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Surfer
Gladiator
Nova
Quasar
Ronan

Can the team destroy one without bfr?

If any of the team besides Ronan go all out...anyone on the Annihilators can solo.

Ronan can prolly transmute. Maybe.

Given who the Probes fought/owned, I'm honestly shocked at how easily people think they can be beaten.

Originally posted by dmills
Ronan can prolly transmute. Maybe.


Probably could work. The Probes doesn't have fts of resisting transmutation.

Did anybody try?

Originally posted by carver9
Probably could work. The Probes doesn't have fts of resisting transmutation.

Given that the probes fought many people capable of transmutation, I think we can assume that it's a strategy that won't work.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Did anybody try?

Mordru definitely tried.

Lol, yeah. How many did DD and Superman wreck again? Black Lightning with a nuclear tank blow one up as well. What kind of question is can this team beat one without bfr?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Lol, yeah. How many did DD and Superman wreck again? Black Lightning with a nuclear tank blow one up as well. What kind of question is can this team beat one without bfr?

Don't forget about Wonder Woman mother taking two of them out by throwing a space ship to their dome piece.

I guess low feats (or at least what you guys perceive as low feats) are all that count where Probes are concerned, eh?

Forget the fact that a single Probe wrecked the combined JLA, which consisted of Wally, Dianna, J'onn, Plastic Man, Dianna, and pre-berserker Superman. A single Probe also stomped Mongul, Ignition, the Outsiders and Titans, Supergirl, Zod/his forces, Atlantis, etc. Forget the fact that not even Mordru+the Legion were able to defeat a single Probe. That shit doesn't matter.

I remember this exact debate occurring with the Mindless Ones, and how the Hulk was super amazing for destroying them, even though the Thing has taken them out...

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Lol, yeah. How many did DD and Superman wreck again? Black Lightning with a nuclear tank blow one up as well. What kind of question is can this team beat one without bfr?
Black lightning with a Brainiac 13 made nuke amp you mean? An all out superman and H/P doomsday beating probes isn't a low showing either.

Lmao

Originally posted by carver9
Don't forget about Wonder Woman mother taking two of them out by throwing a space ship to their dome piece.
Never happened. Hippolyta was wearing both of Gauntlet of atlas and she took them out with the lasso.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Never happened. Hippolyta was wearing both of Gauntlet of atlas and she took them out with the lasso.

Put the scans up.

Originally posted by carver9
Put the scans up.
Obviously you don't need them. You've read the comic scans, right?

I thought she used the Shield of Athena, personally.

Bwahahahaha!!

Originally posted by abhilegend
Black lightning with a Brainiac 13 made nuke amp you mean? An all out superman and H/P doomsday beating probes isn't a low showing either.

What? And H/P DD as well? How'd you figure he was H/P?

Originally posted by carver9
Don't forget about Wonder Woman mother taking two of them out by throwing a space ship to their dome piece.

Hippolyta barely registered as a threat to them while they both was building a city size hollower which they got half done in a very short amount of time. And then launched it to Earth. She had her powers increased during this with the Sandals of Hermes and the Gauntlet of Atlas with the Lasso was any reason she stood a chance at all (and Diana was battling the Probe also).

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
What? And H/P DD as well? How'd you figure he was H/P?
Yeah, he was amped by a brainiac 13 technology which if you know anything about was uber as hell. Are you serious here? H/P DD?

He was the same that was taken from the end point of time where Waverider had BFRed him.

Then they used the JLA teleporters to keep him in constant flux.

Then the Suicide Squad broke him out.

He hadn't died in between, iirc, so he was the same as H/P.

Originally posted by kevdude
Hippolyta barely registered as a threat to them while they both was building a city size hollower which they got half done in a very short amount of time. And then launched it to Earth. She was had her powers increased during this with the Sandals of Hermes and the Gauntlet of Atlas with the Lasso was any reason she stood a chance at all (and Diana was battling the Probe also).

Didnt u say imperiex killed a bunch of gods? What gods were these?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Didnt u say imperiex killed a bunch of gods? What gods were these?

Yeah he destroyed the Old Gods which is also called the Second World. We know Maggedon had a hand in the disaster as well.

Annihilators

Way one-sided on this match, as I too believe anyone on the Annihilators can solo one Imperiex Probe (some going all out, some not nearly so much). WWs Mothers and an Armored Aqauman each defeated a probe, and in the final battle Superman and Doomsday were taking probes down with relative ease.

Ronan isn't soloing a probe. Come one.

Originally posted by DTM
Way one-sided on this match, as I too believe anyone on the Annihilators can solo one Imperiex Probe (some going all out, some not nearly so much). WWs Mothers and an Armored Aqauman each defeated a probe, and in the final battle Superman and Doomsday were taking probes down with relative ease.
No. Hippolyta and aquaman were both amped when they destroyed the probes (in case of hippolyta it was the probe itself who destroyed itself) as shown below. She just held the probe in the lasso and the probe trying to break the lasso tore itself apart. She was also wearing gauntlets of atlas one of which increases the strength of wearer tenfolds.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_Lasso.jpg http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/th_lasso2.jpg

As for aquaman he was wielding the trident of Poseidon, a skyfather level weapon by which he pierced the probe. Any weapon less potent and they were completely un-affected like here WW wielding a magical battle axe and aquaman simultaneously attacking a probe get completely no sold.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv95/galanphotos/probejla5.jpg

No one in the annihilators is going to solo a probe.

Originally posted by Galan007
I guess low feats (or at least what you guys perceive as low feats) are all that count where Probes are concerned, eh?

