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http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1502282-you_idiot_large.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/2352383-felicia_vs._shuma_gorath_large.jpg

Probably shuma.

Do those gods above have any cool feats?

Originally posted by Golgo13
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/1502282-you_idiot_large.jpg

vs

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/57606/2352383-felicia_vs._shuma_gorath_large.jpg
See, this is confusing.

Do you mean the gods listed in that pic? Some of them weren't even the Skyfathers of their respective pantheons. For example Izanami IS NOT the Shinto Skyfather, she's his wife. Also some of the others there, like King Baldur, weren't even High Herald Level (according to some posters).

So if it's Shuma against that group in the picture, then yes, he can win. Sh|t, Odin or Zeus would win too.

Now if you mean Shuma vs the Council of Godheads consisting of EVERY SKYFATHER in Earth's pantheons, Shuma gets stomped.

Shuma wins he is either the top of the elder god list or a low abstract level entity

Shuma for the tentacle r@pe stomp.

See, this is why Marvel's hierarchy annoys me.

How is Shuma supposed to conquer universes if it's even debatable whether or not he beats the gods of a single planet?

Originally posted by Cogito
See, this is why Marvel's hierarchy annoys me.

How is Shuma supposed to conquer universes if it's even debatable whether or not he beats the gods of a single planet? its zopzop's fault.

Originally posted by Cogito
See, this is why Marvel's hierarchy annoys me.

How is Shuma supposed to conquer universes if it's even debatable whether or not he beats the gods of a single planet?

It's not debatable at all, don't let Zop fool you. Shuma wrecks every time.

Originally posted by CortSether
It's not debatable at all, don't let Zop fool you. Shuma wrecks every time.

I'm not suggesting that Shuma loses, I'm just saying that the fact that an argument can be made is pathetic.

Originally posted by CortSether
It's not debatable at all, don't let Zop fool you. Shuma wrecks every time.
Prove it. Prove it by showing Shuma having anywhere the fights and feats of, say, Odin. And that's just one skyfather. Earth has 11 or 12 more.
Originally posted by Cogito
See, this is why Marvel's hierarchy annoys me.

How is Shuma supposed to conquer universes if it's even debatable whether or not he beats the gods of a single planet?
It's Marvel's stupidity. You have skyfather level beings like Odin wrecking GALAXIES and shacking the multiverse. And it's not just Shuma. Powerful demons with respectable levels of power that are supposed universe conquerors, like Dormammu, were stalemated by Odin (no Destroyer Armor or anything, they were fighting but it looked to Thor like a game of chess). Now imagine a demon going up against that PLUS 11 or 12 more of Odin's peers? They'd be FXXKED!

Keep in mind the TRUE Council of Godheads (comprising all of Earth's Skyfathers) isn't in the picture the OP posted. This is them :
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/godhed4.jpg
"God" save any demon attempting to beat that group.

Shuma was supposedly one of the Many-Angled Ones , the same beings who dwarfed the Galactus Engine's power , and some of whose lackeys killed Aegis .

Based on the implied power of the Many-Angled Ones in Thanos Imperative , Shuma could most definitely take this .

Apart from that , I am unaware of any feats that would put Shuma above skyfathers or other Elder Gods .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Shuma was supposedly one of the Many-Angled Ones , the same beings who dwarfed the Galactus Engine's power , and some of whose lackeys killed Aegis .
Uhm, Surfer KILLED Aegis AND Teneberous. Not to mention that repeated blows by them couldn't KO Surfer, whereas Odin ONE SHOTTED HIM.




And it's not only feats. He has that ONE decent feat, the voodoo doll Earth but that was also his greatest humiliation as it was used against him. He was wrecked but the Earth survived just fine. And he was never really the same after that fight. It's actually the FIGHTS that count. He has NONE on panel vs anyone worth mentioning. Compare that to the likes of Dormammu, Set, Surtur, Mephisto/Satannish, etc.. who actually have gone up against other major demons, abstracts, and gods.

