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Who wins?

Originally posted by Golgo13
Who wins? Trion and this is Spite

Why does Trion win and why is it spite?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why does Trion win and why is it spite?

Because SA Mangog didn't show vast strength (say beyond 2x that of Thor). Thus he couldn't even hurt classic Juggs.

Now Trion Juggs was punching through dimension and would wreck Mangog like a toy.

Originally posted by h1a8
Because SA Mangog didn't show vast strength (say beyond 2x that of Thor). Thus he couldn't even hurt classic Juggs.

Now Trion Juggs was punching through dimension and would wreck Mangog like a toy.

Mangog was able to overpower with his tail alone and was able to punch back Mjolnir. He's a lot stronger than Top Tier, more than enough to hurt and beat up classic Juggernaut.

How is that a reason? I don't care if he was punching through dimensional barriers, that isn't even necessarily above Herald level strength as we've seen.

You know what, I'm going to re-read the Trion story. Pretty sure I'm forgetting some relevant information. Bet it will be enlightening.

yeah go and do that, and dont make a fool out of your self again...

Still waiting:
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why does Trion win and why is it spite?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Mangog was able to overpower with his tail alone and was able to punch back Mjolnir. He's a lot stronger than Top Tier, more than enough to hurt and beat up classic Juggernaut.

How is that a reason? I don't care if he was punching through dimensional barriers, that isn't even necessarily above Herald level strength as we've seen.

You know what, I'm going to re-read the Trion story. Pretty sure I'm forgetting some relevant information. Bet it will be enlightening.

If his tail is .000001% more than Thor's strength then it will overpower Thor
I gave a generous 2x Thor's strength.

Hitting Mjolnir back requires equal strength of Thor (not more) and INCREDIBLE durability (which is why Mangog is formidable). I think in the story Thor said that he hit Mjolnir back at the strength of his own (Thor's) right arm or something like that.

Punching through dimensional barriers (with strength alone) is above Herald level strength by far.
It would take a plot device for a herald to do that (things outside of strength).

I always thought the whole punching through dimensional barrier thing a feat of his magical property. Like Dr. Strange able to open dimensional barrier using his magic...?? I could be wrong but i never really consider it a strength feat. It just wouldn't make sense (lol...even in comic standard).

Meh, I've never understood how feats like that can be quantified.

"Trion punched a hole through several dimensional walls!1!!111!" Okay, well exactly how much strength is required to do that? Because I sure as hell don't have a clue.

Originally posted by googol
yeah go and do that, and dont make a fool out of your self again...

lol. You let H1 of all people respond for you, then basically step out from behind to say "YEAH!" and Rage is making a fool of himself. Gotcha bro.

Didn't Trion Juggs gets wrassled by an Octopus, and was beaten by Xavier and Cain's mind?

also, lol at H1's calculalations.

Mangog is more powerful than Cyttorak himself.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Mangog is more powerful than Cyttorak himself.

......LOL

Originally posted by Horrificus
Mangog is more powerful than Cyttorak himself.

How so?

Originally posted by Horrificus
Mangog is more powerful than Cyttorak himself.
Not in Cyttorak's realm he isn't. Outside it, I can see a case being made for that.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Mangog is more powerful than Cyttorak himself.

Mangog is low-end Skyfather level. Cyttorak is about Elder God level...

Trion Juggs wins.

SA Mangog is a high skyfather.

Originally posted by Galan007
Meh, I've never understood how feats like that can be quantified.

"Trion punched a hole through several dimensional walls!1!!111!" Okay, well exactly how much strength is required to do that? Because I sure as hell don't have a clue.

agreed! it's a great feat...it's just not a strength feat, imo.

Originally posted by Golgo13
How so? with power

Originally posted by CosmicComet
......LOL u will have to come up with a better argument than that


I don't even use periods in my sentences when confronted with "lol's".

I've heard the Vishanti(all 3) would rather not piss Cyttorak off if they can help it, and he's the strongest of the Octessence.

Originally posted by h1a8
If his tail is .000001% more than Thor's strength then it will overpower Thor
I gave a generous 2x Thor's strength.

Hitting Mjolnir back requires equal strength of Thor (not more) and INCREDIBLE durability (which is why Mangog is formidable). I think in the story Thor said that he hit Mjolnir back at the strength of his own (Thor's) right arm or something like that.

Punching through dimensional barriers (with strength alone) is above Herald level strength by far.
It would take a plot device for a herald to do that (things outside of strength).

His tail easily manhandled Thor. That's a lot more than whatever nonsense number you're putting on it.

Based on what evidence did you come to the conclusion that one only needs to be as strong as Thor only to knock back Mjolnir as he did? Mangog's durability played a part in it, but he didn't tank it on his chest, he punched it back.

Why is punching through dimensions far above herald level strength? How did you reach this decision? Also, I've seen Thor and Hercules close a hole in a dimension with their fist, Thor break through dimensions with a blow etc.

Originally posted by Glorificus
Mangog is low-end Skyfather level. Cyttorak is about Elder God level...

Trion Juggs wins.

Could I have a scan or two proving Cytorrak to be Elder God level please?

Originally posted by googol
yeah go and do that, and dont make a fool out of your self again...

Don't worry, I will. 5 gets you 10 information is being forgotten that will end this debate right quick.

And what IS elder god level?

These beyond-herald levels are so unbelievably inconsistent.

back when Chaos King was Mikaboshi he practically one-shotted Zeus, yet Ares almost beat him.

Pluto is an elder god and Thor only needed a little bit of rage in him to completely trash Pluto and Ares.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His tail easily manhandled Thor. That's a lot more than whatever nonsense number you're putting on it.
How do you know it was easy? Did the scan say it was easy?
I didn't put any numbers into it. My point is that it only takes a little more force than another to overpower them. Not necessarily a vast amount more.