Forget the fact that a single Probe wrecked the combined JLA, which consisted of Wally, Dianna, J'onn, Plastic Man, Dianna, and pre-berserker Superman. A single Probe also stomped Mongul, Ignition, the Outsiders and Titans, Supergirl, Zod/his forces, Atlantis, etc. Forget the fact that not even Mordru+the Legion were able to defeat a single Probe. That shit doesn't matter. Was it actually said that Mordru couldn't destroy a Probe?

@ABHI...

Wonder Woman did take out a probe though. The one that was fighting the JLA. She hit it in the back of the head with a shield ans ruptured the armor.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Was it actually said that Mordru couldn't destroy a Probe? No. What was stated is that Mordru+the Legion were meeting "fierce resistance" against a Probe:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14100272/1.jpg.html
That statement heavily implies that the Probe was giving the team one hell of a fight-- and considering I've seen Mordru own heralds(and beyond) pretty easily, that says a lot about a Probe's power, imo.

Assuming the team is allowed to 'go all out", this is a spite thread.

Originally posted by Galan007
No. What was stated is that Mordru+the Legion were meeting "fierce resistance" against a Probe:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14100272/1.jpg.html
That statement heavily implies that the Probe was giving the team one hell of a fight-- and considering I've seen Mordru own heralds(and beyond) pretty easily, that says a lot about a Probe's power, imo.

Honest question here for you, Galan.

Considering we all know for a fact that sometimes teams can job or underperform - especially considering some of the feats performed by characters when by themselves - would that in any way effect the Probe's standing as a whole, iyo?

Personally, I find it a bit on the lower end of Mordru's capabilities to display him struggling with a single Probe by himself, let alone backed by the Legion (namely for the reasons you've already stated).

I'm all for considering a single Probe to be a High Herald at the least, possibly trans, but Mordru struggling with one - with back up no less - doesn't sit right with me, honestly.

My opinion...

Just because teams often under-preform, doesn't mean that was the case here-- especially since that notion isn't supported by the limited information we were given. I mean, we know beings in lower tiers can compete fairly well with beings in higher tiers-- Iron Man has been doing that for most of his career. Other good examples are Odin/Galactus, or Thanos/Odin. Sure there were clear winners in the end, but that doesn't mean the losers didn't put up a good fight overall.

Mordru, for instance, is typically considered a Skyfather. If the Probes are trans-level (which, imo, they seem to be) then they could logically put up a damn good fight, but would ultimately be beaten. If the Probes were heralds, they'd be gestured away by a Skyfather.

Essentially I'm just using that scene as further proof why the Probes should be considered trans-level. I'm not trying to make them more than what they are.

Fair enough.

If each probe was "trans-tier" does that mean when Superman and Doomsday destroyed dozens of them, SM/DD were elite skyfater level?

Or does it mean that the probes jobbed?

A berserker Superman is abstract, bro.

Originally posted by Galan007
My opinion...

Just because teams often under-preform, doesn't mean that was the case here-- especially since that notion isn't supported by the limited information we were given. I mean, we know beings in lower tiers can compete fairly well with beings in higher tiers-- Iron Man has been doing that for most of his career. Other good examples are Odin/Galactus, or Thanos/Odin. Sure there were clear winners in the end, but that doesn't mean the losers didn't put up a good fight overall.

Mordru, for instance, is typically considered a Skyfather. If the Probes are trans-level (which, imo, they seem to be) then they could logically put up a damn good fight, but would ultimately be beaten. If the Probes were heralds, they'd be gestured away by a Skyfather.

Essentially I'm just using that scene as further proof why the Probes should be considered trans-level. I'm not trying to make them more than what they are.

Mordru was having help and still the Probe was doing very well against him and the others. Wouldn't that put the Probe > Mordru? Or a bit above him?

Originally posted by Galan007
My opinion...

Just because teams often under-preform, doesn't mean that was the case here-- especially since that notion isn't supported by the limited information we were given. I mean, we know beings in lower tiers can compete fairly well with beings in higher tiers-- Iron Man has been doing that for most of his career. Other good examples are Odin/Galactus, or Thanos/Odin. Sure there were clear winners in the end, but that doesn't mean the losers didn't put up a good fight overall.

Mordru, for instance, is typically considered a Skyfather. If the Probes are trans-level (which, imo, they seem to be) then they could logically put up a damn good fight, but would ultimately be beaten. If the Probes were heralds, they'd be gestured away by a Skyfather.

Essentially I'm just using that scene as further proof why the Probes should be considered trans-level. I'm not trying to make them more than what they are.

I think most of what you say here is fair and logical.. I would just add one thing and variable not stated... Mordru... has, at times been shown to be less than Skyfather level as well. So, him being let's say Trans level.. would mean a herald could give him a fight.. moving down the scale you put up. Thus, it could also prove that probes were high herald level as well IF Mordru was operating at lower levels.

Originally posted by kevdude
Mordru was having help and still the Probe was doing very well against him and the others. Wouldn't that put the Probe > Mordru? Or a bit above him?

Right which is the EXACT reason Jake brought up the inverse ninja law.. Just because you have more help.. doesn't mean it's good help or logical help. Many times it's used to show the formidability of the bad guy. Which is what I believe the case was here.

It was used quite a bit, yes.

Originally posted by dmills
Ronan can prolly transmute. Maybe.
Well, sort of...
Originally posted by Cogito
Given that the probes fought many people capable of transmutation, I think we can assume that it's a strategy that won't work.
I see that tactic working. Taking the average of a probe's capabilities, one probe will get murdered by this crew.

