Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://www.theforcebook.com/article/What-if-Vader-became-Emperor

Just check out that article and read it.

I'm not sure if the pre suit ROTS Vader would have kept the death star in his empire or not, due to his dislike of the death star in ANH. But here's what I do know.

Anakin/Vader, as early as ROTS, was planning on killing Palpatine and taking over the galaxy for himself. He wanted to rule the galaxy in a dictatorship with his family, Padme in ROTS, and Luke in TESB

Palpatine was already on his way to rescue Vader because he sensed through the force that he was in danger. Just like in the ROTS video game alternate ending, if Anakin killed Obi Wan, the Emperor would arrive to greet a non burned, normal human looking Vader.

I don't think Anakin would have killed Palpatine right away, as he did in the ROTS alternate ending. He would have kept him alive with the power to save Padme.

Palpatine didn't learn Plageuis's power for immortality, so it's very possible that it was just a scam and that he'd let Padme die anyways, as that was just to bait/lure Anakin into the darkside.

In the plageuis novel there was a wierd midichlorian science experiment for saving people.

I think Padme would have died from a broken heart with an evil Anakin anyways.

I think he would have taken baby Luke and Leia and he would have killed the Emperor at a certain point later on, and he would forced luke and leia to fight to the death so that only one of them could live to be his new sith apprentice.

Just type in Emperor Vader in google. It shows the old middle aged OT Vader, but never burnt, and the Galactic Emperor..

Imagine the Hayden Version of Vader blowing up alderaan in ANH with the death star!

Vader killing Kenobi and becoming Emperor Vader in ROTS would have been worser off for the galaxy in the long run, with his kids being brainwashed and not being able to redeem him.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&q=emperor%20vader&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=AhIwUZfEBc7PrQfamoCQCw&biw=1280&bih=713&sei=BBIwUeegNYisrAfGxoDABg

Awesome drawings of Darth Vader had he never been burnt on Mustafar.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5

I'm not sure if the pre suit ROTS Vader would have kept the death star in his empire or not, due to his dislike of the death star in ANH. But here's what I do know.

wrong. there was nothing to indicate that at all. he berated the senior officers' blind hubris in regard to the deathstar.


as for the rest its coming off as fanfic.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
wrong. there was nothing to indicate that at all. he berated the senior officers' blind hubris in regard to the deathstar.


as for the rest its coming off as fanfic.

Would Emperor Vader have kept the death star or not? Interesting!

The death star was being built 3 years after TPM, it was being built seven years before AOTC and it was being built all throughout AOTC and ROTS. If you see the end of ROTS, with Anakin, Tarkin, and Sidious hanging out watching the death star being built. There was also a prototype death star being built in the Maw.

It was perfectly available for the young Vader to build. And hey, I love the idea of Emperor Vader in ANH without the suit (looking like a middle aged hayden christnesen in some kinda emperor suit like the fanart shows) destroying alderaan with the death star.

Vader may not have loved the death star as he loved the Force, but it was still a very useful tool. Does his ANH rant about the Force being more powerful than the DS mean that he wanted to get rid of tie fighters, star destroyers, etc, just because they weren't as powerful as the death star?

I say no.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Does his ANH rant about the Force being more powerful than the DS mean that he wanted to get rid of tie fighters, star destroyers, etc, just because they weren't as powerful as the death star?

I say no.

he said specifically "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force".

there is nothing there relating to anything which you are suggesting (keep deathstar, trash fleet...???)

Originally posted by focus4chumps
he said specifically "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force".

there is no suggestion there that anything which you are suggesting may be applied or implied. (keep deathstar, trash fleet...???)

The death star was a very useful tool.

And Anakin/Vader was no idiot; he was smart and cunning.

Nothing in that scene said that he wanted to trash the death star, you can keep a useful tool even you think it's overrated.

i know that. im saying its a non-issue which you just fabricated and then disagreed with in the same paragraph. i found it especially odd.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i know that. im saying its a non-issue which you just fabricated and then disagreed with in the same paragraph. i found it especially odd.

Please elaborate more. I still don't get what you mean by this, exactly.

and there's this:

Originally posted by focus4chumps
and there's this:






Vader wouldn't have trashed the death star.

Agree or disagree?

neither. its a non-issue rooted in your own misinterpretation of vader's dialogue.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
neither. its a non-issue rooted in your own misinterpretation of vader's dialogue.

Please correct my misenterpertation of Vader's dialogue for me.

I hate plot holes, and I want/need a more intelligent fan to figure them out for me!

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5


I think he would have taken baby Luke and Leia and he would have killed the Emperor at a certain point later on, and he would forced luke and leia to fight to the death so that only one of them could live to be his new sith apprentice.


