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Fight picks up from where Ghost Rider turned and left. Instead he decides to fight it out. Who wins?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/16508/653650-gr_hulk_super.jpg

If he unleashed Zarathos and found Hulk guilty instead of innocent, Blaze would have won.

Pandora's Box.

Vengeance didn't assault Hulk for he was not guilty.
Therefore if Vengeance attacked Hulk, forms of offense like the Penance Stare may well of had no effect.
Leaving the fight purely physical. I see huge collateral damage. And the fight ending before lives could be lost on behalf of GR.

Vengeance simply doesn't work that way.

Stalemate due to willful BFR.


If WWH killed Tony, Strange or Xavier.
I say Zarathos wins.
But that didn't happen.

hulk was holding back a stronger god

come at me

Originally posted by psycho gundam
hulk was holding back a stronger god

come at me

The sad thing is, you're actually right. Hulk held back even when he got his torso ripped right through by a Zom amped Strange... What on earth can you do to Hulk physically, that he cannot instantly reform from?

Weaker versions have already come back from atomisation and from having all their flesh repelled right off...


I vote Hulk for Marvel Abstract!

GR

Originally posted by janus77


I vote Hulk for Marvel Abstract!

Can't even tell if you're kidding sadly

Originally posted by Damborgson
Can't even tell if you're kidding sadly

















Hulk is the manifestation of the abstract concept of all conquering strength!

And GR has the power to render beings mentally wasted.

Hulk is a mental creature brought out into the flesh. Hence his different personas.

GR recently sent Deadpool into a state of witnessing his childhood.
If anything like that happened to Hulk fights over.

Originally posted by the ninjak
And GR has the power to render beings mentally wasted.

Hulk is a mental creature brought out into the flesh. Hence his different personas.

GR recently sent Deadpool into a state of witnessing his childhood.
If anything like that happened to Hulk fights over.
If that actually happened, it would be worse for GR imo.
Guilt Hulk, Devil Hulk ... the many repressed aspects would manifest (just like Banner is currently doing in Incredible Hulk) ...

Ok then show scans of Hulk personas being capable of defeating Zarthos in a mental beatdown?

GR would have wrecked him

Originally posted by the ninjak
Ok then show scans of Hulk personas being capable of defeating Zarthos in a mental beatdown?
That makes sense...

You said GR would render Hulk mentally wasted, I pointed out that there are far more powerful mental aspects that he is keeping in-check (a combination of the other, sane Hulks are keeping them in check).

Those aspect would emerge - IMO - because, Banner and Hulk both manifest even when they don't have corporeal bodies (or at least should not have bodies - given Banner was nuked)...

I didn't say they would beat some god, I said that it would be worse for GR, again IMO.

no...GR would rage stomp him...no way it would be worse for GR

Originally posted by janus77
That makes sense...

You said GR would render Hulk mentally wasted, I pointed out that there are far more powerful mental aspects that he is keeping in-check (a combination of the other, sane Hulks are keeping them in check).

Those aspect would emerge - IMO - because, Banner and Hulk both manifest even when they don't have corporeal bodies (or at least should not have bodies - given Banner was nuked)...

I didn't say they would beat some god, I said that it would be worse for GR, again IMO.

But that's exactly what I'm saying. Penance Stare is all over the place but if it doesn't destroy someone it mentally wrecks them.

Psychologically beings would get wrecked in the process.

hulk rips him in half

GR Wins,


would be a cool fight till GR went mental/mystic.

Easy win for Blaze.

rf26gphwadk

Ghost Rider threads are like Iron Fist and Doom threads. A foregone conclusion.

Originally posted by Shabazz916
hulk rips him in half Which does nothing.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Easy win for Blaze.

rf26gphwadk

Ghost Rider threads are like Iron Fist and Doom threads. A foregone conclusion.

Blaze had a pretty badass theme in UMvC3, as it should have been.

The only other theme rivaling it in bad-assness was Akuma's.

I'm wondering how GR places him in the PS? Does he physically overpower the Hulk by grabbing him by the arms while the Hulk is rendered helpless by GR's unprecedented strength? Also where does the PS come into play here? The Hulk wouldn't have been guilty of anything. I guess this comes down to a brawl then.

