Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

W/c MMO has the more powerful dragons?

Deathwing
Malygos
Nozdormu
Ysera
Alexstrasza

vs.

Zhaitan
Jormag
Primordus
Kralkatorrik
Deep Sea Dragon

5 dragon aspects vs 5 elder dragons

2 MMOs.

Who wins?

His name is Bubbles, not the Deep Sea Dragon

I know next to nothing about the WoW ones (I don't play crappy games), but considering how much the elder dragons completely ****ed things up...yeah.

Primordus just starting to wake up drove the asura to the surface, Jormag's rising wrecked the northern part of the Shiverpeaks and drove the norn and kodan south, Zhaitan essentially sat up and brought an entire sunken continent to the surface with him, Kralkatorrik corrupted a huge swath of the continent so that almost anything that enters it becomes crystal (as well as shutting off travel to another continent), Bubbles has the entire southern oceans in it's grip so that travel cannot be done...

There's also the fact that the dragons are described as being essentially Lovecraft-like elder gods - they don't care about mortals. They're completely unable to be reasoned with in any manner.

Plus there's the fact that Zhaitan is actually a being made up of thousands of smaller dragons.

So...yeah.

Isn't Deathwing a life-wiper? As in, he was going to turn the world into a wasteland? He restructured the face of the world in Cataclysm iirc.

And Nozdormu has mastery of Time. He can look into the corridors of time and repeat events if they do not progress as he feels they should. Thats a pretty tough ability to beat.

What did Deathwing actually do in the Shattering of Cataclysm?

Really, nobody?

I don't play WoW. All my info came from the Outskirts Battledrome. I think EvilAngel was the gal who knew stuff about the Lich King and co. Maybe try tracked her down.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Really, nobody?

Never played Cata. Stopped around LK. Would love to know how the GW2 dragons (w/c are all badass) would stack up against the WoW dragons, tho.

After Cataclysm, the Aspects have been depowered and became mortal. In this state, they would obviously lose. At their most powerful, the Aspects would probably win.

As for Deathwing, he caused planet-wide damage and was going to destroy the world altogether.

Korialstrasz, Medivh, Cho'Gall Vs Deathwing

Deathwing vs Dante

Akatosh vs Nozdormu.

Best I can come up with GK. I was wrong though, looks like Q'Anila is quite the expert.

Akatosh would ragestomp Nozdormu.

I now know the truth.

Okay, from those links, as far as I can tell... the elder dragons are more powerful than the dragon aspects - with the exception of Nozdormu's mastery of time, which seems to be an instant win regardless of details. This is also hinging on the fact that most of the elder dragons have not shown the full extent of their abilities, and I can only work with what is actually known about them.

Deathwing himself honestly seems like a smaller Primordus, without the instantly summonable Destroyer army. However, while Primordus rent Tyria asunder, drove several underground species to the surface while clearing out massive tracts of subterranean caverns, melted the southern portion of an icy mountain range with a massive volcano, and kicked off the whole awakening cycle, it actually has been behind the scenes for most of the centuries it's been awake, and thus there are no direct feats.

Jormag has been more active, with several champions enslaved to its will. Jormag has been described as ice that creeps and consumes the world around it, and even indirectly is capable of corrupting its enemies to fight for it. In fact it did so nearly a century before it was even conscious, its sleeping power channeled through its sleeping champion to transform an innocent norn into a savage, cunning beast of ice. When Jormag awoke, its stirring cracked the northernmost lands, flooding the Far Shiverpeaks and creating new inland seas. It was thought to be completely invulnerable until (with the help of the Spirits of the Wild) one of the mightiest norn heroes, Asgeir, cut out its tooth, which is now in Hoelbrak and stands as a test to all norn. A century and a half later the tooth still stands unbroken.

Kralkatorrik was the last to rise, and that action broke the Blood Legion Homelands. It flew south, leaving black clouds and lightning in its wake, and its breath created the miles-long Dragonbrand that runs from the Homelands, through the entirety of Ascalon, and ends in the Crystal Desert where Kralkatorrik now resides, completely cutting off the continent of Elona. The Brand spawned the branded, monstrosities that used to be living creatures, now corrupted by crystal and stone. Kralkatorrik itself can become a ravaging sandstorm that blots out the sun.

