Uatu Vs Surtur

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Golgo13
Who wins? No sword for Surtur.

pym-ftw
The Gerber baby

zopzop
Without the Sword, or even with it really, what powers has Surtur demonstrated? Couldn't Uatu just go intangible and force a stalemate, because if he tries straight up attacking Surtur, Uatu's gonna wind up in the ER.

Classic NES
Originally posted by zopzop
Without the Sword, or even with it really, what powers has Surtur demonstrated?

He destroyed a Galaxy just making the sword.

JakeTheBank
Uatu.

Classic NES
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Uatu.

loses.

JakeTheBank
If you look at the entire Watcher race's history and what they've consistently shown on panel, it's clear Uatu holds the edge over Surtur, especially Twilight Sword-less.

Unless you think the Quasar and Rulk feats invalidate much more consistent showings of them across the board. Which would be...a unique perspective.

Admittedly, I used to give Odin the win over Uatu. He certainly has crazy high end feats of his own, but given what their race is shown of doing without much exertion, I'd likely change my mind. Celestials didn't give a shit about Odin and the skyfathers. They actually felt the Watchers were a threat to them.

Classic NES
You seem to be giving them the win because of the station they hold in the Marvel U. Not by actual on panel feats.

JakeTheBank
Their on panel feats is what gives them their station.

On panel they have:
-Survived galaxies and universes being destroyed virtually unscathed.
-Battled Galactus
-Forced the Celestials to prep in order to take them on
-Manipulated space and time on a whim to ridiculous levels
-Brought themselves back to life simply by willing it
-No sold Molecule Man

So yes, my opinion is backed by multiple examples of them doing crazy shit spread throughout the decades.

Starscream M
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Their on panel feats is what gives them their station.

On panel they have:
-Survived galaxies and universes being destroyed virtually unscathed.
-Battled Galactus
-Forced the Celestials to prep in order to take them on
-Manipulated space and time on a whim to ridiculous levels
-Brought themselves back to life simply by willing it
-No sold Molecule Man
classic juggernaut can easily do all of those you listed

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Starscream M
classic juggernaut can easily do all of those you listed

...........

Starscream M
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
........... ok, most of those

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
...........

Classic NES
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Their on panel feats is what gives them their station

On panel they have:
-Survived galaxies and universes being destroyed virtually unscathed.
-Battled Galactus
-Forced the Celestials to prep in order to take them on
-Manipulated space and time on a whim to ridiculous levels
-Brought themselves back to life simply by willing it
-No sold Molecule Man

So yes, my opinion is backed by multiple examples of them doing crazy shit spread throughout the decades.

I'm sorry, but if that's the best that you have. . .Well, let's just get this over with.:

-Surtur destroys a galaxy all by his lonesome and Odin during his fight with Seth destroyed countless Galaxies. Oh, he also shook the entire Marvel U.

-Thor has pushed back Galactus before.

-Odin ripped the universe apart during his fight with Forsung the enchanter. Only to have it restored it to it's former state on his whim.

-Odin has resurrected a race of billions

-Thor's Absorbed the entire force of the Null bomb with his hammer. Said bomb had enough power to destroy a galaxy.
He also contained the force of the Life Bomb which could destroy 1/5 of the universe.

I could go on.

iceman24567
Originally posted by Starscream M
classic juggernaut can easily do all of those you listed Hell no no expression

zopzop
Originally posted by Classic NES
I'm sorry, but if that's the best that you have. . .Well, let's just get this over with.:

-Surtur destroys a galaxy all by his lonesome and Odin during his fight with Seth destroyed countless Galaxies. Oh, he also shook the entire Marvel U.

-Thor has pushed back Galactus before.

-Odin ripped the universe apart during his fight with Forsung the enchanter. Only to have it restored it to it's former state on his whim.

-Odin has resurrected a race of billions

-Thor's Absorbed the entire force of the Null bomb with his hammer. Said bomb had enough power to destroy a galaxy.
He also contained the force of the Life Bomb which could destroy 1/5 of the universe.

I could go on.
Don't forget Thor/Dargo/BRB/Thunderstrike shoring up the MULTIVERSE with their Godblasts! Happy Dance

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Classic NES
I'm sorry, but if that's the best that you have. . .Well, let's just get this over with.:

-Surtur destroys a galaxy all by his lonesome and Odin during his fight with Seth destroyed countless Galaxies. Oh, he also shook the entire Marvel U.

-Thor has pushed back Galactus before.

-Odin ripped the universe apart during his fight with Forsung the enchanter. Only to have it restored it to it's former state on his whim.

-Odin has resurrected a race of billions

-Thor's Absorbed the entire force of the Null bomb with his hammer. Said bomb had enough power to destroy a galaxy.
He also absorbed the force of the Life Bomb which could destroy 1/5 of the universe.

I could go on.

-He destroyed a Galaxy via forging Twilight, yes. Odin destroying countless galaxies and effecting every plane of reality is a great feat, not disputing it. Uatu has likewise battled across infinite rivers of reality on panel.

-Thor can stagger, harm, and potentially kill a weakened Galactus. He can't stalemate Galactus straight up until the universe dies.

-Uatu could have undid the Magus' machinations of universal manipulation if he felt inclined.

-Watchers ressurect themselves as life and death aren't "absolute" as it is for most races.

-Watchers just tank universes exploding without the need for massive absorbing capabilities. Or they warp what they need to. Or create them.

You could go on listing more Thor/Odin feats that I'm already aware of. So could I.

In any case, Uatu is clearly and irrevocably beyond Thor. Hope that's put to rest.

zopzop
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
-He destroyed a Galaxy via forging Twilight, yes. Odin destroying countless galaxies and effecting every plane of reality is a great feat, not disputing it. Uatu has likewise battled across infinite rivers of reality on panel.

-Thor can stagger, harm, and potentially kill a weakened Galactus. He can't stalemate Galactus straight up until the universe dies.

-Uatu could have undid the Magus' machinations of universal manipulation if he felt inclined.

-Watchers ressurect themselves as life and death aren't "absolute" as it is for most races.

-Watchers just tank universes exploding without the need for massive absorbing capabilities. Or they warp what they need to. Or create them.

You could go on listing more Thor/Odin feats that I'm already aware of. So could I.

In any case, Uatu is clearly and irrevocably beyond Thor. Hope that's put to rest.
And yet :
http://www.dailyraider.com/comics/hulk05/watcher.jpg

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by zopzop
And yet :
http://www.dailyraider.com/comics/hulk05/watcher.jpg

Jeph Loeb not giving a shit and feat whoring Rulk doesn't invalidate the power of the Watchers or Uatu as a whole.

zopzop
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Jeph Loeb not giving a shit and feat whoring Rulk doesn't invalidate the power of the Watchers or Uatu as a whole.
And yet......
http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/6470/quasar150195up.jpg
laughing

JakeTheBank
And yet...

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3289/fantasticfourv137315rr6.jpg

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/545/f440035rd5.jpg

Not sure what you're trying to prove here outside of pointing out that Uatu and Watchers have less than redeeming moments...which every character does, including the likes of Odin and Surtur.

