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Who wins?

Primes amp will wear off faster then CM, so CM wins.

Captain Marvel

I'd wager the Oan energies of a single Guardian are vastly inferior to those of most of the collected magical energy of the DCU.

Depends how 'immune' to magic you believe GA Prime was, I suppose. However, I personally believe Billy could one-shot him.

Well, he did easily resist Mordru...

Who would promptly get his face punched off by roided out Billy.

Mordru would sap his magic like a sponge. LO3W style.

Just like Spectre did?

biscuits

I'd place Mordru ahead of average Spectre myself. We have seen Fate stand up to him and Mordru has spanked Fate. PC that is.

Spectre > Mordru.

Have they actually fought? Spectre has been rocked by high end magic users before. I see the same thing happening against Mordru.

Actually it doesn't matter. We all agree that Prime will lose, just disagree how fast^^.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Have they actually fought? Spectre has been rocked by high end magic users before. I see the same thing happening against Mordru. I've seen Nabu trounce Mordru. I've seen Spectre trounce Nabu. Specte > Mordru.

It was Mordru's off day.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Well, he did easily resist Mordru... Shazam prep at RoE was probably superior to what DoV Marvel threw at Spectre. Mordru tooled him at the RoE and then restored him for lulz iirc. I know abc logic generally not good logic but it gives an idea of Prime's magic resistance at that scale. That being the case if Prime's magic resistance based off that showing is in fact that good it might not even be necessary for him to have GA amp to win. Mind you this would be nothing against Captain Marvel, just a case of a supremely bad matchup depending on how much faith you want to put into the Mordru feat, which I hold in high esteem because I'm a Mordru fan and to see him get no sold the way he was, was either supremely disappointing at how far he had fallen or a supremely amazing showing for Prime for the ease he punked Mordru.


Again in the super heavyweight tier Prime tends to do extremely well.

Monarch
Mordru,
a Group of Guardians,
The entire Green Lantern Corp. wall
Mr. Mxy.

DOV Billy beating on Spectre (even as Enchantress was severing the power feed) was far more impressive than GA Prime slowly losing to Monarch. Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'd wager the Oan energies of a single Guardian are vastly inferior to those of most of the collected magical energy of the DCU. In this instance, true. When Hallax was empowered by Ganthet's energy precipitating Zero Hour, arguably not so much.

Hallax was powered up by several things. However prime easily shrugging off Kinetix's blast (she absorbed all magic in earth 247) and mordru who absorbed all magic in 30th century makes this harder to judge.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hallax was powered up by several things. However prime easily shrugging off Kinetix's blast (she absorbed all magic in earth 247) and mordru who absorbed all magic in 30th century makes this harder to judge.

This.
To add, Prime would have his amp longer in this fight than the period of time he was fighting Monarch. The amp was already being drained by him doing interdimensional traveling at the rate he was.

I say both amps wear off at about the same time but Prime is able to hang in there due to his magic resistance. It's just hard for me to see magically amped punches doing Prime in. Especially with a GA amp.

^ Trying to account for GA Prime's energy loss while traveling interdimensionally while not accounting for Enchantress completely cutting off Captain Marvel from his amp reeks of a rather puerile double standard.

Beating the sh1t out of Spectre is more impressive than... not really beating the sh1t out of Monarch. At all. I don't know how much simpler it can get. DOV Captain Marvel's punches aren't Black Adam's punches.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Trying to account for GA Prime's energy loss while traveling interdimensionally while not accounting for Enchantress completely cutting off Captain Marvel from his amp reeks of a rather puerile double standard.

Beating the sh1t out of Spectre is more impressive than... not really beating the sh1t out of Monarch. At all. I don't know how much simpler it can get. DOV Captain Marvel's punches aren't Black Adam's punches. still magic based in the origin of his strength. As I said in the DoV run Mordru dominated Shazam who had been prepping ridiculously for Spectre's arrival. Even after Shazam was beaten he absolutely wrecked Spectre with his prep if it weren't for the Spectre's inablity to die+absorbing ambient magic energy. Personally I think this is just a case of a bad match up.

Originally posted by Uriel005
still magic based in the origin of his strength. As I said in the DoV run Mordru dominated Shazam who had been prepping ridiculously for Spectre's arrival. Even after Shazam was beaten he absolutely wrecked Spectre with his prep if it weren't for the Spectre's inablity to die+absorbing ambient magic energy. Personally I think this is just a case of a bad match up. What bad matchup vaults GA Prime on a level that he can contend with someone who was beating the sh1t out of Spectre? And what does a different Mordru at the peak of his performance who has little to nothing to do with a completely alternate version of Mordru have to do with anything?