He's guilty of enslaving a group of people just because he blames them for a series of crimes for which they are not guilty for. And then placing them into concentration camps. Along with other people who were just trying to protect them in the first place.

That's right, I equated WWH to Hitler.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He's guilty of enslaving a group of people just because he blames them for a series of crimes for which they are not guilty for. And then placing them into concentration camps. Along with other people who were just trying to protect them in the first place.

That's right, I equated WWH to Hitler.


So if that were the case, why didn't the Rider enact the PS right there and then? Let's not make it out like the Hulk sodomized several 3 year olds in front of their moms. In his mind he was justified. This becomes a brawl.

Originally posted by Stoic
So if that were the case, why didn't the Rider enact the PS right there and then? Let's not make it out like the Hulk sodomized several 3 year olds in front of their moms. In his mind he was justified. This becomes a brawl.

In Hitler's mind, he too was justified.

As to why he didn't? PIS.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
In Hitler's mind, he too was justified.

As to why he didn't? PIS.


Like I said, this becomes a brawl since the Rider could not see anything wrong with the Hulk's justifications. Hitler was different, he self justified his evil acts, becoming a reprobate to himself, and teaching others how to become ones themselves. With that being said, this becomes a brawl.

Originally posted by Stoic
Like I said, this becomes a brawl since the Rider could not see anything wrong with the Hulk's justifications. Hitler was different, he self justified his evil acts, becoming a reprobate to himself, and teaching others how to become ones themselves. With that being said, this becomes a brawl.

Lol it probably does degenerate into a brawl. I'm just interested in the parallels, I guess.


'Never stop making them pay'. Pay for what, Hulk?


He brought his entire Warbound to Earth. Plus all the Hive younglings, to wage war on the Illuminati, and anyone else who tried to help them. Sure, they all swore a pact to be Warbound and to fight each others battles - but it was misguided. Hulk could rationalise it and justify it as much as he wanted to in his mind, doesn't mean he was correct.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol it probably does degenerate into a brawl. I'm just interested in the parallels, I guess.


'Never stop making them pay'. Pay for what, Hulk?


He brought his entire Warbound to Earth. Plus all the Hive younglings, to wage war on the Illuminati, and anyone else who tried to help them. Sure, they all swore a pact to be Warbound and to fight each others battles - but it was misguided. Hulk could rationalise it and justify it as much as he wanted to in his mind, doesn't mean he was correct.


In the Hulk's mind he was cut first, after saving the world, and then told that all along a plan was spoken of, and a decision to exile him from the planet after his good deeds were going to happen, which began Planet Hulk. Then right after busting a nut in Caiera the device that sent him there, tears his new world down around his ankles. In his mind they tried to kill him, but failed and he went back for some pay back. Who was Hitler paying back? The Hulk was justified, Hitler self justified himself. Self justification is the first steps towards becoming a reprobate in my opinion.

The Hulk's stance was much different in it's approach and scope, or the minute after he beat the false Boltagon, he would have just landed on Earth and went world breaker on the entire planet, and killed everyone. This did not happen. He never killed a soul.

Do you believe that Ghost Rider would beat the Hulk in a brawl?

Originally posted by Stoic
In the Hulk's mind he was cut first, after saving the world, and then told that all along a plan was spoken of, and a decision to exile him from the planet after his good deeds were going to happen, which began Planet Hulk. Then right after busting a nut in Caiera the device that sent him there, tears his new world down around his ankles. In his mind they tried to kill him, but failed and he went back for some pay back. Who was Hitler paying back? The Hulk was justified, Hitler self justified himself. Self justification is the first steps towards becoming a reprobate in my opinion.
OK, am massively simplifying a complex issue here for the sake of my argument - but the Jews/Gypsies/homosexuals/mentally ill were blamed for pretty much all of Germany's ills. As far as the Nazis were concerned, they were tearing Germany down culturally and economically, and taking advantage of its weakened state after WWI. Hitler saw it as payback.



That's right, he wanted them to suffer loss, as he suffered loss. Si rather than a quick death, he wanted them to be tortured. Even though his loss WASN'T THEIR FAULT.


True, I prob should go back on topic. Yes, I think he can beat him in a brawl.

