The Most Powerful order of Light Side Force Sensitives.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
But, that's just one power.

Lesse, how to put this... they're specialists. They're better at telekinesis, but in turn, they're not as good at other areas because they're focusing on said telekinesis.

The Jedi, as a whole at least, are generalists. Some are good at some force powers, some others, so they have access to a range of powers the Zeison Sha don't.

You've never see a group of Zeison Sha scorch a world, like the Jedi did Yavin 4. NO you didnt read the previous message. The Zeison Sha are Stronger Physically and more Resilient then most Sentients which is the one of the reasons why the Jedi tried to convert their Children into the Order. another Reason is because of their Overwelming Telekinetic Strength, The Zeison Sha's initiates were already Considered Overwelming in the Use Of Telekinetic powers. The Zeison Sha Warriors were Gifted Extraordinary Indivisuals in the use of Physical Combat and in the use of Telekinetics, so much that a Zeison Sha Warrior can make a Physical Shield made completely of Telekinetic energy surrounding their bodys, meaning no Physical attack, or Force power can affect them Such as Force Storm Force Choke Force Push Force Pull or even attempting to drain their life Force Drain. Also the Zeison Sha Warriors were capable of Crushing their enemys body with sheer use Of their Telekinetic powers. The Zeison Sha were Balanced in Both Physical and Telekinetic as well as using Force Powers. Same cant be Said about the Jedi order, since the Jedi order focus Primarily on the Spiritual Capabilities&Connection with the Force. The Jedi Order relyed on the Force to Save their lives when fighting against other Force Sensitives (Such as the Sith) Strip a Jedi of the Force and all that is left Standing is a Man with a Lightsaber. there was a old saying that is TRUE and a FACT. A FALSE BALANCE IS A ABOMINATION. im reffering to the Jedi not being Balanced with their Physical Bodys as well as their Telekinetic Capabilities. The Jedi order only excel more then most other Force Sensitive Organizations (NOT INCLUDING THE ZEISON SHA OR THE MATUKAI) when it comes to using their Spiritual energy. The Jedi order have a False Balance Physically and Mentally which is a Abomination.

Q99

You keep on leaping to anyone not agreeing to you whenever they don't just agree what you said.

Being good at just TK or TK and physical doesn't make them better overall, it just means they're specialized.

Also, Jedi used physical powers all the time, a lot of Jedi were really good physically, which apparently you don't know. That isn't just a Zeison Sha thing.

Speed, agility, strength, all areas where Jedi have been shown to train to be quite superhuman in in some cases.

I think you're just going out in your own little world here. The Jedi aren't by any means in a 'false balance,' and the Zeison Sha aren't more balanced than them.

You like them, that doesn't automatically make 'em better.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
You keep on leaping to anyone not agreeing to you whenever they don't just agree what you said.

Being good at just TK or TK and physical doesn't make them better overall, it just means they're specialized.

Also, Jedi used physical powers all the time, a lot of Jedi were really good physically, which apparently you don't know. That isn't just a Zeison Sha thing.

Speed, agility, strength, all areas where Jedi have been shown to train to be quite superhuman in in some cases.

I think you're just going out in your own little world here. The Jedi aren't by any means in a 'false balance,' and the Zeison Sha aren't more balanced than them.

You like them, that doesn't automatically make 'em better. No Being Balanced Physically and Telekineticly and as Force Powers does make them better overall. If you were to strip a Zeison Sha of the Force that wouldnt make much of a difference Since they didnt rely on it to Save their Lives. Maybe You are The One in your Own Little World. because if you didnt already Notice, The J.E.D.I's physical abilities are supported by the F.O.R.C.E For Example. When a Jedi Jump onto a Building more then 3 Stories high, They are using the Force guide their bodys lifting their weight off of the Planetary Gravity and onto their Destination, In Short They have no Extraordinary "Natural" Stamina. and as for Agility ill use Qui Gon Jinn as a Example in that Factor. On Star Wars Episode I The Phantom Menace, When Padawan Kenobi and Master Jinn were attempting to break through a Blast door where the 2 Separatists Diplomats were. 2 Droidekas Interrupted Kenobi and Jinn, Proceeding to Fire, the 2 Jedi knew that The Droidekas Shields were Immune To Lightsabers so thus Qui Gon Grabbed Himself and Obi Wan with the F.O.R.C.E and lifted then Pushed themselfs at such a High Speed they evaded the Incoming Blaster Bolts and Lost the Droidekas and got to a safe Location. as for "NATURAL" Agility that is a feat the Jedi do NOT possess, The J.E.D.I's Agility is ONCE AGAIN Supported by the Force. and as for Physical Strength, A Lightsaber is not the Best example for Physical Strength Since its a Melee Weapon that Cuts through Most Known Alloys Armors and Surfaces without Trouble, also not requiring Brute Strength to Cut a Person in half or in pieces. The J.E.D.I use the Force as a Blade Most cases With their Lightsaber, which is why Obi Wan Kenobi told Anakin Skywalker, This Lightsaber is your life dont lose it. The J.E.D.I imbued their Lightsabers with the Force, using the Force as an ally and a blade in the most Crucial of battles and in Galactic events. Even the Jedi order themselfs teach And encourage the Padawans and Knights of the Order to Unlock as many unique Spiritual Force Capabilities possible in order to Futher one's Strength Physically and in the Understanding of the Force. the Jedi AGAIN do not Possess "NATURAL" extraordinary Strength Speed and Agility physically, The Understand and use the Force to Support them in many battles, which is why they had a old saying among the J.E.D.I order. Trust In the F.O.R.C.E it will guide you and lead to many Great Things. it will not Mislead you. The Jedi do not have Any "NATURAL" Extraordinary Physical Feats. The Matukai are the Near Physical Perfections and best order for Drawing out Force Sensitivity in Someone who isnt even Force Sensitive. and the Zeison Sha are the Telekinetic Unstoppables as well as Gifed Extraordinary Indivisuals in the Use of Physical prowess. as well as having a Strong Connection to the F.O.R.C.E and as for the J.E.DI. and S.I.T.H. they have Been Known to be the Been the Best Force users in Histroy Since they have Been Involved in Intergalactic Events that changed the Fate of Galaxys, which gained them Fame and Considerable Prowess. i dont Favor or Dislike any of the Force Organizations, they all are great but the Zeison Sha are better compared to the J.E.D.I Physically Telekineticly and in Philosophy. And Y.O.U. saying i L.E.A.P to anyone that dosent agree with me? if you are going to Disagree with Someone For your Own Preferential Reasons then of Course Someone will Naturally Reply Back to that Opinion Contradicting it. this time R.E.A.D the whole Factual Statement instead of Ignoring&Backspacing Most of it.

Q99

Except the Jedi are better balanced- they focus on just TK and physical, the Jedi do TK, Physical, Foresight, and so on.

The Zeison Sha havenarrow, focused specialities, while the Jedi have a wider, more balanced approach.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Except the Jedi are better balanced- they focus on just TK and physical, the Jedi do TK, Physical, Foresight, and so on.

The Zeison Sha havenarrow, focused specialities, while the Jedi have a wider, more balanced approach. Is that really all you can say? The Jedi being more balanced then the Zeison Sha? Even though The J.E.D.I CANT make Physical Sheilds made of the F.O.R.C.E or T.E.L.E.K.I.N.E.T.I.C Energy to defend thus make themselfs Immune From All known Force attacks&Physical attacks? dont make me laugh, everything you are saying Now is based on your Opinion theorys and Reluctance to Understand that this is a Fight you cant Win, With Words Facts Perception/Intelligence nor Explainary Evidence. Just Stop. But i will give you this Fact. The J.e.d.i Cannot Survive a atmosphere with a Temperature of 426 C Which is in other words the "Mercury" of Star Wars Yannibar The Zeison Sha's Homeworld, a place where they Survived Without the F.O.R.C.E for More then 5 Years. And you are already aware of the Zeison Sha's Common&Rare Abilitys Compared against the J.E.D.I's 1 Jedi Master Bodo Baas Stated The Zeison Sha's Initiates Telekinetic Abilitys Surpass Most Of the Jedi Order's Force Capabilities, and a Zeison Sha Initiate is Equivalent to the Rank of a Jedi Padawan, which Means The Zeison Sha's "Padawans" Surpass Most Jedi Knights&Jedi Masters in the Order in Telekinetic Energy&Force Capabilities. and as For the Zeison Sha Warriors, They are Extraordinary Indivisuals in Feats of Physical Prowess, Unstoppable in Utilizing Their Telekinetic Energy Both Offensive and Defensive. as well as having a S.T.R.O.N.G Connection to the F.O.R.C.E as a means of Surviving their Planet Yannibar (Mercury) The Zeison Sha Warriors are So Strong in Both Departments that they Can make 2 Physical Sheilds Made Of Both Telekinetic Energy and The F.O.R.C.E Surrounding the Outer Lairers of The Bodys. which is in other Words the Ultimate Defense. And Because of the Zeison Sha Warriors, many attempts to Rise to Power In the Galaxy by Many Other threats Other then the S.I.T.H have Been halted Thus Gaining the Zeison Sha Considerable Prowess. Nothing More Needs to Be Explained The Zeison Sha Are the Most Powerful Order Of Light Side Force Sensitives. The Matukai are the Second Most Powerful Order Of Light Side Force Sensitives (And if you disagree please feel free to Do So, So i Can have More Fun Destorying your Mindset Twords the J.e.d.i With F.A.C.T.S) and the J.e.d.i Are the Third Most powerful Order Of Light Side Force Sensitives. Happy Dance

GenomeFrozener

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Even though The J.E.D.I CANT make Physical Sheilds made of the F.O.R.C.E or T.E.L.E.K.I.N.E.T.I.C Energy to defend thus make themselfs Immune From All known Force attacks&Physical attacks?
Could you please supply us with evidence of this feat?

The same can be said with you and your habit of saying messages with akward periods inbetween the letters.

And who gives a phawk about that?

"I had heard that Zeison Sha are masters of the telekinetic powers, but I was astonished to see that their abilities in this area far surpass those of many Jedi."

Many doesn't most.

For a group with so many feats, they sure do have A LOT of notable indivduals. Oh wait.

You're not posting facts, you're posting your opinions. You've yet to post ANYTHING to back up your claims about this no body group.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Could you please supply us with evidence of this feat?

The same can be said with you and your habit of saying messages with akward periods inbetween the letters.

And who gives a phawk about that?

"I had heard that Zeison Sha are masters of the telekinetic powers, but I was astonished to see that their abilities in this area far surpass those of many Jedi."

Many doesn't most.

For a group with so many feats, they sure do have A LOT of notable indivduals. Oh wait.

You're not posting facts, you're posting your opinions. You've yet to post ANYTHING to back up your claims about this no body group. O.H really? the evedince you want is refferences to the Zeison Sha Capabilities in the Books? that will take to long to find/Quote, Read their Biography thats Evedince Enough. Stating what The Zeison Sha Initiates and the Zeison Sha Warriors were Capable of With The Force&Telekinesis with all the Accumulated "Evedince" that were Researched and Proved. you might find the evedince Y.O.U are looking for in the Upcoming Star Wars Movies.

GenomeFrozener

I'm sure no one will waste their time to look up some material on some small group. Besides, I shouldn't be looking for the evidence, you should. If you want to prove a point, at least have the evidence to back it up, telling people to go find it is just moronic.

In layman's terms, you're too lazy to find the "evidence". That or it doesn't exist.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
I'm sure no one will waste their time to look up some material on some small group. Besides, I shouldn't be looking for the evidence, you should. If you want to prove a point, at least have the evidence to back it up, telling people to go find it is just moronic.

In layman's terms, you're too lazy to find the "evidence". That or it doesn't exist. Buddy there is no reason for me to try to P.R.O.V.E anything to you since you arent someone important enough to P.R.O.V.E. something to. Since you did or didnt read the Zeison Sha's Biography whatever you say in the Future is Opinionated. im not lazy its just finding 1 book among many of the Other Books and Mangas i have Stored is a hard Task, Suffice it to say Trying to Find that 1 Book is like going through a Library of Unlabeled Books, a waste of time. if you want to know where the Zeison Sha were first Refferenced and Became Cannon. That would be the Star Wars Role Playing Game Hero's Guide

Q99

What? Cade Skywalker does both these things. Nomi Sunrider does too, I think... heck, in the Sith, Darth Azard uses them (to elaborate, Darth Azard is one of the One Sith's Generals, but he is not even in Krayt's inner circle, rating below the likes of Talon, Nihl, and Maladi).

Telekinetic shields are a fairly common thing among strong force users.

I think you're just unfamiliar with the Jedi's full capabilities. I don't think there's a single ability the Zeison Sha have and the Jedi don't. The Zeison Sha may focus on it and have it more commonly, but the Jedi definitely have it too, plenty of strong force users can do that sort of thing.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
What? Cade Skywalker does both these things. Nomi Sunrider does too, I think... heck, in the Sith, Darth Azard uses them (to elaborate, Darth Azard is one of the One Sith's Generals, but he is not even in Krayt's inner circle, rating below the likes of Talon, Nihl, and Maladi).

Telekinetic shields are a fairly common thing among strong force users.

I think you're just unfamiliar with the Jedi's full capabilities. I don't think there's a single ability the Zeison Sha have and the Jedi don't. The Zeison Sha may focus on it and have it more commonly, but the Jedi definitely have it too, plenty of strong force users can do that sort of thing. No you confuse The Zeison Sha's Telekinetic and Force Shields, with the Jedi's And Sith's Capabilities to Re-direct Spiritual/Physical Attacks with the Force, Such as Intercepting a force Puch with one of their own, Like on Star Wars Episode III Revenge Of The Sith at the Near End When Anakin Skywalker was Fighting Obi Wan Kenobi. or using the Force to Deflect/Re-direct a Blaster bolt with their hand. Or when a Jedi inbued their Bodys with the Force to Save their lives in a near Death Situation, For Example When a Sith Lord is Using Force Lightning in attempt Kill a enemy Jedi, the Jedi would use the Force to Hold the incoming Lightning back and slowly Continue to Re-direct the attack untill it No Longer threatens his life. (Similar to a Force Shield not NOT exactly) The Zeison Sha can Surround the outer lairers of their body with Telekinetic Energy. Suffice it to say if a Zeison Sha Warrior were to Face a Dark Lord Of the Sith In Combat both Physically and In the Force.The Zeison Sha Warrior would Surround the outer lairer of their Body Either using the F.O.R.C.E or T.E.L.E.K.I.N.E.T.I.C energy to Create a Physical Shield that makes the Warrior Immune to all Incoming Force attacks without Attempt, Such as Force Crush Force Choke Force Lightning Force Drain or Force Horror. Basicly you cant defeat a Zeison Sha Warrior Using the Force. Nor Can you Defeat a Zeison Sha Warrior using any Physical means, in the process you'd be wasting your Spiritual/Physical energy trying to Break through a Indestructible Telekinetic Sheild or a Indestructible Force Sheild, and in the outcome of the Later battle the Zeison Sha Warrior Would have Crushed the Confused Sith Lord Opponent's Body with Telekinetic Energy. This is the Reason why the Zeison Sha havent Expanded past Yannibar or the Sha Kalan, Because if Any D.A.R.K Zeison Sha escaped Yannibar and spread their influence to other Indivisual Sentients then they would be a far Larger problem then the Sith Ever were.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
I'm sure no one will waste their time to look up some material on some small group. Then Why are you even arguing? you just C.O.N.T.R.A.D.I.C.T.E.D Yourself. You said that i dont have any "Evidence" Supporting the Zeison Sha's P.H.Y.S.I.C.A.L T.E.L.E.K.I.N.E.T.I.C and F.O.R.C.E Feats and Capabilities? Even though The Zeison Sha's History, Bodo Baas, and The Star Wars Role Playing Game GuideBook Hero's Guide says Otherwise? You DONT have any reason to besides "your" Opinion to disagree or Argue with me, if you arent going to Search and Read the "Evidence" that you so eagerly await. you are arguing over spilled Milk and going with the Popular Choice and Majority Vote thats highly opinionated by Other Indivisual's Observations and Confirmations from the Star Wars Movies/Books and Video Games. You arent even trying to See the "evidence" for yourself taking a Independant Investigational Path, but Rather a Choice to wait for it to be Revealed by Star Wars Creators in the Form of Literature or Movies, and anything said otherwise before that Revelation is Considered Fan Fiction or a Opinion in your Eyes Since thats "Your" Way of Thinking, and the Path of a Indivisual with Bad Perception Conserning Undisclosed Events. Dont Waste anymore of my time with your Rubbish.

