!" so obnoxiously that people end up disliking the character. Hell, I'm starting to feel a slight dislike for him myself cuz of ppl like you, and this annoys me.

2) When the durability of the characters Prime has damaged with his HV you pull out these feats:

Originally posted by red sabre
on the superman side we got feats of him survivng planetery blasts and supernovas, black holes, and a half galactical blast,

You used ABC logic then did a bit of high feats cherry picking for good measure. I just called you out on it.

Like I said, cheap debating tactics.

3) You overstate SBP feats while nitpicking/undermining other's "showings". Basically, finding their worst "showing" and coming up with the worst interpretation of it.

Case in point:

Originally posted by red sabre
colossusnaut getting overfought by a punch from gladiator

You mean this?

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12643898/WOLVERINE_X-MEN-ZONE-003.jpg.html

Colossus got punched in the face, showed NO damage afterwards, but to you, that's "getting overfought". Never mind that he was shown later on wtfpwning Glads til he was almost dead (they weren't trying to kill him, btw).

Hm. Let's check SBP's "showings" when being punched shall we?

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/blackadamfail3.jpg

MM's punch "rocked" SBP just as much Glads "rocked" Colosunaut in their fight. Is that "Prime getting overfought" by MM? Not really.

Or is it just this?: People get drawn to get "rocked" by punches all the time. But unless you're explicity shown damaged by it during the issue, then any allusion to "damage" is purely speculative.

Truth? Neither got damaged/downed by it during the issue. Thus, unless you see the world is red and blue colored glasses (like some people), neither fo them got "overfought".

Would be nice if you stopped being such a hypocrite.

4) Funny how you pull personal speculative interpretations of Thor "being shown weak" simply to downplay the "showing" Namor had during the arc. More cheap debating tactics ftl. Thing and Hulk rocking him can be attributed to him not accessing the Phoenix force defensively at the time. Use of the PForce seems to require conscious thought from its users and that their defensive ability is not from their physical body but with a form of shielding w/c is indicative of showings of not just the P5 but the Dark Phoenix as well (example: when Jean allowing a moon laser beam to kill her at the end of the DP saga).

5) http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1340/xmtdps126wk7.jpg

The Phoenix force consumes stars for food, whenever a star is consumed it goes supernova with the PForce and its host smack dab at the center of it. It doesn't just tank the supernova, it bathes and revels in it. Like I said, I doubt the heat from HV will be able to vaporize any of the P5. You can disagree, and toss random high feats to try and disguise the fact that that either one of our arguments is all just conjecture either way.

6) See? This argument is logical. Pretty solid, actually. Minus the obnoxious angry teen attitude, this would be a good point. All you have to do now is provide SBP vaporizing someone with HH+ durability with his HV. Provide that, and we can perhaps move the debate forward in a more mature fashion.

7) SMH.

8) Again, I disagree that the heat would vaporize her due to the nature of the Phoenix. We can go back on topic and debate this theory, but you'll have to step back, grow up and get back on topic.

9) Heat vision uses heat and force. I'm aware of that. Force won't kill the SBP as getting pierced, cut and shattered hasn't really killed them. The only thing left is heat.

Pulling out an example of Supes "living in a sun" as a durability "showing" when we all know this amps him up and then throwing the words "error" and "thinking before you type" is really silly, btw. Facepalm silly.

10) Because I never argued against his speed. I argued against him having what it takes to put some of them down permanently due to the nature of their abilities. W/c has nothing to do with his speed. You're just going off on a tangent to try and strawman me.

11) "Failed against him"? SMH. Making up conclusions when the debate isn't over yet only shows how delusional (or dishonest) you are. And yes you are biased. I pray whole heartedly that someday you would gain the maturity to accept the truth on the matter, but I'm sure at this point of time that possibility is still a bit far off.

12) This debate features characters that have a different supply of "feats" to them (obviously).

Getting behind a character with an obvious wealth of "feats" (by comparison) then insisting that "feats" be the only criteria for determining power levels is simply a cheap debating tactic. And you know it.

From what I've read on the debates here in KMC, we can also go by implied power as well as feats when feats themselves are limited in number.

Example: Many Abstracts not having feats but are implied via writing to be far above High Heralds. Tho I'm sure you're not far off from arguing that SBP would kill Eternity via speedblitz eyebeams retcon punch powa.

The nature of the P5's powers puts them (in 1/5th the power of the PForce) to be low trans+. Low trans+ characters with the ability to multiply their powers the more of them gets taken down. Can SBP take on 5 trans+ characters? I happen to doubt it.

13) Stop lying. I pointed out "feats".

Examples:

Originally posted by Nibedicus
She showed matter manipulation enough to reassemble herself from particles, I don't think liquifying would be much of a problem at all.

Originally posted by Nibedicus

Also, the P5 getting distributed evenly as they go down? Go check AvX round 8, it's there. ?
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Okay, proof of higher durability.... No-selling a behind the neck cheapshot by probably the strongest-hitting High Herald out there (Thor) gonna be enough?

Lying is bad you know?

As for more lies from you, lemme point out another (w/c you never addressed):

Originally posted by red sabre
those phoenix 5 got a hard fight vs low level heralds, namor got a run for his money by rulk and thing, colossus got outpowered by gladiator


Originally posted by red sabre
i just presented the facts of phoenix 5 getting trouble from low heralds AND from thor.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
so where exactly did you say Thor here?

Stop lying and grow up.

14) And lastly:

Originally posted by red sabre
you are right this is a waste of time because talking to you is like talking to a wall, at least a wall admits when its wrong Lol

Walls talking back to you now? I fear for your mental health....

Explains a lot, tho.

Prime, because he can.

I'm a Prime fan but no way he's beating the PF divided into 5.

Anyone wanna provide evidence that Prime can defeat 5 trans level beings at once? With this team, each ko (assuming he gets one) makes the remaining members more potent.

This is where you have to draw the line at fanboyism.

I don't like Prime's chances against a mindraping tbh.

If they just fight him physically, sure, Prime's gonna do some damage, but if they use their psionic abilities, as far as I know, Prime has next to no telepathic resistance.

Originally posted by Sundipped
I'm a Prime fan but no way he's beating the PF divided into 5.

Anyone wanna provide evidence that Prime can defeat 5 trans level beings at once? With this team, each ko (assuming he gets one) makes the remaining members more potent.

This is where you have to draw the line at fanboyism.
Meh, their best showings were against a guy that's being jobbed out left and right at Marvel. So unless they got something else up their sleeve fight wise, they are high heralds......AT BEST.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I don't like Prime's chances against a mindraping tbh.

If they just fight him physically, sure, Prime's gonna do some damage, but if they use their psionic abilities, as far as I know, Prime has next to no telepathic resistance.
Uhm, you DID see how Emma failed to affect either Thor or Red Hulk with her PF "enhanced" TP right? Abhi was nice enough to provide a scan comparing this to how Xemnu dealth with Red Hulk using telepathy. Here's a hint, he did MUCH MUCH better than PF Emma. So if the elite telepath "enhanced" by the PF can't do jacksh|t to Red Hulk TP wise (whereas Xemnu owned him), none of the P5 are doing any mindphucking on SBP (Kryptonian mind and all that jazz).