To be honest it takes less force to hit something back. Think of baseball. A pitcher can be stronger than a hitter. Yet the hitter can hit the ball back with one arm on the bat. I'm giving Mangog the benefit of the doubt and saying that he is roughly 2x as strong as Thor (although Thor admitted that he hit Mjolnir back with the strength EQUAL to his own right arm).

Bottom line Mangog never showed vast strength above a herald. Biggest strength feat from him is overpowering Thor with his tail and hitting Mjolnir back. But Mangog failed to ko Thor after many hits. What does that tell you? Not that impressive IMO.

Yet you have no problem proving Odin's strength when he one shot Ulik while weakened. But when Mangog can't one shot or several shot a herald then he still far stronger than a herald?


I said without a plot device. When Thor and Hercules did it the dimension was there in their face out in the open. We don't know how much strength it took to punch it close. Thing could have helped punched the thing closed for all we know. The dimension was already there to be punched. I'm referring to punching the thin air (no visible dimension present) and phucking affecting dimensions. Like if I were to punch in the natural air right now in the room I'm in. Could I, with strength alone, affect dimensions?




The fact that he gives a being (Cain) durability beyond a skyfather with only a portion of his power proves he is at least Elder God level. I don't think a skyfather can laugh off the Godblast do you?

Originally posted by curryman
And what IS elder god level?

These beyond-herald levels are so unbelievably inconsistent.

back when Chaos King was Mikaboshi he practically one-shotted Zeus, yet Ares almost beat him.
+1


Just a quick correction here. Pluto/Hades isn't an Elder God, not even close. He's a Death God, like Hela. So while powerful, he's not Elder level.

Sorry Rage but I am giving this to Trion.

if i recall correctly trion juggs has the 100% of cyttoraks power and cyttorak would whoop up on mangog

Originally posted by h1a8
How do you know it was easy? Did the scan say it was easy?
I didn't put any numbers into it. My point is that it only takes a little more force than another to overpower them. Not necessarily a vast amount more.



To be honest it takes less force to hit something back. Think of baseball. A pitcher can be stronger than a hitter. Yet the hitter can hit the ball back with one arm on the bat. I'm giving Mangog the benefit of the doubt and saying that he is roughly 2x as strong as Thor (although Thor admitted that he hit Mjolnir back with the strength EQUAL to his own right arm).

Bottom line Mangog never showed vast strength above a herald. Biggest strength feat from him is overpowering Thor with his tail and hitting Mjolnir back. But Mangog failed to ko Thor after many hits. What does that tell you? Not that impressive IMO.

Yet you have no problem proving Odin's strength when he one shot Ulik while weakened. But when Mangog can't one shot or several shot a herald then he still far stronger than a herald?


I said without a plot device. When Thor and Hercules did it the dimension was there in their face out in the open. We don't know how much strength it took to punch it close. Thing could have helped punched the thing closed for all we know. The dimension was already there to be punched. I'm referring to punching the thin air (no visible dimension present) and phucking affecting dimensions. Like if I were to punch in the natural air right now in the room I'm in. Could I, with strength alone, affect dimensions?




The fact that he gives a being (Cain) durability beyond a skyfather with only a portion of his power proves he is at least Elder God level. I don't think a skyfather can laugh off the Godblast do you? Everything you say is wrong. Literally. You are like some form of "Forum-Bizarro". Except, you have no power or strength or redeeming characteristics.

I have crushed you over and over, in thread after thread, posting entire story-lines worth of scans and comments that negate your posts.

You simply move onto the next thread and start all over again.

If anybody is taking any of h1's words seriously, I suggest that you do some searches including our usernames with Mangog. You will see what I mean.

Against a full-power Mangog of the Silver Age, Thor was completely helpless and unable to effect Mangog in any way. He was knocked out many times. Not one, or two times. Many times. Usually with one strike from Mangog.

Odin was terrified of Mangog and it was stated that he could not defeat Mangog in combat again and again, by Odin and several other characters. Odin stated that Mangog could NOT be defeated in combat, period. Odin, the same guy that didn't even fear Galactus. Galactus, who is above Cyttorak.

The only way SA Mangog could be defeated involved cutting him off from his power source, or reversing the process that created him. NEVER through combat. He was never even seen to be harmed in ANY way during all three of his first appearances.

The list of details goes on and on.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Everything you say is wrong. Literally. You are like some form of "Forum-Bizarro". Except, you have no power or strength or redeeming characteristics.

I have crushed you over and over, in thread after thread, posting entire story-lines worth of scans and comments that negate your posts.

You simply move onto the next thread and start all over again.

If anybody is taking any of h1's words seriously, I suggest that you do some searches including our usernames with Mangog. You will see what I mean.

Against a full-power Mangog of the Silver Age, Thor was completely helpless and unable to effect Mangog in any way. He was knocked out many times. Not one, or two times. Many times. Usually with one strike from Mangog.

Odin was terrified of Mangog and it was stated that he could not defeat Mangog in combat again and again, by Odin and several other characters. Odin stated that Mangog could NOT be defeated in combat, period. Odin, the same guy that didn't even fear Galactus. Galactus, who is above Cyttorak.

The only way SA Mangog could be defeated involved cutting him off from his power source, or reversing the process that created him. NEVER through combat. He was never even seen to be harmed in ANY way during all three of his first appearances.

The list of details goes on and on. Opposite really. I crushed you everytime. You would show a scan I would refute it with utmost ease.

I'm arguing strength not durability. Mangog has no great strength.
SA Mangog has never koed Thor, he failed to ko Thor several times as a matter of fact. Where do you get your facts from?

Odin being so called terrified is worthless at the light of how Mangog was performing. That's like Superman being afraid of Aquaman. Yet Odin easily defeated Mangog.

Doesn't matter as durabilty isn't going to make him win. Mangog's offensive power is pathetic and couldn't even scratch Classic Juggs.
Odin can defeat Mangog, so can Galactus, so can LT. He is defeatable.

Originally posted by Galan007
Meh, I've never understood how feats like that can be quantified.