Golgo13
Watcher: "OW!"

laughing out loud

zopzop
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And yet...

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/3289/fantasticfourv137315rr6.jpg
That's supposed to be impressive? That was Owen when he had a FRACTION of the 1/2 Cube power he formerly had before his merger with post retcon Beyonder! Hell, Klaw OWNED his @$$ too.
laughing


Again not really impressive. Seeing how Doom with Aaron's power struggled to shatter IW's force fields and the backlash rocked both him and her! She was wrecked and he had to retreat to gather his senses.
laughing

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by zopzop

That's supposed to be impressive? That was Owen when he had a FRACTION of the 1/2 Cube power he formerly had before his merger with post retcon Beyonder! Hell, Klaw OWNED his @$$ too.
laughing


Again not really impressive. Seeing how Doom with Aaron's power struggled to shatter IW's force fields and the backlash rocked both him and her! She was wrecked and he had to retreat to gather his senses.
laughing

laughing out loud

So you're legitimately going to stand here and tell me Watchers are, what, high heralds? Maybe trans-levels? When they clearly have multiple instances of doing shit waaaaaaaaay above the pay grade of the likes of Thor and others? And citing lower end spectrum feats to make a case to boot?

Geez, what feats do impress you?

Classic NES
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
-He destroyed a Galaxy via forging Twilight, yes.

- Uatu has likewise battled across infinite rivers of reality on panel.


*He still destroyed a Galaxy, that's the point.

*I hope you're not suggesting that feat is comparable to what Odin did. Because it's not.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank

-Thor can stagger, harm, and potentially kill a weakened Galactus. He can't stalemate Galactus straight up until the universe dies.

You missed the point of that feat. Alot of people have good showings against Big G, because he tends to suffer from the Worf effect. Sentry, for example, stalemated Galactus.



Originally posted by JakeTheBank

-Uatu could have undid the Magus' machinations of universal manipulation if he felt inclined.

-Watchers ressurect themselves as life and death aren't "absolute" as it is for most races.

-Watchers just tank universes exploding without the need for massive absorbing capabilities. Or they warp what they need to. Or create them.


*What does that even mean? Are you talking about when Magus had an incomplete I.G.?

*So, they can resseruct themselves, just like Odin can ressurect the dead. Cool.

*But, on average they lose to less.



Originally posted by JakeTheBank


In any case, Uatu is clearly and irrevocably beyond Thor. Hope that's put to rest.

Still below Surtur.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Classic NES
*He still destroyed a Galaxy, that's the point.

*I hope you're not suggesting that feat is comparable to what Odin did. Because it's not.




You missed the point of that feat. Alot of people have good showings against Big G, because he tends to suffer from the Worf effect. Sentry, for example, stalemated Galactus.






*What does that even mean? Are you talking about when Magus had an incomplete I.G.?

*So, they can resseruct themselves, just like Odin can ressurect the dead. Cool.

*But, on average they lose to less.





Still below Surtur.

I know what the point is. Uatu has easily survived being in the midst of galaxies being destroyed. He's battled across infinite levels of reality. How is that any different than what Odin did, much less less impressive?

When did Sentry stalemate Galactus until the universe died? erm Spider-Man's hearsay isn't the gospel, especially considering Reed and the F4 have "stalemated" Galactus with context. A Watcher literally fought Galactus until they both died. Completely different than anything Thor or Sentry can or have done.

Uatu could have undone Magus merging the universe with his CCUs. What kind of warping has Odin or Surtur done to suggest it's even possible?

Completely different scales of resurrection. When Odin's dead, he's dead. He can't just decide to come back, otherwise, he would have the times he's died.

Do you want to prove that on average they lose to less? Because, Odin/Surtur, on average, don't bust galaxies and threaten universes.

Not really, no. Surtur hasn't displayed any notable powers without the sword to suggest he can match Uatu or another Watcher.

Colossus-Big C
Originally posted by zopzop
Without the Sword, or even with it really, what powers has Surtur demonstrated? Couldn't Uatu just go intangible and force a stalemate, because if he tries straight up attacking Surtur, Uatu's gonna wind up in the ER. skyfathers in general have tons of powers, some rarely use them but they have tons of powers, shape shifting, telepathy ,telekinesis,matter manipulations etc

zopzop
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
laughing out loud

So you're legitimately going to stand here and tell me Watchers are, what, high heralds? Maybe trans-levels? When they clearly have multiple instances of doing shit waaaaaaaaay above the pay grade of the likes of Thor and others? And citing lower end spectrum feats to make a case to boot?

Geez, what feats do impress you?
Trans. That's where I'd put them.

We also have MULTIPLE instances of Thor doing way more impressive sh|t than any Watcher. So that proves nothing. When they do fight, it's not impressive................at all.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
skyfathers in general have tons of powers, some rarely use them but they have tons of powers, shape shifting, telepathy ,telekinesis,matter manipulations etc
Yeah Big C, I know. Was just wondering out loud if there was any on panel stuff of Surtur doing anything exotic.

Golgo13
Originally posted by zopzop
Trans. That's where I'd put them.

We also have MULTIPLE instances of Thor doing way more impressive sh|t than any Watcher. So that proves nothing. When they do fight, it's not impressive................at all.

Yeah Big C, I know. Was just wondering out loud if there was any on panel stuff of Surtur doing anything exotic.

thumb up Watcher seem overrated, IMO.

Classic NES
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I know what the point is. Uatu has easily survived being in the midst of galaxies being destroyed. He's battled across infinite levels of reality. How is that any different than what Odin did, much less less impressive?


I'll just post the scans now and let them do the talking:



http://i45.tinypic.com/qqobo6.png
http://i50.tinypic.com/2zdokl3.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/fk5h5i.jpg


Originally posted by JakeTheBank


When did Sentry stalemate Galactus until the universe died? erm Spider-Man's hearsay isn't the gospel, especially considering Reed and the F4 have "stalemated" Galactus with context. A Watcher literally fought Galactus until they both died. Completely different than anything Thor or Sentry can or have done.

I can bring up other Galactus low showings. That was the point btw, Galactus jobbing to make other characters look powerful.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Uatu could have undone Magus merging the universe with his CCUs. What kind of warping has Odin or Surtur done to suggest it's even possible?

How about the fact that he restored the universe after laying waste to it? As opposed to a statement claiming he could.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Completely different scales of resurrection.

I agree, a race of Billions> self resurrection.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


Not really, no. Surtur hasn't displayed any notable powers without the sword to suggest he can match Uatu or another Watcher.

http://i45.tinypic.com/5b8u0z.jpg

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by zopzop
Trans. That's where I'd put them.

We also have MULTIPLE instances of Thor doing way more impressive sh|t than any Watcher. So that proves nothing. When they do fight, it's not impressive................at all.

Yeah Big C, I know. Was just wondering out loud if there was any on panel stuff of Surtur doing anything exotic.