Originally posted by zopzop
Meh, their best showings were against a guy that's being jobbed out left and right at Marvel. So unless they got something else up their sleeve fight wise, they are high heralds......AT BEST.

Uhm, you DID see how Emma failed to affect either Thor or Red Hulk with her PF "enhanced" TP right? Abhi was nice enough to provide a scan comparing this to how Xemnu dealth with Red Hulk using telepathy. Here's a hint, he did MUCH MUCH better than PF Emma. So if the elite telepath "enhanced" by the PF can't do jacksh|t to Red Hulk TP wise (whereas Xemnu owned him), none of the P5 are doing any mindphucking on SBP (Kryptonian mind and all that jazz).

Thor has pretty damn good mental willpower feats, actually. I'd wager he'd win a contest against Prime on that front, as well.

Emma was also recalling Loebforce Rulk feats and didn't want to deal with that sort of shit, so there's that.

Prime doesn't get a freebie pass on mental willpower feats or telepathic resistance just because of who he is.

Originally posted by zopzop
Meh, their best showings were against a guy that's being jobbed out left and right at Marvel. So unless they got something else up their sleeve fight wise, they are high heralds......AT BEST.

Ok so no evidence.

As if Thor is supposed to fare any better than what he did vs a cosmic entity. All showings considered.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor has pretty damn good mental willpower feats, actually. I'd wager he'd win a contest against Prime on that front, as well.

Emma was also recalling Loebforce Rulk feats and didn't want to deal with that sort of shit, so there's that.

Prime doesn't get a freebie pass on mental willpower feats or telepathic resistance just because of who he is.
Still doesn't change the fact that Xemnu > P5 Emma tp wise and I seriously don't see Xemnu doing jackcrap vs SBP tp wise.

Originally posted by zopzop
Still doesn't change the fact that Xemnu > P5 Emma tp wise and I seriously don't see Xemnu doing jackcrap vs SBP tp wise.

Why, though?

Your entire argument is based around Thor and Rulk resisting P5 Emma so iyo, Prime must be able to as well. Thor has a consistent history of resisting such methods of attacks for one thing. Rulk scaring Emma with memories of the Loebforce isn't anything to sneer at, either.

Basically, you don't see Prime being effected by TP from the P5 because...well, just because. Unless you're citing some feats from Prime.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why, though?

Your entire argument is based around Thor and Rulk resisting P5 Emma so iyo, Prime must be able to as well. Thor has a consistent history of resisting such methods of attacks for one thing. Rulk scaring Emma with memories of the Loebforce isn't anything to sneer at, either.

Basically, you don't see Prime being effected by TP from the P5 because...well, just because. Unless you're citing some feats from Prime.
Oversimplification much? Ross directly no sold a command from emma to not change in rulk. That's a piss poor showing, no matter how much you try to wave it away saying it was due to loebforce. A kryptonian mind has always thrown telepaths for loop not to mention such a demented mind of prime. Thor has also been mindcontrolled numerous times and has a sketchy record against telepaths at best. Rulk has no telepathic resistance according to xemnu.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Oversimplification much? Ross directly no sold a command from emma to not change in rulk. That's a piss poor showing, no matter how much you try to wave it away saying it was due to loebforce. A kryptonian mind has always thrown telepaths for loop not to mention such a demented mind of prime. Thor has also been mindcontrolled numerous times and has a sketchy record against telepaths at best. Rulk has no telepathic resistance according to xemnu.



How exactly am I oversimplifying anything?

All I'm asking for is a reason why Prime would no sell telepathy from the Phoenix Five outside of the popular answer "he's Prime". As far as the Loebforce goes, considering that's exactly what she recalled that freaked her out, I'm going out on a limb and assume that it's a redeeming showing for Rulk considering his run of being beat up by everyone since he's stop using the Loebforce.

Kryptonian mind =/= Prime's mind. Even if Prime is more powerful overall than your average Kryptonian, we know for a fact that Prime has had his mind read before and that he's mentally unstable.

Concerning Thor, if you want to look at actual feats, I'm betting I can come up with more instances of Thor resisting mind control and telepathy than you can show me him being mindraped. So not sure where you get his record is "sketchy at best" at all, because, really it's not.

So unless Prime has any decent feats of resisting mind control and/or telepathy of any kind, it's ridiculous to assume that he can resist it as well or better than people who actually have feats doing it.

Prime seems to be thought of as a real bad ass, and I'm wondering if we used only his best feats how well would he do against a full powered Phoenix Avatar? I'm wondering what tier people that know the character best would place him in as well? Is Superman Prime an abstract?

I've always had trouble placing Prime in a tier of power. He's easily a cream of the crop trans, but I'd almost put him in his own category between trans and skyfather.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


How exactly am I oversimplifying anything?

All I'm asking for is a reason why Prime would no sell telepathy from the Phoenix Five outside of the popular answer "he's Prime". As far as the Loebforce goes, considering that's exactly what she recalled that freaked her out, I'm going out on a limb and assume that it's a redeeming showing for Rulk considering his run of being beat up by everyone since he's stop using the Loebforce.

Kryptonian mind =/= Prime's mind. Even if Prime is more powerful overall than your average Kryptonian, we know for a fact that Prime has had his mind read before and that he's mentally unstable.

Concerning Thor, if you want to look at actual feats, I'm betting I can come up with more instances of Thor resisting mind control and telepathy than you can show me him being mindraped. So not sure where you get his record is "sketchy at best" at all, because, really it's not.

So unless Prime has any decent feats of resisting mind control and/or telepathy of any kind, it's ridiculous to assume that he can resist it as well or better than people who actually have feats doing it.
Speculation ftw. I can show you a direct quote from xemnu that rulk has no telepathic resistance. Yeah, thor has some nice feats but lets not assume he's superman or something. He's been mindraped multiple times and it isn't always moondragon. WTH jake, prime's mind=kryptonian mind and saturn queen has killed martian manhunter twice easily in psi combat, a feat unheard of. Considering saturn girl has universal level telepathy and she didn't attempt to mindrape prime, I'm going out on a limb and saying that emma would get in a coma peeking in SBP's mind. Speculations ftw.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Speculation ftw. I can show you a direct quote from xemnu that rulk has no telepathic resistance. Yeah, thor has some nice feats but lets not assume he's superman or something. He's been mindraped multiple times and it isn't always moondragon. WTH jake, prime's mind=kryptonian mind and saturn queen has killed martian manhunter twice easily in psi combat, a feat unheard of. Considering saturn girl has universal level telepathy and she didn't attempt to mindrape prime, I'm going out on a limb and saying that emma would get in a coma peeking in SBP's mind. Speculations ftw.

baka

Way to miss the point like completely.

Rulk has no telepathic resistance according to Xemnu. He then scares the bejeezus out of Emma with the Phoenix Force. Rulk is a pretty sketchy character due to what he's capable of with the Loebforce - something he's been stated to be holding back from tapping into due to him wanting to retain his humanity - and how he'll get two pieced rather unceremoniously.

Thor, on the other hand, does have a storied history of resisting mind raping and psychic based attacks. Sure, he has moments of failing to them, but he also has showings of being hurt by bullets and falling debris. So, again, unless you want to try and prove Thor's history against such methods of attacks is more on the failing side than it is on the winning side, trying to discredit his tried and true history of dealing with such attacks to prove that Prime must be able to do it too based on his status is a lousy and lazy argument.