Could they? Yes.
Would they in a comic? Yes.
Are they going to beat it in every scenario? No.
Could they as individuals solo it? For most of the Annihilators I'm going to say probably not in most scenarios.

What if we use the probe that toom on legion? Do you think the annihilatora are above the legion?

Edit

Originally posted by carver9
Edit


http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/dragon-27-1.gif

Originally posted by Galan007
A berserker Superman is abstract, bro.

He can be touched, so no.

Here ya go Carver. These are some scans relevant to your Carvtrest without the more popular ones:

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/B21-All-OutWar-ActionComics78111.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/B21-All-OutWar-ActionComics78114.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/B21-All-OutWar-ActionComics78116.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/B21-All-OutWar-ActionComics78117.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/JLA-OurWorldsAtWarpg11.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/JLA-OurWorldsAtWarpg12.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/JLA-OurWorldsAtWarpg13.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/JLA-OurWorldsAtWarpg27.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/JLA-OurWorldsAtWarpg28.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/JLA-OurWorldsAtWarpg29.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/WonderWomanv2172pg17.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/WonderWomanv2172pg18.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/YoungJustice-OWAW-37.jpg


PyHQyZ049XE

Probes getting serious wanking.

You've got these guys and people think they can't win against even one probe?

Surfer
Gladiator
Nova
Quasar
Ronan

At least 3-4 probes got wrecked by individual top tiers guys. The Probes are inconsistent across the board. Did any single probe ko Superman? So why would that slow down Surfer who's backed by a team?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Probes getting serious wanking.

You've got these guys and people think they can't win against even one probe?

Surfer
Gladiator
Nova
Quasar
Ronan

At least 3-4 probes got wrecked by individual top tiers guys. The Probes are inconsistent across the board. Did any single probe ko Superman? So why would that slow down Surfer who's backed by a team?

Dun remember a probe taking out Superman at all. Yeah this team team pretty much annihilates a single probe.

Lets use the probe legion took on...

Superman not losing to a probe is a low end for the probes?

The probe that landed in Kansas did KO him after the explosion.

Originally posted by SquallX
Superman not losing to a probe is a low end for the probes?

erm.. everyone on the list are heralds.. so a it's quite significant point.

Originally posted by SquallX
Superman not losing to a probe is a low end for the probes?

Says who? Seems like everyone is putting the probes on high herald and trans level then claiming an entire team of mostly heralds can't beat one when Superman, a high herald, has wrecked multiple probes.

Superman, who lacks energy manipulation, defeated a number of them. This team has atleast 3 energy manipulator and 3 speed blitzer can't take out a probe? Hard to believe it. Most of these guys kill at least one, some as much as Superman did.

team stomps

Supes would defeat any of the Annihilators with his hands behind his back. So, not a low feat.

Lol

I guess the Probes` power must be amping the "Ninja Laws" to an extreme degree..

Conclusion: Team gets steamrolled but 1on1 the Probe is easily destroyed.

Annihilators.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Says who? Seems like everyone is putting the probes on high herald and trans level then claiming an entire team of mostly heralds can't beat one when Superman, a high herald, has wrecked multiple probes.

An all out superman who was specifically meant to be vastly stronger than usual and considered a peer to H/P doomsday was destroying the probes. Normal superman even with the aid of mongul struggled with just a single probe.

What does energy manipulation has to do with power? FYI kyle amped by Ion force got steamrolled by a single probe. The same kyle contained a portion of the imperiex himself. Blitzer? Who is even close to superman's speed in these chumps?
None of these guys are going to solo a probe much less kill as many as superman or doomsday did.

Originally posted by carver9
@ABHI...

Wonder Woman did take out a probe though. The one that was fighting the JLA. She hit it in the back of the head with a shield ans ruptured the armor.
It was with a magical shield and superman already weakened its armor.

It took the JLA going all out to take one Probe out, and if it was not for Superman explaining the armor WW would have never done what she did. The 2nd Probe left thinking it was over cause Aquaman was going to get beat down, and all was left was WW. They would had been in trouble if not for Superman. Superman/Mongul together was having trouble with just one. He finally stopped holding back when he found out it was not alive.. Even then the explosion took its toll on him. Annihilators could win but would be very close (considering Kyle was nearing Ion power at the time). Trans level for Probes as well.

OWAW Superman was a top end top feat Superman. Forum rules put Annis at average showings level and they would all lose to a Probe individually. They'd kill a probe as a group though after a good fight.

Top end feats/portrayals of each char would allow MAYBE BRB and for sure Surfer to solo.

Team win easy , probes were fodder

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I think most of what you say here is fair and logical.. I would just add one thing and variable not stated... Mordru... has, at times been shown to be less than Skyfather level as well. So, him being let's say Trans level.. would mean a herald could give him a fight.. moving down the scale you put up. Thus, it could also prove that probes were high herald level as well IF Mordru was operating at lower levels. True, Mordru certainly has some sub-skyfather showings. Overall, though, he's generally considered a skyfather.

31st century mordru is a skyfather.

Annihilators win

Originally posted by abhilegend
Blitzer? Who is even close to superman's speed in these chumps?

http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/ezhl6bjpg.gif

Originally posted by dmills
http://i1215.photobucket.com/albums/cc513/dmills31/ezhl6bjpg.gif
Answer the question bro.
uhuh

Originally posted by abhilegend
Answer the question bro.
uhuh

Nova, Norrin. I'd include FAGladiator but he can't even manage a decent bfr, let alone be smart enough to blitz. You know, with him being a stupid worthless POS character and all.

