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Loki in the The destroyer vs WBH
Pis off. Cis off.

Both are strong and incredibly durable.

But I give it to the destroyer 7/10

Who's animating the Destroyer ?

It can fight on its own, can't it?

I edited it. Loki in the destroyer

It took Odin to stop that version of the Destroyer .

Really? Maybe I was underestimating destroyer. Lol

The armor easily wins this

Originally posted by armedforbattle
Really? Maybe I was underestimating destroyer. Lol
The scans are there in his Respect Thread . I am not aware of any other appearances of Loki-Destroyer , so I can't comment on how this battle will go down .

Destroyer.

Hulk

Finally!

physically- hulk has a strength advantage to the point it would be one-sided. come at me

destroyer has a lot more powers, though and loki is one of the best users of the armour, stacking his own powers and mind onto it.

The Destroyer wins eventually. Even if the Hulk is stronger he can't damage the armor. Meanwhile, the Destroyer will wear the Hulk down with its' massive EP and eventually get the KO or kill.

Destroyer just as strong and powerful as hell regardless who is operating the armor, Maestro had no exipernce with the armor and he thrashed the Hulk, same thing happen in Thor Vol.2 1 when a average human controlled the armor and killed Thor.

Hulk is one dimensional compare to the Destroyer which vastly versatile, the armor can outright kill the Hulk if there is no PIS.

Destroyer with Loki animating should win this handily.

I don't think the Destroyer Armor can be physically harmed...

At all.

I don't see Hulk winning this at all.

Hulk obliterates the Destroyer.
Professor Hulk was going toe-to-toe with it whilst Maestro was in charge of it. A more powerful Hulk would have ripped it to shreds.

Regular Green Scar would be more than a match for the armour, WBH levels is spite against the armour.

Hulk's muscles are too big.

Hulk 10/10

Destroyer.....destroys him.

Originally posted by janus77
Hulk obliterates the Destroyer.
Professor Hulk was going toe-to-toe with it whilst Maestro was in charge of it. A more powerful Hulk would have ripped it to shreds.

Regular Green Scar would be more than a match for the armour, WBH levels is spite against the armour.

Pretty sure it was savage from the anger issues and the way he was amping. And the destroyer utterly shamed him. Maestro even said he let him get mad so his power increased. Then he got a lasrer though the chest and put down in 4 hits.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Pretty sure it was savage from the anger issues and the way he was amping. And the destroyer utterly shamed him. Maestro even said he let him get mad so his power increased. Then he got a lasrer though the chest and put down in 4 hits. In his own comic. lol

lol @ Hulk being spite against the armor, let alone animated by Loki.

Did you expect anything less from janus?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol @ Hulk being spite against the armor, let alone animated by Loki. Who has bigger muscles of the two?

Originally posted by Mindset
Who has bigger muscles of the two?

Loki, obviously. Guy's jacked.

Fanboy.

Read a comic, bro.

Why?

I can just google pictures of both fighters and see Hulk wins.

That's how I base all my decisions.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol @ Hulk being spite against the armor, let alone animated by Loki. everything asgardian is crumbling, jake, even the stuff in your heart is falling apart by the day.

look to the green light

I remember the first time my world got flipped turned upside down, but it's ok because I became the Prince of Bel-Air.

Destroyer smash

Originally posted by psycho gundam
everything asgardian is crumbling, jake, even the stuff in your heart is falling apart by the day.

look to the green light

I'll never turn to the dark side. I am a Thor fan, like my father before me.

You've failed, your highness.

http://i1099.photobucket.com/albums/g386/psychogundam1/gifs/jules2.gif

I could only see Hulk beating the destroyer, if Pak was writing it.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'll never turn to the dark side. I am a Thor fan, like my father before me.

You've failed, your highness. That's interesting to hear. What his age currently and how did he take it to Avengers portrayal of Thor?

he beat the destroyer under someone other than pak

WBH wins. In general he has better feats quite frankly and strengthwise quite a bit of an advantage. He is also far far more durable than either savage or Prof Hulk ( as seen from his complete no selling of Armcheddon, Wendigo and Bi Beast simultaneous attacks as well as surviving his collision with Betty despite its cataclysmic effects on everything else) with an obviously far far faster healing factor as well which means he wont be going down as easily to the destroyers attacks

WBH wins

See this is what happens when certain characters (or artifacts in this case) get too much exposure. From it's history, the Destroyer was never meant to be defeated by Trans level characters. Just saying.

I don't see Hulk having the physical power to destroy the Destroyer. Could he manhandle it physically? Sure, Thor can effect it with physical force and knock it around. No reason why Hulk can't. Physically damaging it though is something else.

That's without factoring in Loki's power stacked on top of the DA, which has the ability to harm trans and skyfather level beings on its own.

Originally posted by vansonbee
I could only see Hulk beating the destroyer, if Pak was writing it.
That's interesting to hear. What his age currently and how did he take it to Avengers portrayal of Thor?

Twas a Star Wars related joke.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I don't see Hulk having the physical power to destroy the Destroyer. Could he manhandle it physically? Sure, Thor can effect it with physical force and knock it around. No reason why Hulk can't. Physically damaging it though is something else.

That's without factoring in Loki's power stacked on top of the DA, which has the ability to harm trans and skyfather level beings on its own.


The problem lies in inconsistencies. If a Herald level character can compromise the armor of a Celestial, or fracture Galactus' helmet, then it only becomes logical that they could harm the Destroyer. Whatever though. Overexposure is what messes up things, because Guy X has to have a great first appearance, so writers place them against last years formidable Guy X and things like America's Shield get torn apart.

It's not that I can't see the Hulk damaging the Destroyer by the way he was written up during HOTM, it's just that a guy at his level isn't supposed to. Then again Thor at base levels wasn't supposed to be able to harm a Celestial.

Destroyer easily.

Hulk can't do a thing to win.

The outcomes obvious




Hulk takes his pants off, wraps them around his fist and then shatters the Armor

I Can See Hulk Winning At Least..

Drax crushes him.

Oh wait, this isn't about Drax?

Drax still crushes him.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Drax crushes him.

Oh wait, this isn't about Drax?

Drax still crushes him.


I doubt Drax would be able to beat Wendigo.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I don't see Hulk having the physical power to destroy the Destroyer. Could he manhandle it physically? Sure, Thor can effect it with physical force and knock it around. No reason why Hulk can't. Physically damaging it though is something else.

That's without factoring in Loki's power stacked on top of the DA, which has the ability to harm trans and skyfather level beings on its own.

Hmm how durable do u feel the Destroyer Armor is generally? Cause i respect the Armors durability but im not sure ive seen anything to make me believe that it would come out in goodshape after a prolonged direct beating from HOTM hulk who had the..... mere residual shockwaves of his physical impacts hundreds of metres in the air disintegrating peers of Savage Hulk/Merged Hulk and even his superiors (Armcheddon) as well as the entire race of mindless ones whose combined numbers couldnt even be put down by a skyfather/demonlord in their own realm.

Durabilitywise/healing factor wise, I could see WBH being in the fight a long time and keep recovering (WWH was healing almost instantly from having multiple holes punched through him and he is way inferior). The esoteric route could be more effective for the destroyer however and Loki animating it could defintely serve some purpose.

The Destroyer can literally beat Hulk down, Savage got schooled by Mastero who was controlling the armor, and it wasn't even fazed by the Hulk amp strength. Destroyer using it full abilities, will reduce Hulk to a pile of green sh**.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Hmm how durable do u feel the Destroyer Armor is generally? Cause i respect the Armors durability but im not sure ive seen anything to make me believe that it would come out in goodshape after a prolonged direct beating from HOTM hulk who had the..... mere residual shockwaves of his physical impacts hundreds of metres in the air disintegrating peers of Savage Hulk/Merged Hulk and even his superiors (Armcheddon) as well as the entire race of mindless ones whose combined numbers couldnt even be put down by a skyfather/demonlord in their own realm.