Zhaitan is the dragon dealt with most directly, and the one that the most is known about. Its awakening dragged the lost continent of Orr (basically Atlantis, and the former seat of the human Gods) out of the ocean, and its mere proximity brought thousands of corpses back to life. It then raised the sunken ships in the Sea of Sorrows, creating a massive formidable navy that makes passage to Cantha impossible. Naturally, anyone who tries soon joins Zhaitan's army. Zhaitan itself is composed of the corpses of many smaller dragons, and its eyes and mouths are conscious entities that can move around and direct battles on their own.

Basically, the elder dragons are lovecraftian horrors on a whole different level. They destroy and corrupt all that they encounter, and their goal, if it can even be called a goal, is the complete annihilation of the planet. Considering that they simply embody the concept of fire, ice, death, etc. I don't see how a battle with the dragon Aspects could lead to anything but victory - again, disregarding Nozdormu's apparent always-win button.

Don't forget the fact that one of the five main races of Tyria came into existence essentially to combat the dragons...

There's also the fact that there's evidence that the last time they rose they completely wiped out a race into extinction.

Deathwing destroyed a planet just by beating his wings.

...was it a small planet?

iirc it was stated to be about three times the size of the moon.

So where in the lore did that happen?

Because this thing is not blowing away a planet with its wings.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Deathwing destroyed a planet just by beating his wings.

When?

Originally posted by General Kaliero
So where in the lore did that happen?

Because this thing is not blowing away a planet with its wings. Aye, and this guy can't bust planets. Look how human sized he is.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Aye, and this guy can't bust planets. Look how human sized he is.

Deathwing was going to destroy the planet, but even for him it takes more than just flapping his wings.

You must not be caught up with the fluff

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
You must not be caught up with the fluff

Oh? So when did Deathwing destroy a planet?

In WoW.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
In WoW.

Azeroth got a bit of a makeover, but it's still very much not destroyed.

Not Azeroth- he destroyed a planet that was roughly 3 times the size of our moon.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Not Azeroth- he destroyed a planet that was roughly 3 times the size of our moon.

Please don't tell me the name of that planet is Draenor/Outland.

If you're referring to the Shattering in Cataclysm, Blax, Azeroth is not at all destroyed, merely scarred. The races weren't even all that displaced, whereas the similar attacks in GW2 drove the charr, asura, norn, and humans, as well as the minor quaggan, skritt, tengu, kodan, and dredge races out of their respective homes. The dwarves went extinct fighting Primordus.

Reading up...I find absolutely no indication that Deathwing has ever destroyed the world.

There's the one ArtificialGlory mentions, in Warcraft...but that actually had nothing to do with Deathwing. That was ruined by someone else entirely.

Truth is, however, that Deathwing can indeed destroy a planet. In an alternate future, in which Deathwing won, Azeroth was turned into a cinder.

I haven't heard anything about the GW dragons that matches that kind of power. GK say that their goal is the destruction of the planet. Deathwing alone can accomplish what they all try to do. So I'd say this goes to WoW.

Honestly, Deathwing alone conquering Azeroth simply makes Azeroth look weak, not Deathwing strong.

Deathwing appears to be the size and approximate power level, in game, of Tequatl the Sunless, one of Zhaitan's minions in GW2.

Size isn't everything. Deathwing is immensely powerful and it took a LOT to put him down.

Deathwing can be put down.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Deathwing can be put down.

So can pretty much anyone.

The last time the elder dragons were awake was 11,000 years in the past, and the best efforts of five powerful races could do nothing but flee and hide until the dragons slept again. One race magically fled Tyria, and the rest had to be hidden by Kralkatorrik's traitorous minion.

We don't know that they actually can be put down, even through cooperative continent-wide efforts.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Honestly, Deathwing alone conquering Azeroth simply makes Azeroth look weak, not Deathwing strong.

Deathwing appears to be the size and approximate power level, in game, of Tequatl the Sunless, one of Zhaitan's minions in GW2.

He doesn't conquer Azeroth, he unleashed his final cataclysm which destroys all life. The only thing the GW Dragons have on him is size.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
The last time the elder dragons were awake was 11,000 years in the past, and the best efforts of five powerful races could do nothing but flee and hide until the dragons slept again. One race magically fled Tyria, and the rest had to be hidden by Kralkatorrik's traitorous minion.

We don't know that they actually can be put down, even through cooperative continent-wide efforts.

It took the combined effort of the Dragons aspect, Thrall, the players, and the Demon Soul to put Deathwing down... That's a ridicilous amount of fire power.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
The last time the elder dragons were awake was 11,000 years in the past, and the best efforts of five powerful races could do nothing but flee and hide until the dragons slept again. One race magically fled Tyria, and the rest had to be hidden by Kralkatorrik's traitorous minion.

