Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

We can skip the part about Avengers obviously failing on the storytelling front.

What was so great about it as a pure action film? Am I missing something about the visual style or the scenes themselves because there was absolutely nothing distinctive about either.

The only positive I can really get out of it, aside from the high production values, is it had consistently funny and entertaining dialogue. That's pretty much it. No quality storytelling. No real style. Nothing that was really very visually interesting or new. Just an action film with periodically funny dialogue, high production values but nothing really new or innovative about it.

The last half hour was just plain awesome. Action sequence after action sequence after action sequence.

If you can't see that then...whatever.

Well I guess I can see the artistry or appeal to say, martial arts, boxing, swordfighting etc. scenes in a film. Especially with a sense of aesthetic style, or atmosphere and dramatic importance established by the story.

I just fail to see the artistry in big explosions and people with superpowers crashing into eachother or into these big flying aliens. There is no poetry in the motions of these scenes like there is in stuff like martial arts. There was no atmosphere or drama behind the action. No style whatsoever.

I just don't see why I should be impressed by seeing big things hit other big things that are sometimes different colors and sometimes superpowers or objects instead of people.

To me personally, not much separates this film from something like The expendables.

ok I read what you said above and I want to ask you what was so great about the action scenes in TDKR?

Originally posted by DarthTheDominat
Well I guess I can see the artistry or appeal to say, martial arts, boxing, swordfighting etc. scenes in a film. Especially with a sense of aesthetic style, or atmosphere and dramatic importance established by the story.

I just fail to see the artistry in big explosions and people with superpowers crashing into eachother or into these big flying aliens. There is no poetry in the motions of these scenes like there is in stuff like martial arts. There was no atmosphere or drama behind the action. No style whatsoever.

I just don't see why I should be impressed by seeing big things hit other big things that are sometimes different colors and sometimes superpowers or objects instead of people.

To me personally, not much separates this film from something like The expendables. Like you said personally to you.
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean others don't see something appealing to them from a story based point of view.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
ok I read what you said above and I want to ask you what was so great about the action scenes in TDKR?

TDKR wasn't a pure action film first off, it actually had storytelling, but even then it actually had some real tension and atmosphere behind some of the fights and action scenes we see. I would imagine there are mixed opinions regarding scenes such as where the football stadium starts collapsing as they start the game but it was at the least more interesting than pretty much anything we see in the Avengers, which is superheroes flying into buildings and big aliens.

Originally posted by DarthTheDominat
TDKR wasn't a pure action film first off, it actually had storytelling, but even then it actually had some real tension and atmosphere behind some of the fights and action scenes we see. I would imagine there are mixed opinions regarding scenes such as where the football stadium starts collapsing as they start the game but it was at the least more interesting than pretty much anything we see in the Avengers, which is superheroes flying into buildings and big aliens.

Ok so you don't like superheroes I get it....and no TDKR was more of a cop drma then a super hero movie imo. This kind of reminds me of what some people were saying that they didn't really feel a threat in the Avengers movie. My response was simple. TDKR was about a broken man. He was broken in spirit and in body. His city was about to be nuked and he needed to rise above himself to save them. You were suppose to feel like "omg batmans screwed". In The Avengers the threat was there but you knew that you had supers forming a team to fight that. I never felt like I was suppose to "fear" for the characters or the city because I knew The Avengers were going to form and that's what I felt the audience was suppose to be anticipating. Everyone has likes and dislikes but Imo both movies did what they were made to do and both were the top of there genre(though I felt TDKR was the least of the trilogy).

Anyways I asked about the action scenes in TDKR because iirc it was you that said TDKR had better action scenes. I could be wrong though.

Originally posted by DarthTheDominat
TDKR wasn't a pure action film first off, it actually had storytelling

wait... so in your definition of action film, as soon as there is a decent story, it isn't an action film?

Originally posted by Oliver North
wait... so in your definition of action film, as soon as there is a decent story, it isn't an action film?

