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Bracelets are OFF.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/7/79429/2537506-wonder_woman_12_panel_large.jpeg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/229/98936-39706-hercules_large.jpg

WW, and everyone she's faced, still lacks feats to contend with high heralds.

Yeah, she beat Artemis without the bracelets, but how the phuck are we supposed to know how powerful Artemis is?

Hercules is depowered, if you want him before he was depowered he was an elite skyfather and he could win this without even trying, if you meant classic herc then I'd say him winning is a safe bet

Wondy whooped on GL and Superman at the same damn time.........

WW...

And Herc is the type to enjoy the beating.

Yeah, they're making WW equal to Superman in the DCnU.

How is Diana equal to Superman in DCnU...?

By the interview with Azzarello. He stated that he sees no reason why Diana isn't as strong or as powerful as Supes. Geoff also commented that she's the most dangerous on the team. Superman hardly has any feats to suggest otherwise.

Originally posted by Golgo13
By the interview with Azzarello. He stated that he sees no reason why Diana isn't as strong or as powerful as Supes. Geoff also commented that she's the most dangerous on the team. Superman hardly has any feats to suggest otherwise.

Interviews by creative terms aren't the gospel. Otherwise Joe Casey saying that nothing short of Classic Beyonder could stop Superman would be something to not laugh hysterically at as ridiculous.

Geoff saying she's the most dangerous likewise is just his opinion, which I could somewhat see as being possibly accurate in the sense that she's a warrior born princess packing magical weapons and likely has the least amount of qualms when it comes to killing or maiming an enemy out of the rest of the League.

And yes, Superman does have plenty of feats in DCnU, enough to see that he's more powerful than she is.

Like what? Diana just laid into him and he couldn't do crap against it.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Like what? Diana just laid into him and he couldn't do crap against it.

Superman's feats in his ongoings as well as Justice League, for starters. Conversely, Diana's book, while very well written, has little in the form of actual feats.

He's been getting his ass kicked in his series. Helspont one-shotted him as well as a Predator looking creature with super speed. He also got kicked by WW as well.

He got one shotted again by another lady, can't think of her name and he was Flash koed with someone throwing cars at him. Diana is in his tier imo...looking at overall showings.

One suckershot and suddenly WW=Superman.facepalm

Originally posted by Golgo13
Like what? Diana just laid into him and he couldn't do crap against it.

Tbf to Superman, it's not like he was there to fight. He grabbed her blade, then she got a kick in. They're definitely in the same league, but as far as that moment determining any real superiority, no.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Like what? Diana just laid into him and he couldn't do crap against it.

Originally posted by Golgo13
He's been getting his ass kicked in his series. Helspont one-shotted him as well as a Predator looking creature with super speed. He also got kicked by WW as well.

Originally posted by carver9
He got one shotted again by another lady, can't think of her name and he was Flash koed with someone throwing cars at him. Diana is in his tier imo...looking at overall showings.

What. The. ****.

Yeah, superman is already shown to be more powerful against darkseid and here

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11367812_SM-07-19.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/11367815_SM-07-20.jpg

Originally posted by -Pr-
What. The. ****.

What? Didn't WW have a better showing against Darkseid than Superman? Superman has been beaten numerous times already and there is no real showings that put him ahead of WW.

Originally posted by Cogito
WW, and everyone she's faced, still lacks feats to contend with high heralds.

Yeah, she beat Artemis without the bracelets, but how the phuck are we supposed to know how powerful Artemis is?


Keep in mind what she was doing against Hal Jordan *with* bracers.

Originally posted by Golgo13
What? Didn't WW have a better showing against Darkseid than Superman? Superman has been beaten numerous times already and there is no real showings that put him ahead of WW.

No, she didn't. Yes there are.

I'm sure over time she'll be brought up to par, but based on feats right now? No, he's definitively superior.

*Restrained* WW seems like she's number 2 in the League.