I think this is retarded. Why would he force Luke/Leia to fight to the death? His whole issue is loosing the woman he loves so I don't think making his children fight to the death would really be something he would want. Them perhaps having a rivalry that makes them bitter enemies in the pursuit of their fathers approval/affection and the right to be his right hand and successor seems more likely. 'the rule of two' is enforced to keep the number of rivals to a minimum and I doubt despite training them in the ways of the force/sith he wouldn't subject them to such a pointless death. More so given he wasn't trained as sith ...at all really.. He is a Jedi who had given in to the dark side but all that 'their can only be two' crap was all the emperor.

Yeah he'd more likely smother and suffocate them with protection. If Anakin had held on to Luke and Leia he wouldn't have become the Vader that we're familiar with.

No matter what...good or bad...Vader was always a family man

Yup. Even in ESB, at the height of his power, he's willing to go up against the emperor so he and Luke can spend time together.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Please correct my misenterpertation of Vader's dialogue for me.

I hate plot holes, and I want/need a more intelligent fan to figure them out for me!


laying it on a bit thick there?


the message was "beware the jedi", not "these toys are alll useless"

he was simply stressing that an enemy who is strong with the force could potentially take down any imperial weapon. he was not appraising or diminishing the tactical value of the death star nor any star destroyers nor the least tie fighter.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5

There's a book already written on the subject; it covers all the questions you posed and then some.

http://g-ec1.apartmenttherapy.com/3396672/01-Darth-Vader-and-Son_rect540.jpg

It's good; I own a copy myself. Cost around 10.00 USD.

If Anakin killed Obi-Wan? This (5:23):


5O802FzCKVE?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
laying it on a bit thick there?


the message was "beware the jedi", not "these toys are alll useless"

he was simply stressing that an enemy who is strong with the force could potentially take down any imperial weapon. he was not appraising or diminishing the tactical value of the death star nor any star destroyers nor the least tie fighter.

Here's where i got the misconception that Emperor Vader wouldn't have kept the death star.

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/would-vader-have-kept-the-death-star-if-he-was-emperor.50004690/

If you read the comments below, the TFN users keep saying that Vader didn't believe in using the death star.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
If Anakin killed Obi-Wan? This (5:23):


5O802FzCKVE?

It would have played out the same. A non-burned Anakin/Vader greets the Emperor with the clonetroopers as they arrive and get off of Palpatine's ship.

However, I don't think

A-the Emperor had a new red lightsaber on him at the time that he arrived on Mustafar, would the ROTS Emperor Vader have gotten a red lightsaber eventually? Hopefully.

B-Vader would have killed the Emperor right there at the scene, for two reasons. A-because there were all of those clones right there that would have shot him if he did that right away, and B-he would have at least kept him alive for some time to try to save Padme from death with Plageuis's darkside power.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Here's where i got the misconception that Emperor Vader wouldn't have kept the death star.

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/would-vader-have-kept-the-death-star-if-he-was-emperor.50004690/

If you read the comments below, the TFN users keep saying that Vader didn't believe in using the death star.


how odd. then again tfn is a silly place. perfect example of what happens when a bunch of people make a habit of blindly agreeing with eachother.


but just so we're clear, i wasnt labeling any speculation as false. for all we know maybe vader did hate the idea of the deathstar. the point i was making was that no evidence was given for or against, as vader never gave his opinion on the thing.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
how odd. then again tfn is a silly place. perfect example of what happens when a bunch of people make a habit of blindly agreeing with eachother.


but just so we're clear, i wasnt labeling any speculation as false. for all we know maybe vader did hate the idea of the deathstar. the point i was making was that no evidence was given for or against, as vader never gave his opinion on the thing.

What do you mean by TFN being a silly place? I don't quite understand what you mean by that, bro.

I used to have an account over there, but let's not discuss that on the boards and derail this thread, I can send you a PM about my horrible TFN experiences.

Nothing in the story contradicts or confirms the theory that Vader didn't really think the death star was useful or anything, he just said that the power of the Force was much greater than the death star's power. But he did say not to be too proud of the death star, a technological terror.

But I don't think Vader was against the usage of technology in and of itself., I mean he flew around in his starfighter and his tie fighter and he loved his star destroyer.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
It would have played out the same. A non-burned Anakin/Vader greets the Emperor with the clonetroopers as they arrive and get off of Palpatine's ship.

However, I don't think

A-the Emperor had a new red lightsaber on him at the time that he arrived on Mustafar, would the ROTS Emperor Vader have gotten a red lightsaber eventually? Hopefully.

B-Vader would have killed the Emperor right there at the scene, for two reasons. A-because there were all of those clones right there that would have shot him if he did that right away, and B-he would have at least kept him alive for some time to try to save Padme from death with Plageuis's darkside power. ...



It's just a game...

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
...



It's just a game...