Thor's never easily sped up time millions of years or deaged someone to death or accessed multiple timelines and realities under his own power or fought Galactus for eons or displayed massive telepathic ability or TK or convert another "trans" being into pure energy or rearrange solar systems by thinking.

Yeah, Thor does have crazy good high end feats for a High Herald, but his best doesn't make him > a Watcher. That's ridiculous.

Batman-Prime
The Watchers are about Trans-Skyfather+ I think, like the Guardians. The better know can surpass an skyfather but the average Watcher isn't on their Level.

Classic NES
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Thor's never easily sped up time millions of years or deaged someone to death or accessed multiple timelines and realities under his own power or fought Galactus for eons or displayed massive telepathic ability or TK or convert another "trans" being into pure energy or rearrange solar systems by thinking.





Thor has stopped time, travel through time, can transport himself anywhere in the Marvel U, manipulate all forms of energy and has pushed back Galactus.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Classic NES
I'll just post the scans now and let them do the talking:



http://i45.tinypic.com/qqobo6.png
http://i50.tinypic.com/2zdokl3.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/fk5h5i.jpg




I can bring up other Galactus low showings. That was the point btw, Galactus jobbing to make other characters look powerful.




How about the fact that he restored the universe after laying waste to it? As opposed to a statement claiming he could.



I agree, a race of Billions> self resurrection.



http://i45.tinypic.com/5b8u0z.jpg

So how exactly is a "shockwave rippling across every plane of reality" better than "war waged across infinite rivers of reality"? Short answer: it's not.

Which of Galactus' low showings is tantamount to anyone fighting him for eons until the universe dies? Nothing Thor or Sentry did comes close to that kind of power. At all. And yeah, Odin and Surtur have low showings as well, including being phased by the likes of Thor to shit like attacked by invading space ants. Watchers aren't unique in that regard, let's be honest.

Considering everything else Watchers have done on panel, including creating universes, there's no reason to believe he couldn't have done it if he felt like breaking his oath...which he does fairly often, all things considered.

Point missed, but okay.

And we've already established that Watchers no sell galaxies being destroyed and can survive universal destruction or at least fight until the universe is destroyed when they want to. What other powers does Surtur have to match incredible spatial/time manipulation, TK, TP, etc?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Classic NES
Thor has stopped time, travel through time, can transport himself anywhere in the Marvel U, manipulate all forms of energy and has pushed back Galactus.

His displays of time manipulation are just about infinitely inferior to Uatu's, as are his displays of teleportion. Him pushing back and effecting Galactus is completely different than actually fighting him until the universe literally dies.

Thor is nowhere close to Watcher level in power unless you take his exclusive high end feats without the context and simultaneously ignore theirs.

zopzop
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So how exactly is a "shockwave rippling across every plane of reality" better than "war waged across infinite rivers of reality"? Short answer: it's not.

Which of Galactus' low showings is tantamount to anyone fighting him for eons until the universe dies? Nothing Thor or Sentry did comes close to that kind of power. At all. And yeah, Odin and Surtur have low showings as well, including being phased by the likes of Thor to shit like attacked by invading space ants. Watchers aren't unique in that regard, let's be honest.

Considering everything else Watchers have done on panel, including creating universes, there's no reason to believe he couldn't have done it if he felt like breaking his oath...which he does fairly often, all things considered.

Point missed, but okay.

And we've already established that Watchers no sell galaxies being destroyed and can survive universal destruction or at least fight until the universe is destroyed when they want to. What other powers does Surtur have to match incredible spatial/time manipulation, TK, TP, etc?

The Ecce/Galactus fight isn't canon.

When did Watchers survive "galaxies" being destroyed? I know Uatu survived "many" solar systems being destroyed. That's not the same thing.

Also, didn't they create a "POCKET" universe? Not the same thing as creating an actual universe replete with it's own abstracts and concepts.

Badabing
Everyone back on topic. Thor isn't in this thread. Thank you.

Classic NES
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
So how exactly is a "shockwave rippling across every plane of reality" better than "war waged across infinite rivers of reality"? Short answer: it's not.

Because one is an actual quantifiable feat. We can measure the destructive capacity of one Odin and Seths feat as opposed to the watcher.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Which of Galactus' low showings is tantamount to anyone fighting him for eons until the universe dies? Nothing Thor or Sentry did comes close to that kind of power. At all. And yeah, Odin and Surtur have low showings as well, including being phased by the likes of Thor to shit like attacked by invading space ants. Watchers aren't unique in that regard, let's be honest.

What's your point?

It's a low showing for Big G period. But, if you wanna bring up low showings, I'll follow suite and bring up Rulk. smile


Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Considering everything else Watchers have done on panel, including creating universes, there's no reason to believe he couldn't have done it if he felt like breaking his oath...which he does fairly often, all things considered.

But he didn't. . .

This goes back to my whole point of on-panel feats versus character rank.



Originally posted by JakeTheBank


And we've already established that Watchers no sell galaxies being destroyed and can survive universal destruction or at least fight until the universe is destroyed when they want to.

But, can they destroy galaxies and universes?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

What other powers does Surtur have to match incredible spatial/time manipulation, TK, TP, etc?


Odin has those abilities and surtur still killed him. So, it's obvious that Time/space manipulation won't be of help

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Classic NES
Because one is an actual quantifiable feat. We can measure the destructive capacity of one Odin and Seths feat as opposed to the watcher.




What's your point?

It's a low showing for Big G period. But, if you wanna bring up low showings, I'll follow suite and bring up Rulk. smile




But he didn't. . .

This goes back to my whole point of on-panel feats versus character rank.





But, can they destroy galaxies and universes?




Odin has those abilities and surtur still killed him. So, it's obvious that Time/space manipulation won't be of help

That's ridiculous. According to the narration, the end result was ultimately the same: massive energy output washing over a war that was waged on and effected infinite/every plane of reality.

AGAIN not the same thing. Hurting Galactus or even beating him is completely different than doing it until the end of time and the universe dies. That's not hard to understand. By all means, bring up Rulk. It's not equal to the lowest showings of Odin or Surtur, which I wouldn't even bring up anyway for the same reason: it's a low showing and not indicative of their normal prowess.

Okay. On panel, they displayed feats to justify warping on a universal level including creating universes (which, yes, I'm aware Odin has done).

I'd wager they can, yes, based off of what they've done and can do on panel.

Odin didn't use them on Surtur, either. And Surtur killed Odin thanks to some context which won't apply to Uatu here. And Odin hasn't displayed some of the feats Watchers have done on the same scale, either, so it's a moot point. And we know for a fact that Surtur can be BFRed, which is well with Uatu's ability.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
Because one is an actual quantifiable feat. We can measure the destructive capacity of one Odin and Seths feat as opposed to the watcher.
Nope , in both cases the statement is made by the narrative , which doesn't make one more quantifiable than the other .

Classic NES
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
That's ridiculous. According to the narration, the end result was ultimately the same: massive energy output washing over a war that was waged on and effected infinite/every plane of reality.