Originally posted by Stoic
In the Hulk's mind he was cut first, after saving the world, and then told that all along a plan was spoken of, and a decision to exile him from the planet after his good deeds were going to happen, which began Planet Hulk. Then right after busting a nut in Caiera the device that sent him there, tears his new world down around his ankles. In his mind they tried to kill him, but failed and he went back for some pay back. Who was Hitler paying back? The Hulk was justified, Hitler self justified himself. Self justification is the first steps towards becoming a reprobate in my opinion.

The Hulk's stance was much different in it's approach and scope, or the minute after he beat the false Boltagon, he would have just landed on Earth and went world breaker on the entire planet, and killed everyone. This did not happen. He never killed a soul.

Do you believe that Ghost Rider would beat the Hulk in a brawl?

Blaze controlled yea, The hulk would probably need a holy weapon to beat unleashed Ghostrider

Originally posted by Whiteclipse
Blaze controlled yea, The hulk would probably need a holy weapon to beat unleashed Ghostrider


So GR would overpower the Hulk? Is this what you are saying? The Hulk could just throw his bony ass into space, end of story. Has Ghost Rider ever been KO'd?

Originally posted by Stoic
So GR would overpower the Hulk? Is this what you are saying? The Hulk could just throw his bony ass into space, end of story. Has Ghost Rider ever been KO'd?

Lol yea he would make a cool looking rocket I suppose, if there were bfr involved. Blaze has been knocked out more than enough, most memorable (for me anyways) being when Venom overloaded his penance stare. Since Ghost Rider's power is divine, Id assume he can amp his strength levels equal to or beyond the hulks. I kinda think thats why they had Ghost Rider deciding Hulk was innocent, so the story arc wouldn't end with their battle.

Originally posted by Stoic
Let's not make it out like the Hulk sodomized several 3 year olds in front of their moms. In his mind he was justified. This becomes a brawl. He didn't?

You and I have clearly been reading different comics then

Wait! Is this Ghost Rider the Dan Ketch/Noble Kale one? In all honesty, I can provide info into what Penance Stare actually does.Here's what PS does.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/Blackheart/HeroesVsBH6.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/Blackheart/HeroesVsBH7.jpg

Although I don't really know what Hulk can do to GR or what GR can do to Hulk.Did Hulk killed anyone in the WWH story arc?I think that's the only way PS would affect Hulk.

I Cannot Choose...Hulk 6/10....No Ghost Rider 6/10.....AHHHHHHH!! Can't Make A Decision!!!

Originally posted by Igniz
Wait! Is this Ghost Rider the Dan Ketch/Noble Kale one? In all honesty, I can provide info into what Penance Stare actually does.Here's what PS does.

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/Blackheart/HeroesVsBH6.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/Blackheart/HeroesVsBH7.jpg

Although I don't really know what Hulk can do to GR or what GR can do to Hulk.Did Hulk killed anyone in the WWH story arc?I think that's the only way PS would affect Hulk.

It makes you relive your misdeeds, not necessarily murder. Which the Hulk is definitely guilty of (see my discussion with Stoic above).

Ghost Rider

even Dr Strange pretty much says Rider could whoop Hulk's arse.

Originally posted by Whiteclipse
Lol yea he would make a cool looking rocket I suppose, if there were bfr involved. Blaze has been knocked out more than enough, most memorable (for me anyways) being when Venom overloaded his penance stare. Since Ghost Rider's power is divine, Id assume he can amp his strength levels equal to or beyond the hulks. I kinda think thats why they had Ghost Rider deciding Hulk was innocent, so the story arc wouldn't end with their battle.
There's also the fact that Ghost rider didn't give a phuck about Hulk anyway, he never wanted to be there in the first place telling Blaze it wasn't important since he had a bigger mission.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Ghost Rider

even Dr Strange pretty much says Rider could whoop Hulk's arse.
He said "it's possible" and Hulk did power through the unleashed Ghost Riders hellfire explosion. A slugfest would suit Hulk down to the ground.

Unleashed GR would destroy him eventually.

Originally posted by Lek Kuen
There's also the fact that Ghost rider didn't give a phuck about Hulk anyway, he never wanted to be there in the first place telling Blaze it wasn't important since he had a bigger mission. i've said the same thing about his fight with juggernaut, too.

Originally posted by basilisk
Unleashed GR would destroy him eventually. At Best All We Can Do Now Is Speculate...

