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Who wins?

Hal.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Hal.


You think so? I mean I prefer Hal as a character, but I'm not too sure about that.

Hal.

Originally posted by Stoic
You think so? I mean I prefer Hal as a character, but I'm not too sure about that.

I am. Hal is one of the few people that can actually retain his charge with willpower, and Vulcan isn't exactly the greatest when it comes to willpower.

IIRC, Hal has managed to do things even when his ring was drained. His will is just that strong.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I am. Hal is one of the few people that can actually retain his charge with willpower, and Vulcan isn't exactly the greatest when it comes to willpower.

I don't believe that it would have much to do with willpower, but more to do with Vulcan using Hal's power against him. I'm not sure it would matter how Hal decided to approach the battle. Vulcan would likely not need to drain him, although that could be one of several ways that he could turn the battle to his advantage.

Originally posted by Stoic
I don't believe that it would have much to do with willpower, but more to do with Vulcan using Hal's power against him. I'm not sure it would matter how Hal decided to approach the battle. Vulcan would likely not need to drain him, although that could be one of several ways that he could turn the battle to his advantage.

Guardian-level enemies tried to use Hal's own ring-charge against him, and he outwilled them.

Be it in constructs or draining, I don't see the fight turning out well for Vulcan the longer it goes on.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Guardian-level enemies tried to use Hal's own ring-charge against him, and he outwilled them.

Be it in constructs or draining, I don't see the fight turning out well for Vulcan the longer it goes on.


Well there may be a possibility, but I can't see Hal replicating what Gladiator did when he fought Vulcan. Warlock was unable to resist Vulcan's power, and in the same book that Gladiator defeated Vulcan, he was seen turning the very essence of an Imperial Guardsmen in on him, and basically cooked him alive with it. I see Hal in much the same way. He simply wouldn't have a choice in the matter. Hal's best bet would be to just remove the ring and go H2H. It was a hell of a feat that Black Bolt didn't turn him into puke when he spoke point blank in his face. There are just certain characters out there, that were meant to destroy certain others. I'd give Vulcan the win over the Silver Surfer, Hulk, Superman, Quasar, and many others as well though.

Hal.

Originally posted by Stoic
Well there may be a possibility, but I can't see Hal replicating what Gladiator did when he fought Vulcan. Warlock was unable to resist Vulcan's power, and in the same book that Gladiator defeated Vulcan, he was seen turning the very essence of an Imperial Guardsmen in on him, and basically cooked him alive with it. I see Hal in much the same way. He simply wouldn't have a choice in the matter. Hal's best bet would be to just remove the ring and go H2H. It was a hell of a feat that Black Bolt didn't turn him into puke when he spoke point blank in his face. There are just certain characters out there, that were meant to destroy certain others. I'd give Vulcan the win over the Silver Surfer, Hulk, Superman, Quasar, and many others as well though.

...Really?

Originally posted by -Pr-
...Really?


You're asking really to the Surfer, Hulk, Quasar comment? If so, yes I do. Vulcan is one of those characters with the capability it seems to be able to muck around with any energy signature based on the way that he nearly killed Adam Warlock. He even overrode his will to remain himself, and nearly changed him into his alter ego Magus, which made Adam flee.

If Hal could somehow resist being pulled into Vulcan's energy manipulation game, then he has an over average chance at winning, but if he can't it's game over. There is a very good chance that Hal would end up being being destroyed by the same amount of power that he attempts to defeat Vulcan with. Personally I can't stand the character. Even so, on panel evidence suggests that he has the ability to defeat very powerful characters, and the more powerful they are, the more he seems to be able to use that power against them.

Hal's best bet would be to rip off a huge chunk of rock, and flatten him, because an energy war shouldn't work out to well for him.

Originally posted by Stoic
You're asking really to the Surfer, Hulk, Quasar comment? If so, yes I do. Vulcan is one of those characters with the capability it seems to be able to muck around with any energy signature based on the way that he nearly killed Adam Warlock. He even overrode his will to remain himself, and nearly changed him into his alter ego Magus, which made Adam flee.

If Hal could somehow resist being pulled into Vulcan's energy manipulation game, then he has an over average chance at winning, but if he can't it's game over. There is a very good chance that Hal would end up being being destroyed by the same amount of power that he attempts to defeat Vulcan with. Personally I can't stand the character. Even so, on panel evidence suggests that he has the ability to defeat very powerful characters, and the more powerful they are, the more he seems to be able to use that power against them.

