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Billy utilizing his magical powers to their fullest and current versions of all others. Blood lusted battle in abandoned area, who wins?

Team one, 6-7/10.

Team 2 wins

Actually they are pretty close in power but Orion and Thor are Warriors. SS had always his problems with Thor, so I would say Team 1 6/10

team one 7/10 ftw

Both Thor and Orion are warriors-to-the-bone, whether fighting h2h or long-range. They're comfortable in either arena. 2 points for each.

Captain Marvel is basically a h2h fighter. Does he have any ranged abilities? I don't think he can "shazam" down a lightning bolt at a distance, otherwise, why does he usually wait til his opponent is near before shouting the magic word? CM gets 1 pt.

The Surfer is a long-range fighter. He has surprisingly good h2h skills, but again: both his opponents are trained warriors, likely his superiors in this area. Soarin' Norrin gets 1 pt.

4 > 2.

team 2 because of surfer...7/10

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
team one 7/10 ftw

Team one 7/10 orion and Thor are too much. CM needs another partner.

My instincts told me team 2 but after reading compelling arguments for team 1 I'm on the fence. I'll wait a bit before coming to a decision.

Motherbox turns cap into billy, then its a beating for surfer.

Id go Team 2, 6/10. A no holding back Surfer is a sight to behold.

Team 2 for the win. And by some margin too.
Surfer's faster and more durable than anyone here.
He can attack from more angles, his board can KO or trap either Thor or Orion and he can easily destroy Orion's harness with a simple thought.

Team 2 8-9/10.

Originally posted by janus77
Team 2 for the win. And by some margin too.
Surfer's faster and more durable than anyone here.
He can attack from more angles, his board can KO or trap either Thor or Orion and he can easily destroy Orion's harness with a simple thought.

Team 2 8-9/10.

i am with you on this.... i have a feeling this will be a bigger mess than it needs to be.

Agreed. Team 2. Surfer is simply too fast for Team 1.

Team 1. It's basically Surfer vs Thor and Orion and Surfer isn't beating both of them.

You have no stock of Capt Marvel holding his own against either Thor or Orion?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Motherbox turns cap into billy, then its a beating for surfer.

Since when can a Motherbox turn CM into Billy? If thats actually happened as canon, then clearly Team 2 has no chance here, and these teams are pretty lopsided.

There was an instance when Billy couldn't change into Captain Marvel, so he used someone's MB to help him change. Or it could be the other way. Either way, Billy isn't beating Orion. Orion himself could give Surfer a good fight. Same with Thor.

Same with Capt Marvel, who routinely gives Superman and Wonder Woman good fights.

wow to the captain marvel no selling...he gives either one on team to a hell of a fight.

Motherbox can easily produce shazam lightning. Billy used one when he couldn't speak to change in captain marvel and back for pretty long time in Power of Shazam title. If he fights against orion, he is toast.

Team 1.

Team 1, even without factoring in the Motherbox depowering Billy.

Captain Marvel can beat anyone mentioned in this thread.

Originally posted by bbrem123
team 2 because of surfer...7/10

Team 2 because of Captain Marvel.

Interesting match-up. Team two would have the edge if Thor matches up against Captain Marvel. Thor seems to have trouble with flying bricks of Captain Marvel's caliber. I would give the Surfer odds over Orion as long as he's not messing around.

On the other hand, if Thor matches up against the Surfer this is a 50/50 fight. Thor is the worst match-up for the Surfer of any top-tier. Mjolnir is a good counter to the Power Cosmic. Captain Marvel vs Orion is 50/50, IMO.

Team 1

Billy should be a top tier herald but he seem to be a notch under the other 3 in this team.

SS has a good shot a beating either Thor or Orion, but Thor has always been the better of the 2 and Orion has a very simlair powerset and fighting abilites to Thor so i give them the edge

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Team 1

Billy should be a top tier herald but he seem to be a notch under the other 3 in this team.

