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Flash? Mac? Eddie? Who is the strongest user of the original Symbiote? Ultimate Eddie is also in this.

Eddie ♥ He'll always be venom to me.

Cletus

Red Symbiote Rulk Rider...


end of the thread

Brock with the Symbiote had some of the best feats.

Kletus. He just went beast-mode when he came back from orbit and hasn't stopped.

Kletus doesn't count; not the original symbiote.

Eddie Brock has the best feats as Venom.

With the classic (1st) symbiote, Brock, though Flash is pretty close.

Overall it depends on how you define it.

Crazy shit pulled? Carnage went Godzilla size (planet of the symbiots), controlled and entire town + Avengers team without even flinching.

Single attributes like Durability/Resistance: Anti Venom, he was standing in some kind of sonic construct filled with radiation (Songbird + Radioactive Man) the narration stated the heat was like a small sun.

Crimson Surfer for the win

Not Gargan

Most all of the Symbiotes strongest feats were from outside assistance, but Brock gets honorable mention for going toe to toe with Juggernaut.

Gargan went toe to toe with Colossus who is a legit class 100.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Gargan went toe to toe with Colossus who is a legit class 100.

Gargan didn't go "toe to toe" with him, he used his larger mass to take him off guard and Colossus was having a hard time figuring how to take him down because he kept getting bigger.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Kletus doesn't count; not the original symbiote.

Eddie Brock has the best feats as Venom.

feats are feats

He must get stronger when he gets bigger because when Gargan slammed his fist on the ground it created a earthquake that was knocking over cars and tollie cars.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
feats are feats

Not when the thread is asking for feats from specific individuals; in this case, it's regarding those who've had the original Venom symbiote, and Carnage ain't one of them.

Originally posted by juggernaut74
Gargan went toe to toe with Colossus who is a legit class 100. Brock went toe to toe with Juggernaut.

Eddie. I recall him beating the crap out of like 6 cops, taking down a bunch of armed thugs and beating the crap out of a symbiote all witout the Venom suit. Has the best feats as Venom too.

Back me up, Sam.

Originally posted by Damborgson
Eddie ♥ He'll always be venom to me.

Originally posted by Mindset
Back me up, Sam. thumbsup

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Not when the thread is asking for feats from specific individuals; in this case, it's regarding those who've had the original Venom symbiote, and Carnage ain't one of them.

OP needs to clear that up then at first glance it looks like he's simply asking who's the strongest symbiote user not just the original suit.

if its the original then its eddie without question...if not then its cletus...with toxin as runner up

Originally posted by Sin I AM
OP needs to clear that up then at first glance it looks like he's simply asking who's the strongest symbiote user not just the original suit.

if its the original then its eddie without question...if not then its cletus...with toxin as runner up Originally posted by The Merchant
Flash? Mac? Eddie? Who is the strongest user of the original Symbiote? Ultimate Eddie is also in this. Also the fact the he only lists Hosts of the Venom symbiote is another indicator.

Its Eddie even if Cassidy was in it

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Also the fact the he only lists Hosts of the Venom symbiote is another indicator.

like i said it wasnt clear

Originally posted by SamZED
Its Eddie even if Cassidy was in it

no

Originally posted by Sin I AM

no yes

She-Venom

vin

She-Venom was a terrible idea.

Yeah, Scream was much better.

Originally posted by SamZED
yes

y

Originally posted by Sin I AM
y A lot has changed since Carnage's first appearance.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, Scream was much better.

I like Venom (Brock, Flash), Carnage, Scream, Anti-Venom, Scorn

They should kill off Toxin (though going by what's happend in the Venom books Brock will probably become Toxin...) and those 4 useless soldiers that were made out of the Hybrid symbiote(s) or refuse them back into Hybrid


@ Sin, actually it's crystal meth clear what the OP was reffering to

Originally posted by SamZED
A lot has changed since Carnage's first appearance. Actually by now Carnage has become much much more than a single hero villain, as it was shown in his 3 minis since his half dead ass was pulled from orbit.