Originally posted by Q99
Keep in mind what she was doing against Hal Jordan *with* bracers.
There is no reason to believe that her own title and JL are syncronized. All she did was to stalemate hal, her scenes were flashy but hal wasn't shown to be at any disadvantage.

When did Superman show he was more powerful then Darkseid? Sure wasnt in Justice League.

Superman was also shown to be equal or even behind OMAC as well. He's not the golden boy, anymore, and doesn't have impressive feats compared to Pre-Flashpoint Superman. I'm sure he will get there some day, but not now.

Hell, in last issue of Supergirl, Superman was surprised of how powerful Supergirl is, because she orbited the sun for a while, before she exited her ship. She might be even more formidable than Superman, because of versatility.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Superman was also shown to be equal or even behind OMAC as well. He's not the golden boy, anymore, and doesn't have impressive feats compared to Pre-Flashpoint Superman. I'm sure he will get there some day, but not now.

Hell, in last issue of Supergirl, Superman was surprised of how powerful Supergirl is, because she orbited the sun for a while, before she exited her ship. She might be even more formidable than Superman, because of versatility.
Stick to making useless threads. Supergirl was beaten like a ho against the imposter superman while superman easily beat him. He's even more golden boy like in DCnU when he's the first superhero and explicitly more powerful than anybody in league. As for feats he lifted an airliner from the bottom of ocean effortlessely. Compare that to azzarello's WW who just knocked down some trees in rage and that's it.Originally posted by -K-M-
When did Superman show he was more powerful then Darkseid? Sure wasnt in Justice League.
Not more powerful than darkseid. More powerful than other league members.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Stick to making useless threads. Supergirl was beaten like a ho against the imposter superman while superman easily beat him. He's even more golden boy like in DCnU when he's the first superhero and explicitly more powerful than anybody in league. As for feats he lifted an airliner from the bottom of ocean effortlessely. Compare that to azzarello's WW who just knocked down some trees in rage and that's it.
Not more powerful than darkseid. More powerful than other league members.

Maybe because she doesn't have the experience in using her powers as was pointed out last issue? Doesn't change the fact that Superman has been defeated numerous times.

Originally posted by -K-M-
When did Superman show he was more powerful then Darkseid? Sure wasnt in Justice League.

He didn't.

It was a comparison in how well he did vs how well Diana did.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Superman was also shown to be equal or even behind OMAC as well. He's not the golden boy, anymore, and doesn't have impressive feats compared to Pre-Flashpoint Superman. I'm sure he will get there some day, but not now.

Hell, in last issue of Supergirl, Superman was surprised of how powerful Supergirl is, because she orbited the sun for a while, before she exited her ship. She might be even more formidable than Superman, because of versatility.

Actually, Superman is more of a golden boy than he's been in the last half-decade.

I'm just talking DCnU. He doesn't seem unbeatable to me and his record shows it.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Maybe because she doesn't have the experience in using her powers as was pointed out last issue? Doesn't change the fact that Superman has been defeated numerous times.
He palmed her strikes and beat the phuck out of her, superman beat him easily. That imposter didn't have any experience too. Doesn't matter, jurgens likes to make superman a punching bag and totally ineffectual in combat. He was the one who wrote that lobo/superman fight. He still looks better than everyone against common foes and only that matters in comparison.

Originally posted by abhilegend
There is no reason to believe that her own title and JL are syncronized. All she did was to stalemate hal, her scenes were flashy but hal wasn't shown to be at any disadvantage.


Huh? Are you arguing they're separate continuities? Or just that they're in different time-frames, which shouldn't affect the difference between restrained vs unrestrained.


Restrained WW =~ Hal

Unrestrained > Restrained

Seems pretty clear to me

Originally posted by Golgo13
I'm just talking DCnU. He doesn't seem unbeatable to me and his record shows it.
Its jurgens. Wait for lobdell.