"Trion punched a hole through several dimensional walls!1!!111!" Okay, well exactly how much strength is required to do that? Because I sure as hell don't have a clue.

Well I was watching Michio Kaku's show once and he said something about creating black holes and you would have to melt space. cant remember the temperature but it was something very high. so if you can get the temperature for melting space then the force a punch would have to be for the friction of the punch to equal that temperature. then add that for each dimension and that would equal the power of the punch. I think.

Originally posted by zopzop

+1


Just a quick correction here. Pluto/Hades isn't an Elder God, not even close. He's a Death God, like Hela. So while powerful, he's not Elder level.

They were there when Demogorge gobbled up all the other elder gods?

Originally posted by h1a8
Opposite really. I crushed you everytime. You would show a scan I would refute it with utmost ease.

I'm arguing strength not durability. Mangog has no great strength.
SA Mangog has never koed Thor, he failed to ko Thor several times as a matter of fact. Where do you get your facts from?

Odin being so called terrified is worthless at the light of how Mangog was performing. That's like Superman being afraid of Aquaman. Yet Odin easily defeated Mangog.

Doesn't matter as durabilty isn't going to make him win. Mangog's offensive power is pathetic and couldn't even scratch Classic Juggs.
Odin can defeat Mangog, so can Galactus, so can LT. He is defeatable. Crushed me?! Holy Dementia!
Mangog has never ko'd Thor?

OK. This is it, you funny little guy.

I will be posting some scans. They will show how misled you are. After that, you should quietly crawl away from all Mangog-related threads.

I think this one would most likely be an eternal stalemate. If I had to put money on one I would go with Trion.

As for H1 I don`t think anyone takes him seriously. Not even his mom.

Originally posted by curryman
They were there when Demogorge gobbled up all the other elder gods?
No, those were two separate instances. The Elder Gods are older (stupid Marvel half retcons notwithstanding) than all the other Gods.

The Elder God purge took place billions of years before the Death Gods incident.

Originally posted by h1a8


Odin being so called terrified is worthless at the light of how Mangog was performing. That's like Superman being afraid of Aquaman.





mhmm

Originally posted by Damborgson
SA Mangog is a high skyfather.

No he isn't.
He's not even a skyfather.
He's a trans at most.
He has the durability of a skyfather but his offensive power sucks.
Lastly, one can't be skyfather status if they can be banished against their will by another Skyfather or below being.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
mhmm

lol I'm referring to pre DCNU Superman.

Even so, Superman being afraid of Aquaman (not true) doesn't mean Aquaman could own or stalemate Superman.

I'm pretty sure Superman would beat Aquaman 10/10

and hence my point.

Fear isn't a feat when it is contradicted by on panel showings.

Originally posted by Mshinu
I think this one would most likely be an eternal stalemate. If I had to put money on one I would go with Trion.

As for H1 I don`t think anyone takes him seriously. Not even his mom.
Take me seriously?
Why would I assume Mangog can harm even Classic Juggs when he couldn't even ko Thor after all of their battles?

Odin respecting Mangog contradicts Mangog's power output shown.

We have flipped bridges koing Asgardians for crying out loud (like the gas station koing Superman). We have Thor falling off Mangog's head to the ground and getting hurt.
We have a weakened Odin fighting like a powerless old man on a horse with a sword. Nothing was shown to display Mangog's power output. We never see Mangog tank a full power blast of Odin, we never see Odin get the destroyer.
But rather we see Odin with ease dispatch of Mangog at least twice when Odin finally gains some sense and starts acting like a skyfather.

All Mangog shown was above herald level durability.
Mangog doesn't have infinite durability (no limits fallacy) as that would mean LT couldn't kill him with a blast.
We base durability off what a character has tanked, and how they tanked it. Mangog has never tanked something on the magnitude of someone punching through dimensions.

My gut feeling says Mangog will get wrecked if hit by those punches.

Communication is impossible. You do not speak, you babble.

SA Mangog was High Sky Father level, it takes high Sky Father to beat a high Sky Father in their domain, which Mangog did to SA Odin, and KO Thor numerous times during that arc.


SA Mangog = Sky Father level in power
Current Mangog= mid Trans


To say other wise is banality ignorance.

Originally posted by the Darkone
SA Mangog was High Sky Father level, it takes high Sky Father to beat a high Sky Father in their domain, which Mangog did to SA Odin, and KO Thor numerous times during that arc.


SA Mangog = Sky Father level in power
Current Mangog= mid Trans


To say other wise is banality ignorance.

Let me just tell you something. I have all the SA Mangog appearances and have read through them several times. That's means you can't lie without looking bad.

In no scene did Mangog EVER ko Thor. He failed to ko Thor in all that phucking time they were fighting.
Mangog didn't beat a normal Odin ever. Mangog never tanked a normal Odin blast either. But's that is just durability talk.

Mangog has high herald level offensive power (nothing more)
Mangog has skyfather level durability (nothing more)

Thus SA Mangog is Trans at best.
Trion would wreck him with punches alone.

trion jugs has 100% of cytoraks power he wrecks mangog this is just destruction

I thought Trion Juggernaut was just using the full capacity of the Cyttorak gem, which was at max 12% of Cyttorak's power, and not using all of Cyttorak's power.

Trion was so tall the Xmen appeared as ants to him. How is Mangog winning this? Punching his ankles? This doesn't include the large increase in strength he received. It was stated that if Trion kept pursuing in punching through dimensions, he would have destroyed "everything". Mangog dies but probably damage Trion left pinky toe during the process.

Originally posted by h1a8
Let me just tell you something. I have all the SA Mangog appearances and have read through them several times. That's means you can't lie without looking bad.

In no scene did Mangog EVER ko Thor. He failed to ko Thor in all that phucking time they were fighting.
Mangog didn't beat a normal Odin ever. Mangog never tanked a normal Odin blast either. But's that is just durability talk.