I know. That's what I was saying, alternate storylines aren't canon, and they contradict speculation that actually makes sense.

you have a weird way of wording an agreement as a contradiction/disagreement. oh well. anyway yes thats what i was alluding to:

Originally posted by focus4chumps
he berated the senior officers' blind hubris in regard to the deathstar.

it can possibly be argued that he was also expressing resentment for not being properly respected, with the empire seemingly placing technology ahead of the force in importance. notice everyone treats him like a foppish old relic in ep4, and tarkin goes on to suggest that vader/the force is obsolete. this, again, has everything to do with vader's dislike of certain senior officers' attitudes toward the deathstar, not the death star itself.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
you have a weird way of wording an agreement as a contradiction/disagreement. oh well. anyway yes thats what i was alluding to:



it can possibly be argued that he was also expressing resentment for not being properly respected, with the empire seemingly placing technology ahead of the force in importance. notice everyone treats him like a foppish old relic in ep4, and tarkin goes on to suggest that vader/the force is obsolete. this, again, has everything to do with vader's dislike of certain senior officers' attitudes toward the deathstar, not the death star itself.

Yes, but he said to not be too proud of the death star, as the powerful of the Force is much more powerful than the death star's technology, so what he said probably did involve the death star.

You said that TFN in a wierd place? How so?

Personally, I love the idea of Emperor Vader in Episode 3 (the darth vader that never got burned up and never became more machine than man,) blowing up alderaan in ANH, with the death star in his empire, looking like a middle aged Hayden Christensen.

I hope the TFN speculation is false. I just love the hypothethical ROTS Emperor Vader with the death star.

I think the ROTS Emperor Vader, as this thread is all about, and I'll request a title change thread very soon, is much more interesting than the Luke joining Vader in TESB or ROTJ.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Yes, but he said to not be too proud of the death star, as the powerful of the Force is much more powerful than the death star's technology, so what he said probably did involve the death star.

right, but again you have to take the context of his words into consideration, as it related to the argument. the soon-to-be-choked officer goes on a tirade about how the rebels are powerless and that the death star was invincible. it was an admonishment against hubris and over-reliance on technology, not an admonishment of having and using said technology.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
You said that TFN in a wierd place? How so?

i already told you.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Personally, I love the idea of Emperor Vader in Episode 3 (the darth vader that never got burned up and never became more machine than man,) blowing up alderaan in ANH, with the death star in his empire, looking like a middle aged Hayden Christensen.

*shudder*

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
I hope the TFN speculation is false. I just love the hypothethical ROTS Emperor Vader with the death star.

its not false speculation. its just that their speculation in that case was figured with false data. (proceeding from the notion that vader hated the deathstar, based on a misinterpretation).

Originally posted by focus4chumps
right, but again you have to take the context of his words into consideration, as it related to the argument. the soon-to-be-choked officer goes on a tirade about how the rebels are powerless and that the death star was invincible. it was an admonishment against hubris and over-reliance on technology, not an admonishment of having and using said technology.



i already told you.



*shudder*



its not false speculation. its just that their speculation in that case was figured with false data. (proceeding from the notion that vader hated the deathstar, based on a misinterpretation).

Why shudder?

I now mean that I wish their conclusion was false, don't you?

What exactly was the false data of the specific TFN users?

What does hubris mean?

I should have told them this at TFN and actually wrote more meaningful posts to expand this discussion with them, but I made the mod lock the thread unintentionally by my bad posts.

Conan antonio motti was talking about the death star being the most powerful thing (the ultimate power) in the universe, and that it was invincible and impossible to destroy.

I should have explained that to them.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5

I now mean that I wish their conclusion was false, don't you?

i find their misinformed speculations to be of no personal consequence.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
What exactly was the false data of the specific TFN users?

the assumption that vader disliked the death star.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
What does hubris mean?

pride/arrogance

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i find their misinformed speculations to be of no personal consequence.



the assumption that vader disliked the death star.



pride/arrogance

I don't think Vader's comment about the Force being more powerful than the death star had to do with their disrespect of him-I mean, the Force can only choke you or zap you with lightning at it's best.

that whole ben kenobi immortality thing?

luke turning off his targeting computer and blowing up the deathstar using the force to guide him?

were you not impressed or did you just miss those parts?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
that whole ben kenobi immortality thing?

luke turning off his targeting computer and blowing up the deathstar using the force to guide him?

were you not impressed or did you just miss those parts?

I think it may have been a foreshadowing to the Force destroying the death star, maybe.

The Force could give people eternal life, and it could even destroy the death star itself. I don't think Anakin knew the second part about the death star being destroyed by the Force though, definitley.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5

The Force could give people eternal life

well "afterlife" really, unless you suspect palpatine wasnt lying.


Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
and it could even destroy the death star itself. I don't think Anakin knew the second part about the death star being destroyed by the Force though, definitley.


absolutely he suspected it.




vader is clearly speculating on a possible threat to the deathstar by the rebels possibly using the force. its clear as day.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
well "afterlife" really, unless you suspect palpatine wasnt lying.





absolutely he suspected it.




vader is clearly speculating on a possible threat to the deathstar by the rebels possibly using the force. its clear as day.

