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Full health one on one or against all five.

Colossus gets to start fully armored and empowered by his juggernaught powers
Emma starts in diamond form

It's a battle for the fate of their own universes to the death.

Back in the day, with the pre AvX PF, it would be a stomp of horrendous proportions against Superman.

But now? I say he takes a majority against these clowns. Abhilegend's Xemnu/Red Hulk scan vs PF Emma/Red Hulk was completely embarrassing to the PF.

Originally posted by zopzop
Back in the day, with the pre AvX PF, it would be a stomp of horrendous proportions against Superman.

But now? I say he takes a majority against these clowns. Abhilegend's Xemnu/Red Hulk scan vs PF Emma/Red Hulk was completely embarrassing to the PF.


But then we see PF Namor snap his arm with no effort at all. The entire AVX fell off the moment Cable was taken down. If someone came up to me and said that the entire arc was written by an intern, I wouldn't be surprised. The inconsistencies in the arc is what makes it fail. Not to mention that I have seen an entire continuum of Phoenix Avatars, and none of them were written nearly as poor as what we have witnessed from these 5 PF users. Someone really needs to be fired over this mess.

What's the inconsistency though...I'm not seeing any low showing and I would give this to any two of the five.

how long does supes sun dip?

Originally posted by Stoic
But then we see PF Namor snap his arm with no effort at all. The entire AVX fell off the moment Cable was taken down. If someone came up to me and said that the entire arc was written by an intern, I wouldn't be surprised. The inconsistencies in the arc is what makes it fail. Not to mention that I have seen an entire continuum of Phoenix Avatars, and none of them were written nearly as poor as what we have witnessed from these 5 PF users. Someone really needs to be fired over this mess.
Yup. They billed this turd as some major event (in terms of scale and consequence) and look how it turned out.

All this drama and all it took was Mr. Sinister to end the P5! I'm still LOLing at that idiot Nova Corp member that said this thing, ie the PF, was more powerful than Galactus.

He can beat one or two, but all five is a bit of a stretch, unless he uses his speed to it's utmost.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
He can beat one or two, but all five is a bit of a stretch, unless he uses his speed to it's utmost.

But well written just one would turn him the hell out. An avatar of the Phoenix has tremendous TP, TK, Strength, Speed, and can not die. No way Superman beats even one well written Avatar. The nerf came directly after the idiot who wrote this mess realized that all of the Heroes on Earth combined would have no chance of defeating them if they decided to go all out. Superman sun dipped or otherwise has no business fighting abstract level characters and winning. Even 1/5th would be above some High Herald strong man.

Without much effort a Phoenix Avatar could, and should be able to devour a star.

I definitely didn't see anything that made me think each member of the Phoenix 5 was anything more than a Trans level being (though admittedly I stopped reading the series, as I think most of us can agree it is absolutely HORRIBLE).

And Sundipped Superman would easily fall into the trans category as well. The only reason I can see him beating more than one (maybe 2 tops) is because it seems like they had trouble with speed reaction, and this Superman is insanely fast.

Also, regular Superman's TP resistance feats are pretty insane, so I feel that wouldn't be a huge issue for him, especially since he should take the fight to them before they can TP him.

Again, I want to clarify though, I don't see him winning against all 5 by a long shot.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I definitely didn't see anything that made me think each member of the Phoenix 5 was anything more than a Trans level being (though admittedly I stopped reading the series, as I think most of us can agree it is absolutely HORRIBLE).

And Sundipped Superman would easily fall into the trans category as well. The only reason I can see him beating more than one (maybe 2 tops) is because it seems like they had trouble with speed reaction, and this Superman is insanely fast.

Also, regular Superman's TP resistance feats are pretty insane, so I feel that wouldn't be a huge issue for him, especially since he should take the fight to them before they can TP him.

Again, I want to clarify though, I don't see him winning against all 5 by a long shot.


Which was due to incompetent writing, and the lack of knowledge of exactly how to approach such an immense power. Like I said, even 1/5th of the Phoenix Force would be above Superman. Cosmic awareness has always been a match for pure speed. He would not be able to put even one of these guys down. They transcend the physical, and although not written up the way that they should have been, 1/5th of the PF would and should easily walk among low level abstracts, while the full PF is high Abstract in terms of power grade. Superman would be devoured like a Crispy Cream.