WWK only said that the team has 3 blitzers, the question of rather or not they're as fast as Superman is (redundant) baggage that you added in and you know it lol.

People don't want to accept how strong Superman was in this story arc. lol.

Depends on the Probe. The Team wreckers would... well wreck the Annihilators. The "weaker" Probes could be taken out but not without some casualties on the Team.

Team

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Depends on the Probe. The Team wreckers would... well wreck the Annihilators. The "weaker" Probes could be taken out but not without some casualties on the Team.

Sounds about right. I don't see the Annhilators>Legion, anyway.

Didn't the initial probe that Superman fought take on the 100,000 powered up Daxamites?

I'd have to dig out the issues, but I'm pretty sure that story was told before the big reveal that there even was an Imperiex Prime, making it pretty much about that probe.

I may be wrong, but going to dig through all my boxes to find a story that old would be a pain, but I'll do it if no one else knows offhand.

It just seemed that no one witnessed the Imperiex outside of the Probes, prior to the end of Our Worlds at War.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Says who? Seems like everyone is putting the probes on high herald and trans level then claiming an entire team of mostly heralds can't beat one when Superman, a high herald, has wrecked multiple probes.

Superman, who lacks energy manipulation, defeated a number of them. This team has atleast 3 energy manipulator and 3 speed blitzer can't take out a probe? Hard to believe it. Most of these guys kill at least one, some as much as Superman did. No.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Says who? Seems like everyone is putting the probes on high herald and trans level then claiming an entire team of mostly heralds can't beat one when Superman, a high herald, has wrecked multiple probes.

Superman, who lacks energy manipulation, defeated a number of them. This team has atleast 3 energy manipulator and 3 speed blitzer can't take out a probe? Hard to believe it. Most of these guys kill at least one, some as much as Superman did.

According to some, OWAW Superman and Doomsday are at least elite skyfather level.

Originally posted by Juntai
Didn't the initial probe that Superman fought take on the 100,000 powered up Daxamites?

I'd have to dig out the issues, but I'm pretty sure that story was told before the big reveal that there even was an Imperiex Prime, making it pretty much about that probe.

I may be wrong, but going to dig through all my boxes to find a story that old would be a pain, but I'll do it if no one else knows offhand.

It just seemed that no one witnessed the Imperiex outside of the Probes, prior to the end of Our Worlds at War. You're right:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114937_i1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114938_i2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114940_i3.jpg

But like I said, the Probes' high-end feats don't matter here. Apparently 5 heralds would be able to do what 100,000 solar powered Daxamites (+Daxamite tech) were unable to.

Originally posted by Juntai
Didn't the initial probe that Superman fought take on the 100,000 powered up Daxamites?

I'd have to dig out the issues, but I'm pretty sure that story was told before the big reveal that there even was an Imperiex Prime, making it pretty much about that probe.

I may be wrong, but going to dig through all my boxes to find a story that old would be a pain, but I'll do it if no one else knows offhand.

It just seemed that no one witnessed the Imperiex outside of the Probes, prior to the end of Our Worlds at War.

If you find it, please post it. I don't think 100,000 was all at once.

Originally posted by Galan007
You're right:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114937_i1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114938_i2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114940_i3.jpg

But like I said, the Probes' high-end feats don't matter here. Apparently 5 heralds would be able to do what 100,000 solar powered Daxamites (+Daxamite tech) were unable to.

Originally posted by Galan007
You're right:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114937_i1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114938_i2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114940_i3.jpg

But like I said, the Probes' high-end feats don't matter here. Apparently 5 heralds would be able to do what 100,000 solar powered Daxamites were unable to.

Never mind. That's crazy.

Hey, Galan! How many probes did Imperiex have in his army?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Hey, Galan! How many probes did Imperiex have in his army? I don't think they gave a number. Enough to pretty much attack the whole universe nearly at once?

A "countless" amount:
http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14114961_i4.jpg

Hmm, so in the millions do you think?

They have powers that Daxamites don't however

Originally posted by Endless Mike
They have powers that Daxamites don't however

True, but One Probe took on the League and Legion of Super-Heroes, which can match and exceed in power.

But they didn't use all of those exotic powers against it

So, they were just punching the Probe? I doubt it would have worked anyway. Remember, many heroes needed a power amp to defeat one of them.

Originally posted by Golgo13
True, but One Probe took on the League and Legion of Super-Heroes, which can match and exceed in power. ...And Mordru.
...And Superman/Mongul
...And Wally+J'onn+Dianna+normal Superman+Kyle+Plastic Man
...And Zod+his forces
...And Aquaman /w/ Trident+Atlantis
...And Kalanor, home of Despero
...And 100K solar powered Daxamites
...And Almerac
...And Karna
etc.

That crap doesn't matter though.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
But they didn't use all of those exotic powers against it Mordru was clearly trying to cast against it in the picture.
A lot happens off-panel. It would be kinda dumb to think they didn't try whatever they had to win those confrontations.

PIS happens all the time, how many times has Flash for instance forgotten 99% of the powers he has when in a fight?

Originally posted by abhilegend
An all out superman who was specifically meant to be vastly stronger than usual and considered a peer to H/P doomsday was destroying the probes. Normal superman even with the aid of mongul struggled with just a single probe.

What does energy manipulation has to do with power? FYI kyle amped by Ion force got steamrolled by a single probe. The same kyle contained a portion of the imperiex himself. Blitzer? Who is even close to superman's speed in these chumps?