SS has a good shot a beating either Thor or Orion, but Thor has always been the better of the 2 and Orion has a very simlair powerset and fighting abilites to Thor so i give them the edge

Orion doesn't have a magic hammer to block PC blasts. He will be absorbing a lot more punishment than Thor usually does. The Surfer would work him if they went at it seriously. I won't even mention Darkseid:The Hunger.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Orion doesn't have a magic hammer to block PC blasts. He will be absorbing a lot more punishment than Thor usually does. The Surfer would work him if they went at it seriously. I won't even mention Darkseid:The Hunger.

I agree that Thor can absorb energy better, but Orion has FAR greater physical durability than Thor. The SS is also notorious for his glass jaw.

But I still think team 2 gets a slight majority mainly because of the speed advantage. It really all depends on how each team fights. If the SS and CM push their speed advantage they will win a solid majority. If they don't I can see team Thor winning the majority.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
I agree that Thor can absorb energy better, but Orion has FAR greater physical durability than Thor. The SS is also notorious for his glass jaw.

But I still think team 2 gets a slight majority mainly because of the speed advantage. It really all depends on how each team fights. If the SS and CM push their speed advantage they will win a solid majority. If they don't I can see team Thor winning the majority.

The Surfer is the most durable member of either team. He's had some bad moments but no more so than any of the others. I don't see how Orion is any more durable than Thor is. They are similar and far less indestructable than the Surfer.

Ok, since Surfers rebirth, Annihilation, when has he been knocked out? I think people are still clinging to his fts 10+ yrs ago. That glass jaw comment needs to drop because that is no longer the case anymore. I can't even remember the last time Surfer has been koed.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok, since Surfers rebirth, Annihilation, when has he been knocked out? I think people are still clinging to his fts 10+ yrs ago. That glass jaw comment needs to drop because that is no longer the case anymore. I can't even remember the last time Surfer has been koed. how bout against the Black Panther a few years ago in a issue of F.F.?????

Originally posted by lawest9
how bout against the Black Panther a few years ago in a issue of F.F.?????

When was he koed? Also, you must didn't read the part where Surfer said he allowed Panther to do that?

Originally posted by carver9
When was he koed? Also, you must didn't read the part where Surfer said he allowed Panther to do that? man that was PRIDE talking, because given the circumstances WHY would he have allowed BP to that? He was just embarassed the way that fight went down, thats all. I could respect your argument more if you had pointed out that BP had just drained him of his pc.

Originally posted by lawest9
man that was PRIDE talking, because given the circumstances WHY would he have allowed BP to that? He was just embarassed the way that fight went down, thats all. I could respect your argument more if you had pointed out that BP had just drained him of his pc.


He let BP do that to find out the reason why Black Panther was on the mission he was on IIRC which was the reason Surfer asked a thousand questions while in this hold. Surfer told BP after this that he could have finished BP anytime hewanted. Serious question...did you read the comic after that scene?

Originally posted by carver9
He let BP do that to find out the reason why Black Panther was on the mission he was on IIRC which was the reason Surfer asked a thousand questions while in this hold. Surfer told BP after this that he could have finished BP anytime hewanted. Serious question...did you read the comic after that scene? Yes I read the comic after that scene and do not recall that conversation, unless it took place in another comic, also in earlier in that story he physically restrain SS with arm bar that he couldn't break loose from, threatening to break ss arm if he didn't stand down. So how many times did SS have to "let" him do that to learn to the reasoning behind his mission? Now I will tell you that I thought that fight was the biggest PIS writing that I've seen in years.

Originally posted by Dampyre
The Surfer is the most durable member of either team. He's had some bad moments but no more so than any of the others. I don't see how Orion is any more durable than Thor is. They are similar and far less indestructable than the Surfer. Indestructable surfer ??? Thor dented surfer's head with a headbutt Surfer's has a higher durability to piecering attacks but thats about it

Originally posted by Dampyre
Orion doesn't have a magic hammer to block PC blasts. He will be absorbing a lot more punishment than Thor usually does. The Surfer would work him if they went at it seriously. I won't even mention Darkseid:The Hunger. He can counter attack with the motherbox or his harness

Originally posted by Dampyre
Orion doesn't have a magic hammer to block PC blasts. He will be absorbing a lot more punishment than Thor usually does. The Surfer would work him if they went at it seriously. I won't even mention Darkseid:The Hunger.

