Lady Shiva vs Elektra

Stranglehold300

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That's what you're saying. Doesn't make it true.

How many styles/techniques has Elektra mastered compared to Shiva who masters different styles yearly...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
But not necessarily stomped them and she's been beaten by Tim and Cass. Elektra's a top tier MA, she takes Shiva down.

No offense and not trying to be a dick but are you serious with this?

The fight with Tim was just Shiva basically training him and she wasn't even fighting serious. Tim only got fits because he distracted her with his staff. Tim even stated "next time she'll will have him for lunch." Meaning she wasn't even trying.

Cass is way above Elektra when it comes to fighting that its not even funny. Shiva has stalemated with Batgirl many times. IIRC she killed Batgirl and brought her back to life. The same Batgirl who was able to give Deathstroke a run for his money. Show me Elektra fighting someone as skilled as Batgirl or Deathsroke. Bringing up Batgirl is futile.

And Elektra is no where near the top tier MA in the Marvel universe, that's why she uses weapons and struggles with the likes of Bullseye.

Batman-Prime

LS stomps.

TheGodKiller

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
LS stomps.
thumb up

Stranglehold300

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
So much fail in this post. Edit it or post again...

Why don't you ACTUALLY COUNTER MY POST...If it's a big epic "Fail" as you claim then counter it.

Yes Elektra is less skilled compared to the people Shiva has fought. Daredevil has not even completed his training with Stick and has not even mastered many styles compared to Batman, the same could be said with Elektra. Batman has mastered almost every single fighting style on Earth, yet he has asked Shiva to train him and acknowledged Shiva as one of the best martial artist on Earth.

What is Elektra even going to do with Shiva's body reading? Again counter my post if you actually can.

Placidity

LS Stomps

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
How many styles/techniques has Elektra mastered compared to Shiva who masters different styles yearly...

Elektra started very early, too.

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
No offense and not trying to be a dick but are you serious with this?

The fight with Tim was just Shiva basically training him and she wasn't even fighting serious. Tim only got fits because he distracted her with his staff. Tim even stated "next time she'll will have him for lunch." Meaning she wasn't even trying.

Cass is way above Elektra when it comes to fighting that its not even funny. Shiva has stalemated with Batgirl many times. IIRC she killed Batgirl and brought her back to life. The same Batgirl who was able to give Deathstroke a run for his money. Show me Elektra fighting someone as skilled as Batgirl or Deathsroke. Bringing up Batgirl is futile.

And Elektra is no where near the top tier MA in the Marvel universe, that's why she uses weapons and struggles with the likes of Bullseye.

Cap, Logan, Taskmaster and others use weapons and sometimes struggle with lesser fighters, too. Doesn't mean they're not elite MAs.

Elektra beat Bullseye while severely weakened, drugged and poisoned, FYI. And Lester is a very skilled combatant despite what you think, you might want to read up on him sometime.

Cass is overrated and so is Shiva.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
Why don't you ACTUALLY COUNTER MY POST...If it's a big epic "Fail" as you claim then counter it.

Yes Elektra is less skilled compared to the people Shiva has fought. Daredevil has not even completed his training with Stick and has not even mastered many styles compared to Batman, the same could be said with Elektra. Batman has mastered almost every single fighting style on Earth, yet he has asked Shiva to train him and acknowledged Shiva as one of the best martial artist on Earth.

What is Elektra even going to do with Shiva's body reading? Again counter my post if you actually can.

Because I already spent too much time on you. But since I'm bored, I can entertain you a while longer.

Daredevil's long time hero career more than made up for that.

Elektra beat Logan.

She doesn't really struggle against DD, embarrassed him a couple times and in one of their modern fights it was Matt actually who went all out against her when she didn't even want to fight. Guess what, he got owned.

Daredevil is crazy skilled and I've never been particularly impressed with "people Shiva fights".

Your comment about Lester shows your lack of comic book knowledge.

Stranglehold300

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Elektra started very early, too.