Durabilitywise/healing factor wise, I could see WBH being in the fight a long time and keep recovering (WWH was healing almost instantly from having multiple holes punched through him and he is way inferior). The esoteric route could be more effective for the destroyer however and Loki animating it could defintely serve some purpose.

Mortal powered destroyer no sold a point blank antiforce. And his "most powerful" storm. Thor has never actually been able to hurt the destroyer that I know of actually. He's kncoked it back, turned it's head, yadda yadda but nothing lasting. Bfr has been his ace,

The wreckers crowbar shattered on impact with it, no sold hercules' punches, easily took an amping savage Hulk's assault etc. Some stuff off the top of my head.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Mortal powered destroyer no sold a point blank antiforce. And his "most powerful" storm. Thor has never actually been able to hurt the destroyer that I know of actually. He's kncoked it back, turned it's head, yadda yadda but nothing lasting. Bfr has been his ace,

The wreckers crowbar shattered on impact with it, no sold hercules' punches, easily took an amping savage Hulk's assault etc. Some stuff off the top of my head.


But none of those guys are anywhere near as powerful as WB Hulk is in terms of hitting power. WB Hulk would not notice the Wrecker either.

Originally posted by Stoic
But none of those guys are anywhere near as powerful as WB Hulk is in terms of hitting power. WB Hulk would not notice the Wrecker either.

Agreed on wrecker.

Don't sleep on Thor's striking power though. He was breaking parts of mangog off with the hits the destroyer shrugged off.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Agreed on wrecker.

Don't sleep on Thor's striking power though. He was breaking parts of mangog off with the hits the destroyer shrugged off.

In terms of feats do you believe that Mangog of The Mighty Thor #23-25 was superior to WB Hulk in the striking power dept? WB Hulk was leaking power, and dealing with characters that could and would give Thor a very good fight in a H2H battle like they were fleas... If that. I notice when a flea bites, Class 100 hits did not even register to WB Hulk. you read it, so I'm not telling you anything that's new.

Originally posted by Stoic
In terms of feats do you believe that Mangog of The Mighty Thor #23-25 was superior to WB Hulk in the striking power dept? WB Hulk was leaking power, and dealing with characters that could and would give Thor a very good fight in a H2H battle like they were fleas... If that. I notice when a flea bites, Class 100 hit did not even register to WB Hulk. you read it, so I'm not telling you anything that's new.

Are you asking just to ask? Cuz I was talking about Thor's striking power, not mangogs. But anyway, no I don't believe Mangog exclusively from that arc to have superior striking power to WBH.

I doubt he couldn't even feel that hits. He no sold them no doubt, but it's not like he was unaware of the attacks. If we use that same flea example, I don't make any noticeable grimace or movement when bitten by a flea either.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Hmm how durable do u feel the Destroyer Armor is generally? Cause i respect the Armors durability but im not sure ive seen anything to make me believe that it would come out in goodshape after a prolonged direct beating from HOTM hulk who had the..... mere residual shockwaves of his physical impacts hundreds of metres in the air disintegrating peers of Savage Hulk/Merged Hulk and even his superiors (Armcheddon) as well as the entire race of mindless ones whose combined numbers couldnt even be put down by a skyfather/demonlord in their own realm.

Durabilitywise/healing factor wise, I could see WBH being in the fight a long time and keep recovering (WWH was healing almost instantly from having multiple holes punched through him and he is way inferior). The esoteric route could be more effective for the destroyer however and Loki animating it could defintely serve some purpose.

If i remember right destroyer is more durable then Mjolnir as the spikes on its fists grooved mjolnir. I don't think anyversion of Hulk could even dent the destroyer let alone cause major damage

Destroyer Armor is significantly above Mjolnir in terms of durability normally.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Mortal powered destroyer no sold a point blank antiforce. And his "most powerful" storm. Thor has never actually been able to hurt the destroyer that I know of actually. He's kncoked it back, turned it's head, yadda yadda but nothing lasting. Bfr has been his ace,

The wreckers crowbar shattered on impact with it, no sold hercules' punches, easily took an amping savage Hulk's assault etc. Some stuff off the top of my head.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6627724

Originally posted by carver9
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6627724

'Nuff said.

Originally posted by carver9
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6627724 Iron Fist did the same thing. God jokes aside, he isn't scratching Mjolnir, let alone the even more durable Destroyer.

Just saying.

All jokes aside, suck my dick, galan.

Originally posted by Mindset
All jokes aside, suck my dick, galan. marwash can have my turn.

Originally posted by Galan007
marwash can have my turn. There are no turns.

There is just you sucking my hog.

Originally posted by carver9
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=6627724

What was that supposed to prove?

HULK IS SUPER STRONG!

Duh.

I refuse to believe the hulk has any form of supsrstrength.

That is why you will never be a man.

Don't make me kill you rapist.

You're 1000 years too early to be thinking about challenging me, boy.

You'll have one last chance to beg for my mercy and become my herald. Take the offer.http://images.killermovies.com/forums/customsmilies/uhuh.gif

Here's my counter offer.

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/PETE-CAMPBELL-KTFO.gif

Originally posted by Damborgson
Are you asking just to ask? Cuz I was talking about Thor's striking power, not mangogs. But anyway, no I don't believe Mangog exclusively from that arc to have superior striking power to WBH.

I doubt he couldn't even feel that hits. He no sold them no doubt, but it's not like he was unaware of the attacks. If we use that same flea example, I don't make any noticeable grimace or movement when bitten by a flea either.


You haven't gotten bitten by an adult flea then. You can feel their bites most of the time. I hate those little bastards.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Destroyer Armor is significantly above Mjolnir in terms of durability normally.

Does that prove that Mjolnir's durability grows in proportion to the amount of Odin Force that Thor possesses?If not then it makes no sense to me how the construct was ever beheaded. I mean if you chuck a glass at a steel wall, the glass will break, and not the steel wall. it also does away with the Destoryer being indestructible.

Originally posted by Mindset
Here's my counter offer.

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/PETE-CAMPBELL-KTFO.gif

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq8mkqJMBV1qh066ho1_500.gif

this isn't over. Not by a long shot.

Originally posted by Stoic
You haven't gotten bitten by an adult flea then. You can feel their bites most of the time. I hate those little bastards.



Pretty sure I have. I've lived in Mexico. Maybe we're just tougher down there.

http://www.limitstogrowth.org/WEB-Graphics/MexicoSombreroMan-s.jpg

Or you're the Hulk.

This is me:

Originally posted by Damborgson

http://www.limitstogrowth.org/WEB-Graphics/MexicoSombreroMan-s.jpg

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
You're the Hulk.

Originally posted by Stoic
Does that prove that Mjolnir's durability grows in proportion to the amount of Odin Force that Thor possesses?If not then it makes no sense to me how the construct was ever beheaded. I mean if you chuck a glass at a steel wall, the glass will break, and not the steel wall. it also does away with the Destoryer being indestructible.

Mjolnir can be further amplified with the Odin Force, yes. It's why an inexperienced King Thor is able to dent Captain America's armor with Mjolnir and Thor conventionally cannot. Under normal circumstances, Mjolnir will be chipped/damaged/destroyed far sooner than the Destroyer Armor will be.

King Thor's Durok Dropper Mjolnir toss is all the more impressive considering he not just slagged the Destroyer Armor with it, but overpowered a being who siphoned off godly energies to begin with.

And this is just considering the Armor normally. With Loki animating it, he can also call upon his own sorcery to augment the Armor or doing shit like being able to fly, cast illusions, etc.

Well it's not really a low feat to get your ass beaten by the Destroyer. It was written to compete or even crush a Sky Father, and I did not see the Hulk as a Sky Father, but more in line with a Trans level character. But, I still have my doubts for some reason. The Hulk at those levels could have waded through the myriad Dark Gods that the Destroyer was able to do, albeit it was not Loki within the suit.

Little off subject though, Madison Jeffries should be written to somehow come into posession of the suit.

No argument there on being beaten by the DA not being a low feat.

