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http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103405/2493089-avx2012009_int_lr_0004_5.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/108927/2404056-superman-new-52.jpg

who wins?

So DCnU Superman vs. a Thor, whom I presume can only use feats from AvX?

I'm sure this thread will be a riot before it gets closed.

Yep, exclusive feats from AvX for Thor

Thor could probably give a good fight, actually.

A dose of heat vision ko's Thor. It isn't just AvX either where Thor is getting dropped like that. He is getting dropped in the Avengers title as well. It's all around.

This will be fun.

What has DCnU heat vision done that is equal to or superior to what has KO'd Thor in AvX, Carver?

Ok, I take it back...Supes drops him with a couple of well placed blows. Do you dispute this Jake?

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, I take it back...Supes drops him with a couple of well placed blows. Do you dispute this Jake?

It's debatable.

Do you think DCnU Superman would fare significantly better against the Phoenix Force/Phoenix Five than Thor would?

Based on his reading feat, I'd say he'd fair better.

The Five, anyway.

if colossus is able to fell thor, then I'd give it to superman

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's debatable.

Do you think DCnU Superman would fare significantly better against the Phoenix Force/Phoenix Five than Thor would?

No but that's kind of implying ABC logic, especially since we know the tricks and trades of Mjlonir.

Colossus is also significantly amped by both the PF and Cytorrak.

@Starcream...

That's not a normal Colossus and that Colossus would kill this version of Superman easily.

Originally posted by Starscream M
if colossus is able to fell thor, then I'd give it to superman

So DCNU Superman = a PF and Cytorrak amped Colossus?

Originally posted by carver9
No but that's kind of implying ABC logic, especially since we know the tricks and trades of Mjlonir.

So what leads you to believe that DCnU Superman is >= the Phoenix Force/P5 if you're using AvX's instances of Thor being defeated by them as evidence Kal would do the same?

That's a fair question, I think.

well, superman would still have a fairly significant speed advantage

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So what leads you to believe that DCnU Superman is >= the Phoenix Force/P5 if you're using AvX's instances of Thor being defeated by them as evidence Kal would do the same?

That's a fair question, I think.


I never said this version of Superman or pre reboot Supes is on the Phoenix 5 level but they are not the only peeps that has dropped Thor. Captain Mar-vell has dropped him as well, then he is getting dropped by things that other members of the Avengers is withstanding.

Originally posted by carver9
A dose of heat vision ko's Thor. It isn't just AvX either where Thor is getting dropped like that. He is getting dropped in the Avengers title as well. It's all around.

This is truth.

AvX Thor comes complete with glass jaw and easy knockout feature... (some reassembly required).

Originally posted by carver9
I never said this version of Superman or pre reboot Supes is on the Phoenix 5 level but they are not the only peeps that has dropped Thor. Captain Mar-vell has dropped him as well, then he is getting dropped by things that other members of the Avengers is withstanding.

Such as what?

Mar-Vell was clearly amped by the Phoenix Force, as stated and noted several times.

Originally posted by Starscream M
if colossus is able to fell thor, then I'd give it to superman

So DCNU Superman = a PF and Cytorrak amped Colossus?

Also, if that scan in the OP is to be taken at face value, Thor somehow took a beating from two Phoenix avatars and survived, in addition to one of them wielding a sword that is cater made for killing and harming magical beings.

Not sure how that's a low feat at all.

Originally posted by Silent Master
So DCNU Superman = a PF and Cytorrak amped Colossus? are you senile...I saw your post the first time

and one doesn't have to be PF or cytorrak to beat thor

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor somehow took a beating from two Phoenix avatars and survived of course he survived, every comic hero survives...that's kinda a moot point

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Such as what?

Mar-Vell was clearly amped by the Phoenix Force, as stated and noted several times.


Let's use a High Herald as an example. Gladiator...it took 3 of the Phoenix members to repeatedly pound on Gladiator for no telling how long, in order to drop him in a prolong fight. Thor got two pieced by Colossus and Magic. This also doesn't include Emma soloing him or Namor embarrassing him. That throws high Herald out the window.

Then we have the Avengers bringing the fight to the 5, everyone getting attacked, hell, Spiderman even withstands a beat down but then we have Thing carrying Thor yet again. He isn't operating at Heralds level, not even close. Superman isn't either but I would put him above this version of Thor imo. Not far above but enough to pull the majority.

Originally posted by Starscream M
of course he survived, every comic hero survives...that's kinda a moot point

facepalm

Way to completely demean the feat.

Originally posted by Starscream M
are you senile...I saw your post the first time

and one doesn't have to be PF or cytorrak to beat thor

You said "if colossus is able to fell thor, then I'd give it to superman"

Are you claiming that DCNU Superman is just as powerful as a PF and Cytorrak amped Colossus?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Also, if that scan in the OP is to be taken at face value, Thor somehow took a beating from two Phoenix avatars and survived, in addition to one of them wielding a sword that is cater made for killing and harming magical beings.

Not sure how that's a low feat at all.


It really wasn't that much of a beating.

Originally posted by Starscream M
and one doesn't have to be PF or cytorrak to beat thor

Of course not. But using examples of Thor being beaten by people amped by the PF and/or other sources as evidence as why Superman would do the same is silly.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
facepalm

Way to completely demean the feat. sorry to burst your bubble, but 'surviving' isn't exactly a feat in comicdom...that's literally the lowest bar you can set as comic characters (esp popular ones) are not allowed not to survive

if he had tanked that hit, it would be a feat....simply not dying isn't

Originally posted by Silent Master

Are you claiming that DCNU Superman is just as powerful as a PF and Cytorrak amped Colossus? no

Originally posted by Starscream M
no

Then what was the point in saying "if colossus is able to fell thor, then I'd give it to superman"?

