Batman vs Colossus

bluewaterrider

Wait a minute.

Batman keeps a variety of chemicals in his utility belt, doesn't he?

Powerful acids, bases, liquid nitrogen capsules, that sort of thing?

Has Peter's armor ever shown to be vulnerable to temperature extremes or acids? Certainly Batman comes equipped with smoke grenades and phosphor flares and what not. If Peter IS vulnerable to any of the wide array of substances Bruce carries with him, Bruce certainly has the ability to blind and confuse Peter long enough to do a pinpoint attack that might bring him down. (I would expect a small level explosive to the eyes to do at least SOME damage, for instance...)

Someone like Bruce could do a lot with the basic knowledge the general versus rules outline. Organic steel? As in some form of hard carbon metal?

Most people don't realize how "destructible" most substances are if you only try the right kind of compound, and Batman carries a ton of 'em...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Diamonds are NOT forever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mKqtT8J2ms
(2 min 46 sec)

KingD19

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Wait a minute.

Batman keeps a variety of chemicals in his utility belt, doesn't he?

Powerful acids, bases, liquid nitrogen capsules, that sort of thing?

Has Peter's armor ever shown to be vulnerable to temperature extremes or acids? Certainly Batman comes equipped with smoke grenades and phosphor flares and what not. If Peter IS vulnerable to any of the wide array of substances Bruce carries with him, Bruce certainly has the ability to blind and confuse Peter long enough to do a pinpoint attack that might bring him down. (I would expect a small level explosive to the eyes to do at least SOME damage, for instance...)

Someone like Bruce could do a lot with the basic knowledge the general versus rules outline. Organic steel? As in some form of hard carbon metal?

Most people don't realize how "destructible" most substances are if you only try the right kind of compound, and Batman carries a ton of 'em...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Diamonds are NOT forever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mKqtT8J2ms
(2 min 46 sec)

Colossus has been exposed to absolute zero and was stated by Iceman to be the only one who could survive it. He's been hit with liquid nitro point blank and been fine. He's also been heated white hot by Pyro and been fine. As well as been the only one capable of handling a miniature sun in the heart of a planet. He's even shrugged off a continuous blast of liquid napalm from Vindaloo. As for the smoke, he can thunderclap it away. And his metal is supposedly similar to Osmium, but Batman wouldn't know that, as it hasn't even really been stated in comics. Just that it's a form of organic steel.

Batman really doesn't have a leg to stand on. Because Colossus broke it.

juggernaut74

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
I dont think batmans car is doing anything

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/51954/1004388-img008zy0_super.jpg What is that from? Is is cannon?

If Storm can rock Colossus with a kick I'd bet the Bat-kick can do him in.

KingD19

Originally posted by juggernaut74
What is that from? Is is cannon?

If Storm can rock Colossus with a kick I'd bet the Bat-kick can do him in.

Yeah it's cannon. And that fight was utter PIS. He falls 55,000 feet and gets injured? Storm can make his head move? Yet earlier when they were fighting the Celestial, he got a hole blown clean through his torso, that was almost the size of his torso and he was fine. Even before that on Breakworld he fell from near orbit and was perfectly okay. That pissed me off.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by KingD19
Yet earlier when they were fighting the Celestial, he got a hole blown clean through his torso, that was almost the size of his torso and he was fine.

Dude, you're REALLY exagerrating. It wasn't that bad erm

A hole blown clean through the torso is what She-Hulk and Wolverine did to Wendigo.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
I dont think batmans car is doing anything

Batmobile has beaten Amazo...

JayDaDon

Originally posted by juggernaut74

If Storm can rock Colossus with a kick...

That was some epic horsesh*t. I couldn't believe what I was seeing on the page.

StiltmanFTW

Storm rocked Ursa Major with a kick, too.

She's a good martial artist stick out tongue

pym-ftw

ColossusGrundy

This is spite. Batman has NOTHING he can use to affect Piotr. The only reason Bruce is somewhat a match for Supes is the Kryptonite ring.

Peter 10/10, easily.

-Pr-

Batman can't replicate what Pyro and Avalanche did to Colossus.

Plus, iirc didn't Colossus show an immunity to acid once?

KingD19

Acid, magic, heat and cold(not at the same time), etc... He even withstood Storm's lightning for a few minutes as he acted as a lightning rod so she could charge Cyclops. Iirc the metal platform they were on started to melt from the heat.

ColossusGrundy

Batman has NOTHING in his arsenal strong enough to even make Piotr blink.

Placidity

Originally posted by ColossusGrundy
Batman has NOTHING in his arsenal strong enough to even make Piotr blink.

What if he took his clothes off?

ColossusGrundy

Originally posted by Placidity
What if he took his clothes off?

He would get cold, Piotr would laugh at his shrinkage and Bruce Wayne would slink away embarrassed.

SamZED

Originally posted by KingD19
Acid, magic, heat and cold(not at the same time), etc... He even withstood Storm's lightning for a few minutes as he acted as a lightning rod so she could charge Cyclops. Iirc the metal platform they were on started to melt from the heat. Yet somehow in the recent X-men issue Storm almost killed him with a single thunderbolt... but since it's the same issue where she rocked him with a kick im not surprised.

KingD19

Originally posted by SamZED
Yet somehow in the recent X-men issue Storm almost killed him with a single thunderbolt... but since it's the same issue where she rocked him with a kick im not surprised.

I'm calling PIS in that issue man. Classic Colossus fell from I think several miles up, made a mile wide crater and was just fine. Colossus on Breakworld fell from near orbit and was fine. Colossus has been used as a makeshift bomb before by dropping him from really high. Yet after he gets the Juggernaut power, gets a hole blasted in his chest and walks it off, and all this other stuff. A fall from 55,000 feet "injures" him? Storm kicks him and it actually affects him? The whole issue reeks of piss.

BlackWind

Without prior knowledge and prep, Batman isn't beating someone like Colossus in a random encounter. I don't care how you Bat-wank it, Bruce loses.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Piotr was nearly killed by Pyro, when he was first frozen with liquid nitrogen and then blasted with intense fire.

Thanks for this info, Pym.

Once you gave me that much, Googling yielded the following link, which I'm editing this post to add; my image attachment
has the relevant descriptive text to pinpoint and/or go with that scan:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=77&page=3

Then with that, given that this is a scenario match-up, that Batman has all his ordinary gear, and that Batman also has all of New York City to work with, the answer is "Yes, Batman CAN bring down Colossus".

It won't be majority wins for Batman.
It won't be a pure hand-to-hand.