Oops I made a Mistake i accidently Mixed what i Wanted to Say in your Qoute trying to Backspace most of The Unimportant Sentence, and make my Qoute Below your Sentence of Note, like everyone else was with me, i guess i still have to get used to this Site. Next ill just keep typing what i want in the /B QOUTE area to avoid a future Mix up. oh well you still get the Picture. you didnt Originally Say that.

Pwned

Wait, what?

This is one of the biggest bits of favoritism I have EVER seen.

Anyways, no. The Jedi more than likely have any ability you can name.

As said earlier, many=/=most.

Vodo Siosk Baas lived a LONG time before the more powerful of the Force Users. That era was the era of lightsaber gods while the PT/OT era was force gods. Most notably, the most powerful force sensitives to ever live.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Pwned
Wait, what?

This is one of the biggest bits of favoritism I have EVER seen.

Anyways, no. The Jedi more than likely have any ability you can name.

As said earlier, many=/=most.

Vodo Siosk Baas lived a LONG time before the more powerful of the Force Users. That era was the era of lightsaber gods while the PT/OT era was force gods. Most notably, the most powerful force sensitives to ever live. And this is the BIGGEST opinionated Statement i Have ever Witnessed. Dont you Dare attempt to Argue The Zeison Sha's Capabilities Comparison to the J.E.D.I's. its Not Favoritism. Unless you Know more About Other Force Organizations Other then The J.E.D.I and S.I.T.H DONT ATTEMPT to Contradict this thread, M.O.V.E A.L.O.N.G And Many= Half, The Zeison Sha's Initiates were Telekineticly Stronger then more then Half of the Jedi Order. Many Jedi Which = Most Jedi Since its Above 50%. Which includes Jedi Masters Jedi Knights and Jedi and Padawans

GenomeFrozener

You shouldn't be on these forums if you're too lazy to back up your claims to anyone here.

They have a article on wookiepedia, I read it. But nothing really back up your claims that they were "TEH BESTZ!111!"

Yet you use that time to post here, nice time management skills yo.

Again, what proves this? There's nothing to prove this. It's even worse when there's no individual to show what the group is truly capable of feat wise, and not the typical "XX GROUP IS THIS AND DOES THAT" comment.

"The Zeison Sha were first created in the Star Wars Roleplaying Game guidebook Hero's Guide, written by Rodney Thompson and J.D. Wiker in 2003. As of yet, no source has described an individual member of the Zeison Sha. "

Sounds like a band of nobodies to me.

Q99

I do not. Cade and Nomi and Azard made visible telekinetic force spheres. They did not simply cancel out opposing abilities with some of their own in the instances I'm talking about.

Because... they're specialists in telekinesis! They spend more time on it!

Conversely, they're worse than most Jedi in non-telekinetic areas because they spend less time on that.

Give up on other areas to focus on one.

Nothing says overall higher, just more TK focused. And even the technique you say makes them so great, the telekinetic shields, are ones that multiple other strong Jedi and Sith possess.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
I do not. Cade and Nomi and Azard made visible telekinetic force spheres. They did not simply cancel out opposing abilities with some of their own in the instances I'm talking about.

Because... they're specialists in telekinesis! They spend more time on it!

Conversely, they're worse than most Jedi in non-telekinetic areas because they spend less time on that.

Give up on other areas to focus on one.

Nothing says overall higher, just more TK focused. And even the technique you say makes them so great, the telekinetic shields, are ones that multiple other strong Jedi and Sith possess. Since the J.E.D.I and S.I.T.H can make Telekinetic/Force Sheilds. How come During the Great Jedi Purge Ordered by Darth Sidious. the Jedi Masters and Knights were put into near Extinction by Regular Clone Troopers? and Yet When Darth Vader Ordered a Fleet of Imperial Soldiers, Elite Imperial Commandos and Jedi Hunters to Go to Yannibar to Persecute The Zeison Sha, The Zeison Sha Suffered NO Casualties Both Zeison Sha Warriors and Zeison Sha Initates and Ultimately Pushed Back the Imperial Invaders. Thats a Testament of their SURVIVAL SKILLS which the Z.E.I.S.O.N S.H.A were Known For along with their Overwelming Telekinetic Strength and Extraordinary Physical Prowess. The J.E.D.I cant make Physical Sheilds made of the F.O.R.C.E or T.E.L.E.K.I.N.E.T.I.C to Defend themselfs from Force Offensive Attacks without attempt, because if they could they wouldnt have been Stamped out During the Great Jedi Purge by Clone Troopers Ordered By Darth Sidious, (Oh and not to Forget 1 d.a.r.k Jedi Knight that Wasnt at Full Potential Anakin Skywalker) in that time Which Supposedly was the Time of Many F.O.R.C.E using G.O.D.S and Those Jedi made Spheres to Block Incoming Attacks. Not T.E.L.E.K.I.N.E.T.I.C Sheilds that Surround the Outer lairer of Your Body, (For Example Halo Type Shields) (NOT Sheilds you put in front of Yourself or Guide to Defend yourself)

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
You shouldn't be on these forums if you're too lazy to back up your claims to anyone here.

They have a article on wookiepedia, I read it. But nothing really back up your claims that they were "TEH BESTZ!111!"

Yet you use that time to post here, nice time management skills yo.

Again, what proves this? There's nothing to prove this. It's even worse when there's no individual to show what the group is truly capable of feat wise, and not the typical "XX GROUP IS THIS AND DOES THAT" comment.

"The Zeison Sha were first created in the Star Wars Roleplaying Game guidebook Hero's Guide, written by Rodney Thompson and J.D. Wiker in 2003. As of yet, no source has described an individual member of the Zeison Sha. "

Sounds like a band of nobodies to me. Ha! yeah if anyone shouldnt be on these Foums that would be you. Because if you N.E.E.D Literary Evidence in the From of Movies Or the Creator's Statement to Understand and Confirm if Something is Factual or Not. thats saying you dont have your Own Perception and Lacking Understanding From your Viewpoint. G.T.H.O.W.T.B.D I Already Proved what they were capable of. and The Part about them being the B.E.S.T will be something P.R.O.V.E.D once G.L or Rodney Thompson or J.D Wiker Introduce them In the Star Wars TV Series and Show Us a Notable Zeison Sha. This is the Reason why there hasnt been any Notable Zeison Sha, because if there were, then a Majority of the Star Wars Fans Attention will be Focused on the Zeison Sha instead of the J.E.D.I

Pwned

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
And this is the BIGGEST opinionated Statement i Have ever Witnessed. Dont you Dare attempt to Argue The Zeison Sha's Capabilities Comparison to the J.E.D.I's. its Not Favoritism. Unless you Know more About Other Force Organizations Other then The J.E.D.I and S.I.T.H DONT ATTEMPT to Contradict this thread, M.O.V.E A.L.O.N.G And Many= Half, The Zeison Sha's Initiates were Telekineticly Stronger then more then Half of the Jedi Order. Many Jedi Which = Most Jedi Since its Above 50%. Which includes Jedi Masters Jedi Knights and Jedi and Padawans Considering how I frequent the EU forum, I would hope I know something about the other Force Orders.

Anyways, yes, your entire argument is favoritism. Especially stating that the Zeishon Sha are more capable at EVERYTHING than the Jedi, just because one guy said that they are better at TK.

Really, you have no way to refute the fact that all the notable people come from the Jedi one way or another (until the RoT, when they can be purely Sith)

I would also like to know your source for all this.

Q99

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Since the J.E.D.I and S.I.T.H can make Telekinetic/Force Sheilds. How come During the Great Jedi Purge Ordered by Darth Sidious. the Jedi Masters and Knights were put into near Extinction by Regular Clone Troopers?

Because they were shot in the back and caught off guard, largely.

Also, the ability is not invincible. Enough fire can overcome it, and any force ability takes concentration and tires the user to use. There is a reason the Zeison Sha use armor, after all, and it is not just for looks.

I will also note only some Zeison Sha had the ability, not all are capable and many had to resort to TK'ing rocks and the like to block blaster bolts instead.

Bodo Baas, a Jedi who visited them, specifically noted their telekinetic skill "lend themselves well to attack more than defense," in his opinion (in the Zeison Sha section of The Essential Guide to the Force).

So no, they are not the invincible defensive paragons you imagine them, as was specifically noted in an official book.

One, why are you capitalizing stuff and putting periods in there?

Two, you now know that's a lie.

Ah, I note you exaggerate here.

For one thing, the Empire occupied Yanibar up to and including the time of the rebellion, meaning they stayed there for decades.

Nor were there specifically no casualties.

It was also noted that Zeison Sha who left Yanibar did so under cover, for fear of Imperial Jedi Hunders.

What, seriously?

Of course people lack understanding if you present no evidence. You seriously expect people to just magically get knowledge of something with no source?

Conversely, I will note that you've said stuff wrong even when prevented with information, like incorrectly saying Jedi and Sith don't have the ability. If you're going to criticize people for not knowing stuff without evidence, maybe you should work on not getting stuff wrong even when you have it.

So, word of advice: In forums, you need proof. You're getting stuff wrong here, and also if other people request information, they need sources, they aren't just going to magic the information into their heads because that's just silly.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Pwned
Considering how I frequent the EU forum, I would hope I know something about the other Force Orders.

Anyways, yes, your entire argument is favoritism. Especially stating that the Zeishon Sha are more capable at EVERYTHING than the Jedi, just because one guy said that they are better at TK.

Really, you have no way to refute the fact that all the notable people come from the Jedi one way or another (until the RoT, when they can be purely Sith)

I would also like to know your source for all this. Nope the entire arguement is based on a Factual Capabilities Comparison. and No Not Every Notable person Came from the J.E.D.I since they werent the First Force Organization. the First and Most Flawed Force Organization was the Jal Shey founded before 25,779 BBY, the Jedi was founded in 25,793. The Jedi Order wanted to Perceive the Force from a Spiritual Viewpoint Rather Then a Intellectual one, Such as Demonstrated by The Jal Shey. and Sources reffering to the Zeison Sha Cannon and Capabilities? Hero's Guide. Jedi vs Sith the Essential Guide to the Force. Knights Of The Old Republic Campaign guide. The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. and the Jedi Academy Training Manual. and 1 Last Thing, if you are going to attempt to Contradict this thread at least Learn how to Spell Zeison Sha, ( Not Zeishon Sha Degenerate)

GenomeFrozener

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Nope the entire arguement is based on a Factual Capabilities Comparison. and No Not Every Notable person Came from the J.E.D.I since they werent the First Force Organization. the First and Most Flawed Force Organization was the Jal Shey founded before 25,779 BBY, the Jedi was founded in 25,793. The Jedi Order wanted to Perceive the Force from a Spiritual Viewpoint Rather Then a Intellectual one, Such as Demonstrated by The Jal Shey. and Sources reffering to the Zeison Sha Cannon and Capabilities? Hero's Guide. Jedi vs Sith the Essential Guide to the Force. Knights Of The Old Republic Campaign guide. The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia. and the Jedi Academy Training Manual. and 1 Last Thing, if you are going to attempt to Contradict this thread at least Learn how to Spell Zeison Sha, ( Not Zeishon Sha Degenerate)

Give us actual quotes from said sources please.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Because they were shot in the back and caught off guard, largely.

Also, the ability is not invincible. Enough fire can overcome it, and any force ability takes concentration and tires the user to use. There is a reason the Zeison Sha use armor, after all, and it is not just for looks.

I will also note only some Zeison Sha had the ability, not all are capable and many had to resort to TK'ing rocks and the like to block blaster bolts instead.

Bodo Baas, a Jedi who visited them, specifically noted their telekinetic skill "lend themselves well to attack more than defense," in his opinion (in the Zeison Sha section of The Essential Guide to the Force).

So no, they are not the invincible defensive paragons you imagine them, as was specifically noted in an official book.

One, why are you capitalizing stuff and putting periods in there?

Two, you now know that's a lie.

Ah, I note you exaggerate here.

For one thing, the Empire occupied Yanibar up to and including the time of the rebellion, meaning they stayed there for decades.

Nor were there specifically no casualties.

It was also noted that Zeison Sha who left Yanibar did so under cover, for fear of Imperial Jedi Hunders.

What, seriously?

Of course people lack understanding if you present no evidence. You seriously expect people to just magically get knowledge of something with no source?

Conversely, I will note that you've said stuff wrong even when prevented with information, like incorrectly saying Jedi and Sith don't have the ability. If you're going to criticize people for not knowing stuff without evidence, maybe you should work on not getting stuff wrong even when you have it.