Originally posted by carver9
Let's use a High Herald as an example. Gladiator...it took 3 of the Phoenix members to repeatedly pound on Gladiator for no telling how long, in order to drop him in a prolong fight. Thor got two pieced by Colossus and Magic. This also doesn't include Emma soloing him or Namor embarrassing him. That throws high Herald out the window.

Then we have the Avengers bringing the fight to the 5, everyone getting attacked, hell, Spiderman even withstands a beat down but then we have Thing carrying Thor yet again. He isn't operating at Heralds level, not even close. Superman isn't either but I would put him above this version of Thor imo. Not far above but enough to pull the majority.

The fact that they are able to beat Thor, whose entire history still counts as being a high herald, especially under the guy who writes his solo series (Matt Fraction) makes them >= high heralds. That's the clear point you're not getting. It was also made clear the PF was holding back when they dealt with Kallark and not in any danger at all.

Colossus is amped by the PF and Cytorrak and Magik has the Soul Sword which is a weapon specifically designed to beat magical and mystic foes...of which Thor clearly is. So how again is that a low feat? Normal Namor has always been able to give Thor a decent scrap if Thor doesn't go all out, and he effectively no sells Mjolnir. Pretty obvious the Phoenix Five are intended to be > top tiers conventionally without further diving up the PF amongst them. That's without mentioning the fact that Namor easily wrecked Rulk's arm. Pretty easy to put two and two together and get four.

So, again, the fact that the Phoenix Five can beat Thor doesn't mean you can abirtrarily decide that DCnU Superman can.

Originally posted by Starscream M
sorry to burst your bubble, but 'surviving' isn't exactly a feat in comicdom...that's literally the lowest bar you can set as comic characters (esp popular ones) are not allowed not to survive

if he had tanked that hit, it would be a feat....simply not dying isn't

That is horrendous logic.

Originally posted by carver9
It really wasn't that much of a beating.

You think Superman would physically fare better against Magik and Colossus, amped as they are with both telepathic/pyrokinetic powers in addition to mystical prowess?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You think Superman would physically fare better against Magik and Colossus, amped as they are with both telepathic/pyrokinetic powers in addition to mystical prowess? he might as he has the reaction and speed advantage

I never said the 5 isnt greater than High Herald level...they are. Why would I vote for Namor over Prime if I didn't think he was over Herald levels but you are clearly missing the point. It's not WHO is beating Thor, its HOW he is getting defeated.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You think Superman would physically fare better against Magik and Colossus, amped as they are with both telepathic/pyrokinetic powers in addition to mystical prowess?

Lol...read above Jake. I never said this version of Superman would do anything to any of the 5. It's how Thor is being defeated which is the problem.

Originally posted by Starscream M
he might as he has the reaction and speed advantage

"Might" doesn't fill me with much confidence.

I'm still failing to see how Thor getting beat up by guys portrayed as being more powerful than Thor consistently means Superman wins...especially when Thor's prior history and status as a high herald/top dog still count.

That would be like a new villain showing up and beating up Superman consistently for the arc he's starring and then arguing because he beat up Superman, Superman must be weakened now. It's obvious that the intent is that new villain is >= Superman not that Superman got depowered.

What speed feats did thor posses in AvX (stopped reading it after issue 2)

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
"Might" doesn't fill me with much confidence.

I'm still failing to see how Thor getting beat up by guys portrayed as being more powerful than Thor consistently means Superman wins...especially when Thor's prior history and status as a high herald/top dog still count.

That would be like a new villain showing up and beating up Superman consistently for the arc he's starring and then arguing because he beat up Superman, Superman must be weakened now. It's obvious that the intent is that new villain is >= Superman not that Superman got depowered. this thread is specifically about AvX thor, so his historical standing and feats don't apply

@Black

Speed isn't the issue here, its how both fight imo.

Originally posted by Starscream M
no

Then what was the point in saying "if colossus is able to fell thor, then I'd give it to superman"?

Originally posted by carver9
I never said the 5 isnt greater than High Herald level...they are. Why would I vote for Namor over Prime if I didn't think he was over Herald levels but you are clearly missing the point. It's not WHO is beating Thor, its HOW he is getting defeated.

You're either not getting this on purpose or incapable of.

HOW they're beating him is easy: they''re portrayed as being more powerful than him, whether in the form of energy projection or physical might amped by the Phoenix.

This really isn't hard. How does Thor getting beat up multiple times by foes clearly shown to be operating above his level consistently mean he's not at high herald levels? Makes no sense, and even less sense to argue that Superman beats him because of it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then what was the point in saying "if colossus is able to fell thor, then I'd give it to superman"? it was a statement in error...now bug off, you annoying little thorbag!

Originally posted by Starscream M
this thread is specifically about AvX thor, so his historical standing and feats don't apply

Then how do you determine how strong the Phoenix Force and the people it amps are then? Especially when they're being used as evidence to suggest Thor loses?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You're either not getting this on purpose or incapable of.

HOW they're beating him is easy: they''re portrayed as being more powerful than him, whether in the form of energy projection or physical might amped by the Phoenix.