What you'll have instead is a mini version of Spider-man versus Juggernaut, with Batman taking Spider-man's role and Colossus that of Juggernaut; perhaps even with similar odds.

It is possible for a peak human to survive an errant, non-accurate blow from Colossus, even if Colossus isn't holding back. Cyclops proved that when he took a slam-punch combination from Colossus in the original Dark Phoenix aftersaga.

It's possible for a human level opponent to manipulate Colossus weight and take him off his feet. Again, proved by Cyclops when he fought not only Colossus but the rest of his teammates as well in the aforementioned skirmish. Currently you can refer to the Cyclops respect thread and see this in one of Black Adam's posts.
If time permits, I'll show perhaps 3 of those relevant images here myself. Significant to note that Cyclops fought most of that battle with busted ribs, pointing out point 3 ...

It's possible for a human level opponent to outdistance and outmanuever Colossus. Dude is slow. He's ground bound and cannot fly. He also has a temper and can be goaded into rushing or following an opponent without really paying attention to his surroundings or even where he's going.
Again, see Cyclops versus the X-Men, post Dark Phoenix.

Maybe I've been sleeping, but I haven't even seen where Colossus has significant leaping ability, in contrast to a character like Hulk.

Find a way to drop him down a sewer, or use an explosive batarang to collapse the street around him to achieve the same effect, and it should take Petey a little while to get topside again.
I imagine it would be easy for Batman to break into and hotwire a nearby vehicle to crash into him, if only to prove to himself that doesn't work, as general forum rules say he should know Piotr could no-sell anyway, but there's a whole city of options Bruce can try against Colossus that he wouldn't be able to make work against the leaper and flyer or speedster version of tank Bruce is used to.

Colossus, however, unless someone can prove to me otherwise, is pure tank; you only need find something to mess with those treads ...

Pyro and Avalanche proved the combination of hot then cold is enough to break Colossus' resistance to either extreme by itself.

Note also that Batman only need to affect a relatively small area of Colossus like that to get a win NOT his whole body.
Shatter a kneecap for instance, an action perfectly within the character M.O. and limits of Batman, and Big C is down on the ground as you asked.

bluewaterrider

Also:

I would need to see Peter thunderclapping to believe he can use such a thing in a fight. There's a strength threshhold you've got to pass before that becomes an option, after all. Not just anybody with any level of superstrength can do it, else you'd see Spider-man pulling that move all the time.

Piotr has always been Marvel's little-est "big" man.
Prove to me the thunderclap is something he's allowed to play with, please.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of sound attacks, has anyone ever used one on Petey?
I'm recalling now that hypersonics have dropped even Juggernaut, and that Batman, surprise, surprise, happens to carry a hypersonic emitter on his person. Least every version I'VE seen of Batman does.

Somebody please respond and let me know if Colossus has any sound resistance I'm not aware of. If anything, that metal body of his should MAGNIFY the effect of audio.

godking

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Thanks for this info, Pym.

Once you gave me that much, Googling yielded the following link, which I'm editing this post to add; my image attachment
has the relevant descriptive text to pinpoint and/or go with that scan:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=77&page=3

Then with that, given that this is a scenario match-up, that Batman has all his ordinary gear, and that Batman also has all of New York City to work with, the answer is "Yes, Batman CAN bring down Colossus".

It won't be majority wins for Batman.
It won't be a pure hand-to-hand.

What you'll have instead is a mini version of Spider-man versus Juggernaut, with Batman taking Spider-man's role and Colossus that of Juggernaut; perhaps even with similar odds.

It is possible for a peak human to survive an errant, non-accurate blow from Colossus, even if Colossus isn't holding back. Cyclops proved that when he took a slam-punch combination from Colossus in the original Dark Phoenix aftersaga.

It's possible for a human level opponent to manipulate Colossus weight and take him off his feet. Again, proved by Cyclops when he fought not only Colossus but the rest of his teammates as well in the aforementioned skirmish. Currently you can refer to the Cyclops respect thread and see this in one of Black Adam's posts.
If time permits, I'll show perhaps 3 of those relevant images here myself. Significant to note that Cyclops fought most of that battle with busted ribs, pointing out point 3 ...

It's possible for a human level opponent to outdistance and outmanuever Colossus. Dude is slow. He's ground bound and cannot fly. He also has a temper and can be goaded into rushing or following an opponent without really paying attention to his surroundings or even where he's going.
Again, see Cyclops versus the X-Men, post Dark Phoenix.

Maybe I've been sleeping, but I haven't even seen where Colossus has significant leaping ability, in contrast to a character like Hulk.

Find a way to drop him down a sewer, or use an explosive batarang to collapse the street around him to achieve the same effect, and it should take Petey a little while to get topside again.
I imagine it would be easy for Batman to break into and hotwire a nearby vehicle to crash into him, if only to prove to himself that doesn't work, as general forum rules say he should know Piotr could no-sell anyway, but there's a whole city of options Bruce can try against Colossus that he wouldn't be able to make work against the leaper and flyer or speedster version of tank Bruce is used to.

Colossus, however, unless someone can prove to me otherwise, is pure tank; you only need find something to mess with those treads ...

Pyro and Avalanche proved the combination of hot then cold is enough to break Colossus' resistance to either extreme by itself.

Note also that Batman only need to affect a relatively small area of Colossus like that to get a win NOT his whole body.
Shatter a kneecap for instance, an action perfectly within the character M.O. and limits of Batman, and Big C is down on the ground as you asked. Nice theory

But there are two major arguments against it

1 Piotr while able to to be enraged is not a DUMB brick he is intelligent enough to see a patern to batmans attacks.

2 per forum rules Piotr knows that batman is a non enhanced human. Piotr is no fool he would know that batmans best option in this fight is to keep his distance and try to trap him.

Without PIS or CIS i can see Piotr ending it quickly with thunderclaps.

godking

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Also:

I would need to see Peter thunderclapping to believe he can use such a thing in a fight. There's a strength threshhold you've got to pass before that becomes an option, after all. Not just anybody with any level of superstrength can do it, else you'd see Spider-man pulling that move all the time.

Piotr has always been Marvel's little-est "big" man.
Prove to me the thunderclap is something he's allowed to play with, please.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking of sound attacks, has anyone ever used one on Petey?
I'm recalling now that hypersonics have dropped even Juggernaut, and that Batman, surprise, surprise, happens to carry a hypersonic emitter on his person. Least every version I'VE seen of Batman does.

Somebody please respond and let me know if Colossus has any sound resistance I'm not aware of. If anything, that metal body of his should MAGNIFY the effect of audio. Colossus is at least in the 80 ton range villains/heroes from the 50 ton range up have used thunderclaps.