None of these guys are going to solo a probe much less kill as many as superman or doomsday did.

So how come Superman needed all that weapon during Hunter and Prey just to fight H/P DD? He could've just gone all out right?

So now your saying Kyle contained Imperiex's powers but lost to a probe; therefore, you're claiming Superman all out and H/P DD, who killed a slew of probes, is more power than Imperiex, who was able to kill Doomsday in one shot and almost killed all out Superman? Some logic.

Ever heard of jobbing and wanking? That's the best way to describe the probes in OWAW. One minute Kyle and the JLA feel to take out a single probe, the next Kyle contains Imperiex's big bang. One minute Superman struggles to fight a probe, the next he kills multiples as if they were fodder Ultron units.

Most of these guys would solo a probe. Kyle, WW, or Flash could also solo a probe if they weren't jobbing to make Superman look good.

Surfer, Gladiator, Quasar, and Nova would all solo a probe.

Originally posted by Juntai
Mordru was clearly trying to cast against it in the picture.
A lot happens off-panel. It would be kinda dumb to think they didn't try whatever they had to win those confrontations.

How many on panels were there of Mordru against a probe? If it's just that one picture, there seems to be a lot of posters getting boners over an ambiguous feat.

I still personally think Mordru struggling with a Probe isn't indicative of Mordru at his best levels or even his upper end levels. It's canon and certainly happened on panel, but it's pretty low for him.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
So how come Superman needed all that weapon during Hunter and Prey just to fight H/P DD? He could've just gone all out right?

He had mental blocks suppressing his true power then.



No. I claimed kyle contained a portion of imperiex's power(the rest was being absorbed by warworld).



That's not jobbing. The probes were that powerful, also kyle only held a portion of imperiex's powers. Superman was specifically powered up in that confrontation.



If that's your definition of jobbing, you don't read comics.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
They have powers that Daxamites don't however
You're not claiming annihilators>100k daxamites, are you? That would be pretty dumb to say.

Originally posted by dmills
Nova, Norrin. I'd include FAGladiator but he can't even manage a decent bfr, let alone be smart enough to blitz. You know, with him being a stupid worthless POS character and all.

WWK only said that the team has 3 blitzers, the question of rather or not they're as fast as Superman is (redundant) baggage that you added in and you know it lol.
I only asked that because superman blitzed a probe and it shrugged it off. As for your answer, norrin and rich aren't close to superman level speed.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You're not claiming annihilators>100k daxamites, are you? That would be pretty dumb to say.

Just to be clear, you're not claiming that Superman>100k daxamites, right? :-p

Originally posted by abhilegend
He had mental blocks suppressing his true power then.

No. I claimed kyle contained a portion of imperiex's power(the rest was being absorbed by warworld).

That's not jobbing. The probes were that powerful, also kyle only held a portion of imperiex's powers. Superman was specifically powered up in that confrontation.

If that's your definition of jobbing, you don't read comics.



Lol, he had mental blocks on? Yes, nobody ever jobs in a Loeb book/crossover ever.

Then why bring Kyle up if that is insignificant? Kyle didn't anything except looked foolish against the probes. He shot some missiles whoop dee doo. That must mean he was performing at his best.

The heroes were there to wank the probes so Loeb's all out Superman b.s. looked impressive. OWAW was Loeb's basically handing out boners to the Superman fanboys. Ever heard of Rulk?

Originally posted by Galan007
You're right:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114937_i1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114938_i2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114940_i3.jpg

But like I said, the Probes' high-end feats don't matter here. Apparently 5 heralds would be able to do what 100,000 solar powered Daxamites (+Daxamite tech) were unable to.

Probe or Imperiex Prime himself?

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Lol, he had mental blocks on? Yes, nobody ever jobs in a Loeb book/crossover ever. You haven't even read OWAW, have you? It was loeb who had superman and mongul struggle against a single probe. It was Joe Casey who had superman tear probes apart.

Because it wasn't insignificant. Containing even a portion of a big bang is better than any energy manipulation annihilators have.
Yep, anytime characters don't bust planets they under-perform. Nice logic.

It wasn't Jeph loeb who wrote superman tearing through probes.

Galan...

Isnt that the first probe in the scans you posted? If so, wasn't that Probe above the rest based off fts.

Originally posted by carver9
Galan...

Isnt that the first probe in the scans you posted? If so, wasn't that Probe above the rest based off fts.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha, what?

I asked Galan, not ABHI.

Originally posted by carver9
I asked Galan, not ABHI.
Lulz.

Originally posted by abhilegend
I only asked that because superman blitzed a probe and it shrugged it off. As for your answer, norrin and rich aren't close to superman level speed.

Uh huh.


HAHAHAHAHA.

Originally posted by dmills
Uh huh.


HAHAHAHAHA.
Yep.

Should we compare feats? Wouldn't go well for your boys.

Carver and Abhi, just stop it. Or get a room. Either or. Just stop ****ing up this thread, thanks.

Originally posted by Galan007
You're right:
http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114937_i1.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114938_i2.jpg http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14114940_i3.jpg

But like I said, the Probes' high-end feats don't matter here. Apparently 5 heralds would be able to do what 100,000 solar powered Daxamites (+Daxamite tech) were unable to.

Holy shit.

Are we sure that's a probe and not Prime?

Originally posted by abhilegend
You haven't even read OWAW, have you? It was loeb who had superman and mongul struggle against a single probe. It was Joe Casey who had superman tear probes apart.