This really isn't hard. How does Thor getting beat up multiple times by foes clearly shown to be operating above his level consistently mean he's not at high herald levels? Makes no sense, and even less sense to argue that Superman beats him because of it. what have they done (other than beat thor) that puts them clearly above thor's level?

Originally posted by Starscream M
it was a statement in error...now bug off, you annoying little thorbag!

At least you finally acknowledge that it was stupid comment.

Originally posted by Starscream M
what have they done (other than beat thor) that puts them clearly above thor's level?

Easily snap Rulk's arm, beat up Gladiator while holding back, take on entire teams of Avengers which include the likes of Thor and Rulk, etc.

That's why limiting a character to an specific arc and barring other feats is a problem because when a threat, specifically a new one, arrives and is shown to be > than Character X, it's clear the intent is to show how this character is more powerful than X, and operating at a level greater than the one of the character they've beaten up. It's also why arguing AvX has made Thor weaker is a horrible leap of logic when the opposite is much more obvious and makes more sense:

They're just more powerful than he is. And Thor has always been high herald level and nothing AvX did changes that.

I really don't see what's hard about seeing that.

Originally posted by carver9
@Black

Speed isn't the issue here, its how both fight imo.

Considering Supermans speed was arguably below the flash but not by a huge margin in Justice League. Since this is only AvX Thors feats outside of this arc doesn't count. Speed could be a big advantage here unless he has shown some kind of speed feats.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You're either not getting this on purpose or incapable of.

HOW they're beating him is easy: they''re portrayed as being more powerful than him, whether in the form of energy projection or physical might amped by the Phoenix.

This really isn't hard. How does Thor getting beat up multiple times by foes clearly shown to be operating above his level consistently mean he's not at high herald levels? Makes no sense, and even less sense to argue that Superman beats him because of it.


Emma shoots diamonds through his body and takes him out with a couple of well placed blows.

Namor blasts him and takes him out whereas the same Namor states he is going to kill Black Panther and blasts him but BP is still awake.

Rulk and the other Avengers are awake from a full blast from one of the five but Thor is koed.

Metas are withstanding things that are dropping Thor.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Considering Supermans speed was arguably below the flash but not by a huge margin in Justice League. Since this is only AvX Thors feats outside of this arc doesn't count. Speed could be a big advantage here unless he has shown some kind of speed feats.

Apparently, Thor managed to punch out a mutant with localized time manipulation which makes the mutant in question appear to have super speed of sorts.

Outside of that, I can't think of any explicit showings of speed other than Thor flying super fast and managing to hit Mar-Vell after Mar-Vell claimed he could see and perceive all of Thor's actions before they happened due to his amped Cosmic Awareness.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Considering Supermans speed was arguably below the flash but not by a huge margin in Justice League. Since this is only AvX Thors feats outside of this arc doesn't count. Speed could be a big advantage here unless he has shown some kind of speed feats.

..
Uuuuummm...Flash was blitzing the hell out of Supes. Supes got one lick on a Flash that stopped moving and you call them "near".? No, just no. Looking at on panel fts, Thor will hit Supes just like others have.

Originally posted by carver9
Emma shoots diamonds through his body and takes him out with a couple of well placed blows.

Namor blasts him and takes him out whereas the same Namor states he is going to kill Black Panther and blasts him but BP is still awake.

Rulk and the other Avengers are awake from a full blast from one of the five but Thor is koed.

Metas are withstanding things that are dropping Thor.

If a meta level character endures something that KO's a high herald, that's the very definition of PIS. facepalm

That would be like citing Batman soloing the JLA and arguing the League has been nerfed because Batman kicked their ass.

And this arc has Thor endure the Force incarnate's fire and stay conscious.

Originally posted by carver9
Emma shoots diamonds through his body and takes him out with a couple of well placed blows.

Namor blasts him and takes him out whereas the same Namor states he is going to kill Black Panther and blasts him but BP is still awake.

Rulk and the other Avengers are awake from a full blast from one of the five but Thor is koed.

Metas are withstanding things that are dropping Thor. After Thor completely shattered her Phoenix-empowered diamond form to tiny pieces. Something a Sinisterized Tiamut didn't even do to normal diamond form Emma Frost.

So the blasts that Phoenix Namor hits Thor with to knock him out are the same ones he's hitting Cap and Black Panther with. What an astounding deduction.

In the meantime, Thor fought the full Phoenixforce three times, stalling and crippling it in two of those fights. An entity that's been one-shotting planets left and right (and a herald).

AvX Thor wins.

Originally posted by ODG
After Thor completely shattered her Phoenix-empowered diamond form to tiny pieces. Something a Sinisterized Tiamut didn't even do to normal diamond form Emma Frost.

So the blasts that Phoenix Namor hits Thor with to knock him out are the same ones he's hitting Cap and Black Panther with. What an astounding deduction.

In the meantime, Thor fought the full Phoenixforce three times, stalling and crippling it in two of those fights. An entity that's been one-shotting planets and heralds left and right.

AvX Thor wins.



I mean, yes, this event has had Thor losing a lot and is far from well written, but it's clear - painfully so - that the PF and its hosts are portrayed as being > Thor. How that in turn means Thor is weak is beyond me, to say nothing of using these examples as evidence as to why Superman would win.

Originally posted by ODG
After Thor completely shattered her Phoenix-empowered diamond form to tiny pieces. Something a Sinisterized Tiamut didn't even do to normal diamond form Emma Frost.