Originally posted by abhilegend
He palmed her strikes and beat the phuck out of her, superman beat him easily. That imposter didn't have any experience too. Doesn't matter, jurgens likes to make superman a punching bag and totally ineffectual in combat. He was the one who wrote that lobo/superman fight. He still looks better than everyone against common foes and only that matters in comparison.

Did he actually fight WW one on one yet? BTW, it was Keith/Dan who did the OMAC story.

Originally posted by Q99
Huh? Are you arguing they're separate continuities? Or just that they're in different time-frames, which shouldn't affect the difference between restrained vs unrestrained.


Restrained WW =~ Hal

Unrestrained > Restrained

Seems pretty clear to me
Azzarello and johns write two different WW. They might as well be in different continuties. Azzarelo WW=/=Johns' WW and unless it's shown by johns, its just foolish to think that diana would be portrayed any higher than she is now. One thing for sure is that she wouldn't be shown as more powerful than superman.

What did Superman do to Darky that was more impressive than WW? I remember WW restraining Darkseid with lasso and stabbed him in the eye.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/WW.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Azzarello and johns write two different WW. They might as well be in different continuties. Azzarelo WW=/=Johns' WW and unless it's shown by johns, its just foolish to think that diana would be portrayed any higher than she is now. One thing for sure is that she wouldn't be shown as more powerful than superman.

But they are not in different continuities. Same being.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Did he actually fight WW one on one yet? BTW, it was Keith/Dan who did the OMAC story.
Nope. Its hard to imagine that she would do any better than in DCU though. Superman still beat him though and one statement from him isn't indicative of anything when he likes to give others' props like "J'onn is most powerful guy on earth" or "Hal has more power than entire league".

Either way, we might get a WW vs Superman showdown.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/9/99507/2529895-justice_league_14_large.jpg

Originally posted by Golgo13
What did Superman do to Darky that was more impressive than WW? I remember WW restraining Darkseid with lasso and stabbed him in the eye.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/WW.jpg
You can't be serious! Though I take that back considering who I'm talking with. Darkseid was choking her with one hand, superman woke up from torture and went up against him alone.Originally posted by Golgo13
But they are not in different continuities. Same being.
You missed the point, though not surprising. Both write different takes on WW and unless its shown in JL its not true with johns' WW. I doubt he took azzarello's copy of WW 12 one month in advance and wrote that scene taking in account that WW would be more powerful without bracers.

Originally posted by Golgo13
I'm just talking DCnU. He doesn't seem unbeatable to me and his record shows it.

i was talking about DCNU also.

His record has been fine, so far.

======

Guys, keep it civil.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i was talking about DCNU also.

His record has been fine, so far.

======

Guys, keep it civil.

You think struggling with OMAC is fine?

Originally posted by abhilegend
You can't be serious! Though I take that back considering who I'm talking with. Darkseid was choking her with one hand, superman woke up from torture and went up against him alone.
You missed the point, though not surprising. Both write different takes on WW and unless its shown in JL its not true with johns' WW. I doubt he took azzarello's copy of WW 12 one month in advance and wrote that scene taking in account that WW would be more powerful without bracers.

Wow, more insults, huh?

Originally posted by -Pr-
i was talking about DCNU also.

His record has been fine, so far.

======

Guys, keep it civil.

I always keep it civil. It's the other poster who thinks he can just insult anyone on the boards.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Wow, more insults, huh?
What insults? Sarcasm is insulting now?

Originally posted by Golgo13
I always keep it civil. It's the other poster who thinks he can just insult anyone on the boards.

I wasn't addressing you personally.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I wasn't addressing you personally.

Oh, ok. Thanks.

Originally posted by Golgo13
You think struggling with OMAC is fine?
OMAC has always given superman trouble dating back to pre crisis.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i was talking about DCNU also.

His record has been fine, so far.

======

Guys, keep it civil.
I was just using sarcasm. Is that wrong too?