Prime has a Kryptonian mind. He's also psychologically unhinged and has plenty of vulnerable points to attack on that front. Prime doesn't get an auto-pass just because he's Prime, which is my whole point. A lot of characters didn't use their most powerful attacks on Prime, either through choice or not getting the chance to. Doesn't mean Prime would no sell them.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
baka

Way to miss the point like completely.

Rulk has no telepathic resistance according to Xemnu. He then scares the bejeezus out of Emma with the Phoenix Force. Rulk is a pretty sketchy character due to what he's capable of with the Loebforce - something he's been stated to be holding back from tapping into due to him wanting to retain his humanity - and how he'll get two pieced rather unceremoniously.

Thor, on the other hand, does have a storied history of resisting mind raping and psychic based attacks. Sure, he has moments of failing to them, but he also has showings of being hurt by bullets and falling debris. So, again, unless you want to try and prove Thor's history against such methods of attacks is more on the failing side than it is on the winning side, trying to discredit his tried and true history of dealing with such attacks to prove that Prime must be able to do it too based on his status is a lousy and lazy argument.

Prime has a Kryptonian mind. He's also psychologically unhinged and has plenty of vulnerable points to attack on that front. Prime doesn't get an auto-pass just because he's Prime, which is my whole point. A lot of characters didn't use their most powerful attacks on Prime, either through choice or not getting the chance to. Doesn't mean Prime would no sell them.
Again speculations ftw. Rulk has on panel been mindraped by a telepath who couldn't mindrape savage hulk. You can quote loebforce all you want, but there is no such thing in comics and all of that has been retconned. If emma can be frightened by rulk beating watcher and silver surfer, imagine beating anti-monitor and monarch and time trapper. She would get in a coma. It wasn't due to thor's exceptional record against telepaths which isn't as exceptional as you think, it was due to his godhood. I can see kryptonian minds doing the same to her as there is a long history of them doing it. Even a deranged kryptonian mind like prime's. Thor got a pass, rulk got a pass, but prime who doesn't has a single bad showing against telepaths even after facing such telepaths like J'onn, saturn girl and such doesn't gets one? Nice one jake.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Again speculations ftw. Rulk has on panel been mindraped by a telepath who couldn't mindrape savage hulk. You can quote loebforce all you want, but there is no such thing in comics and all of that has been retconned. If emma can be frightened by rulk beating watcher and silver surfer, imagine beating anti-monitor and monarch and time trapper. She would get in a coma. It wasn't due to thor's exceptional record against telepaths which isn't as exceptional as you think, it was due to his godhood. I can see kryptonian minds doing the same to her as there is a long history of them doing it. Even a deranged kryptonian mind like prime's. Thor got a pass, rulk got a pass, but prime who doesn't has a single bad showing against telepaths even after facing such telepaths like J'onn, saturn girl and such doesn't gets one? Nice one jake.

Loebforce is just a funny way of saying "Rulk with Absorbing Powers" which haven't been retconned at all. He just doesn't use them because every time he does, he runs the risk of losing his humanity and staying Rulk forever. Not sure where you get the idea it's been retconned. If anything, it's Rulk consciously nerfing himself. You're also missing Rulk killing Grandmaster and the Defenders and facing down Galactus, as well.

How isn't Thor's record against telepathy isn't as exceptional as I think when what I think is actually the facts we've seen due to on panel proof? It's not my fault if you're unaware of those feats, but if you can't prove my stance on Thor's telepathy is wrong or misplaced outside of your claims that they are, well, you don't really have a leg to stand on. Again, if you'd like to prove me wrong or cite all the instances where Thor has been beaten by telepathy or mind based/psychic assaults and oppose them to Thor's resistance feats, by all means.

Thor gets a "pass" because he actually has a multitude of feats resisting telepathy or psychic attacks. Rulk scared Emma Frost on panel. When did J'onn or Saturn Girl attempt to read Prime's mind or psychically attack him and fail?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Rulk scared Emma Frost on panel.
You're saying this as if it helps your point, it doesn't. PF Emma feared Rulk and couldn't do jack to him TP wise.

Xemnu OWNED Rulk.

SBP is a rage driven being with a Kryptonian mind. None of the P5 are doing jack to him TP wise, especially since their most adept member was powerless TP wise vs Rulk (who was owned by Xemnu).

Originally posted by zopzop
You're saying this as if it helps your point, it doesn't. PF Emma feared Rulk and couldn't do jack to him TP wise.

Xemnu OWNED Rulk.

SBP is a rage driven being with a Kryptonian mind. None of the P5 are doing jack to him TP wise, especially since their most adept member was powerless TP wise vs Rulk (who was owned by Xemnu).

Let's make this easy:

What feats of telepathy resistance does Prime have on panel?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Loebforce is just a funny way of saying "Rulk with Absorbing Powers" which haven't been retconned at all. He just doesn't use them because every time he does, he runs the risk of losing his humanity and staying Rulk forever. Not sure where you get the idea it's been retconned. If anything, it's Rulk consciously nerfing himself. You're also missing Rulk killing Grandmaster and the Defenders and facing down Galactus, as well.

How isn't Thor's record against telepathy isn't as exceptional as I think when what I think is actually the facts we've seen due to on panel proof? It's not my fault if you're unaware of those feats, but if you can't prove my stance on Thor's telepathy is wrong or misplaced outside of your claims that they are, well, you don't really have a leg to stand on. Again, if you'd like to prove me wrong or cite all the instances where Thor has been beaten by telepathy or mind based/psychic assaults and oppose them to Thor's resistance feats, by all means.

Thor gets a "pass" because he actually has a multitude of feats resisting telepathy or psychic attacks. Rulk scared Emma Frost on panel. When did J'onn or Saturn Girl attempt to read Prime's mind or psychically attack him and fail?
None of the "loebforce" has jackshit to do with TP so its moot. Not to mention that rulk has lost the ability after the fight with omegex, he can only absorb gamma mutates now. None of that was mentioned, emma was scared shitless because she saw him beating watcher and silver surfer. You don't want me to go there when thor was mindraped jake, trust me. Suffice to say he's had much troubld with telepaths and none of them go nuts because he's a god. J'onn had ample oppertunity to stop prime in IC and he even read his mind, saturn girl had her oppertunity too in LO3W. None of them go nuts by seeing him kill anti-monitor btw.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Let's make this easy:

What feats of telepathy resistance does Prime have on panel?
He has more than rulk though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
None of the "loebforce" has jackshit to do with TP so its moot. Not to mention that rulk has lost the ability after the fight with omegex, he can only absorb gamma mutates now. None of that was mentioned, emma was scared shitless because she saw him beating watcher and silver surfer. You don't want me to go there when thor was mindraped jake, trust me. Suffice to say he's had much troubld with telepaths and none of them go nuts because he's a god. J'onn had ample oppertunity to stop prime in IC and he even read his mind, saturn girl had her oppertunity too in LO3W. None of them go nuts by seeing him kill anti-monitor btw.

No, please. Go there as far as Thor's less than impressive mental resistance feats go. I'm curious what you're basing this off of and what feats come to mind which make you think his examples of falling to mindraping > his instances of resisting such attacks. Not sure what counts as "much trouble", either.