What's your point?

I repeat: We can measure the destructive capacity of one Odin and Seths feat as opposed to the watcher.

This is why the watchers feat is of no consequence.




Originally posted by JakeTheBank

AGAIN not the same thing. Hurting Galactus or even beating him is completely different than doing it until the end of time and the universe dies.

So, a stalemate is more impressive than a defeat?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

* That's not hard to understand. By all means, bring up Rulk. It's not equal to the lowest showings of Odin or Surtur,

*which I wouldn't even bring up anyway for the same reason: it's a low showing and not indicative of their normal prowess.

It really isn't comparable in the slightest, Odins lowest showing doesn't involve him getting beaten like a punk.

So, why are you bringing up Galactus low showing?


Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Okay. On panel, they displayed feats to justify warping on a universal level including creating universes (which, yes, I'm aware Odin has done).

Reference please.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank

I'd wager they can, yes, based off of what they've done and can do on panel.

You haven't posted any references for said on-panel evidence, btw.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Odin didn't use them on Surtur, either. And Surtur killed Odin thanks to some context which won't apply to Uatu here. And Odin hasn't displayed some of the feats Watchers have done on the same scale, either, so it's a moot point. And we know for a fact that Surtur can be BFRed, which is well with Uatu's ability.

There feats aren't on the same scale, though.

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Nope , in both cases the statement is made by the narrative , which doesn't make one more quantifiable than the other .


The statements aren't the same, one involves destruction and the other "traveling". Narrative statements are quantifiable BTW.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
The statements aren't the same, one involves destruction and the other "traveling". Narrative statements are quantifiable BTW.
And where did I state that they were the same or that narrative statements aren't quantifiable ? Both were made by the narrative , so I don't see how one becomes more quantifiable than the other , without injecting bias into one particular battle .

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And where did I state that they were the same ? Both were made by the narrative , so I don't see how one becomes more quantifiable than the other , without injecting bias into one particular battle .


I'm just saying, which is a better demonstration of power: "Travels through infinite realms" or destroying countless galaxies?

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Classic NES
What's your point?

I repeat: We can measure the destructive capacity of one Odin and Seths feat as opposed to the watcher.

This is why the watchers feat is of no consequence.






So, a stalemate is more impressive than a defeat?



It really isn't comparable in the slightest, Odins lowest showing doesn't involve him getting beaten like a punk.

So, why are you bringing up Galactus low showing?




Reference please.




You haven't posted any references for on-panel evidence, btw.



There feats aren't on the same scale, though.

The effect of both fights was exactly the same. That's all that really matters in the end. Not sure how it went from not being in the same league as Odin/Seth to being of no consequence, but that's your prerogative.

A Watching battling Galactus until the universe dies before ultimately dying himself is far more impressive than the likes of Thor or Sentry stalemating Galactus for a time. I mean, I'm seriously not getting how you compare the two completely different scales.

Odin's lowest showing completely shows him getting kidnapped and sold off like cattle at an alien ant auction. It's completely embarassing and easily the worst showing I can think of for Odin and so absurd I couldn't even make it up. That is far worse than getting sucker punched by Rulk.

What Galactus low showing are you even talking about? My point is that every character has low showing (high ones too for that matter). Looking at one or the other and arbitrarily deciding that's the level they're consistently on is ridiculous.

Reference to which one? The Watcher or Odin?

I have, actually.

No, they're not on the same scale. The Watchers as a rule have consistently better displays of time/spatial warping than Odin does, though his high end feats are up there. And Surtur has next to none I can think of under his own power and even less powers to counter everything Watchers can do.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
I'm just saying, which is a better demonstration of power: "Travels through infinite realms" or destroying countless galaxies?
The original comparison centered around "shockwave rippling across every plane of reality" VS "war waged across infinite rivers of reality" .

Neither is anymore impressive than the other really .

But anyways , "could imperil untold galaxies" was a statement made by Strange , not the narrative .

zopzop
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
A Watching battling Galactus until the universe dies before ultimately dying himself is far more impressive than the likes of Thor or Sentry stalemating Galactus for a time. I mean, I'm seriously not getting how you compare the two completely different scales.

Dude this isn't canon.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by zopzop
Dude this isn't canon.

How is it not? I mean, What-If's aren't canon, but Uatu and Watchers in general have the ability to access those alternate worlds, divergent timelines, and things that never came to be. It's the very nature of their existence.

zopzop
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
How is it not? I mean, What-If's aren't canon, but Uatu and Watchers in general have the ability to access those alternate worlds, divergent timelines, and things that never came to be. It's the very nature of their existence.
http://www.marvunapp.com/list/appalte.htm
It's an alt reality, Universe/Earth 8436 :
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/earthlastgalactus.htm

In What Ifs, the PF is a universe destroyer using nothing but it's own power (I counted at least three times it's done it), yet in 616 reality, the most it destroyed was a solar system (with Necrom as it's pseudo host).

Classic NES
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The effect of both fights was exactly the same. That's all that really matters in the end.

No, they were not. Infact, I'm still trying to interpret your feat. How the destruction of galaxies compares to traveling through infinite realms is beyond me.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Not sure how it went from not being in the same league as Odin/Seth to being of no consequence, but that's your prerogative.


And, I'm not sure how it was even the same league to begin with.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank

A Watching battling Galactus until the universe dies before ultimately dying himself is far more impressive than the likes of Thor or Sentry stalemating Galactus for a time. I mean, I'm seriously not getting how you compare the two completely different scales.

So, you don't understand how a battle reaching it's conclusion sooner rather than a million years later is more impressive?


Originally posted by JakeTheBank


What Galactus low showing are you even talking about? My point is that every character has low showing (high ones too for that matter). Looking at one or the other and arbitrarily deciding that's the level they're consistently on is ridiculous.

I already made my point about Galactus getting the worf effect.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Reference to which one? The Watcher or Odin?

I have, actually.

Where?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

No, they're not on the same scale. The Watchers as a rule have consistently better displays of time/spatial warping than Odin does, though his high end feats are up there. And Surtur has next to none I can think of under his own power and even less powers to counter everything Watchers can do.

What have they done on panel with their spatial abilities besides mutter to themselves about what they could do?

Surtur doesn't need spatial abilities, his destructive abilities are more than enough.

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller


Neither is anymore impressive than the other really .


I beg to differ or maybe I misinterpreting the feat?

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
I beg to differ or maybe I misinterpreting the feat?
Neither seemed anymore impressive than the other . Unless you're injecting personal bias into one feat over the other , I don't see how my point can be contradicted .

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Classic NES
No, they were not. Infact, I'm still trying to interpret your feat. How the destruction of galaxies compares to traveling through infinite realms is beyond me.



And, I'm not sure how it was even the same league to begin with.




So, you don't understand how a battle reaching it's conclusion sooner rather than a million years later is more impressive?




I already made my point about Galactus getting the worf effect.



Where?



What have they done on panel with their spatial abilities besides mutter to themselves about what they could do?