Actually Elektra's training as a ninja wasn't even complete and after being resurrected by the Hand the Chaste rejected her altogether. So that tell's us that she has not mastered many styles.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cap, Logan, Taskmaster and others use weapons and sometimes struggle with lesser fighters, too. Doesn't mean they're not elite MAs.

Elektra beat Bullseye while severely weakened, drugged and poisoned, FYI. And Lester is a very skilled combatant despite what you think, you might want to read up on him sometime.

Cass is overrated and so is Shiva.

When has Shiva beat Cap? Elektra has never beaten Wolverine. IIRC Wolverine was brainwashed and she struck him in the back while he was not looking with a knife. While beating Taskmaster is impressive, he unlike Batman, Shiva or Batgirl never really masters styles of his own and is just a copy cat.

As for the fight with Bullseye...Their fight suring Dark Reign I don't remember her being weakened. I actually remember Bullseye toying with her.

Just because Shiva may seem overrated doesn't mean Elektra wins.

pym-ftw

Lester is an amped peak human, and a solid Ma

Shiva wins 6-7/10 imho

Stranglehold300

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Because I already spent too much time on you. But since I'm bored, I can entertain you a while longer.

Daredevil's long time hero career more than made up for that.

Elektra beat Logan.

She doesn't really struggle against DD, embarrassed him a couple times and in one of their modern fights it was Matt actually who went all out against her when she didn't even want to fight. Guess what, he got owned.

Daredevil is crazy skilled and I've never been particularly impressed with "people Shiva fights".

Your comment about Lester shows your lack of comic book knowledge.

1. Like I said before Elektra never really beat Wolverine.
2. What? DD usually holds back against Elektra.Daredevil has never gave Elektra his all in combat because he doesn't want to hurt her. He's easily beaten the guy who killed her when not holding back. When did DD go all out against her?
3. How many styles has DD mastered since Stick left? Compared to Shiva or even Batman.
4. You thinking Lester is a top tier Martial artist is laughable no offense, but what feats does Bullseye have that put him on the same Martial arts level as Shiva? How many styles has he even mastered? What skilled martial artists has he fought and defeated. He was easily taken out by a Daredevil not holding back.

My comic knowledge is just great if you ask me. Anyways I'm getting some thing to eat.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
Actually Elektra's training as a ninja wasn't even complete and after being resurrected by the Hand the Chaste rejected her altogether. So that tell's us that she has not mastered many styles.

Not really.

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
When has Shiva beat Cap? Elektra has never beaten Wolverine. IIRC Wolverine was brainwashed and she struck him in the back while he was not looking with a knife. While beating Taskmaster is impressive, he unlike Batman, Shiva or Batgirl never really masters styles of his own and is just a copy cat.

Used Cap just as an example of a weapon wielder who's still one of the best fighters. You tried to discredit Elektra.

Wrong. She has. Elektra and Wolverine: The Reedemer.

Unlike them Tony has photographic reflexes and can boost his speed, so...

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
As for the fight with Bullseye...Their fight suring Dark Reign I don't remember her being weakened. I actually remember Bullseye toying with her.

Just because Shiva may seem overrated doesn't mean Elektra wins.

It's obvious you didn't read the mini then, because Elektra's horrible condition was the major part of the plot...

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by Stranglehold300
1. Like I said before Elektra never really beat Wolverine.
2. What? DD usually holds back against Elektra.Daredevil has never gave Elektra his all in combat because he doesn't want to hurt her. He's easily beaten the guy who killed her when not holding back. When did DD go all out against her?
3. How many styles has DD mastered since Stick left? Compared to Shiva or even Batman.
4. You thinking Lester is a top tier Martial artist is laughable no offense, but what feats does Bullseye have that put him on the same Martial arts level as Shiva? How many styles has he even mastered? What skilled martial artists has he fought and defeated. He was easily taken out by a Daredevil not holding back.

My comic knowledge is just great if you ask me. Anyways I'm getting some thing to eat.

1. Better don't say anything next time.
2. Wrong, wrong, wrong. He won because of his super sense of balance when he wanted to get his revenge on Bullseye.

In Brubaker's run.