Because it wasn't insignificant. Containing even a portion of a big bang is better than any energy manipulation annihilators have.
Yep, anytime characters don't bust planets they under-perform. Nice logic.

It wasn't Jeph loeb who wrote superman tearing through probes.

Didn't read all of OWAW but did read the first parts of it. Looked at the respect thread and all the arguments for Imperiex and his probes. Seeing a lot of wanking.

The entire story line was a Superman wanking. So Superman failing at the beginning to justify the all out argument that Superman was just holding back all these times diminishes my point of the whole thing as a set up to make Superman look good how?

It's a crossover event, not an individual book. Crossovers are a collaboration between writers. It's Loeb's event, a lot of his ideas. It's a Superman wanking.

It's a fun book but don't present this as somehow above an entire group of beings who've got similar outlandish feats.

How is it Pis if the probes has more than one good ahowing? I can understand if it happened only once but it didnt.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Didn't read all of OWAW but did read the first parts of it. Looked at the respect thread and all the arguments for Imperiex and his probes. Seeing a lot of wanking. So, you didn't read the comic but were commenting on it as a jobfest. How carver of you!

What does it being a wankfest has to do with the feats of superman? Is HOTM non-canon because pak was masturbating while writing it?


That's reaching even for you.

No.

Originally posted by abhilegend
So, you didn't read the comic but were commenting on it as a jobfest. How carver of you!

Lmao. So I have to read all it to call bullshit when I see bullshit? Hahaha. Have to read what when everything's been presented and it's just a lot of wanking.



It's a wankfest. Looks great but not above any feats the members of this team have.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yep.

Should we compare feats? Wouldn't go well for your boys.

Oh hell no bro. I'm not getting sucked into arguing about "who went 700 lightyears the fastest let's count the panels" bullshit lol. That shit is mindnumbing. Mr. Master "Eternity, Mxy and Infinity vs Lucifer, Thanos with IG and classic Beyonder" level mindnumbing. And to make it worse, it'll be arguing with you, so not only would I have to ask CC (cause I'm horrible in math) how fast he thinks Nova flew across the 700 light years, I'd also have to spend an equally frustrating amount of time arguing about the validity of the feat itself. No thanks.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Lmao. So I have to read all it to call bullshit when I see bullshit? Hahaha. Have to read what when everything's been presented and it's just a lot of wanking.
Yes. That doesn't mean anything here on the forum.




Dream on.

Originally posted by dmills
Oh hell no bro. I'm not getting sucked into arguing about "who went 700 lightyears the fastest let's count the panels" bullshit lol. That shit is mindnumbing. Eternity, Mxy and Infinity vs Lucifer, Thanos with IG and classic Beyonder level mindnumbing. And to make it worse, it'll be arguing with you, so not only would I have to ask CC (cause I'm horrible in math) how fast he thinks Nova flew across the 700 light years, I'd also have to spend time an equally frustrating amount of time arguing about the validity of the feat itself. No thanks.

Or, and hear me out, you could just say "phuck you."

Originally posted by dmills
Oh hell no bro. I'm not getting sucked into arguing about "who went 700 lightyears the fastest let's count the panels" bullshit lol. That shit is mindnumbing. Mr. Master "Eternity, Mxy and Infinity vs Lucifer, Thanos with IG and classic Beyonder" level mindnumbing. And to make it worse, it'll be arguing with you, so not only would I have to ask CC (cause I'm horrible in math) how fast he thinks Nova flew across the 700 light years, I'd also have to spend time an equally frustrating amount of time arguing about the validity of the feat itself. No thanks.
What was that thing quan said nearly infinite times? AH, "concession accepted".

Originally posted by abhilegend
What was that thing quan said nearly infinite times? AH, "concession accepted".
































Oh, so you're like Quanchi now? That explains everything.

Loeb wrote OWAW when he was at his best. This is Hush-era Loeb, not Rulk era Loeb.

Yes, the story is Superman centric, but the probes are legitimately powerful.

Originally posted by abhilegend
What was that thing quan said nearly infinite times? AH, "concession accepted".
































You can have it lol. Not my cup of joe brother.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Or, and hear me out, you could just say "phuck you."

Hmm. There is that lol.

Originally posted by -Pr-


Loeb wrote OWAW when he was at his best. This is Hush-era Loeb, not Rulk era Loeb.

Yes, the story is Superman centric, but the probes are legitimately powerful.



Personally, I have no doubt the Annihilators could beat a single Probe.

As far as them soloing one, if you use some of their best feats ever - and I'm unsure if this thread or the other one specifies high end feats are especially encouraged - then yes, Surfer, Bill, and Quasar could likely solo one with some effort.

I do think the Probes are legitimately powerful, at least High Herald with some of them bordering on Trans. levels. That said, given the individual feats of some of the people fighting them (Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Mordru, etc, etc, etc.) I don't think we can seriously argue they were necessarily at their best when facing the Probes.

Unfortunately, this kinda leads to a problem. Do you discredit the Probes formidability as shown and intended via the entire OWAW arc because specific individuals have greater feats than that of struggling with a Probe? Or do you take the Probes at face value and deduce that because they took on multiple heralds (and beings above that) they must be uni-formally above that tier?

It's not a question that can easily be answered because one way or the other, that's going to cause closer scrutiny to many team based battles and threats when compared to a single character outperforming their performance when saddled with others.

Either way, someone's going to get angry and pissed.

Honestly, one probe won't cut it. They'll be troublesome for any member individually, maybe even a couple of them at a time, but the Annihilators should win.