Surtur doesn't need spatial abilities, his destructive abilities are more than enough.

Infinite realities were effected by their output of energy in both fights. The narration was abundantly clear to regard.

They effected the same thing: infinite realities.

facepalm Neither Thor or Sentry have displayed the insane levels of energy needed to fight for eons with the likes of Galactus till the end of the universe. That's the point and it's why they're completely not the same thing. Galactus being "worfed" doesn't change the fact that devoid of plot device and context (ie. hunger) he's easily destroying galaxies.

I already mentioned the feats in general. Unless you're asking for specific issues. Otherwise, take a gander at the Watcher Respect thread if you don't know what they've done.

Rearrange solar systems, travel through time and send people through time at a whim, access alternate realities outside of 616 Marvel. Surtur's destructive power gets endured as easily as they have tanked galaxy busting power or wars waged across infinite reality before he gets BFRed against his will.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
How is it not? I mean, What-If's aren't canon, but Uatu and Watchers in general have the ability to access those alternate worlds, divergent timelines, and things that never came to be. It's the very nature of their existence.
Completely irrelevant . That feat took place in an alternate reality , and has no bearing on what the mainstream versions could do .

What Ifs are considered non-canon anyways .

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Neither seemed anymore impressive than the other .

What does "war waged across infinite rivers of reality" mean to you? How do you interpret that statement. BTW, Odins fight with Seth was being felt across every plane of existence.

Classic NES
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Infinite realities were effected by their output of energy in both fights. The narration was abundantly clear to regard.

They effected the same thing: infinite realities.

Well, since I didn't see the narration. All I had to work with was this: "war waged across infinite rivers of reality"


Originally posted by JakeTheBank

facepalm Neither Thor or Sentry have displayed the insane levels of energy needed to fight for eons with the likes of Galactus till the end of the universe. That's the point and it's why they're completely not the same thing. Galactus being "worfed" doesn't change the fact that devoid of plot device and context (ie. hunger) he's easily destroying galaxies.

Those plot devices didn't come into play against Thor and Sentry. So, that's moot.

Second, they don't need to fight him for eternity since they can handle him in much shorter time frame.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Rearrange solar systems, travel through time and send people through time at a whim, access alternate realities outside of 616 Marvel.

Thor can do 2/3 of those feats alone. This is not impressive, sorry.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Surtur's destructive power gets endured as easily as they have tanked galaxy busting power or wars waged across infinite reality before he gets BFRed against his will.

I'm stilling waiting for that universe busting feat.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
What does "war waged across infinite rivers of reality" mean to you? How do you interpret that statement.
That it was a war waged across all the rivers/planes of reality .
Originally posted by Classic NES

BTW, Odins fight with Seth was being felt across every plane of existence.
Which is no different from a war that is "waged across infinite rivers of reality" .

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller


Which is no different from a war that is "waged across infinite rivers of reality" .

Except the amount of collateral damage.

DarkSaint85
Fine, Uatu breaks the 4th wall, and beats Surtur.

zopzop
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
That it was a war waged across all the rivers/planes of reality .

Which is no different from a war that is "waged across infinite rivers of reality" .
Which isn't really impressive at all. Seeing as how Prof X and Dark Phoenix were able to do it too :
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/101327/2114086-z3fl0_super.jpg

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
Except the amount of collateral damage.
Going by this line of logic then Odin/Seth >>>>>>>> Third Host as the collateral damage from the former battle was dozens of orders of magnitude greater than what the latter battle produced .

Not to mention that most of the collateral damage was limited only to their native continuum . Both the Watcher and skyfather fights were felt across countless planes of reality . From the 2 narrative statements'(which are the root cause of this argument) perspective neither is anymore impressive than the other .

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Classic NES
Well, since I didn't see the narration. All I had to work with was this: "war waged across infinite rivers of reality"




Those plot devices didn't come into play against Thor and Sentry. So, that's moot.

Second, they don't need to fight him for eternity since they can handle him in much shorter time frame.




Thor can do 2/3 of those feats alone. This is not impressive, sorry.




I'm stilling waiting for that universe busting feat.

I posted the scans.

Concerning Thor: the time he could have killed Galactus was a hungry Galactus that had felt pain for the first time in milennia. Consistently, Thor can and has staggered Galactus. Galactus then dismisses him or doesn't even verify him as a threat. It's completely dependent on plot.

Concerning Sentry: We heard it from Spider-Man and X-Man. No further context is elaborated on. If you think Sentry, straight up, without plot device or fighting a hungry Galactus, stalemated him, be my guess. It would be completely based off of nothing he did on panel save "EXPLODING SUNS" hype, but that's it.

Thor can't do 2/3 of those to the scale a Watcher can. Not even close. Even Classic Thor's time manipulation powers were limited compared to Uatu. And Surtur can only bust a universe with Twilight, allegedly. Without it, he has very limited options against a guy who can bend time and space on a whim.

More food for thought: the Celestials, obviously, didn't give a damn about Odin and his peers. They, did, however, deem the Watchers a threat and prepped to beat them.

zopzop
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Going by this line of logic then Odin/Seth >>>>>>>> Third Host as the collateral damage from the former battle was dozens of orders of magnitude greater than what the latter battle produced .
Actually the Odin/Seth throwdown was more impressive, collateral damage wise, than the ENTIRE Cosmic Hierarchy attacking Thanos with the IG simultaneously!

LOL the Asgard wankage is incredible over at Marvel stick out tongue

Classic NES
The differences is that Seth and Odin war was doing massive damage on every level.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by zopzop
Actually the Odin/Seth throwdown was more impressive, collateral damage wise, than the ENTIRE Cosmic Hierarchy attacking Thanos with the IG simultaneously!
And the Galactus vs Scrier & Other battle surpassed that feat . Collateral damage from a fight is hardly a good gauging of power-levels .
Originally posted by zopzop
LOL the Asgard wankage is incredible over at Marvel stick out tongue
Go and tell this to the writers of AVX or Dark Reign .

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
From the 2 narrative statements'(which are the root cause of this argument) perspective neither is anymore impressive than the other .

The narrative mentions ontold destruction on one instance versus another. they are not equal by any means.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And the Galactus vs Scrier & Other battle surpassed that feat . Collateral damage from a fight is hardly a good gauging of power-levels .


You're backpedaling now, you claimed the feats were the same they are not. End of story.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
The differences is that Seth and Odin war was doing massive damage on every level.
Nope , the massive damage was only limited to the 616-continuum , in the form of long dead galaxies being shattered and distant suns being reignited etc .

At the multi-plane of reality level , neither battle was anymore impressive than the other , from both the narratives' perspective .

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
The narrative mentions ontold destruction on one instance versus another. they are not equal by any means.
Nope , in the first case , as pointed out before , its Strange who makes the "could imperil untold galaxies" statement , not the narrative , and even going by his statements its only a likely possibility , not an actual event happening .