3. You really think the number of mastered styles matters so much...? Think again.
4. I never said he's a top tier. He's close to being one, though.

DD's also got beaten by him, so what's your point...?

More like mediocre.

iceman24567

Skillwise they are peers slight edge to Shiva if physical stats are equal i will go with Shiva if not Elektra breaks her

iceman24567

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Not really.

Used Cap just as an example of a weapon wielder who's still one of the best fighters. You tried to discredit Elektra.

Wrong. She has. Elektra and Wolverine: The Reedemer.

Unlike them Tony has photographic reflexes and can boost his speed, so...

It's obvious you didn't read the mini then, because Elektra's horrible condition was the major part of the plot... I remember her being heavily drugged before hand and was still able to pwn Paladin even with restraints on.

abhilegend

Lady Shiva stomps. Ignore whatever stilt and srank say. They would probably give Elektra win over Karate Kid.

uhuh

abhilegend

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
That's what you're saying. Doesn't make it true.

But not necessarily stomped them and she's been beaten by Tim and Cass. Elektra's a top tier MA, she takes Shiva down.
Tim drugged Shiva. Cass fight has several factors to consider. Its not like she was killed by her own weapon by a C level MA or something, was it?

Lord Feron

Lady Shiva, but barely

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by iceman24567
I remember her being heavily drugged before hand and was still able to pwn Paladin even with restraints on.

Yup.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Tim drugged Shiva. Cass fight has several factors to consider. Its not like she was killed by her own weapon by a C level MA or something, was it?

Being drugged didn't stop Elektra from beating Bullseye cool

kuraamyook

The only change Elektra has is with powers

In pure H2H Shiva would absolutely maul her. Elektra has lost to Bullseye, Daredevil, was stalemated by an injured Black Widow, lost to Hercules in a sword fight and lost twice to Kuruyama who's essentially Bane Jr.

Also her fight with Bullseye in Dark Reign, Bullseye was also holding back on her so it kind of balances it out that she was injured

And Daredevil beat Bullseye with a broken arm.

SamZED

The fact that this thread doesn't consist of "Elektra stomps" posts I consider it a win for DC on KMC.

Glorificus

Originally posted by kuraamyook
The only change Elektra has is with powers

And speed. And speed makes all the difference.

Elektra is a bullet-timer. Shiva is not.

I'd go with Elektra for the majority.

kuraamyook

Elektra also lost to Hercules in a sword fight, he shattered her sai and then she needed the helm of ares to beat him, and he was faking defeat laughing out loud

kuraamyook

Originally posted by Glorificus
And speed. And speed makes all the difference.

Elektra is a bullet-timer. Shiva is not.

I'd go with Elektra for the majority. Shiva has bullet timing feats

Elektra isn't a bullet timer, it was confirmed in Dark Reign that she telegraphs shots and when you can disguise your shots you can shoot her

abhilegend

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yup.

Being drugged didn't stop Elektra from beating Bullseye cool

C level MA who engaged Daredevil, Elektra, Punisher, Moon Knight and others in h2h combat...? Whose h2h techniques are used by Taskmaster, Echo and Finesse?

Sai stab was a fatality, there was no fight in her left after he punctured her throat with a playing card.
Whoa, she beat Bullseye while drugged!!! Stop the presses.

He has used his extensive research on both DD and Elektra to do that. Recently an absolutely exhausted DD totally destroyed him. Punisher? Moon Knight? Hahaha, you seriously think that getting his ass handed to him by Punisher of all people makes him an A level MA? You and srank seriously overrate marvel MA. Its funny though.

Doesn't makes it any less humiliating.

You were saying something about Cass beating Shiva when she killed and revived her to make her death wish true? Are you considering Cass and phucking bullseye at the same level?

kuraamyook

Originally posted by abhilegend
Whoa, she beat Bullseye while drugged!!! Stop the presses.

He has used his extensive research on both DD and Elektra to do that. Recently an absolutely exhausted DD totally destroyed him. Punisher? Moon Knight? Hahaha, you seriously think that getting his ass handed to him by Punisher of all people makes him an A level MA? You and srank seriously overrate marvel MA. Its funny though.