Shields playa...

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Indestructable surfer ??? Thor dented surfer's head with a headbutt Surfer's has a higher durability to piecering attacks but thats about it

Pure PIS there. The Sufer has never been dented before, even against attacks from beingsfar more powerful than Thor like Thanos, Mrrungo Mu, Stranger and Tyrant. He takes beating from the Hulk(who is stronger than Thor) without a scratch. The Surfer is more impervious than Thor to ALL types of attacks, piercings, cold, heat, energy and blunt force. There's no doubt than Thor will show damage before the Surfer will. Thor is very tough though and can stand up to alot of punishment.

Anyone bring up that ridiculous head-butting thing is really, really desperate. All of Thor's hammer shots from Thor in that same issue didn't dent the Surfer or even truly harm him. Are you saying Thor's head is harder than his hammer. Judging by his intellect you would think so but it's not the case. Need I bring up some PIS showings of Thor's?

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Shields playa...

He'll need them to avoid a repeat of The Hunger.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Shields playa...

Astro Force can conjure up shields like he did to block the Omega Beams.

Originally posted by Dampyre
The Surfer is more impervious than Thor to ALL types of attacks, piercings, cold, heat, energy and blunt force This is a load of BS Thor's has shown to taking everything SS has with equal result Blast from celestrials, skyfather, blunt force Thro has even more showings, heat he has been in the sun and survive the fire for the phoenix and the cold from Ymir. SS is not more durable. Why coudl the head butt damage SS and the hammer not easy he hit didn't put the saem amount of force behind. THE ONLY thing Surfer has over Thor is speed anyone arguing otherwise is just a fanboy

Billy kills Thor. Then they high five and team up on Orion, who then proceeds to high five them instead.

Also, the Mother Box Shazam strat is assuming Billiam doesn't just Shazam back, move out of the way, or that it comes up at all.
In many ways it's like the Batman Cap fight. Where Batman kicked the magic out of him, and Willy still won.

Originally posted by Dampyre
Orion doesn't have a magic hammer to block PC blasts. He will be absorbing a lot more punishment than Thor usually does. The Surfer would work him if they went at it seriously. I won't even mention Darkseid:The Hunger.
Motherbox can absorb anything surfer can throw on orion. Orion can also dish out astro force which surfer can't absorb. Orion is a bad match up for surfer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Motherbox can absorb anything surfer can throw on orion. Orion can also dish out astro force which surfer can't absorb. Orion is a bad match up for surfer.

Didn't look like it from the last story we saw actually saw these 2 in. Team 2 wins.

Originally posted by Tar-Antado
Didn't look like it from the last story we saw actually saw these 2 in. Team 2 wins.
Because John Byrne is a hack. That was a younger, inexperienced orion to boot. Also crossovers aren't valid here.

Surfer stomps Orion but Thor waxes Orion. Toss up though I favor Thor due to blood and thunder story.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Surfer stomps Orion but Thor waxes Orion. Toss up though I favor Thor due to blood and thunder story. Orion does not do well here according to you

Billy watches from the sidelines then?

Surfer has a glass jaw? Heck, that must be some time ago, or some really oddl written storyline, as I remember Surfer being one of the most durable characters in comics, Marvel or DC (before and after Annihilation).

Still too close to call.

Originally posted by DTM
Surfer has a glass jaw? Heck, that must be some time ago, or some really oddl written storyline, as I remember Surfer being one of the most durable characters in comics, Marvel or DC (before and after Annihilation).