We don't know that they actually can be put down, even through cooperative continent-wide efforts.

There's speculation that the sixth race was completely destroyed and driven to extinction.

Even with the current dragons, one race went extinct just to slow the awakening of one of them.

And, as I pointed out already, there's the fact that one of the current major races came into being specifically because of the threat the dragons present.

Originally posted by ares834
He doesn't conquer Azeroth, he unleashed his final cataclysm which destroys all life. The only thing the GW Dragons have on him is size.



It took the combined effort of the Dragons aspect, Thrall, the players, and the Demon Soul to put Deathwing down... That's a ridicilous amount of fire power.

Except that Deathwing did not destroy all life. What happened in some alternate future is pretty irrelevant because they can make up whatever they want and say that's what happened without anything to actually back it up.

Originally posted by Peach
Except that Deathwing did not destroy all life. What happened in some alternate future is pretty irrelevant because they can make up whatever they want and say that's what happened without anything to actually back it up.

He is preparing to unleash his final cataclysm when the players battle him. The only reason it doesn't go off is because he is killed before he can unleash it.

Originally posted by ares834
He is preparing to unleash his final cataclysm when the players battle him. The only reason it doesn't go off is because he is killed before he can unleash it.

So in other words no one actually knows for sure what would have happened, and it's all just a guess.

Considering we see the alternate future where the players fail, no.

If we have evidence of what happens if he unleashes it then its a bit more than a guess imo.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
The last time the elder dragons were awake was 11,000 years in the past, and the best efforts of five powerful races could do nothing but flee and hide until the dragons slept again. One race magically fled Tyria, and the rest had to be hidden by Kralkatorrik's traitorous minion.

We don't know that they actually can be put down, even through cooperative continent-wide efforts.

Continent-wide efforts by the mortal races would have been a laugh to Deathwing if it weren't for the other Aspects and the Demon Soul(one of the most powerful artifacts in Warcraft history).

Also, the whole alternate future thing is not a guess -- we get to see it in End Time.

And yet, Deathwing can still be felled in direct combat with a small group of determined mortals.

No, he was felled by Thrall using the Demon Soul.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
And yet, Deathwing can still be felled in direct combat with a small group of determined mortals.

That's how these things go. A guy can go and solo Illidan, The Lich King, Archimonde, etc. nowadays. At any rate, the player characters only contributed to the fight.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
And yet, Deathwing can still be felled in direct combat with a small group of determined mortals. That only proves the mortals are strong. Not that Deathwing is weak.

Dragon Aspects for the win.

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
Deathwing destroyed a planet just by beating his wings.

No.

I have read all of the Warcraft books this summer, so no.

I do not know anything about these Guild Wars 2 dragons, but I can tell you in confidence that the Warcraft ones are being blown out of proportion. I looked through the threads and I agree with a lot that is mentioned around them, but we have next to never seen them go all out on any one situation.

Malygos sought to erase the Dragon Soul from existence and proved to have the means of doing so with a ray of "erase". Deathwing however proved to have the magical means of repelling this, which means that even their most powerful magic is not infallible.

There are several complications in including these Warcraft dragons in a fight. Much comes down to personality. Deathwing is a show-off, Malygos is an arrogant prick, Nozdormu would barely lift a claw to help his dying bretheren, Ysera would sleep through most of it and Alexstrasza would try to negotiate with them.

Nozdormu, arguably, is the most powerful character in this thread, and he doesn't care about winning. For as long as none of the participants threaten the stability of spacetime, he will just shrug it off.

But let's say that their personalities are distorted for a moment:

- Nozdormu should be excluded from the thread. He has shown so extensive power of time that he has duplicated himself by borrowing his presence from alternate timelines, he has reversed time for his benefit, has proven capable of erasing someone (literally) from existence. They or their deeds will never have existed. How I'll translate another point into a versus, I'm not sure, but he's shown able to grip spacetime as if it was a solid thing, as when the Old Gods threatened to undo it all with their failed magics, he had to physically hold it all together while Korialstrasz and Rhonin solved the problem.

Exclude him from the battle, and it might be a fair fight. Bar Malygos, none of the others have really impressed me in terms of battle.

- Deathwing is clumsy, something more than one opponent has abused. He holds some dangerous magic, and is highly resilient against the same, but he failed to kill Malygos even with the Dragon Soul, and there was no indication that he didn't want to. Every other dragon was eliminated in the blast.