Doesn't makes it any less humiliating.

You were saying something about Cass beating Shiva when she killed and revived her to make her death wish true? Are you considering Cass and phucking bullseye at the same level? That's kind of true, I've seen their post and apparently Black Widow vs Karate Kid would be an even fight to these idiots laughing

abhilegend

Originally posted by Glorificus
And speed. And speed makes all the difference.

Elektra is a bullet-timer. Shiva is not.

I'd go with Elektra for the majority.
Shiva stomped Shadowdragon by sheer speed.

Daredevil1

Originally posted by kuraamyook
Shiva has bullet timing feats

Elektra isn't a bullet timer, it was confirmed in Dark Reign that she telegraphs shots and when you can disguise your shots you can shoot her

Fail. Elektra has blocked multiple bullets with here sais and easily.

Bullet timing is a joke.

abhilegend

Originally posted by SamZED
The fact that this thread doesn't consist of "Elektra stomps" posts I consider it a win for DC on KMC.
Wait for srank to re-emerge. Elektra would be again stomping anyone below karate kid from DC.

kuraamyook

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Fail. Elektra has blocked multiple bullets with here sais and easily.

Bullet timing is a joke. Fail she does this with telegraphy, not with speed, confirmed in Dark Reign

Be back later to whip some more asses

SamZED

Originally posted by kuraamyook
Shiva has bullet timing feats

Elektra isn't a bullet timer, it was confirmed in Dark Reign that she telegraphs shots and when you can disguise your shots you can shoot her Elektra has shtload of bullet time feats. Opinion of one writer doesn't change anything. She's deflected a bullet with her bare hand once. Shes definitely a bullet timer.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by kuraamyook
The only change Elektra has is with powers

In pure H2H Shiva would absolutely maul her. Elektra has lost to Bullseye, Daredevil, was stalemated by an injured Black Widow, lost to Hercules in a sword fight and lost twice to Kuruyama who's essentially Bane Jr.

Also her fight with Bullseye in Dark Reign, Bullseye was also holding back on her so it kind of balances it out that she was injured

And Daredevil beat Bullseye with a broken arm.

And Shiva has lost to Tim and Cass and has been one-shotted by Batman. Both women can be beat, so what?

Bullseye wasn't really going easy on her and Elektra was not just injured. She was drugged and poisoned, too.

Originally posted by SamZED
The fact that this thread doesn't consist of "Elektra stomps" posts I consider it a win for DC on KMC.

To celebrate that big event, DC's gonna do another reboot!!! eek!

And one more reset after that, for a good measure.

kuraamyook

Originally posted by SamZED
Elektra has shtload of bullet time feats. Opinion of one writer doesn't change anything. She's deflected a bullet with her bare hand once. Shes definitely a bullet timer. She can deflect them with telegraphy, take away telegraphy and she can't deflect them with pure speed, proven in Dark Reign

kuraamyook

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
And Shiva has lost to Tim and Cass and has been one-shotted by Batman. Both women can be beat, so what?

Bullseye wasn't really going easy on her and Elektra was not just injured. She was drugged and poisoned, too.

To celebrate that big event, DC's gonna do another reboot!!! eek!

And one more reset after that, for a good measure. She beat Cass too and Cass is better than everyone who beat Elektra including Kurayama and Hercules.

Tim Drake beat her by poisoning her. Kurayam and Hercules didn't poison Elektra, they flat out beat her ass, and an injured Widow stalemated her

abhilegend

Originally posted by kuraamyook
Elektra also lost to Hercules in a sword fight, he shattered her sai and then she needed the helm of ares to beat him, and he was faking defeat laughing out loud

Hercules is Karate Kid level possibly superior.Originally posted by Daredevil1
Fail. Elektra has blocked multiple bullets with here sais and easily.

Bullet timing is a joke.
Who hasn't? Shiva kicked Katana's ass who was deflecting bullets from machine gunS in the same issue.