So, word of advice: In forums, you need proof. You're getting stuff wrong here, and also if other people request information, they need sources, they aren't just going to magic the information into their heads because that's just silly. Lets see first the Jedi Masters Such as Ki Adi Mundi. Aaayla Secura. Plo Koon. Eeth Koth. Agen Kolar. and Shaak Ti were the Jedi Shot in the Back repeatedly by Clone Troopers and Cone Commandos before they had a good Chance to Defend themselfs. the Other Jedi, Jedi Knights and Padawans in the Jedi Temple at Coruscant saw the incoming threat that Dark Jedi Anakin Skywalker and his Clone Troopers posed, and Yet Most of those Jedi, Jedi Knights and Padawans (While Even having their Lightsabers NOT using Force/Telekinetic Sheilds) got overwelmed by Blaster Bolt Shots By Clone Troopers, which is in other words Pathetic. Not To mention that Anakin Skywalker Killed a few Jedi Initiates at the time. The Ability to Create a Physical Telekinetic lairered Sheild and a Physical Force Sheild have differences. Such as the Physical Force Sheilds that the Jedi Masters were proficient in using had Drawbacks. Such as Halting your Ability to use Offensive Attacks. as well as Draining your Spiritual Energy to Keep the Force wall intact. The Telekinetic Sheild that the Zeison Sha Warriors were Proficient at Using Completely Surrounded the Outer lairers of Their Bodys, (Such as all Places around the Body) while the Telekinetic Sheild Giving them a Inpenetrable Deffense, They also had the Ability to Attack Physically and with their Telekinetic Energy. and Knowing the Sentient Brain's Telekinetic Energy is Self Sustaining (And even Science Proved that to be a Fact) The Zeison Sha Warriors Telekinetic Sheilds were Near Infinite and Not Draining their Brain at Such a Fast Rate Similar to a Force Sheild. this is the Reason Why a Zeison Sha Warriror Cant be Defeated In Direct Combat. (i never said the Zeison Sha Initiates or Zeison Sha Warriors were Invincible Paragons like you Stated Earlyer, Just Very Very Hard to Kill) And you are Right on 1 Point the Zeison Sha did leave Yannibar and did so Undercover in Fear of Jedi Hunters. but Only After they Pushed the Imperial Invaders Who Once Occupied Yannibar, and the Zeison Sha did so Without Ships Speeder Bikes Fleets or Vehicles. and after the Conflict they Left Yannibar, but they left in fear that the Jedi Hunters would Go after their Families and Kill them or use them as Bait to Draw Them out. (Since in the Zeison Sha Tradition Staying Close and Growing Older with your Family was Encouraged and Enforced to prevent the Child Seperation ideal from growing Past the Jedi Order to Other Force Organizations including theirs) And Yes i did say People Lack Understanding because even if "Evidence" was Presented on the Table, if you are arguing with a "Closed Minded" Person No Matter what evidence you give that person he will keep his opinion no matter if he's Right or Wrong Nothing gets Through to Him( A.K.A Brick wall ) but i already Presented my Sources, Scroll up to 1 of my Previous Messages to View Them. thats the Last "Evidence" i will give to you reffering to the Zeison Sha to amuse you. And 1 Last Piece of Advice. If anyone goes on Forum Websites to State a Non Majority Vote Fact to the Popular Choice, Naturally Everyone will go Against that Person's "Evidence" or Not, untill a Creator of the Specific Series States a Fact that Everyone Disagrees With. and I Didnt INCORRECTLY State what the Jedi and Sith were Capable of its just you wont Understand Unless i spell it out in Capital Letters. J.E.D.I S.I.T.H Z.E.I.S.O.N S.H.A

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Give us actual quotes from said sources please. No i already Presented the "Evidence" that you so Desperately Awaited. if you want the Exact Qoute Read it for Yourself, to Gain The Knowledge, and UNDERSTANDING for yourself to avoid a future Mix Up. im done Indulging everyone for today.

Q99

Or you could just post the direct quote like I did and everyone else does.

Someone who does not post direct quotes is very likely to be misremembering or just wrong.

And I presented evidence to you of a direct quote of someone who knew the Zeison Sha personally saying their defense wasn't that great, and you ignored it.

You're just describing yourself there. Other people here are willing to listen to evidence, you're the only one ignoring things. You just decided to call everyone else close minded because you know very well that's what you are and that you can't actually support a debate with evidence.

You haven't proven they have invincible shields, you've just asserted it, and I have provided evidence to the contrary with a direct quote and source.

Bodo Baas said the Zeison Sha telekinetic skill "lend themselves well to attack more than defense," (in the Zeison Sha section of The Essential Guide to the Force) in case you missed it. Direct exact quote.

Pwned

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Nope the entire arguement is based on a Factual Capabilities Comparison. and No Not Every Notable person Came from the J.E.D.I since they werent the First Force Organization. the First and Most Flawed Force Organization was the Jal Shey founded before 25,779 BBY, the Jedi was founded in 25,793) You realize that you contradicted yourself here, correct? 25,793 would comebefore 25,779 in the BBY/ABY calender. It works like B.C./A.D. (Or B.C.E./C.E if you prefer)

In that the BBY years are a countdown. Therefore, the Jedi were the first.

And yes, the notables of every era came from Jedi/Sith. I have never heard of a great Zeison Sha, Jal Shey, Matuki, Jensaarai, etc. Person. They never even really stepped up to the galactic stage like the Jedi and Sith did.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Pwned
You realize that you contradicted yourself here, correct? 25,793 would comebefore 25,779 in the BBY/ABY calender. It works like B.C./A.D. (Or B.C.E./C.E if you prefer)

In that the BBY years are a countdown. Therefore, the Jedi were the first.

And yes, the notables of every era came from Jedi/Sith. I have never heard of a great Zeison Sha, Jal Shey, Matuki, Jensaarai, etc. Person. They never even really stepped up to the galactic stage like the Jedi and Sith did. No i didnt Contradict myself here, but thanks for the Tip, i didnt know that BBY stood for Countdown. and No the Jal Shey were the First Force Order but Flawed due to their Viewpoint of the Force. and their Lack of Physical Feats. which is what made Other Force Orders Rise due to their Incompetence.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Or you could just post the direct quote like I did and everyone else does.

Someone who does not post direct quotes is very likely to be misremembering or just wrong.

And I presented evidence to you of a direct quote of someone who knew the Zeison Sha personally saying their defense wasn't that great, and you ignored it.

You're just describing yourself there. Other people here are willing to listen to evidence, you're the only one ignoring things. You just decided to call everyone else close minded because you know very well that's what you are and that you can't actually support a debate with evidence.

You haven't proven they have invincible shields, you've just asserted it, and I have provided evidence to the contrary with a direct quote and source.

Bodo Baas said the Zeison Sha telekinetic skill "lend themselves well to attack more than defense," (in the Zeison Sha section of The Essential Guide to the Force) in case you missed it. Direct exact quote. I didnt Ignore your Statement' because if i did i wouldnt have replied. and Yes what you say about the Bodo Baas's Quote is True, but the Only thing about that is, there was no Discription of what Zeison Sha Ranks were Fighting against each other in a Test of Demonstration. The Zeison Sha Warriors Were Unmatched in Telekinesis and Strong Enough to Make Telekinetic Sheilds. the way it was Described the Zeison Sha's Initiates were Fighting Each Other in a Match of Demonstration, Displaying their Telekinetic Skills with the Discblade. there are No Notable Jedi Masters who Know of the Full Capabilities of the Zeison Sha Warriors, Only Bodo Baas Observed their Initiates and gave his Opinion from what he Saw. And its Common Logic that dictates that the Human/Sentient Brain has Self Sustaining Energy/Telekinetic Energy. which means that the Zeison Sha Warriors Telekinetic energy did not exhaust itself quickly nor at a normal pace.

GenomeFrozener

Originally posted by Pwned
They never even really stepped up to the galactic stage like the Jedi and Sith did.

This, if they're so damn great, how come we've never seen a individual rise from said group. Again, they sound like a band of red shirts to me.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
This, if they're so damn great, how come we've never seen a individual rise from said group. Again, they sound like a band of red shirts to me. The Reason why the Zeison Sha dont have any Notable Indivisuals that show the full feats of What their Force Organization is capable of is because of 1 Primary Reason. The Jedi and Sith are the Main Focuses of the Star Wars Franchise Right now and Brought into the World in 1977, The Creators are not Done Making Stories about the Jedis vs Sith Yet, they are trying to create a big Enough Following twords the 2 main Force Orders while Making as much Money Possible in the Process, and when they are Done They will Begin to Show Notable Zeison Sha, more Notable Matukai Jal Shey Miraluka Rakata and Other. if the Zeison Sha were to have a Notable Warrior shown, more then 60% of the Main focus on Jedi would have been Diverted to the Zeison Sha, due to their Philosophy. their Physical Constitution and Strength. and Feats of Unmatched Telekinetic power that would Outmaneuver/overpower Many Force Capabilities and Techniques. its Not the Zeison Sha's Time to be shown. there will be 1 Notable Zeison Sha Initiate shown in the Future. and as for their Elite Zeison Sha Warriors, that remains to be seen.

Q99

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
I didnt Ignore your Statement' because if i did i wouldnt have replied.

You replied but didn't have a sufficient answer for the quote. You dodged it.

The natural conclusion is you knew it undercut your point, so you tried to avoid it.

Bodo knew about the shields and their powerful telekinesis and still said they had problems with defense.

This directly contradicts your view on their unbeatability.

Also, all that was said was they were stronger than most Jedi. Not that they were unmatched. Not that Jedi and Sith who also were powerful enough with TK to make telekinetic shields weren't just as strong.

Most Jedi and Sith can't pull that off, after all, so if a lot of them can, that does mean they do indeed have a higher average. On average, they're better at TK. That doesn't mean that other Jedi and Sith can't also be exceptionally above average, and in fact we know quite a few who are, like Master Thon, who was known for fighting with a TK sphere up for protection.

Wow, you just totally made that up entirely on your own big grin

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
You replied but didn't have a sufficient answer for the quote. You dodged it.

The natural conclusion is you knew it undercut your point, so you tried to avoid it.

Bodo knew about the shields and their powerful telekinesis and still said they had problems with defense.

This directly contradicts your view on their unbeatability.

Also, all that was said was they were stronger than most Jedi. Not that they were unmatched. Not that Jedi and Sith who also were powerful enough with TK to make telekinetic shields weren't just as strong.

Most Jedi and Sith can't pull that off, after all, so if a lot of them can, that does mean they do indeed have a higher average. On average, they're better at TK. That doesn't mean that other Jedi and Sith can't also be exceptionally above average, and in fact we know quite a few who are, like Master Thon, who was known for fighting with a TK sphere up for protection.

Wow, you just totally made that up entirely on your own big grin

No book says anything remotely like that. You use the phrase 'common logic' but what you really meant is 'I made it up and called it logic'.

If true, that'd also apply to Jedi and Sith TK, btw, since they all use telekinetic energy the same way. No i didnt DODGE anything, there was no Direct Qoute saying what the Zeison Sha Warriors were fully Capable of. only the Description for the Zeison Sha Warrior Armor in Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic II the Sith Lords, directly Stated that Zeison Sha Warriors were Known for their Survival Skills and Unmatched in Telekinetic Force Powers and were Strong enough to make a Physical Sheild using Telekinetic Energy. Play through the Game, Find the Zeison Sha Warrior Armor and Read the Description. and here's where you Contradicted Yourself. earlier Before you kept qouting my Messages saying i dont have "Evidence" to back up my "Claims" and therefore Making things Up, and then Said dont State Something you cant back up with proper "Sources" or "Evidence". well Isnt that the same thing you are doing About Bodo Baas. he said NOTHING About the ZEISON SHA WARRIORS nor their Telekinetic Sheilds. He Only Saw 2 Unidentified Zeison Sha Ranks, (he Observed their Offensive and Defensive Techniques but Saw No Telekinetic Sheilds) Displaying their Telekinetic Skills with the Discblade in a test of Demonstration. You Contradicted yourself. and I didnt Make Up the Part about Self Sustaining energy. The Refference to what i Previously Stated will come in time. and Putting the Zeison Sha Warrior's Survival Skills added with Telekinetic Sheilds, bascicly says that the Zeison Sha Telekinetic Sheilds were unlike the Jedi's F.O.R.C.E walls , but more Advanced since they Hardly or Never suffer Casualties.

GenomeFrozener

Why do you post periods in between words?

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Why do you post periods in between words? I dont know maybe for fun i guess? Hehehehehehahahahahahahahahhaha! xD oh wait what? $$

Q99

No i didnt DODGE anything, there was no Direct Qoute saying what the Zeison Sha Warriors were fully Capable of.

There you go dodging again! There was a direct quote and you dodged it!

So are some Jedi and Sith who are good at TK.

It's not an unheard of ability that makes them better than everyone else or anything like that. It requires strong TK, but multiple orders have it.

Exactly, you just say something is true without being able to prove it.

Nope, it is in fact the exact opposite, I posted the exact quote and exactly where the quote came from.

I provide evidence, you don't.

Evidence trumps opinion lacking evidence.

He was specifically talking about Zeison Sha warriors and their telekinesis.

Also, again, plenty of Jedi and Sith have telekinetic shields. It's not an ability only they have. I will even remind you that the Zeison Sha are a branch off of the Jedi, their techniques came from Jedi techniques.

And Jedi have been shown to have force walls and telekinetic shields.

It's bad writing skills is what it is. It makes you harder to read.

Also, don't has a ' in it, and I is capitalized, and you should use occasional paragraph breaks.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
No i didnt DODGE anything, there was no Direct Qoute saying what the Zeison Sha Warriors were fully Capable of.

There you go dodging again! There was a direct quote and you dodged it!

So are some Jedi and Sith who are good at TK.

It's not an unheard of ability that makes them better than everyone else or anything like that. It requires strong TK, but multiple orders have it.

Exactly, you just say something is true without being able to prove it.

Nope, it is in fact the exact opposite, I posted the exact quote and exactly where the quote came from.

I provide evidence, you don't.

Evidence trumps opinion lacking evidence.

He was specifically talking about Zeison Sha warriors and their telekinesis.

Also, again, plenty of Jedi and Sith have telekinetic shields. It's not an ability only they have. I will even remind you that the Zeison Sha are a branch off of the Jedi, their techniques came from Jedi techniques.

And Jedi have been shown to have force walls and telekinetic shields.

It's bad writing skills is what it is. It makes you harder to read.

Also, don't has a ' in it, and I is capitalized, and you should use occasional paragraph breaks. Dodging? ...... Pathetic. And there you go again making assumptions. there was No Exact qoute telling what the Zeison Sha Warriors were fully Capable of. Only Bodo Baas stating what he saw from 2 Unidentified Zeison Sha Ranks Fighting against each Other in a Test of Demonstration displaying their Telekinetic skills With the Discblade.(Anything said Otherwise is your "opinion" wink

he didnt qoute anything about the Zeison Sha Warriors nor their Telekinetic Sheilds specificly. that part is what you added. wait you are adding and deleting' getting on me about not having and Exact qoute from a Specific Character to "Prove" what i say' when yet you dont either. you dont have Any exact qoutes reffering to the Zeison Sha warriors Capabilities with Telekinetic Sheilds nor attacks. and if you did you'd make yourself look like you were editing the Zeison Sha article in Wookiepedia to futher prove your point' but i know you wouldnt do that? oh wait. and oh! you said Before Bodo Baas was Stating what the Zeison Sha warriors were capable of with their "telekinetic Sheilds" and now that just Switched to the you saying Bodo baas was "Specifically" Talking about Zeison Sha Warriors and their "Telekinesis" even though the Zeison Sha warriors werent Specifically stated? laughing

And Plenty of Jedi and Sith have Telekinetic/Force walls and Spheres. The Zeison Sha warriors specialized in Telekinetic Powers, meaning that their Telekinetic Sheilds were more Advanced in Protection wise terms' then the Jedi's Force walls and Telekinetic Spheres. Since the Zeison Sha Warriors never suffered Casualties that had Causes. Picture it this way Q99 because this is as simple as i can put it. The Zeison Sha Warrior's Telekinetic Sheilds were Just like the Sheilds in were seen in Halo's 1 and 2. Sheilds that Surrounded the ENTIRE OUTER LAIRERS OF THE BODY. Just the Only difference is that, the Zeison Sha's Telekinetic Sheilds dosent Break nor Exhaust the User no matter how Many Blaster Bolts or Force attacks hits it. also Not requiring the User to Regenerate/ Guide the Sheild to defend themselfs in Certin areas. basicly the Zeison Sha Warriors Telekinetic Sheilds are just like putting on Indestructible Telekinetic Armor for short. Q99 you are turning into more of a Hypocrite with every Reply, so keep me Entertained will ya wink

GenomeFrozener

There we have it folks! Even the Zeison Sha fanboy admits it!