Buddy Blank has given Superman trouble as much as DCnu's fight with OMAC, who said he might be stronger than him? Isn't Buddy Blank mid tier at best?

Supes still beat OMAC didn't he, and it wasn't that hard. BTW this OMAC would smash Hulk

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Supes still beat OMAC didn't he, and it wasn't that hard. BTW this OMAC would smash Hulk

With Heat vision, IIRC. But it looked like OMAC had the upper hand on him. Helspont one-shotted him, too, I think. The Helspont/Superman thing will finish in Superman Annual #1.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Buddy Blank has given Superman trouble as much as DCnu's fight with OMAC, who said he might be stronger than him? Isn't Buddy Blank mid tier at best?
Nope.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What insults? Sarcasm is insulting now?

It was still rude. Which is why PR flagged the thread to be civil.

Originally posted by Golgo13
With Heat vision, IIRC. But it looked like OMAC had the upper hand on him. Helspont one-shotted him, too, I think. The Helspont/Superman thing will finish in Superman Annual #1.
Did you somehow missed the part where helspont had to teleport away from superman. Typical jurgens though.

Originally posted by Golgo13
With Heat vision, IIRC. But it looked like OMAC had the upper hand on him. Helspont one-shotted him, too, I think. The Helspont/Superman thing will finish in Superman Annual #1.

Superman and Hellspont had an extended fight.

Originally posted by abhilegend

You missed the point, though not surprising. Both write different takes on WW and unless its shown in JL its not true with johns' WW.

I don't think there's anything indicating any of the Nu52 titles outside of Earth 2 are in a different continuity.





Why would he have to? She fought bracers-on in JLA.

Originally posted by Golgo13
It was still rude. Which is why PR flagged the thread to be civil.
Sarcasm is not intended to be rude. You can take it that way though.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Stick to making useless threads. Supergirl was beaten like a ho against the imposter superman while superman easily beat him. He's even more golden boy like in DCnU when he's the first superhero and explicitly more powerful than anybody in league. As for feats he lifted an airliner from the bottom of ocean effortlessely. Compare that to azzarello's WW who just knocked down some trees in rage and that's it.
Not more powerful than darkseid. More powerful than other league members.

Did you read the context in that fight? That was a Superman that was more powerful than Current Supes, it was stated his power rivaled his future counterpart. Did you also read HOW Superman beat him. WTF.

Originally posted by carver9
Did you read the context in that fight? That was a Superman that was more powerful than Current Supes, it was stated his power rivaled his future counterpart. Did you also read HOW Superman beat him. WTF.

What are you talking about? That WAS current Superman.

Originally posted by Golgo13
With Heat vision, IIRC. But it looked like OMAC had the upper hand on him. Helspont one-shotted him, too, I think. The Helspont/Superman thing will finish in Superman Annual #1.

It looked like it always does, till Supes gets a little bit more serious. It's always the same *shrug. He struggled with Darkseid and even others took more from him then OMAC and don't forget, OMAC should easily be in the class 100.^^

Originally posted by Golgo13
Maybe because she doesn't have the experience in using her powers as was pointed out last issue? Doesn't change the fact that Superman has been defeated numerous times.


He is lying again. That wasn't your average Supes and the real Superman beat him via plot.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Superman and Hellspont had an extended fight.

Yeah, in the issue following his defeat. Superman went all out then, right?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Yeah, in the issue following his defeat. Superman went all out then, right?

I wouldn't say that.

Originally posted by -Pr-
What are you talking about? That WAS current Superman.


He was more powerful than Superman. Read the part where he blast Kara with hit vision. Read what Superman tells her. He was more powerful than Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
He was more powerful than Superman. Read the part where he blast Kara with hit vision. Read what Superman tells her. He was more powerful than Superman.

I think you need to re-read the comic.

Originally posted by Q99
I don't think there's anything indicating any of the Nu52 titles outside of Earth 2 are in a different continuity.