By eternal life, I meant the afterlife. That's just how many religions call it.

Well, I disagree with you on that one.

First of all, the Force destroyed the first death star. But, in this scene, I don't interpert Anakin/Vader warning the imperials about that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzs-OvfG8tE

In the context of that scene, I don't think Vader was telling them that a Force user would destroy the death star.

the topic of the discussion was a possible rebel attack and destruction of the death star using the technical plans. vader was directly answering a declaration that the death star was invincible. its blatant.

you are disagreeing with fact, not speculation. i mean, feel free to do so, but you are absolutely wrong.

I don't think Anakin would be strong enough to kill Palpatine straight away. He would take a while to get stronger, and depending on if he received further training. That's just my take on it, EU fanboys gon' rage.

Originally posted by Placidity
I don't think Anakin would be strong enough to kill Palpatine straight away. He would take a while to get stronger, and depending on if he received further training. That's just my take on it, EU fanboys gon' rage.

Yeah, Lord Lucien was right, the ROTS alternate ending was just a video game non canon ending. Anakin wouldn't just kill Palps right away.

Palpatine had mastered to the Force to the point of never sleeping. That's why Vader never got the chance to kill him in the OT. If Vader tried to strike him, the force lightning would kill him. He needed Luke's help.

But, as GL had stated, Anakin would have eventually grown to be twice as powerful in the Force as Sidious had he never been burnt on Mustafar.

I still think Padme would have died, though.

Yeah Padme died of an achy breaky heart--one way or another she'd be done for.


Vader's weakness to Lightning was established in both RotJ and in Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader... until TFU came along and blew that out of the water by having Vader zapped by Kamehame-ha sized Lightning blasts. The EU's kinda gay sometimes.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Yeah Padme died of an achy breaky heart--one way or another she'd be done for.


Vader's weakness to Lightning was established in both RotJ and in Dark Lord: Rise of Darth Vader... until TFU came along and blew that out of the water by having Vader zapped by Kamehame-ha sized Lightning blasts. The EU's kinda gay sometimes.

She died of a broken heart. The darkside wasn't gonna save her either way. Either Yoda takes one of the twins and vader takes the other in a duel or vader takes both of the twins.

The lightning destroyed his life support suit.

Yeah, I hate EU plot holes just like the next guy.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
the topic of the discussion was a possible rebel attack and destruction of the death star using the technical plans. vader was directly answering a declaration that the death star was invincible. its blatant.

you are disagreeing with fact, not speculation. i mean, feel free to do so, but you are absolutely wrong.

Yes, it's true that in the context of the scene they were talking about the possibility of the rebels blowing up the death star, but I don't think Vader was talking about a possible Jedi pilot blowing up the death star at that point.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Yes, it's true that in the context of the scene they were talking about the possibility of the rebels blowing up the death star, but I don't think Vader was talking about a possible Jedi pilot blowing up the death star at that point.

yes he was. if you want to quibble about it, his implication was regarding all force-users and not just jedi as a threat, but YES. HE. WAS.

why wouldnt he suspect that jedi still exist and that they would naturally join forces with the alliance if any where alive? do you consider him a complete ass?

Originally posted by focus4chumps
yes he was. if you want to quibble about it, his implication was regarding all force-users and not just jedi as a threat, but YES. HE. WAS.

why wouldnt he suspect that jedi still exist and that they would naturally join forces with the alliance if any where alive? do you consider him a complete ass?

You're contradicting yourself, no offense.

Before you stated that Vader's comment had to do with respecting his beliefs in the force, or something along those lines, earlier in this thread.

I just find it very hard to interpert Vader as talking about a force sensitive pilot blowing up the death star in that scene.

when did i say that was the only reason for his comment? i didnt.

he was stating that they should be cautious of possible jedi/force users. i suggested that in doing so, he was also reminding them of his own value.

either you are just having fun now or you need to work on your communication skills. perhaps both.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
when did i say that was the only reason for his comment? i didnt.

he was stating that they should be cautious of possible jedi/force users. i suggested that in doing so, he was also reminding them of his own value.

either you are just having fun now or you need to work on your communication skills. perhaps both.

Here are some TFN comments that supported my earlier position about Emperor Vader and the death star.

"I honestly think no. He doesn't seem too impressed with the original. And then there's the untold powers that he and Luke could have wielded together; we know from the EU that two Sith working together can do devastatingly powerful things with the Force. Who needs a Death Star when you can create storms powerful enough to destroy worlds?"

"I admit I forgot about Vader's spiel in ANH about the Death Star. How else would he have come down hard on a planet though? Vader not in the suit would be extremely powerful but Palpatine hasn't had the time to train him in destructive force storms yet. Maybe Palpatine had books lying around but they would be under heavy guard."