Originally posted by ODG
^ Trying to account for GA Prime's energy loss while traveling interdimensionally while not accounting for Enchantress completely cutting off Captain Marvel from his amp reeks of a rather puerile double standard.

Beating the sh1t out of Spectre is more impressive than... not really beating the sh1t out of Monarch. At all. I don't know how much simpler it can get. DOV Captain Marvel's punches aren't Black Adam's punches.

Enchantress was pressed the whole time. She couldn't maintain the amp that's why it cut off. She started getting stressed moments after channeling the power. A few pages later she taps out on Billys amp then channels the other 5 conduits.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13293381_vscapt7qj2.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13293380_vscapt11wi0.jpg

For this fight Billy has the amp for the period of time it was sustained in DOV. It wasn't that long.
Funny how you say Billy and Monarch edged out their respective fights.
Billy was ktfo and Monarch has his whole being dispersed across a alternate universe. You can't be serious. confused

Billys punches may do more than just tickle but how much more? Not enough before his amp runs out.

DoV Cap

Originally posted by ODG
What bad matchup vaults GA Prime on a level that he can contend with someone who was beating the sh1t out of Spectre? And what does a different Mordru at the peak of his performance who has little to nothing to do with a completely alternate version of Mordru have to do with anything? you mean the future version who was the same guy as the Mordru from the DoV run...

JSA mordru is 30th century mordru as seen when Dr. Fate showed him the future.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'd wager the Oan energies of a single Guardian are vastly inferior to those of most of the collected magical energy of the DCU. Actually we see the other Guardians aiding in the suicide blast, circling him and adding their power to it.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Enchantress was pressed the whole time. She couldn't maintain the amp that's why it cut off. She started getting stressed moments after channeling the power. A few pages later she taps out on Billys amp then channels the other 5 conduits.

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13293381_vscapt7qj2.jpg http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13293380_vscapt11wi0.jpg

For this fight Billy has the amp for the period of time it was sustained in DOV. It wasn't that long.
Funny how you say Billy and Monarch edged out their respective fights.
Billy was ktfo and Monarch has his whole being dispersed across a alternate universe. You can't be serious. confused

Billys punches may do more than just tickle but how much more? Not enough before his amp runs out. Why are you reiterating unextraordinary statements of uncontested facts? And why exactly aren't you also adding in normal Billy having the sh1t beaten out of him by Spectre before the amp even kicked in or that the Shadowpact kept jabbering to Enchantress when she asked them all to shut up so as not to break her concentration? The more surprising part is, does Billy need to have more Spectre-level power to beat up Prime? Exactly what level are you placing GA Prime? Spectre's?

Funny how Spectre was pounded to utter crap when Monarch never was. Spectre, by the end of the fight, couldn't even fly away under his own power. That is literally how close he was to defeat. Funny how Monarch, a being far below Spectre or DOV Marvel, ended up beating the Guardian amp out of Prime and was never that exhausted at any point before the tired cliche comic book trope of containment suit rupture kicked in.

I couldn't care less for your no limits fallacy to Prime's magic resistance. He never fought anyone with enough magic power to beat the crap out of Spectre to the point where he can't even fly under his own power. This remains true: Originally posted by Galan007
Depends how 'immune' to magic you believe GA Prime was, I suppose. However, I personally believe Billy could one-shot him. Apparently you think GA Prime would beat the sh1t out of Spectre. Forgive my disbelief at the inanity of such a position. Originally posted by Uriel005
you mean the future version who was the same guy as the Mordru from the DoV run... A future version that never even came to pass. So, essentially, not a future version at all. I'm not going to entertain more of this GDS Darkseid/Darkseid, JSA/Legion Mordru, they're all the same, blablabla bullsh1t again. They're different versions of a character. Your ABC logic (that depends on using different versions of characters) doesn't even stack up right since Mordru had the sh1t beaten out of him by Nabu, who was in turn romped by Spectre. A better case of ABC logic failing if there ever was one... and one that Galan007 already addressed on the first page.

Kinetix amped up on every bit of magic in a universe was unable to affect SBP at all. JSA mordru and Legion mordru are the same, mordru isn't the same as other characters like darkseid. He's the same guy throughout the history.

If Marvel uses magic to try to fight prime, he'll lose quickly. If be uses magic to amp his physical strength, he'll prolong the fight but will lose in the end.

Prime killed monarch after his amp had already run out. At that time monarch still housed universe destroying energies. So he really didn't need the amp to kill monarch because be killed him without it anyway.

Superman-Prime (Guardian Amped) would wipe the floor off of Captain Marvel (DOV).

Captain Marvel had a hard time against an enraged Spectre (with no host) and backing from Presence, which means the Spectre that Captain Marvel fought at Day of V. was weaker than other incarnations.