I can't see how each P5 member could be considered a low level abstract.

Originally posted by keiththegreat
I can't see how each P5 member could be considered a low level abstract.

Well from the way that they have been written how in the world could anyone. It almost makes me forget about the time when Rachel had Galactus against the ropes. In order to gauge them properly for what they should have been in terms of power, one would need to go back and judge Dark Phoenix, Rachel, and the many other appearances of the entity that gave only a portion of the full Phoenix Force. The entire AvX event should be considered a low showing for the entity. The idea that the Heroes in space weren't devoured in an instant by the Bird was completely plot related, and should in no way be brought into a forum discussion, because it would ignore all of its previous feats. Can you say bullshyt writing 5 times?

I wonder how many comic book readers have said "AvX was the last straw for Marvel for me". It was so bad I couldn't even keep reading it, and you're talking to someone who finished Siege. DCnU is blowing Marvel away.

But, Stoic, onto what you're saying about Phoenix being nerfed, hasn't that been the trend in Marvel now? Celestials' power levels have dipped BIG TIME IMO. I think skyfathers have lost a lot of their power levels as well.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Celestials' power levels have dipped BIG TIME IMO. I think skyfathers have lost a lot of their power levels as well. Why's that?

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Why's that?

When they first came out they seemed like the be all end all of the MU. Now they each seem to be a little lower than Galactus on the totem pole, and their being shown up all the time. The Thanos imperative stuff. The Mr. Sinister stuff, Sue blasting one of the arms off with what appeared to be little effort (admittedly a different universe's celestial. Just stuff like that.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
When they first came out they seemed like the be all end all of the MU. Now they each seem to be a little lower than Galactus on the totem pole, and their being shown up all the time. The Thanos imperative stuff. The Mr. Sinister stuff, Sue blasting one of the arms off with what appeared to be little effort (admittedly a different universe's celestial. Just stuff like that. And Galactus is now written where he should be, no shame in that.

Thanos Imperative didn't really have low feats... If anything they were seen as God's there to everyone else.

Tiamut didn't do anything to defend himself, while still dumb, it ended up with Mr Sinister absolutely mollywhopping the Phoenix 5 with some of his power... that was also waning. While I suspect they'll win in the end, the initial attack turned out awful for them.

Sue has the hyperspace weakness going for her.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And Galactus is now written where he should be, no shame in that.

Thanos Imperative didn't really have low feats... If anything they were seen as God's there to everyone else.

Tiamut didn't do anything to defend himself, while still dumb, it ended up with Mr Sinister absolutely mollywhopping the Phoenix 5 with some of his power... that was also waning. While I suspect they'll win in the end, the initial attack turned out awful for them.

Sue has the hyperspace weakness going for her.

Yeah, I know all that. It just seems to be a general disrespect going for them is all I'm saying. If they had the power levels they were originally presented as having, I can't see any of that happening.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Yeah, I know all that. It just seems to be a general disrespect going for them is all I'm saying. If they had the power levels they were originally presented as having, I can't see any of that happening.
+1

They were sodoamized by the Nerf bat (the Celestials and the PF).

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Yeah, I know all that. It just seems to be a general disrespect going for them is all I'm saying. If they had the power levels they were originally presented as having, I can't see any of that happening. Thanos Imperative - Millions of Celestials fighting Super Ego

Mr Sinister doing what he did to Tiamut - Ghaur doing that to Tiamut

Sue blowing through just an arm - Well, no worse than her actually destroying the most powerful Celestial.

They still wiped out the Multiverses most powerful minds. Tanked a couple UN's, and it took Adult Frank a kamikaze attack to take out Eson, some power beating the Phoenix 5 easily, etc, so there's that.

Originally posted by zopzop
Back in the day, with the pre AvX PF, it would be a stomp of horrendous proportions against Superman.

But now? I say he takes a majority against these clowns. Abhilegend's Xemnu/Red Hulk scan vs PF Emma/Red Hulk was completely embarrassing to the PF.

What makes you think Emma even tried? Good semi-resistance feat from Rulk but couldn't you tell they only toyed with him? If she wanted to she could've pwned him even easier than she did Thor. At that level, why does she need grandeur displays of TP anyway?? Red Hulk did'nt do jack shit but get his arm snapped like a toothpick and wtf pwned by a optic beam.