"I always thought that Vader looked at the Death Star as overkill...sort of the coward's way out of things. You could tell in A New Hope that he had a genuine disdain for Tarkin's toy.", which that user supported by stating that Vader said this, ""Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.", and then "Well, technically, he never used it - that was Tarkin and the Emperor all the way."

Vader never used the death star, they claim, Tarkin ordered Alderaan to be destroyed, not Vader, Vader could have used force storms to get the same effect, and other things such as the death star being overkill, a coward's way out, and him having a "geniune disdain for tarkin's toy", and that "he wasn't too impressed with the death star and he made a spiel about it".

My response would be this. The TFN-ers were absolutley correct. Vader never ordered alderaan to be destroyed, that was a part of tarkin and the emperor's plan.

IMO, he was referring to the Force overall; both saying "your toy isn't the baddest on the block and it can be broken", then illustrating the power of the Force himself.

He'd definitely be aware that at least Obi Wan and Yoda survived Order 66; who the hell knows what they could have been doing with their time. He'd have no way of knowing they chose to live like bums instead of training a new batch of Jedi in secret.

Originally posted by Robtard
IMO, he was referring to the Force overall; both saying "your toy isn't the baddest on the block and it can be broken", then illustrating the power of the Force himself.

He'd definitely be aware that at least Obi Wan and Yoda survived Order 66; who the hell know what they could have been doing with their time. He'd have no way of knowing they choose to live like bums instead of training a new batch of Jedi in secret.

I don't think the EU concepts of Force storms and destroying worlds existed at the time of Lucas writing ANH.

The Force could give people an afterlife (but I don't think Vader knew about that just yet, he found out later on in ROTJ), but other than that, Force powers were no match for the death star blowing up planets. Vader was absolutley wrong.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
I just find it very hard to interpert Vader as talking about a force sensitive pilot blowing up the death star in that scene.

That "force sensitive pilot scene" occurs after his comment and subsequent choking to and of Motti.

Originally posted by Robtard
He'd definitely be aware that at least Obi Wan and Yoda survived Order 66; who the hell knows what they could have been doing with their time. He'd have no way of knowing they chose to live like bums instead of training a new batch of Jedi in secret.

I suspect that George always intended for Sidious to be acutely aware of the continued existence of at least those two Jedi. Obi Wan and Yoda were both in hiding when the OT starts. There was also a Jedi Purge...so...it is obvious that Sidious feared an uprising.


Here's where I was going with this: I suspect that George intended for Sidious to suspect that at least Obi Wan and Yoda were somewhat involved with the Rebel uprising.

Originally posted by Robtard
IMO, he was referring to the Force overall; both saying "your toy isn't the baddest on the block and it can be broken"
******DONNIE!!! LIFE DOESNT STOP AND START AT YOUR CONVENIENCE!!!!


the implication is that vader would not use the death star if he killed palps in ep3. there is no evidence of this either way. its a ridiculous venture into self-gratifying pontification with no evidence.


Originally posted by Robtard
He'd definitely be aware that at least Obi Wan and Yoda survived Order 66; who the hell knows what they could have been doing with their time. He'd have no way of knowing they chose to live like bums instead of training a new batch of Jedi in secret.

THAAAAAAAAAAAANK YOU

Originally posted by dadudemon
That "force sensitive pilot scene" occurs after his comment and subsequent chocking to and of Motti.

Luke was the force sensitive pilot that ultimately destroyed the death star by using the Force.

But it's not really general consensus among star wars fans that that paticular scene was foreshadowing Luke's future destruction of the death star, or even referencing force sensitive pilots.

That's fanon!

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Luke was the force sensitive pilot that ultimately destroyed the death star by using the Force.

But it's not really general consensus among star wars fans that that paticular scene was foreshadowing Luke's future destruction of the death star, or even referencing force sensitive pilots.

That's fanon!

Huh?


I mean.....what?

Go back and read the conversation. "...that scene..." refers to Vader's comment to Motti.


"...that scene..." also occurs before Vader's other comment about the force being strong "...with this one."



Originally posted by focus4chumps
its a ridiculous venture into self-gratifying pontification with no evidence.

Really, dude?

I think you're getting a bit carried away, here.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
******DONNIE!!! LIFE DOESNT STOP AND START AT YOUR CONVENIENCE!!!!


the implication is that vader would not use the death star if he killed palps in ep3. there is no evidence of this either way. its a ridiculous venture into self-gratifying pontification with no evidence.




THAAAAAAAAAAAANK YOU

There is no evidence that Vader viewed the death star as a wonderful toy, and you still didn't rebut the TFN specific quotes.

For example, Vader did not order Tarkin to blow up Alderaan, he mostly seemed on the neutral side about that one. If not for Tarkin and/or the Emperor, Alderaan would have survived. Vader played no influence in their decision to blow up planets with the death star.

I can't really say either way about in ROTJ, because Vader was just following the Emperor's orders by using the death star.