So the blasts that Phoenix Namor hits Thor with to knock him out are the same ones he's hitting Cap and Black Panther with. What an astounding deduction.

In the meantime, Thor fought the full Phoenixforce three times, stalling and crippling it in two of those fights. An entity that's been one-shotting planets left and
right (and a herald).

AvX Thor wins.


Hhhhhmmmm...good points.

Originally posted by ODG


In the meantime, Thor fought the full Phoenixforce three times, stalling and crippling it in two of those fights. An entity that's been one-shotting planets left and right (and a herald).

AvX Thor wins. so is thor trans now?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Apparently, Thor managed to punch out a mutant with localized time manipulation which makes the mutant in question appear to have super speed of sorts.

Outside of that, I can't think of any explicit showings of speed other than Thor flying super fast and managing to hit Mar-Vell after Mar-Vell claimed he could see and perceive all of Thor's actions before they happened due to his amped Cosmic Awareness.

thats a pretty good feat imo. Though I can't give an entirely explicit answer to this other then Thor may have some good durability feats as you previously mentioned but Superman has a lot more with all of his different appearances in the New 52. I would say that getting hit by the OE and living is a pretty decent showing also.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


I mean, yes, this event has had Thor losing a lot and is far from well written, but it's clear - painfully so - that the PF and its hosts are portrayed as being > Thor. How that in turn means Thor is weak is beyond me, to say nothing of using these examples as evidence as to why Superman would win. its funny how you equate thor losing as to being poorly written...

Originally posted by Starscream M
so is thor trans now?

He's a high herald with absurd feats that dip into that category of trans level.

Which is consistent with Thor's entire history.

Originally posted by Starscream M
its funny how you equate thor losing as to being poorly written...

Two separate thoughts there, Brucie.

Thor losing doesn't make an event poorly written.

The mutant community being vilified and character assassinated and people acting wildly out of character make this a poor event. I'd rather have a good story than good feats to argue for a battleboard.

Originally posted by carver9
..
Uuuuummm...Flash was blitzing the hell out of Supes. Supes got one lick on a Flash that stopped moving and you call them "near".? No, just no. Looking at on panel fts, Thor will hit Supes just like others have. this is an argument for another time. Flash was quite obviously faster thats not the question at hand. Though going by on panel proof superman was moving with speed near the flash. He was perceiving the flash fast enough to see him moving yet when he was grabbing at him he was just missing each time.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
this is an argument for another time. Flash was quite obviously faster thats not the question at hand. Though going by on panel proof superman was moving with speed near the flash. He was perceiving the flash fast enough to see him moving yet when he was grabbing at him he was just missing each time.


So Flash was going his top speed during that fight? Was Batman and the GL able to perceive Flash during that fight.?

Originally posted by carver9
So Flash was going his top speed during that fight? Was Barman and the GL able to perceive Flash during that fight.?

WTF are you talking about? No one made that claim. Stop making things up my friend.

Originally posted by Starscream M
so is thor trans now?
No but he is the pinnacle of high herald

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
WTF are you talking about? No one made that claim. Stop making things up my friend.


Sigh...in order for you to believe they were near equals, Flash had to have been going his top speed, no? So that is what I'm asking. Not trying to put words in your mouth buddy.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
No but he is the pinnacle of high herald


Pretty much.

Originally posted by carver9
Pretty much.

Which is weird you think that, given that in your mind, AvX lowered his stock to meta level?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Which is weird you think that, given that in your mind, AvX lowered his stock to meta level?

Im not using AvX as a whole for Thor. I've always told you and everyone else that I think of Thor as the most powerful Herald.

Originally posted by carver9
Im not using AvX as a whole for Thor. I've always told you and everyone else that I think of Thor as the most powerful Herald.

You just did in this thread.

Unless ODG convinced you that even in the context of AvX and AvX alone, Thor is high herald.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You just did in this thread.

Unless ODG convinced you that even in the context of AvX and AvX alone, Thor is high herald.


You seen me agree with him right?

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh...in order for you to believe they were equals, Flash had to have been going his top speed, no? So that is what I'm asking. Not trying to put words in your mouth buddy.

No. I was speaking of that isolated incidence. It was obvious The Flash was much faster if you read his book. So clearly I meant he was near the flash in that incidence. Would you say thor could have done any better then superman did while flash was moving at that speed? But if you would prefer a different instance ...remember when Flash and Supers was running from the OE? The Flash's face was obviously showing tiring. A moment longer and it would have hit him. After that panel superman was hit unless you are going to say one beam was moving faster then the other.....

Originally posted by carver9
You seen me agree with him right?

Wasn't sure if you saying he had good points completely changed your mind on the matter or not.

Originally posted by pym-ftw
No but he is the pinnacle of high herald

To be fair, so is SS, Superman or GL Hal. They all are Trans+ sometimes.

Split.

Originally posted by carver9
Let's use a High Herald as an example. Gladiator...it took 3 of the Phoenix members to repeatedly pound on Gladiator for no telling how long, in order to drop him in a prolong fight. Thor got two pieced by Colossus and Magic. This also doesn't include Emma soloing him or Namor embarrassing him. That throws high Herald out the window.