Originally posted by Sundipped
What makes you think Emma even tried? Good semi-resistance feat from Rulk but couldn't you tell they only toyed with him? If she wanted to she could've pwned him even easier than she did Thor. At that level, why does she need grandeur displays of TP anyway?? Red Hulk did'nt do jack shit but get his arm snapped like a toothpick and wtf pwned by a optic beam.
I thought it was pretty obvious from the issue that she was attempting and FAILING to do anything TP wise vs Rulk. Xemnu made a fool of him.

So far these clowns and this entire event has been a clusterphuck. The PF will NEVER recover from this garbage (unless in the final issue it's all shown to be a dream or something of Cyclops or Hope). It's over, stick a fork in it.

Originally posted by zopzop
I thought it was pretty obvious from the issue that she was attempting and FAILING to do anything TP wise vs Rulk. Xemnu made a fool of him.

So far these clowns and this entire event has been a clusterphuck. The PF will NEVER recover from this garbage (unless in the final issue it's all shown to be a dream or something of Cyclops or Hope). It's over, stick a fork in it.

You can cry about the event all you want but nothing is shown (powerwise) that the PF is anything less than what it is supposed to represent. So stop lowballing.

^ There are a couple of hardcore Phoenix followers that would give you a full 101 course of the Phoenix, and it's appearances, and you would realize that even 1/5th of the entity would be beastly, and far beyond the capabilities of a trans level being.

Xenmu is a beast. Namor snapped Rulk's arm like a twig.

It's obvious that it's the medium's intent that creates the Phoenix empowered being's creation/intent.

I'm wondering what peoples opinion of All Star Superman is, and if they believe that he was written properly? Taking his sun dip into account and judging by the first 5 books of the series.

Just something to think about with regards to the TP comparisons..

Xenmu is actually a powerful telepath but beyond that, he had Red Hulk punch himself out, whereas Emma tried to force Ross to kill himself in his human form. The Hulk characters have a unique ability/curse in which they can't commit suicide by way of some sort of "built-in" self-preservation mechanism. Apparently at that point it was > Emma's ability to override and it caused her feedback.

IMO it was a loophole the writers used to stop Rulks invasion of Utopia basically ending in one page, but she likely could affect him with her TP if she tried the same tactic as Xenmu.

Originally posted by Sundipped
You can cry about the event all you want but nothing is shown (powerwise) that the PF is anything less than what it is supposed to represent. So stop lowballing. Originally posted by Stoic
^ There are a couple of hardcore Phoenix followers that would give you a full 101 course of the Phoenix, and it's appearances, and you would realize that even 1/5th of the entity would be beastly, and far beyond the capabilities of a trans level being.
@Sundipped
Originally posted by id369
Excalibur volume 1, issue #50
Rachael vs Necrom. Battle wise, good showings.
Asteroids, and moons are thrown at each other. Planetes are one shotted, and ignited to form a sun. Devastation to an entire Solar System.
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/2465/050p22ya5.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/9704/050p23ww5.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1142/050p24hy7.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6325/050p25rw7.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2493/050p26eh6.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2250/050p27tn6.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9195/050p28zo7.jpg
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8331/050p29gp6.jpg
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/5117/050p30ux5.jpg
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4034/050p31mk6.jpg
See that? That's not even 1/5th of anything. That's a SLIVER of what Rachel had access too (Necrom couldn't even use it unless Rachel was using her powers) and yet : he hurled the MOLTEN CORE of a planet at her, he hurled moons at her, he ignited a gas giant into a star, he destroyed an entire solar system.

With 1/5 of the FULL Force, assuming Classic levels, this event wouldn't have lasted one panel. Face it, the PF has been Nerfed, badly.

This doesn't even include the scan of Mastermind tapping into Rachel's portion of the PF and achieving UNIVERSE level cosmic awareness. Yet now the P5 can't even find the Avengers on Earth. Sick, stupid, and sad that's what the PF is now.

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm wondering what peoples opinion of All Star Superman is, and if they believe that he was written properly? Taking his sun dip into account and judging by the first 5 books of the series.