Odin himself felt the best case in dealing with the Destroyer was to stop time and remove the soul animating it. I have no doubt he could have destroyed it if he was so inclined, but he saw the usefulness in the construct and likely didn't feel like expending the kind of energy needed to destroy it.

I think Hulk could take a fair deal of punishment from a Loki-Destroyer before ultimately falling.

Works for me. The Disintegration ray is a serious weapon.

Destroyer smash puny Hulk.

By feats Hulk wins this.
He has the strength to damage the Destroyer very well
He has the durability to withstand the attacks of a Destroyer
Get educated on Hulk's feat.

Nuff said.

I'm a huge hulk fan but i'd like to challenge the notion that hulk can damage the destroyer. Any panel proof?

Originally posted by dynamix
I'm a huge hulk fan but i'd like to challenge the notion that hulk can damage the destroyer. Any panel proof?

I'd be more interested to know why you believe that he could not. This entire thread hinges on proof of whether the Hulk at that point could muster enough strength to actually damage something that has been damaged in the past. Which is why I'm sort of on the fence concerning the entire subject.

Several questions has me wondering if it would be possible. Red She Hulk at base punched through a dimensional barrier. The Hulk has too at a much lower level. The Hulk smashed through beings that Umar was incapable of ridding herself, and Umar in her realm is quite the power house. There is a scene that many argue that the Hulk and Betty leveled the Dark Dimension with an in air collision, while other believe it to only be a planet and a couple of moons that were destroyed. Either one of those feats are impressive, when considering that they weren't directly attacking the planets. having the ability to go without noticing that he was being wailed on by class 100's that would give Thor at base a good fight is another example.

I'm trying to understand why the Destroyer would not be damaged by this kind of might, or how strong he would have to be in order to damage it. Thor slagged it while being on a higher level after all, so why couldn't the Hulk do the same at a much higher level than he ever has been on?

I can't bring myself to believe he can harm the destroyer because he's never done it. Unless he did and i was unaware of, i can only go with what's shown, at this point lol. I actually bought and read that issue (havent bought comic books in A LOOOONNG TIME!) with the "Wish" and really was awed by the co-display and i think it make sense to think that hulk might have what it take to do damage to the armor. Which leads me to another thing, has anybody who is NOT of magical nature ever harmed the Destroyer? Your statement on Thor being able to harm the armor got me curious and i can only surmise that it was due to Thor's magical nature...something Hulk probably doesn't have in his arsenal at the time being. But if magic isn't necessary to hurt the Destroyer, i think Hulk has a good shot of doing it based on that arc. I'm skeptic though, cause the Armor was made to stand up to the Celestials (it didnt do too well though, lol). Hulk during that arc can be categorize as trans tier which mean he's still levels below Celestials. But with his ever growing power level, it might happen down the road.

"The Celestial Flame" was a weapon built to stand up to The Celestials, Savage Hulk destroyed it.


Destroyer doesn't last long, maybe a few panels, nothing more.

Originally posted by janus77
"The Celestial Flame" was a weapon built to stand up to The Celestials, Savage Hulk destroyed it.


Destroyer doesn't last long, maybe a few panels, nothing more.
Unlike the Destroyer , the Celestial Flame was never put up against the Celestials to confirm such a claim .

Originally posted by dynamix
I can't bring myself to believe he can harm the destroyer because he's never done it. Unless he did and i was unaware of, i can only go with what's shown, at this point lol. I actually bought and read that issue (havent bought comic books in A LOOOONNG TIME!) with the "Wish" and really was awed by the co-display and i think it make sense to think that hulk might have what it take to do damage to the armor. Which leads me to another thing, has anybody who is NOT of magical nature ever harmed the Destroyer? Your statement on Thor being able to harm the armor got me curious and i can only surmise that it was due to Thor's magical nature...something Hulk probably doesn't have in his arsenal at the time being. But if magic isn't necessary to hurt the Destroyer, i think Hulk has a good shot of doing it based on that arc. I'm skeptic though, cause the Armor was made to stand up to the Celestials (it didnt do too well though, lol). Hulk during that arc can be categorize as trans tier which mean he's still levels below Celestials. But with his ever growing power level, it might happen down the road.


I'm not entirely sure what a Celestial is, but I'm betting against them being magical in nature, but more of a cosmic flavor. They slagged the Destroyer, so my point is just to say that i don't believe that it is only susceptible to being damaged magical attacks alone. The Hulk is technically a cosmic character due to the gamma rays that he houses within him. Gamma rays come from stars so....

Also you brought up a good point. The Forgotten Ones are as magical as they come, and the Hulk was breaking them apart by the ranks. Umar could not do this and employed the Hulk to push them far enough back that she could resume business as usual. These same creatures nearly killed the Merged Hulk in the past, and that version of the Hulk knocked a full sized Abomination off his feet with one punch, and he was only the size of a mouse when he did it. WB Hulk was far superior to Merged Hulk, I mean the gap in comparison was pretty wide.

Destroyer shitstomps.

If it used it Beam Hulk died very quickly, if it gets physical lasts a short while but doesn't do any damage and gets beat down far far worse then what he did against Zeus.

Two different power levels in concerns to the level that the Hulk was on, and when he was in the Dark Dimension, so what you may suggest as an absolute, really isn't one. Also if Thor was able to beat the Destroyer by beheading, what makes you think that Zeus could not do the same? Thor beat the Destroyer when it housed a more powerful being than Loki. Something to factor in.

Did not read the Hulk dribble

Originally posted by Damborgson
Mortal powered destroyer no sold a point blank antiforce. And his "most powerful" storm. Thor has never actually been able to hurt the destroyer that I know of actually. He's kncoked it back, turned it's head, yadda yadda but nothing lasting. Bfr has been his ace,

The wreckers crowbar shattered on impact with it, no sold hercules' punches, easily took an amping savage Hulk's assault etc. Some stuff off the top of my head.

I know of those feats, and they are no doubt impressive but
again durabilitywise, they are nothing that WBH himself could not do, or has not exceeded,

Furthermore WBH packs way way more of a wallop than any of those attacks u mentioned (even indirectly) which is why im not willing to make the fallacious logical leap and claim that the destroyer holds up indefinitely. IMO to win, it would have to get really esoteric, and have to avoid a physical confrontation because the strength gap would leave it largely on the defensive and unlike Hulk it doesnt have a healing factor repairing damage almost as quickly as it gets inflicted

Then continue being the childish idiot that you are well known to be. I knew that I should have ignored you. And the word is drivel, if you're going to attempt to be witty, try not to make yourself look like an idiot in the process.

God lord I've already said too much. Don't feed the troll is my new motto. Must remember this in the future.

Originally posted by Stoic
Then continue being the childish idiot that you are well known to be. I knew that I should have ignored you. And the word is drivel, if you're going to attempt to be witty, try not to make yourself look like an idiot in the process.

God lord I've already said too much. Don't feed the troll is my new motto. Must remember this in the future.


Don't know why you replied to him. You know he hates Hulk, you know no matter what, he will vote against Hulk, you was just giving him a reason to bash. I have him on ignore, you might want to do the same.

Blah blah crying because the vast majority of the board who has sense say Hullk loses without having to makes shut up to try and get the Hulk the win.

This thread got stunk up the minute either of you gave Hulk the win .

Destroyer wins

Originally posted by Naija boy
I know of those feats, and they are no doubt impressive but
again durabilitywise, they are nothing that WBH himself could not do, or has not exceeded,

Furthermore WBH packs way way more of a wallop than any of those attacks u mentioned (even indirectly) which is why im not willing to make the fallacious logical leap and claim that the destroyer holds up indefinitely. IMO to win, it would have to get really esoteric, and have to avoid a physical confrontation because the strength gap would leave it largely on the defensive and unlike Hulk it doesnt have a healing factor repairing damage almost as quickly as it gets inflicted

I don't see WBH no selling what Thor hit the destroyer with personally. The anti-force, and the utter pounding it withstood while animated by a mortal is no small feat. I could see Hulk quickly healing of course to the point where it wouldn't be shown, but the damage should show initially.