Originally posted by SamZED
A lot has changed since Carnage's first appearance.

i know and that hurts your case not help it...

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Actually by now Carnage has become much much more than a single hero villain, as it was shown in his 3 minis since his half dead ass was pulled from orbit. I know. Still dond get how he regenerated legs. But the question was - who's stronger? And its Venom. Besides at one point or the other Venom displayed the same powers Kletus used recently. He just doesnt spam these abilities like Cassidy does.

Originally posted by SamZED
I know. Still dond get how he regenerated legs. But the question was - who's stronger? And its Venom. Besides at one point or the other Venom displayed the same powers Kletus used recently. He just doesnt spam these abilities like Cassidy does.

the spawn is always stronger than the parent...its just dependent on who the host is and plot that determines wins

Originally posted by Sin I AM
the spawn is always stronger than the parent...its just dependent on who the host is and plot that determines wins The spawn is not always stronger. Its an old assumption/statement that was proven to be false over the years. Agreed on the host part.

I loved how Gargan as Scorpion pwned Cage, but as Venom got his ass handed to him.

Gargan Venom got his ass kicked during his very first appearance... some badass new villain he turned out to be.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I loved how Gargan as Scorpion pwned Cage, but as Venom got his ass handed to him. ? Issue + number?

You havent seen it? Gargan humiliated Cage. Although it was preBendis power Cage. Dont remmber the issue or number. Maybe Stilt does.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
? Issue + number?

For the Scorpion/Cage fight or the one with Gargan Venom?

The first one I have no idea, Heroes for Hire maybe? Here's the scan:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/58754/1363771-scorpionpwnscage_super.jpg

The latter happened during Siege in New Avengers. Written by Bendis, of course...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
For the Scorpion/Cage fight or the one with Gargan Venom?

The first one I have no idea, Heroes for Hire maybe? Here's the scan:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/58754/1363771-scorpionpwnscage_super.jpg

The latter happened during Siege in New Avengers. Written by Bendis, of course... The Scorpion fight, thanks for the scan

Good old times when all Spidey villains were cool and superhuman speed meant something. Now anyone can mach anyones speed simply by being popularenough. Cage has no buiseness laying a hand on Venom.

Originally posted by SamZED
The spawn is not always stronger. Its an old assumption/statement that was proven to be false over the years. Agreed on the host part.


how so? each newer symbiote proves more resilient and less susceptible to earlier vulnerabilities

Originally posted by Sin I AM
how so? each newer symbiote proves more resilient and less susceptible to earlier vulnerabilities just a myth based on an unproven statement. Carnage has better resistance to sonics, Venom has a much much better resistance to fire as shown on-panel.

Venom vs Carnage
4-1 for Venom...

5 - 1 if you count Flash overpowering him physically.

Oh I forgot that...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
For the Scorpion/Cage fight or the one with Gargan Venom?

The first one I have no idea, Heroes for Hire maybe? Here's the scan:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/58754/1363771-scorpionpwnscage_super.jpg

The latter happened during Siege in New Avengers. Written by Bendis, of course...

I don't think it's Heroes for Hire, because I just got done going through Ostranders 1997-1998 run, and he's almost as bad as Bendism having Cage mess up Creed without too much trouble. And makes it worse by having Creed talk about how he goes toe to toe with Thor and Hulk all the time.

And Power Man and Iron Fist weren't on the team for Civil War.. And the V3 happens post Bendis power.

Cage beat Sabertooth?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
I loved how Gargan as Scorpion pwned Cage, but as Venom got his ass handed to him. Also Gargan is dead now so doesnt matter.

Originally posted by SamZED
5 - 1 if you count Flash overpowering him physically.
Also don't forget Venom ate Carnage without the symbiote even fighting it....
So 6-1....

Lol I didn't even count that. Too much of an ownage to be considered a fight.