It's written properly because it's a different Superman, so he technically wouldn't react to a sun dip the same way the main continuity Superman did. Remember Superman stayed in the sun thousands of years and became virtually omnipotent. Also PC Superman was different in regards to that as well. So clearly All Star Superman works a different way, which is fine. I own them, and I've read them, but I'm not a huge fan (I guess I'm in the minority there as it was really popular).

Originally posted by zopzop
@Sundipped

See that? That's not even 1/5th of anything. That's a SLIVER of what Rachel had access too (Necrom couldn't even use it unless Rachel was using her powers) and yet : he hurled the MOLTEN CORE of a planet at her, he hurled moons at her, he ignited a gas giant into a star, he destroyed an entire solar system.

With 1/5 of the FULL Force, assuming Classic levels, this event wouldn't have lasted one panel. Face it, the PF has been Nerfed, badly.

This doesn't even include the scan of Mastermind tapping into Rachel's portion of the PF and achieving UNIVERSE level cosmic awareness. Yet now the P5 can't even find the Avengers on Earth. Sick, stupid, and sad that's what the PF is now.


I remember that book. Real bad ass stuff being tossed around, and like you said, Rachel only possessed a sliver of the PF. 1/5th would be just too much if they were really basing the P5 off of past canon. If Starlin or a similar talent wrote this arc, the entire universe would have been called in to assist the Earth, and we would see guys like the Watcher chronicling events consistently, and Galactus being overcome by a superior power, perhaps even the Celestials would jump into action, and get frig fragged. They could have gone so many ways with this but what do we get? Sinister. Rich.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
It's written properly because it's a different Superman, so he technically wouldn't react to a sun dip the same way the main continuity Superman did. Remember Superman stayed in the sun thousands of years and became virtually omnipotent. Also PC Superman was different in regards to that as well. So clearly All Star Superman works a different way, which is fine. I own them, and I've read them, but I'm not a huge fan (I guess I'm in the minority there as it was really popular).

Really? All Star was one of my all time favorite arcs, and I've read many. It's also in the top ten best written comics stories of all time as you mentioned. I thought of it as pure win. I even liked the movie.

Originally posted by zopzop
@Sundipped

See that? That's not even 1/5th of anything. That's a SLIVER of what Rachel had access too (Necrom couldn't even use it unless Rachel was using her powers) and yet : he hurled the MOLTEN CORE of a planet at her, he hurled moons at her, he ignited a gas giant into a star, he destroyed an entire solar system.

With 1/5 of the FULL Force, assuming Classic levels, this event wouldn't have lasted one panel. Face it, the PF has been Nerfed, badly.

This doesn't even include the scan of Mastermind tapping into Rachel's portion of the PF and achieving UNIVERSE level cosmic awareness. Yet now the P5 can't even find the Avengers on Earth. Sick, stupid, and sad that's what the PF is now.

And a silver is = to how much?
Could be more than 1/5, could be less.

Kinda hard for the P5 to end it in one panel being that it's a 12 issue event don't cha think?

Would've thought you'd be aware that this is not the cosmic busting event that you hoped for. Nonetheless, their full potential is lacking ...but the lack thereof does not = anything embarrassing as far as showings. Far from it.

Originally posted by Sundipped
And a silver is = to how much?
Could be more than 1/5, could be less.

Kinda hard for the P5 to end it in one panel being that it's a 12 issue event don't cha think?

Would've thought you'd be aware that this is not the cosmic busting event that you hoped for. Nonetheless, their full potential is lacking ...but the lack thereof does not = anything embarrassing as far as showings. Far from it.
A sliver means just that, a sliver. He had a PORTION of what gimp Rachel had and he couldn't even access it unless she unleashed her powers, yet we all saw what shenanigans he was pulling with his tiny portion. Puts this group of clowns (the P5) to shame.

They could have done a lot with this event even if they wrote the PF to it's full potential by including beings like Franklin Richards, the Watcher, various heralds of Galactus, the Celestials, etc.. to lend a hand to give it some kind of "cosmic" scope. I'm not saying Infinity Series (Gauntlet, War, Crusade) level but not this crap either. So much FAIL.

^
You want to reference the Necrom fight but what you have to realize is that the only opposition in this arc for the PF is the Avengers. No need to ignight suns or throw moons like Rachael did but I'm not gonna sit here and say that it couldn't be done by any member if need be. Just that it's no need and wouldn't be conducive to plot in this particular case.