Funny, sounds a bit like you.

Neither do you.

Neither do you.

Why would he edit the article of a group of nobodies? http://twitchtvfaces.com/images/Kappa.png

Lol what the... Where the hell did you get that idea?

Not only are your agrument skills terrible, you can't spell much less form a cohenrent sentence.

You must be either a dunce or a troll. Hell, maybe even both.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
There we have it folks! Even the Zeison Sha fanboy admits it!

You must be either a dunce or a troll. Hell, maybe even both. Zeison Sha fan boy admitts it? No Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic II the Sith Lords States what the Zeison Sha warriors were Capable of In Telekinetic Powers and in the Force, that was not a lie. its just no Notable Characters in the Star Wars Series know what the Zeison Sha warriors were capable of. only the Creators of the Star Wars Series Stated what they are capable of, and one of those forms that they told The Zeison Sha warriors Capabilities in was the Zeison Sha Warrior Armor's Description in Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic II the Sith Lords. and where did i get that idea? The Zeison Sha warriors were specialist in Telekinetic Powers. and Known for their Survival Skills A.k.a Known as Rarely Suffering Casualties that have causes. and Since they were known to Surpass Many Jedi in the Telekinetic area. that means that they have Superior Telekinetic Offensives and Defensives that hasnt been yet witnessed by the Jedi Order. Poor Argument skills? Can't Spell? Somebody's trying to get technical. but i will warn you. you dont want the same thing to happen here like it did at Mangafox.

Q99

Yea, and no-one's saying it's a lie.

However, you're then taking that and running way past what was stated and into the realms of speculation and fanon.

They aren't the only ones with exceptional Telekinesis.

darth buttmunch

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Zeison Sha fan boy admitts it? No Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic II the Sith Lords States what the Zeison Sha warriors were Capable of In Telekinetic Powers and in the Force, that was not a lie. its just no Notable Characters in the Star Wars Series know what the Zeison Sha warriors were capable of. only the Creators of the Star Wars Series Stated what they are capable of, and one of those forms that they told The Zeison Sha warriors Capabilities in was the Zeison Sha Warrior Armor's Description in Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic II the Sith Lords. and where did i get that idea? The Zeison Sha warriors were specialist in Telekinetic Powers. and Known for their Survival Skills A.k.a Known as Rarely Suffering Casualties that have causes. and Since they were known to Surpass Many Jedi in the Telekinetic area. that means that they have Superior Telekinetic Offensives and Defensives that hasnt been yet witnessed by the Jedi Order. Poor Argument skills? Can't Spell? Somebody's trying to get technical. but i will warn you. you dont want the same thing to happen here like it did at Mangafox.

^The product of Ush's efforts on this forum the past year.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, and no-one's saying it's a lie.

However, you're then taking that and running way past what was stated and into the realms of speculation and fanon.

They aren't the only ones with exceptional Telekinesis. There is no Speculation nor Fanon about what i say twords the Zeison Sha Matukai or Jal Shey. and yes you are right about the Zeison Sha not being the only ones powerful in in telekinesis and other telekinetic abilitys. Tulak Hord is 1 example. he was able to pull down a entire carrier with sheer use of Telekinesis stating he was a master of Telekinesis similar to a Zeison Sha Warrior. The Zeison Sha are the most powerful Light Side force organization in the Use of Telekinetic Powers. being known as masters of the telekinetic powers and known for their Survival skills confirms that their telekinetic sheilds are unlike the jedi's force walls and telekinetic spheres' but rather more advance in defense that has yet to be witnessed by the jedi order and other force using sects.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by darth buttmunch
^The product of Ush's efforts on this forum the past year. i am no product of anyone. and who's Ush?

Lord Lucien

Fail.

Q99

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
being known as masters of the telekinetic powers and known for their Survival skills confirms that their telekinetic sheilds are unlike the jedi's force walls and telekinetic spheres' but rather more advance in defense that has yet to be witnessed by the jedi order and other force using sects.

This is the speculation/fanon part. Nothing says theirs are better than the Jedi/Sith who can do it.

No-one has ever compared them in canon. All that was said is that most ZS are good at telekinesis.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
This is the speculation/fanon part. Nothing says theirs are better than the Jedi/Sith who can do it.

No-one has ever compared them in canon. All that was said is that most ZS are good at telekinesis. There is no speculation nor fannon about everything i have said conserning the zeison sha. The zeison sha werent just good at telekinesis and telekinetic powers' they were masters of telekinesis and telekinetic powers. The reason why no one compared them nor gave them any notable indivisuals for the time being is because of their capabilities. It was described that the zeison sha's initiates were already capable of using the force to wrap their body up completely' meaning the zeison sha's initiates were using the force to surround the physical body's outer surface to block many forms of physical attacks' and resist most forms of force offensives' and to resist amounts of damage that would normally hurt disorient cripple or kill a person. But the zeison sha initiate's force armor wasnt perfected' the side effects of the zeison sha initiates using that newfound technique is their spiritual energy taking a massive drain on the user after the technique has been deactivated' which in some cases could prove to be fatal depending how long the technique is in effect. (such as 48 hours of continual usage) This is why the zeison sha's warriors use telekinetic made physical sheilds instead of using the force to wrap themselfs up. thus never suffering casualties that could have been caused by their planet's ecosystem' and the empire's technological advantages and attempts to stamp them out similar to what happened to the jedi and the matukai. The zeison sha will not be mentioned again for awhile because of their capabilities and once everyone witnesses their telekinetic capabilities. the question will be posed. since the zeison sha are a undefeated force organization and known for never suffering casualties during war. then why arent they fighting the sith instead of the jedi? and then the answer to that will be. The zeison sha's numbers are no where near as big as the jedi order. along with the fact that if they were just as big as the jedi order. people would want to see zeison sha vs sith. Instead of jedi vs sith which defeats the whole purpose of star wars.

Jinsoku Takai

J.E.D.I.? What the ***k??? Jedi isn't an acronym HWKA.

Q99

Except you're saying stuff not from any book or show, like how their telekinetic fields are better than those of Jedi who use the move.

That, by definition, is speculation/fanon.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Except you're saying stuff not from any book or show, like how their telekinetic fields are better than those of Jedi who use the move.

That, by definition, is speculation/fanon. Actually all of what i said about the zeison sha warriors is stated in the zeison sha warrior's armor description in star wars knights of the old republic II the sith lords. But you still didnt do what i asked you to do. Find the zeison sha warrior armor and read the description and thats where it states the zeison sha's telekinetic made physical sheild's advancement. you will not find the exact description stated in the zeison sha warrior's armor on wookieepedia i already tried that. That of everything i have said about the zeison sha by definition is a fact. i have still yet to mention one more fact about the zeison sha's organization. zeison sha warrior is NOT the highest rank within their order.

Pwned

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
HWKA. I truly, truly hope you are incorrect with this. Please be incorrect. My brain doesn't deserve that, quanchi, and the new RJ......

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
HWKA. Oh gods... not Rudy again.

Q99

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Actually all of what i said about the zeison sha warriors is stated in the zeison sha warrior's armor description in star wars knights of the old republic II the sith lords. But you still didnt do what i asked you to do. Find the zeison sha warrior armor and read the description and thats where it states the zeison sha's telekinetic made physical sheild's advancement. you will not find the exact description stated in the zeison sha warrior's armor on wookieepedia i already tried that. That of everything i have said about the zeison sha by definition is a fact.

And yet, when asked to provide quotes on precisely what was said, you refused.

You say right there that you know exactly where it is, so why not just write out the quote yourself, word for word?

I do believe that while it said they had physical shields, it probably says nothing about their physical shields being better than those of other people who can use the ability, and you're likely speculating fanon-ing.

KylarWhite

Seriously, even if they are the most powerful in telekinesis (and I'm not saying they are), that doesn't matter. To be the most powerful order of light side force sensitives, they have to be good, better than good actually, in more than one area of the force.

And regarding evidence, you're the one trying to assert a claim, so it's up to you to find and present supporting evidence, not us.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
And yet, when asked to provide quotes on precisely what was said, you refused.

You say right there that you know exactly where it is, so why not just write out the quote yourself, word for word?

I do believe that while it said they had physical shields, it probably says nothing about their physical shields being better than those of other people who can use the ability, and you're likely speculating fanon-ing. And yet you still dont get it do you? even though i thought i made myself clear the first time. There was NO exact quote from any character in star wars explaining what the zeison sha warriors were capable of. Only the in game description in Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic II The Sith Lords Zeison Sha Warrior armor's description and it reads. The Zeison Sha warriors were unmatched in telekinetic force powers and strong enough to make a physical sheild using the mind' it was described as using the force to wrap around themselfs. (A.K.A sheilds that surrounds the entire surface of the body' NOT using Force walls or force spheres for defense that later get overwhelmed by blaster fire and force attacks) and do you want me to give you the whole description? even though the sentence of note has already been revealed?

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by KylarWhite
Seriously, even if they are the most powerful in telekinesis (and I'm not saying they are), that doesn't matter. To be the most powerful order of light side force sensitives, they have to be good, better than good actually, in more than one area of the force.

And regarding evidence, you're the one trying to assert a claim, so it's up to you to find and present supporting evidence, not us. And i can give you plenty of reasons why the Zeison Sha are the most powerful order of lightside force sensitives. Reason number 1' they have never suffered a casualty during the Great Jedi Perge and ultimately Survived' even though the empire had the technological advantage' the same jedi perge that was ordered by darth sidious' and one that torn the Jedi order and the Matukai apart putting them both into near extinction smile

. The zeison sha were fighting the empire for decades after the imperial occupation of yannibar' and even with their lack of technology (such as speeder bikes tanks ships and man made sheilds) they still drove the empire off their planet without casualties on both the Zeison Sha Initiates and the Zeison Sha warriors not requiring the highest rank of the zeison sha to approach the battlefeild reading

. Reason 2 why they are the most powerful order of Light Side Force Sensitives is that. The Zeison Sha warriors were masters of telekinesis and telekinetic powers' telekinetic powers that surpass many of the jedi's force capabilities. Example Tulak Hord. Tulak Hord was a master of Telekinesis and was strong enough to pull down things ranging up to assault ships to assault carriers with little trouble destroying them in the process. That telekinetic ability was fairly common among the Zeison sha warriors since they were also known Masters of that art and also one of the reasons why the empire fled the yanibar system in search of other force orders that be can targeted for persecution reading

. Reason 3 they havent shown the highest rank of the Zeison Sha order. The higher the rank in the Zeison Sha the more powerful the indivisual will be in telekinetic powers physically and in the force. There are countless Reason why there are the most powerful' reasons that will be witnessed in the future reading

and regarding evidence? the evidence has already been revealed' but if you want to say that its a opinion' depending on how high its disagreeable. then you should investigate what the person is stating to later find truth or deceit in what he has shown as evidence or or stated. there is no CLAIMS to anything i say no expression

Pwned

The Tulak Hord example..... Well, that requires raw power. You have absolutely no proof any Zeison Sha could replicate that.

Give us the quote from your source that is NOT KoToR 2 (as that pertains solely to that era) Preferably a guide book or something. Then page number.
At that point, you argument stands.

KylarWhite

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
And i can give you plenty of reasons why the Zeison Sha are the most powerful order of lightside force sensitives. Reason number 1' they have never suffered a casualty during the Great Jedi Perge and ultimately Survived' even though the empire had the technological advantage' the same jedi perge that was ordered by darth sidious' and one that torn the Jedi order and the Matukai apart putting them both into near extinction smile

.

You still didn't present any evidence of their capability in any aspect of the force but telekinesis.

And again, please provide evidence for your claims regarding the Zeison Sha, otherwise we can't take you seriously. As I said, it's you that is making the claim they're the most powerful order of light side force sensitives, so it's you that must provide the evidence to support your claim.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Pwned
The Tulak Hord example..... Well, that requires raw power. You have absolutely no proof any Zeison Sha could replicate that.

Give us the quote from your source that is NOT KoToR 2 (as that pertains solely to that era) Preferably a guide book or something. Then page number.
At that point, you argument stands. No that will not be necessary sad

. KOTOR 2 is already proof enough since the people who created the game put the exact quote in the Zeison Sha Warrior's armor description. Giving The Zeison Sha a brief description as being Survivalist who can make the best out of any given situation. And natural born Masters of Telekinesis and Telekinetic Powers no expression

. I have no PROOF? do you know how to decipher Metaphores and Allegories aside from Understanding literacy to even contradict this thread? because it seems very likely you will only understand literacy as living evidence' and anything said in another way that is not within the realm of that 1 area is considered opinionated and theoretical if not seen exactly' Since thats your way of thinking that would mean you are surrounded by the clouds of ignorance no expression

. its has already been quoted by Khem Val that only a master of telekinesis can pull down assault ships and assault carriers with ease (such as demonstrated by Tulak Hord even though he was more known to be the greatest lightsaber master of the Sith lords rather then a master of telekinesis) And Since the Zeison Sha warriors were already known to be Masters of Telekinesis and Telekinetic Powers. Put the little pieces together and what does that mean smile

? ******** this is fun. big grin

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by KylarWhite
You still didn't present any evidence of their capability in any aspect of the force but telekinesis.

And again, please provide evidence for your claims regarding the Zeison Sha, otherwise we can't take you seriously. As I said, it's you that is making the claim they're the most powerful order of light side force sensitives, so it's you that must provide the evidence to support your claim. I already Presented evidence that the Zeison Sha warrior's telekinetic abilities far succeed the Jedi's Force offensive and defensive capabilities' which is why they are known to be survivalist and didnt suffer a casualty during the great jedi perge and ultimately pushed the imperial invaders back even with their lack of technology. And anyone that dosent take me seriously thinks i could have been speculating about everything? thats fine with me smile

they want to call it a opinion now' but once its revealed in the future all the people will end up looking stupid but will still want to debate it to avoid looking like a complete ignorant indivisual smile

KylarWhite

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
I already Presented evidence that the Zeison Sha warrior's telekinetic abilities far succeed the Jedi's Force offensive and defensive capabilities' which is why they are known to be survivalist and didnt suffer a casualty during the great jedi perge and ultimately pushed the imperial invaders back even with their lack of technology. And anyone that dosent take me seriously thinks i could have been speculating about everything? thats fine with me smile

You claim they're the most powerful order of light side force sensitives, with no evidence, rattling off random claims of their capabilities that you expect us to just fall down on our knees and adore. How are we supposed to take you seriously? Present us with evidence of their capabilities, and things would be different.

About this supposedly incredible telekinetic shield you proclaim singles them out as the best, other people on the thread have revealed Jedi, or other force users, just as capable as performing this feat, who aren't exceptionally powerful. And again, telekinesis is only one area of the force. To be the most powerful order, the Zeison Sha would have to be exceptionally proficient in several areas of the force, yet all you claim concerns telekinesis.

And by evidence, I'd like to think you know that means actual quotes and the like. Furthermore, one of the few quotes you've shown, you got wrong, which isn't suggesting anything positive about your claims.

Pwned

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
No that will not be necessary sad

? ******** this is fun. big grin

......

No. Most of them would not have the raw power to pull down a cruiser, it would deplete their force reserves too quickly. Or are they all as strong as freaking Starkiller?

Where did you even get the thing about Hord? I have never heard that.