And thus, the ROTS Emperor Vader probably wouldn't use the death star, based on evidence from the original star wars movies!

Maybe Vader meant that the Force could destroy planets on a much larger level with Force Storms, therey negating the death star's abilities.

look, if you need to believe that vader was a complete buffoon to enjoy the saga, i will be the last to try to take that away from you.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Huh?


I mean.....what?

Go back and read the conversation. "...that scene..." refers to Vader's comment to Motti.


"...that scene..." also occurs before Vader's other comment about the force being strong "...with this one."

I mean that my discussion with you guys was the first time I heard that fan-theory come across. I never heard a star wars fan say that before.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
look, if you need to believe that vader was a complete buffoon to enjoy the saga, i will be the last to try to take that away from you.

You didn't even reply to my previous quotes and refute them.

It's very obvious that Vader never really ordered alderaan's destruction, he just always gets blamed for that among the fans.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
the implication is that vader would not use the death star if he killed palps in ep3. there is no evidence of this either way. its a ridiculous venture into self-gratifying pontification with no evidence.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Really, dude?

I think you're getting a bit carried away, here.

perhaps you missed it then:

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Here are some TFN comments that supported my earlier position about Emperor Vader and the death star.

"I honestly think no. He doesn't seem too impressed with the original. And then there's the untold powers that he and Luke could have wielded together; we know from the EU that two Sith working together can do devastatingly powerful things with the Force. Who needs a Death Star when you can create storms powerful enough to destroy worlds?"

"I admit I forgot about Vader's spiel in ANH about the Death Star. How else would he have come down hard on a planet though? Vader not in the suit would be extremely powerful but Palpatine hasn't had the time to train him in destructive force storms yet. Maybe Palpatine had books lying around but they would be under heavy guard."

"I always thought that Vader looked at the Death Star as overkill...sort of the coward's way out of things. You could tell in A New Hope that he had a genuine disdain for Tarkin's toy.", which that user supported by stating that Vader said this, ""Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.", and then "Well, technically, he never used it - that was Tarkin and the Emperor all the way."

Vader never used the death star, they claim, Tarkin ordered Alderaan to be destroyed, not Vader, Vader could have used force storms to get the same effect, and other things such as the death star being overkill, a coward's way out, and him having a "geniune disdain for tarkin's toy", and that "he wasn't too impressed with the death star and he made a spiel about it".

My response would be this. The TFN-ers were absolutley correct. Vader never ordered alderaan to be destroyed, that was a part of tarkin and the emperor's plan.

If Anakin became the emperor I imagine he would finish the construction on the Death star and use it as a fear tactic toward his enemies and means to make those looking to him for leadership and protection feel protected. Something to possibly make up for his lack of political experience. Also a means to keep those who would seek to undermine his rule in line (or so he might think) not something to really 'use'. At the point he became a sith and before he seemed to have the idea overwhelming power was the only way to keep peace and protect what mattered to him and the death star is overwhelming power.
Blow up a separatist planet as a show of power (under some pretense) and call it a day. Probably live on the damn thing like a giant mobile home.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
If Anakin became the emperor I imagine he would finish the construction on the Death star and use it as a fear tactic toward his enemies and means to make those looking to him for leadership and protection feel protected. Something to possibly make up for his lack of political experience. Also a means to keep those who would seek to undermine his rule in line (or so he might think) not something to really 'use'. At the point he became a sith and before he seemed to have the idea overwhelming power was the only way to keep peace and protect what mattered to him and the death star is overwhelming power.
Blow up a separatist planet as a show of power (under some pretense) and call it a day. Probably live on the damn thing like a giant mobile home.

Yeah, he wasn't against using technology when it was useful. He loved his star destroyers and he was all about being a pilot.

I'm not so sure what Vader thought of Tarkin and/or the tarkin doctrine, however.

I'm creating an original trilogy thread about the OT Vader becoming the Emperor too. This one is just as interetstng, is not more interesting, because a Vader without the suit being the emperor? AWESOME!

I'm not sure if Emperor Vader would destroy alderaan or not, maybe he would destroy a different but similar planet, but he definitley would destroy a seperatist planet.

The empire blowing up alderaan in ANH was a fear tactic to keep the imperial citizens in line (sorta like how Joseph Stalin was a very overtly parnaoid leader that killed millions of his own citizens out of an insanely paranoid fear of dissession, even if they were law abiding people). Maybe it was also to gain followers that valued strength and brute force in the Empire.

I don't think they blew up planets with the death star just for the hell of it. But maybe it made some of their citizens feel safer? How so? IDK, this is all just specualtion and fan theories.

As the forcebook.com emperor vader article and other star wars forums have all stated, Anakin had barely any political charisma, power, or experience at all. How could he hold together an Empire, especially and mainly so young and in-experienced in ROTS?