Originally posted by Sundipped
^
You want to reference the Necrom fight but what you have to realize is that the only opposition in this arc for the PF is the Avengers. No need to ignight suns or throw moons like Rachael did but I'm not gonna sit here and say that it couldn't be done by any member if need be. Just that it's no need and wouldn't be conducive to plot in this particular case.
Bro, the Avengers have access to the majority of the Infinity Gems (Prof. X is against Cyke so he'd kick his in too), yet they ain't using them because the P5 aren't even registering as any kind of "cosmic" threat, that's how watered down and nerfed the PF is in this arc.

Hell, Thing could call in a favor from his Omega Level nephew, Franklin, who is a MUTANT, and he could have thrown down against the P5 or something. But like I said, the P5 aren't worth Franklin's time.

AvX and the PF/P5 have been nothing but a let down.

There's a damn good chance Sundipped Superman takes them down.

Originally posted by Stoic
Really? All Star was one of my all time favorite arcs, and I've read many. It's also in the top ten best written comics stories of all time as you mentioned. I thought of it as pure win. I even liked the movie. The series really couldn't have been any better.

It will always be a classic.

Originally posted by zopzop
Bro, the Avengers have access to the majority of the Infinity Gems (Prof. X is against Cyke so he'd kick his in too), yet they ain't using them because the P5 aren't even registering as any kind of "cosmic" threat, that's how watered down and nerfed the PF is in this arc.

Hell, Thing could call in a favor from his Omega Level nephew, Franklin, who is a MUTANT, and he could have thrown down against the P5 or something. But like I said, the P5 aren't worth Franklin's time.

AvX and the PF/P5 have been nothing but a let down.

There's a damn good chance Sundipped Superman takes them down.

So basically you're discrediting the PF because the story is'nt written tailor made to suit your standards dispite the fact they haven't been challenged at all which is bullshit.

The writers obviously portray Wanda as the plot device here so screw the Gems. Sure would've helped though, the way they keep getting their asses handed to em.

Once again, no desirable external forces to play a outside role does not = weaksauce. Especially when nothing has been shown to effect them.

Like I said, I'm in the minority in not liking it.

Originally posted by Stoic
If someone came up to me and said that the entire arc was written by an intern, I wouldn't be surprised. The inconsistencies in the arc is what makes it fail.

Originally posted by Stoic
Which was due to incompetent writing, and the lack of knowledge of exactly how to approach such an immense power.

Bendis and Fraction are the two main writers of this fiasco . What else would you expect ?

Edit : Not to mention that Brevoort proudly proclaimed in an interview that this event was gonna piss off many , which is exactly what it has done .

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
And Galactus is now written where he should be, no shame in that.

Thanos Imperative didn't really have low feats... If anything they were seen as God's there to everyone else.

Tiamut didn't do anything to defend himself, while still dumb, it ended up with Mr Sinister absolutely mollywhopping the Phoenix 5 with some of his power... that was also waning. While I suspect they'll win in the end, the initial attack turned out awful for them.

Sue has the hyperspace weakness going for her.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Thanos Imperative - Millions of Celestials fighting Super Ego

Mr Sinister doing what he did to Tiamut - Ghaur doing that to Tiamut

Sue blowing through just an arm - Well, no worse than her actually destroying the most powerful Celestial.

They still wiped out the Multiverses most powerful minds. Tanked a couple UN's, and it took Adult Frank a kamikaze attack to take out Eson, some power beating the Phoenix 5 easily, etc, so there's that.
This .
One can argue whether or not the PF has been nerfed greatly all they want , but trying to argue the same for Celestials(when they have been pretty much consistent power-wise) , based on a few (context-ridden) low showings here and there , is redundant .

Originally posted by Stoic
But well written just one would turn him the hell out. An avatar of the Phoenix has tremendous TP, TK, Strength, Speed, and can not die. No way Superman beats even one well written Avatar. The nerf came directly after the idiot who wrote this mess realized that all of the Heroes on Earth combined would have no chance of defeating them if they decided to go all out. Superman sun dipped or otherwise has no business fighting abstract level characters and winning. Even 1/5th would be above some High Herald strong man.

Without much effort a Phoenix Avatar could, and should be able to devour a star.

someone slap this guy for being that dumb

i mean it

As much as I hate it, Piotr has a "Bob Ross moment" and falls quickly.