Venom: you're my b1tch.
Carnage: yes, master!

lol, the scan of cage vs scorpion so over the top.

Originally posted by Estacado
Also don't forget Venom ate Carnage without the symbiote even fighting it....
So 6-1....

That from Minimum Carnage?

Cant remember the comic tbh...

Originally posted by SamZED
Cage beat Sabertooth?

He's talking about Creel, not Creed. Absorbing Man.

Originally posted by SamZED
Also Gargan is dead now so doesnt matter.

Really?

Originally posted by Kazenji
That from Minimum Carnage? I know it's called "Venom triumphant". The story takes place after Venom beats up Carnage in a court but spares his life. They couldn't have thought of a better way to put this whole "Carnage > Venom and Spidey" nonsense to rest. I'll post the scan later (pretty sure i already havein Venom's respect thread) but it basically goes like this - Venom breaks into Cassidy's cell telling him he's sick of him. Cletus doesn't even make an attempt to fight back, he calls for guards with sonic guns, Venom effortless kills them all freaking Cassidy even more. Brock then rips the Carnage symbiote off Cassidy while Cletus begs him to spare his life.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He's talking about Creel, not Creed. Absorbing Man.
Ah got it. I was surprised how could i miss it.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Really? Well most likely, did you read ASM 700?

Originally posted by SamZED
Ah got it. I was surprised how could i miss it.

Shame on you, Wolverine villains go toe to toe with beings like Galactus and FP Tyrant, not some pussies like Janithor and his green persecutor.

Originally posted by SamZED
Well most likely, did you read ASM 700?

No. Only seen the full scene of Parker's death posted by guy... it made me a bit sad even, Ock pummeling him mercilessly

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Shame on you, Wolverine villains go toe to toe with beings like Galactus and FP Tyrant, not some pussies like Janithor and his green persecutor.
How dare you dis the herald of Lord Rand?

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

No. Only seen the full scene of Parker's death posted by guy... it made me a bit sad even, Ock pummeling him mercilessly

Im not sure Gargsn is dead i just assumed. You know how Pete holds back fighting his opponents because hes affraid he might kill them? Well Ock doesnt have that problem. Took Gargan's jaw clean off with a punch.

Wolverine tore off Wrecker's jaw (well, technically he sliced through it, but you know what I mean) and he's still around. I hope Mac survives, too.

I'm not sure that should've happened to Gargan... didn't Parker say to one of his clones that throwing a full-power punch at him would result in breaking his hand? You know the incident I'm talking about, perhaps you can clear it up. Gargan has similar durability, better even.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Wolverine tore off Wrecker's jaw (well, technically he sliced through it, but you know what I mean) and he's still around. I hope Mac survives, too.

I'm not sure that should've happened to Gargan... didn't Parker say to one of his clones that throwing a full-power punch at him would result in breaking his hand? You know the incident I'm talking about, perhaps you can clear it up. Gargan has similar durability, better even. Oh im sure Gargan will be back eventually, just saying he might be dead at this point. Wreckers powers are magical so its a bit different i guess.

Tbh cant remember that instance but i wouldnt take that statement too seriously. Parker tends to overhype his enemie's strength, durability etc like 10% of his rogues are "as strong as Hulk" and guys like Tombstone "is like a brick wall" yet he's oneshotted him before. Remember how he punched out GG while still pulling his punch? Taking Gargans jaw with a punch is impressive but wouldnt call it a high end feat compared to few others.

This guy wins:

http://blog.newsok.com/nerdage/files/2009/03/wolverine_71_secondprintingvariant.jpg

V-Rex was pretty fun.

Gargan isn't dead, smething similar happened to Smythe a few issues later he was just shown to be in a supervillan prison. The same will probably happen here.

I think Smythe's jaw was intact.

His throat was bitten out by Jameson who was turned into a Spider IIRC.

Wait wa? When did that happen? Thought you were talking about the recent story where Smythe killed his wife and Pete koed him or am i forgetting some old story.