Hal's best bet would be to rip off a huge chunk of rock, and flatten him, because an energy war shouldn't work out to well for him.
No limit fallacy ftw. Havok would disagree with you as well as black bolt. Both are characters entirely based on energy manipulation and amping. Vulcan essentialy sucker attacked warlock and warlock=/=Highball.

Plus Vulcan's kinda limited if anyone tried to punch him out, seeing as even after he drained Warlock's magic, Adam still punched him around a bit.

If someone like Surfer, Supes or Hal just went straight in for fisticuffs I can't imagine Vulcan doing very well.

Hal wins

Originally posted by AlmightyKfish
Plus Vulcan's kinda limited if anyone tried to punch him out, seeing as even after he drained Warlock's magic, Adam still punched him around a bit.

If someone like Surfer, Supes or Hal just went straight in for fisticuffs I can't imagine Vulcan doing very well.
Hal punched an amped henshaw's jaw out while having his will sapped by willhunters. Vulcan would get gladiator treatment if hal goes h2h.

Vulcan

Hal would beat him senseless.

Originally posted by abhilegend
No limit fallacy ftw. Havok would disagree with you as well as black bolt. Both are characters entirely based on energy manipulation and amping. Vulcan essentialy sucker attacked warlock and warlock=/=Highball.

Aren't the Summers boys immune to each others powers, or is that just Scott, and Alex? Vulcan took a shout to the face which in the past tore a mountain apart. Even the Skrull Boltagon was capable of shearing state sized chunks of the Moon away. Again he took one to the face, and wasn't turned into goo.

I admit that if Hal plays it smart and is quick enough to rip up several tons of earth and smash him with it, he'd win, but if he plays the containment bubble, energy blast game, Vulcan would, or should win, based off of how well he has dealt with energy in it's various forms in the past. The no limits fallacy certainly applies to Vulcan, he's even been measured to be an omega level energy manipulator, but then again it also applies to Hal not being an omniscient energy user.

Originally posted by Stoic
Aren't the Summers boys immune to each others powers, or is that just Scott, and Alex? Vulcan took a shout to the face which in the past tore a mountain apart. Even the Skrull Boltagon was capable of shearing state sized chunks of the Moon away. Again he took one to the face, and wasn't turned into goo.

I admit that if Hal plays it smart and is quick enough to rip up several tons of earth and smash him with it, he'd win, but if he plays the containment bubble, energy blast game, Vulcan would, or should win, based off of how well he has dealt with energy in it's various forms in the past. The no limits fallacy certainly applies to Vulcan, he's even been measured to be an omega level energy manipulator, but then again it also applies to Hal not being an omniscient energy user.
Nope. Vulcan was easily controlling scott's eyebeams. I'm not talking about what vulcan took to the face, its your notion that vulcan can absorb or beat any energy. Well black bolt's scream and havok's energy blasts incapacitated vulcan. You think that vulcan is the only one who can absorb energy, Dr. Polaris once absorbed the magnetic forces of an entire reality and was oneshotting planets. Hal just pumped so much energy to him that he overloaded him. What's stopping hal from overloading vulcan like that since havok did the same?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope. Vulcan was easily controlling scott's eyebeams. I'm not talking about what vulcan took to the face, its your notion that vulcan can absorb or beat any energy. Well black bolt's scream and havok's energy blasts incapacitated vulcan. You think that vulcan is the only one who can absorb energy, Dr. Polaris once absorbed the magnetic forces of an entire reality and was oneshotting planets. Hal just pumped so much energy to him that he overloaded him. What's stopping hal from overloading vulcan like that since havok did the same?

Perhaps because Dr. Polaris may be limited to manipulating certain forms of energy, while Vulcan can manipulate every one that has been thrown at him since the characters inception which includes magic. There's a big difference in that respect alone. Do you think that you could refrain from pointing out things that I did not write, it borders on the grimy. I think I said that Vulcan does have a limit, but so does Hal. Aside from the one time, shooting Vulcan with energy has been much like shooting Aquaman with water. Was there an explanation to why Scott and Alex were able to overcome him? Could it have had anything to do with them being related? Because that would be the only likely reason to why he did not completely dominate them. Then again there are many writers out there that writer the wonkiest nonsense.