Suppose he killed Palpatine in ROTS, he would be viewed as a coup and a traitor,, and why would anybody look up to him as a ruler? He wasn't the charismatic and politically savvy space Hitler that his master Palpatine was.

Palpatine lived on Coruscant. Vader wouldn't actually live on the death star, he had his own private castle like a sterotypical evil king.

Is there any evidence that Vader respected Tarkin and the tarkin doctrine, or not?

well he was the only one besides the emperor to refer to him as "my friend", if that means anything.

When did the Emperor ever talk to Tarkin?

i was talking about emporer/tarkin regarding vader

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i was talking about emporer/tarkin regarding vader

All that proves is that Tarkin respected Vader, not the other way around.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
I think this is retarded. Why would he force Luke/Leia to fight to the death? His whole issue is loosing the woman he loves so I don't think making his children fight to the death would really be something he would want. Them perhaps having a rivalry that makes them bitter enemies in the pursuit of their fathers approval/affection and the right to be his right hand and successor seems more likely. 'the rule of two' is enforced to keep the number of rivals to a minimum and I doubt despite training them in the ways of the force/sith he wouldn't subject them to such a pointless death. More so given he wasn't trained as sith ...at all really.. He is a Jedi who had given in to the dark side but all that 'their can only be two' crap was all the emperor.

Vader was a Sith. He had a Darth in his name. The movies even say that he was a Sith.

Whaddya think, he was a dark jedi or something?

It's not a retarded opinion, the Sith only allowed a master and an apprentice.

Also, Vader would kill Luke and/or Leia if they refused to join him.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i was talking about emporer/tarkin regarding vader

Tarkin respected Vader, but there's no proof that the other way around is true (ie, that Vader respected Tarkin and/or the Tarkin doctrine).

i wasnt presenting it as proof,

also i wasnt presenting it as proof,

and i finally wasnt presenting it as proof. thanks, though.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i wasnt presenting it as proof,

also i wasnt presenting it as proof,

and i finally wasnt presenting it as proof. thanks, though.

Please read my above post about what Vader would do with Luke and Leia as Emperor, and respond!

Originally posted by focus4chumps
that whole ben kenobi immortality thing?

luke turning off his targeting computer and blowing up the deathstar using the force to guide him?

were you not impressed or did you just miss those parts?

In the novel, the rise and fall of darth vader, it says, "the death star did not impress darth vader at all."

the novel is not canon

if you see/hear it in the films, thats canon

there is an iffy situation with the clone wars cartoon though, but other than that...yeah

Originally posted by focus4chumps
the novel is not canon

if you see/hear it in the films, thats canon

there is an iffy situation with the clone wars cartoon though, but other than that...yeah

This is not the EU subforum, so let's not get into the EU too much over here, however, let's use the EU vader novel as a reference point for this debate.

Assuming the EU is canon and on the same continuity as the movies, how would Vader's quote (the death star didn't impress him at all) into Vader keeping and using death star in his Empire as a useful tool for ruling the galaxy?

And, also....

(remember, Vader was not in total control, Palps was, and Palpatine used the death star, Vader never ordered it to destroy alderaan.)

i dont even know what you're on about *shrug*

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i dont even know what you're on about *shrug* Yeah he does that a lot. I think he might be schizophrenic.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
i dont even know what you're on about *shrug*

Assuming the EU quote that the death star didn't impress vader, was canon (let's not debate canon here, let's do that in the EU subforum, cuz I gotta get some sleep very soon-I can stay around for another half hour or so arguing about this, just not something as big as a canon debate), was true, how does that reconcile with Vader viewing the death star as a useful tool and keeping it in his empire if he didn't find it to be impressive at all.

there is no "assuming EU is appropriate...". its inappropriate.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
there is no "assuming EU is appropriate...". its inappropriate.

Just for the sake of arguement, just this one time.

there is an EU forum, as you well know.

why do you insist on always trying to nonchalantly hijack your own topics with EU?

Yeah, speaking about the EU on this forum gets your thread closed very quickly.

Originally posted by focus4chumps
there is an EU forum, as you well know.

why do you insist on always trying to nonchalantly hijack your own topics with EU?

OK, fine I'll stop bringing up the EU.

Back on topic, I think Vader could have saved Padme in ROTS, and here's why. The darkside midichlorian cure could have saved her from death, but I'm not sure if her dying of a broken heart (ie, intense stress) could have been stopped by using magical powers of the Force and midichlorians. maybe, maybe not.

Stop bringing up dumb "what if..." thread too.

Originally posted by queeq
Stop bringing up dumb "what if..." thread too.

Are what if threads against the rules over here?

Anyways, I don't think Vader respected Tarkin, there's no real evidence to support that. Tarkin certainly respected Vader, but I view Vader's relationship with Tarkin as more neutral.

these literal trojan 'what if' threads meant to sell crummy baseless theories.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
Are what if threads against the rules over here?