Originally posted by SamZED
Wait wa? When did that happen? Thought you were talking about the recent story where Smythe killed his wife and Pete koed him or am i forgetting some old story. After that he was in prison, then during Spider-Island they wanted something from him can't recall what when he was in front of Jameson, Jameson tranformed into a Spider and attacked him.

Originally posted by SamZED
Oh im sure Gargan will be back eventually, just saying he might be dead at this point. Wreckers powers are magical so its a bit different i guess.

Tbh cant remember that instance but i wouldnt take that statement too seriously. Parker tends to overhype his enemie's strength, durability etc like 10% of his rogues are "as strong as Hulk" and guys like Tombstone "is like a brick wall" yet he's oneshotted him before. Remember how he punched out GG while still pulling his punch? Taking Gargans jaw with a punch is impressive but wouldnt call it a high end feat compared to few others.

Asgardian-like beings are all "magical", but lesser blows have slain them.

OK, but how is that relevant? In that incident with clone he overhyped his own durability then, it seems

Generally his strength is higher than his durability, but he still shouldn't be able to do that to guys in his power tier (scorp is actually a little above).

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Asgardian-like beings are all "magical", but lesser blows have slain them.

OK, but how is that relevant? In that incident with clone he overhyped his own durability then, it seems

Generally his strength is higher than his durability, but he still shouldn't be able to do that to guys in his power tier (scorp is actually a little above). The Wrecker is no some fodder asgardian, besides iirc Wolverne didnt hurt him all that bad, only several deep cuts and it is not the same as getting your jaw punched clean off.

I dont remember that instance so cant say anything for sure. That said cant think of a reason to believe that Spider-man should break his hand punching his own clone.

Why not? Because it wouldnt make sense relatively to ordinary humans? Spider-man was always said to hold back even when fighting super villains. Remember how he sent Scorpion flying through the roof knocking him the F out with an uppercought? If THAT was a held back punch I dont have a problem with what Spider Ock did. Then there are feats like punching through Iron Man armor etc Scorpion is not in his weight class anyway. Even Ock commented that Pete has never used his body's full potential, said something like "he must've been holding back all these years" and thats coming from a guy who's been fighting SM for years and watched him fight other supervillains including Scorpion.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
After that he was in prison, then during Spider-Island they wanted something from him can't recall what when he was in front of Jameson, Jameson tranformed into a Spider and attacked him. Oh iforgot about that thanx. Smythe is basically a cyborg though

Originally posted by SamZED
Oh iforgot about that thanx. Smythe is basically a cyborg though Nah Smythe still has his human shit, it's the same with scorpion he just can't live without the technical parts anymore they keep them alive, but that doesn't mean he can live without his human parts.

IIRC they even called the medics after the attack.

Originally posted by SamZED
The Wrecker is no some fodder asgardian, besides iirc Wolverne didnt hurt him all that bad, only several deep cuts and it is not the same as getting your jaw punched clean off.

I dont remember that instance so cant say anything for sure. That said cant think of a reason to believe that Spider-man should break his hand punching his own clone.

Why not? Because it wouldnt make sense relatively to ordinary humans? Spider-man was always said to hold back even when fighting super villains. Remember how he sent Scorpion flying through the roof knocking him the F out with an uppercought? If THAT was a held back punch I dont have a problem with what Spider Ock did. Then there are feats like punching through Iron Man armor etc Scorpion is not in his weight class anyway. Even Ock commented that Pete has never used his body's full potential, said something like "he must've been holding back all these years" and thats coming from a guy who's been fighting SM for years and watched him fight other supervillains including Scorpion.

He is worse actually when you look at his near Gargan/Rhino lv jobbing "feats".

Wolverine injured him really bad in his own series, not New Avengers. Jaw basically sliced in pieces.

You misunderstood, I wasn't clear enough (thought you were familiar with that scene, my bad). A clone punched Parker and Peter revealed to him that if he hadn't rolled with that punch, he (clone) would've broken his hand.