Collosus can easily use thunderclaps

KingD19

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

What you'll have instead is a mini version of Spider-man versus Juggernaut, with Batman taking Spider-man's role and Colossus that of Juggernaut; perhaps even with similar odds.

It is possible for a peak human to survive an errant, non-accurate blow from Colossus, even if Colossus isn't holding back. Cyclops proved that when he took a slam-punch combination from Colossus in the original Dark Phoenix aftersaga.

It's possible for a human level opponent to manipulate Colossus weight and take him off his feet. Again, proved by Cyclops when he fought not only Colossus but the rest of his teammates as well in the aforementioned skirmish. Currently you can refer to the Cyclops respect thread and see this in one of Black Adam's posts.
If time permits, I'll show perhaps 3 of those relevant images here myself. Significant to note that Cyclops fought most of that battle with busted ribs, pointing out point 3 ...

It's possible for a human level opponent to outdistance and outmanuever Colossus. Dude is slow. He's ground bound and cannot fly. He also has a temper and can be goaded into rushing or following an opponent without really paying attention to his surroundings or even where he's going.
Again, see Cyclops versus the X-Men, post Dark Phoenix.

Maybe I've been sleeping, but I haven't even seen where Colossus has significant leaping ability, in contrast to a character like Hulk.

Find a way to drop him down a sewer, or use an explosive batarang to collapse the street around him to achieve the same effect, and it should take Petey a little while to get topside again.
I imagine it would be easy for Batman to break into and hotwire a nearby vehicle to crash into him, if only to prove to himself that doesn't work, as general forum rules say he should know Piotr could no-sell anyway, but there's a whole city of options Bruce can try against Colossus that he wouldn't be able to make work against the leaper and flyer or speedster version of tank Bruce is used to.

Colossus, however, unless someone can prove to me otherwise, is pure tank; you only need find something to mess with those treads ...

Pyro and Avalanche proved the combination of hot then cold is enough to break Colossus' resistance to either extreme by itself.

Note also that Batman only need to affect a relatively small area of Colossus like that to get a win NOT his whole body.
Shatter a kneecap for instance, an action perfectly within the character M.O. and limits of Batman, and Big C is down on the ground as you asked.

The only reason Spidey walked away from that battle is because he was lucky enough to fight Cain in a construction site. In AvX versus when he fought Colossusnaut in Latveria, he would have died fighting if Daredevil hadn't called for retreat. And Colossus was holding back.

As for his speed, Colossus is incredibly quick, and often takes people off guard by how fast and agile he is. Reference his fight with Savage Hulk back when he was a teenager. He used his skills and speed and agility to counter Hulk's greater strength. He's also had other displays such as flipping onto a wall, then pushing off and curling into a cannonball, launching himself off a wall to take down a larger opponent. If anything he's faster than normal people because of his superhuman attributes.

As for his leaping ability, he's never shown it, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be able to do it. Luke Cage didn't show he could jump until maybe a year ago, when he jumped at least 10 stories straight up because someone bad mouthed his wife. Colossus is one of the physically strongest mutants on the planet, has thrown Logan into near orbit, has punched through a mountain, has held up a multiple hundreds of tons ship. Jumping should be well within his capabilities, but as he's the X-Men's tank/strong man/brick, he's mainly just shown with his strength. The earlier example of him launching clear across a room comes to mind.

As for the heat extremes, it took one of the most powerful flame based villains at the time, and 5 tankers filled with thousands of gallons of absolute zero liquid nitro to do that. Batman on average doesn't have access to that amount of heat to either extreme, and nor does he have the time to employ it.

And Colossus is capable of the thunderclap. He's done it as Juggernaut, but he's easily within the strength range(low-mid Class 100) normally to do so. If Luke Cage(Class 30-50) can thunderclap, so can Pete.

As for sonics, I don't think they've ever been used specifically on him, but in New York, Batman would be dodging cars and all manner of heavy things coming at him at terminal velocity, so it would be hard to even use.

It's admirable you're fighting for Bats, but his standard arsenal isn't enough.

Juntai

Originally posted by KingD19
Colossus has been exposed to absolute zero and was stated by Iceman to be the only one who could survive it. Hyperbole. Absolute zero can't exist in the universe, and could never be observed even if it could.

KingD19

Well he froze the door down really cold and said Colossus was the only one who could touch it.

And this is a comic universe when real world physics and logic often don't apply. So your point may not even be valid in this case.

StiltmanFTW

Absolute zero shit happens often in comics.

Juntai

Originally posted by KingD19
Well he froze the door down really cold and said Colossus was the only one who could touch it. He might have said it was absolute zero, but thats an impossibility. Natural radiation, light, and anything it touched would have lent it energy. Absolute zero is only the theoretical temp in the absence of all energy and lending.

Juntai

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Absolute zero shit happens often in comics. Yeah, guys like Captain Cold claim it sometimes too. And it's hyperbole then as well, imo.

The only time it could really be viable is if time is stopped.

StiltmanFTW

It was said that he could freeze things at below absolute zero, actually. Ridiculous as it is, impossible stuff happens all the time in comics.

KingD19

You've got guys who can make pocket dimensions on a whim and put our own in a 5x5 box, and people who can shake the multiverse to the core just by existing, but absolute zero is beyond the realm of possibility? It's comics, 90% of the stuff that happens is beyond the realm of possibility, so it's well within it in the comic verse.

Juntai

And yet, the moment it is observed or contacts energy or another surface, it is no longer absolute zero. And thus, doesn't happen.
smile

Juntai

Originally posted by KingD19
You've got guys who can make pocket dimensions on a whim and put our own in a 5x5 box, and people who can shake the multiverse to the core just by existing, but absolute zero is beyond the realm of possibility? It's comics, 90% of the stuff that happens is beyond the realm of possibility, so it's well within it in the comic verse. Making other universes and higher inter/extra-dimensional beings are well within the realm of possibility, just not likely. Absolute zero however is impossible without conditions to support it.

Colossus-Big C

Originally posted by Juntai
And yet, the moment it is observed or contacts energy or another surface, it is no longer absolute zero. And thus, doesn't happen.
smile

It was below absolute zero

-Pr-

Colossus is class 100.
He isn't slow.
He can thunderclap.
He's a thinking man's brick, always has been.

Seriously, if you want Batman to win, fine, but read up on Colossus people.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
It was below absolute zero

Not possible.

KingD19

Originally posted by -Pr-
Colossus is class 100.
He isn't slow.
He can thunderclap.
He's a thinking man's brick, always has been.

Seriously, if you want Batman to win, fine, but read up on Colossus people.