Cyclops falls because he's acts like a teenage girl and should fall.

Emma should be the one to win.

IF the P5 win it's because of Emma and even if they do, Supes takes out minimum 3 of them.

Originally posted by zopzop
Yup. They billed this turd as some major event (in terms of scale and consequence) and look how it turned out.

All this drama and all it took was Mr. Sinister to end the P5! I'm still LOLing at that idiot Nova Corp member that said this thing, ie the PF, was more powerful than Galactus.

Wow. Whats happened to you?

I can basically say the same thing i said in the SPB vs Phoenix 5 thread.

The Force isnt the same as an artifact like the IG that you can just use the power at any desired extent with just a thought. It is a sentient entity with its own objectives. This can determine the outcome of battles. (See AOA Jeans battle with Archangel in Uncanny X-force which saw the Force turn on Jean because Archangels agenda matched the Phoenixes)

It is the embodiment of chaos, passion, destruction and rebirth. Hosts have to be strong of mind and rein in the power and not get too caught up or risk losing control and doing far more than just winning a battle but instead consuming a star system. It is not as simple as looking at the outcome of a battle to determine a hierarchy of power.

Context. Context. Context.

The hosts are trying to present themselves as heroes.

They have to have a tight rein on their power or risk losing control due to the destructive and passionate urges of the Phoenix entity, so a battle with an opponent comes with a simultaneous internal struggle

The Phoenixes agenda and a hosts internal struggle and prioritization of being heroes over unleashing their power and risking what they fight for provide clear explanations for their showings.

However at the same time we have seen on panel that the hosts have high levels of durability, healing/reforming abilities and are extremely powerful.

In a forum battle where the characters dont have to consider the consequences of their actions and can let loose a character like Superman would not stand a chance against a single one of them.

GS, never leave me.

Originally posted by Mindset
GS, never leave me.

inlove

All we learned from this event is that Tiamut would slap the force right in the penis

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
All we learned from this event is that Tiamut would slap the force right in the penis

Dont see how a logical or knowledgeable comic reader can come to that conclusion.

The points ive made are well documented, hosts have a wide spectrum of showings and its down to the nature of the power they wield.

To ignore that and to just look at battle showings/outcomes would be a superficial, incomplete analysis of the comics.

Basically a waste of time to read

Ignore battles, got it.

Tiamut still wins.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Ignore battles, got it.

Tiamut still wins.

Enjoy your day

Enjoy Tiamut being a beast

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Enjoy Tiamut being a beast

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Wow. Whats happened to you?
Marvel happened to me. The cxxksuckers they call "writers" happened to me. They took an (at least) universal force/abstract and reduced it to a Trans level threat. Did you see Breevort's (or whatever his name is) posts on Mindspring detailing how he views the Force power wise in relation to beings like Odin?

Originally posted by zopzop
Marvel happened to me. The cxxksuckers they call "writers" happened to me. They took an (at least) universal force/abstract and reduced it to a Trans level threat. Did you see Breevort's (or whatever his name is) posts on Mindspring detailing how he views the Force power wise in relation to beings like Odin?

I didnt, but until they change the nature and significance of the Force on panel through retcon and give it showings which cant be explained away by what we've been shown/told in continuity, nothings changed. I havent seen anything on panel that demotes the Force

The Force isnt an evil being looking to destroy creation, it is a force of creation with a role to play so its going to have different showings to something like the IG or a Cosmic Cube or any other power wielded by a ruthless villain.

Also its nature as the Big Bang of Marvel was reiterated by Stark in AvX4 and it is looking likely that it was the power behind House of M as a connection has been mentioned several times.

Lets wait it out and see. I have faith

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
All we learned from this event is that Tiamut would slap the force right in the penis

Against the PF as a whole then it would be another hand blown off.

Originally posted by zopzop
Marvel happened to me. The cxxksuckers they call "writers" happened to me. They took an (at least) universal force/abstract and reduced it to a Trans level threat. Did you see Breevort's (or whatever his name is) posts on Mindspring detailing how he views the Force power wise in relation to beings like Odin?
Do you still take Brevoort's opinion , regarding this matter , seriously ?

Edit : The replies were made on Formspring , not Mindspring(not even sure whether that exists) .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Do you still take Brevoort's opinion , regarding this matter , seriously ?