Originally posted by zopzop

Uhm, Surfer KILLED Aegis AND Teneberous. Not to mention that repeated blows by them couldn't KO Surfer, whereas Odin ONE SHOTTED HIM.

I was talking about the Abstracts' battle at the Fault .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I was talking about the Abstracts' battle at the Fault .
Yes, two of those same "Abstracts" (Tenerberous and Aegis) were killed by Surfer. He also was conscious after REPEATED attacks from them, whereas Odin ONE SHOTTED him.

Originally posted by Cogito
See, this is why Marvel's hierarchy annoys me.

How is Shuma supposed to conquer universes if it's even debatable whether or not he beats the gods of a single planet? Those gods live in there own dimensions/ pocket universe.

Just because they are earth gods doesnt mean planatary power.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Those gods live in there own dimensions/ pocket universe.

Just because they are earth gods doesnt mean planatary power.

Thank you

You've helped my understanding immensely...

Originally posted by Cogito
Thank you

You've helped my understanding immensely... You welcome, but thats common knowledge

Originally posted by zopzop
Yes, two of those same "Abstracts" (Tenerberous and Aegis) were killed by Surfer. He also was conscious after REPEATED attacks from them, whereas Odin ONE SHOTTED him.
He killed them by using the powers of the Crunch .

Odin has one-shotted Thor as well , yet Thor managed to chip of a Celestial's armor , and survived multiple Celestial blasts in Thor 300 . Based on you logic Odin>>>>Celestials , when that clearly isn't the case .

Anyways , the point is that the Many-Angled Ones(there were 4 in total IIRC)supposedly dwarfed the power of the Galactus Engine based on the Shiar readings(if indeed those were the MAOs that were coming out of the Fault after the GE was dispatched) . The same Galactus Engine which forced a host of Celestials to retreat and brought a non-jobbing Galactus to his limits .

It took an at least universal level Abstract to cripple them , and even her power didn't permanently put them down .

Based on this implied level of power , Shuma takes this with ease .

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
You welcome, but thats common knowledge facepalm2

Does those obscure gods above have any feats?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
He killed them by using the powers of the Crunch .

Odin has one-shotted Thor as well , yet Thor managed to chip of a Celestial's armor , and survived multiple Celestial blasts in Thor 300 . Based on you logic Odin>>>>Celestials , when that clearly isn't the case .

Anyways , the point is that the Many-Angled Ones(there were 4 in total IIRC)supposedly dwarfed the power of the Galactus Engine based on the Shiar readings(if indeed those were the MAOs that were coming out of the Fault after the GE was dispatched) . The same Galactus Engine which forced a host of Celestials to retreat and brought a non-jobbing Galactus to his limits .

It took an at least universal level Abstract to cripple them , and even her power didn't permanently put them down .

Based on this implied level of power , Shuma takes this with ease .
Implied power means d|ck. Show me fights and feats of Shuma doing anything remotely impressive then we can talk.

Regarding your Thor/Odin/Celestials example, it was clearly PIS in Thor's favor but even with that amount of PIS, Thor still managed to do nothing vs the Celestials (the exact opposite of the Surfer/T&A showdown). If I'm not mistaken, they failed to put down the Surfer in one shot on TWO separate occasions and Surfer by himself staggered them with his power (compare this to his fight with Odin).

Originally posted by zopzop
Implied power means d|ck. Show me fights and feats of Shuma doing anything remotely impressive then we can talk.

Regarding your Thor/Odin/Celestials example, it was clearly PIS in Thor's favor but even with that amount of PIS, Thor still managed to do nothing vs the Celestials (the exact opposite of the Surfer/T&A showdown). If I'm not mistaken, they failed to put down the Surfer in one shot on TWO separate occasions and Surfer by himself staggered them with his power (compare this to his fight with Odin).
In Round 1 Aegis alone KOed the Surfer . In Round 2 , Norrin lured them into the Crunch and then channeled its power through his own body to defeat them . That's essentially universe-destroying power that he was channeling through his form at that point . Sometimes you lowball just for lowballing's sake .