Not possible.

Have I ever told you how awesome you are? smokin'

-Pr-

Originally posted by KingD19
Have I ever told you how awesome you are? smokin'

awesome

This reminds me of the old Colossus vs Thing thread. I must have gotten a hundred posts in that thread easy.

psycho gundam

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Piotr was nearly killed by Pyro, when he was first frozen with liquid nitrogen and then blasted with intense fire. other way around

pyro can increase the temperature of his flame, and he needed to to make colossus incandescent (normal flame can't do that), and it took like 4 trucks full liquid N to douse him to the point of blistering from the rapid temperature drop

this was also a young colossus, too.

-Pr-

Before two amps, iirc.

psycho gundam

miss those days

-Pr-

You and me both. His last good arc was what, under Whedon?

DarkSaint85

Yeah, when he came back from the dead. That was it.

-Pr-

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yeah, when he came back from the dead. That was it.

Yep. Brubaker was all right, but then Omega Red happened.

Mindset

"Absolute zero is possible.

Get over it, nerds." - Pr

Spider Boy94

Without Prep, Batman lose
Colossus 8/10

basilisk

Storm also took Colossus out of a fight by making him slip over on ice, then freezing him in a block of ice before he could stand up. And that was presumably at a temp within the natural range of weather, so well above AZ. It's conceivable Bats could do something like that.

Bats should first blind Colossus with some chemical that sticks to his face and blocks his vision. Then while Colossus stumbles around try stuff like sonics and bat-acid (bat-acid is more powerful than any regular acid).

SamZED

Originally posted by KingD19
I'm calling PIS in that issue man. Classic Colossus fell from I think several miles up, made a mile wide crater and was just fine. Colossus on Breakworld fell from near orbit and was fine. Colossus has been used as a makeshift bomb before by dropping him from really high. Yet after he gets the Juggernaut power, gets a hole blasted in his chest and walks it off, and all this other stuff. A fall from 55,000 feet "injures" him? Storm kicks him and it actually affects him? The whole issue reeks of piss. Oh I agree it's PIS, I was just saying.

golem370

How does he win the last 2

bluewaterrider

If Colossus is vulnerable to electricity now, as him apparently and recently falling to one of Storm's lightning bolts suggests,
I see a 3rd rail in his future ...

KingD19

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
If Colossus is vulnerable to electricity now, as him apparently and recently falling to one of Storm's lightning bolts suggests,
I see a 3rd rail in his future ...

That's called PIS.

Because a much younger Colossus withstood a constant bolt of lightning while standing on a metal platform. The platform began to melt, and he kept going.

So being properly written, no he's not really vulnerable to lightning. Neither is he to falling from negligible heights.

-Pr-

He's taken electricity a few times, enough to be an average too.

lol, the dude survived atmospheric entry; a fall isn't hurting him.

namorsubby

Batman pounds.

SamZED

Originally posted by Juntai
Making other universes and higher inter/extra-dimensional beings are well within the realm of possibility, just not likely. Absolute zero however is impossible without conditions to support it. Sooo... Pulling a universe out if one's ass IS possible without conditions to support it? confused

psycho gundam

he might mean "probable"

Bentley

Originally posted by -Pr-
awesome

This reminds me of the old Colossus vs Thing thread. I must have gotten a hundred posts in that thread easy.

Unless all those posts were to say "Thing wins handily" then you wasted your time.

Anyways, did Colossus finally get a legitimate thunderclap feat? I wouldn't be surprised if he did -afterall, frigging Luke Cage thunderclapped-, but I recall a debate in which people defending Colossus couldn't provide proof, so I ask in case that changed.

-Pr-

Originally posted by Bentley
Unless all those posts were to say "Thing wins handily" then you wasted your time.

Anyways, did Colossus finally get a legitimate thunderclap feat? I wouldn't be surprised if he did -afterall, frigging Luke Cage thunderclapped-, but I recall a debate in which people defending Colossus couldn't provide proof, so I ask in case that changed.

Shut up.

I remember there being one back in the day, I just can't seem to recall where I saw it.

I should really start with that respect thread. sad

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by Bentley
Anyways, did Colossus finally get a legitimate thunderclap feat?

As a Juggernaut, yes.

rotiart

If black panther can armbar norrin
The bat man can turn Piotr into his own boy toy

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by -Pr-

I should really start with that respect thread. sad

If you have enough information on Colossus to start an entire respect thread, I'd like you next to answer whether you've ever seen Colossus swimming in metal form, for I've never seen him or Juggernaut doing so, instead only those two walking, or, most recently, fighting on an ocean floor (Colossusnaut versus Rulk).
Other than that, i've only seen Petey DROWNING in water when some device of Magneto's forced him to switch back suddenly to human form while heading for Magneto's island. He was saved by Wolverine giving the Schafer manuever and CPR, if memory serves
(Uncanny X-Men #150) correctly.

I've got the comicbook equivalent of the following in my head now.

John unwittingly taking the part of Batman.
Cromartie that of Colossus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n32AxWSn80U

basilisk

Batman might also use the strategy he applied against the General: first he hypnotizes Colossus into turning back into human form then he karate chops him to win handily.

As a last resort he would break out the Batkick, but he would be careful to only disable Colossus and not kill him. Batman is well aware of the potential to cause a fatality and would call on all his training and self-discipline to restrict the Batkick to a non-lethal (ie sub Spectre-ownage) level.

Batman-Prime

Originally posted by basilisk
Batman might also use the strategy he applied against the General: first he hypnotizes Colossus into turning back into human form then he karate chops him to win handily.

As a last resort he would break out the Batkick, but he would be careful to only disable Colossus and not kill him. Batman is well aware of the potential to cause a fatality and would call on all his training and self-discipline to restrict the Batkick to a non-lethal (ie sub Spectre-ownage) level.

thumb up

I also have to say I'm very disappointed by the mods here, especially that nasty old lizard, Bada... A spite threat like this open for soo long. Batman should be put against the HOTU and not against someone like Colossus... not even Colossonaut with the P5 power...

psycho gundam

batman cannot win.

stop this shit

-Pr-

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
If you have enough information on Colossus to start an entire respect thread, I'd like you next to answer whether you've ever seen Colossus swimming in metal form, for I've never seen him or Juggernaut doing so, instead only those two walking, or, most recently, fighting on an ocean floor (Colossusnaut versus Rulk).
Other than that, i've only seen Petey DROWNING in water when some device of Magneto's forced him to switch back suddenly to human form while heading for Magneto's island. He was saved by Wolverine giving the Schafer manuever and CPR, if memory serves
(Uncanny X-Men #150) correctly.