Originally posted by Stoic
Perhaps because Dr. Polaris may be limited to manipulating certain forms of energy, while Vulcan can manipulate every one that has been thrown at him since the characters inception which includes magic. There's a big difference in that respect alone. Do you think that you could refrain from pointing out things that I did not write, it borders on the grimy. I think I said that Vulcan does have a limit, but so does Hal. Aside from the one time, shooting Vulcan with energy has been much like shooting Aquaman with water. Was there an explanation to why Scott and Alex were able to overcome him? Could it have had anything to do with them being related? Because that would be the only likely reason to why he did not completely dominate them. Then again there are many writers out there that writer the wonkiest nonsense.
Many energy manipulators have manipulated magical energies before. Dr. Polaris has done it too. Here are the scans btw

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/2cc639ce.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/eafbbbc7.jpghttp://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/93cc96f2.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/8aeee62c.jpg
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/595613b9.jpg

Aquaman doesn't get overloaded by water. Vulcan has been overloaded by energy before and Hal can certainly do so. The only reason was that havok was amped up by a star, nothing else.

Those scans aren't what you said they were, also, you're missing one.

Only a star huh? Do you have any idea how powerful a star is? Come on man.


Also are those scans taken from pre crisis era?

Btw, Hal is gayfers.

So Kyle comes and saves him 10/10.

This is the missing scan
http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/eafbbbc7.jpgOriginally posted by Stoic
Only a star huh? Do you have any idea how powerful a star is? Come on man.


Also are those scans taken from pre crisis era?
GL rings have re-ignited stars.

Those are canon after IC.

You know Abhi, I find that you use a characters highest feats in order to justify them winning in most of your posts, but leave out their poorer showings, which if added would give an average. Hal has been defeated by far less than the power it would take to reignite a star, and at times I think it's best to ignore a feat that shows a character doing thins that they could not normally pull off.

Vulcan is a very new character, and if it's a feat war that your looking for Hal wins hands down. The question here is whether or not Vulcan would have the ability to manipulate the emerald energy, and I can't seem to come up with a reason that he could not, being that he was capable of manipulating magic. Whatever though, I don't even like Vulcan as a character.

Originally posted by Stoic
You know Abhi, I find that you use a characters highest feats in order to justify them winning in most of your posts, but leave out their poorer showings, which if added would give an average. Hal has been defeated by far less than the power it would take to reignite a star, and at times I think it's best to ignore a feat that shows a character doing thins that they could not normally pull off.

Vulcan is a very new character, and if it's a feat war that your looking for Hal wins hands down. The question here is whether or not Vulcan would have the ability to manipulate the emerald energy, and I can't seem to come up with a reason that he could not, being that he was capable of manipulating magic. Whatever though, I don't even like Vulcan as a character.
We go by what's best feat from characters and I'm only doing it because of your no limit fallacy that no energy attack can harm vulcan at all.

Vulcan has enough appearances to gauge his average and its not his average to beat high heralds in energy manipulation. Dr. Light has manipulated magical energy too, he once ripped Ares' lightning out of cassie's lasso and he was unable to manipulate hal's energy.

Originally posted by Stoic
Aren't the Summers boys immune to each others powers, or is that just Scott, and Alex? Vulcan took a shout to the face which in the past tore a mountain apart. Even the Skrull Boltagon was capable of shearing state sized chunks of the Moon away. Again he took one to the face, and wasn't turned into goo.

I admit that if Hal plays it smart and is quick enough to rip up several tons of earth and smash him with it, he'd win, but if he plays the containment bubble, energy blast game, Vulcan would, or should win, based off of how well he has dealt with energy in it's various forms in the past. The no limits fallacy certainly applies to Vulcan, he's even been measured to be an omega level energy manipulator, but then again it also applies to Hal not being an omniscient energy user.

it's just scott and alex. you can't apply a no-limits fallacy to vulcan, otherse you just end up arguing potential and powerset, which doesn't really apply here on the forum.

And yes, while Vulcan did well against Blackbolt, he's been smacked around by the X-Men and stomped by Gladiator.

And considering what Hal has done against superior manipulators, I don't think it bodes particularly well for Vulcan tbh.

Hal isn't Black Bolt or Gladiator though.

Originally posted by -Pr-
it's just scott and alex. you can't apply a no-limits fallacy to vulcan, otherse you just end up arguing potential and powerset, which doesn't really apply here on the forum.

And yes, while Vulcan did well against Blackbolt, he's been smacked around by the X-Men and stomped by Gladiator.

And considering what Hal has done against superior manipulators, I don't think it bodes particularly well for Vulcan tbh.