Anyways this entire point about Surfer, T&A and who killed who is moot since the Celestials were among those "Abstracts" as well , whom the Galactus Engine was owning . The Cancerverse incident implied the MAOs as being superior to 616's low level Abstracts like the Celestials , considering how an entity below their power forced those Abstracts to retreat .

Based on this alone , Shuma should win this thread . Otherwise I am not familiar with any of the character's feats that would put it beyond skyfathers to contend with .

Shuma is the god of hyperbolic statements and implied power.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
In Round 1 Aegis alone KOed the Surfer . In Round 2 , Norrin lured them into the Crunch and then channeled its power through his own body to defeat them . That's essentially universe-destroying power that he was channeling through his form at that point . Sometimes you lowball just for lowballing's sake .

Anyways this entire point about Surfer, T&A and who killed who is moot since the Celestials were among those "Abstracts" as well , whom the Galactus Engine was owning . The Cancerverse incident implied the MAOs as being superior to 616's low level Abstracts like the Celestials , considering how an entity below their power forced those Abstracts to retreat .

Based on this alone , Shuma should win this thread . Otherwise I am not familiar with any of the character's feats that would put it beyond skyfathers to contend with .
I vaguely remember that fight, but didn't they attack him MULTIPLE TIMES before putting Surfer down? Surfer by himself managed to make Aegis flinch from one of his attacks. It took Surfer AND Thanos attacking Odin simultaneously for it to register on Odin.

Your unfamiliarity with the character shows. He barely has "trans" level mage feats under his belt (ie Earth voodoo doll), let alone fights against respected Gods, demons, abstracts. Some of his most recent appearances have writers telling us he has a "vertigo weakness"!
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Shuma is the god of hyperbolic statements and implied power.
I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not but that statement is 100% true.

I'm dead serious.

I really don't have anything against Shuma, but really, I have a hard time seeing him as an "abstract" being, let alone elder god in power and not just status/title.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm dead serious.

I really don't have anything against Shuma, but really, I have a hard time seeing him as an "abstract" being, let alone elder god in power and not just status/title.
I haven't even seen him do something Skyfather level, let alone Elder God level. His Earth Voodoo doll spell was something Trans Level Mage Characters could pull off.

Originally posted by zopzop
I haven't even seen him do something Skyfather level, let alone Elder God level. His Earth Voodoo doll spell was something Trans Level Mage Characters could pull off.


Pre-crisis Fate or Shuma. Who wins?

Fate.

Shuma or Odin?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Pre-crisis Fate or Shuma. Who wins?
Don't know enough about Dr. Fate to really have an opinion on this.
Originally posted by Golgo13
Shuma or Odin?

Odin.

Odin.

Odin's got the advantage of really great on panel feats in addition to absurd hyperbolic statements and implied power.

lol at anyone thinking Odin is in Shuma's league.

Originally posted by CortSether
lol at anyone thinking Odin Shuma is in Shuma's Odin's league.

Keep being delusional Zop. It's entertaining as heck.

Originally posted by zopzop
I vaguely remember that fight, but didn't they attack him MULTIPLE TIMES before putting Surfer down? Surfer by himself managed to make Aegis flinch from one of his attacks. It took Surfer AND Thanos attacking Odin simultaneously for it to register on Odin.
Aegis took out Surfer , while Tenebrous was dealing with Galactus , and then the 2 of them tag-team comboed Galen .
Originally posted by zopzop

Your unfamiliarity with the character shows. He barely has "trans" level mage feats under his belt (ie Earth voodoo doll), let alone fights against respected Gods, demons, abstracts. Some of his most recent appearances have writers telling us he has a "vertigo weakness"!

I already admitted that I am unfamiliar with Shuma's feats . However to see the implication of the MAOs' power in Thanos Imperative , and still lowball Shuma while ignoring that incidence , reeks of bias and personal vendetta against the character .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Aegis took out Surfer , while Tenebrous was dealing with Galactus , and then the 2 of them tag-team comboed Galen .
Yeah, it took her TWO HITS to do it and this was when T&A took Galactus and Surfer by surprise, they weren't expecting an attack.
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/5903/aegisone.th.jpg http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1003/aegistwo.th.jpg

Odin needed only one hit and he was being distracted by Thanos.