So they didn't use mind rape on Prime means that they can't? That doesn't make sense. Thor doesn't Anti-Force people all the time. Doesn't mean he can't. Hell, Odin doesn't mindrape his opponents all the time. Doesn't mean he can't.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He has more than rulk though.

Like?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
No, please. Go there as far as Thor's less than impressive mental resistance feats go. I'm curious what you're basing this off of and what feats come to mind which make you think his examples of falling to mindraping > his instances of resisting such attacks. Not sure what counts as "much trouble", either.

So they didn't use mind rape on Prime means that they can't? That doesn't make sense. Thor doesn't Anti-Force people all the time. Doesn't mean he can't. Hell, Odin doesn't mindrape his opponents all the time. Doesn't mean he can't.
Just off my head loki has controlled him many times, terminatrix, xavier, enchantress, moondragon etc. I'd have to go through my thor collection for more but trust me its enough to say that he's been mindcontrolled enough times.
Thor doesn't anti-force and return it from near someone. J'onn read his mind in IC that he is going to Oa and was unable to stop him. Likewise saturn queen failed to stop him in LO3W when he was in panic hearing that bart was coming back. He's so messed up that black rings combusts up when he goes apeshit by sheer emotions.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Just off my head loki has controlled him many times, terminatrix, xavier, enchantress, moondragon etc. I'd have to go through my thor collection for more but trust me its enough to say that he's been mindcontrolled enough times.
Thor doesn't anti-force and return it from near someone. J'onn read his mind in IC that he is going to Oa and was unable to stop him. Likewise saturn girl failed to do anything to him in LO3W too. He's so messed up that black rings combusts up when he goes apeshit by sheer emotions.

And you think those examples outweigh the times he's resisted them and the people he's resisted it from? You'd be wrong in that assumption, but I'm curious if you do feel that way.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And you think those examples outweigh the times he's resisted them and the people he's resisted it from? You'd be wrong in that assumption, but I'm curious if you do feel that way.
I don't, that's why I called his record sketchy. But none of telepaths AFAIK had trouble with him because he is a god.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I don't, that's why I called his record sketchy. But none of telepaths AFAIK had trouble with him because he is a god.

Emma and Rachel did for that reason. Similar to how a Kryptonian mind is generally harder to read/control than a baseline human, which seems to be the basis for Prime's argument.

The vast majority of his mental defense feats are done through sheer force of will. In any case, his positive showings outweigh his negative ones, both in quality and quantity. Nothing really sketchy about it. I'd never argue he's TP immune, but he does have extraordinary feats.

But let's say Prime is able to resist Emma. How does he fare against the Phoenix Force divided into fewer mutants, therefore becoming more potent? Can Prime no sell the raw telepathy of the Force?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Emma and Rachel did for that reason. Similar to how a Kryptonian mind is generally harder to read/control than a baseline human, which seems to be the basis for Prime's argument.

The vast majority of his mental defense feats are done through sheer force of will. In any case, his positive showings outweigh his negative ones, both in quality and quantity. Nothing really sketchy about it. I'd never argue he's TP immune, but he does have extraordinary feats.

But let's say Prime is able to resist Emma. How does he fare against the Phoenix Force divided into fewer mutants, therefore becoming more potent? Can Prime no sell the raw telepathy of the Force?
None of the other P5 have any mentionable telepathy. Its a physical fight like every P5 fight so far. Can prime win that? I'm not sure.

Originally posted by abhilegend
None of the other P5 have any mentionable telepathy. Its a physical fight like every P5 fight so far. Can prime win that? I'm not sure.
Don't know if its mentionable or not , but Scott did have a tp conversation with Xavier in the beginning of #6 :
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12348175_A_vs_X-Zone_006.jpg

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Don't know if its mentionable or not , but Scott did have a tp conversation with Xavier in the beginning of #6 :
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12348175_A_vs_X-Zone_006.jpg

Nice.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Don't know if its mentionable or not , but Scott did have a tp conversation with Xavier in the beginning of #6 :
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12348175_A_vs_X-Zone_006.jpg
That's not a TP feat for scott though. Xavier and emma have telepathic conversation with him before.

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not a TP feat for scott though. Xavier and emma have telepathic conversation with him before.
This case was somewhat different as he initiated this convo , under his own(phoenix-granted) power , though . Also that's the reason why I stated "Don't know if its mentionable or not" .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
This case was somewhat different as he initiated this convo , under his own(phoenix-granted) power , though . Also that's the reason why I stated "Don't know if its mentionable or not" .
I wouldn't call that he started the conversation under his own power. I thought xavier was picking up his thoughts. These are not mentionable though, even superman has astral projected himself (no t-vo). That doesn't mean he is going to mindrape someone.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I wouldn't call that he started the conversation under his own power. I thought xavier was picking up his thoughts. These are not mentionable though, even superman has astral projected himself (no t-vo). That doesn't mean he is going to mindrape someone.
Did you even bother to read the scan ?
"Hello , Professor . I know why you've come . I can see it in your mind ."
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/12348175_A_vs_X-Zone_006.jpg

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) Seriously? A "No U!" response? :-/ how positively witty of you. Wait, not really...

You toss around childish insults, you throw a tantrum and then go TROLOLOL like a 10 year old. I'm seriously shaking my head in front of my computer when I read your posts.

We get it. You like Superman. You want him and anyone with his name to win. We like Superman, too. Heck, he's the first comic I ever collected, the first superhero movie I ever saw (and I liked him far more than I liked Star Wars back in the day) and the character I used to dress up as for on Halloween when I was a kid... Back where I come from he's like the prime example of what a superhero is (anyone from the Philippines will tell you that). I just hate it when people like you wank him so badly and treat other posters that "question his powa!" so obnoxiously that people end up disliking the character. Hell, I'm starting to feel a slight dislike for him myself cuz of ppl like you, and this annoys me.

2) When the durability of the characters Prime has damaged with his HV you pull out these feats:



You used ABC logic then did a bit of high feats cherry picking for good measure. I just called you out on it.

Like I said, cheap debating tactics.

3) You overstate SBP feats while nitpicking/undermining other's "showings". Basically, finding their worst "showing" and coming up with the worst interpretation of it.

Case in point:



You mean this?

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/12643898/WOLVERINE_X-MEN-ZONE-003.jpg.html

Colossus got punched in the face, showed NO damage afterwards, but to you, that's "getting overfought". Never mind that he was shown later on wtfpwning Glads til he was almost dead (they weren't trying to kill him, btw).

Hm. Let's check SBP's "showings" when being punched shall we?

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc260/Superman-Prime_Respect/blackadamfail3.jpg

MM's punch "rocked" SBP just as much Glads "rocked" Colosunaut in their fight. Is that "Prime getting overfought" by MM? Not really.

Or is it just this?: People get drawn to get "rocked" by punches all the time. But unless you're explicity shown damaged by it during the issue, then any allusion to "damage" is purely speculative.

Truth? Neither got damaged/downed by it during the issue. Thus, unless you see the world is red and blue colored glasses (like some people), neither fo them got "overfought".

Would be nice if you stopped being such a hypocrite.