When the Cataclysm came, it was because Deathwing was in agony. There is no showing that he could replicate that activity, should he want to. He was in great pain, and upon screaming and squirming, sent tidalwaves across Azeroth, shook mountains and erupted volcanos. He isn't the first character to display increased power when not being consciously magically active. Medivh, Darion Mograine and Anveena are examples of this. None has shown the ability consciously replicate their most powerful feats.

- Malygos, excluding Nozdormu, can probably do the most damage in this fight. Deathwing is mostly resilient and beats the other aspects with average destructive powers to their softer durability. Alextrasza alone beat Deathwing at one point, and she is the weakest in the lot.


I could go on, but I am getting lazy. Having read the books, though, all of them, I can tell you that if you have any questions regarding the dragons, I should very well be able to answer them. If not with yes or no, then by letting you know that there is no legitimate way of knowing this or that.

Sadly, as I know nothing at all about the enemies, I can not give you a proper opinion on who I think wins, but seeing as you might need a little information on the Warcraft dragons, I offer my services.

Originally posted by ares834
He is preparing to unleash his final cataclysm when the players battle him. The only reason it doesn't go off is because he is killed before he can unleash it. Originally posted by Peach
So in other words no one actually knows for sure what would have happened, and it's all just a guess.

Three points in the name of justice:

1. We do not know how the final cataclysm would happen, even when we know that it did. For all we know, it could have taken years for it to come to the point we saw in the future.

2. Deathwing was dead in the same future vision. For all we know, the action killed him. It is no secret that Deathwing was nothing short of a walking corpse, because of his insides having turned into molten lava.

3. Nozdormu knows. Sadly, that does not help us much

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
No.

I have read all of the Warcraft books this summer, so no.
You must have missed a page then, unfortunately.

Which page, in what book? I have them all here.

In fact, just tell me the book and I can mention every activity Deathwing has had in it right now.

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
Much comes down to personality. Deathwing is a show-off, Malygos is an arrogant prick, Nozdormu would barely lift a claw to help his dying bretheren, Ysera would sleep through most of it and Alexstrasza would try to negotiate with them.

While this is partially true, the Dragon Aspects can also be quite ruthless as demonstrated when they attacked Deathwing after having gotten the majority of their power back as a result of the destruction of the Demon soul.

They had a very good reason, then. And it was mostly Alextrasza whose emotions ran wild. They have nothing against these dragons, not personally or otherwise.

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
They had a very good reason, then. And it was mostly Alextrasza whose emotions ran wild. They have nothing against these dragons, not personally or otherwise.

And that matters why? This is a vs thread, it's assumed that both parties will fight to the best of their abilities. Same in the comic vs thread, even if the character is known not to fight in the comics it is still to be assumed that the Character will fight in the matchup. That is why the incident with the dragon aspects fight against Deathwing is more telling for the way they will address this fight (since it is a battle) then say their ordinary mindset when going about their daily business laughning at mortals. Same with say Sargeras vs Rhonin, Rhonin wouldn't even register on Sargeras radar but we still assume that they both will fight the other opponent to the best of their abilities.

Do you fight the same in a bar fight as you would if finding out someone has abused your children? Because that is the difference here. Alexstrasza had been forced to watch her children being abused for her entire time in captivity and was not just a little bit angry, while this fight here is "a wild elder dragon appears".

I'm not saying they wouldn't fight. I'm just saying there's a difference between vengeance and a random brawn.

Originally posted by Pinkie Pie
Do you fight the same in a bar fight as you would if finding out someone has abused your children? Because that is the difference here. Alexstrasza had been forced to watch her children being abused for her entire time in captivity and was not just a little bit angry, while this fight here is "a wild elder dragon appears".

I'm not saying they wouldn't fight. I'm just saying there's a difference between vengeance and a random brawn.

Cool, I was under the impression that you with your previous post describing the Dragons individual mindsets was arguing that the Dragon Aspects wouldn't even engage the GW2 dragons in a fight because of they way they are.

That isn't what she said at all, *****.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Cool, I was under the impression that you with your previous post describing the Dragons individual mindsets was arguing that the Dragon Aspects wouldn't even engage the GW2 dragons in a fight because of they way they are. Knowing Malygos and Deathwing, they would probably even be the agitators.

Originally posted by NemeBro
That isn't what she said at all, *****.

Yes it was, come at me bro!

WoW dragons win.

Good necro, good necro.