Genius, wtf did Shuma Gorath do on panel in Thanos Imperative? Nothing right? How do you know how powerful the MAOs are individually? What if they are powerful only in vast numbers? Show me how powerful a "common" member of their race is, then let's compare him to how powerful Gorath is.

Originally posted by zopzop

Genius, wtf did Shuma Gorath do on panel in Thanos Imperative? Nothing right? How do you know how powerful the MAOs are individually? What if they are powerful only in vast numbers? Show me how powerful a "common" member of their race is, then let's compare him to how powerful Gorath is.
He did nothing , which is why I keep mentioning "implied power" . You have already dismissed implied power as "bullsh1t" and "d|ck" , so why even bother continuing this discussion ?

The MAOs were "larger and more powerful" than the Galactus Engine , based on the Shiar readings . That's enough to tell me that in that arc they could have mollywhopped the Abstract assemblage that was fighting the GE .
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/ti-09-10.jpg

Based on that type of implied power , Shuma should definitely take this . Based on actual combat feats , the Council would probably win , as I am not too familiar(something I have already admitted multiple times in this thread) with Shuma's feats .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
He did nothing , which is why I keep mentioning "implied power" . You have already dismissed implied power as "bullsh1t" and "d|ck" , so why even bother continuing this discussion ?

The MAOs were "larger and more powerful" than the Galactus Engine , based on the Shiar readings . That's enough to tell me that in that arc they could have mollywhopped the Abstract assemblage that was fighting the GE .
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff240/Branlactus/Fights%202/Cancerverse%20War/ti-09-10.jpg

Based on that type of implied power , Shuma should definitely take this . Based on actual combat feats , the Council would probably win , as I am not too familiar(something I have already admitted multiple times in this thread) with Shuma's feats .
Why don't you answer my question? How powerful is the "average" or "common" member of the MAOs? How does it compare to Shuma Gorath?

Originally posted by zopzop
Why don't you answer my question? How powerful is the "average" or "common" member of the MAOs? How does it compare to Shuma Gorath?
If you're referring to the Old Ones(Kthl , Yot-Soter , Shuma-Gorath , Nyerlathortech) , then , apart from being the bonafide leaders of the cancerverse's chthonic deities , they are supposedly the most powerful of the MAOs , as their power being invoked by Marvell , transmuted the Cancerverse-IG into the Necropsy Blade .

Based on the Shiar readings , they were "larger and more powerful" than the Galactus Engine .

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
If you're referring to the Old Ones(Kthl , Yot-Soter , Shuma-Gorath , Nyerlathortech) , then , apart from being the bonafide leaders of the cancerverse's chthonic deities , they are supposedly the most powerful of the MAOs , as their power being invoked by Marvell , transmuted the Cancerverse-IG into the Necropsy Blade .

Based on the Shiar readings , they were "larger and more powerful" than the Galactus Engine .
Where was it stated they were the most powerful? As opposed to those specifically responsible for the Necropsy ritual?

Originally posted by zopzop
Where was it stated they were the most powerful? As opposed to those specifically responsible for the Necropsy ritual?
They(including Shuma) WERE the ones who were invoked in the Necropsy Ritual .
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh79/lorrdraiden/Thanos_Imperative.jpg

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
They(including Shuma) WERE the ones who were invoked in the Necropsy Ritual .
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh79/lorrdraiden/Thanos_Imperative.jpg
Yeah I know. I'm just asking how you reached your conclusion that just because their names were mentioned in the Ritual that they were the leaders of their entire race and/or the most powerful of their species?

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah I know. I'm just asking how you reached your conclusion that just because their names were mentioned in the Ritual that they were the leaders of their entire race and/or the most powerful of their species?
Were the names of any others mentioned during the ritual ?

That was the way they were portrayed . There were 7 named MAOs , out of which there were 4 Masters(the Old Ones) and 3 lesser Ones(The Gatekeeper , The Baby God , The Brain-Ship) .

LOL @ Odin being able to beat Shuma