Are we still accepting that nonsense about Hulk never having killed anyone? That the times he smashed buildings into rubble, no one was inside? Or when he'd pick up a army tank and chuck it 25 miles into the horizon that the soldiers inside parachuted out or something? If not, wouldn't the PS work on him for murdering the innocent?

Originally posted by redhotrash
Are we still accepting that nonsense about Hulk never having killed anyone? That the times he smashed buildings into rubble, no one was inside? Or when he'd pick up a army tank and chuck it 25 miles into the horizon that the soldiers inside parachuted out or something? If not, wouldn't the PS work on him for murdering the innocent?


If it could have, and he was guilty of murder then it would have, and GR would have done so.

So you are standing by this then? That in over 30 years of mass destruction, losing control of himself, and trashing the armed forces, Hulk has never killed a innocent?

Originally posted by redhotrash
So you are standing by this then? That in over 30 years of mass destruction, losing control of himself, and trashing the armed forces, Hulk has never killed a innocent?


It's not really what I'm willing to stick by, but rather what has been written into canon. According to continuity the Hulk is not guilty of consciously murdering anyone that did not deserve to die. Trauma was killed, but he deserved it. If the Hulk was guilty of murder GR would have given him the stare. While we're on this subject, why hasn't GR gone after Thor, Iron Man, or any costumed super power that has toppled a building?

I thought the whole "no pis" thing applied to these boards. I suppose knocking a building over accidentally in a fight isnt murder. But picking up a tank and hurling it off into the horizon can't really be considered a "my bad" moment. Still its not something I'd argue over. I've been away from these forums for over a year and hoped maybe things would be a bit more enlightened when I got back. Unfortunately its still full of unreasonable Hulk and Wolverine wank.

Originally posted by redhotrash
I thought the whole "no pis" thing applied to these boards. I suppose knocking a building over accidentally in a fight isnt murder. But picking up a tank and hurling it off into the horizon can't really be considered a "my bad" moment. Still its not something I'd argue over. I've been away from these forums for over a year and hoped maybe things would be a bit more enlightened when I got back. Unfortunately its still full of unreasonable Hulk and Wolverine wank.


Hey I never said that I didn't agree with you, but going off of on panel evidence GR could not detect a murderous spirit within the Hulk, and so the PS would not work on those not guilty. What stops the Hulk from punting GR into space? So you might want to question whether or not the Hulk realized that he killed all of those unrecorded people in all of those tanks and buildings. You have to also question the Hulk's various mental incarnations, because from what i know of the character, he spent the majority of his appearances as a large green moron.

So the spirit of vengeance recognizes temporary insanity? To be fair I havent read a major story arc with the Hulk that I didn't consider complete nonsense since WWH.

I don't see how the Hulk would be found guilty of something that he had no recollection of doing, even if he did do it. Should you be judged because of the ants that you step on every summer day as you walk up the street? I guess so, even if you were unaware of stepping on them.

Some people are talking about unleashed Ghost Rider.Is this what they're talking about?

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/Blackheart/BHVsGR4.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/Blackheart/BHVsGR5.jpg

I will admit this version of Ghost Rider would beat Hulk.But there was circumstances involved there.The fact Blackheart was breaking the treaties between heaven and hell allowed Ghost Rider to unleashed his powers against Blackheart.

Originally posted by Igniz
Some people are talking about unleashed Ghost Rider.Is this what they're talking about?

http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/Blackheart/BHVsGR4.jpg
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/Blackheart/BHVsGR5.jpg

I will admit this version of Ghost Rider would beat Hulk.But there was circumstances involved there.The fact Blackheart was breaking the treaties between heaven and hell allowed Ghost Rider to unleashed his powers against Blackheart.


That really depends on how far the Hulk was willing to go. He was unleashing a hell of a lot of power in the Dark Dimension, and even though those scans of the Rider looked impressive, it had nothing on the destruction unleashed in that dimension. if the Hulk and Betty were any stronger, they could have high-fived each other, and planets would have exploded.

That's if you're willing to consider what an in air collision did.

Originally posted by Stoic
That really depends on how far the Hulk was willing to go. He was unleashing a hell of a lot of power in the Dark Dimension, and even though those scans of the Rider looked impressive, it had nothing on the destruction unleashed in that dimension. if the Hulk and Betty were any stronger, they could have high-fived each other, and planets would have exploded.