As I have mentioned many times before :
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Neither is anymore impressive than the other really .

zopzop
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And the Galactus vs Scrier & Other battle surpassed that feat . Collateral damage from a fight is hardly a good gauging of power-levels.
Exactly! The writers aren't even trying anymore.


As crappy as Thor's showings have been during the AvX event, he still has his moments. Amped Omega Mutant Emma was still unable to cope with his mind. And he did stun the full PF when he hurled Mjolnir at it, causing it to go crashing into a planet.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
The narrative mentions ontold destruction on one instance versus another. they are not equal by any means.

When are you going to stop with this bold-faced lie ? The narrative mentions no such thing , its Strange who makes a statement like that .
Originally posted by Classic NES

You're backpedaling now, you claimed the feats were the same they are not. End of story.
Huh ? I wasn't even responding to you in this instance .

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by zopzop

Exactly! The writers aren't even trying anymore.


As crappy as Thor's showings have been during the AvX event, he still has his moments. Amped Omega Mutant Emma was still unable to cope with his mind. And he did stun the full PF when he hurled Mjolnir at it, causing it to go crashing into a planet.

Marvel's cosmic hierarchy is fickle. Changes with the regime.

thumb up

Classic NES
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I posted the scans.

Concerning Thor: the time he could have killed Galactus was a hungry Galactus that had felt pain for the first time in milennia. Consistently, Thor can and has staggered Galactus. Galactus then dismisses him or doesn't even verify him as a threat. It's completely dependent on plot.


Concerning Sentry: We heard it from Spider-Man and X-Man. No further context is elaborated on. If you think Sentry, straight up, without plot device or fighting a hungry Galactus, stalemated him, be my guess. It would be completely based off of nothing he did on panel save "EXPLODING SUNS" hype, but that's it.

Galactus has worst showings, like when he was cloned and it had a 60% chance of surviving a planetery explosion.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


Thor can't do 2/3 of those to the scale a Watcher can. Not even close. Even Classic Thor's time manipulation powers were limited compared to Uatu. And Surtur can only bust a universe with Twilight, allegedly. Without it, he has very limited options against a guy who can bend time and space on a whim.

Your doing that thing again where you make a statement without a point to back it up. Watcher time manipulation is better how. cause you say so?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

More food for thought: the Celestials, obviously, didn't give a damn about Odin and his peers. They, did, however, deem the Watchers a threat and prepped to beat them.

Odin was weakened during the Celestial saga. His eye was missing. Hell, during the Celestial saga Odin + Zeus + Vishnu combine their power to blast a Celestial; the blast is said to strike with power enough to knock a planet from orbit and Odin wasn't sure he could destroy a planet. That arc is full of PIS.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by zopzop

Exactly! The writers aren't even trying anymore.

Who cares about cosmic power-levels , as long as a good story is written ? Comic book writers write stories to make profit for their company and themselves .

Originally posted by zopzop

As crappy as Thor's showings have been during the AvX event, he still has his moments. Amped Omega Mutant Emma was still unable to cope with his mind. And he did stun the full PF when he hurled Mjolnir at it, causing it to go crashing into a planet.
One or two good showings don't trump a whole plethora of low showings which almost seem to suggest that someone from Marvel has been reading and getting incensed by Rage's posts on this forum , and is pulling of this sh|t just to spite thorbags in general .

What about Dark Reign then ?

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Nope , in the first case , as pointed out before , its Strange who makes the "could imperil untold galaxies" statement , not the narrative , and even going by his statements its only a likely possibility , not an actual event happening .



Try reading the scans next time.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
When are you going to stop with this bold-faced lie ? The narrative mentions no such thing




Yes, it does:

http://i45.tinypic.com/fk5h5i.jpg
"Long dead Galaxies are shattered"
"Distant dying suns are reignited"

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
Odin was weakened during the Celestial saga. His eye was missing. Hell, during the Celestial saga Odin + Zeus + Vishnu combine their power to blast a Celestial; the blast is said to strike with power enough to knock a planet from orbit and Odin wasn't sure he could destroy a planet. That arc is full of PIS.
Ever since he gave it up to get more knowledge , Odin has always been missing his eye .
And he didn't seem much weakened when he put on the Destroyer armor , or when he displayed to ability to manipulate souls of millions of gods .

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Classic NES
Galactus has worst showings, like when he was cloned and it had a 60% chance of surviving a planetery explosion.



Your doing that thing again where you make a statement without a point to back it up. Watcher time manipulation is better how. cause you say so?



Odin was weakened during the Celestial saga. His eye was missing. Hell, during the Celestial saga Odin + Zeus + Vishnu combine their power to blast a Celestial; the blast is said to strike with power enough to knock a planet from orbit and Odin wasn't sure he could destroy a planet. That arc is full of PIS.

And then he one shots galaxies while weakened. What's your point? That Galactus upper and high end feats should be ignored for his lower ones? That's called lowballing.

Because the ease and the scale that he operates? He can deage people with a gesture or rapidly age them until death. He can access timelines and dimensions and realities that Thor simply can't, especially current. It's not because I say so; it's because of what they've done on panel.

erm the Celestials have consistently been portrayed and stated to being above skyfathers conventionally.

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Ever since he gave it up to get more knowledge , Odin has always been missing his eye .
And he didn't seem much weakened when he put on the Destroyer armor , or when he displayed to ability to manipulate souls of millions of gods .

Are you serious?

He wasn't sure he could destroy a planet and 3 skyfathers released a blast that was only capable of knocking a planet off it's orbit. That's way lower than their best.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
Try reading the scans next time.






Yes, it does:

http://i45.tinypic.com/fk5h5i.jpg
"Long dead Galaxies are shattered"
"Distant dying suns are reignited"


I already know that , seeing how I have read that battle so many times . And how does that equate to "untold damage" , something which was thought about by Strange ?

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
Are you serious?

He wasn't sure he could destroy a planet and 3 skyfathers released a blast that was only capable of knocking a planet off it's orbit. That's way lower than their best.
Yes , I am .

His true goal was not the destruction of the planet , but its preservation in the upcoming battle against the Celestials . You can't just assume that he was weaker just because he didn't display his higher end feats in that arc .

Classic NES
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And then he one shots galaxies while weakened. What's your point?

My point is a good showing against Galactus is most certainly always a low showing for him. So, why are you using it for the watcher?

Originally posted by JakeTheBank

Because the ease and the scale that he operates? He can deage people with a gesture or rapidly age them until death. He can access timelines and dimensions and realities that Thor simply can't, especially current. It's not because I say so; it's because of what they've done on panel.


Thor can travel anywhere in the Marvel U. Stated on-panel.


Originally posted by JakeTheBank

erm the Celestials have consistently been portrayed and stated to being above skyfathers conventionally.

Whatever

Doesn't change the fact that the story arch that cemented them as such is filled with low showings for the Gods.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
My point is a good showing against Galactus is most certainly always a low showing for him.
Based on this logic then , if someone with the Infinity Gauntlet is able to overpower Galactus after a long battle , means that its a low showing for him ?

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You can't just assume that he was weaker just because he didn't display his higher end feats in that arc .