Superman-Prime was able to fight Monarch (albeit we don't know if Monarch was going all out). Monarch is probably much stronger than the Spectre (DOV), as he was a multiversal threat IIRC.

So Superman-Prime destroys Captain Marvel.

Originally posted by quab
Monarch is probably much stronger than the Spectre (DOV), as he was a multiversal threat IIRC. http://static.themetapicture.com/media/funny-gif-Colbert-screaming.gif

Originally posted by ODG
Why are you reiterating unextraordinary statements of uncontested facts? And why exactly aren't you also adding in normal Billy having the sh1t beaten out of him by Spectre before the amp even kicked in or that the Shadowpact kept jabbering to Enchantress when she asked them all to shut up so as not to break her concentration? The more surprising part is, does Billy need to have more Spectre-level power to beat up Prime? Exactly what level are you placing GA Prime? Spectre's?

Billy got his ass kicked. Whoop de doo. He was fully restored after the amp. I guess you forgot.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13309959_vscapt6jc0.jpg

The distractions Enchantress encountered are insignificant. The point is that Billy will only have this amp for the duration he had it in DOV which was short. This is not Billy with an everlasting amp furnished by a undistracted Enchantress vs Prime. Yes Billy does need to have more Spectre level power. It's not about Primes level but how long he can weather the storm with his magical resistance before he sends Billy up shits creek. With a hole in the boat & no paddle.

Originally posted by ODG
Funny how Spectre was pounded to utter crap when Monarch never was. Spectre, by the end of the fight, couldn't even fly away under his own power. That is literally how close he was to defeat. Funny how Monarch, a being far below Spectre or DOV Marvel, ended up beating the Guardian amp out of Prime and was never that exhausted at any point before the tired cliche comic book trope of containment suit rupture kicked in.

Funny how Billy was laid comatose with Spectre still standing. Your spin on the fight doesn't change what's displayed on panel. You're supposed to know this stuff.

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/13309960_vscapt13ln2.jpg

Base Prime has tanked a triple team Guardian blast then forced a Guardian into self destruction. His invulnerability, non melee based, is well documented. Prime tanked 1 concentrated quantum nuke blast and 1 energy projection attack from Monarch. I can't see how you view this as a significant drainage considering his standard durability, opposed to how he burned off excess energy prior to this fight.

Originally posted by ODG
I couldn't care less for your no limits fallacy to Prime's magic resistance. He never fought anyone with enough magic power to beat the crap out of Spectre to the point where he can't even fly under his own power.

On the flip side, until Prime fights a being the caliber of which would have any sufficient effect, then it's pure conjecture on your part to believe Billy would have the profound effect you're trying to project. Spectre was able to extract the Spear of Destiny so I think we can agree he was in better shape.

^ Don't even care. You're trying to raise GA Prime up to Spectre's level. Go create that thread and hope it doesn't get shut down for being idiotic like the others.

Billy got his sh1t kicked in before he ever received that amp. Enchantress had idiots yapping left and right and her telling them to shut up because they wre, in fact, not helping her concentration. And FFS, a character DOES NOT need to be Spectre+ levels of power to beat up GA Prime.

Monarch phucking did it and he wasn't so weakened and diminished that he was crawling around and desperately asking some ally to fly him away. Jebus H. Christ.

Why would Billy's amp wear off? His amp losing power was due to an outside source. Prime's was due to internal.

Originally posted by ODG
^ Don't even care. You're trying to raise GA Prime up to Spectre's level. Go create that thread and hope it doesn't get shut down for being idiotic like the others.

Billy got his sh1t kicked in before he ever received that amp. Enchantress had idiots yapping left and right and her telling them to shut up because they wre, in fact, not helping her concentration. And FFS, a character DOES NOT need to be Spectre+ levels of power to beat up GA Prime.

Monarch phucking did it and he wasn't so weakened and diminished that he was crawling around and desperately asking some ally to fly him away. Jebus H. Christ.

yawn

Now you're acting like you have comprehension problems. Or is this just the toddler pouting/ignoring phase?

DOV Captain Marvel

Originally posted by Sundipped
yawn

Now you're acting like you have comprehension problems. Or is this just the toddler pouting/ignoring phase? Hilarious that I'm the one being unreasonable and petulantly stubborn when you insist on this: Originally posted by Sundipped
Yes Billy does need to have more Spectre level power. It's not about Primes level but how long he can weather the storm with his magical resistance before he sends Billy up shits creek. With a hole in the boat & no paddle. The Spectre (or Spectre-level power) would beat the sh1t out of GA Prime. smh But go ahead and make the stupid Spectre vs GA Prime thread and prove my incredulity wrong over how long it'd actually take.