That's if you're willing to consider what an in air collision did.

That's why I asked first if this version of Ghost Rider is the Noble Kale one.Noble Kale was a treaty between Mephisto and the angel Uriel.And Ghost Rider unleashed this power against Blackheart.Blackheart upon this time was ruling his father Mephisto's domain of hell.So we can atleast say this version of Blackheart is equal to Mephisto in terms of power.And Mephisto>>>>>>WWH or HOTM Hulk.Mephisto retconned Spiderman's history by the way.So Mephisto wields crazy amount of power.So this means Blackheart king of hell(or Mephisto's domain) wields that power.So yes! Unleashed GR would beat WWH/HOTM Hulk.But this statement is moot since the GR used in this thread, isn't the unleashed one.And the fact, special circumstances were involved for Noble Kale to unleashed that power.

Originally posted by Stoic
I don't see how the Hulk would be found guilty of something that he had no recollection of doing, even if he did do it. Should you be judged because of the ants that you step on every summer day as you walk up the street? I guess so, even if you were unaware of stepping on them.
Hahaha so hulk killing an innocent should not be blamed because he had no recollection of doing it? The ant analogy works so well with drunk drivers, right?

Originally posted by Blight
Hahaha so hulk killing an innocent should not be blamed because he had no recollection of doing it? The ant analogy works so well with drunk drivers, right?

The drunk knew beforehand that they weren't supposed to drink, the same goes for those that text while driving. I don't see the correlation to be honest. The rules behind the Penance Stare could be directly linked to Christian beliefs that those without sin can not be accused by the enemy, which extends to not being held accountable for sins that one is unaware of.

A life is a life, even an ants life, and when you walk up the street crushing them to death without knowing, you simply can not be held responsible for it.

Also, as per forum rules, I thought we weren't allowed to use WBH feats?

So in this case, GR could go full mode, but Hulk can't, right?

I know, bad ruling, but hey, them's the breaks,

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, as per forum rules, I thought we weren't allowed to use WBH feats?

So in this case, GR could go full mode, but Hulk can't, right?

I know, bad ruling, but hey, them's the breaks,
When was that ruling made?

And if it's true that makes no sense at all.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
When was that ruling made?

And if it's true that makes no sense at all.

It's in the character ruling thread.

Originally posted by redhotrash
So you are standing by this then? That in over 30 years of mass destruction, losing control of himself, and trashing the armed forces, Hulk has never killed a innocent?
Considering how the Armed Forces were the ones who generally always started the skirmishes , I doubt they would be considered "innocents" by GR's standards .

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It's in the character ruling thread.
That doesn't really rule that he can't reach those levels though. Green Scar as he was called on Sakaar, is the same Hulk who waged war against the Illuminati and reached world breaking levels at the end of the WWH storyline.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
That doesn't really rule that he can't reach those levels though. Green Scar as he was called on Sakaar, is the same Hulk who waged war against the Illuminati and reached world breaking levels at the end of the WWH storyline.

Meh, I just read the last line:



And read it as we only use WWH's feats. Whereas GR isn't limited.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Meh, I just read the last line:



And read it as we only use WWH's feats. Whereas GR isn't limited.
The last panel seems a bit contradictory, if the OP actually specifies WWH feats only then that's one thing, but the "Green Scar" persona was used throughout the entirety of Pak's run not just Planet Hulk and WWH. "Green Scar", "Worldbreaker" etc are just titles, given to the same Hulk.

Yah, but Damborgson specified it was WWH - I mean, the thread title says, WWH, not Green Scar.....so....I'd only use WWH feats.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Considering how the Armed Forces were the ones who generally always started the skirmishes , I doubt they would be considered "innocents" by GR's standards .


Generally they are responding to Hulk who has been raging in a populated area. Just funny how Marvel will try to play the patriotic card here and there but still portray the military as the villains when the story needs it.

WWH....Green Scar...No Difference..

Originally posted by redhotrash
Generally they are responding to Hulk who has been raging in a populated area. Just funny how Marvel will try to play the patriotic card here and there but still portray the military as the villains when the story needs it.
Well , they are still the provokers in most instances . I don't see how GR will perceive them as "innocents" in any way , shape or form .