Mangog has high herald level offensive power (nothing more)
Mangog has skyfather level durability (nothing more)

Thus SA Mangog is Trans at best.
Trion would wreck him with punches alone.

Let me tell you some thing troll,I don't give a damn about your so called collection appearances of Mangog, you still cant comprehended troll.


No one cares what you think, plus I wasn't talking too you if I was you would know troll baby. Now go drink a tall glass of STFU, troll baby!!!

Originally posted by CortSether
I thought Trion Juggernaut was just using the full capacity of the Cyttorak gem, which was at max 12% of Cyttorak's power, and not using all of Cyttorak's power.

That was my understanding, SA Mangog was damn near Galactus level going by what he was capable of. SA Mangog over powered SA Odin was almost Galactus equal, that alone should tell us something how powerful Mangog was when he defeated Odin in Asgard. Trion would be just feeding SA Mangog since he feeds on physical contact and hate.

Originally posted by zopzop
No, those were two separate instances. The Elder Gods are older (stupid Marvel half retcons notwithstanding) than all the other Gods.

The Elder God purge took place billions of years before the Death Gods incident.

I'm pretty certain Set was there?

I'm possibly just jumbling up the names because the story was told at the death god meeting...

Originally posted by h1a8
Let me just tell you something. I have all the SA Mangog appearances and have read through them several times. That's means you can't lie without looking bad.

In no scene did Mangog EVER ko Thor. He failed to ko Thor in all that phucking time they were fighting.
Mangog didn't beat a normal Odin ever. Mangog never tanked a normal Odin blast either. But's that is just durability talk.

Mangog has high herald level offensive power (nothing more)
Mangog has skyfather level durability (nothing more)

Thus SA Mangog is Trans at best.
Trion would wreck him with punches alone. Silence!! Clownish Oaf of Undetermined Gender!!



Mangog Knocks Thor Out #1:
Thor #156, Page 3- Mangog knocks Thor out by THROWING him down.
Thor #156, Page 8- Thor wakes up 5 pages later, basically saying, "Wha Tha Fu??", while Loki's minions are saying he should have stepped in when Thor got rocked.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Mangog%20KO%20Thor/th_MangogKOThor1aThor156-03_zps7b1bee9d.jpghttp://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Mangog%20KO%20Thor/th_MangogKOThor1bThor156-08_zps4db36881.jpg



Mangog Knocks Thor Out #2:
Thor #157, Page 10- Mangog crushes Thor's arm with one claw and throws him down so hard, it knocks him out. (For the rest of the story, Thor is a badly injured arm. How often has THAT happened?) Mangog is about to kill Thor, but is distracted.
Thor #157, Page 11- Balder drags Thor's unconscious body out of the fight. Thor looked injured in the previous panel, but is clearly limp as Balder drags him away.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Mangog%20KO%20Thor/th_MangogKOThor2aThor157-10_zpsc5ed50a3.jpghttp://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Mangog%20KO%20Thor/th_MangogKOThor2bThor157-11_zps8c2237d7.jpg



Mangog Knocks Thor Out #3:
Thor #198, Page 6- Mangog strikes/throws Thor so hard, he is knocked out again.
Thor #198, Page 8- Thor is shown unconscious while Odin ineffectually strikes Mangog, is grabbed and tossed away. I, personally, have never seen any opponent do this to Odin, full-powered or weakened.
Thor #198, Page 12- Thor wakes up from his KO, 6 pages later, backed up by narration.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Mangog%20KO%20Thor/th_MangogKOThor3aThor198-06_zps9cfc57b8.jpghttp://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Mangog%20KO%20Thor/th_MangogKOThor3bThor198-08_zpsfb994318.jpghttp://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Mangog%20KO%20Thor/th_MangogKOThor3cThor198-12_zps973f4d6b.jpg



Mangog as Odin, Knocks Thor Out #4:
Thor #250, Page 6- In this story, Mangog is disguised as Odin while Odin has disappeared. Mangog uses a blast to knock Thor out this time.
Thor #250, Page 7- Thor is shown, unconscious, being carried away.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Mangog%20KO%20Thor/th_MangogasOdinKOThor4aThor250-06_zps75d3be3c.jpghttp://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q253/ArealSTUPIguy/Mangog%20KO%20Thor/th_MangogasOdinKOThor4bThor250-07_zpsa33a3698.jpg



I must thank you, h1... whatever. You have helped me discover something of Mangog.

It would seem that we have a new, until now, undiscovered/unclassified attack, akin to the fabled "Thunderclap" of Hulk fame.

The attack used by Mangog in knocking Thor out 3 times, is also used during his first 3 appearances to knock out the entire Asgardian Army and bring a Full-Power Odin to the point of surrender and then knock out a less-than full-power Odin.

Mangog seems to be able to throw his opponents, throw geography, throw armies, etc, resulting in High-End KO's! He flips them and throws them, up and down. And, they end up unconscious.

Originally posted by curryman
I'm pretty certain Set was there?

I'm possibly just jumbling up the names because the story was told at the death god meeting...


Pluto
Seth
Hela
Mesphisto
Lilith
etc are death gods low Sky Fathers level beings, these are the ones and other that got rage stomp by Atum/Demogorge.

as where Set, Chthon, Belezaar, Gaea, Oshtur, Agammotto, Atum The God Eater/Demogorge, Rune King Thor and SA Odin

Set, Chthon are the two that ran away when Atum was killing the fallen Elder gods that turned demons and restore order on Earth.

Seriously though, Mangog has knocked out Thor several times and that trend continued into the Jurgens era (he was beaten pretty brutally by Mangog even then).

Anyone arguing against that is arguing against basic fact.

That being said, this fight seems more like a stalemate. Silver Age Mangog was a beast and did appear to fight on sky father level.

Originally posted by CortSether
I thought Trion Juggernaut was just using the full capacity of the Cyttorak gem, which was at max 12% of Cyttorak's power, and not using all of Cyttorak's power.
Iirc, he was completely possessed by Cyttorak by the time he reached the Trions. So it's not a completely invalid idea that he would have the full power of Cyttorak as well.