Now, it it was equal numbers, then we might have something arguable.

Originally posted by dmills
You can have it lol. Not my cup of joe brother.
Its going to be alright bro.

It's tricky, because we know that yes, sometimes teams job or underperform. That's just the way it is. Take WWIII for example. Yes, Black Adam was and is a tough mofo, but the JSAers and Leaguers that were there have feats to suggest that, in a forum fight where everyone's at their best, Teth should be getting his ass handed to him in a lol stomp. Even Prime, as legitimately uber as he is, by all rights via feats, should have trouble with Superman alone given Kal's feats. Yet in the pages of SCW, he's shown casually dealing with multiple heralds and the like. And yes, before someone interjects, this applies to Marvel, too.

The Probes fall in a similar quality, imo. I don't think they should be discredited, but at the same time, in the grand scheme of things, it really depends on what level we're to be taking their opponents.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's tricky, because we know that yes, sometimes teams job or underperform. That's just the way it is. Take WWIII for example. Yes, Black Adam was and is a tough mofo, but the JSAers and Leaguers that were there have feats to suggest that, in a forum fight where everyone's at their best, Teth should be getting his ass handed to him in a lol stomp. Even Prime, as legitimately uber as he is, by all rights via feats, should have trouble with Superman alone given Kal's feats. Yet in the pages of SCW, he's shown casually dealing with multiple heralds and the like. And yes, before someone interjects, this applies to Marvel, too.

The Probes fall in a similar quality, imo. I don't think they should be discredited, but at the same time, in the grand scheme of things, it really depends on what level we're to be taking their opponents.

This applies to Marvel "except Hulk".

Originally posted by carver9
This applies to Marvel "except Hulk".

It especially applies to that gamma irradiated buffoon.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It especially applies to that gamma irradiated buffoon.


Lol...

Pixie.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It especially applies to that gamma irradiated buffoon.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


Personally, I have no doubt the Annihilators could beat a single Probe.

As far as them soloing one, if you use some of their best feats ever - and I'm unsure if this thread or the other one specifies high end feats are especially encouraged - then yes, Surfer, Bill, and Quasar could likely solo one with some effort.

I do think the Probes are legitimately powerful, at least High Herald with some of them bordering on Trans. levels. That said, given the individual feats of some of the people fighting them (Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Mordru, etc, etc, etc.) I don't think we can seriously argue they were necessarily at their best when facing the Probes.

Unfortunately, this kinda leads to a problem. Do you discredit the Probes formidability as shown and intended via the entire OWAW arc because specific individuals have greater feats than that of struggling with a Probe? Or do you take the Probes at face value and deduce that because they took on multiple heralds (and beings above that) they must be uni-formally above that tier?

It's not a question that can easily be answered because one way or the other, that's going to cause closer scrutiny to many team based battles and threats when compared to a single character outperforming their performance when saddled with others.

Either way, someone's going to get angry and pissed. It's clear they were meant to be above, judging by their performances against teams and even the one on ones. I mean, they were manhandling the other 'peers' of Superman.

I understand your problem with this, is that Superman was manhandling by the handful when he went balls out, and thus, he should be able to do that to the other 'peers' as well.

I don't see the problem, and believe that in that mode- he would. And -easily-.

Superman has 'peers', but he constantly distinguishes himself from them to the point where even they're flat out amazed. This was one of those examples.

Him manhandling Darkseid, was another -- perhaps less extreme -- version of this. His battles were Doomsday are the same. No one else could toe to toe and slug with Doomsday.

But somehow, the haters don't seem to recognize this.

Somehow they see it as, well, if Superman can do it, then so can abcd and e.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing

Probe or Imperiex Prime himself? Probe. The fact that the Probe wasn't the real Imperiex wasn't revealed until the end of that issue.

There's probably like one legit "hater" in the thread. And he's an idiot. I don't think anyone who questions the feat or arc or necessarily argues in favor of the Annihilators is a hater in any case.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And he's an idiot.

Phuck you.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
There's probably like one legit "hater" in the thread. And he's an idiot. I don't think anyone who questions the feat or arc or necessarily argues in favor of the Annihilators is a hater in any case. I wasn't referring to anyone specifically, and you shouldn't either.... just those that support that overall view- when Superman trashes guys like Darkseid, or Doomsday, or cuts through Probes, its them being below that level they believe Superman to be in with all his peers. When none of his peers could hardly give them pause, even in groups.

But it's also wrong to write it off as being just a crossover Superman fanwanking. And not giving the characters credit. This was a 2 year storyline, that ran through most of DC's books and the buildup of Superman to this point, getting more and more powerful was years before that.

You can't just write off something like 5 years of solo book, and 2 years of line-wide crossover, and say it was just a wanking. lol.

Just write off half a decade of books, because Superman was more powerful than you want him to be.

It even sounds retarded.





Don't like it?


Don't use that version of Superman or the Probes in threads.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
Oh, so you're like Quanchi now? That explains everything.
Lulz.

Originally posted by Juntai
I wasn't referring to anyone specifically, and you shouldn't either.... just those that support that overall view- when Superman trashes guys like Darkseid, or Doomsday, or cuts through Probes, its them being below that level they believe Superman to be in with all his peers. When none of his peers could hardly give them pause, even in groups.

But it's also wrong to write it off as being just a crossover Superman fanwanking. And not giving the characters credit. This was a 2 year storyline, that ran through most of DC's books and the buildup of Superman to this point, getting more and more powerful was years before that.

You can't just write off something like 5 years of solo book, and 2 years of line-wide crossover, and say it was just a wanking. lol.