He was weaker, he stated so himself. He stated it was beyond his power to destroy a planet and it was later stated that the loss of his eye had weakened him.

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Based on this logic then , if someone with the Infinity Gauntlet is able to overpower Galactus after a long battle , means that its a low showing for him ?
No, since I.G. supremacy doesn't hinge on it beating Galactus. It has alot of other feats that help establish this. Other characters like Tenebrous and Aegis on the other hand don't. It's a case by case basis, but on average it's jobbing. A exception like the I.G. doesn't change that.

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I already know that , seeing how I have read that battle so many times . And how does that equate to "untold damage" , something which was thought about by Strange ?

You're either lying or not reading the scan. The narration mentions galaxies being destroyed, So, your claim that it was only stated by strange is wrong.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Nope , the massive damage was only limited to the 616-continuum ,

Then that means that the watcher was only in the 616 continuum too. Since, according to you they both say the same thing.

Rage.Of.Olympus
Someone prove to me Uatu would win the majority. Curious how he stands up to Surtur because not unlike the Stranger, I find him to be very meh in a great deal of his appearances that I've read in regards to power.

That being said, I've seen an instance or two that treat Watchers with a great deal respect and Odin/Uatu seemed to regard each other as peers IIRC, so even if he might be outmatched the majority of the time, this isn't always the case.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
You're either lying or not reading the scan. The narration mentions galaxies being destroyed, So, your claim that it was only stated by strange is wrong.
Now it appears you're twisting my words , and shifting your stance . I clearly stated that the narration doesn't mention "countless galaxies being destroyed" or "untold damage being caused" , because those type of statements are made by Strange . I am not going to bother posting the scans , since you already posted them.

Originally posted by Classic NES

Then that means that the watcher was only in the 616 continuum too. Since, according to you they both say the same thing.
Again , you're twisting my words . The damage to the galaxies being done by Odin/Seth's battle was limited to a single continuum(presumably 616) . Their battle however was felt across all planes of reality , much like Aron/Uatu's battle was . Throughout this discussion , my comparison has been solely limited to "countless planes of existence" VS "rivers of reality" comparison which clearly does NOT show either to be superior to the other .

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
He was weaker, he stated so himself. He stated it was beyond his power to destroy a planet and it was later stated that the loss of his eye had weakened him.
I recall only one instance of him being weakened in Thor # 300 , and he eventually recovered from it(long before the Celestials arrived) after Gaea appeared to him and convinced him not to sacrifice himself .

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
No, since I.G. supremacy doesn't hinge on it beating Galactus. It has alot of other feats that help establish this. Other characters like Tenebrous and Aegis on the other hand don't. It's a case by case basis, but on average it's jobbing. A exception like the I.G. doesn't change that.
Your statement would have made more sense if you mentioned something along the lines of "Any good showing by a trans or below level character against Galactus is most certainly a low showing for him" .

As it stands , your implied line of logic is full of fail .

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Someone prove to me Uatu would win the majority. Curious how he stands up to Surtur because not unlike the Stranger, I find him to be very meh in a great deal of his appearances that I've read in regards to power.

That being said, I've seen an instance or two that treat Watchers with a great deal respect and Odin/Uatu seemed to regard each other as peers IIRC, so even if he might be outmatched the majority of the time, this isn't always the case.
Well , Uatu did contain a "tiny universe" within himself :
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/56665/1447656- the_watcher_s_high_tribunal_creates_a_universe_for
_uatu__which_he_stores_within_his_own_body..._super.jpg

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Now it appears you're twisting my words , and shifting your stance . I clearly stated that the narration doesn't mention "countless galaxies being destroyed" or "untold damage being caused" , because those type of statements are made by Strange . I am not going to bother posting the scans , since you already posted them.


I'm not gonna play who said what, you claimed that the narrative didn't mention Galaxies. You were wrong.



Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Again , you're twisting my words . The damage to the galaxies being done by Odin/Seth's battle was limited to a single continuum(presumably 616) . Their battle however was felt across all planes of reality



How can you say the damage is localized to 616 only when it was raging across everywhere? Maybe, the damage isn't everywhere, but you cannot say it's only 616 for sure.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I recall only one instance of him being weakened in Thor # 300 , and he eventually recovered from it(long before the Celestials arrived) after Gaea appeared to him and convinced him not to sacrifice himself .

He was also weakened from his prolong time on earth. None of his feats in the Celestial saga are comparable to what he's done in the past. It's a low showing.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Your statement would have made more sense if you mentioned something along the lines of "Any good showing by a trans or below level character against Galactus is most certainly a low showing for him" .

As it stands , your implied line of logic is full of fail .

I implied that friend smile

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
I'm not gonna play who said what, you claimed that the narrative didn't mention Galaxies. You were wrong.

*Sigh* I clearly specified only things like "untold damage" and "countless galaxies" because that is something the narrative did NOT mention .
Originally posted by Classic NES

How can you say the damage is localized to 616 only when it was raging across everywhere? Maybe, the damage isn't everywhere, but you cannot say it's only 616 for sure.

Because that is exactly what is described on-panel . A battle being felt or waged across the multiple planes of reality isn't the same as a battle destroying multiple planes of reality . This is the only regard in which my argument has been with you . The narrative's description of the destuction is limited to a bunch of galaxies being destroyed and suns being reignited , while Strange's account(which is more generous) only ascribes a "potential" imperilment of countless galaxies .
Originally posted by Classic NES

He was also weakened from his prolong time on earth. None of his feats in the Celestial saga are comparable to what he's done in the past. It's a low showing.

Where was this mentioned within that particular story-arc ? He spent a thousand years prepping for the Celestials' return in Asgard itself anyways , so that point should be moot anyways .

Originally posted by Classic NES

I implied that friend smile
Where ?

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
*Sigh* I clearly specified only things like "untold damage" and "countless galaxies" because that is something the narrative did NOT mention .

The narrative mentions galaxies. Which is what I'm debating.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

The narrative's description of the destuction is limited to a bunch of galaxies being destroyed and suns being reignited , while Strange's account(which is more generous) only ascribes a "potential" imperilment of countless galaxies

But, we don't know where the damage is localized. You can't say it's limited to one universe and not others. It's ambigious and you're assuming.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Where was this mentioned within that particular story-arc ? He spent a thousand years prepping for the Celestials' return in Asgard itself anyways , so that point should be moot anyways .


At the time, AISTR, it was beyond Odin's power to destroy even a sinlge planet. And, ISTR, preceeding the clash between the Celestials and the Destroyer, Thor faced Odin in combat and actually had a considerable chance at defeating his father had he not restrained himself.

It was later revealed that the loss of his eye did in fact contribute to a wane in his power during the Celectial Saga. Once Odin reclaimed his eye, the comment was made that he had regained his full power. Later on Odin would become even more powerful when he absorbed Surtur's power. In any case, no matter how it's looked at, the Odin that appeared in the Celestial saga was not a good benchmark.


Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Where ?