SamZED

And one more reset after that, for a good measure. I say retcon Batman into an actual mutated bat. That'd be awesome! eek!

kuraamyook

It was a depowered Hercules in Herc's recent series, she couldn't beat a depowered Hercules without the Helm of Ares which turned her invisible

abhilegend

And one more reset after that, for a good measure.
Mind-controlled shiva you mean?

kuraamyook

Exactly, and just for the record even if Shiva lost to Tim Drake in a legit fight Tim Drake is still better than a depowered Hercules

kuraamyook

G2G be back later for more of Stiltmans lulz

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by abhilegend
Whoa, she beat Bullseye while drugged!!! Stop the presses.

He has used his extensive research on both DD and Elektra to do that. Recently an absolutely exhausted DD totally destroyed him. Punisher? Moon Knight? Hahaha, you seriously think that getting his ass handed to him by Punisher of all people makes him an A level MA? You and srank seriously overrate marvel MA. Its funny though.

Doesn't makes it any less humiliating.

You gotta admit it's much better than losing to some child adopted by a pervert who dressed up as a bat...

When did I say anything about A level? He's B level, acknowledged by Versus forum:

Still much better than you thought smile

Originally posted by abhilegend
You were saying something about Cass beating Shiva when she killed and revived her to make her death wish true? Are you considering Cass and phucking bullseye at the same level?

Yep. "Doesn't make it any less humiliating" wink

Joker trolled Cass.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by abhilegend
Mind-controlled shiva you mean?

Possibly mind-controlled, it wasn't confirmed actually.

Originally posted by SamZED
I say retcon Batman into an actual mutated bat. That'd be awesome! eek!

YES!!! Now that's a fresh idea!

Originally posted by kuraamyook
G2G be back later for more of Stiltmans lulz

Be sure to hurry up, clock is ticking, sock. The nose knows.

SamZED

Deadpool second tier my ***! mad

abhilegend

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You gotta admit it's much better than losing to some child adopted by a pervert who dressed up as a bat...

When did I say anything about A level? He's B level, acknowledged by Versus forum:

Still much better than you thought smile

Yep. "Doesn't make it any less humiliating" wink

Joker trolled Cass.
Its not more humiliating than losing to someone like herc though. You are now playing forum level card, which means absolutely nothing. Nice try though.

Joker trolls everyone.
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You gotta admit it's much better than losing to some child adopted by a pervert who dressed up as a bat...

When did I say anything about A level? He's B level, acknowledged by Versus forum:

Still much better than you thought smile

Yep. "Doesn't make it any less humiliating" wink

Joker trolled Cass.
Nope, grodd was mind-controlling everyone. Also Loeb-batman would oneshot kill Elektra. In the next issue he oneshotted captain marvel.

StiltmanFTW

Originally posted by abhilegend
Its not more humiliating than losing to someone like herc though. You are now playing forum level card, which means absolutely nothing. Nice try though.

You chose to ignore everything else, so yeah KMC MA hierarchy was my last hope.

Feats, fights, exemplary techniques copied by 3 photographic reflexes type characters and handbooks are more than enough to justify his place as a master ma here.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Nope, grodd was mind-controlling everyone. Also Loeb-batman would oneshot kill Elektra. In the next issue he oneshotted captain marvel.

He doesn't have that power. If he really were mc'ing everyone, why the villains weren't confused after Supes broke mind control by knocking him out?

abhilegend

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
You chose to ignore everything else, so yeah KMC MA hierarchy was my last hope.

Feats, fights, exemplary techniques copied by 3 photographic reflexes type characters and handbooks are more than enough to justify his place as a master ma here.

He doesn't have that power. If he really were mc'ing everyone, why the villains weren't confused after Supes broke mind control by knocking him out?
Because his whole history doesn't support him being a B-level MA. He is at best a C level MA.

The villains were confused? What are you talking about? Nightshade outright says "Where am I?" or something like that. Shiva, mongul and Grundy were KOED. The other villains came later and they were not mind-controlled.

kuraamyook

If Bullseye was an A lister he wouldnt have gotten train wrecked by Daredevil so many times. Daredevil is an A lister, Bullseye isnt and Elektra sure as hell isnt

Konton

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t502532.html

Lotsa dumb in here.