Well not indefinetely of course. But what could hold up indefinitely to WBH? What the destroyer needs to do is hold enough to get the forum win, and it very well could.

Depends how you see it. Thor's staggered and hurt a lot of amazingly powerful beings with that hammer.

The gap in strength could be made up by the raw power the destroyer possesses. It's blasts have broken Mjolnir, and it's fists have grooved it. Not to mention it's disintegration beam is capable of killing Thor with one exposure to it.

If Loki felt like saying "I'll teach you mortal to mess with me" and slugged it out, yeah Hulk will win. But using striking wisely, energy, illusions, etc, I'd give it to the destroyer.

If Nul can brush off repeated Mjlonir strikes from a Thor that is trying to kill him, WBH shouldn't even be phased by Thor charged hammer strikes imo.

Originally posted by carver9
If Nul can brush off repeated Mjlonir strikes from a Thor that is trying to kill him, WBH shouldn't even be phased by Thor charged hammer strikes imo.
For Thor to be capable of effecting WBH with hammer shots, he would need to pack significantly greater force than the combined might of Arm'Chedon, Bi Beast and classic Wendigo. Hulk ignored them as if they weren't even there before he went Worldbreaker. The 3 of them together one-shotted Bannertech shields, these same shields have stood up to Dr Doom, Hulk himself, Juggernaut, Skaar etc etc.

The Destroyer is going to have it's work cut out, and the limits of it's durability are going to be seriously tested.

The Destroyers armor is at least as strong as Uru, possibly stronger, so I dont think Hulk can even dent him, let alone beat him in a fight.

Good point Sorrow. We've seen what Armaggedon power did to two elites.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/Armcheddoneasilyhandlingprofhulk2.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/ArmcheddoneasilyhandlingprofHUlk4.jpg

But he was unable to even give WBH pause let alone damage him.

Originally posted by Damborgson
I don't see WBH no selling what Thor hit the destroyer with personally. The anti-force, and the utter pounding it withstood while animated by a mortal is no small feat. I could see Hulk quickly healing of course to the point where it wouldn't be shown, but the damage should show initially.

Well not indefinetely of course. But what could hold up indefinitely to WBH? What the destroyer needs to do is hold enough to get the forum win, and it very well could.

Depends how you see it. Thor's staggered and hurt a lot of amazingly powerful beings with that hammer.

The gap in strength could be made up by the raw power the destroyer possesses. It's blasts have broken Mjolnir, and it's fists have grooved it. Not to mention it's disintegration beam is capable of killing Thor with one exposure to it.

If Loki felt like saying "I'll teach you mortal to mess with me" and slugged it out, yeah Hulk will win. But using striking wisely, energy, illusions, etc, I'd give it to the destroyer.

Well i dont doubt that even WBH has less hard durability than the destroyer but his Hf more than makes up for that in terms of damage soak which is why i see him outlasting the armor.The destroyers feats are impressive but nothing i saw Thor dish out was as powerful as what WBH is packing or even within the same ballpark really (anitforce included).

On the other hand unlike Hulk once the destroyer gets damaged it doesnt have a healing factor of similar strength. Even if the destroyer was capable of sending holes through hulk with every blast (which considering Odin force Thor tanked the beam, is NOT likely) hulk would literally be healing almost as fast as the wounds open and would not really be slowed down by such attacks.

Originally posted by DTM
The Destroyers armor is at least as strong as Uru, possibly stronger, so I dont think Hulk can even dent him, let alone beat him in a fight.


It's actually much stronger than base Uru, as is Mjolnir, but it turns out that it is also stronger than Mjolnir itself. Just wanted to get the facts straight. I'm still undecided on this battle though. However, I don't see a stomp happening on either side of the field.

Would you consider Nul hammer "base" Uru Stoic?

Originally posted by Naija boy
Well i dont doubt that even WBH has less hard durability than the destroyer but his Hf more than makes up for that in terms of damage soak which is why i see him outlasting the armor.The destroyers feats are impressive but nothing i saw Thor dish out was as powerful as what WBH is packing or even within the same ballpark really (anitforce included).

On the other hand unlike Hulk once the destroyer gets damaged it doesnt have a healing factor of similar strength. Even if the destroyer was capable of sending holes through hulk with every blast (which considering Odin force Thor tanked the beam, is NOT likely) hulk would literally be healing almost as fast as the wounds open and would not really be slowed down by such attacks.

HF's can only take so much. Even the best like Wolverine's and Hulk's. The HF would be the reason the fight would drag out pretty much, but I don't see it at all unlikely to believe,

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsThanos02.jpg

^ the antiforce was plenty powerful. Thanosi may not have been Thanos, but they were as close they get basically. The destroyer no sold it. While possessed by a mortal. The destroyer also stood up to Odinforced empowered Zelia's creation which was a combination of the entire Dark god army iirc. The fact that Loki substantially powers the armor more is bordering on ridiculous.

That is assuming Hulk will damage it though. The Hulk's nature in and of itself is what guarantees that he will eventually break it. But the durability it posses ensures it wouldn't be any time soon, and most certainly not before Loki used the destroyers' power against Hulk.

That would be the Balder Destroyer though. Who at the time was also possessed by his mortal form. That would have still been more of a testament to OF Thor's durability than it would a low showing for the armor.

I'd bet money on him being substantially slowed by attacks that are considerably > To the ones that Barbequed Classic Thor. I'd bet also that the beams capable of splitting Mjolnir would be superior to what the Hulk has faced. In the end it would come down to me to whether Loki finishes him (which would be within his capability) or plays with him, and finds himself getting overwhelmed. Overall, the destroyer should take it. And that the Hulk is even causing doubt of the outcome is something I'd never have thought of back in the day.

Originally posted by carver9
Would you consider Nul hammer "base" Uru Stoic?

No because it had an enchantment on it. It's the enchantments that make the weapons more powerful, and there is proof that a being possessing more of the power that enchanted the weapons themselves, allows for the weapons to become more durable, as well as fire off more powerful shots.

Loki would not or should not make a difference in the durability of the Destroyer, because he does not possess the Odin Force.

Originally posted by Damborgson
I'd bet money on him being substantially slowed by attacks that are considerably > To the ones that Barbequed Classic Thor. I'd bet also that the beams capable of splitting Mjolnir would be superior to what the Hulk has faced. In the end it would come down to me to whether Loki finishes him (which would be within his capability) or plays with him, and finds himself getting overwhelmed. Overall, the destroyer should take it. And that the Hulk is even causing doubt of the outcome is something I'd never have thought of back in the day. Nicely said.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsThanos02.jpgI'm glad I'm not a Freudian.

First of all we should gauge strength of materials by feats and power of attacks by feats.

There is no good evidence that Destroyer armor can withstand the strength of WBH if we go by feats for both. The armor has no feats of tanking attacks above the forces WBH exerted.

There is good evidence that WBH can withstand (at least heal fast from) attacks from Destroyer is we go by feats for both (even one's where Destroyer split Mjolnir). Mjolnir has no feats of durability that shows it is more than a million or even a thousand times more durable than Savage Hulk and his peers.

Originally posted by h1a8
First of all we should gauge strength of materials by feats and power of attacks by feats.

There is no good evidence that Destroyer armor can withstand the strength of WBH if we go by feats for both. The armor has no feats of tanking attacks above the forces WBH exerted.

There is good evidence that WBH can withstand (at least heal fast from) attacks from Destroyer is we go by feats for both (even one's where Destroyer split Mjolnir). Mjolnir has no feats of durability that shows it is more than a million or even a thousand times more durable than Savage Hulk and his peers.

Well then by all means, Go ahead an prove that the Hulk at that level could damage the material that the Destroyer is composed of. We know that it is not impossible to damage it but can the Hulk match or exceed the power that damaged it?

Stupid fight.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well then by all means, Go ahead an prove that the Hulk at that level could damage the material that the Destroyer is composed of. We know that it is not impossible to damage it but can the Hulk match or exceed the power that damaged it?