Why would he have to? She fought bracers-on in JLA.
You missed the point too. Unless geoff johns aquired an advanced copy of WW 12 before writing that scene in JL, its just speculative to think that he would write that scene the way he wrote. Azzarello's WW can't fly or has any superspeed and her strength is very low level. Johns' WW has both flight and superspeed and is on par with Preboot WW in strength. Its clear as day that both books are not synchronized at all.

By the way, Grifter has shown to be more powerful than anyone on the JLA, especially how he handled Hellspont.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I think you need to re-read the comic.

I read it 3 times, repeatedly...it states it in the comic.

Ugh. Guys, back on topic please.

Save the current discussion for another time.

Carver is reading Grifter? I wouldn't have guessed!

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/reilly.gif

Originally posted by carver9
Did you read the context in that fight? That was a Superman that was more powerful than Current Supes, it was stated his power rivaled his future counterpart. Did you also read HOW Superman beat him. WTF.
You don't want to go at it carv. Its clear you didn't read the comic and making shit up again.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You don't want to go at it carv. Its clear you didn't read the comic and making shit up again.

Do you have the entire fight with him and Supergirl? Especially the part where she asks why his heat vision is packing more of a punch than hers?

Originally posted by carver9
I read it 3 times, repeatedly...it states it in the comic.
Lulz. You have a special copy like everytime you get proved wrong?

Guys, I'm not going to ask again.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, I'm not going to ask again.

Are you talking about the Supergirl fight? I will get off that topic.

Originally posted by carver9
He is lying again. That wasn't your average Supes and the real Superman beat him via plot.

Carver I like you but you of all shouldn't accuse people of lying...

Originally posted by carver9
Do you have the entire fight with him and Supergirl? Especially the part where she asks why his heat vision is packing more of a punch than hers?
Yes, but that is a discussion for another time. On the topic, herc crushes her.

Post the fight in the character ownage thread.

Nut up or shut up.

As for the thread in hand? I think Hercules wins.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You missed the point too. Unless geoff johns aquired an advanced copy of WW 12 before writing that scene in JL, its just speculative to think that he would write that scene the way he wrote. Azzarello's WW can't fly or has any superspeed and her strength is very low level. Johns' WW has both flight and superspeed and is on par with Preboot WW in strength. Its clear as day that both books are not synchronized at all.


No, I didn't misread the point, I just disagree that you can discontinuity them like that (as much as I'd like to- personally I'd rather Azzarello's be turned into an elseworld story and John's overwrite her).

Johns wrote his WW based on what he knows of Azzarello's WW with bracers. He's choosing to focus more on the power end, but the two are in communication at the same company.

DC never identified them as different characters. They're moderately different takes, but they're all in the DCnU and there's no mention of 2 WW running around, so like it or not, I think we have to accept it.


----


As long as one doesn't make the assumption that they're two separate continuities, WW should win this.

Originally posted by carver9
Are you talking about the Supergirl fight? I will get off that topic.

Yes.

--------------------------

Is the current Wonder Woman series set in the present day?

Originally posted by Q99
No, I didn't misread the point, I just disagree that you can discontinuity them like that (as much as I'd like to- personally I'd rather Azzarello's be turned into an elseworld story and John's overwrite her).

Johns wrote his WW based on what he knows of Azzarello's WW with bracers. He's choosing to focus more on the power end, but the two are in communication at the same company.

DC never identified them as different characters. They're moderately different takes, but they're all in the DCnU and there's no mention of 2 WW running around, so like it or not, I think we have to accept it.


----


As long as one doesn't make the assumption that they're two separate continuities, WW should win this.
Even if we take the thing literally as it is, this diana can't beat herc. Though I doubt that if she removed her bracers, she would be portrayed above hal. Its just too soon.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yes.

--------------------------

Is the current Wonder Woman series set in the present day?

I don't think so - she can fly in her own series. Could she do that in the JL comic? I don't recall.

Plus.....Orion.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yes.