Then we have the Avengers bringing the fight to the 5, everyone getting attacked, hell, Spiderman even withstands a beat down but then we have Thing carrying Thor yet again. He isn't operating at Heralds level, not even close. Superman isn't either but I would put him above this version of Thor imo. Not far above but enough to pull the majority. Gladz was on his deathbed from that one beating Thor has taken 5-6 beatings and hes still walking around

Originally posted by Starscream M
its funny how you equate thor losing as to being poorly written...
Poorly written is poorly written. Losing is losing. Sometimes the two connect, sometimes they don't.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Gladz was on his deathbed from that one beating Thor has taken 5-6 beatings and hes still walking around

He was in a coma iirc. And all he got was a glorified beat down. He stopped fighting back after Colossus worked him.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
No. I was speaking of that isolated incidence. It was obvious The Flash was much faster if you read his book. So clearly I meant he was near the flash in that incidence. Would you say thor could have done any better then superman did while flash was moving at that speed? But if you would prefer a different instance ...remember when Flash and Supers was running from the OE? The Flash's face was obviously showing tiring. A moment longer and it would have hit him. After that panel superman was hit unless you are going to say one beam was moving faster then the other.....


Sigh, just sigh. Everyone during that instance was injured/fatigue. Not a good testament towards what you are trying to argue.

Thor gets oneshot by Mjolnir when the hammer decides Thor ain't worth it.

Originally posted by carver9
Sigh, just sigh. Everyone during that instance was injured/fatigue. Not a good testament towards what you are trying to argue.

lulz at that statement. What you just said was basically that Superman and Flash were tired and beaten yet somehow were still moving at similar speeds.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Poorly written is poorly written. Losing is losing. Sometimes the two connect, sometimes they don't.



He was in a coma iirc. And all he got was a glorified beat down. He stopped fighting back after Colossus worked him.


You can't even compare the two. When did Thor get hit on repeatedly by two Phoenix 5 members? Never happened. That was a prolong battle and Thor probably would have died looking at the 90 times he was one shotted during this arc. One Phoenix user knocked him the hell out, imagine what two would have done if they kept pounding on him like they did Gladiator.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
lulz at that statement. What you just said was basically that Superman and Flash were tired and beaten yet somehow were still moving at similar speeds.


Flash picked Superman off of the ground and ran with him. Why are you handing this ft to Superman?

Originally posted by carver9
Flash picked Superman off of the ground and ran with him. Why are you handing this ft to Superman?

yes he picked up a superman that wasn't even looking in the direction of darkside and ran......until he let him go and superman took off flying.

Im in no way saying superman is as fast as flash as that would be very hypocritical of me. All I'm saying is these two instances he was near the speed of what flash was showing in these instances. how is that so hard to comprehend? and you still never answered my question.....

Originally posted by carver9
You can't even compare the two. When did Thor get hit on repeatedly by two Phoenix 5 members? Never happened. That was a prolong battle and Thor probably would have died looking at the 90 times he was one shotted during this arc. One Phoenix user knocked him the hell out, imagine what two would have done if they kept pounding on him like they did Gladiator.

Colossus and Magik lol?

lol @ "prolonged battle" It was a glorified beat down.

It was indeed a single Phoenix user that put glads down also. Namor just came after he was done.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
yes he picked up a superman that wasn't even looking in the direction of darkside and ran......until he let him go and superman took off flying.

Im in no way saying superman is as fast as flash as that would be very hypocritical of me. All I'm saying is these two instances he was near the speed of what flash was showing in these instances. how is that so hard to comprehend? and you still never answered my question.....


Understandable but both fts are unquantifable since we have no recollection on how fast Flash was going during those instances. I also don't believe Darkseid Omegas are anywhere near light speed. Then Darkseid was able to perceive both of them during that instance, someone that doesn't have a single showing of super speed.

What was your question?

Originally posted by Damborgson
Colossus and Magik lol?

lol @ "prolonged battle" It was a glorified beat down.

It was indeed a single Phoenix user that put glads down also. Namor just came after he was done.

90% of that fight took place off panel. Lol...the next time we see Gladiator after his fight against Cyclops, TWO Phoenix users was pounding on him.

Colossus and Magik didnt have a prolong fight against Thor, Glads got pounded on for no telling how long. Like I said, majority of the fight took place off panel but it sure as hell was ucmuch longer than any fight Thor been in and looking at the one shots he has endured, he probably would have died if he was put in Gladiator shoes.

Originally posted by carver9
Understandable but both fts are unquantifable since we have no recollection on how fast Flash was going during those instances. I also don't believe Darkseid Omegas are anywhere near light speed. Then Darkseid was able to perceive both of them during that instance, someone that doesn't have a single showing of super speed.

What was your question?

lol In the scene where superman was trying to grab flash, in your opinion would Thor from AvX fair better or worse?

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
lol In the scene where superman was trying to grab flash, in your opinion would Thor from AvX fair better or worse?

You mean Flash grabbing Superman? That was more of a flight ft for Superman so yes, he probably could since in AvX, it was stated that Mjlonir moves 3 times the speed of light and his hammer is what guides him.

no no. The part in the JL where superman managed to flick the flash. When superman was grabbing at him.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
no no. The part in the JL where superman managed to flick the flash. When superman was grabbing at him.

No, I don't think Thor could do it...he doesn't have the fts in AVX.

Superman has also ran 25000 mph and he has also read every medical book that was in a particular library in 5 minutes. I can't picture Thor doing any of that, even outside of AvX but I also don't consider Superman unhittable.

I thought he only ran 2500 mph?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I thought he only ran 2500 mph?

IIRC, it was 25000 mph which took him out of orbit.

Originally posted by carver9
90% of that fight took place off panel. Lol...the next time we see Gladiator after his fight against Cyclops, TWO Phoenix users was pounding on him.