Yup Trion was pretty much Cyttorak possessed Juggernaut.

from the reading ive done i believe he had the full power of cyttorak at that time i forget exactly how but it was a screw up some how

Originally posted by the Darkone
That was my understanding, SA Mangog was damn near Galactus level going by what he was capable of. SA Mangog over powered SA Odin was almost Galactus equal, that alone should tell us something how powerful Mangog was when he defeated Odin in Asgard. Trion would be just feeding SA Mangog since he feeds on physical contact and hate.

How was SA Mangog Galactus equal?
He had no power output.
We prove things by feats.

SA Mangog never overpowered or beat a non weakened SA Odin.

If Mangog is so powerful then why do you have to result to lies?
That's worst than trolling.

Originally posted by deathlife
Seriously though, Mangog has knocked out Thor several times and that trend continued into the Jurgens era (he was beaten pretty brutally by Mangog even then).

Anyone arguing against that is arguing against basic fact.

That being said, this fight seems more like a stalemate. Silver Age Mangog was a beast and did appear to fight on sky father level. Did you even read the Thor comics? I have them. Mangog has never koed Thor. They battled many times over.
His power output sucks. Even Jurgens Mangog has hit Thor literally hundreds of times (the recorder shows this) and still wasn't able to ko Thor.

Originally posted by h1a8
Did you even read the Thor comics? I have them. Mangog has never koed Thor. They battled many times over.
His power output sucks. Even Jurgens Mangog has hit Thor literally hundreds of times (the recorder shows this) and still wasn't able to ko Thor. Dude. Is there something wrong with you? Seriously.
I just posted the scans of Thor being KO'd by Mangog. Page Up.

Then, you really should not show up in these threads again after this.
You either blatantly lied, or have no idea what you are talking about. There is no 3rd option.

Originally posted by h1a8
How was SA Mangog Galactus equal?
He had no power output.
We prove things by feats.

SA Mangog never overpowered or beat a non weakened SA Odin.

If Mangog is so powerful then why do you have to result to lies?
That's worst than trolling.

STFU, no one is taking you seriously and you are making yourself foolish which is nothing new for a troll like!!

You cant accuse nobody of trolling, for you are the Father of it and no truth is in you!!!

Troll King

Originally posted by Horrificus
Dude. Is there something wrong with you? Seriously.
I just posted the scans of Thor being KO'd by Mangog. Page Up.

Then, you really should not show up in these threads again after this.
You either blatantly lied, or have no idea what you are talking about. There is no 3rd option.

That's what I'm saying, he distorts and blatantly lies to act like he knows what he is talking about.

He is trolling beyond belief and accuse others of doing it, where he is the main one doing it. That's why he is on ignore list, just tried of his BS ways and he is getting worse, he is a troll on steroids.

Originally posted by h1a8
Did you even read the Thor comics? I have them. Mangog has never koed Thor. They battled many times over.
His power output sucks. Even Jurgens Mangog has hit Thor literally hundreds of times (the recorder shows this) and still wasn't able to ko Thor.

Perhaps the problem is that H1 is confusing the MODERN version of Mangog with the Silver Age version.

Jurgens, writer noted for books produced in the 80s and 90s, was writing for a time readers today might not know of, as his stories are, what 20 years old? Possibly 30?

Yet they are still not far enough ago to qualify as Marvel's Silver Age, which would have been comprised of the stories crafted in the 1960s and 70s.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
Perhaps the problem is that H1 is confusing the MODERN version of Mangog with the Silver Age version.

Jurgens, writer noted for books produced in the 80s and 90s, was writing for a time readers today might not know of, as his stories are, what 20 years old? Possibly 30?

Yet they are still not far enough ago to qualify as Marvel's Silver Age, which would have been comprised of the stories crafted in the 1960s and 70s.

He's not confuse!! He has been told so many times it's ridiclous.

Even Juggernaut without his forcefield has shown insane durability and invincibility. And people tying his invincibility into his forcefield is stupid.

Originally posted by Galan007
Meh, I've never understood how feats like that can be quantified.

"Trion punched a hole through several dimensional walls!1!!111!" Okay, well exactly how much strength is required to do that? Because I sure as hell don't have a clue.

Don't know myself, but the same tom ****ery goes on with Prime doing it. It's a meh feat for me.. for all we know it's just a matter of where people strike the barrier as opposed to it requring some OMGZORS Strength

Even Jurgens Mangog has pushed Thor's sh*T in... What's also unclear is how people are arguing Cy isn't an elder God? huh? he's been an elder God since the jump. Whether that means he'll beat SA Mangog is another matter, but he was certainly classified as such from his inception.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Even Jurgens Mangog has pushed Thor's sh*T in... What's also unclear is how people are arguing Cy isn't an elder God? huh? he's been an elder God since the jump. Whether that means he'll beat SA Mangog is another matter, but he was certainly classified as such from his inception.


hes def an elder god and he'd pwn mangog which is y trion jugg pwns mangog (being he had the full ability of cyttorak)

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
hes def an elder god and he'd pwn mangog which is y trion jugg pwns mangog (being he had the full ability of cyttorak)

There is no proof of Cyttorak being a Elder God, it's speculations. Elder God is just a title, granted that there are some are powerful most sky fathers. SA Mangog will make Trion work for it, hell Cyttorak would probably drop Cain and give his power too Mangog who would fulfill Cyttorak dream of a ultimate avatar

the point is trion had full ability of cyttorak and would wreck mangog with it

Originally posted by Horrificus
Silence!! Clownish Oaf of Undetermined Gender!!



Mangog Knocks Thor Out #1: Nope! Thor wasn't shown to be knocked out.

There's no knockout there. Thor wasn't shown unconscious. Try again.