4) Funny how you pull personal speculative interpretations of Thor "being shown weak" simply to downplay the "showing" Namor had during the arc. More cheap debating tactics ftl. Thing and Hulk rocking him can be attributed to him not accessing the Phoenix force defensively at the time. Use of the PForce seems to require conscious thought from its users and that their defensive ability is not from their physical body but with a form of shielding w/c is indicative of showings of not just the P5 but the Dark Phoenix as well (example: when Jean allowing a moon laser beam to kill her at the end of the DP saga).

5) http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1340/xmtdps126wk7.jpg

The Phoenix force consumes stars for food, whenever a star is consumed it goes supernova with the PForce and its host smack dab at the center of it. It doesn't just tank the supernova, it bathes and revels in it. Like I said, I doubt the heat from HV will be able to vaporize any of the P5. You can disagree, and toss random high feats to try and disguise the fact that that either one of our arguments is all just conjecture either way.

6) See? This argument is logical. Pretty solid, actually. Minus the obnoxious angry teen attitude, this would be a good point. All you have to do now is provide SBP vaporizing someone with HH+ durability with his HV. Provide that, and we can perhaps move the debate forward in a more mature fashion.

7) SMH.

8) Again, I disagree that the heat would vaporize her due to the nature of the Phoenix. We can go back on topic and debate this theory, but you'll have to step back, grow up and get back on topic.

9) Heat vision uses heat and force. I'm aware of that. Force won't kill the SBP as getting pierced, cut and shattered hasn't really killed them. The only thing left is heat.

Pulling out an example of Supes "living in a sun" as a durability "showing" when we all know this amps him up and then throwing the words "error" and "thinking before you type" is really silly, btw. Facepalm silly.

10) Because I never argued against his speed. I argued against him having what it takes to put some of them down permanently due to the nature of their abilities. W/c has nothing to do with his speed. You're just going off on a tangent to try and strawman me.

11) "Failed against him"? SMH. Making up conclusions when the debate isn't over yet only shows how delusional (or dishonest) you are. And yes you are biased. I pray whole heartedly that someday you would gain the maturity to accept the truth on the matter, but I'm sure at this point of time that possibility is still a bit far off.

12) This debate features characters that have a different supply of "feats" to them (obviously).

Getting behind a character with an obvious wealth of "feats" (by comparison) then insisting that "feats" be the only criteria for determining power levels is simply a cheap debating tactic. And you know it.

From what I've read on the debates here in KMC, we can also go by implied power as well as feats when feats themselves are limited in number.

Example: Many Abstracts not having feats but are implied via writing to be far above High Heralds. Tho I'm sure you're not far off from arguing that SBP would kill Eternity via speedblitz eyebeams retcon punch powa.

The nature of the P5's powers puts them (in 1/5th the power of the PForce) to be low trans+. Low trans+ characters with the ability to multiply their powers the more of them gets taken down. Can SBP take on 5 trans+ characters? I happen to doubt it.

13) Stop lying. I pointed out "feats".

Examples:





Lying is bad you know?

As for more lies from you, lemme point out another (w/c you never addressed):







Stop lying and grow up.

14) And lastly:



Walls talking back to you now? I fear for your mental health....

Explains a lot, tho.

too long to quote so here we go

well thats your level of so called argument and your level of wit and therefor all you deserve is a "NO YOU" reply to that bullshit of yours.

u mad again? its not my fault your argument deserves all those titles, shaking your head in front of the PC? ytour condition is even worse than i thought you should go outside breath some air if an internet post make you sheak your head with nerves Lol.

superman? i thought this thread is about prime no? only shows that you are one of those groupers that got some vendeta against superman and everything relatded to DC Lol.

good for you that you used to dress up like superman it doesnt change the fact your argument is based on stupidity.

how am i wanking superman when i am discussing superboy prime? how am i wanking superboy prime when all i do is state facts about him? you know what i love? everytime some A hole got some agenda against some character he always goes with same bullshit as you "oh dont get me wrong i love the character its just that...." you know what it reminds me? it reminds me of people that always go like "oh dont get me wrong i got black friends" when you see shit like that you know he is going to be one racist mozafacka Lol same thing with you.

thats not ABC logic its just the way the things are, yes prime cut superman like butter and in order to determain how powerful that was we go for superman durability feats to see where does it stands, its not ABC logic to state that superman easily survived planetery level and galactic level explosions in order to see how powerful prime attack was, ABC logic is what you do with the phoenix 5 based on 1 dumb feat Lol.

its not tactics its just stating the feats as they are, you can cry moan and try to bypass it with dirty crap all you want, the feats and facts are on my side and there is not a single thing you can do about it.

i am asking you again genius how the hell can it be low showing if its the only showing or 1 showing among 2? what showings does the phoenix colossus has to say gladiator overpower him with a punch is a low showing? IT IS his showing because unlike prime with teen titans he doesnt have tons of showings to contredict the event, him being able to land a punch on thor does not mean the other showing was a low one.

yes it was outfoughting colossus and since you are not the sharpest pencil in the box i will explain, we see gladiator fight colossus right? we see gladiator punch colossus so hard colossus eyes are closed and by his face expression it hurts, then after that you see gladiator fight someone else there is no colossus around which means colossus was taken out for several moments and outfought by gladiator, and Lol at you bringing colossus and the other phoenix 5 beating gladiator combined Lol you are making a fool out of yourself seriously, you actually dare to bring colossus with the other phoenix 5 beating poor gladiator as some kind of showing? pathetic.

that scan is martian manhunter punching him who is >> gladiator, then we got the fact right in the next pannel prime is fine unlike colossus who we dont see in the next panel, then we got the fact prime beat the shit out of martian manhunter twice , then we got the fact it wasnt 1 vs 1 but half of DC roster vs prime combined, and what you get is you being wrong and confuced again.

i already explained the differences between the 2, prime owned MM twice already, he fought not only MM but many others combined, and he was ok after that punch we see him right in the next pannel attacked by others, colossus on the other hand got punched by gladiator and we dont see him fighting him again we see gladiator fighting someone else which means colossus went down for the count for several moments, colossus has no other wins over gladiator aside of the gang bang with the other phoenix 5 members.

speculations? its a fact that thor is overall weaker and easily taken out by things and attacks he shouldnt, overall marvel portray him weaker for some reason to the point everybody are one shoting him thats sad you are trying to use it, and second of all i already explained that it can be a PIS moment because he got owned at first by rulk and thing.

can you prove he didnt use the phoenix force? he was possessed by the phoenix force and fought them, when he finally snap rulk aram we dont see anything stating or showing that he suddenly tapped into anything new he just got pissed at them thats all, more speculations pulled out of your ass?

you are adressing the phoenix force as whole, this is not phoenix force as whole those are 5 individuals with the phoenix force therefor its 1/5 of the phoenix force durability for each, and as i said before can you prove prime heat vision is only heat? superman can survive with no trouble at all in the sun and took galactical and planetery explosions, however the heat vision cut him like butter, its a different force than just heat and its very concetrated as well, more things you would like to pull out of your ass with no backing up?

as i stated before if a hammer strike from thor was able to shatter emma and basically break her into pieces there is no reason to believe a heat vision attack wont be able to vaporize those pieces that are left.