The proof requires some axioms first

A1: Durability of a material is not greater than against the attacks it went against on panel, unless the character comments on how it felt (like Juggs saying it almost tickled).

A2: The strength or power of an attack is not greater than what it was shown to be on panel.

These axioms are to prevent speculation and fanboy argumentation (Odin wins because he's a freaking skyfather).

Here are some relevant questions.

What was Destroyer's greatest feat of durability?
In that feat concerning the attack on the Destroyer, what is the greatest feat that attack achieved on panel elsewhere in comics? We need to know both.

What was WBH's greatest feat of durability?
What was WBH's greatest feat of strength and power?

Does those two feats prove that WBH can damage Destroyer while withstanding the attacks of Destroyer?

The answer: Hell yes!

Proof: WBH's durability is more than a million of times that of the force that can disintegrate Savage Hulk. This proves he can withstand the Destroyer's attacks well.

WBH's strength is greater than what Destroyer has endured on panel. Thus he can damage it well.

Originally posted by Damborgson
HF's can only take so much. Even the best like Wolverine's and Hulk's. The HF would be the reason the fight would drag out pretty much, but I don't see it at all unlikely to believe,

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsThanos02.jpg

^ the antiforce was plenty powerful. Thanosi may not have been Thanos, but they were as close they get basically. The destroyer no sold it. While possessed by a mortal. The destroyer also stood up to Odinforced empowered Zelia's creation which was a combination of the entire Dark god army iirc. The fact that Loki substantially powers the armor more is bordering on ridiculous.

That is assuming Hulk will damage it though. The Hulk's nature in and of itself is what guarantees that he will eventually break it. But the durability it posses ensures it wouldn't be any time soon, and most certainly not before Loki used the destroyers' power against Hulk.

That would be the Balder Destroyer though. Who at the time was also possessed by his mortal form. That would have still been more of a testament to OF Thor's durability than it would a low showing for the armor.

I'd bet money on him being substantially slowed by attacks that are considerably > To the ones that Barbequed Classic Thor. I'd bet also that the beams capable of splitting Mjolnir would be superior to what the Hulk has faced. In the end it would come down to me to whether Loki finishes him (which would be within his capability) or plays with him, and finds himself getting overwhelmed. Overall, the destroyer should take it. And that the Hulk is even causing doubt of the outcome is something I'd never have thought of back in the day.

This isnt WWHs Hf we are talking about, this the Hf of WBH, a character that was shown to be far far above (exponentially) even WWH. Hulks Hf like his durability is proportional to his anger/strength level and thus WBH Hf as well as durability was far far above even WWHs. The potency of his hf/durability induced damage soak was then demonstrated in his tanking unscathed being at the centre of a collision whose residual shockwave, virtually disintergrated (which takes far far far more force than knocking out that same person would) peers of Savage Hulk in the form of Wendigo and Bi Beast, a highly amped fing fang foom, Armcheddon (superior to both Wendigo and bi beast), and the entirety of the race mindless ones who were in conjunction so powerful that Umar (a legit skyfather leveler) couldnt survive let alone put them all down (which makes this feat even more insane). Thats besides mentioning that it took out the dark dimension (which to counter claims of weak matter, also included the realm of the mindless ones where matter is actually denser than on earth and which is also in totality larger than earth as well). WBH was at the epicentre of that collision which means that he experienced several orders of magnitude more force than in the shockwave that did the aforementioned damage...unscathed. His hf getting maxed out in this match highly highly unlikely

The antiforce is no doubt powerful but taking out a Thanosi does not put it at WBH level of output. Thanosis were generally lacking in several areas compared to the real Thanos which is what made Thanos give up on them (see their fights against Kazar and Prof Hulk and Xman). The destroyer standing up to that Dark God creation attack was really impressive ill give you that but again here we have him going up against a prolonged assault not just one attack. I definitely see it getting damaged in the duration of this match.

Regarding the balder destroyer, while less powerful ive seen nothing to suggest that it is leagues below a Loki empowered destroyer. And while Odinforce Thor tanking its beam is not a low feat (neither was i suggesting it was), in terms of physicality, WBH>>Odinforce Thor and featwise it can even be really argued.

WBH is not even in the same ballpark as classic Thor in terms of physicality. When you add in his HF (which classic Thor does not posess) they should quite frankly not even be mentioned in the same sentence in that regard. And so while barbecuing classic Thor is once again impressive, it does not follow that the beam (even from Loki empowered destroyer) would have even close to the same effect. Beams that can split mjolnir in half are categorically NOT above anything WBH has faced...not by a long shot (i have no doubt that if mjolnir was at the epicentre of that collision it would have been broken to pieces). The destroyer isnt putting WBHulk down quickly and the longer the fight goes the better it is for WBHulk. Its best bet is to go esoteric if it can and attempt to bypass the physical route. If this was typical Hulk then the destroyer would take it pretty easy but this isnt typical Hulk, this Paks WBH who he feat whored the hell out of. The divergence in power is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Naija boy
WBH was at the epicentre of that collision which means that he experienced several orders of magnitude more force than in the shockwave that did the aforementioned damage...unscathed. His hf getting maxed out in this match highly highly unlikely

hmm.. Was he really unscathed? After Armcheddon tells Tyrannus "I wished for him to suffer as I suffer"..Tyrannus answers with, "You'll suffer all that he does... Fighting, burning, and reforming... Trapped for an eternity in a never-ending battle..." That's all due to the wishing well.

Originally posted by Naija boy
This isnt WWHs Hf we are talking about, this the Hf of WBH, a character that was shown to be far far above (exponentially) even WWH. Hulks Hf like his durability is proportional to his anger/strength level and thus WBH Hf as well as durability was far far above even WWHs. The potency of his hf/durability induced damage soak was then demonstrated in his tanking unscathed being at the centre of a collision whose residual shockwave, virtually disintergrated (which takes far far far more force than knocking out that same person would) peers of Savage Hulk in the form of Wendigo and Bi Beast, a highly amped fing fang foom, Armcheddon (superior to both Wendigo and bi beast), and the entirety of the race mindless ones who were in conjunction so powerful that Umar (a legit skyfather leveler) couldnt survive let alone put them all down (which makes this feat even more insane). Thats besides mentioning that it took out the dark dimension (which to counter claims of weak matter, also included the realm of the mindless ones where matter is actually denser than on earth and which is also in totality larger than earth as well). WBH was at the epicentre of that collision which means that he experienced several orders of magnitude more force than in the shockwave that did the aforementioned damage...unscathed. His hf getting maxed out in this match highly highly unlikely

The antiforce is no doubt powerful but taking out a Thanosi does not put it at WBH level of output. Thanosis were generally lacking in several areas compared to the real Thanos which is what made Thanos give up on them (see their fights against Kazar and Prof Hulk and Xman). The destroyer standing up to that Dark God creation attack was really impressive ill give you that but again here we have him going up against a prolonged assault not just one attack. I definitely see it getting damaged in the duration of this match.

Regarding the balder destroyer, while less powerful ive seen nothing to suggest that it is leagues below a Loki empowered destroyer. And while Odinforce Thor tanking its beam is not a low feat (neither was i suggesting it was), in terms of physicality, WBH>>Odinforce Thor and featwise it can even be really argued.

WBH is not even in the same ballpark as classic Thor in terms of physicality. When you add in his HF (which classic Thor does not posess) they should quite frankly not even be mentioned in the same sentence in that regard. And so while barbecuing classic Thor is once again impressive, it does not follow that the beam (even from Loki empowered destroyer) would have even close to the same effect. Beams that can split mjolnir in half are categorically NOT above anything WBH has faced...not by a long shot (i have no doubt that if mjolnir was at the epicentre of that collision it would have been broken to pieces). The destroyer isnt putting WBHulk down quickly and the longer the fight goes the better it is for WBHulk. Its best bet is to go esoteric if it can and attempt to bypass the physical route. If this was typical Hulk then the destroyer would take it pretty easy but this isnt typical Hulk, this Paks WBH who he feat whored the hell out of. The divergence in power is ridiculous.

awesome reply!