Colossus and Magik didnt have a prolong fight against Thor, Glads got pounded on for no telling how long. Like I said, majority of the fight took place off panel but it sure as hell was ucmuch longer than any fight Thor been in and looking at the one shots he has endured, he probably would have died if he was put in Gladiator shoes.

I'd love to see how you quantified that only 10% of it took place on panel.

Thats because he got put down. From what I saw, Colussus delivered the finishing hit then Namor came and helped pound him. It's not like Gladiator would have fought back. He was done.

Prove they didn't. Thor has damage done that was not from a single swipe and punch. Chances are Thor used himself as a distraction so the others could run.

That's not a prolonged battle. Gladiator would have had to fight back for it to be a battle. He was finished and repeatedly beaten. Thats all.

Speculation based on nothing. Trying to make Gladiator getting put in a coma some sort of high showing lol. Thor did have the prolonged battle with Colossus and Magik. The evidence is in the OP. You're just wanking Gladiator. Like saying he did anything at all to Phoenix Force colossus other than smacking him and getting him to blink. Thor shattered Emma's entire Diamond form. But it still ultimately did nothing. Same as Gladiator.

lol @ Thor dying.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
no no. The part in the JL where superman managed to flick the flash. When superman was grabbing at him.

Like the new sig.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Like the new sig.

Thanks! I thought Issue one was a good start! I hope this series can do good!

Originally posted by carver9
No, I don't think Thor could do it...he doesn't have the fts in AVX.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman has also ran 25000 mph and he has also read every medical book that was in a particular library in 5 minutes. I can't picture Thor doing any of that, even outside of AvX but I also don't consider Superman unhittable.

so you do think superman is faster?

@Damborgson...

You don't make one bit of since and you probably wasn't reading the comic. We see Gladiator and Cyclops fighting...the next panel it shows Cyclops hugged up with Emma while Namor and Colossus is pounding on Gladiator. Gladiator face was bruised like he was fighting for days. Relook at the fight.

Then it skips again to an entire another scene once they take the camera away from Gladiator son. Majority of the fight took place off panel. This doesn't include Gladiator punching Colossus while having on a fresh outfit then the next time we see Gladiator, his suit is all ripped up. Majority, if not, ALL of that fight took place off panel.

Thor got worked more than once by one Phoenix user whereas they had to gangbang Gladiator. Get over it and move on.

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Thanks! I thought Issue one was a good start! I hope this series can do good!





so you do think superman is faster?

Yes.

Then how is that not an advantage?

Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Then how is that not an advantage?

It is an advantage. You was making it sound as if he was unhittable.

Originally posted by carver9
@Damborgson...

You don't make one bit of since and you probably wasn't reading the comic. We see Gladiator and Cyclops fighting...the next panel it shows Cyclops hugged up with Emma while Namor and Colossus is pounding on Gladiator. Gladiator face was bruised like he was fighting for days. Relook at the fight.

Then it skips again to an entire another scene once they take the camera away from Gladiator son. Majority of the fight took place off panel. This doesn't include Gladiator punching Colossus while having on a fresh outfit then the next time we see Gladiator, his suit is all ripped up. Majority, if not, ALL of that fight took place off panel.

Thor got worked more than once by one Phoenix user whereas they had to gangbang Gladiator. Get over it and move on.

Coming from you the irony is incredible.

For days lol. Stop. He got beat up, and there's nothing more to it. You also have never been in a fight in your life apparently. After enough hits , the face swells up pretty bad. Especially when they are so superior in strength and striking power as are the Phoenix 5. And it usually takes only a few short minutes. Not days.

Yeah the majority of the beat down took place off panel. It was still a beat down, not a fight. The last bit of Gladiator resistance shown was when he attacked Cyclops who was trying to reason as much as possible without having to beat the hell out of him. Then Gladiator tackled him (understandably of course) and the beat down began. There was no struggle in between. At best you could say both attacked him at once so he never had a shot.

also wtf? ALL of the fight took place off panel? What about the stuff on panel in the comic? Calm down lol.

They didn't have to do anything. They chose to beat the crap out of him together. At the end, no one had a mark on them except for Gladiator who was in a coma.

Get over what? You're the one who started spazzing for me agreeing with iceman. If you want someone to move on you do it. It's not hard to see you're trying to convince yourself more than me.

Wasn't trying to say it as them fighting for days foreal, I was using a metaphor. Also, the fight took place off panel. You didn't explain anything that was stated in my post...you are just assuming.

Lol. Mad props to carver though - no matter the participants, he will find a way to big up his fave characters, even if they are nowhere near the thread.

As for the fight, I split it, same as DCnU Supes and normal Thor.

Originally posted by carver9
Wasn't trying to say it as them fighting for days foreal, I was using a metaphor. Also, the fight took place off panel. You didn't explain anything that was stated in my post...you are just assuming.

Ok so we're just doing this thing where no matter what I say you'll ignore it and think whatever you want right? k.

concession accepted buddy.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Ok so we're just doing this thing where no matter what I say you'll ignore it and think whatever you want right? k.

concession accepted buddy.

No concession at all since you are wrong. Didn't look like Emma was going all out on Thor either since she smiled through the beat down and made jokes as well.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman has also ran 25000 mph and he has also read every medical book that was in a particular library in 5 minutes. I can't picture Thor doing any of that, even outside of AvX but I also don't consider Superman unhittable.