first of all provide me durability feats from emma's shattered body that suggest she cant be vaporized, prime cut superman, killed solomon grundy, killed Green lanters with his heat vision, provide me any feats from emmas shuttered body pieces that suggest they cant be vaporized, as of right now her durability feats show us that thor with a hammer strike can shatter her into pieces which is laughable to assume a heat vision from prime wont vaporize her and the ground she is standing on.

show me batman taking a shit on panel, are you for real? just because he never vaporized anyone doesnt mean he wont do it if needed, wtf? he is the biggest jerk out there he is even more brutal than black adam this guy will do anything and there is no limit to it and if he will see that emma reforms herself he will go like reform from this and vaporize her its within his character.

first of all grow a pair and be a man to admit when you are wrong, then you can start talking with me or anyone else about growing up, you bring so much bullshit into this with nothing to back you up, you claim emma cant be vaporized by prime? based on what? what are her durability feats? she got shattered to pieces by thor she is nothing to a trans level like prime who cut superman like a butter with his heat vision, you have to do a lot of proving and if you cant just step back and admit that you were wrong, but you are not man enough for that you are just a kid.

heat vision use heat force? and? again superman took the heat of a sun and supernovas before, he couldnt take the heat vision, even heat has different degree of heat and force per squere, the heat vision is pressure combined with the heat, as we saw that pressure concetrated on small area combined with the heat easily cut superman who whitstood redicilous things that are heat based before.

yes it is valid, you are talking about heat then i bring the fact superman can live in a sun and he still got burned by the heat vision which means primes heat vision is too damn powerful because of the heat and pressure combined, hell lets take nonarch, in arena several supermans combined couldnt hurt monarch with a heat vision, prime while losing a big portion of the guardian amp hurt him with his, not all heat vision are in the same area of heat and force.

i am using his speed as another example of why and how SBP will wtf stomp those 5 clowns.

strawman you? dude i oblitirated you with feats and facts, all you do is pull things out of your ass and make a fool out of yourself, even posters like carver at this point could dominate you Lol.

yep you failed at trying to present everything you were trying to present, thats because you got no proof and no avidence on your side.

the debate was over long time ago, but the thing is you dont have the pair to admit you were wrong so you go circles with me stating the same things again and again and getting slapped by me over those things again and again, thats not debating thats you trolling.

nop thats not a cheap debating its a very valid one, you are just mad that you dont have feats to back up your imaginary bullshit and therefor every time i rub your nose against the truth you call that cheap tactics, Lol so bringing feats is cheap tactics? now i understand how your mind works and it explains your arguments, in your eyes bringing feats into a debate is cheap tactics , i will keep that in mind.

abstracts are abstracts nuff said, phoenix 5 are what exactly again? the phoeniux devided by 5 ? and we go by feats and see exactly how that helps them out Lol.

abstracts got nothing to contredict their title, however if the phoenix 5 has some implied power however then we see that feats show them as much weaker then we are going by feats because feats are >>>> all and specially implied power.

prove they are low trans level beings, not that i have too much problem with that but i would love to see where you get your facts from.

you dont bring feats just specualtions and state bullshit that doesnt relate the reality, i bring you a feat of those guys getting owned and you call that lowballing even with the facts this is either the only feat or 1 among 2, you are a joke.

walls are just more logical than you are thats all.

P5, if he beats one then the rest get the left over power so eventually he will fight a entity with the full power of the phoenix (in theory at least).

Originally posted by Nibedicus

Is it just me or does superman, hulk and gladiator have really rabid people trying to make em win regardless of logic here?

lol

Did you basically gloss over what I wrote, a lot of what you said didn't address my points at all.... I'm not even gonna bother quoting the mess you put together up there, but let me address them nonetheless:

Firstly, in netspeak, when ppl shake their head they feel pity and/or exasperation. Where do you get these "shaking head from nerves" info you're using? Perhaps poor understanding explains your poor grasp of what "logical" is?

Yes, I DO have an agenda. I want ppl to not dislike the character because some obnoxious internet troll just can't live with the idea that a character CAN lose in a fight. Only 9 year olds can get all personal and obnoxious over the "my guyzs winzzza cuz of his powaaaa" arguments. The rest of us actually like a character based on the way the stories are written and what the character represents. And a lot of us actually want OTHER ppl to LIKE their fave character instead of making ppl annoyed by jealously guarding his char's battle rep. I mean, what do you even get out of this???

How do you even consider yourself a true fan when all you do is spread venom and hate about the character you love? You're not a real fan, just a spoiled little child.

But going back to your "rebuttals/responses":

1) It IS high feats cherry picking + ABC logic. It's the very definition of it. Unless you're saying that those high durability feats are the NORM for Superman. Read up on what ABC logic is and read up on what cherry picking is pls.

2) Because YOU DO FOCUS on the lowest showing among the few he has. You then go about lowballing/undermining it to the best of your ability via your lousy/biased interpretation skills.

3) Pure speculation. It can be said just as easily that he hit Colossus then flew off to save Warbird from getting killed by Magik. The story seems to corroborate this. There were tons of other Imperial Guard that Colossus could have fought in the meantime w/c would explain his absence while the story focused on Gladiator. It's pretty obvious how your lowballing mind works tho as "Colossus was down" is the only interpretation that can seem to enter your head.

4) Really?? "We don't see him next panel" is enough evidence for you? Is that how it works now? If a character isn't seen the next panel, that's enough evidence to assume that he was "overfought". You DO know in court this is seen as purely speculative and circumstantial AT BEST and would not be usable as factual evidence at all.

5) No it's not, Colossus got pushed back w/ a slight look of pain in his face. SBP got thrown back with a slight look of pain in his face. This is almost identical. Your only differentiating factor is that "Colossus is not seen next panel". W/c is really just a desperate biased speculation being presented as fact that only really works if you have a poor grasp of logic and reasoning. It really isn't fact you know.

What punching feats does MM have that make him >> than Gladiator? You might wanna open a thread about that and see how well you fare (tho I'm already expecting your main reasoning to be "because MM punched SBP and hurt him!!" :laugh

Pime owning MM has nothing to do with my rebuttal. Stop going on a tangent and stop strawmanning. It's wasting my time even more.

6) W/c Thor one shots prove that he is being written a lot weaker? What narrative on-panel evidence can you point out that proves this? If it's a fact, what proof do you have? Unless you can prove what you're saying, it's all just pure speculation.

7) Fluctuations of durability can be explained via one's degree of tapping into the Phoenix force. While I agree this is purely speculative, I'm only showing that there are other interpretations that are more feasible than your bogus "Thor's hit was weaker or its PIS" explanation. This needs no proof as I made no assertion of fact just the existence of reasonable doubt and other potential and viable interpretations. At least I admit to speculation, unlike you who constantly tout your biased opinions as facts (w/c seems to be indicative of your poor grasp of logical reasoning).

With your utterly BIASED way of looking at things, you would like ppl to believe that Thing/Rulk hurting him = norm and him tanking a full force Thor strike to the back of the head as = PIS. Really shows how your mind works (rabidly biased).

8) I had to quote this, just too too precious not to:

Originally posted by red fibber
show me batman taking a shit on panel, are you for real? just because he never vaporized anyone doesnt mean he wont do it if needed, wtf? he is the biggest jerk out there he is even more brutal than black adam this guy will do anything and there is no limit to it and if he will see that emma reforms herself he will go like reform from this and vaporize her its within his character.