--------------------------

Is the current Wonder Woman series set in the present day?
Yup.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I don't think so - she can fly in her own series. Could she do that in the JL comic? I don't recall.

Plus.....Orion.
Its opposite. She can fly in JL but not in her own comic, hermes had to give her flight.

Yeah, last issue she had been given flight, I just didn't recall her flying in JL.

So, in summary.

JL is set in the future (5 years?) I don't think she has the feats to hang with Herc.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, last issue she had been given flight, I just didn't recall her flying in JL.

So, in summary.

JL is set in the future (5 years?) I don't think she has the feats to hang with Herc.
She flew and held up a plane in JL 7.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Yes.

--------------------------

Is the current Wonder Woman series set in the present day?

It isn't precisely dated next to the other comics.

It does seem like it takes place a bit before (the flight thing).


Originally posted by abhilegend
Even if we take the thing literally as it is, this diana can't beat herc. Though I doubt that if she removed her bracers, she would be portrayed above hal. Its just too soon.


From what we've seen, at this point, Bracer-less Wonder Woman should be solidly above Hal.

How she might or might not be portrayed later is speculation on what writers might not even do. It seems to me you'd have to remove the bracer-boost entirely to make it not be the case.

Wait, what?

Without bracers she's more powerful?

Hell, yeah. She was struggling to beat Artemis, once she took it off, Wondy owned her. Kind of like a Rock Lee from Naruto, right?

Originally posted by -Pr-
Wait, what?

Without bracers she's more powerful?

Yea.

http://www.abload.de/img/wonderwoman12-2gpj28.jpg


Smash smash crunch.

---
Like, remember how pre-crisis, when she removed them she'd go berserk? I think it's a call back to that.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Hell, yeah. She was struggling to beat Artemis, once she took it off, Wondy owned her. Kind of like a Rock Lee from Naruto, right?

I never watched Naruto.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea.

http://www.abload.de/img/wonderwoman12-2gpj28.jpg


Smash smash crunch.

---
Like, remember how pre-crisis, when she removed them she'd go berserk? I think it's a call back to that.

Ah, okay.

Originally posted by Q99
It isn't precisely dated next to the other comics.

It does seem like it takes place a bit before (the flight thing).





From what we've seen, at this point, Bracer-less Wonder Woman should be solidly above Hal.

How she might or might not be portrayed later is speculation on what writers might not even do. It seems to me you'd have to remove the bracer-boost entirely to make it not be the case.
We'll see. Though I think it only made her more berserk. She still wouldn't beat herc.

Not sure I like that twist. I didn't much care for Zeus being Diana's actual father, either, though.

So, I think what we've agreed on is that nobody in the DCnU has enough feats to gauge by.

amirite?

Originally posted by Cogito
So, I think what we've agreed on is that nobody in the DCnU has enough feats to gauge by.

amirite?

IDK but i think the situation in her ongoing is that Wondy is Zeus blood daughter now and the bracers hold her god power in or whatever. When she removes them she's basically got zeus power unrestrained

^ I don't think it's fair to label her unleashed powers, "Zeus' power" or "god power." Wonder Woman clearly knew her cuffs (guess they're not bracers anymore) restrained her full power for a while now. And she only just found out that she was Zeus' daughter.

While her full unrestrained power might rightly be a result of her lineage, it's not like this is a Zeus amp, like the Zeus lightning upgrade was pre-Flashpoint. And it's not a plot device awareness amp that resulted from the revelation that she was Zeus' daughter, i.e., "Since I know am Zeus' daughter, there must be some untapped reservoir of power I can tap! I think I'll try it out now~~!"

Analogously, Thor's power is obviously Odinpower mixed with Gaeapower, but we don't look at Thor's best feats while unleashed as Odinpower or Gaeapower. We think of it as Thor's power. Likewise, with this scene in Wonder Woman, I think we should think of it as Wonder Woman's power.