If I am so dumb as to not understand metaphors and allegories, dumb them down. But considering how you HAVEN'T posted evidence, even in a metaphor or allegory, means that now you are just making personal attacks so you can hide your lack of knowledge.

No, KoToR 2 is not proof enough, as that pertains to that era. Give me a quote that pertains to the other eras, which you in your obviously boundless knowledge can certainly provide. That way you can prove they are the most powerful eve.... Oh wait.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by KylarWhite
You claim they're the most powerful order of light side force sensitives, with no evidence, rattling off random claims of their capabilities that you expect us to just fall down on our knees and adore. How are we supposed to take you seriously? Present us with evidence of their capabilities, and things would be different.

About this supposedly incredible telekinetic shield you proclaim singles them out as the best, other people on the thread have revealed Jedi, or other force users, just as capable as performing this feat, who aren't exceptionally powerful. And again, telekinesis is only one area of the force. To be the most powerful order, the Zeison Sha would have to be exceptionally proficient in several areas of the force, yet all you claim concerns telekinesis.

And by evidence, I'd like to think you know that means actual quotes and the like. Furthermore, one of the few quotes you've shown, you got wrong, which isn't suggesting anything positive about your claims. I dont EXPECT you or anyone else to do anything lets get that clear first. Another thing is' evidence comes in 3 forms' Explanatory Literal and Metaphoric. There are many powerful Jedi that are capable of creating shields that are of something similar in quality but not of a duplication' but people sometimes confuse the meanings to the words Similar and Replication.

Some Jedi are capable of using the force to create a defensive wall to block incoming attacks temporarily' but the wall later gets overwhelmed by large amounts of Blaster fire.(Provided that the Shields the jedi create for defense takes a drain on their spiritual energy that continues to grow overtime while the technique is in effect and doubles when attacks begin to mount up against it' dispersing the shield shortly afterwards) And some jedi are capable of using the force to create spheres for defense but later gets overpowered by small amounts of Force attacks' depending on if the user can withstand the energy depletion that comes with every hit against the sphere.

Also i never said their shields were incredible' that part "incredible" is what you added. It was said the Zeison Sha Warriors were masters of telekinetics' being strong enough to make a physical shield that covered the entire outer surface of their body' covering all possible openings in defense that could be exploited' a shield that is indestructible' and later evidenced as a fact when a unidentified jedi gives his description on the Zeison Sha Warrior's shield describing it as using the force to wrap around themselfs. Also the Zeison Sha Warrior's shield is confirmed to be as described previously' in their history it is said that the Zeison Sha Survived the empire's attempts to stamp them out. Or in other words the Zeison Sha survived the empire's attempts to kill them' due to their higher telekinetic defensive capabilities.

You saying im rattling off random claims with no EVIDENCE? thats coming from a person who will wait for the evidence to present itself in literacy in order to make it out as a factual confirmation. Rather then investigate what's been said and shown as evidence giving a independant observation and later discovering whether it's true or not putting all the pieces of the puzzle together solely using one's perception' dont make me laugh laughing

.

The only quote that i mentioned that wasnt said exactly conserning the Zeison Sha was the one made by Bodo Baas. even though i incorrectly put Bodo's statement in' the meaning to what both I and Bodo baas made was of the same meaning' (But said indirectly) the Zeison Sha are Masters of Telekinesis and Telekinetic powers and their capabilities in this area surpass those of most jedi in history.

And when it comes to the Zeison Sha being the Most powerful Order Of Light Side Force Sensitives this is a fact. i'll Sight some specific examples using the 3 Force organizations that target 1 aspect of abilities' such as. The Jedi. The Matukai. The Zeison Sha.

The Jedi focuses primarily on reaching true Understanding of the Force as well as achieving the spiritual perfection while unlocking as many unique spiritual capabilities in the process while creating a following for the younger members of their order to do so in the future. while some of their order lack that mindset the jedi teach in a multitude of different areas to match the criteria of what their students hope to achieve.

The Matukai primarily focuses reaching the Physical Perfection as well keeping a mindset to avoiding the Fall to the Dark Side' keeping one's self pure. The Matukai has made considerable progress twords the goal of reaching physical perfection and have done so in many cases reaching near physical perfection' even going so far as a order to build up and draw out force sensitivity in a indivisual who failed to be seen as a any form of embodyment in the Force' doing so by using meditative Martial Arts' and using exrtacise as another form of meditation.

The Zeison Sha Primarily focuses on the Mindset of Independance and Self Sufficency and Assisting Those In Need' (But without drawing too much attention to one's self) Provided that they also place their focuses on Telekinesis and other Telekinetic capabilities in hopes to reach the Mental perfection and have done so in many cases previously stated and one's not seen yet' but notable cases' Yanibar and The Great Jedi Perge.

When the 1 Force organization that targeted the aspect of mental abilities surpass the opposing order aspect of spiritual capabilities what does that naturally mean? the order that targeted mental aspects of abilities (Zeison Sha) are more powerful then the opposing order that targeted spiritual capabilities (Jedi) due to their mental abilities surpassing what the opposing order were capable of. you dont need to be the most powerful in all areas overall to be more powerful' as demonstrated in the example earlier.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Pwned
......

No. Most of them would not have the raw power to pull down a cruiser, it would deplete their force reserves too quickly. Or are they all as strong as freaking Starkiller?

Where did you even get the thing about Hord? I have never heard that.

If I am so dumb as to not understand metaphors and allegories, dumb them down. But considering how you HAVEN'T posted evidence, even in a metaphor or allegory, means that now you are just making personal attacks so you can hide your lack of knowledge.

No, KoToR 2 is not proof enough, as that pertains to that era. Give me a quote that pertains to the other eras, which you in your obviously boundless knowledge can certainly provide. That way you can prove they are the most powerful eve.... Oh wait. Its not raw power. And where did i get the statement about Tulak hord being a Master Of Telekinesis rather then just being The Greatest Lightsaber Master? I got the Statement from Khem Val' Tulak hord's Dashade servant and fellow warrior. Khem Val quoted that Tulak hord would bring down ships the size of the endar spire and larger with ease' Khem Val stating that Tulak Hord was a Master of Telekinesis. Also Telekinesis requires the brain's energy to be used' not requiring raw power or spiritual energy to do so.

In other words the Zeison Sha Warriors would not deplete a vast reserve of their force energy bringing down assault carriers. And no not all Zeison Sha are capable of that Telekinetic feat' The Zeison Sha initiates are not capable of doing the feat previously stated' only the Zeison Sha Warriors and Zeison Sha Elite Warriors are capable of that telekinetic feat. and when it comes not posting evidence and KOTOR 2 not being proof enough for you? then i dont know what else to say. The Zeison Sha were around since 4,000BBY i dont know what else i can dig up thats authorized. Enough evidence has been presented' its just a matter on who will believe it and who wont.

GenomeFrozener

Please provide said quotes.

EDIT: I forogt you never do.

Hmm, at least it's true to a degree. But then again, the one who's saying the quote is a huge Tulak loyalist and thus, could be lying to a degree.

In that case, no one will believe you.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Please provide said quotes. Didnt you read the message thats above your name? the quote is there right after i said' (Where did i get the Statement from) READ what i post next time and you wont miss it.

GenomeFrozener

I asked for quotes and proof, not statements. Which was foolish of me, because you never do.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Please provide said quotes.

EDIT: I forogt you never do.

Hmm, at least it's true to a degree. But then again, the one who's saying the quote is a huge Tulak loyalist and thus, could be lying to a degree. Oh now your saying its true to a DEGREE? w.o.w you just proved what i was saying about you earlier..... pathetic. I do edit my post but you dont read that either.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Please provide said quotes.

EDIT: I forogt you never do.

Hmm, at least it's true to a degree. But then again, the one who's saying the quote is a huge Tulak loyalist and thus, could be lying to a degree.

In that case, no one will believe you. Yep thats your opinion stick with it.

GenomeFrozener

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Oh now your saying its true to a DEGREE? w.o.w you just proved what i was saying about you earlier..... pathetic. I do edit my post but you dont read that either.

It shows that Tulak was a telekinesis master. However, his quoted feat of pulling ships could be biased as the quoter is a fanatic of him. Do you always personally attack those who disagree with you?

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
It shows that Tulak was a telekinesis master. However, his quoted feat of pulling ships could be biased as the quoter is a fanatic of him. Do you always personally attack those who disagree with you? OH now we are dealing with mr COULD-BE now EH? hehehehehehe' and attack? wasnt that what you were doing earlier?

GenomeFrozener

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Now we are dealing with COULD-BE now?

Yes, "could be's" based on actual fact's and proof. Khem Val was no more than former servant of Tulak who idolized him.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Yes, "could be's" based on actual fact's and proof. Khem Val was no more than former servant of Tulak who idolized him. I wonder NOW since we are dealing with mr COULD-BE? what about ms TO A DEGREE? rolling on floor laughing

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
I asked for quotes and proof, not statements. Which was foolish of me, because you never do. The quote has already been provided. what are you goin on about now?

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by GenomeFrozener
Yes, "could be's" based on actual fact's and proof. Khem Val was no more than former servant of Tulak who idolized him. Yes you said COULD-BE because your ACTUAL PROOF and FACTS remains solely on Literacy.

Q99

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
And yet you still dont get it do you? even though i thought i made myself clear the first time. There was NO exact quote from any character in star wars explaining what the zeison sha warriors were capable of. Only the in game description in Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic II The Sith Lords Zeison Sha Warrior armor's description and it reads. The Zeison Sha warriors were unmatched in telekinetic force powers and strong enough to make a physical sheild using the mind' it was described as using the force to wrap around themselfs. (A.K.A sheilds that surrounds the entire surface of the body' NOT using Force walls or force spheres for defense that later get overwhelmed by blaster fire and force attacks) and do you want me to give you the whole description? even though the sentence of note has already been revealed?

Yes, I very much do want the whole description.

It's the basis of all your statements, after all.

Also, 'strong enough to make physical shields using the mind' doesn't mean the shields can't be overwhelmed or it's better than anyone else's physical TK force shields. It just means... they have the ability. That's all.

You've got a little info there, and then you jump strait past what's there into major assumptions.

Unless you can put the whole description and it actually says what you imply, you're out on an unsupported limb/

You ASSUME their abilities far exceed the Jedi's (and yea, their TK may be better because they focus on hit more, but that's not the same as being overall better) which is why you ASSUME there was no casualties, even though nothing said no casualties.

Also, how do you figure people will look stupid? Right now, there is not canon material that supports your assumptions. Even if new material happens to come out, it doesn't change we're making judgement on known information and unless your quote from KotoR II says a lot more than I suspect, that you're going well beyond the quotes.

I very much want to see this KotoR II quote in full! If you do so and it backs your claims, then I'll apologize and admit it.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Yes, I very much do want the whole description.

It's the basis of all your statements, after all.

Also, 'strong enough to make physical shields using the mind' doesn't mean the shields can't be overwhelmed or it's better than anyone else's physical TK force shields. It just means... they have the ability. That's all.

You've got a little info there, and then you jump strait past what's there into major assumptions.

Unless you can put the whole description and it actually says what you imply, you're out on an unsupported limb/

You ASSUME their abilities far exceed the Jedi's (and yea, their TK may be better because they focus on hit more, but that's not the same as being overall better) which is why you ASSUME there was no casualties, even though nothing said no casualties.

Also, how do you figure people will look stupid? Right now, there is not canon material that supports your assumptions. Even if new material happens to come out, it doesn't change we're making judgement on known information and unless your quote from KotoR II says a lot more than I suspect, that you're going well beyond the quotes.

I very much want to see this KotoR II quote in full! If you do so and it backs your claims, then I'll apologize and admit it. Ok it reads. The Zeison Sha were unmatched in Telekinetic Force powers' and powerful combatants. Their fortified garments are somewhat restrictive, but do not interfere with their use of the force. they can be upgraded with some underlays.

The outer rim planet yanibar was home of the Zeison Sha, who developed their force powers as a means of surviving the harsh planet. Zeison Sha Stress independance and survival as well as assistance to those in need.

Thats the whole description even though i already told you the sentence of note has already been revealed.

Q99

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Ok it reads. The Zeison Sha were unmatched in Telekinetic Force powers' and powerful combatants. Their fortified garments are somewhat restrictive, but do not interfere with their use of the force. they can be upgraded with some underlays.

The outer rim planet yanibar was home of the Zeison Sha, who developed their force powers as a means of surviving the harsh planet. Zeison Sha Stress independance and survival as well as assistance to those in need.

Thats the whole description even though i already told you the sentence of note has already been revealed.

Hah, exactly!

None of that says they suffered no casualties during the purge, or that their TK shields can't be breached/are different than Jedi TK shields, or that their overall strength is higher than the Jedi, only that they were powerful combatants with powerful TK.

I'm glad we have this settled.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Hah, exactly!

None of that says they suffered no casualties during the purge, or that their TK shields can't be breached/are different than Jedi TK shields, or that their overall strength is higher than the Jedi, only that they were powerful combatants with powerful TK.

I'm glad we have this settled. No. Its specifically told in the Zeison Sha's history' that the Zeison Sha survived the empire's attempts to kill them' stating that there were no casualties for all ranks in the Zeison Sha. (Zeison Sha Initiate) (Zeison Sha Warrior) (Zeison Sha Elite Warrior) what are you goin on about?

Star Wars Logic

My interent is being shutdown for a week so i wont be able to reply to this thread and others untill i come back.

Lord Lucien

Thank God.

The_Tempest

You're welcome.

Lord Lucien

Why do you never my answer my serious prayers?

Q99

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
No. Its specifically told in the Zeison Sha's history' that the Zeison Sha survived the empire's attempts to kill them' stating that there were no casualties for all ranks in the Zeison Sha. (Zeison Sha Initiate) (Zeison Sha Warrior) (Zeison Sha Elite Warrior) what are you goin on about?

That wasn't in the quote you posted.

If you have information, post the direct quote. That's not in Jedi vs Sith the Essential Guide to the Force or KotoR 2.

KylarWhite

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic

Also i never said their shields were incredible' that part "incredible" is what you added. It was said the Zeison Sha Warriors were masters of telekinetics' being strong enough to make a physical shield that covered the entire outer surface of their body' covering all possible openings in defense that could be exploited' a shield that is indestructible' and later evidenced as a fact when a unidentified jedi gives his description on the Zeison Sha Warrior's shield describing it as using the force to wrap around themselfs. Also the Zeison Sha Warrior's shield is confirmed to be as described previously' in their history it is said that the Zeison Sha Survived the empire's attempts to stamp them out. Or in other words the Zeison Sha survived the empire's attempts to kill them' due to their higher telekinetic defensive capabilities.

But the ability to form that shield isn't even unique to the Zeison Sha. Others on the thread provided evidence of other force users performing the technique. Furthermore, although I'm not sure about the validity, when talking about this shield, which is described as "wrapping the Force around his or her body to resist damage", Wookieepdia also provides a link to just a simple force barrier.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
You saying im rattling off random claims with no EVIDENCE? thats coming from a person who will wait for the evidence to present itself in literacy in order to make it out as a factual confirmation. Rather then investigate what's been said and shown as evidence giving a independant observation and later discovering whether it's true or not putting all the pieces of the puzzle together solely using one's perception' dont make me laugh laughing

.

Well, yeah. I don't know about you, but I like to see evidence presented in literature or any other medium first, before I start making claims. Shouldn't everyone?