Anyway, Elektra is probably Shiva's physical superior if we go by demonstrated feats of strength, speed, and coordination. She once shot a man from an amusement park ride while he was spinning around in the opposite direction on another with nothing but an antique crossbow. She's got loads of crazy stuff like that in her repertoire. The most impressive thing Shiva's done that I can recall was jump from the roof of a car onto a helicopter.

Shiva is skilled but I don't see her overcoming Elektra's speed, or even her stealth for that matter - which is good enough for her to disappear from Daredevil, Wolverine, and Fury while in plain sight.

Arguing over her loss to Bullseye is stupid, and bringing it up even more so after her not-too-log-ago appearances in Dark Reign where she blew up a bullet in his face and stabbed him with his own weapon, while severely drugged, injured, and poisoned from saving a civillian during the conflict.

I've probably had to type that out a million times here.

leonidas

more importantly--where did herc beat her in a sword fight...?

kuraamyook

Originally posted by leonidas
more importantly--where did herc beat her in a sword fight...? It was in his recent series where he was depowered.

kuraamyook

Originally posted by Konton
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t502532.html

Lotsa dumb in here.

Anyway, Elektra is probably Shiva's physical superior if we go by demonstrated feats of strength, speed, and coordination. She once shot a man from an amusement park ride while he was spinning around in the opposite direction on another with nothing but an antique crossbow. She's got loads of crazy stuff like that in her repertoire. The most impressive thing Shiva's done that I can recall was jump from the roof of a car onto a helicopter.

Shiva is skilled but I don't see her overcoming Elektra's speed, or even her stealth for that matter - which is good enough for her to disappear from Daredevil, Wolverine, and Fury while in plain sight.

Arguing over her loss to Bullseye is stupid, and bringing it up even more so after her not-too-log-ago appearances in Dark Reign where she blew up a bullet in his face and stabbed him with his own weapon, while severely drugged, injured, and poisoned from saving a civillian during the conflict.

I've probably had to type that out a million times here. Shiva has already overcome Cassandra's speed, strength and skill, all which massively outclass Elektra's. On top of that Bats already stated that Shiva was as fast as Sensei and hit as hard as Ra's does so she's at least similar to Elektra physically, she's just much more skilled than Elektra is.

Elektra did beat Bullseye in Dark Reign but it doesn't offset her losses to him earlier, to Kurayama, to Hercules, a stalemate against an injured Black Widow, getting two paneled by Daredevil etc

pym-ftw

Originally posted by kuraamyook
It was a depowered Hercules in Herc's recent series, she couldn't beat a depowered Hercules without the Helm of Ares which turned her invisible
Helm of hades not ares
geek

Losing to an immortal in a swords fight isn't really a bad feat, especially one who destroys your weapon...
Nice try trolling though sock

kuraamyook

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Helm of hades not ares
geek

Losing to an immortal in a swords fight isn't really a bad feat, especially one who destroys your weapon...
Nice try trolling though sock Oh wow, I made a error on the name of the helmet, doesn't change the fact that she lost to him

Hercules wasn't immortal retard, he was depowered in that series which took place after Chaos War.

So essentially a mortal Hercules bested Elektra, outskilled her

Seriously I know you're butt hurt because I embarrassed you on another thread but keep it in your pants kid, no one is impressed.

pym-ftw

Really, I guess your name callings how you ended up a sock

Being depowered doesn't take away from his huge experience advantage he gained over his IMMORTAL life span...

Everything is said wasn't wrong,... Just your misplaced anger...

kuraamyook

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Really, I guess your name callings how you ended up a sock

Being depowered doesn't take away from his huge experience advantage he gained over his IMMORTAL life span...

Everything is said wasn't wrong,... Just your misplaced anger... You're making this too easy. Experience doesn't mean shit, quality of training does.