Just write off half a decade of books, because Superman was more powerful than you want him to be.

It even sounds retarded.





Don't like it?


Don't use that version of Superman or the Probes in threads.

Originally posted by Juntai
I wasn't referring to anyone specifically, and you shouldn't either.... just those that support that overall view- when Superman trashes guys like Darkseid, or Doomsday, or cuts through Probes, its them being below that level they believe Superman to be in with all his peers. When none of his peers could hardly give them pause, even in groups.

But it's also wrong to write it off as being just a crossover Superman fanwanking. And not giving the characters credit. This was a 2 year storyline, that ran through most of DC's books and the buildup of Superman to this point, getting more and more powerful was years before that.

You can't just write off something like 5 years of solo book, and 2 years of line-wide crossover, and say it was just a wanking. lol.

Just write off half a decade of books, because Superman was more powerful than you want him to be.

It even sounds retarded.





Don't like it?


Don't use that version of Superman or the Probes in threads.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/gg587/golgi7777/ow.gif

Originally posted by Juntai
It's clear they were meant to be above, judging by their performances against teams and even the one on ones. I mean, they were manhandling the other 'peers' of Superman.

I understand your problem with this, is that Superman was manhandling by the handful when he went balls out, and thus, he should be able to do that to the other 'peers' as well.

I don't see the problem, and believe that in that mode- he would. And -easily-.

Superman has 'peers', but he constantly distinguishes himself from them to the point where even they're flat out amazed. This was one of those examples.

Him manhandling Darkseid, was another -- perhaps less extreme -- version of this. His battles were Doomsday are the same. No one else could toe to toe and slug with Doomsday.

But somehow, the haters don't seem to recognize this.

Somehow they see it as, well, if Superman can do it, then so can abcd and e. So Superman can go toe to toe with Doomsday. He's also been manhandled before by him as well. He also has more experience against him. Abc logic doesn't prove Superman can beat Orion despite these two going head to head multiple times so it's abc logic and ignoring the fact Superman has the most experience going up against Doomsday.

Orion has also beaten the hell/killed Darkseid on panel. Darkseid also manhandled Superman during OWAW so it's ironic you using the word manhandle. Darkseid, Orion, and Superman are all peers so one can look better than the other on occasion no one is flat out above any of them as a rule of thumb.

I am a hater and proud of it. But don't you dare accuse others of being haters just because they share a different perspective.

Surfer's made Galactus awe at his crunch feat, Thor has almost killed a weakened Galactus, destroyed Exitar's dome, etc. These feats don't suddenly make them beyond their peers it's just another example of their highest most impressive moments. Most long standing top tiers have them don't act like this is somehow different for Superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
You haven't even read OWAW, have you? It was loeb who had superman and mongul struggle against a single probe. It was Joe Casey who had superman tear probes apart.

Because it wasn't insignificant. Containing even a portion of a big bang is better than any energy manipulation annihilators have.
Yep, anytime characters don't bust planets they under-perform. Nice logic.

It wasn't Jeph loeb who wrote superman tearing through probes.

You don't read marvel comics do you? That is the only explanation for believing that feat is absolutely better than anybody on the Annihilators

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You don't read marvel comics do you? That is the only explanation for believing that feat is absolutely better than anybody on the Annihilators
Hahaha what? I don't read marvel comics? Why don't you educate me then about who in the annihilators has better feat than OWAW superman? No cosmic cheese. Let's go.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Hahaha what? I don't read marvel comics? Why don't you educate me then about who in the annihilators has better feat than OWAW superman? No cosmic cheese. Let's go.

OWAW can he seen as a "cosmic cheese" arc, tho. If you argue within its scope, you should allow the opposing side to introduce cosmic cheese themselves.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
OWAW can he seen as a "cosmic cheese" arc, tho. If you argue within its scope, you should allow the opposing side to introduce cosmic cheese themselves.
By cosmic cheese, I meant destroying planets and shit.

Originally posted by abhilegend
By cosmic cheese, I meant destroying planets and shit.

Yeah, but like I said, why exclude specific feats that may prove their point within similar storytelling styles as the arc in question (OWAW)? If you really wanna prove your point without a shadow of a doubt, allow them thar courtesy of presenting equal evidences and simply counter their arguments.

I certainly see you as capable of doing so.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Yeah, but like I said, why exclude specific feats that may prove their point within similar storytelling styles as the arc in question (OWAW)? If you really wanna prove your point without a shadow of a doubt, allow them thar courtesy of presenting equal evidences and simply counter their arguments.

I certainly see you as capable of doing so.
Because debating with feats about destroying planets and shit is boring! I can do that too, but I prefer character fights much more than these kind of feats. Honestly, if I went to space cheese route superman wouldn't lose a single fight on the forums to anyone below skyfathers.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Because debating with feats about destroying planets and shit is boring! I can do that too, but I prefer character fights much more than these kind of feats. Honestly, if I went to space cheese route superman wouldn't lose a single fight on the forums to anyone below skyfathers.

But that's my point. Let em bring thier big guns ang counter it. That way, no doubts.

Boring or no, it will conclusively end the debate.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
But that's my point. Let em bring thier big guns ang counter it. That way, no doubts.

Boring or no, it will conclusively end the debate.
Now when you mention that, bring it on.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You don't read marvel comics do you? That is the only explanation for believing that feat is absolutely better than anybody on the Annihilators

Kid, I was talking about your claim that Kyle feat was better than any absorbtion feat by any annihilator. That is your stance correct?