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
hmm.. Was he really unscathed? After Armcheddon tells Tyrannus "I wished for him to suffer as I suffer"..Tyrannus answers with, "You'll suffer all that he does... Fighting, burning, and reforming... Trapped for an eternity in a never-ending battle..." That's all due to the wishing well. he said arm'cheddon will suffer the effects of hulk fighting as his wish backfired

The Destroyer uppercuts Hulk's gamma taint off

Originally posted by Naija boy
This isnt WWHs Hf we are talking about, this the Hf of WBH, a character that was shown to be far far above (exponentially) even WWH. Hulks Hf like his durability is proportional to his anger/strength level and thus WBH Hf as well as durability was far far above even WWHs. The potency of his hf/durability induced damage soak was then demonstrated in his tanking unscathed being at the centre of a collision whose residual shockwave, virtually disintergrated (which takes far far far more force than knocking out that same person would) peers of Savage Hulk in the form of Wendigo and Bi Beast, a highly amped fing fang foom, Armcheddon (superior to both Wendigo and bi beast), and the entirety of the race mindless ones who were in conjunction so powerful that Umar (a legit skyfather leveler) couldnt survive let alone put them all down (which makes this feat even more insane). Thats besides mentioning that it took out the dark dimension (which to counter claims of weak matter, also included the realm of the mindless ones where matter is actually denser than on earth and which is also in totality larger than earth as well). WBH was at the epicentre of that collision which means that he experienced several orders of magnitude more force than in the shockwave that did the aforementioned damage...unscathed. His hf getting maxed out in this match highly highly unlikely

The antiforce is no doubt powerful but taking out a Thanosi does not put it at WBH level of output. Thanosis were generally lacking in several areas compared to the real Thanos which is what made Thanos give up on them (see their fights against Kazar and Prof Hulk and Xman). The destroyer standing up to that Dark God creation attack was really impressive ill give you that but again here we have him going up against a prolonged assault not just one attack. I definitely see it getting damaged in the duration of this match.

Regarding the balder destroyer, while less powerful ive seen nothing to suggest that it is leagues below a Loki empowered destroyer. And while Odinforce Thor tanking its beam is not a low feat (neither was i suggesting it was), in terms of physicality, WBH>>Odinforce Thor and featwise it can even be really argued.

WBH is not even in the same ballpark as classic Thor in terms of physicality. When you add in his HF (which classic Thor does not posess) they should quite frankly not even be mentioned in the same sentence in that regard. And so while barbecuing classic Thor is once again impressive, it does not follow that the beam (even from Loki empowered destroyer) would have even close to the same effect. Beams that can split mjolnir in half are categorically NOT above anything WBH has faced...not by a long shot (i have no doubt that if mjolnir was at the epicentre of that collision it would have been broken to pieces). The destroyer isnt putting WBHulk down quickly and the longer the fight goes the better it is for WBHulk. Its best bet is to go esoteric if it can and attempt to bypass the physical route. If this was typical Hulk then the destroyer would take it pretty easy but this isnt typical Hulk, this Paks WBH who he feat whored the hell out of. The divergence in power is ridiculous.


Well duh, the thread is about WBH. But that doesn't take away from what I said. I have no doubt on the intensity of the power that WBH possessed. I've reviewed the comics many times. Here are some disagreements I have though:

Mindless ones are generally considered fodder. There is no getting around the fact that they are broken from everything ranging to WBH to fire hydrants hitting them. Their one "feat" that people like to base their durability on a skrull talking about how they resisted a neutron star and were able to mine on them or something similar. Here is everything that is wrong with that: 1. Nothing stands on a neutron star. They spin 300 times per second approximately. 2. Nothing resists the gravity of a neutron star. Even if they were somehow magically placed on it the force of impact would be enough to level worlds. Seeing as how an object the size of a marshmellow dropped from approximately 6 feet would carry the power of and produce a blast the size of a nuclear explosion when the neutron star is hit. Everything that could make that some sort of feat is flawed, and I doubt the writer even knew what a neutron star is. They typically don't examine things as closely as we do on forums and probably thought it sounded cool. So breaking mindless ones even while it was a shockwave that did it isn't something to really get all pepped up about in my opinion. And that Umar somehow couldn't do it, I'd chalk up to PIS. She is a legit skyfather afterall. WBH in all his glory is still trans at best.

also the mindless ones didn't get any favors from the dark dimension: http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/mind/DrStrangeSorcerersupre50-11.jpg


Another issue: No, the whole dimension did not get destroyed. Thats positively laughable. Umar said "hello destroyers of my dimension" and people just ook off running. It'd have been figurative more than anything else. There was litterally nothing besides that comment that would suggest that the whole dimension went splat. Which is why I'm against the idea that WBH died at any point during that ordeal. We never saw him die or reform at any point, and comments that suggest it are not enough. That said, it goes the same for the other part. He broke a planet, killed the mindless ones, bi-beast, wendigo, armageddon, etc. But that was the extent. There is absolutely no reason to try and make it better than it was. To try that hurts the feat more than it helps and it becomes reaching. If the Hulk were destroying dimensions with the impact of power, of course I'd agree he mangles the destroyer. But he did not. So we have to work with what was given.


Now, The destroyer would be hitting him harder than anyone did in HOTM. Wendigo is a non factor. Fists that can groove Mjolnir are not. Mjolnir has resisted stuff much, much, much more powerful than what the Hulk did. It's destroyed portals that dwarf stars (which caused an explosion that in turn dwarfed the portal) and emerged unscathed. As well as blocked energy from sky fathers without damage. It's durability is without a doubt beyond the measure of getting hurt by the Hulk's impact.

I think it's reasonable to infer that throughout the Hulks' history, despite the power level, there has always been something that can tax his hf enough to where it cannot hold up. The destroyer has the power do that in my opinion. Especially when powered by Loki, who knows how to use the destroyer much better than typical mortals and gives it his own powers on top of that. After a certain point it's know that the destroyer gains power due to the host that inhabits it. Which is why the Balder destroyer was not as impressive as the Loki Destroyer or Thor destroyer were or other mortalk fair even lower and are to weak to stay in the destroyer even f the armor is completely unscathed. Thor has battered the destroyer and knocked a piddly mortal soul out of it before. Even if the armor didn't have a scratch on it. That is not the case with characters like Loki though/ (and yes I know you weren't lowballing or anything, It's just something I felt like putting in the last post)

Thor's durability is very much in that ball park. Hulk has better damage soak no doubt, (it's not comparable) but what classic Thor has resisted is nothing short of incredible without a prominent healing factor. Current showings aside, a few months of low showings do not strip away decades that have made Thor the top hero in Marvel. THAT SAID I agree that the destroyers beam would not have the same effect on WBH that it did on Thor. I do stick by though that the Hulk would be fazed. Seeing as how it was only a flash of the visor opening that Killed Thor, and not an extended attack. There was a flash of light and when the avengers turned to see, Thor was dead. Loki has the option to keep that visor open. As well as imply attacks that would slice through Mjolnir like butter, and therefore the Hulk as well. Mjolnir could have been at the epicenter of that attack in HOTM and emerged unscathed. Of that I have no doubt from what Mjolnir has taken in the past.

It doesn't matter if it's more than one attack though really. The attack that the combined might of the dark gods unleashed is a ridiculous amount of power. It was endangering Odins life (weakened Odin, but still) without a direct hit. That is true durability. The destroyer walked away intact from that fight as well. And i see it frankly as being above what the Hulk could do. Sure, Hulk can break the destroyer. But honestly, with his power set eventually anything will break. Loki isn't stupid though. He know when to end things before they are beyond his control, and at the beginning of the fight, I have no doubt things very much would be in his control. He also doesn't particularly like extended fights unless they cause pain to Thor. He'd be out to kill from the start pretty much.