Again, no knock out. Mangog didn't crush Thor's arm. Thor fell down and hurt his arm. Bad writing. The same writing that had Mangog flip up the bridge and have Asgardians koed from a simple fall. WTF.




I'll give you a ko there. But it doesn't help Mangog's case as Thor is koed by Mangog uplifting the ground and Thor falling a few feet (bad writing) and not Mangog hitting him.

I don't see Mangog or know the circumstances here. I have to read this story. So that I can make sure you are interpreting it correct.


That's called stupid writing. No way can a simple fall ko an Asgardian. I'm not going to accept that.

Odin (normal power) was never shown to ever attack Mangog.
Mangog never really koed Thor. The one scene where Thor is clearly shown unconscious was due to falling a few feet from the air. Mangog never hit him.
The other scene disguised as Odin, I have to read tonight when I get home.

Now you see that Mangog has shitty power output on average.

That arc had the worst durability I ever saw. Thor and the Asgardians were jobbing their asses off. And it's clear the writer only wanted a weakened Odin to engage Mangog. As Odin at normal power easily owned him.

Originally posted by h1a8
Did you even read the Thor comics? I have them. Mangog has never koed Thor. They battled many times over.
His power output sucks. Even Jurgens Mangog has hit Thor literally hundreds of times (the recorder shows this) and still wasn't able to ko Thor.

ive read the comics and the scans posted pretty much confirm this.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Pluto
Seth
Hela
Mesphisto
Lilith
etc are death gods low Sky Fathers level beings, these are the ones and other that got rage stomp by Atum/Demogorge.

as where Set, Chthon, Belezaar, Gaea, Oshtur, Agammotto, Atum The God Eater/Demogorge, Rune King Thor and SA Odin

Set, Chthon are the two that ran away when Atum was killing the fallen Elder gods that turned demons and restore order on Earth.

Must've mixed set and seth.

Originally posted by deathlife
ive read the comics and the scans posted pretty much confirm this.

We have Thor and Mangog battling many times.
Thor gets lifted a few feet in the air and falls to the ground and gets koed. This worst than the gas station koing Superman. Holds no water with me.
We also have Thor falling off Mangog's head to the ground and hurting his arm. WTF is that?

Asgardians get lifted in the air and falls from a height of about 30ft and get koed.

Odin was acting like he has no powers and was trying to go to war with plain horses and swords. The whole arc stinked and portrayed the Asgardians more or less as human. You can't get around the falling to the ground from a few feet and getting koed. That's a human quality there.
But when Odin actually used his powers he one shotted Mangog.

So I change my statement to
Mangog has never koed Thor directly by hitting him. Even if Mangog was capable of koing Thor then so is any other herald.

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
the point is trion had full ability of cyttorak and would wreck mangog with it

SA Odin couldn't wreck SA Mangog, and SA Odin was considering at that time to be Galactus equal or a notch below give or take, speaks volume on how powerful SA Mangog. Too the point Odin had to teleport Asgard out it's own home dimension to another dimension to keep Mangog away from the Odin sword. SA Mangog was Sky Father level in power, he was taken everything Asgard had to offer, they couldn't even slow him down, they even used their most powerful weapon the Asgardian canon and Mangog tank that.

Too this day no one, I mean no one has ever manhandle Odin like the way Mangog did. And for all we know Cyttorak would be Sky Father level but just old as hell, until marvel starts writing stories we have no clue.

Stalemate at best!!

Originally posted by the Darkone
SA Odin couldn't wreck SA Mangog, and SA Odin was considering at that time to be Galactus equal or a notch below give or take, speaks volume on how powerful SA Mangog. Too the point Odin had to teleport Asgard out it's own home dimension to another dimension to keep Mangog away from the Odin sword. SA Mangog was Sky Father level in power, he was taken everything Asgard had to offer, they couldn't even slow him down, they even used their most powerful weapon the Asgardian canon and Mangog tank that.

Too this day no one, I mean no one has ever manhandle Odin like the way Mangog did. And for all we know Cyttorak would be Sky Father level but just old as hell, until marvel starts writing stories we have no clue.

Stalemate at best!!

So what's the better evidence
Implied power or shown power?
What if shown power contradicts implied power do we still go by implied power?

Originally posted by h1a8
So what's the better evidence
Implied power or shown power?
What if shown power contradicts implied power do we still go by implied power?

Am I talking to you, no!!


I don't waste my time with a troll like you

Originally posted by the Darkone
Am I talking to you, no!!


I don't waste my time with a troll like you

But you are being bias here Darkone. I'm not trying to troll you.

Was Odin at full power shown attacking Mangog? The most powerful being who attacked Mangog was Thor.
What happened when Odin actually attacked Mangog? Mangog was instantly defeated right?
It was stated on panel by Thor that Mangog was exaggerating his power. And Thor said that Odin easily beat him.

Mangog has physically struck Thor throughout their fights and not koed or killed Thor. This don't seem like skyfather level power to me.

Originally posted by h1a8
But you are being bias here Darkone. I'm not trying to troll you.

Was Odin at full power shown attacking Mangog? The most powerful being who attacked Mangog was Thor.
What happened when Odin actually attacked Mangog? Mangog was instantly defeated right?
It was stated on panel by Thor that Mangog was exaggerating his power. And Thor said that Odin easily beat him.

Mangog has physically struck Thor throughout their fights and not koed or killed Thor. This don't seem like skyfather level power to me.

You can't call nobody bias, you better look in the mirror first if it doesn't crack from your stupidity. Your the biggest low balling, trolling , bias king on here. People have schooled you some many times it's pathetic, you constantly down playing on panel proof and statements, and trying act like you know WTH you are talking about.

No one cares what you think, your bias and the biggest troll on here. Read some comics and try to comprehend.

Originally posted by the Darkone
You can't call nobody bias, you better look in the mirror first if it doesn't crack from your stupidity. Your the biggest low balling, trolling , bias king on here. People have schooled you some many times it's pathetic, you constantly down playing on panel proof and statements, and trying act like you know WTH you are talking about.