No, I'd have closed this thread if it was. But I can still make a point about how stupid "what if" threads are. In short: what focus said.

I think Anakin wouldn't have lasted very long at all as Emperor, and with Palpatine dead and him removed from power, the galaxy would be a much better place if Vader had killed Obi Wan on Mustafar. Here's why.

Anakin, a guy with barely, if any at all, political experience and who doesn't even match Palpatine's charimastic skills in the political arena, assasinates the leader of the Empire, how would he gain their loyalty, despite being the hero with no fear, a galactic hero during the clone wars?

The clonetroopers might have even shot him after commiting treason by killing Palpatine, and somebody else could have taken Vader's place to rule the Empire, probably in a few days/months after Vader killed Palpatine.

Or Vader would have been arrested.

Ironically, Anakin killing Obi Wan would have been better for the galaxy in the long run.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
I think Anakin wouldn't have lasted very long at all as Emperor, and with Palpatine dead and him removed from power, the galaxy would be a much better place if Vader had killed Obi Wan on Mustafar. Here's why.

Anakin, a guy with barely, if any at all, political experience and who doesn't even match Palpatine's charimastic skills in the political arena, kills the leader of the Empire, how would he gain their loyalty, despite being the hero with no fear, a galactic hero during the clone wars?

The clonetroopers might have even shot him, and somebody else could have taken Vader's place to rule the Empire, probably in a few days/months after Vader killed Palpatine.

With his swagger.

Shirtless swagger. See this shit?


http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/20500000/Anakin-s-SHIRTLESS-the-anakin-skywalker-fangirl-fanclub-20591598-720-404.jpg

In fact: no.

Pic doesn't work.

Originally posted by SevenShackles
I think this is retarded. Why would he force Luke/Leia to fight to the death? His whole issue is loosing the woman he loves so I don't think making his children fight to the death would really be something he would want. Them perhaps having a rivalry that makes them bitter enemies in the pursuit of their fathers approval/affection and the right to be his right hand and successor seems more likely. 'the rule of two' is enforced to keep the number of rivals to a minimum and I doubt despite training them in the ways of the force/sith he wouldn't subject them to such a pointless death. More so given he wasn't trained as sith ...at all really.. He is a Jedi who had given in to the dark side but all that 'their can only be two' crap was all the emperor.

I disagree. I don't think Anakin would raise his two children together. I think Yoda would fight Anakin and rescue one of the twins from him.

Everything would become rather interesting.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
I think Anakin wouldn't have lasted very long at all as Emperor, and with Palpatine dead and him removed from power, the galaxy would be a much better place if Vader had killed Obi Wan on Mustafar. Here's why.

Anakin, a guy with barely, if any at all, political experience and who doesn't even match Palpatine's charimastic skills in the political arena, assasinates the leader of the Empire, how would he gain their loyalty, despite being the hero with no fear, a galactic hero during the clone wars?

The clonetroopers might have even shot him after commiting treason by killing Palpatine, and somebody else could have taken Vader's place to rule the Empire, probably in a few days/months after Vader killed Palpatine.

Or Vader would have been arrested.

Ironically, Anakin killing Obi Wan would have been better for the galaxy in the long run.


^-----This. Although I would add that after defeating Obi Wan and obtaining his children, Anakin might drop out of the political arena altogether. His only reason for joining the Dark Side in the PT was to save Padme and protect his baby, since they all died (he thought) he gave in to the Dark Side completely right up until he learned Luke was alive. What makes you think he wouldn't do the same thing if he managed to save his children in ROTS? With Padme and ObiWan dead, Anakin would focus all of his power on protecting and loving his children, forfeiting any power in the Empire he might have achieved.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned cause the thread is long and I don't want to read it. But the Revenge of the Sith game addresses this actually, if you win against Obi Wan, then Anakin kills the Emperor and then the galaxy belongs to him

_-rP5iqx6T8


And I thought that was immensely ridiculous.

Originally posted by Bardock42
EU EU EU EU EU

reported

Originally posted by Bardock42
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned cause the thread is long and I don't want to read it. But the Revenge of the Sith game addresses this actually, if you win against Obi Wan, then Anakin kills the Emperor and then the galaxy belongs to him

_-rP5iqx6T8


And I thought that was immensely ridiculous.

Yeah, I mentioned this. I think it is an interesting take on the "what-if" scenario.

Palpy responds just as slowly as the Jedi he killed in his chambers.

Originally posted by queeq
Palpy responds just as slowly as the Jedi he killed in his chambers.

Originally posted by PhoenixSam5
The death star was a very useful tool.

And Anakin/Vader was no idiot; he was smart and cunning.

Nothing in that scene said that he wanted to trash the death star, you can keep a useful tool even you think it's overrated. that very true. if u remember on ROTS obi wan mentions that anikan is becoming a far more powerful jedi than he could hope for. he also mentions that anikan is a cunning warrior