Go back and read what I stated.

guy222
uatu wins

ODG
^ Yea, probably.

guy222
thumb up

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
The narrative mentions galaxies. Which is what I'm debating.

You were discussing something else a page ago , as these posts show :
Originally posted by Classic NES
The narrative mentions ontold destruction on one instance versus another.
Originally posted by Classic NES
I'm just saying, which is a better demonstration of power: "Travels through infinite realms" or destroying countless galaxies?

Originally posted by Classic NES

But, we don't know where the damage is localized. You can't say it's limited to one universe and not others. It's ambigious and you're assuming.

Nope , its not ambiguous at all . Jean Grey and Silver Surfer's commentary states that the damage is limited to the universe/continuum . The same is true of those shadowy figures shown in the Strange scan . Even if one should disregard character-commentary , the narrative is very clear that "battle is felt across every plane of existence" , and "causes a shockwave which ripples across every plane of reality" and that's it .

Originally posted by Classic NES

At the time, AISTR, it was beyond Odin's power to destroy even a sinlge planet. And, ISTR, preceeding the clash between the Celestials and the Destroyer, Thor faced Odin in combat and actually had a considerable chance at defeating his father had he not restrained himself.

Didn't that incident(Odin vs Thor) happen in Thor # 291 ? Anyways , it didn't really precede the Destroyer/Celestials battle , because Thor was in space at that period , and by the time he returned to Asgard , Odin had already drained his and the rest of the Asgardians' spirits into the Destroyer .
And I ask again , where was it stated that his power was low during Thor#300 ? Specifically after his ordeal and Gaea appearing to him .

Originally posted by Classic NES

It was later revealed that the loss of his eye did in fact contribute to a wane in his power during the Celectial Saga. Once Odin reclaimed his eye, the comment was made that he had regained his full power. Later on Odin would become even more powerful when he absorbed Surtur's power. In any case, no matter how it's looked at, the Odin that appeared in the Celestial saga was not a good benchmark.

Well , then I guess in most of his appearances , Odin has been weak and at low power .

Originally posted by Classic NES

Go back and read what I stated.
I already did .

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You were discussing something else a page ago , as these posts show :

Are you even bothering to read the post you quote at all?
I didn't quote strange, I said Untold destruction in one post and countless galaxies in the other. Which isn't what strange stated at all.


Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Nope , its not ambiguous at all . Jean Grey and Silver Surfer's commentary states that the damage is limited to the universe/continuum .

Silver Surfer? WTF?

That was Professor X and there was no destruction of Galaxies mentioned. Did you read that comic?


Originally posted by TheGodKiller

"battle is felt across every plane of existence" , and "causes a shockwave which ripples across every plane of reality" and that's it .

And Galaxies being destroyed. So, that's not it.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Didn't that incident(Odin vs Thor) happen in Thor # 291 ? Anyways , it didn't really precede the Destroyer/Celestials battle , because Thor was in space at that period , and by the time he returned to Asgard , Odin had already drained his and the rest of the Asgardians' spirits into the Destroyer .

But, he was still weakened and it doesn't matter since he never displayed his average showings.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

And I ask again , where was it stated that his power was low during Thor#300 ? Specifically after his ordeal and Gaea appearing to him .


Where did I mention Thor 300?

I stated that he also claimed he was weakened by his extended peroid on earth.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Well , then I guess in most of his appearances , Odin has been weak and at low power .

In the Celestial saga for sure.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

I already did .

You obviously failed then. The average fight with Galactus is a low showing, he's a reputable jobber. Due to things like hunger and what not.

TheGodKiller
Originally posted by Classic NES
Are you even bothering to read the post you quote at all?
I didn't quote strange, I said Untold destruction in one post and countless galaxies in the other. Which isn't what strange stated at all.

Its pretty clear then that you never bothered to read his statements beyond the "this battle is tearing at teh fabric of multiverse!!!!1!!!11" part .

Originally posted by Classic NES

Silver Surfer? WTF?

That was Professor X and there was no destruction of Galaxies mentioned. Did you read that comic?

Its pretty clear that it is YOU who never read that comic beyond those few oversized scans you posted :
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/6706/sethvsweakenedodin42nt.jpg
"Forces powerful enough to rock our continuum are in conflict !"

Because Professor X is a naked silver colored guy who rides in space on a surfboard , right ?

Originally posted by Classic NES

And Galaxies being destroyed. So, that's not it.

My argument has only pertained to that particular aspect of the debate .

Originally posted by Classic NES

But, he was still weakened and it doesn't matter since he never displayed his average showings.

Again what proof do you have beyond reiterating this same stance repeatedly ?

Originally posted by Classic NES

Where did I mention Thor 300?

Thor 300 is where the battle was set . And in that comic , nothing Odin did seemed to suggest that he was weakened(apart from being jobbed to the Celestials that is) .

Originally posted by Classic NES

I stated that he also claimed he was weakened by his extended peroid on earth.

Provide proof for this as well then .

Originally posted by Classic NES

In the Celestial saga for sure.

If you want to argue that from the point of view that he was being jobbed to the Celestials , then sure . Otherwise nothing he did in that comic itself suggests any such thing .

Originally posted by Classic NES

You obviously failed then. The average fight with Galactus is a low showing, he's a reputable jobber. Due to things like hunger and what not.
Your logic failed you and if you're too dense to realize this then I am not going to bother discussing this anymore .

Classic NES
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Its pretty clear then that you never bothered to read his statements beyond the "this battle is tearing at teh fabric of multiverse!!!!1!!!11" part .

And, it's pretty clear that you have no point now.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Its pretty clear that it is YOU who never read that comic beyond those few oversized scans you posted :
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/6706/sethvsweakenedodin42nt.jpg
"Forces powerful enough to rock our continuum are in conflict !"

Because Professor X is a naked silver colored guy who rides in space on a surfboard , right ?

You said silver surfer and Jean grey:

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Nope , its not ambiguous at all . Jean Grey and Silver Surfer's commentary states that the damage is limited to the universe/continuum .


It's obvious that you were mistaking it for the scan that was posted earlier featuring Dark Phoenix fighting Xavier on every plane of existence.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

My argument has only pertained to that particular aspect of the debate .

So, how is it the same as Uatu battling on every plane of existence. If Galaxies were only destroyed in this instance?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Again what proof do you have beyond reiterating this same stance repeatedly ?

The fact that he didn't have his eye or when he stated that destroying a planet was beyond his power or when three sky fathers channeling their power could only knock a planet out of it's orbit.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Thor 300 is where the battle was set . And in that comic , nothing Odin did seemed to suggest that he was weakened(apart from being jobbed to the Celestials that is) .

One issue among a story arch full of low showings.


Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Provide proof for this as well then .


I gave you the reference.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

If you want to argue that from the point of view that he was being jobbed to the Celestials , then sure .

So, we agree?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller

Your logic failed you and if you're too dense to realize this then I am not going to bother discussing this anymore .

Ad Hominem.

Provide an argument next time please.

guy222
still liking uatu here

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