Edit : The replies were made on Formspring , not Mindspring(not even sure whether that exists) .
Brevoort's the Editor in Chief at Marvel, his opinion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anyone else. So we have that idiot overseeing this entire crossover, is it any wonder it's one big clusterfxxk?

Originally posted by zopzop
Brevoort's the Editor in Chief at Marvel, his opinion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anyone else. So we have that idiot overseeing this entire crossover, is it any wonder it's one big clusterfxxk?
Brevoort also stated that nothing is transitive at such power-levels , and that anyone can beat anyone , when confronted with the Galactus-Phoenix interactions . Or did you forget the quotes that I posted a long time back in that Odin VS Phoenix thread ?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Brevoort also stated that nothing is transitive at such power-levels , and that anyone can beat anyone , when confronted with the Galactus-Phoenix interactions . Or did you forget the quotes that I posted a long time back in that Odin VS Phoenix thread ?
Uhm, that proves my point. That idiot believes a skyfather is on the same level as universal abstracts like the Phoenix Force or Galactus.

He also all but stated that Odin could have ended this whole fiasco (AvX) and dealt with the PF but he said where would the fun be in that.

Originally posted by zopzop
Uhm, that proves my point. That idiot believes a skyfather is on the same level as universal abstracts like the Phoenix Force or Galactus.

He also all but stated that Odin could have ended this whole fiasco (AvX) and dealt with the PF but he said where would the fun be in that.
Again how does it matter what "that idiot" believes ? He's not writing these stories , and he's trolled other posters who came to him butthurt from the Sentry's defeat in Siege .

That's neither the first nor the last time he's done such a thing .

He likes to troll posters who try to turn his Formspring account into a battle board . This should be proof enough of that :
http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort/q/836269400

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Again how does it matter what "that idiot" believes ? He's not writing these stories , and he's trolled other posters who came to him butthurt from the Sentry's defeat in Siege .

That's neither the first nor the last time he's done such a thing .

He likes to troll posters who try to turn his Formspring account into a battle board . This should be proof enough of that :
http://www.formspring.me/TomBrevoort/q/836269400
And?

Why do you assume he's "trolling"? Maybe he really is that stupid. It matters a whole lot because he's supposedly Marvel's Editor in Chief.

Because of the stuff he's said which contradicts previous claims.

His opinion, which is fueled by trolling people who get butthurt over displays of power or fights in comics, doesn't mean much in terms of what actually gets published.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Because of the stuff he's said which contradicts previous claims.

His opinion, which is fueled by trolling people who get butthurt over displays of power or fights in comics, doesn't mean much in terms of what actually gets published.
Riiiiiiiiiiight........

A simple reading of this sh|tfest known as AvX proves he's not trolling.

Originally posted by zopzop
Brevoort's the Editor in Chief at Marvel, his opinion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>anyone else. So we have that idiot overseeing this entire crossover, is it any wonder it's one big clusterfxxk?

Actually no, he's not the Editor In Chief; that's Quesada.

Either way, we still go by on-panel averages. Editors come and go.

Originally posted by zopzop
Riiiiiiiiiiight........

A simple reading of this sh|tfest known as AvX proves he's not trolling.

Breevort has been called a "Thor fanboy". If his opinion and stance on characters mattered in terms of what gets published, Thor would certainly look a lot better than he has recently.

The writers in Marvel have a lot of freedom (too much imo), more so than they do in DC. Breevort's opinion and how absurd it is - which is clearly to antagonize some of the sensitive people who literally write in to complain that so and so didn't look as good as they should have - has next to no significant impact on the books written.

AvX is the result of what happens when people like Bendis, Fraction, Hickman, Aaron, and others have to collab on a summer event crossover as well as reconcile the various tie-in issues for the ongoings. Aka shitfest.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Actually no, he's not the Editor In Chief; that's Quesada.

Hasn't Quesada been promoted to Chief Creative Officer ? Or are they the same positions ? Just asking ?

Originally posted by zopzop
Why do you assume he's "trolling"?
Because of his response .

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Because of the stuff he's said which contradicts previous claims.

His opinion, which is fueled by trolling people who get butthurt over displays of power or fights in comics, doesn't mean much in terms of what actually gets published.