Like I said Thanosi are not Thanos. Of this there is no doubt, but their durability (especially that one who was about as close it got to the real deal) is comparable. It wasn't a rejected clone like warrior Thanosi who was incredibly strong but also had a limited mind. It was about as close to success as Thanos got iirc.

Yes I agree Pak whored the hell out of it. I never though of writing posts like these against the Hulk if I was arguing in favor of the destroyer. He was exceptionally thorough in trying to take away any blood savage Hulk had on his hands also. (Amadeus Cho the little bastard)

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
The Destroyer uppercuts Hulk's gamma taint off the pants make that impossible

Originally posted by psycho gundam
the pants make that impossible Destroyer punches him out of his pants first, duh.

Then Loki creates a Hulk's pants armor.

Savage hulk is pretty weak if two people at his level and one above him get incinerated by a shockwave which destroys a planet and damages a moon slightly.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Savage hulk is pretty weak if two people at his level and one above him get incinerated by a shockwave which destroys a planet and damages a moon slightly.

Of course you would lowball. Remember, Black Adam ripped Amazo head off, the same Amazo that stomped the entire JLA. Do the math.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Savage hulk is pretty weak if two people at his level and one above him get incinerated by a shockwave which destroys a planet and damages a moon slightly. not in every category, and strength was only because hulk didn't kill on purpose.

carver probably was the one to say they were in his class anyway

lol successful troll is successful.

Originally posted by carver9
Of course you would lowball. Remember, Black Adam ripped Amazo head off, the same Amazo that stomped the entire JLA. Do the math.
It wasn't the same Amazo. Read a comic.

Originally posted by carver9
Of course you would lowball. Remember, Black Adam ripped Amazo head off, the same Amazo that stomped the entire JLA. Do the math.
Not the same amazo genius. Batman and nightwing beat one too.Originally posted by psycho gundam
not in every category, and strength was only because hulk didn't kill on purpose.

carver probably was the one to say they were in his class anyway
Not the way naija is glorifying the feat. What energy attacks durability feats wendigo, Bi-beast and Armcheddon have anyway? I recall armcheddon as an energy manipulator and blasting type of guy. Also this is just herochat type of argument.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not the same amazo genius. Batman and nightwing beat one too.
Not the way naija is glorifying the feat. What energy attacks durability feats wendigo, Bi-beast and Armcheddon have anyway? I recall armcheddon as an energy manipulator and blasting type of guy. Also this is just herochat type of argument.

Lowballer...we don't even have to use those 3, this should suffice.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/MindlessonesNeutron.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
Lowballer...we don't even have to use those 3, this should suffice.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/MindlessonesNeutron.jpg

Yes...the hulk hits greater than the power of neutron stars.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Yes...the hulk hits greater than the power of neutron stars. In the same arc they were getting smashed by Nova iirc...

But yes, Hulk does.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not the same amazo genius. Batman and nightwing beat one too.
Not the way naija is glorifying the feat. What energy attacks durability feats wendigo, Bi-beast and Armcheddon have anyway? I recall armcheddon as an energy manipulator and blasting type of guy. Also this is just herochat type of argument. i personally don't think the blast applies to anyone else but amr'cheddon since he's able to humble both surfer and prof hulk simultaneously, then fight surfer toe to toe.

the real thing is that one blow from WB was enough to vaporize them and the planet they were on from an indirect punch.... savage hulk had to actually beat them down the old fashioned way.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
In the same arc they were getting smashed by Nova iirc...

But yes, Hulk does.

http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/?action=view%A4t=Mindlessonesnearlyindestructible-1.jpg

Originally posted by Damborgson
Yes...the hulk hits greater than the power of neutron stars.

He is the one asking for Energy fts. I never said that Hulk hits with that amount of force but abhi sucks.

Originally posted by carver9
Lowballer...we don't even have to use those 3, this should suffice.

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/MindlessonesNeutron.jpg
Pak obviously doesn't know that little throw-back comment.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i personally don't think the blast applies to anyone else but amr'cheddon since he's able to humble both surfer and prof hulk simultaneously, then fight surfer toe to toe.

the real thing is that one blow from WB was enough to vaporize them and the planet they were on from an indirect punch.... savage hulk had to actually beat them down the old fashioned way.
Yeah, but he didn't do much against surfer. He just made surfer absorb more energy than he could handle and downed him momentarily while blasting merged hulk who was in savage banner mode then IIRC. Surfer didn't fight armcheddon after that IIRC, he just postured saying I. AM. POWER or something like that. Yeah, that's something from pak's wet dreams but the wanking of the feat is amusing. Hulk and betty destroyed a planet and damaged a moon by the shockwaves of their punches and the same shockwave killed wendigo, Bi-beast and Armcheddon alongside numerous fodder mindless ones. Hugely impressive but as usual hugely wanked.

Originally posted by carver9
He is the one asking for Energy fts. I never said that Hulk hits with that amount of force but abhi sucks.
Not the same genius. I can show you parademons working in apokolips' firepits which are 10 times hotter than sun and then some random hero beating them.

Originally posted by carver9
http://s287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/?action=view%A4t=Mindlessonesnearlyindestructible-1.jpg Sorry, I meant shotguns:
Originally posted by the ninjak
Shotguns.

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae259/the_ninjak/Nextwave_8-11.jpg

And BOOM BOOM trying to spell her name out for MachineMAn.

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae259/the_ninjak/Nextwave_8-14.jpg

LOLZ I luv Boom Boom.

Umm its still debatable if thats canon or not but yeah Mindless ones durability fluctuates carver knows and ignores this fact

Originally posted by iceman24567
Umm its still debatable if thats canon or not but yeah Mindless ones durability fluctuates carver knows and ignores this fact Originally posted by SuperiorTech
A more clear example then.


http://thumbnails22.imagebam.com/14798/52d382147970004.jpg

Bran you realize carver has seen all that before and continues to ignore it right?

Originally posted by iceman24567
Bran you realize carver has seen all that before and continues to ignore it right? Yes, but I'm a bigger arsehole than the people who showed it to him the first time

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yes, but I'm a bigger arsehole than the people who showed it to him the first time Glad you realize this

OOriginally posted by carver9
He is the one asking for Energy fts. I never said that Hulk hits with that amount of force but abhi sucks. k

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Yes, but I'm a bigger arsehole than the people who showed it to him the first time


The first scan wasn't canon and the scans I showed you were recent portrayals of the characters. It also helps that Umar who is walking around with Dormammu powers and is in complete control of the Dark Dimension couldn't even stop the Mindless Ones. You are clearly trying to lowball the characters.

On panel, Umar couldn't stop the Mindless Ones.


http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll121/kingaholu/Hulk%20feats/MindlessonesUmarwontsurvivethem-1.jpg

Recent portrayals and stop trying to ignore whats said on panel.

So if we can only use recent portrayals, how is it we sometimes use Savage Hulk destroying countless dimensions with his punches?

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So if we can only use recent portrayals, how is it we sometimes use Savage Hulk destroying countless dimensions with his punches?

Ive never used that as a showing for any recent Hulks BUT it has been shown on panel that WWH/WBH>>>>>Savage Hulk. When that is pretty much made plain and clear, using Savage fts, a weaker Hulk isnt wrong at all.

Originally posted by carver9
Ive never used that as a showing for any recent Hulks BUT it has been shown on panel that WWH/WBH>>>>>Savage Hulk. When that is pretty much made.plain and clear, using Savage fts, a weaker Hulk isnt wrong st all.
Fair enough. Am only dipping into and out of this thread, carry on.

Is Nextwave even canon ?