First of all I did not say that Vulcan had no limits to the amount of energy that he could absorb. Where are you two getting this from? Point out where in my post I said this?

Slapped around is one thing while manipulating energy, and redirecting it is another. Last time I saw, Hal uses energy, and this has been my stance from the beginning.

Vulcan may lose, but he may win. Hal isn't this all powerful character that he is being raised up to be here. He has lost to less powerful characters than ones that can take a shout from Black Bolt, in fact I believe that if Black Bolt shouted at Hal while his shields were up that on average his shields would shatter. Less than this amount of force has brought them down in the past.

Again I did not say that Vulcan did not have a limit to the amount of energy that he could deal with. Just to clear that up.

Originally posted by carver9
Hal isn't Black Bolt or Gladiator though.
He's better than both.

Originally posted by carver9
Hal isn't Black Bolt or Gladiator though.

You're right, he's superior to Glads and at least on a level with Bolt.

Originally posted by Stoic
First of all I did not say that Vulcan had no limits to the amount of energy that he could absorb. Where are you two getting this from? Point out where in my post I said this?

Slapped around is one thing while manipulating energy, and redirecting it is another. Last time I saw, Hal uses energy, and this has been my stance from the beginning.

Vulcan may lose, but he may win. Hal isn't this all powerful character that he is being raised up to be here. He has lost to less powerful characters than ones that can take a shout from Black Bolt, in fact I believe that if Black Bolt shouted at Hal while his shields were up that on average his shields would shatter. Less than this amount of force has brought them down in the past.

Again I did not say that Vulcan did not have a limit to the amount of energy that he could deal with. Just to clear that up.

I don't know; you seemed to be arguing potential rather than actual feats, is all. If not, my bad.

Yes, Hal uses energy. I just don't see how that's the be all and end all of your argument when Hal himself has overridden Guardians' control of Oan energies.

I never said he was all powerful, nor portrayed him as such. He has been shown, however, to be incredibly hard to take energy from without using a battery.

Vulcan is too up and down. He'got a few pnwage showings, but he is not that impressive.


Hal uses a Vulcanbuster for the win.

meh, i'm sorta with stoic on this. it's hard for me to imagine the green energy doing much to vulcan. i don't necessarily think vulcan could drain his charge automatically (though it wouldn't surprise me if he could), but i can't really see the energy threatening him either. i'm not even sure if vulcan could turn it back on him, but maybe. i'm a vulcan fan, but i like hal too. feat wars will fail, obviously, but vulcan has some showings that do not make it unreasonable to think that in at least some of the matches he could defeat hal. hal is certainly smarter, far far more experienced and could likely figure out a way to win even if vulcan was meddling with his energy. but i don't think it illogical in the least to say vulcan is certainly capable of winning this battle. given the nature of his powerset, vulcan is pretty ideally suited for this type of battle.

Originally posted by leonidas
meh, i'm sorta with stoic on this. it's hard for me to imagine the green energy doing much to vulcan. i don't necessarily think vulcan could drain his charge automatically (though it wouldn't surprise me if he could), but i can't really see the energy threatening him either. i'm not even sure if vulcan could turn it back on him, but maybe. i'm a vulcan fan, but i like hal too. feat wars will fail, obviously, but vulcan has some showings that do not make it unreasonable to think that in at least some of the matches he could defeat hal. hal is certainly smarter, far far more experienced and could likely figure out a way to win even if vulcan was meddling with his energy. but i don't think it illogical in the least to say vulcan is certainly capable of winning this battle. given the nature of his powerset, vulcan is pretty ideally suited for this type of battle.

That's exactly it. He should be pwning energy wielders with ease, but has never been the case with him. If he had the experience and skill, he would've thrown back all the electron thingy Bolt was throwing at him. And don't get me started with Havok.. Bleh...

Vulcan wins.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
That's exactly it. He should be pwning energy wielders with ease, but has never been the case with him. If he had the experience and skill, he would've thrown back all the electron thingy Bolt was throwing at him. And don't get me started with Havok.. Bleh...

i agree 100%, but he HAS had some good showings, he even showed the ability to take control of someone who was considerably more powerful than himself in the eldest (who snapped glads' arm....) but he needed someone to say hey, do THIS. his powerset is tailor-made to destroy hal, but....he isn't too bright so i could see hal taking a majority, despite vulcan's powerset. but i sure as hell wouldn't be surprised, nor would i cry pis if they met in a book and vulcan beat him down.....