The Surfer having a glass jaw is pure nonsense.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
This is a load of BS Thor's has shown to taking everything SS has with equal result Blast from celestrials, skyfather, blunt force Thro has even more showings, heat he has been in the sun and survive the fire for the phoenix and the cold from Ymir. SS is not more durable. Why coudl the head butt damage SS and the hammer not easy he hit didn't put the saem amount of force behind. THE ONLY thing Surfer has over Thor is speed anyone arguing otherwise is just a fanboy

The Surfer has taken blasts from Galactus, Mrrungo Mu(at half-power), Stranger, Planet Gigo, Tyrant, The Other and more. I should note that in the Enslaver Arc, Mrrungo Mu knocked out Thor casually but had a prolonged battle with the Surfer. I should also note that if a being like Galactus really wanted to blast either Thor or Surfer with a shot or two they could do it. Oftentimes, they aren't using their full power when attacking herald-types.

I'm not sure how anyone can think that Thor is mre impervious to harm than the Silver Surfer. I would put Superman, Captain Marvel, Black Adam and others more durable as well. Now, are you honestly telling me that Thor put more force behind his headbutt than he did his charged-up Mjolnor shots? If so you shouldn't be calling anybody a fanboy. Not by a long shot.

The Surfer flies through stars like nothing and is completely impervious to cold. As a being who calls space home he HAS to be super-durable. His shell has only been damaged by cosmic entities if I'm not mistaken. There's no shame in being less durable than him.

Thor is a better fighter than the Surfer but he's in no way more durable, or even tougher than the Silver Surfer.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Motherbox can absorb anything surfer can throw on orion. Orion can also dish out astro force which surfer can't absorb. Orion is a bad match up for surfer.

I don't see it this way. Orion will be taking way more punishment than Thor. Do you really think Orion's Astro Glider is a better defense than Mjolnir against a PC blast from the Surfer?


And you know that the Surfer can't absorb or manipulate Orion's Astro Force because....?

Originally posted by Dampyre
I don't see it this way. Orion will be taking way more punishment than Thor. Do you really think Orion's Astro Glider is a better defense than Mjolnir against a PC blast from the Surfer?


And you know that the Surfer can't absorb or manipulate Orion's Astro Force because....?

Orion is the only one that can wield the Astro Force. It's basically an extension of him. It's anyones guess if Surfer can. Surfer's blasts will get deflected by his force fields, which easily deflected the Omega Beams.

Team 1.

Originally posted by Dampyre
The Surfer has taken blasts from Galactus, Mrrungo Mu(at half-power), Stranger, Planet Gigo, Tyrant, The Other and more. I should note that in the Enslaver Arc, Mrrungo Mu knocked out Thor casually but had a prolonged battle with the Surfer. I should also note that if a being like Galactus really wanted to blast either Thor or Surfer with a shot or two they could do it. Oftentimes, they aren't using their full power when attacking herald-types.

I'm not sure how anyone can think that Thor is mre impervious to harm than the Silver Surfer. I would put Superman, Captain Marvel, Black Adam and others more durable as well. Now, are you honestly telling me that Thor put more force behind his headbutt than he did his charged-up Mjolnor shots? If so you shouldn't be calling anybody a fanboy. Not by a long shot.

The Surfer flies through stars like nothing and is completely impervious to cold. As a being who calls space home he HAS to be super-durable. His shell has only been damaged by cosmic entities if I'm not mistaken. There's no shame in being less durable than him.

Thor is a better fighter than the Surfer but he's in no way more durable, or even tougher than the Silver Surfer. THe whole point of bringing up the head but is it is stupid to compare just like you saying SS is more durable then Thor on paper the only thing SS has on Thor is his combat speed and that is it.

Originally posted by Dampyre
I don't see it this way. Orion will be taking way more punishment than Thor. Do you really think Orion's Astro Glider is a better defense than Mjolnir against a PC blast from the Surfer?


And you know that the Surfer can't absorb or manipulate Orion's Astro Force because....?
Not at all. Motherbox can absorb surfer's attacks easily. Orion is the only one to wield astro force. It was a gift from The source as the "wrath of source". Not astro harness, motherbox.

Orion is the weak link.