^
Blah Blah Blah....

This isn't about Spectre but magic based/amped Billy.

How much power would a magic being have to have to beat Prime?

Universal, multiversal?

...the idea that Prime would win, let alone easily beat Billy is quite startling.

Prime wins.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
...the idea that Prime would win, let alone easily beat Billy is quite startling.
Why's it so startling that prime can beat cap here? Kinetix amped upon an entire universe's magic did jack shit against prime as did mordru. I find it hilarious that the same people who claim that DOV spectre was at skyfather level since shazam beat him but now suddenly he's an abstract.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why's it so startling that prime can beat cap here? Kinetix amped upon an entire universe's magic did jack shit against prime as did mordru. I find it hilarious that the same people who claim that DOV spectre was at skyfather level since shazam beat him but now suddenly he's an abstract.

^His Power level fluctuated. IIRC he became more powerful the more magic he absorbed. He should be in the Abstract Category imho, about Galactus+ Level. Since he beat everyone, Nabu, Phantom Stranger or Shazam (who are all Skyfather or of higher level). DOV Billy was Skyfather+ I think, or Elder God level, since he put up a fight, a better one then Odin against Galactus, but still there was no hope for him to win there.

GA Prime was operating on an almost similar level like Billy, just a notch below Monarch and DOV Bill. He could hang there for a while, due to his magic resistance, but Billis fist, thought amped by magic should still be a physical force that strike Superman Prime and theys should hurt. For me it's a matter whose amp will go down faster. Personally I think without outer disturbances that CM amp will hold longer. If Prime is becomes aware of this and tries to "cut" it off, CM will go down, else he should outlast GA Prime.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Why's it so startling that prime can beat cap here? Kinetix amped upon an entire universe's magic did jack shit against prime as did mordru. I find it hilarious that the same people who claim that DOV spectre was at skyfather level since shazam beat him but now suddenly he's an abstract. 1) Spectre was weak from days on end of fighting many of DC's strongest characters, gods and abstracts, often many at a time. Noted during the fight with SHAZAM.
2) SHAZAM didn't win in any way, unless we consider someone falling down a win. He fell in one panel, and was standing up in the very next one.
3) Even that only happened mostly because Spectre was toying with his opponents, which was even noted in the storyline during the fight with Nabu.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
^His Power level fluctuated. IIRC he became more powerful the more magic he absorbed. He should be in the Abstract Category imho, about Galactus+ Level. Since he beat everyone, Nabu, Phantom Stranger or Shazam (who are all Skyfather or of higher level). DOV Billy was Skyfather+ I think, or Elder God level, since he put up a fight, a better one then Odin against Galactus, but still there was no hope for him to win there.

GA Prime was operating on an almost similar level like Billy, just a notch below Monarch and DOV Bill. He could hang there for a while, due to his magic resistance, but Billis fist, thought amped by magic should still be a physical force that strike Superman Prime and theys should hurt. For me it's a matter whose amp will go down faster. Personally I think without outer disturbances that CM amp will hold longer. If Prime is becomes aware of this and tries to "cut" it off, CM will go down, else he should outlast GA Prime. Skyfather? Billy had most of the ambient magic of the universe, several pantheons, phantom stranger, was channeling the Starheart and pretty much every magic user alive on Earth dumping power into him.

The sheer force of his punches were echoing across reality and destroying shit. lol.

Originally posted by Juntai
Skyfather? Billy had most of the ambient magic of the universe, several pantheons, phantom stranger, was channeling the Starheart and pretty much every magic user alive on Earth dumping power into him.

The sheer force of his punches were echoing across reality and destroying shit. lol.

Skyfather + or Elder God level. Odin fought also across realities as a skyfather. Anyway. Where would you rank him?

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Skyfather + or Elder God level. Odin fought also across realities as a skyfather. Anyway. Where would you rank him? 40 years ago or so?

I don't bother with feats that old, regardless if they're still considered canon or not. Characters have changed too much and too many rebalancing and retcons since then.

DC's Odin created a universe before, and he might as well be a gnat to the likes of Spectre.

Billy was much closer to Archangel Michael's level of power than he was a skyfathers, as many many skyfathers were pumping him, and Michael is the only one to really lay a beating on Spectre like Billy did. Though it could be said that it was because Spectre had already used an unquantifiable amount of energy taking out Phantom Stranger and some gods and Atlantis, etc prior to the battle. That and he purposely chose to take on Billy head to head to test him, when he could have just shut him off.

Originally posted by Juntai
40 years ago or so? You need to be reminded that it wasn't just 40 years ago?

Originally posted by ODG
You need to be reminded that it wasn't just 40 years ago? There's a recent one? Hook me up in a PM.