No one cares what you think, your bias and the biggest troll on here. Read some comics and try to comprehend. No problemo. He has just been pounded. His arguments are ridiculous and completely disregard the books themselves.

It's all posted here forever. His arguments boil down to the fact that he doesn't like what was put on the pages of the books.

End of story.

Originally posted by the Darkone
You can't call nobody bias, you better look in the mirror first if it doesn't crack from your stupidity. Your the biggest low balling, trolling , bias king on here. People have schooled you some many times it's pathetic, you constantly down playing on panel proof and statements, and trying act like you know WTH you are talking about.

No one cares what you think, your bias and the biggest troll on here. Read some comics and try to comprehend.

Name one feat I lowballed.

Originally posted by Horrificus
No problemo. He has just been pounded. His arguments are ridiculous and completely disregard the books themselves.

It's all posted here forever. His arguments boil down to the fact that he doesn't like what was put on the pages of the books.

End of story. Not really. You expect us to believe that Mangog is strong enough to damage Classic Juggs (whose vastly more durable than Thor).

You are willing to use stupid feats that show superhuman characters not getting touched by Mangog yet falling from a few feet and getting koed by the ground. And you don't see that is worst than Superman getting koed by a gas station. Yet it proves Mangog can damage Classic Juggs let alone Trion?

Originally posted by h1a8
Name one feat I lowballed.

Are you serious your going to play dumb,you are low balling SA Mangog right now. SA Mangog is a Sky Father level being who in turn defeated the most elite Sky Father in SA Odin, but you are telling everybody here that SA Manog is trans, he' not that powerful. If he wasn't that powerful than how he defeat a Sky Father level being in Odin. Trans beings can't even tickle Sky Fathers of Odin caliber, you down play Thor, Mangog, Thanos, hell any Marvel character that goes against a DC character.

You are troll nothing more, your the biggest bias , low balling member on here, what makes it worse you are acting like you know what you are talking about which makes twice as ignorant.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Are you serious your going to play dumb,you are low balling SA Mangog right now. SA Mangog is a Sky Father level being who in turn defeated the most elite Sky Father in SA Odin, but you are telling everybody here that SA Manog is trans, he' not that powerful. If he wasn't that powerful than how he defeat a Sky Father level being in Odin. Trans beings can't even tickle Sky Fathers of Odin caliber, you down play Thor, Mangog, Thanos, hell any Marvel character that goes against a DC character.

You are troll nothing more, your the biggest bias , low balling member on here, what makes it worse you are acting like you know what you are talking about which makes twice as ignorant.

I said name one feat I lowballed and not one character I lowballed.

READ CAREFULLY.

Mangog has never ever beat Odin (non weakened). What's worst lowballing or lying?

Mangog is trans simply because of his aweful offensive power and the fact that he can be bfred everytime. No Skyfather or above can be bfred. It's the minimum requirement to be at that level.

SA Mangog > Odin > Trion

Originally posted by h1a8
Not really. You expect us to believe that Mangog is strong enough to damage Classic Juggs (whose vastly more durable than Thor).

You are willing to use stupid feats that show superhuman characters not getting touched by Mangog yet falling from a few feet and getting koed by the ground. And you don't see that is worst than Superman getting koed by a gas station. Yet it proves Mangog can damage Classic Juggs let alone Trion? You don't really exist. I am sure of this.

I just ate some bad shrimp and got kicked in the balls.

You are simply a side-effect of dehydration due to uncontrollable bowel-movement and diarrhea.

Nobody could honestly be attempting the terrible arguments you are using.

Originally posted by carver9
Trion was so tall the Xmen appeared as ants to him. How is Mangog winning this? Punching his ankles? This doesn't include the large increase in strength he received. It was stated that if Trion kept pursuing in punching through dimensions, he would have destroyed "everything". Mangog dies but probably damage Trion left pinky toe during the process.
The key to power is height then? Good to know pym is at least a trans then. What are people gonna do? Punch his ankles?

Three times Juggernaut and Thor have fought. All three times Cain was physically overpowering him, and had to be BFR'd every single time for Thor to not lose the fight.

And Trion Juggs is a lot more powerful than the versions Thor fought.

Originally posted by KingD19
Three times Juggernaut and Thor have fought. All three times Cain was physically overpowering him, and had to be BFR'd every single time for Thor to not lose the fight.

And Trion Juggs is a lot more powerful than the versions Thor fought. Mangog "One Shotted" Thor several times and Odin twice.

In those appearances nothing ever even scratched him or stopped his forward progress. He was never even seen to strain in any way or reach any limitations.

On top of all this, Trion would simply feed Mangog with his hate and violence. Trion was not more powerful than Odin.

It wasn't even clear what Mangog was made of.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Mangog "One Shotted" Thor several times and Odin twice.

In those appearances nothing ever even scratched him or stopped his forward progress. He was never even seen to strain in any way or reach any limitations.

On top of all this, Trion would simply feed Mangog with his hate and violence. Trion was not more powerful than Odin.

It wasn't even clear what Mangog was made of.

Look at the nature of the one shot though. Thor falls a few feet from the air and gets koed by the ground? That's like Lex Luther hitting a button and causing a gas station to blow up to ko Superman while giving Lex all the credit of the ko.

Also there were even more times when Mangog didn't one shot Thor. Should we dismiss those times?

Mangog's rate of strength increase based off feeding on hate was almost non existent. He must have gain 1 ton of strength every hour of hate.

Dude Odin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Mangog.
Every time Odin engaged Mangog it was a one shot deal. Mangog only wrecked a weakened Odin. who cares? I would say that Superman is a lot stronger than Mangog, yet Superman can't really damage Juggs (forget Trion).

Originally posted by Horrificus
Mangog "One Shotted" Thor several times and Odin twice.

In those appearances nothing ever even scratched him or stopped his forward progress. He was never even seen to strain in any way or reach any limitations.