I've got the comicbook equivalent of the following in my head now.

John unwittingly taking the part of Batman.
Cromartie that of Colossus:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n32AxWSn80U

Colossus doesn't breathe in metal form, but he's usually too heavy to swim. i honestly haven't seen him swim in metal form, but in his human form it shouldn't be an issue.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
batman cannot win.

stop this shit

Patience.

StiltmanFTW

If the Thing can swim, then so can Piotr stick out tongue

namorsubby

This is spite.......piotr doesn't have the feats to match up with bruce.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by Badabing
With standard gear, Batman can slow Colossus down, AT BEST. His only options are calling in his car and plane remotely and hope they can do the job.

I disagree.

One, think it worthwhile to point out there are somethings you can do to "slow down" an opponent to such an extent that there is little real distinction between "slowed" and "stopped". Spider-man's win over Juggernaut is the classic example of this; thanks to retcon, Juggernaut was ultimately only "slowed down" by Spider-man's happenstance.
By several ... months.

I think a "slowage" of that magnitude would count for a win even by the rules of this forum.

Two, Colossus has been stopped by physical force on the level of collapsing buildings and far less throughout his comic history.
Doesn't seem plausible to me that a master strategist like Batman couldn't arrange for Colossus to be put in the path of something big enough to stop him.

Three, per forum rules Batman has general knowledge of Colossus.
Except as part of a general strategy of distraction to help some larger Plan B succeed, Bruce wouldn't be wasting time trying to fight Colossus hand-to-hand. You'd have to substitute a very un-Batman-like Bruce Wayne into the costume before THAT would happen ...

golem370

Batman only gets is standard gear which mean he can't run and hide long enough to come up with a plan he has stuck with staying in certain area of colossus that the main reason for the hand to hand combat.

bluewaterrider

1 of 9.

bluewaterrider

2 of 9.

bluewaterrider

3 of 9.

bluewaterrider

4 of 9.

-Pr-

Colossus has had at least two amps since then.

And that's Cyclops. He knows Peter's strengths and weaknesses. Batman doesn't.

bluewaterrider

5 of 9.

psycho gundam

it would take a decade for this guy to make a respect thread lol

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by -Pr-
Colossus has had at least two amps since then.

And that's Cyclops. He knows Peter's strengths and weaknesses. Batman doesn't.

What are these amps and what are they going to help him do?

The OP specified that he doesn't get the Cytorrak Ruby upgrade (no Colossusnaut).

And the point of using Cyclops was and is to illustrate my previous post's points and a few others:

1) a human level opponent can survive a punch-slam from Colossus, even if Colossus means business.

2) Colossus can be toppled by a special surprise attack and judo

3) even a man with broken ribs is swift enough to evade Colossus if he is hero-level athletic

4) Colossus has a short temper and can be persuaded to follow after opponents without giving it much thought, thinking man or no

5) Colossus is ground-bound, too heavy to swim, and can be caught in viscous liquid-type traps, as even Juggernaut before him was.

JakeTheBank

Originally posted by psycho gundam
it would take a decade for this guy to make a respect thread lol

thumb up

bluewaterrider

6 of 9.

bluewaterrider

7 of 9.

bluewaterrider

8 of 9.

bluewaterrider

9 of 9.

Might even be worth pointing out that Cyclops does NOT consider Colossus his primary threat, busted ribs or no, when fighting the X-men.

Given a choice between Colossus and Wolverine, it's Wolverine he takes down. Presented with the prospect of just clearing a dozen yards that Storm and Rogue are guarding, he thinks to himself "this LAST lap is the hardest ..."

(Presumably Colossus is still struggling to free himself at this point, else waiting for a teammate help him do so.)

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by -Pr-
Cyclops ... knows Peter's strengths and weaknesses.
Batman doesn't.

Indeed, but how hard would these be for Batman to discover?

Looks like a literal Superstrong man of steel?

Is Batman going to see that and think "I can drop this fool with one punch! He's only made of metal. My hand can take that easy ..." ?

Is he?

Or is Bruce more likely to think: "I'll need something special for this guy. Would electricity do the trick? One of my explosives? Can I blind this guy? Are his ears soundproof? If he's metal, is he affected by things that are magnetic? Whatever the case, I'd better be careful. This guy can press several tons! I've read reports of this guy trashing several installations (or whatever the world knows of Colossus). I should lead him away from innocents and stay out of his range till I can think of something effective..."

#5 by the way, would lead Bruce to some interesting conclusions, even as it did Magneto and Beast:

bluewaterrider

Being more or less solid steel, FERROUS solid steel, that is, able to be attracted by magnets, leads to a proposition I want to see disproved:

bluewaterrider

... namely that a master tactician like Bruce would be unable to lure Colossus (yes, even through gradual "direct" fighting), to an area where he can arrange for something like THIS to happen ...

-Pr-

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
What are these amps and what are they going to help him do?

The OP specified that he doesn't get the Cytorrak Ruby upgrade (no Colossusnaut).

And the point of using Cyclops was and is to illustrate my previous post's points and a few others:

1) a human level opponent can survive a punch-slam from Colossus, even if Colossus means business.

2) Colossus can be toppled by a special surprise attack and judo

3) even a man with broken ribs is swift enough to evade Colossus if he is hero-level athletic

4) Colossus has a short temper and can be persuaded to follow after opponents without giving it much thought, thinking man or no

5) Colossus is ground-bound, too heavy to swim, and can be caught in viscous liquid-type traps, as even Juggernaut before him was.

Since the scans you posted, Colossus has had both his strength and durability strongly upgraded, even outside of the cyttorak amp.

1. It broke Cyclops' ribs, and even throughout that story, Cyclops was on the run.
2. Sure, but that's not a win. Plus, he weighs more now.
3. In the Danger Room, but even without that, running away isn't a win.
4. He has nothing of the sort. They were convinced that was Dark Phoenix, arguably the most dangerous enemy they ever faced. Colossus is incredibly passive, and has to be pushed extremely far to lose his temper.
5. Again, those only slow him down; that's not a win.

Saying Bruce "will find a way" isn't a valid defence or debating tactic.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by -Pr-
Since the scans you posted, Colossus has had both his strength and durability strongly upgraded, even outside of the cyttorak amp.

Upgraded to the point that Storm's kicks can affect him.
X-Men #37, released just this month.
Are we going by what's in the comics or not?

P.R. you know as well as I do that every time Marvel claims character x is bigger and better than ever, it doesn't necessarily equate to the truth ... OR make character x more effective than before.