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic

only quote that i mentioned that wasnt said exactly conserning the Zeison Sha was the one made by Bodo Baas. even though i incorrectly put Bodo's statement in' the meaning to what both I and Bodo baas made was of the same meaning' (But said indirectly) the Zeison Sha are Masters of Telekinesis and Telekinetic powers and their capabilities in this area surpass those of most jedi in history.

Once again, the quote says "many jedi", and never does it mention "in history." For the Zeison Sha to be superior to many jedi shouldn't really be too much of a surprise. They focus primarily in telekinesis, so it should be expected. In any case, Bodo Baas made the statement some 560 years before the Clone Wars, in which the Jedi Order became much more combat focused. It isn't a stretch to suggest many jedi developed this particular talent during the course of the Clone Wars.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
And when it comes to the Zeison Sha being the Most powerful Order Of Light Side Force Sensitives this is a fact. i'll Sight some specific examples using the 3 Force organizations that target 1 aspect of abilities' such as. The Jedi. The Matukai. The Zeison Sha.

The Jedi focuses primarily on reaching true Understanding of the Force as well as achieving the spiritual perfection while unlocking as many unique spiritual capabilities in the process while creating a following for the younger members of their order to do so in the future. while some of their order lack that mindset the jedi teach in a multitude of different areas to match the criteria of what their students hope to achieve.

The Zeison Sha Primarily focuses on the Mindset of Independance and Self Sufficency and Assisting Those In Need' (But without drawing too much attention to one's self) Provided that they also place their focuses on Telekinesis and other Telekinetic capabilities in hopes to reach the Mental perfection and have done so in many cases previously stated and one's not seen yet' but notable cases' Yanibar and The Great Jedi Perge.

Yes, the Jedi have a much broader focus regarding aspects of the force. Thus, its understandable that the Zeison Sha, focusing primarily in the area of telekinesis, will better perform with the force regarding telekinesis than the Jedi. The Jedi are seen to be strong with nigh all areas of the force, not just one, meaning they are as a result a more powerful order than the Zeison Sha. For you to successfully claim and prove the Zeison Sha are however the strongest order, you need to provide evidence of their capabilities in other aspects of the force, and powerful capabilities at that.

As well, the Jedi do not focus single-mindedly on spiritual aspects, like the Zeison Sha do telekinesis and similar mental capabilities. As I've said, they have a much broader focus.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
When the 1 Force organization that targeted the aspect of mental abilities surpass the opposing order aspect of spiritual capabilities what does that naturally mean? the order that targeted mental aspects of abilities (Zeison Sha) are more powerful then the opposing order that targeted spiritual capabilities (Jedi) due to their mental abilities surpassing what the opposing order were capable of. you dont need to be the most powerful in all areas overall to be more powerful' as demonstrated in the example earlier.

Yeah, no, whatever. I've been staring at this last part of your post for the last 15-20 minutes, and I'm still trying to understand just what on Earth you're trying to say. You don't show any evidence to support your claim that the the mental capabilities of the Zeison Sha surpass the spiritual capabilities of the Jedi, nor do you even explain how they surpass the Jedi.

In any case, please, when you come back with your internet fixed, also come back with some improved grammar, just so I can better understand your arguments.

Dolos

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
The most powerful order of Force Sensitives are the Zeison Sha. The Zeison Sha were a order of Force Sensitives that lived on the planet Yannibar or more commonly known as Zeison Sha stress. at some point in their history they started Developing Telekinetic powers and begin to become force Sensitive as a means of Surviving the harsh conditions and Ecosystem of the planet Yannibar even Becoming more Stronger and Resilient physically compared to most Sentients. the Zeison Sha's beliefs as a order are Independance and Self Sufficency as well as Assisting Those In Need. but the Jedi order looked at them as guardians of the public. and even stated by Jedi Master Vodo Baas, The Zeison Sha's Telekinetic abilitys surpass most of our Jedi Knight's Force abilitys. The Zeison Sha had 2 ranks within their Order. Zeison Sha Initiate (Similar to Jedi Knight) and Zeison Sha Warrior (Similar to Jedi Master)

No, the Jedi order produced far more powerful Force Wielders with more extensive training in all areas based on aptitude.

And the Jedi recruited Force Sensitives from all over the galaxy. Most far more sensitive than you might think, all put together the order had far more Force sensitivity and talent than one single species.

Minus the family on Mortis.

Arhael

Could Zeison Sha move at least, well, a semi-big starship? Not even talking about Star Destroyers...

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
That wasn't in the quote you posted.

If you have information, post the direct quote. That's not in Jedi vs Sith the Essential Guide to the Force or KotoR 2. Of course it wasnt in the quote i posted previously conserning the Zeison sha warrior armor description. it was on wookieepedia in the accumulated history, and it specifically said, that the Zeison Sha SURVIVED the empire's attempts to stamp them out. (The Zeison Sha all together survived the same attempted massacre that put the Jedi into near extinction) meaning no casualties were suffered for any of the ranks in the Zeison Sha, (Zeison Sha initiate) (Zeison Sha warrior) (Zeison Sha Elite warrior) it can't be anymore clear then that. And some of the Zeison Sha initiates left yannibar for fear of a repeat incident that might cause more loved ones to die.

The Zeison Sha warrior armor isnt the only thing i read about.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by KylarWhite
But the ability to form that shield isn't even unique to the Zeison Sha. Others on the thread provided evidence of other force users performing the technique. Furthermore, although I'm not sure about the validity, when talking about this shield, which is described as "wrapping the Force around his or her body to resist damage", Wookieepdia also provides a link to just a simple force barrier.

Well, yeah. I don't know about you, but I like to see evidence presented in literature or any other medium first, before I start making claims. Shouldn't everyone?

Once again, the quote says "many jedi", and never does it mention "in history." For the Zeison Sha to be superior to many jedi shouldn't really be too much of a surprise. They focus primarily in telekinesis, so it should be expected. In any case, Bodo Baas made the statement some 560 years before the Clone Wars, in which the Jedi Order became much more combat focused. It isn't a stretch to suggest many jedi developed this particular talent during the course of the Clone Wars.

Yes, the Jedi have a much broader focus regarding aspects of the force. Thus, its understandable that the Zeison Sha, focusing primarily in the area of telekinesis, will better perform with the force regarding telekinesis than the Jedi. The Jedi are seen to be strong with nigh all areas of the force, not just one, meaning they are as a result a more powerful order than the Zeison Sha. For you to successfully claim and prove the Zeison Sha are however the strongest order, you need to provide evidence of their capabilities in other aspects of the force, and powerful capabilities at that.

As well, the Jedi do not focus single-mindedly on spiritual aspects, like the Zeison Sha do telekinesis and similar mental capabilities. As I've said, they have a much broader focus.

Yeah, no, whatever. I've been staring at this last part of your post for the last 15-20 minutes, and I'm still trying to understand just what on Earth you're trying to say. You don't show any evidence to support your claim that the the mental capabilities of the Zeison Sha surpass the spiritual capabilities of the Jedi, nor do you even explain how they surpass the Jedi.

In any case, please, when you come back with your internet fixed, also come back with some improved grammar, just so I can better understand your arguments. Lets see smile

. The force (barrier) that was linked in the description of the Zeison Sha's history was explaining what the basic force (shield) is in order to prevent confusion and for enlightenment for those who don't know. and it also showed which notable jedi and sith were capable of using it. but it didnt include the Zeison Sha order among the affiliations even though that the Zeison Sha's biography is what lead to the link. It meant that they didnt channel the spirit to use ordinary force barriers like the notables and affiliations that had been listed. Instead they used the force to channel the mind discovering more powerful offensives & defensives. Such as the Telekinetic outer laired shields that the Zeison Sha warriors so often used for Survival. (Defensive) And also the average Zeison Sha warrior would use the mind to crush the opposition's body with minimum effort. (Offensive)

Maybe i didnt make myself clear the first time, i said. The Zeison Sha were Masters of Telekinetic force powers, force powers that require the usage of the brain for offensive and defensive purposes. not just for levitating and throwing objects (Telekinesis). The Jedi more commonly channel the spirit for such purposes, which is why it listed all the notable jedi and sith affiliations in the (force barrier) article of wookieepedia and not the Zeison Sha.

Once again the quote "many jedi" was reffering to the force orders in comparison. The jedi viewed the zeison sha's telekinetic abilities superior to those of many jedi. When you put a abilities comparison between orders, a character stating that the opposing order's telekinetic ability is superior to those of many jedi, that counts the Jedi in the Past and in the present. which in other words "Many Jedi" is most Jedi since the Zeison Sha were masters in that skill and later evidenced by the jedi order, also the order looked at them as superior to those of many jedi seen previously and presently (but not directly said). few jedi and sith have mastered telekinesis (the 1st stage of Telekinetics) the notables i can think of at the moment. (Yoda) (Tulak hord) (Trenbrae) there arent many jedi masters that mastered telekinesis to the level of the Zeison Sha. Zeison sha are superior telekineticly to 91% of the jedi and they are telekineticly superior to 87% of the sith.

The jedi are evidenced to be better in channeling the spirit with help of the force and being witnessed in history as very powerful combatants in Lightsaber combat. Versatility is the jedi's key to victory, without it they cannot maintain their order's stability, the stability of the republic and they would ultimately stand no chance against the sith all together. (in other words the jedi are the best balance but not the most powerful Light Side Order)

What is so hard to understand about my previous message that had you stuck on it for 15 minutes? is your mindset based so solely on literacy that you purposely cloud your own mind due to the opposition contradicting your highly opinionated choice, keeping a arguement up while using provocative insults? or are you just an idiot? wait dont answer that.

I have explained why the Zeison Sha surpassed the jedi reasons why? The average Zeison Sha warriors are so powerful in telekinesis that they can use their mind to crush their opposition's body, and pull down assault carriers and assault ships with minimum effort. provided that they can use their mind to make a indestructible telekinetic shield that dosen't deplete no matter how many blaster shots hit it. (Evidenced during the great jedi perge) and since you say otherwise, thats your opinion. We can keep arguing about this untill you lose interest, which you most likely have or will.

And yet the Zeison Sha warrior is unmatched in Telekinetic force powers, Zeison Sha Elite Warrior is unparalleled in Telekinetic force powers. Very similar to a Jal Shey Mentor being unparalleled in intellect.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Arhael
Could Zeison Sha move at least, well, a semi-big starship? Not even talking about Star Destroyers... Yes a Zeison Sha Warrior could do the task.

Q99

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Of course it wasnt in the quote i posted previously conserning the Zeison sha warrior armor description.

Then post quotes to back your stuff up.

Which in no way means they took no casualties.

You just assumed that based on nothing, Wookiepedia doesn't say zero casualties.

Remember, the Jedi Order has survived multiple purges. Even when the purges take out well over half of all Jedi, the Jedi are said to have survived.

If you disagree, then provide a quote.

It doesn't say zero casualties at any point. The order survived, nothing about no casualties.

Not only is it not a 'can't be any more clear' situation, it doesn't even say that at all.

If you disagree, then provide a quote. If you cannot do so, withdraw your argument.

Note, nothing says the Jedi don't use telekinesis in their barrier.

Provide a quote that they do things differently than the Jedi.
You made yourself very clear that you think they do. You've yet to provide a quote to back this up.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99

Then post quotes to back your stuff up.

Which in no way means they took no casualties.

You just assumed that based on nothing, Wookiepedia doesn't say zero casualties.

Remember, the Jedi Order has survived multiple purges. Even when the purges take out well over half of all Jedi, the Jedi are said to have survived.

If you disagree, then provide a quote.

It doesn't say zero casualties at any point. The order survived, nothing about no casualties.

Not only is it not a 'can't be any more clear' situation, it doesn't even say that at all.

If you disagree, then provide a quote. If you cannot do so, withdraw your argument.

Note, nothing says the Jedi don't use telekinesis in their barrier.

Provide a quote that they do things differently than the Jedi.
You made yourself very clear that you think they do. You've yet to provide a quote to back this up. How many times are you going to repeat the same thing? and how many times do i have to repeat the same thing? the Matukai, during the great jedi perge it said that the Matukai was another force order to feel the emperor's wrath but ultimately survived, meaning that most of them died (when it was said that they suffered the emperor's wrath)

Same thing with the jedi. But for the Zeison Sha it was said that they survived the empire's attempts to stamp them out. ( To put it in the clearest way, The Zeison sha survived the empire's attampts to STAMP THEM OUT. THEY SURVIVED THE EMPIRE'S ATTEMPTS TO KILL THEM, The empire attempted to kill them like what they did to the matukai and jedi orders but failed) in other words the Zeison Sha order didnt feel the emperor's wrath, which means they that didn't suffer casualties, and most of their initiates left the planet to keep it that way.

You just don't want to believe that there are other major force organizations that are high in aspects of power besides the Jedi and Sith, since you probably grew up loving the idea of the Jedi and their order from what you seen in the films made back then. Get over it george lucas dosen't care about Star Wars anymore he finished what vision he wanted to achieve and sold the rights to the series as a result. Since Disney is in charge they are going to take the focus off of the jedi and on to other things and (probably) other force orders, and if J.D wiker and Rodney Thompson have more of a say so in the Star Wars Universe then what they previously had, "your" going to see alot more of Both the Matukai and the Zeison Sha in either the future films TV show or comic books. otherwise you can keep arguing with me. Its a waste of time but good practice for my typing cool

To make it simple it's not going to literally say everything about what i say conserning the Zeison Sha, if you are looking for that type of simple minded understanding you might as well go somewhere else.

-kV-

The Jedi Order produced Revan, Satele Shan, Hero of Tython, Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Luke Skywalker, Kyle Katarn, and Kyp Durron to name a few.

Who did the Zeison Sha produce?

Arhael

NJO produced Dorsk 82 who by channeling power from peers and pushing himself far beyond limits to the point that he simply burned out pushed 14 Star Destroyers out of Yavin system. In this case even Marek pales in comparison.

Lord Lucien

That was Dorsk 81. 82 didn't do shit.

Q99

Nat Skywalker and T'ra Saa channeled the entire output of an exploding capital ship reactor into a beam of destruction to pierce through an enemy fleet.

Probably until you provide quotes/proof, which you have failed to do.

You're going beyond the text you've provided.

Yea, and there were only 50-60 Matukai to begin with, smaller than the ZS, and they didn't hide out on a tough planet out in wild space, they were nomads who traveled through Republic/Empire space.

If you say the Zeison Sha are stronger than the Matukai, sure. But the Matukai are much smaller and weaker than the Jedi order to begin with.

It never said they didn't suffer casualties. You are taking a massive, unsupported leap from "they survived" to "every last one of them survived."

Nothing said their casualties were light or none. The Matukai had a few survive, out of 50-60, so, what, 95%+ casualties? That's really heavy. It's a miracle they survived despite that.

The Zeison Sha are more numerous to begin with. They could've had dozens of casualties, say, 10-30% casualties. That'd do far better than the Matukai, hence the difference in description, but still, nothing said no casualties. If there was no casualties, it'd probably be mentioned, but it didn't.

There's a reason their survival is described as 'enduring' the Imperial occupation and 'surviving' it, rather than 'fighting off with no casualties.

Wookiepedia also said they survived in large part because they avoided Vader and his Jedi Hunters:

"They survived attempts during the Great Jedi Purge to stamp them out, avoiding Darth Vader and other Jedi hunters. "

I.e. they didn't face the big guns in the purge like the Jedi did, or the entire Clone Army. They weren't the priority targets.