It doesn't make sense because Scorpion is his physical superior, always has been. Stronger. Tougher. Mega-durable armor that at least partially covers his jaw should be a huge help, too.

He punched through a mask that he ripped off, no big feat if it got powered down. Armor's durability depends on being whole and fully operational (there are some issues that elaborate on that). So tearing it off is a feat, damaging it later is not. And Parker written by JMS was at his absolute peak.

Anyway, back to punching off Mac's jaw. Using "real life logic" it shouldn't have happened, but comic characters are often portrayed with greater strength than durability (as ridiculous as it is), so I guess it's nothing unusual... even though I'm shaking my head at it.

Not sure if you have seen the scan

http://picload.org/image/dwwclad/holdsbackasmv170.jpg

I haven't. Thanks.

Looks like he did it with a hook... which makes no sense since sides of his jaw ARE armored. So I don't know what Otto is babbling about

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
He is worse actually when you look at his near Gargan/Rhino lv jobbing "feats".

Wolverine injured him really bad in his own series, not New Avengers. Jaw basically sliced in pieces.

You misunderstood, I wasn't clear enough (thought you were familiar with that scene, my bad). A clone punched Parker and Peter revealed to him that if he hadn't rolled with that punch, he (clone) would've broken his hand.

It doesn't make sense because Scorpion is his physical superior, always has been. Stronger. Tougher. Mega-durable armor that at least partially covers his jaw should be a huge help, too.

He punched through a mask that he ripped off, no big feat if it got powered down. Armor's durability depends on being whole and fully operational (there are some issues that elaborate on that). So tearing it off is a feat, damaging it later is not. And Parker written by JMS was at his absolute peak.

Anyway, back to punching off Mac's jaw. Using "real life logic" it shouldn't have happened, but comic characters are often portrayed with greater strength than durability (as ridiculous as it is), so I guess it's nothing unusual... even though I'm shaking my head at it. Those are low showings imo, dont remember that other time, thought you were talking about the NA.

Ah THAT clone. Iirc they were poorely executed amobinations so Parker mightve been telling the truth. Thought you were talking about Kain or at least Ben Reiley.

Scorpion is not stronger nor faster or more durable (minus the armor). He was meant to be originally I guess but it didnt last. Gargan never displayed anything on the level of CIS off Parker. If anything it was made clear that CIS is one thing stopping Spider-man from destroying him.

Iron Man armor is still Iron Man armor and is insanely durable. Not to mention Pete has damaged his armor on few other occasions as well when it was operational. Do you see Gargan pulling most of Spider-man's speed/strength feats?

We dont even know HOW durable Gargan is without the armor and it was made clear Ock punched the unprotected part (which seemed difficult using RL logic but like you said - its comics) so im ok with it.

Originally posted by SamZED
Those are low showings imo, dont remember that other time, thought you were talking about the NA.

Ah THAT clone. Iirc they were poorely executed amobinations so Parker mightve been telling the truth. Thought you were talking about Kain or at least Ben Reiley.

Scorpion is not stronger nor faster or more durable (minus the armor). He was meant to be originally I guess but it didnt last. Gargan never displayed anything on the level of CIS off Parker. If anything it was made clear that CIS is one thing stopping Spider-man from destroying him.

Iron Man armor is still Iron Man armor and is insanely durable. Not to mention Pete has damaged his armor on few other occasions as well when it was operational. Do you see Gargan pulling most of Spider-man's speed/strength feats?

We dont even know HOW durable Gargan is without the armor and it was made clear Ock punched the unprotected part (which seemed difficult using RL logic but like you said - its comics) so im ok with it.

In the book that showed his typical week.

OK, that could explain it, I guess.

Spiderman kept beating him because of the superior skill/experience/smarts, Spider-Sense and the webs. Handbooks and cartoons always had Scorp as his physical superior like it was intended from the beginning, he's had some moments in comics too. But of course as a classic villain he always found a way to lose.