Originally posted by Damborgson

Mindless ones are generally considered fodder. There is no getting around the fact that they are broken from everything ranging to WBH to fire hydrants hitting them. Their one "feat" that people like to base their durability on a skrull talking about how they resisted a neutron star and were able to mine on them or something similar. Here is everything that is wrong with that: 1. Nothing stands on a neutron star. They spin 300 times per second approximately. 2. Nothing resists the gravity of a neutron star. Even if they were somehow magically placed on it the force of impact would be enough to level worlds. Seeing as how an object the size of a marshmellow dropped from approximately 6 feet would carry the power of and produce a blast the size of a nuclear explosion when the neutron star is hit. Everything that could make that some sort of feat is flawed, and I doubt the writer even knew what a neutron star is. They typically don't examine things as closely as we do on forums and probably thought it sounded cool. So breaking mindless ones even while it was a shockwave that did it isn't something to really get all pepped up about in my opinion. And that Umar somehow couldn't do it, I'd chalk up to PIS. She is a legit skyfather afterall. WBH in all his glory is still trans at best.

also the mindless ones didn't get any favors from the dark dimension: http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Marvel%20Comics/mind/DrStrangeSorcerersupre50-11.jpg


Much to address here. Firstly, the mindless ones durability DOES fluctuate, but they certainly more than one feat. They have instances of being unharmable to even classic strange to even Umar herself in the past commenting on their near indestructability which gives an extremely strong precedent for the claims made in HOTM. Furthermore, your denigration of the neutron star feat is virtually enitrely based on your determination that the impressiveness of the feat was lost on the writer and that it should thus be discarded. Disregarding a feat because it violates your preconceived notion of what characters should be capable of withstanding, while in clear contradiction to the authorial intent of the writer is extremely faulty and whimisical argumentation. Particularly when we are discussing a medium that relies routinely on the use of such fantastical (and indeed some times illogical) displays in order to emphasize character attributes. The amount of feats that could be discarded on such reasoning would be huge i. While definitely a faulty argument, this is still tangential to the main argument since i didnt even reference that feat in order to try to aggrandize the mindless ones. I am simply assessing them by what was actually contained and mentioned regarding them within HOTM.

The pertinent point u seem to be missing is the importance of the numbers of the mindless ones in determining the impressiveness of Hulks feat. Even taking the lower portrayals of the mindless ones they have always been a threat to the skyfather level Dormammu and Umar in their enitrety, because of their huge numbers. Destroying one mindless one might be easy depending on their portrayal. However, destroying thousands? millions? billions or more? that becomes much harder because in order to do that you would have to output whatever amount of force is needed to destroy one, times the astronomical number of mindless ones that there are. This can either be released progressively (by killing them one at a time) or simultaneously (all at once like hulk did). In the case of a simultaneous destruction, if the amount of force needed to kill one mindless one (regardless of portrayal level) is spread over more than one of them, then the force per unit volume/mass is less on each individual mindless one and thus the blast would have less effect on each individually than it would if there were just one. Translate that to the HOTM feat, and we had Hulks residual shockwave ( a minute fraction of the force at the epicentre) producing force capable of wrecking the entirety of the mindless ones simultaneously, whose numbers were so great that Umar could not even survive them let alone put them all down (simultaneously or otherwise). A proper understanding of this shows why that part of the feat is absolutely insane (the most impressive part by far) and without taking this into account, you are underselling it big time. Labelling it PIS that it was mentioned that Umar wouldnt survive is more whimisical argumentation that further defies established on panel precedents/history since the mindless ones due to their numbers have historically been huge threats to Umar and Dormammu and have had to be put behind a barrier as opposed to being completely eradicated.

Furthermore, attempting to assess the potency of WBHs feat in this scenario but limiting it within the context of a superimposed label (trans), and thereby adjudging Umars inability to perform the feat as PIS due to her superior superimposed label of skyfather..... is fallacious and clear circular reasoning. Your conclusion(it is PIS), is assumed in your premises (WBH is trans and Umar is skyfather) as the implication is that a "trans" level character can in no case perform what a skyfather fails to do(which is false). It is the near equivalent of downgrading Thors great performance against the celestials because Odin is a skyfather and should thus outperform Thor, making his failure to do so PIS. WBH being labelled trans (especially due to limited scope abilities and lack of versatility) does not take away from the gravity of his depicted output on panel and, his outperforming Umar in that scenario.

Lastly on this, The dark dimensional matter may have been weaker but that effect doesnt apply to the mindless ones themselves nor any other characters within it btw. Not to mention the dimension of the mindless ones (which was combined with the dark dimension) is actually made up of denser material than earth



Ok i probably should have put Dark dimension planet (as i normally do) in my earlier post. Whether Pak portrayed the entire dark dimension as a planet, or just showed a planet as part of the dark dimension is really irrelevant to my core contention and im happy to stick with the former. All that we know definitively is that WBH destroyed a planet that was the combination of the Dark Dimension throneworld and realm of the mindless ones. Thats fine by me and i wont contend otherwise.



As evidenced by the more detailed explanation i gave above, No it would not. Mjolnir has gotten broken by much much less forces than Hulks impact quite frankly. Im not sure of this portal feat that you are referencing but id like to see it and the context so that i know how much it can really be assesed as a durability feat. Then we would have to weigh it against the times mjolnir has been broken by forces demonstrably weaker than whatever this feat is. Moreover blocking energy is impressive but not exactly an effective gauge since it would obviously depend on the level of exertion of the skyfather (since even the likes of Surfer and Thor have taken hits from skyfathers with varying degrees of success and im sure you wouldnt at all call them unharmable to WBH impact output). Moreover if the blocking was a means of absorbing it (not saying it was but id like to see it), then it is not really a durability feat at all.

I do recall WWHulks HF getting taxed by Zeus. That was a far far weaker Hulk against a character more powerful than the destroyer. The former cannot serve as a precedent for the latter. When we then take into account the magnitutde of the forces Hulk endured, the whole Hf getting maxed out line of reasoning falls apart and is shown to have little basis in on panel reality. I know that the destroyer does gain power after a certain point in relation to the spirit that empowers it and even acknowledge that a Loki empowered one would be stronger than a balder empowered one. My contention is that the gap has NOT been shown to be gargantuan in the case of Loki and balder and dont think that can actually be substantiated with any form of on panel evidence.



Thors durability is not in the same ballpark as WBHs unless we take a few isolated high showings ignoring the consistent. Im not even looking at his current string of atrocious mishaps as I accept that he does have high herald level durability on average obviously but WBH tops that (cannot at all see Thor on average no selling simultaneous attacks from Wendigo Bi Beast and Armcheddon). The benefit WBH has is that he appeared relatively few times only to be bombarded with high feats in every appearance. I dont doubt that Hulk would be affected by the destroyer beam (would heal very quickly), but i certainly do NOT place it at a similar level of force (even if left open for a prolonged period) to that which Hulk endured in the HOTM collision and there is little in the way of on panel evidence supporting such. Hence his Hf getting maxed out or even close to it is just not likely. I recall mjolnir being at the epicenter of the collision between Thor,Fenris, and Ulik and breaking. That collision was much less powerful than the one in HOTM (using one much is being generous). I also remeber it breaking when Odinforce Thor hit Bor and unless you think Odinfroce Thor hit Bor with more force than was at the epicentre of the collision in HOTM (which is preposterous) then that is a second time that we have mjolnir breaking from forces less than at the epicentre ( remember several orders of magnitude greater than what the utterly devestating shockwave contained) of the HOTM feat. Still i dont doubt that such beams can slice Hulk, its just that maxing out his HF is really out of the question




It was impressive of the destroyer to tank that attack no doubt (albeit Odin mentioned that it almost perished) but that is not the same as a prolonged assault from WBH which is what this will eventually turn into. The longer the fight goes the better it is for WBH as his durability, strength,hf etc will only get better and he will definitely ge damaging it. Conversely the destroyer will have to attempt to max out WBHs HF/durability damage soak quickly which given WBH feats, it has simply not shown to be able to. As i said, IF it has something estoeric that would be the best way to go.



Id need to see evidence that this had durability comparable to the real deal for anymore to be said on that.



Thats what happens when a closet battleboarder gets hold of a character i guess. Hopefully surfer gets a guy like that soon.heh.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Thats what happens when a closet battleboarder gets hold of a character i guess. Hopefully surfer gets a guy like that soon.heh. Double heh.