Also of note, despite actively resisting, they didn't force the Empire off their sole planet. They survived and outlasted, they didn't beat all comers.

"Those Zeison Sha who left Yanibar after it gained access to interstellar travel did so incognito for fear of the Jedi, and later Imperial Jedi hunters. The port and outpost remained intact as late as the Galactic Civil War, and the Empire positioned troops on Yanibar, including speeder bikes and scout troopers. This Imperial presence was resisted by the Zeison Sha. The colonists on Yanibar and their Zeison Sha protectors endured the Galactic Civil War." -Article on Yanibar

Incorrect. I want proof. A lot of the stuff you're saying about their abilities being better or different than Jedi with the same abilities doesn't seem to come from anywhere.

Note I've also never said they aren't very strong in telekinesis. I'm just noting that they aren't said to work any different than other force user's TK, just that they focus on training it more.

And nothing said their specialization in TK makes them overall more powerful either, that's also coming from you, and not any quote.

Arhael

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
That was Dorsk 81. 82 didn't do
shit.
Oops. smile

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Nat Skywalker and T'ra Saa channeled the entire output of an exploding capital ship reactor into a beam of destruction to pierce through an enemy fleet.

Probably until you provide quotes/proof, which you have failed to do.

You're going beyond the text you've provided.

Yea, and there were only 50-60 Matukai to begin with, smaller than the ZS, and they didn't hide out on a tough planet out in wild space, they were nomads who traveled through Republic/Empire space.

If you say the Zeison Sha are stronger than the Matukai, sure. But the Matukai are much smaller and weaker than the Jedi order to begin with.

It never said they didn't suffer casualties. You are taking a massive, unsupported leap from "they survived" to "every last one of them survived."

Nothing said their casualties were light or none. The Matukai had a few survive, out of 50-60, so, what, 95%+ casualties? That's really heavy. It's a miracle they survived despite that.

The Zeison Sha are more numerous to begin with. They could've had dozens of casualties, say, 10-30% casualties. That'd do far better than the Matukai, hence the difference in description, but still, nothing said no casualties. If there was no casualties, it'd probably be mentioned, but it didn't.

There's a reason their survival is described as 'enduring' the Imperial occupation and 'surviving' it, rather than 'fighting off with no casualties.

Wookiepedia also said they survived in large part because they avoided Vader and his Jedi Hunters:

"They survived attempts during the Great Jedi Purge to stamp them out, avoiding Darth Vader and other Jedi hunters. "

I.e. they didn't face the big guns in the purge like the Jedi did, or the entire Clone Army. They weren't the priority targets.

Also of note, despite actively resisting, they didn't force the Empire off their sole planet. They survived and outlasted, they didn't beat all comers.

"Those Zeison Sha who left Yanibar after it gained access to interstellar travel did so incognito for fear of the Jedi, and later Imperial Jedi hunters. The port and outpost remained intact as late as the Galactic Civil War, and the Empire positioned troops on Yanibar, including speeder bikes and scout troopers. This Imperial presence was resisted by the Zeison Sha. The colonists on Yanibar and their Zeison Sha protectors endured the Galactic Civil War." -Article on Yanibar

Incorrect. I want proof. A lot of the stuff you're saying about their abilities being better or different than Jedi with the same abilities doesn't seem to come from anywhere.

Note I've also never said they aren't very strong in telekinesis. I'm just noting that they aren't said to work any different than other force user's TK, just that they focus on training it more.

And nothing said their specialization in TK makes them overall more powerful either, that's also coming from you, and not any quote. Everything i have said is proof conserning the Zeison Sha's telekinetic abilities and superiority compared to the Jedi.

And here's where you contradicted yourself for the 5th time. Who said that the Zeison Sha were more in number then the Matukai? because it wasn't specifically said that the Zeison Sha were more or alot more larger in number then the Matukai for you to even make that statement and yet you are going against me telling me how i should always give literate quotes and other evidence when you aren't even following your the example you attempted to set to me.

And No the Zeison Sha Survived because they resisted the imperial occupation. meaning that they fought off and killed the imperial troops that were sent in attempt to subjugate the Zeison Sha for Imperial persecution or perge. even though with those small victories it still wasn't enough to forcefully drive the empire off their planet. The empire eventually left the planet, when they seen no point in sending more troops to their death in attempt to perge and subject imperial persecution on a small ancient force organization. (Basically it was a holdout situation conserning the Zeison Sha's war on Yanibar) Every ship and every trooper that went near their caves and starport went down accordingly, so in other words yes they did endure imperial control and fought them off strategically and as a result they all Survived.

Like i said before no 1 book will EVER say everything literaly conserning the Zeison Sha as i have. Thats the EVIDENCE you wanted for the longest and most likely will never get.

Yes and there's a reason why it also said. That after the Imperial fleets left Yanibar, they searched of other force using sects in hopes to establish imperial persecution. (Due to the Zeison Sha not being subjectible for Imperial persecution) wookieepedia also meant After the empire's influence left Yanibar. The Zeison Sha initiates who left yanibar, did so for fear of their families being killed by imperial jedi hunters and fearing the hunters themselfs and fearing the wrath Darth Vader. the majority of Zeison Sha Warriors and the elite warriors stayed on Yanibar and continued to recruit and train new other initiates in the Sha Kalan.

The entire clone army didn't attack any single jedi temple. They scattered their forces and effectively killed 97% of the Jedi on all of their worlds in different ways. A imperial jedi perge is exactly what it is. A imperial PERGE of any force order. The Zeison Sha and most other force orders faced the very same threat that the jedi stood against, 1 that the empire posed, which includes the threats of Speeder bikes assault carriers & assault ships and tanks. but the Zeison Sha fought the empire off strategically on their own territories and as a result they all survived.

All Zeison Sha ranks were each known for things individually. the Zeison Sha Initiates were known for their resourcefulness and quick thinking even in worse case scenarios and bad situations. The Zeison Sha Warriors were known to be powerful combatants and unmatched in telekinetic powers. And the few Zeison Sha Elite Warriors were known to be unparalleled in telekinetic force powers & telekinesis and were prime examples to the zeison sha warriors. they all came together and fought off the empire and all survived as the finale result.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by -kV-
The Jedi Order produced Revan, Satele Shan, Hero of Tython, Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Luke Skywalker, Kyle Katarn, and Kyp Durron to name a few.

Who did the Zeison Sha produce? While that is true. who the Zeison Sha produced notably is unknown for the time being. but they have produced few Zeison Sha Elite warriors. Elite Warriors that are unparalleled in Telekinesis and Telekinetic force powers and stand as a prime example to the Zeison Sha Warriors. It may not be much of a answer for right now. But that is the only Answer that can be given at this time.

Lord Lucien

What is your fetish with them?

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
What is your fetish with them? I don't have a fetish with them. they are the most powerful light side order but are balanced off being small in number. what is your fetish with the jedi & sith?

-kV-

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
While that is true. who the Zeison Sha produced notably is unknown for the time being. but they have produced few Zeison Sha Elite warriors. Elite Warriors that are unparalleled in Telekinesis and Telekinetic force powers and stand as a prime example to the Zeison Sha Warriors. It may not be much of a answer for right now. But that is the only Answer that can be given at this time.

Which more or less translates to you having no answer..

* Zeison Sha have not produced anybody notable, much less an entire group of individuals.
* Simply put, the Jedi Order produced the most powerful Light Side Force sensitives in the entire history of the Universe. The upper echelon of the Jedi Order would wipe the floor out of these "Elite Warriors."

I'll give it to you that the Zeison Sha are undoubtedly a force to be reckoned with, but to claim that they are the most powerful Light Side of the Force order, when they haven't produced anybody of the caliber of the individuals I have mentioned earlier, is a testament to their inferiority to the Jedi.

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
I don't have a fetish with them. they are the most powerful light side order but are balanced off being small in number. what is your fetish with the jedi & sith? The f*ck is a Sith?

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by -kV-
Which more or less translates to you having no answer..

* Zeison Sha have not produced anybody notable, much less an entire group of individuals.
* Simply put, the Jedi Order produced the most powerful Light Side Force sensitives in the entire history of the Universe. The upper echelon of the Jedi Order would wipe the floor out of these "Elite Warriors."

I'll give it to you that the Zeison Sha are undoubtedly a force to be reckoned with, but to claim that they are the most powerful Light Side of the Force order, when they haven't produced anybody of the caliber of the individuals I have mentioned earlier, is a testament to their inferiority to the Jedi. You are right about me having no answer, because there haven't been any notables shown to answer your question. But i said the Zeison Sha are the most powerful order of Light Side Force Sensitives for a reason. The Force works in all aspects of capabilities and not just what the jedi persevere in (The Spiritual). The Jedi have produced the Most powerful Spiritual users through the force. The Zeison Sha have produced the Most powerful Telekinetic users through the force. And the Matukai have produced the Most powerful physical beings through the force.

The average Zeison sha warriors already had surpassed most Sith lords and Jedi masters on average in offensive & defensive capabilities using the mind. the Zeison Sha warriors were already capable of pulling down ships and lifting the most heavy of objects with minimum effort. The Zeison Sha warrior's telekinetic skill to bring down ships was already proven by Khem Val. He quoted that Tulak hord would bring ships the size of the endar spire with ease, stating that he was a master of Telekinesis. And the Average Zeison Sha warriors were already known masters in telekinesis. (The 1st stage of using the mind) And the average Zeison Sha warriors were capable of creating a indestructible telekinetic shield, one that surrounded the entire outer surface of the body without leaving any opening in defense to exploit. Similar to the quality of armor but superior. A feat proven during the Great Jedi perge when it was said that the Zeison Sha survived the empire's attempts to stamp them out. (meaning they survived what the jedi council could not in Star Wars Episode III revenge of the Sith) Provided with the fact that the Zeison Sha were at the technological disadvantage during the war. (I will say this again, the Zeison Sha do NOT use the Force barriers and force spheres that the Notable Jedi & Sith have been using, if so then they would have been listed in the force order affiliations that use the basic technique. But with no surprise they weren't listed)

And you say that the Jedi could kill the Zeison Sha's Elite Warriors? ha! right, The average Zeison Sha warrior surpasses most jedi alone, being unmatched in telekinetic force powers. And the Zeison Sha Elite Warriors were unparalleled in Telekinesis & Telekinetic force powers, they stood as prime examples to the already unmatched Zeison Sha warriors. No matter what jedi and their power they would all fall the same in a one on one getting their body's crushed by the mind of a Zeison Sha elite Warrior. that would include. (Luke Skywalker) (Obi Wan Kenobi) (General Hoth) (the Hero of Tython) (Nomi Sunrider) (Arca Jeth) (Sylvar) or even Revan.

There was a reason why Darth Traya said. (There are techniques within the force against which there is NO defense) The Zeison Sha elite warriors are apart of that reason telekineticly. Which is why they haven't had any notables shown for now.

Q99

Except you're working backwards. You're assuming they're the most powerful, then giving them powers based on that assumption.

You aren't looking at what they're actually said to do (much less than you give them credit for) and then judging their power based on that.

Except the Jedi sometimes heavily train in the physical side too. Cade Skywalker doesn't particular care about the spiritual side, he'll just toss spaceships at you.

And plenty of Sith even more-so.

Or in other words, this is complete BS on your part. You're making up an unstated weakness of the Jedi because you want the ZS to be stronger. You can't just make up weaknesses to get the answer you want.

Nope, they may on average has better, but nothing says the *most* powerful telekinetic is a ZS.

Nope, nothing says that either.

Training in something and focusing on it does not mean others are bad, or that members of other orders won't also focus on it.

You're just assuming the fact that they specialize means they're the best, when the feats show Jedi and Sith do the same things, because individual Jedi and Sith and sub-groups of them do specialize as well.

Nothing says that either. It was said their ability surpasses that of 'many' Jedi. Meaning, not all Jedi, meaning other Jedi surpass them. 'Many Jedi' to 'Most Masters' is a leap you're making unsupported without evidence. Being stronger in an area than many knights doesn't make one stronger than most masters, let alone Sith Lords.

You aren't allowed to just make stuff up. It's dishonest.

What are you talking about? Wookiepedia lists them as users of the telekinetic shield technique.

Elite Jedi certainly could.

The average Zeison Sha surpasses most Jedi in telekinesis, while being weaker in areas like precognition and melee.

It is specifically noted that the ZS are more suited for attack than defense; i.e. their defense is weak.

Nope! Precisely nothing says this.

Stop making stuff up, lies are unconvincing.

Jinsoku Takai

Star Wars Logic is DEFINITELY one and the same as HWKA.

TheOneOfMortis

Perhaps you should stop with the accusations and theories and isntead brush up on your MMA knowledge noob because you egt you ass kicked the last time you tried to debate it. BamBamBamBam BoS!

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Except you're working backwards. You're assuming they're the most powerful, then giving them powers based on that assumption.

You aren't looking at what they're actually said to do (much less than you give them credit for) and then judging their power based on that.

Except the Jedi sometimes heavily train in the physical side too. Cade Skywalker doesn't particular care about the spiritual side, he'll just toss spaceships at you.

And plenty of Sith even more-so.

Or in other words, this is complete BS on your part. You're making up an unstated weakness of the Jedi because you want the ZS to be stronger. You can't just make up weaknesses to get the answer you want.

Nope, they may on average has better, but nothing says the *most* powerful telekinetic is a ZS.

Nope, nothing says that either.

Training in something and focusing on it does not mean others are bad, or that members of other orders won't also focus on it.

You're just assuming the fact that they specialize means they're the best, when the feats show Jedi and Sith do the same things, because individual Jedi and Sith and sub-groups of them do specialize as well.

Nothing says that either. It was said their ability surpasses that of 'many' Jedi. Meaning, not all Jedi, meaning other Jedi surpass them. 'Many Jedi' to 'Most Masters' is a leap you're making unsupported without evidence. Being stronger in an area than many knights doesn't make one stronger than most masters, let alone Sith Lords.

You aren't allowed to just make stuff up. It's dishonest.

What are you talking about? Wookiepedia lists them as users of the telekinetic shield technique.

Elite Jedi certainly could.

The average Zeison Sha surpasses most Jedi in telekinesis, while being weaker in areas like precognition and melee.

It is specifically noted that the ZS are more suited for attack than defense; i.e. their defense is weak.

Nope! Precisely nothing says this.