You're SUCH A HYPOCRITE. You go around saying "post proof of this and that" and you turn around and go "oh but I don't need to post him doing this, it's entirely in his character.."

Hypocrite.

"but you are not man enough for that you are just a kid". LOL. Should I be insulted? I seriously hope English isn't your primary language.

9) I'm not addressing the PForce as a whole, I'm describing the nature of its host's powers. While, again, being speculative, is no more speculative than the theories you like to keep touting as fact. At least there are scans that support my theories (to an extent).

When was the last time you posted a scan proving your point in this debate??

10) Prove to me SBP vaporizes ppl (outside of an overload) on panel first or STFU. Stop being a hypocrite.

11) Do I NEED to keep explaining that the sun amps Superman??? This is not evidence of his heat resistance at all. I know that Supes has elite resistance to heat. But you using him living in the sun THAT AMPS him as evidence of heat resistance is really further indicative of your poor grasp of logical reasoning.

12) Do I NEED to keep mentioning that I KNOW that SBP's speed will be a great factor and that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I'M DEBATING HERE??? Again, you = poor grasp of logical reasoning.

13) The only thing you "obliterated" was your perception of reality.

14) Again, stop lying or at least read what I wrote. You trying to discount via my evidence via poor reasoning/logic =/= to me not presenting facts.

15) Low showings? You mean the hosts (who are very much mortal) getting bloodied BUT NOT EVER BEING PUT DOWN AT ALL OUTSIDE OF A PLOT DEVICE is a low showing? Their trans+ implied power was written all throughout AvX. Did you read it at all?

16) Destroying a team with several low heralds as well as a high herald is enough evidence of them being trans+. There is no questioning this.

17) You really haven't presented much evidence at all... Where do you keep getting this idea of you having this overwhelming evidence presentation w/in this debate? If you believe this, your grasp of reality might be in question.

Originally posted by red fibber
walls are just more logical

Ok, it's not in question now. You're genuinely bonkers.

18) The only joke here is you. Not a very funny joke. But a big fat smelly (and slightly deranged) one nonetheless.

What's funny is that with no rebuttal to my evidence of your dishonesty, you've basically admitted that you're a liar.

I guess you don't deny your dishonesty, should I call you red fibber from now on?

subtle touch with the name..... lol

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Did you basically gloss over what I wrote, a lot of what you said didn't address my points at all.... I'm not even gonna bother quoting the mess you put together up there, but let me address them nonetheless:

Firstly, in netspeak, when ppl shake their head they feel pity and/or exasperation. Where do you get these "shaking head from nerves" info you're using? Perhaps poor understanding explains your poor grasp of what "logical" is?

Yes, I DO have an agenda. I want ppl to not dislike the character because some obnoxious internet troll just can't live with the idea that a character CAN lose in a fight. Only 9 year olds can get all personal and obnoxious over the "my guyzs winzzza cuz of his powaaaa" arguments. The rest of us actually like a character based on the way the stories are written and what the character represents. And a lot of us actually want OTHER ppl to LIKE their fave character instead of making ppl annoyed by jealously guarding his char's battle rep. I mean, what do you even get out of this???

How do you even consider yourself a true fan when all you do is spread venom and hate about the character you love? You're not a real fan, just a spoiled little child.

But going back to your "rebuttals/responses":

1) It IS high feats cherry picking + ABC logic. It's the very definition of it. Unless you're saying that those high durability feats are the NORM for Superman. Read up on what ABC logic is and read up on what cherry picking is pls.

2) Because YOU DO FOCUS on the lowest showing among the few he has. You then go about lowballing/undermining it to the best of your ability via your lousy/biased interpretation skills.

3) Pure speculation. It can be said just as easily that he hit Colossus then flew off to save Warbird from getting killed by Magik. The story seems to corroborate this. There were tons of other Imperial Guard that Colossus could have fought in the meantime w/c would explain his absence while the story focused on Gladiator. It's pretty obvious how your lowballing mind works tho as "Colossus was down" is the only interpretation that can seem to enter your head.

4) Really?? "We don't see him next panel" is enough evidence for you? Is that how it works now? If a character isn't seen the next panel, that's enough evidence to assume that he was "overfought". You DO know in court this is seen as purely speculative and circumstantial AT BEST and would not be usable as factual evidence at all.

5) No it's not, Colossus got pushed back w/ a slight look of pain in his face. SBP got thrown back with a slight look of pain in his face. This is almost identical. Your only differentiating factor is that "Colossus is not seen next panel". W/c is really just a desperate biased speculation being presented as fact that only really works if you have a poor grasp of logic and reasoning. It really isn't fact you know.

What punching feats does MM have that make him >> than Gladiator? You might wanna open a thread about that and see how well you fare (tho I'm already expecting your main reasoning to be "because MM punched SBP and hurt him!!" :laugh

Pime owning MM has nothing to do with my rebuttal. Stop going on a tangent and stop strawmanning. It's wasting my time even more.

6) W/c Thor one shots prove that he is being written a lot weaker? What narrative on-panel evidence can you point out that proves this? If it's a fact, what proof do you have? Unless you can prove what you're saying, it's all just pure speculation.

7) Fluctuations of durability can be explained via one's degree of tapping into the Phoenix force. While I agree this is purely speculative, I'm only showing that there are other interpretations that are more feasible than your bogus "Thor's hit was weaker or its PIS" explanation. This needs no proof as I made no assertion of fact just the existence of reasonable doubt and other potential and viable interpretations. At least I admit to speculation, unlike you who constantly tout your biased opinions as facts (w/c seems to be indicative of your poor grasp of logical reasoning).

With your utterly BIASED way of looking at things, you would like ppl to believe that Thing/Rulk hurting him = norm and him tanking a full force Thor strike to the back of the head as = PIS. Really shows how your mind works (rabidly biased).

8) I had to quote this, just too too precious not to:



You're SUCH A HYPOCRITE. You go around saying "post proof of this and that" and you turn around and go "oh but I don't need to post him doing this, it's entirely in his character.."

Hypocrite.

"but you are not man enough for that you are just a kid". LOL. Should I be insulted? I seriously hope English isn't your primary language.

9) I'm not addressing the PForce as a whole, I'm describing the nature of its host's powers. While, again, being speculative, is no more speculative than the theories you like to keep touting as fact. At least there are scans that support my theories (to an extent).

When was the last time you posted a scan proving your point in this debate??

10) Prove to me SBP vaporizes ppl (outside of an overload) on panel first or STFU. Stop being a hypocrite.

11) Do I NEED to keep explaining that the sun amps Superman??? This is not evidence of his heat resistance at all. I know that Supes has elite resistance to heat. But you using him living in the sun THAT AMPS him as evidence of heat resistance is really further indicative of your poor grasp of logical reasoning.

12) Do I NEED to keep mentioning that I KNOW that SBP's speed will be a great factor and that it has NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT I'M DEBATING HERE??? Again, you = poor grasp of logical reasoning.

13) The only thing you "obliterated" was your perception of reality.

14) Again, stop lying or at least read what I wrote. You trying to discount via my evidence via poor reasoning/logic =/= to me not presenting facts.