I believe he read all the medical books in about 1 minute. 5 minutes was the time it took for the training and operation.

As for supes being unhittable, he can just about be if he chooses too. And he is just under flash in speed

Originally posted by carver9
No concession at all since you are wrong. Didn't look like Emma was going all out on Thor either since she smiled through the beat down and made jokes as well.

Well you can't prove anything so I guess I'm not.

Hulk smiled while fighting Betty in the Dark dimension. He wasn't holding back though.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Lol. Mad props to carver though - no matter the participants, he will find a way to big up his fave characters, even if they are nowhere near the thread.

As for the fight, I split it, same as DCnU Supes and normal Thor.


So you would give DCNU Supes a split against normal Thor?

Originally posted by carver9
So you would give DCNU Supes a split against normal Thor?

Yah. I don't think Thor is THAT weakened, and I guess I am basing my feeling on DCnU Superman on just that - a feeling. He has a definite speed advantage over Thor, but whether he has the strength to make it count? That is why I give a split.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Well you can't prove anything so I guess I'm not.

Hulk smiled while fighting Betty in the Dark dimension. He wasn't holding back though.

If Emma would've kept pounding on Thor, do you think he would have lived through it? What if all the Avengers was koed when Namor had Thor limp body in his hands and Namor decided to put all of his attention towards Thor without any outside interference. Would Thor have died if Namor kept pounding on his limp body? Yes or no.?

....He didn't knock Thor out. We've been over this lol. He was not limp - his arms and legs weren't limp. He was gripping Mjolnir, so not limp. His head was up - so not limp.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yah. I don't think Thor is THAT weakened, and I guess I am basing my feeling on DCnU Superman on just that - a feeling. He has a definite speed advantage over Thor, but whether he has the strength to make it count? That is why I give a split.


You can't be serious. Nova Prime has a speed advantage over Thor and based on strength fts, Nova is stronger than reboot Supes. Would you give Nova the majority as well? What about Surfer, Gladiator, Hyperion...all of whom have fts far superior to DCNU Supes? Let me know.

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af191/lgu88/AVX-Zone-016.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
....He didn't knock Thor out. We've been over this lol. He was not limp - his arms and legs weren't limp. He was gripping Mjolnir, so not limp. His head was up - so not limp.


Answer the Emma question then. Or how about when Cyclops koed him. What if Cyke decided to walk over and pound on Thor...would he die?

Originally posted by carver9
You can't be serious. Nova Prime has a speed advantage over Thor and based ok strength fts, Nova is stronger than reboot Supes. Would you give Nova the majority as well? What about Surfer, Gladiator, Hyperion...all of whom have fts far superior to DCNU Supes? Let me know.
Like I said, its only a feeling, not based off feats...so...do I think DCnU Superman has the reserves, the tank, to call upon, that the others don't? Sure.

Originally posted by carver9
If Emma would've kept pounding on Thor, do you think he would have lived through it? What if all the Avengers was koed when Namor had Thor limp body in his hands and Namor decided to put all of his attention towards Thor without any outside interference. Would Thor have died if Namor kept pounding on his limp body? Yes or no.?

If Namor and Colossus had kept pounding on Gladiator he'd have lived through it?

Thor wasn't ko'd. He had his head up, his helmet on, and a very tightly grasped Mjolnir in his hands. Namor was just yanking him by the cape.

Originally posted by carver9
If Emma would've kept pounding on Thor, do you think he would have lived through it? What if all the Avengers was koed when Namor had Thor limp body in his hands and Namor decided to put all of his attention towards Thor without any outside interference. Would Thor have died if Namor kept pounding on his limp body? Yes or no.?

So you're asking me, if Emma/Cyclops, who have been shown to be above Thor (by beating him), if they continued beating him when he was beaten....would they beat him into beaten submission with a beating?

Yes, lol.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Like I said, its only a feeling, not based off feats...so...do I think DCnU Superman has the reserves, the tank, to call upon, that the others don't? Sure.

Lol, what are you basing this off of though? He has been defeating on numerous of occasions and again, he doesn't have the fts equal or NEAR anyone I've mentioned. Are you tipsy tonight Dark? This doesn't sound anything like you. If you would give this version of Superman a split against Thor, pre reboot Superman should be able to slaughter Thor 10/10 with ease.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol, what are you basing this off of though? He has been defeating on numerous of occasions and again, he doesn't have the fts equal or NEAR anyone I've mentioned. Are you tipsy tonight Dark? This doesn't sound anything like you. If you would give this version of Superman a split against Thor, pre reboot Superman should be able to slaughter Thor 10/10 with ease.

I won't say 10/10 with ease....but I think he'd beat him, yes.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So you're asking me, if Emma/Cyclops, who have been shown to be above Thor (by beating him), if they continued beating him when he was beaten....would they beat him into beaten submission with a beating?

Yes, lol. Beatception?

Originally posted by Damborgson
If Namor and Colossus had kept pounding on Gladiator he'd have lived through it?

Thor wasn't ko'd. He had his head up, his helmet on, and a very tightly grasped Mjolnir in his hands. Namor was just yanking him by the cape.

Which is my point. Emma koed Thor with some well place blows while smiling. Namor and Colossus POUNDED on Gladiator and he still wasn't out. Can't believe you don't see the difference in this, so freaking obvious.

Scarlet Witch should have just increased the odds so that The PF commits suicide. It would have fit perfectly with the writing in this arc imo....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I won't say 10/10 with ease....but I think he'd beat him, yes.