To give one example, World War Hulk is widely held to be superior to previous versions of Hulk. Stronger than Savage Hulk and smarter, for instance.

Going on that premise, it'd be reasonable to expect World War Hulk would handle, say, Wolverine 2005, easier than Savage Hulk of 1975 or thereabouts did, yes?

Is that the reality?

In point of fact, Savage Hulk was able to knock Wolverine out, after an unexpected pause in fighting, with a single blow.

Meanwhile, Wolverine found his claws could not cut Hulk's hide, whereas they did so quite effectively on the Wendigo, and would later do to World War Hulk himself.

Hulk's "upgrade" to World War Hulk translates into Hulk now getting cut by the claws of Wolverine, and requiring multiple hits to take Wolverine out of a fight.

Upgrades should be demonstrable, P.R.
If we're eliminating Cytorrak and Phoenix upgrades, the only true upgrades I know of, then you haven't shown any for Colossus.

And neither, from what I've seen, have the comics.

-Pr-

One abnormal showing doesn't destroy the average.

Colossus being affected by the kick at all would fall under the Spider-Man Vs Firelord category, which we have a ruling for.

Actually yes, the comics have shown at least TWO definitive upgrades to Colossus. One, when Magneto rearranged his skin, and two, when he was resurrected in Astonishing. There's also the point that Colossus was definitively stated to get more powerful as he grew in age. Honestly, any regular X-Men reader would know this as common knowledge.

You can't substitute what you think "should" be right, and have it take precedence over the comics.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by -Pr-
One abnormal showing doesn't destroy the average.

Colossus being affected by the kick at all would fall under the Spider-Man Vs Firelord category, which we have a ruling for.

Actually yes, the comics have shown at least TWO definitive upgrades to Colossus. One, when Magneto rearranged his skin, and two, when he was resurrected in Astonishing.

You can't substitute what you think "should" be right, and have it take precedence over the comics.

But isn't this what you're doing? I'm showing you something from the most recent actual COMIC that Colossus was shown in, sans being Colossusnaut or Phoenix Colossus, and YOU are the one telling me what you think "should" be right, based on Colossus's appearances in yesteryears. You're not going by what the comics themselves today are actually saying, are you?

Maybe the following might work:

Tell me what YOU think Batman would have to do in order to score a win here. You're telling me Colossus will thunderclap, though he hasn't done so to anyone's solid recollection in his entire history, to disperse Batman's gas and smoke.
You tell me that Colossus is fast even though Cyclops, pursued by pretty much the entire X-Men team of his time, was able to elude Colossus and everyone else with a set of busted ribs, which, by the way, he was only able to inflict on Cyclops because Cyclops was caught off-guard, thinking the X-Men were his friends and teammates as always, AND was pulled in by one of Storm's suction drafts. You tell me that Colossus is perfectly capable of leaping to great heights, even though I personally have never seen such a thing and even though no one on the pro-Colossus side can remember seeing that either.
Elsewhere you decry what you call "ABC" logic, "if character x can do the following, character y similar to character x can do the same" yet here are using the rationale that because other people in Colossus strength class have thunderclap and leaping feats, such should be well within Colossus reach too.
This despite such NOT being in character for Colossus (since the character has never, to most anyone's knowledge done these things), which the forum versus rules say should be a primary consideration.

You're moving the goalposts too much. I get the distinct impression that you would even argue at this point that a collapsing building (such took Colossus out on our light-gravity moon back in the original Dark Phoenix saga) would leave Petey unaffected.

Prove me wrong. Give me a reasonable comic-book based measure of force Batman needs to reproduce in your mind to score a knockout on Piotr. Make it justifiable and not arbitrary.

We'll see if we can plausibly match it given Batman's M.O., his standard gear as the OP stipulated, and the setting of New York City and go from there.

bluewaterrider

In the meanwhile, regardless of the response I get, it would probably be a good idea to establish what Batman's M.O. in battle against opposition of superior force or number actually DOES in a city. Doing so should simultaneously help establish what Batman typically carries on him as he goes from rooftop to rooftop.

Batman versus the Legion should make a good start, establishing that Batman carries around these smoke bombs we've all been talking about. Waid's Brave and the Bold #5 if memory serves ...

StiltmanFTW

Wolverine did cut the Hulk in their first fight. He was just healing so fast it went unnoticed. The blood drawn in that fight was used to make the Gamma Corps.

WWH's hide was, as noted on panel, harder to cut.

bluewaterrider

Legion versus Batman. Confirmation, pellets were smoke bombs.

-Pr-

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
But isn't this what you're doing? I'm showing you something from the most recent actual COMIC that Colossus was shown in, sans being Colossusnaut or Phoenix Colossus, and YOU are the one telling me what you think "should" be right, based on Colossus's appearances in yesteryears. You're not going by what the comics themselves today are actually saying, are you?

Maybe the following might work:

Tell me what YOU think Batman would have to do in order to score a win here. You're telling me Colossus will thunderclap, though he hasn't done so to anyone's solid recollection in his entire history, to disperse Batman's gas and smoke.
You tell me that Colossus is fast even though Cyclops, pursued by pretty much the entire X-Men team of his time, was able to elude Colossus and everyone else with a set of busted ribs, which, by the way, he was only able to inflict on Cyclops because Cyclops was caught off-guard, thinking the X-Men were his friends and teammates as always, AND was pulled in by one of Storm's suction drafts. You tell me that Colossus is perfectly capable of leaping to great heights, even though I personally have never seen such a thing and even though no one on the pro-Colossus side can remember seeing that either.
Elsewhere you decry what you call "ABC" logic, "if character x can do the following, character y similar to character x can do the same" yet here are using the rationale that because other people in Colossus strength class have thunderclap and leaping feats, such should be well within Colossus reach too.
This despite such NOT being in character for Colossus (since the character has never, to most anyone's knowledge done these things), which the forum versus rules say should be a primary consideration.

You're moving the goalposts too much. I get the distinct impression that you would even argue at this point that a collapsing building (such took Colossus out on our light-gravity moon back in the original Dark Phoenix saga) would leave Petey unaffected.

Prove me wrong. Give me a reasonable comic-book based measure of force Batman needs to reproduce in your mind to score a knockout on Piotr. Make it justifiable and not arbitrary.

We'll see if we can plausibly match it given Batman's M.O., his standard gear as the OP stipulated, and the setting of New York City and go from there.

No, I'm telling you what the AVERAGE is, in accordance with the rules of the forum. You don't get to pick one comic that suits your position; you go by averages. That's the rules of the forum and that's how we do things, and have done for a while now.