Stop making stuff up, lies are unconvincing. there are no assumptions conserning the Zeison Sha nor the Matukai. I go by facts & common sense, and both facts & common sense dictates that the Zeison Sha are the most powerful force order in Telekinesis and other telekinetic force powers (The average Zeison Sha warriors were already capable of lifting up & destroying the most heavy of objects with minimum effort using telekinesis, provided that the zeison sha warrior rank were capable of pulling down ships in all sizes on average with minimum effort) also being known as survivalist, (When you have a order that are known for their survival skills that means they are known for rarely suffering casualties) before during and after war times, hence the word SURVIVAL. You say a jedi knight could kill a zeison sha elite warrior? (Now that right there is a contradictive/biased statement, because a Zeison Sha elite warrior is unparalelled in telekinesis and other telekinetic force powers basically the zeison sha elite warriors have no milestone nor another match in telekinetic powers against any other order outside of their's). And saying that a jedi knight A.K.A jedi elite could kill a zeison sha elite warrior is purely opinionated. With all the reason said that means even though they are the most powerful order they still are balanced off from the jedi due to some handicaps, 1 of them being technologically disadvantaged provided with being low in number to counterbalance them from the main orders (due to the harsh conditions of their planet)

The jedi are NOT superior nor focuses on the physical body (a lightsaber is not a true measure of physical strength since its a weapon that cuts through most known alloys surfaces and ship plating with minimum effort) Matukai are the most powerful order physically, and there 2 reasons out of 3 that backs that up. Reason number 1 is they are known as the galaxys best martial artists. Reason number 2 is when a Matukai fought a jedi gave his observation, he described a Matukai adept's fighting skills as a whirlwind of blades (meaning that their physical attacks were too fast for the eye to keep track of while their strength were just as efficient as their speed). Even a notable jedi (Theme Cerulian) gave his observation conserning a Matukai Adept based from his experience, he said (I fought a Matukai once NEVER AGAIN!) and he even put his statement in The Jedi Path A manual for students of the force. To avoid future students going through the same thing he did.

As i already told you im not making up anything. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LITERALLY FIND WORD FOR WORD, EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID CONSERNING THE 2 ORDERS. If you can't understand that yet then im afraid you conserning this supposed debate are lost.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Except you're working backwards. You're assuming they're the most powerful, then giving them powers based on that assumption.

You aren't looking at what they're actually said to do (much less than you give them credit for) and then judging their power based on that.

Except the Jedi sometimes heavily train in the physical side too. Cade Skywalker doesn't particular care about the spiritual side, he'll just toss spaceships at you.

And plenty of Sith even more-so.

Or in other words, this is complete BS on your part. You're making up an unstated weakness of the Jedi because you want the ZS to be stronger. You can't just make up weaknesses to get the answer you want.

Nope, they may on average has better, but nothing says the *most* powerful telekinetic is a ZS.

Nope, nothing says that either.

Training in something and focusing on it does not mean others are bad, or that members of other orders won't also focus on it.

You're just assuming the fact that they specialize means they're the best, when the feats show Jedi and Sith do the same things, because individual Jedi and Sith and sub-groups of them do specialize as well.

Nothing says that either. It was said their ability surpasses that of 'many' Jedi. Meaning, not all Jedi, meaning other Jedi surpass them. 'Many Jedi' to 'Most Masters' is a leap you're making unsupported without evidence. Being stronger in an area than many knights doesn't make one stronger than most masters, let alone Sith Lords.

You aren't allowed to just make stuff up. It's dishonest.

What are you talking about? Wookiepedia lists them as users of the telekinetic shield technique.

Elite Jedi certainly could.

The average Zeison Sha surpasses most Jedi in telekinesis, while being weaker in areas like precognition and melee.

It is specifically noted that the ZS are more suited for attack than defense; i.e. their defense is weak.

Nope! Precisely nothing says this.

Stop making stuff up, lies are unconvincing. Yes Bodo Baas gave his observation conserning the unidentified zeison sha ranks sparring against each other in a test of demonstration, saying that they leaned in for attack more then defense. He said that because their telekinetic shields were unlike the force barriers that many powerful force sensitives used. Since a force barrier requires you to halt your offense to manage the barrier while recieving a energy depletion, and 1 that doubles when attacks begin to mount up against it. Thus bodo baas said that the zeison sha leaned in for attack more then defense. (it dosen't in any way mean that the zeison sha's defenses were weak or weaker, thats a big misconception on your part)

And No the Zeison Sha were not listed on the force order affiliations that use force barriers on wookieepedia. Only the linked word shield in the Zeison Sha's history is what lead to the force barrier article in wookieepedia explaining what a force barrier is aside from a shield due to the similarities, and even then they still weren't listed alongside the orders that used the basic technique. Unless you edited the force barrier article just to futher prove your point. Just like you did the zeison sha article but the changed were removed.

Another thing is who said the Matukai order were weaker then the jedi to begin with? thats another opinion on your part with no evidence to back it up, aside from them being low in number.

Q99

Someone says they're more suited for attack than defense and you say that doesn't prove anything. Riiight.

It certainly doesn't support your idea that their defenses are stronger. Nothing does.

See, you're working backwards without burden of proof again. You assume everyone's stronger than the Jedi without requiring them to do anything.

The Jedi have done more and done bigger than any of these little organizations. They have the biggest feats. They've lifted star destroyers and destroyed droid armies with their bare fists.

Really now? smile

Even if it'd been removed, it'd still be in the logs, so which of the three edits in the last year were mine, and what did it change? smile

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Someone says they're more suited for attack than defense and you say that doesn't prove anything. Riiight.

It certainly doesn't support your idea that their defenses are stronger. Nothing does.

See, you're working backwards without burden of proof again. You assume everyone's stronger than the Jedi without requiring them to do anything.

The Jedi have done more and done bigger than any of these little organizations. They have the biggest feats. They've lifted star destroyers and destroyed droid armies with their bare fists.

Really now? smile

Even if it'd been removed, it'd still be in the logs, so which of the three edits in the last year were mine, and what did it change? smile

The nice thing about Wookkiepedia edit logs is I can point out that they listed the Zesion Sha ability as being the Jedi ability as far back as 2007 (in the common ability section, shield links directly to force barrier).

Also let us not forget I have the book that the Wookkiepedia article is based on, so I know what it actually says and don't have to rely on second-hand info.

You're accusing me of cheating (wrongly) because you don't want to admit you just make stuff up. Bodo Baas stated that they leaned in for attack more then defense, you misunderstood what he ment by that, which is what i verified in my previous message. You really haven't read nor considered anything i have said since i started a thread.

You are using the absence of evidence is the evidence of absense mindset, which is wrong in many cases, i give evidence and places to view them but you choose not to look for yourself, but rather for me to waste my time revealing the evidence so you can contradict it with anything you can work off of, even if its biased. i reveal evidence not through links but rather self explandatory & Literature.

The Jedi have done more notable things and notable things only, don't put aside the other orders due to your favoritism conserning the Jedi.

Q99

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Bodo Baas stated that they leaned in for attack more then defense, you misunderstood what he ment by that,which is what i verified in my previous message.You really haven't read nor considered anything i have said since i started a thread.

Listen, just because you make up an alternate fancy explanation to something, doesn't mean we have a reason to believe it true without proof.

Keep in mind, I have the actual, original articles, so I know your interpretations aren't accurate.

Again, lying is bad. Stop lying and presented made-up theories as evidence.

You even resorted to accusing me of evidence tampering when I posted evidence that you were wrong from Wookiepedia- and you're still wrong on those matters, with links and evidence supporting that you're wrong.

'Self explandatory' is another word for you make stuff up.

Using a lot of words to explain your points is not evidence, it's just you coming up with stuff and expecting me to believe it.

That's not proof.

Links and quotes are proof. 'Self explandatory' is you making up stuff and lying about it.

Why should I trust your word when you've proven yourself to lie and mislead and disregard evidence?

More notable, bigger, more impressive in areas where you claim they're weak. That's not favoritism, that's simply looking at the evidence, and requiring a counter-claim to have evidence backing it up rather than simply you yelling favoritism and lying and assuming it's enough.

You flat-out are making up weaknesses about them that are never mentioned in canon and are contradicted by canon.

You say that they're overspecialized on the spiritual and neglect the physical despite the numerous examples to the contrary.

You assume the ZS are more balanced when all evidence points to them as being the more overly-specialized while the J&S are the unspecialized generalists who study all areas without neglecting the physical or mental.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
Listen, just because you make up an alternate fancy explanation to something, doesn't mean we have a reason to believe it true without proof.

Keep in mind, I have the actual, original articles, so I know your interpretations aren't accurate.

Again, lying is bad. Stop lying and presented made-up theories as evidence.

You even resorted to accusing me of evidence tampering when I posted evidence that you were wrong from Wookiepedia- and you're still wrong on those matters, with links and evidence supporting that you're wrong.

'Self explandatory' is another word for you make stuff up.

Using a lot of words to explain your points is not evidence, it's just you coming up with stuff and expecting me to believe it.

That's not proof.

Links and quotes are proof. 'Self explandatory' is you making up stuff and lying about it.

Why should I trust your word when you've proven yourself to lie and mislead and disregard evidence?

More notable, bigger, more impressive in areas where you claim they're weak. That's not favoritism, that's simply looking at the evidence, and requiring a counter-claim to have evidence backing it up rather than simply you yelling favoritism and lying and assuming it's enough.

You flat-out are making up weaknesses about them that are never mentioned in canon and are contradicted by canon.

You say that they're overspecialized on the spiritual and neglect the physical despite the numerous examples to the contrary.

You assume the ZS are more balanced when all evidence points to them as being the more overly-specialized while the J&S are the unspecialized generalists who study all areas without neglecting the physical or mental. Yes i do give names and refferences as evidence conserning everything i have said and give direction on where to go to get verification, not Links nor articles, because for me its too time consuming to find the exact quote/statement in the Star Wars books when you can just go to wookieepedia and find all the Notes,Refferences, and sources to answer your questions, provided that they give an explianation conserning specific subjects to help give a better enlightenment to those that are searching for the Info.

And here's where you strike out, when did i EVER lie/mislead anyone? No one on here believes anything of what i said and backed up conserning the Zeison Sha. You have contradicted yourself 5 times since i started this thread and you can find those contradictions in my previous post on this thread, and the Greatest Dark Lords Of The Sith thread revealing your hypocrisy.

I didn't make up any weaknesses about the Jedi, the jedi have grown weaker in the physical side ever since they stopped using traditional swords back at the time they were known as the Je,daii order. A lightsaber dosen't take any physical strength, since it cuts through most known alloys, armor, ship-plating, and blast doors with minimum effort, but rather it takes precision and timed execution instead of strength, which is why its looked at as the normally perfect melee weapon.

If a jedi says he will become one with the FORCE, that means he will become one with the spirit, since once a jedi becomes one with the force they can celestially manifest, for both peace & advisor purposes, or for combat. even someone who's not very familiar with the Star Wars world could see that.

And looking at your reply right here futher proves my point, you are doing nothing but stating biased based evidence, i don't have anymore of a reason to reply to you anymore, if i want to be amused i'll relpy back sometime in the near future smile

Star Wars Logic

Lord Lucien

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
because they stayed the same for 3 years You know this how?

Q99

StarWarsLogic- One, that's not how burden of proof works. If you can't post a source or a quote, then you can't proof it, period. Two, I have the original information from the books, I did check the sources and quotes. I have read them. They disagree with you. Wookkiepedia disagrees with you, Jedi vs Sith the Complete Guild to the Force disagrees with you.

They don't include what you're saying. They don't say the ZS are stronger than the Jedi, they don't say the Jedi are weak in the physical aspects, they don't say the ZS took no casualties from the Imperials. None of the sources say any of that.

Or in other words, you're making stuff up, then waving in the direction of the sources and counting on no-one checking.

I checked, and you're wrong, it doesn't say that stuff, I have caught you lying.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
WOW i made a mistake and posted what i previously said on the Matukai thread, but YOU did edit the Zeison Sha article, and the Marka Ragnos article, because they stayed the same for 3 years untill i came on this site posting their names as most powerful in specific areas, while you being the 1st and most keen at contradicting them stands as fact number 1. We can keep going on how many more facts is needed on why you did it smile

?

Uh huh, even though I posted a *five year old* part that shows what I said was true was around well before this discussion.

Look, Edit logs. Since we have started this thread, there have been 3 edits. HotCat, who moved one line of website info and changed no data, KillerRoboLeia3000 who updated the reference links but changed no writing, and Добродетель , who apparently added their Russian name or something. I don't know, I don't read that language.

Then back in 2010, Xicer9 changed 'New Sith War' to 'New Sith Wars' in their history section.

There has not been an actual change in the content since 2009, over 3 years ago, at which point the information that disagrees with you was already there.

So tell me, what precisely did I edit and what happened to this supposed phantom edit, or are you just going to admit that you made up the change and lied about it because you didn't want to admit you misremembered/got things wrong?

And the Marka Ragnos one? Was I even in that thread? I'm not even sure what you're accusing me of there. I think I've just become your boogie man for excusing why you're so very wrong.

Also? Lying and accusing me of cheating just because you don't like admitting you're wrong? Very low.

You are dishonest and a proven lier. You make up stuff and accuse others to try and cover your tracks.

Star Wars Logic

Originally posted by Q99
StarWarsLogic- One, that's not how burden of proof works. If you can't post a source or a quote, then you can't proof it, period. Two, I have the original information from the books, I did check the sources and quotes. I have read them. They disagree with you. Wookkiepedia disagrees with you, Jedi vs Sith the Complete Guild to the Force disagrees with you.

They don't include what you're saying. They don't say the ZS are stronger than the Jedi, they don't say the Jedi are weak in the physical aspects, they don't say the ZS took no casualties from the Imperials. None of the sources say any of that.

Or in other words, you're making stuff up, then waving in the direction of the sources and counting on no-one checking.

I checked, and you're wrong, it doesn't say that stuff, I have caught you lying.

Uh huh, even though I posted a *five year old* part that shows what I said was true was around well before this discussion.

Look, Edit logs. Since we have started this thread, there have been 3 edits. HotCat, who moved one line of website info and changed no data, KillerRoboLeia3000 who updated the reference links but changed no writing, and Добродетель , who apparently added their Russian name or something. I don't know, I don't read that language.

Then back in 2010, Xicer9 changed 'New Sith War' to 'New Sith Wars' in their history section.

There has not been an actual change in the content since 2009, over 3 years ago, at which point the information that disagrees with you was already there.

So tell me, what precisely did I edit and what happened to this supposed phantom edit, or are you just going to admit that you made up the change and lied about it because you didn't want to admit you misremembered/got things wrong?

And the Marka Ragnos one? Was I even in that thread? I'm not even sure what you're accusing me of there. I think I've just become your boogie man for excusing why you're so very wrong.

Also? Lying and accusing me of cheating just because you don't like admitting you're wrong? Very low.

You are dishonest and a proven lier. You make up stuff and accuse others to try and cover your tracks. Well since you don't want evidence then you are no longer a consern of mine. I told before wookieepedia is a easy way to solve the evidence problem you seem to have, im not going to waste time looking for the exact quote/statement on the exact page of a specific Star Wars book when wookieepedia can take you to those things altogether when you type their name in correctly.

And when it comes to the Zeison Sha far surpassing the jedi telekinetically, and the jedi being physically weaker from what they once were before they split from their original order these things are true. Star Wars BOOKS thats created for the purposes of profit & fans are not going to tell you that their iconic orders are more powerful or weaker then other orders, but rather they show more powerful notables from the main branch of orders and let you figure out who's more stronger in comparison to future orders that have been described.

For short, the BOOKS ARE N O T GOING TO TELL YOU DIRECTLY THAT THE JEDI ARE MORE WEAKER THEN THE ZEISON SHA and ITS NOT GOING TO TELL YOU THEIR WEAKNESSES, thats was left for the fans to figure out as they go along. If you still can't understand that yet then it appears that you are lost.

And as for your reasons of editing, what you said & shown changes nothing, your KMC account and your pedia accounts are 2 different things.

Very wrong i am? no you just want me to be, just because i revealed that the Zeison Sha & Matukai orders are more powerful then the jedi in specific areas.