15) Low showings? You mean the hosts (who are very much mortal) getting bloodied BUT NOT EVER BEING PUT DOWN AT ALL OUTSIDE OF A PLOT DEVICE is a low showing? Their trans+ implied power was written all throughout AvX. Did you read it at all?

16) Destroying a team with several low heralds as well as a high herald is enough evidence of them being trans+. There is no questioning this.

17) You really haven't presented much evidence at all... Where do you keep getting this idea of you having this overwhelming evidence presentation w/in this debate? If you believe this, your grasp of reality might be in question.



Ok, it's not in question now. You're genuinely bonkers.

18) The only joke here is you. Not a very funny joke. But a big fat smelly (and slightly deranged) one nonetheless.

What's funny is that with no rebuttal to my evidence of your dishonesty, you've basically admitted that you're a liar.

I guess you don't deny your dishonesty, should I call you red fibber from now on?

once again too long for quote so here we go with my response.

oh come on thats lame, first you avoid all the points i made and asked you to prove because you aimply dont have anything to back up that crap of yours, then you bring up points which are easily countered by me and then you got nothing to say aside of childish remarks just like you are doing right now, you are simply continue this for the sake of continuing to fill up your inferiority complex meter which means no matter how wrong you are you wont back down just because it reminds you all your life when all you do is back down

you shake yout head infront of your PC because you feel pitty over an argument where you were asked to provide evidence and you didnt? i am sorry nothing here make sense at all, unless you feel pitty on yourself which in that case is logically enough i guess.

i dont care what your agenda is, even if you got some internet agenda which i feel sorry for you already but as i said, if you got a personal agenda make sure to follow that agenda correctly and in the right way, you dont try to shove your agenda up people throats even when you are wrong, if you got a problem with people backing up superman or superboy prime for that matter then debate properly and present valid points, dont just go trolling like an A$$ hole even when the characters you dont like are suppose to win this easily, because that only puts you to shame in the first place.

whats wrong with someone stating his guy wins because he is more powerful when this is the case? if i was arguing SBP beats lets say galactus then you could use that idiotic statement of yours however in this case my guy IS more powerful so whats the problem again?

what do i get out of this? debating and having fun with people who share same love to comics as i do, you can sit back and keep shaking your head until you end up in a mental asylum.

how am i spreading hate for my character when i just argue for my character and bring his feats and facts that supress the other group? just because i am making you mad and frustrated does not mean i make other people hate the character, if you cant prove your points thats your problem not my and not anybody elses, and just for the record i dont love SBP so much, i just love him when he was on the guardian amp as superman prime thats all, without it he was an emo child and not close to the bad assery he got with the guradian amp.

superman? are you nuts? how the hell did you come to superman? we are discussing SBP and those ARE his averege durability feats because the guy just survive everything, universal explosions, anti monitor armor, being attacked by all heroes combined, he basically took anything and everything thrown at him with a smile on his face, therefor those are not picking only high end feats but those ARE his averege feats.

how is it lowballing when thats his only feat? are you mentally challenged? if a character has 1 or 2 fighting feats which portray the character at lower levels, how can they be low showings if those are his only showings? you dont have logic at all, low showings is SBP losing to teen titans when not only did he previously beat them combined with the JLA but also he has 98% of his other feats shitting on that fight and therefor that fight is a low showing, the phoenix 5 had like 2 fights each and they were hard pressed vs simple heralds so how da phuck are those low showings? you are the one who is being biased here and trying to wank your favorite phoenix force and shove your baseless opinion in people throats, you are the one who is trolling here and being nothing more than a fanboy and a troll, go wank on some birds outside if thats your thing sheeesh.

speculations? wtf? we see gladiator punch colossus so hard colossus close his eyes and he has a painful face expression on him, then next pannel we see gladiator already fighting someone else, so basically the facts of the showing tells us gladiator took colossus down and went for someone else, you are the one who is pulling baseless speculations out of his ass claiming he probably ran away from colossus Lol thats so stupid, if he was trying to do so then colossus could just teleport himself in his face again and fight him, your speculations are so dumb they dont deserve to get posted.

was it mentioned or showed that colossus was fighting someone else after the punch? was it showed gladiator running away from him while he is weilding his fists at him? so why are you pulling things out of your ass? we see colossus being punched so hard he went down with his eyes closed then we see gladiator fight someone else = gladiator knocked colossus the phuck out for several moments.

there is more to it, not only that we dont see him in the next panel but we dont see him fighting gladiator next panel, you dont have to be genious or in your case you dont have to be with averege wit to understand that if we see character A punch character B and in the next panel we see character A fight someone else that means character B was taken out of the fight.

superboy prime was punched back and he was just fine and right in the next panel we see him unhurt while being attacked by someone else already, colossus we dont see in the next panel fighting gladiator he is no longer his opponent therefor gladiator took him down and out of the picture for a while.

MM attacked prime not 1 vs 1 but while prime was attacked by half of the entire DC roster, there are 2 different times when Prime owned martian manhunter while once again not 1 vs 1 but while being attacked by groups.

MM is >> gladiator, owning superman on many occasions, crushing astroids and yes a planet sized astroid with physical strength, see thats the problem anyone who read both DC and Marvel realise without a doubt MM > Gladiator, but you are nothing but a newby comming into comics world and thinks he can debate by reading the latest marvel comics.

MM being owned by prime has everything to do with it, you chose to compare his fight with prime to the fight of colossus vs gladiator stating that if i think gladiator beat colossus by that showing that means prime got defeated by MM in that showing, then i stated its different because first of all prime didnt fight only MM but also many other groups and second of all prime has 2 other wins over MM while colossus doesnt have anything else to contredict the fact he got beat by gladiator and therefor its valid.

stop wasting your time? who are you kidding? you reply to every post i make with scrows over scrows you have plenty of time and your time is shit, basically i am doing you a favor that i bring anything to your life that you can use your time on seeing how you are around here when ever i come.

see once again the lack of comics knowledge, thor right now is portrayed greatly weaker then usual, of course there is no plot or narration statement to it however there is the fact that thor right now is portrayed at weaker levels, he gets one shotted by guys at his level of power or even weaker, he got one shotted by the freakin zodiac, therefor if his durability recieved a downfall of course his punching power and his overall power is weaker as well.

as i said before namor has 2 feats 1 of them is taking thor hammer strike to the back of the head and the other one being litterally stomped on by rulk and thing so therefor you cannot go and choose what you like among those 2 and call it the standard while calling the other low showing because just like that i can call his taking that shot a PIS and his getting his shit pushed by rulk and thing the normal.

even you admit this is your speculation, was it showed namor wasnt using the phoenix force when fighting them, was it showed he tapped into it? the only thing we see is namor getting his shit pushed in and then he got mad and broke rulk arm, i stated that it can be considered PIS to show you how much of a double standard hypocrite you are and that your logic works both ways.

dude you are indeed mantally challenged, you wanted a proof that SBP vaporized someone on panel which means A you doubt he has the power to do it and then i presented you his heat vision showings which include him cutting superman and killing heralds with it, or B you assume its not in his character and he wont use it which is even dumber , so thats why i said show me batman taking a shit on panel to portray the fact a character does not have to do everything on panel because the healthy logic knows that you idiot.