It isn't a pure action film if there is an extensive amount of storytelling that you can also consider it a thwiller, mystery or drama etc.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Ok so you don't like superheroes I get it....and no TDKR was more of a cop drma then a super hero movie imo. This kind of reminds me of what some people were saying that they didn't really feel a threat in the Avengers movie. My response was simple. TDKR was about a broken man. He was broken in spirit and in body. His city was about to be nuked and he needed to rise above himself to save them. You were suppose to feel like "omg batmans screwed". In The Avengers the threat was there but you knew that you had supers forming a team to fight that. I never felt like I was suppose to "fear" for the characters or the city because I knew The Avengers were going to form and that's what I felt the audience was suppose to be anticipating. Everyone has likes and dislikes but Imo both movies did what they were made to do and both were the top of there genre(though I felt TDKR was the least of the trilogy).

Anyways I asked about the action scenes in TDKR because iirc it was you that said TDKR had better action scenes. I could be wrong though.

Hmm you could be right. I remember saying that I thought the first Bane-Batman fight was better than anything we see in the Avengers if that's what you were referring to.

Originally posted by DarthTheDominat
Hmm you could be right. I remember saying that I thought the first Bane-Batman fight was better than anything we see in the Avengers if that's what you were referring to.

Indeed thats what I was talking about. Imo The best part of the action scenes in TDKR was when bane broke batman. The actual fight was kind of just a standing punch, block, dodge, punch. Not much to it. I felt little to not impressed by any of the action in TDKR.

Though It would have been awesome if all of the steelers went with the feild! lol

Yeah that was what I was saying. It was good not because of the choreophraphy but the tension it created in the atmosphere.

Don't you think that could just as much apply to the Avengers? Perhaps not through tension, but through excitement etc.

Nope. TDKR used sound very effectively to create that tension, and really the idea of The Batman looking so powerless before this menacing figure made it a very powerful scene, as you don't really expect to see Batman lose, ever. Avengers didn't really go out of its way to do that, it just had the same boom and bang and flavour of all the rest of the action you see in the film, and I understand that lives and even the entire world is at stake and stuff but ultimately the film does not succeed dramatically in any way so why would you really care about that?

I disagree. I think that the film does succeed dramatically on many levels.

I gotta say I was entirely expecting batman to lose. He did....Then I was entirely expecting batman to die. The music did good but I found myself being board instead sitting on the edge of my seat in suspense.

was it just me or was this a load a crap. This movie sucked balls big time.

The Avengers succeeded because though it progressed slowly, once it got rolling it never slowed back down. There was always some piece of action, wit, or satire going on. It wasn't a pure action movie because I've yet to see a successful comic franchise that is all action. Even the Punisher comics are far more than just fights and gun play.

Originally posted by DarthTheDominat
We can skip the part about Avengers obviously failing on the storytelling front.


The only positive I can really get out of it, aside from the high production values, is it had consistently funny and entertaining dialogue. That's pretty much it. No quality storytelling. No real style. Nothing that was really very visually interesting or new. Just an action film with periodically funny dialogue, high production values but nothing really new or innovative about it.

I don't think The Avengers failed on the story telling, Joss Whedon is a brilliant writer quite capable of giving each character their worth & forming a plot that flows. If you're comparing Avengers to TDKR than there was clearly more plot holes in TDKR's story.

If you found the Avengers to have consistent funny & entertaining dialogue then that does point to good story telling. And yes I think the Avengers was innovative as well, giving equal balance, respect & screen time to a multitude of characters. Something that both the X-Men & Fantastic Four movies failed to do.

Originally posted by DarthTheDominat
Nope. TDKR used sound very effectively to create that tension, and really the idea of The Batman looking so powerless before this menacing figure made it a very powerful scene, as you don't really expect to see Batman lose, ever.

But it's a well known fact that Bane breaks Batman & yes, fans wanted & expected to see Batman lose, broken & defeated.
Sound was effectively used but I don't think it was tension the audience was feeling but more the anticipation of waiting to see how bad, how brutal their hero would fall.

Originally posted by DarthTheDominat
I understand that lives and even the entire world is at stake and stuff but ultimately the film does not succeed dramatically in any way so why would you really care about that?

Yeah the world was at stake but then again how many times have we seen that scenario? We already know the world will be saved by the end of the movie. I think Whedon knew the audience would take that fact for granted & so he solely focussed on what we really wanted to see & that was the forming of individual heroes in one group, The Avengers.