-I honestly don't think Batman can win without some sort of outside assistance.
-Nobody said Colossus was faster than Cyclops; just that Colossus is fast; as he has enhanced reflexes that allow him to move in his metal body as quickly as he could in his normal body without any sort of hindrance.
-When did I say Colossus could jump really high? Please point me to that post.
-That isn't what I'm doing at all. That's your assumption. I genuinely remember seeing him thunderclap a ways back, and I've been looking for the scan for a bit now. So no, not ABC logic.

I'm not moving any goalposts. At all.

A collapsing building really shouldn't affect Colossus in his current state, no. Not after two solid upgrades.

I don't think Batman can do it without higher yield explosives or some sort of means by which he can change Colossus back to normal.

In general, I don't think Batman CAN win, given the stipulations.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wolverine did cut the Hulk in their first fight. He was just healing so fast it went unnoticed. The blood drawn in that fight was used to make the Gamma Corps.

WWH's hide was, as noted on panel, harder to cut.

Stiltman, no offense, but, did you actually READ the first fight these 2 had together?

What you're talking about is actually a retcon and supports the point I'M making, i.e. that sometimes characters with previously high levels of invulnerability and strength actually get DOWNGRADED, to judge by how they perform against their peers.

Here, take a look at some panels from the actual Hulk #181 comic the first fight against Wolverine took place in, and perhaps you'll understand:

Bentley

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
As a Juggernaut, yes.

Ok, that narrows it down enough for me to find it, thanks!

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Stiltman, no offense, but, did you actually READ the first fight these 2 had together?

What you're talking about is actually a retcon and supports the point I'M making, i.e. that sometimes characters with previously high levels of invulnerability and strength actually get DOWNGRADED, to judge by how they perform against their peers.

Here, take a look at some panels from the actual Hulk #181 comic the first fight against Wolverine took place in, and perhaps you'll understand:

Yes, I did.

It is a retcon, yeah. And Logan's claws that were only diamond-hard then are indestructible now.

Now no offense to you, but many members, including me, don't appreciate your multi-post attachments.

Originally posted by Bentley
Ok, that narrows it down enough for me to find it, thanks!

AvX: Versus mini, Piotr vs. Spider-Man.

bluewaterrider

Batman utilizes whatever resources are available in seriously overmatched situations. He demonstrates foresight even when he's facing short time deadlines; i.e. having had virtually no prep.
He demonstrates a great deal of skill at operating unfamiliar technology, too ...

(Note that he steals Braniac's flight ring before fleeing the Legion, does not try to escape them without giving himself the best chance to actually succeed with whatever action he's decided on)

Mshinu

Petey catches Batty Boy by the cape and sits on him until he cries "uncle"

pym-ftw

How is this still open, Batman has no chance at all

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by pym-ftw
How is this still open, Batman has no chance at all

If Batman fights like an idiot, I agree, and agree absolutely.

If Batman fights as he does against Superman or the Legion or the White Martians, however, i.e. respecting the power of his opponent or opponents, utilizing the resources at his disposal, and actually using his environment (in this case New York City) to exploit any known or good theoretical weaknesses of his opponent, then, no,
I disagree, he has a chance of at worst stalemating and at best actually disabling or knocking Piotr out.

pym-ftw

How?

Piotr is nearly as skilled, nearly as fast, equally as experienced, and his capable of disabling Bruce with even just a glancing blow.

Piotr is also immune to nearly all of Bruce's attacks, but none are really more than a stalling tactic

bluewaterrider

other way around

pyro can increase the temperature of his flame, and he needed to to make colossus incandescent (normal flame can't do that), and it took like 4 trucks full liquid N to douse him to the point of blistering from the rapid temperature drop

this was also a young colossus, too.

Well, fortunately, and presumably AFTER his 2 amps (assuming both are pre-2010, or at least pre-2011), it doesn't seem to take such extreme amounts of hot and cold material to do that to Piotr.

Witness the amount used by Karima in X-Men Legacy #243 to make him gasp out in pain and nearly end his career anew before being saved by Hope Summers. Karima was about to literally break Pete after the stress of this technique weakened his armor.

pym-ftw

Piotr could have dropped her in the third panel if she didn't have superhuman stats

Batman does not have that level of durability
confused

pym-ftw

^no juggernaut amp should have a HF

But this is pre J-amp

Mshinu

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
I'm not suggesting that Pete will be exposed to enough heat to melt.

It's not either heat OR cold by itself that has caused armor weakening with Colossus, it's the COMBINATION of hot then cold that has done it. Cold following the heating of his armor in the case of both Pyro and Karima here.

Also, this fight is, again, taking place in New York City.
And Batman carries explosives on him, if Superman/Batman #11
(or whatever issue has him fighting those Doomsday clones)
is any indication. Blow up a car or vehicle. The explosion has a good chance of knocking Petey out. The blaze that will result is quite close to that melting point Karima suggests, too.

Here, check out the flame temperature of some of gasoline's components. You might be surprised at how hot they get:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiabatic_flame_temperature

Those are theoretical values. The heat you get from an actual flame of say, propane, is much lower. A burner with a proper mix of oxygene fed directly into the flame would maybe reach 1/3 of those values. I happen to have done acutual measurements on this as part of my work is running a fire lab. The heat also drops VERY rapidly with distance from the ignition point.

Again, how will bats do it?

pym-ftw

Gasoline fire burns around 1k F
Diesel burns at about 300F

2500c is around 4500F

Your argument is invalid

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Gasoline fire burns around 1k F
Diesel burns at about 300F

2500c is around 4500F

Your argument is invalid

If Marvel comic writers thought the flame from gasoline tanks and vehicle explosions and the like made for low temperature fires you'd still have the concussive force of those things to deal with, and Petey's been knocked out by things as low level as Sebastian Shaw slamming him into the wooden walls of the Hellfire Club.

Moreover, such is hardly the only method Batman has for producing heat. More than that, there's no reason the process has to be hot then cold. The reverse should work just as well and Batman actually seems to carry a pen laser around with him as fairly standard equipment as well. You can see it at work in the aforementioned Hush skirmish, and you can also see it in Supergirl #5.

As it is Marvel comic writers treat gasoline fire as a very hot fire indeed. In Marvel Team Up #150, for instance, it is actually hot enough for the half-powered Juggernaut to feel, even as the flame from another gasoline explosion, a tanker truck, was enough for Cain to feel, though just barely, at FULL power, when taking on Spider-man the first time around. Even a million volts of electricity didn't seem enough for the author to say Juggernaut was registering before that point.