On top of all this, Trion would simply feed Mangog with his hate and violence. Trion was not more powerful than Odin.

It wasn't even clear what Mangog was made of.

Basically Trion would keep on feeding SA Mangog period. It's stalemate for now!

Originally posted by the Darkone
Basically Trion would keep on feeding SA Mangog period. It's stalemate for now!

Mangog's rate of strength increase based off feeding on hate was almost non existent. He must have gain 1 ton of strength every hour of hate.

Trion would wreck him before he gained sufficient strength to neutralize.

Originally posted by h1a8
Mangog's rate of strength increase based off feeding on hate was almost non existent. He must have gain 1 ton of strength every hour of hate.

Trion would wreck him before he gained sufficient strength to neutralize. All of your posts are based on opinion. I am basing my arguments on the books.

You have no case.

I was just wondering, what was the name of the event involving Trion Juggernaut, and is it available in paperback or hardcover?

Originally posted by h1a8
Mangog's rate of strength increase based off feeding on hate was almost non existent. He must have gain 1 ton of strength every hour of hate.

Trion would wreck him before he gained sufficient strength to neutralize. You are full of crap. Luckily, most of the members of this forum have seen the bazillion scans I have posted that prove you are a twist.

You, making it seem like Odin beat him in battle, is just dishonest and manipulative. SA Mangog was unbeatable, except for the old "cut him off from his power source" routine. The last time that backdoor ploy was used by an amp'd Odin, it killed Odin. And, even that never ended Mangog.

He was never harmed in combat. He defeated Odin and one shotted Thor. He shrugged off everything that was thrown at him. Him, ko'ing Thor by manhandling him and throwing him to the ground is a testament to his power.

Originally posted by h1a8
Mangog's rate of strength increase based off feeding on hate was almost non existent. He must have gain 1 ton of strength every hour of hate.

Trion would wreck him before he gained sufficient strength to neutralize. Your attempt at low-balling Mangog's "Hate-Feed" is bs too.
Mangog starts at a level above Classic Odin, and from there:



Yummy Hate for Mangog.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Your attempt at low-balling Mangog's "Hate-Feed" is bs too.
Mangog starts at a level above Classic Odin, and from there:



Yummy Hate for Mangog.

Classic Odin was weak as shit physical wise. I would place a high end Savage Hulk over him in strength. Even if Odin wasn't weak as shit then a full powered Odin was never shown to be physically overpowered by Mangog. Thus how do you know if Mangog was stronger than Odin? And don't give me a scan showing a weakened Odin.

On average I would give Mangog about 4x Thor's average strength.

You prize Mangog's strength level because of your argument of Odin respecting Mangog and not on feats or showings of strength.

Mangog wins

lol this is such spite someone hates mangog apparently

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
lol this is such spite someone hates mangog apparently yes, Trion shit stomps SA Mangog

lol

This is the furthest thing away from spite against SA Mangog.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
lol

This is the furthest thing away from spite against SA Mangog. Trion still Shits on him

Don't see how.

If anything, Juggernaut is just going to amp Mangog beyond his already Odin+ levels.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Don't see how.

If anything, Juggernaut is just going to amp Mangog beyond his already Odin+ levels. he was not going off hate. and by amping do you mean KTFO of him with one of his Reality breaking punches?

Originally posted by googol
he was not going off hate. and by amping do you mean KTFO of him with one of his Reality breaking punches?

Hate, anger, and aggressive feelings in general amped Mangog. Unless Cain is all sunshine and puppy dog tails, Mangog will only grow stronger in the process.

"Breaking reality" and "tearing through dimensions", while nice, don't equate into damage dealt. Mjolnir can tear through dimensions and reverberate though multiple planes of reality. Doesn't mean it absolutely decimates things upon contact. Certainly not in Mangog's case.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Hate, anger, and aggressive feelings in general amped Mangog. Unless Cain is all sunshine and puppy dog tails, Mangog will only grow stronger in the process.

"Breaking reality" and "tearing through dimensions", while nice, don't equate into damage dealt. Mjolnir can tear through dimensions and reverberate though multiple planes of reality. Doesn't mean it absolutely decimates things upon contact. Certainly not in Mangog's case.

Yes but what is the rate of Mangog's increase? We must go by comics. Mangog, although get's stronger by hate, doesn't make great jumps per minute. IMO, I say his speed of increase is very slow. For the sake of argument, let's give Mangog 10 tons of extra power per minute. This is faster than he's shown.

Now Thor struck an object (or that creature) and it was said to tear reality (a little). This happened once. Thor doesn't tear reality every time hits things. If he did then you would have a fine point.

Also when the two hammers collided, the magic inside both created a chain reaction. This is a plot device feat. Meaning, if Thor would have hit an indestructible wall instead and with the same force then nothing would have happened.

I won't go and claim that Trion decimates Mangog with his punches but rather he does great damage to Mangog with them.

IMO, there is no way Mangog can win this. First of all, his strength level never surpassed high herald level in comics. It would take strength far greater than high herald level (if not infinite) just to hurt Classic Juggs.

Originally posted by h1a8
Yes but what is the rate of Mangog's increase? We must go by comics. Mangog, although get's stronger by hate, doesn't make great jumps per minute. IMO, I say his speed of increase is very slow. For the sake of argument, let's give Mangog 10 tons of extra power per minute. This is faster than he's shown.

Now Thor struck an object (or that creature) and it was said to tear reality (a little). This happened once. Thor doesn't tear reality every time hits things. If he did then you would have a fine point.

Also when the two hammers collided, the magic inside both created a chain reaction. This is a plot device feat. Meaning, if Thor would have hit an indestructible wall instead and with the same force then nothing would have happened.

I won't go and claim that Trion decimates Mangog with his punches but rather he does great damage to Mangog with them.

IMO, there is no way Mangog can win this. First of all, his strength level never surpassed high herald level in comics. It would take strength far greater than high herald level (if not infinite) just to hurt Classic Juggs. no