IM's armor is a titanium/gold mix (most often that is), it needs to be powered up and/or have a personal forcefield on to withstand serious attacks. But like I said he did manage to tear the mask off... only other incident I know is the black suit one (reeks of PIS).

If he wanted to punch the unprotected part, he should've done it with a straight punch and smashed it. "Taking it clean off" with a hook required breaking through his armor. Artist even contradicts Slott by showing us some flying pieces of shattered armor.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
In the book that showed his typical week.

OK, that could explain it, I guess.

Spiderman kept beating him because of the superior skill/experience/smarts, Spider-Sense and the webs. Handbooks and cartoons always had Scorp as his physical superior like it was intended from the beginning, he's had some moments in comics too. But of course as a classic villain he always found a way to lose.

IM's armor is a titanium/gold mix (most often that is), it needs to be powered up and/or have a personal forcefield on to withstand serious attacks. But like I said he did manage to tear the mask off... only other incident I know is the black suit one (reeks of PIS).

If he wanted to punch the unprotected part, he should've done it with a straight punch and smashed it. "Taking it clean off" with a hook required breaking through his armor. Artist even contradicts Slott by showing us some flying pieces of shattered armor.
In TAS Kingpin was >>>> Rhino physically as for handbooks.. You know...

I agree Scorpion had his moments but at this point its clear he's no match for Spider-man. And its not just Slott. Dont recall pieces of armor flying away but either way.. Slott intended it to be a direct hit into unprotected jaw. Even if the artist didnt manage to make that clear it was stated on-panel. So its just Gargan's own durability.

Iron suit Spider-man damaged the IM suit, then there was the future Iron Man. And now this so pretty consistent.

Originally posted by SamZED
In TAS Kingpin was >>>> Rhino physically as for handbooks.. You know...

I agree Scorpion had his moments but at this point its clear he's no match for Spider-man. And its not just Slott. Dont recall pieces of armor flying away but either way.. Slott intended it to be a direct hit into unprotected jaw. Even if the artist didnt manage to make that clear it was stated on-panel. So its just Gargan's own durability.

Iron suit Spider-man damaged the IM suit, then there was the future Iron Man. And now this so pretty consistent.

No, he wasn't. At least not decisively. He was tough as hell, though.

Parm just posted a scan on the previous page. I guess Slott needs to learn that Scorpion's jaw is armored on its sides...

Tony takes Hulk-lv punches. Pete can go home.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
No, he wasn't. At least not decisively. He was tough as hell, though.

Parm just posted a scan on the previous page. I guess Slott needs to learn that Scorpion's jaw is armored on its sides...

Tony takes Hulk-lv punches. Pete can go home.
I remember an episode where Fisk flipped a 40ton (or so) robot and another one where he nearly crushed Scorpion himself using his barehands.

That armor is durable but not unbreakable, Pete already broke Scorpion's claws last time they fought. So i assume even if the armor got in the way Gargan's jaw took most of the impact.

Tony's armor was damaged by Rhino. Not current, the classic one. So i think ill have to rely on the good old "it happened" and "nanana not listening!" tactics.

Originally posted by SamZED
I remember an episode where Fisk flipped a 40ton (or so) robot and another one where he nearly crushed Scorpion himself using his barehands.

That armor is durable but not unbreakable, Pete already broke Scorpion's claws last time they fought. So i assume even if the armor got in the way Gargan's jaw took most of the impact.

Tony's armor was damaged by Rhino. Not current, the classic one. So i think ill have to rely on the good old "it happened" and "nanana not listening!" tactics.

Possibly heavier... but to be fair, Miss America in Aunt May's age whose only power is flight knocked one down, too...

I remember that. Poor Gargan Fisk did that to Parker, too.

I'm ok with that explanation... but I still say it could've been handled better, like Otto breaking his hand and running away screaming

Classic Rhino fought Surfer