Again, though, it's the combination of hot and cold that must be stressed. Neither alone is expected to do the job -- and neither needs to.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by Mshinu
Those are theoretical values. The heat you get from an actual flame of say, propane, is much lower. A burner with a proper mix of oxygene fed directly into the flame would maybe reach 1/3 of those values. I happen to have done acutual measurements on this as part of my work is running a fire lab. The heat also drops VERY rapidly with distance from the ignition point.

Again, how will bats do it?

Your work in the lab has little bearing on what a Marvel Comics writer thinks. Having said even that much, though, is giving a lot of credence to the idea that a controlled fire in a lab matches what you'd get if a car exploded from a bomb and you were near THAT kind of flame. Even that ignores, again, that it is not heat alone I've been suggesting. If you're wondering how Batman introduces cold, though, that's easy. He actually carries around freeze pellets with him. Actually, if my understanding is correct, he and the Bat-family even carry around so-called "freeze-a-rangs".

bluewaterrider

Freezing pellets again ...

Silent Master

Batman has zero chance of winning this fight.

bluewaterrider

I'm recalling now a scene where Batman is fighting in the Contagion storyline. Some guy dies due to a timer and bomb implanted in him.
A white phophorus grenade is used to burn the body and the deadly plague it's carrying. I can't swear its Batman's bomb, though, for I distinctly remember Hitman being in that story and he wanted that guy dead. It's been too many years since I've seen that story to remember the issue number or even the exact title. If white phosphorus is something Batman carries though, the problem of taking Peter down, even WITHOUT liquid nitrogen pellets, might be pretty simple -- THAT stuff has a 2,800 degree celsius flame it produces, and, from my understanding, tends to stick to whatever it hits and continue burning even without the presence of oxygen.

Not something to fool around with.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m15.htm

(See "white phosphorus" for Wikipedia entry)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade

Silent Master

Why would Colossus have a problem with White phosphorus?

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by Silent Master
Why would Colossus have a problem with White phosphorus?

Because it's a substance that

1) adheres to what it strikes,
2) creates temperatures higher than the 2500 degrees Celsius that Karima stated for Colossus's melting point in X-Men Legacy #243,
3) continues burning even without the presence of oxygen,
and
4) can be thrown as a grenade by an assailant from a safe distance.

Throw any significant bat-coolant on Petey after he's doused with that stuff and down Colossus goes.

pym-ftw

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
If Marvel comic writers thought the flame from gasoline tanks and vehicle explosions and the like made for low temperature fires you'd still have the concussive force of those things to deal with, and Petey's been knocked out by things as low level as Sebastian Shaw slamming him into the wooden walls of the Hellfire Club.

Moreover, such is hardly the only method Batman has for producing heat. More than that, there's no reason the process has to be hot then cold. The reverse should work just as well and Batman actually seems to carry a pen laser around with him as fairly standard equipment as well. You can see it at work in the aforementioned Hush skirmish, and you can also see it in Supergirl #5.

As it is Marvel comic writers treat gasoline fire as a very hot fire indeed. In Marvel Team Up #150, for instance, it is actually hot enough for the half-powered Juggernaut to feel, even as the flame from another gasoline explosion, a tanker truck, was enough for Cain to feel, though just barely, at FULL power, when taking on Spider-man the first time around. Even a million volts of electricity didn't seem enough for the author to say Juggernaut was registering before that point.

Again, though, it's the combination of hot and cold that must be stressed. Neither alone is expected to do the job -- and neither needs to.
Even lowballing Piotr, Shaw is well above car explosions

The Laser cutter + Freeze pellets still relies on Colossus just standing there and not fighting back

Silent Master

The only heat I recall actually damaging Colossus was Pete Wisdom's "hot knives" and IIRC those were said to be hotter than the sun.

I'd need to see feats of WP level heat damaging Colossus.

pym-ftw

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Because it's a substance that

1) adheres to what it strikes,
2) creates temperatures higher than the 2500 degrees Celsius that Karima stated for Colossus's melting point in X-Men Legacy #243,
3) continues burning even without the presence of oxygen,
and
4) can be thrown as a grenade by an assailant from a safe distance.

Throw any significant bat-coolant on Petey after he's doused with that stuff and down Colossus goes.

No it does not, and to say Batman would use WP in New York city is foolish

It can also burn through any Batsuit, also if Bruce breathes it in he will die

smokin'

Silent Master

And what will Batman do when Pete punches him while covered in WP?

Or, Batman throws the grenade and Colossus uses a thunderclap which sends it back towards Batman.

Mshinu

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Your work in the lab has little bearing on what a Marvel Comics writer thinks. Having said even that much, though, is giving a lot of credence to the idea that a controlled fire in a lab matches what you'd get if a car exploded from a bomb and you were near THAT kind of flame.

You brought up temperatures listed at wikipedia, I merely pointed out that a real flame does not nearly burn at those theoretical values. A burning car does not burn that hot either.

As for grenades.. you would need more energy to heat petey up. A matchstick might burn at 800 celsius but I would not heat the russan up noticeably if I stuck it at his skin.

golem370

Just to put this out there this is not Classic Colossus this is Colossus before he became Juggernaut I didn't say Classic Colossus.

bluewaterrider

Originally posted by Mshinu
You brought up temperatures listed at wikipedia, I merely pointed out that a real flame does not nearly burn at those theoretical values. A burning car does not burn that hot either.

As for grenades ... you would need more energy to heat petey up. A matchstick might burn at 800 celsius but I would not heat the russan up noticeably if I stuck it at his skin.

In the comics you don't need more energy than a grenade provides which is world's more than the matchstick and quite sufficient to the task.
Especially if, keeping Batman in character, we're going for Batman taking out Colossus's knee or something of the like to put him down without killing him.

As for the freeze-a-rangs I mentioned:

bluewaterrider

The Freeze-a-rang episode takes place in Batgirl Volume 3 if memory serves correctly. The villain's name is Diesel.

They actually have a Stephanie Brown "wikia" that describes what you see here:

Damian's distaste for Stephanie was only intensified on their first official meeting. Batman and Robin burst in while Stephanie was fighting the villain Diesel. They charged into the fray before Stephanie could explain that the bad guy bled gasoline, and Damian ended up on a puddle of petrol with the fiery villain. Ignoring Oracle and Batman's warning, Stephanie flung some ice disks at the pair. Unfortunately, she ended up freezing Damian along with the villain.

Damian did not take this well, later telling Stephanie that he hated her and wanted to stab her, which freaked her out and made her angry. He also mentioned that he would much rather have met Cassandra, because she sounded wonderful.

http://stephaniebrown.wikia.com/wiki/Damian_Wayne