10/10?

Originally posted by carver9
Which is my point. Emma koed Thor with some well place blows while smiling. Namor and Colossus POUNDED on Gladiator and he still wasn't out. Can't believe you don't see the difference in this, so freaking obvious.

It is fairly obvious, to me anyway.

Emma is a *****.

Originally posted by carver9
10/10?

Nah. 6/10, maaaayyyybe even 7/10?

I guess I AM power sharing a bit between pre and post DCnU, so whilst DCnU Superman does NOT have the feats to suggest he can hang with pre, I think (and this is a feeling) that given time, based on the history of these reboots, that DCnU Supes will soon be up there.

Originally posted by carver9
Which is my point. Emma koed Thor with some well place blows while smiling. Namor and Colossus POUNDED on Gladiator and he still wasn't out. Can't believe you don't see the difference in this, so freaking obvious.

......what? That wasn't your point. You're making this up as you go lol.

She ko'd him after a rain of Phoenix shards tore through him. Then a brutal beat down. Thor was out, and was up again soon. Gladiator was put in a coma Carver. That's the difference.

At what point did Cyclops give up trying to talk to Gladiator?

Thor's skirmish with the Force incarnate > Gladiator's encounter with the hosts.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nah. 6/10, maaaayyyybe even 7/10?

I guess I AM power sharing a bit between pre and post DCnU, so whilst DCnU Superman does NOT have the feats to suggest he can hang with pre, I think (and this is a feeling) that given time, based on the history of these reboots, that DCnU Supes will soon be up there.


So you changed your mind about DCNU beating Thor?

Originally posted by carver9
So you changed your mind about DCNU beating Thor?

Nope. Its still a split. He COULD beat Thor, and Thor COULD beat him. Either outcome is likely.

Pre-reboot Superman could also beat Thor, but its more likely that Superman beats him, but not by a huge amount.

Originally posted by Damborgson
......what? That wasn't your point. You're making this up as you go lol.

She ko'd him after a rain of Phoenix shards tore through him. Then a brutal beat down. Thor was out, and was up again soon. Gladiator was put in a coma Carver. That's the difference.


Gladiator was also pounded on by a Phoenix user that is amped off of Cytorrak powers and Namor as well. You clinging on to Emma, making her seem similar to two Phoenix users (and one of them is more powerful than her) is making you look foolish. You can't compare what Glads went through to what Thor went though...completely different. Thor got dropped and again, if she kept pounding (one user) he probably would have died.

Lulz at this thread. Thor wins. Now if it was Avengers Assemble Thor..........................

Thor already experienced worse than Gladiator did in this arc and recovered faster.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Nope. Its still a split. He COULD beat Thor, and Thor COULD beat him. Either outcome is likely.

Pre-reboot Superman could also beat Thor, but its more likely that Superman beats him, but not by a huge amount.


So how many wins would you give reboot Supes over pre reboot Superman.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor already experienced worse than Gladiator did in this arc and recovered faster.

Are you referring to the Phoenix blasting Thor.?

Originally posted by carver9
Are you referring to the Phoenix blasting Thor.?

Thor dealt with the full force three times and managed to clip its wing and harm the entity itself.

That blows Gladiator's encounter out of the water.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor dealt with the full force three times and managed to clip its wing and harm the entity itself.

That blows Gladiator's encounter out of the water.

Didn't Ms. Marvel and some other Avengers also withstood attacks from a full powered Phoenix? Are you putting everyone that withstood attacks from this Phoenix above Glads?

I haven't read the comics.

But yes and yes.

Originally posted by carver9
Didn't Ms. Marvel and some other Avengers also withstood attacks from a full powered Phoenix? Are you putting everyone that withstood attacks from this Phoenix above Glads?

Ms. Marvel and other Avengers didn't take an attack from the Phoenix and then recover enough to actually muster an attack against the Phoenix and damage them on their own. Pretty obvious Thor fared the best against the Force itself out of his teammates.

Originally posted by carver9
So how many wins would you give reboot Supes over pre reboot Superman.

That's...a strange question.

Very few - I'd say pre-Supes wins 6/10, maaayyyybe 7/10?

"AVX Thor" doesn't exist.

you either debate Thor, or this gets closed.

AvX Thor misses wildly and somehow his hammer swing comes back around and hits him in the back of the head, one shotting himself.

Originally posted by carver9
Didn't Ms. Marvel and some other Avengers also withstood attacks from a full powered Phoenix? Are you putting everyone that withstood attacks from this Phoenix above Glads? All the avengers were koed except Thor

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's...a strange question.

Very few - I'd say pre-Supes wins 6/10, maaayyyybe 7/10?

You're joking around right?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Ms. Marvel and other Avengers didn't take an attack from the Phoenix and then recover enough to actually muster an attack against the Phoenix and damage them on their own. Pretty obvious Thor fared the best against the Force itself out of his teammates.

I disagree.

Originally posted by carver9
I disagree.

You disagree with what actually happened on panel?

Originally posted by CosmicComet
AvX Thor misses wildly and somehow his hammer swing comes back around and hits him in the back of the head, one shotting himself.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You disagree with what actually happened on panel?

No, he didn't tank it better than everyone. Captain Brittain was still awake after an attack IIRC.

Originally posted by -Pr-
"AVX Thor" doesn't exist.

you either debate Thor, or this gets closed.


I think some of you all missed this post. This is no longer about AVX Thor.