By your logic Thor would be a better fighter than Iron Fist because he has more experience

Again experience means jack, Hercules is a mediocre fighter but he beat Elektra because she is also a mediocre fighter

Good lord you're retarded,

abhilegend

kuraamyook

man there are some dumb people on this site

pym-ftw

Hercules has no h2h Training... Are you sure that's your final answer...?

pym-ftw

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's not how it works in comics. Hercules is a decent brawler but not much of a fighter overall.
Hercules is skilled as a Greek wrestler, he's not a multi skilled fighter because he doesn't have to be...
That's how his comics work laughing out loud

abhilegend

Originally posted by pym-ftw
Hercules is skilled as a Greek wrestler, he's not a multi skilled fighter because he doesn't have to be...
That's how his comics work laughing out loud

Nope. He's been outclassed by nearly every street class MA. Elektra losing to him is embarrassing as all hell.

cdtm

By brick standards, Herc's good. He beat Thing easy enough in a wrestling match, and Thing's regarded as a good brawler..

But yeah, Elektra should have been more then a match for him on pure skill. I consider that showing PIS, personally, as she has many much better showings.

Anyways, this is a good match.. I'm leaning towards Shiva, but Elektra does have the benefit of deflecting bullets with her sai and some other nice speed feats..

abhilegend

Originally posted by cdtm
By brick standards, Herc's good. He beat Thing easy enough in a wrestling match, and Thing's regarded as a good brawler..

But yeah, Elektra should have been more then a match for him on pure skill. I consider that showing PIS, personally, as she has many much better showings.

Anyways, this is a good match.. I'm leaning towards Shiva, but Elektra does have the benefit of deflecting bullets with her sai and some other nice speed feats..
PIS doesn't excuses low showings. Elektra side is using tim and cass as low showings for shiva.

cdtm

Originally posted by abhilegend
PIS doesn't excuses low showings. Elektra side is using tim and cass as low showings for shiva.

They're crazy. o_o

Tim's good, but not that good. I think he gets the benefit of writers bias a lot, personally..

And Cass, how is losing to her a low end showing for Shiva? She was being written up a child prodigy, and later was taken in hand by Batman with no life outside of training and she had a "precog" ability, and she lost her first match to Shiva (Was killed, in fact.)

abhilegend

Originally posted by cdtm
They're crazy. o_o

Tim's good, but not that good. I think he gets the benefit of writers bias a lot, personally..

And Cass, how is losing to her a low end showing for Shiva? She was being written up a child prodigy, and later was taken in hand by Batman with no life outside of training and she had a "precog" ability, and she lost her first match to Shiva (Was killed, in fact.)
Because bullseye is as skilled as Cass apparently.

TheGodKiller

Originally posted by leonidas
more importantly--where did herc beat her in a sword fight...?
He wasn't beating her, they were evenly matched until Zeus(who was wearing the Helm of Hades) sneaked up on her. Something that kuraamyook conveniently forgot to point out.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/100395/2140484-herc_vs_elektra.png
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/100395/2140483-herc_vs_elektra_2.png
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/100395/2140482-herc_vs_elektra_3.png
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/100395/2140481-herc_vs_elektra_4.png

As for this thread, Shiva takes the comfortable majority imo.

Stranglehold300

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Not really.

Yes really...Elektra's training as a ninja wasn't even complete and after being resurrected by the Hand the Chaste rejected her altogether. Shiva MASTERS different techniques on a yearly bases...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

Used Cap just as an example of a weapon wielder who's still one of the best fighters. You tried to discredit Elektra.

Wrong. She has. Elektra and Wolverine: The Reedemer.

Unlike them Tony has photographic reflexes and can boost his speed, so...

Cap is still not as skilled as Elektra...And how did I try to discredit Elektra when she is no where on Shiva's level. You tried to bring up her fight with Tim as a low showing.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW

It's obvious you didn't read the mini then, because Elektra's horrible condition was the major part of the plot...

IIRC it took pages after pages to beat Bullseye...Bullseye who is not even on par with Shiva in the slightest bit.

Stranglehold300

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
1. Better don't say anything next time.
2. Wrong, wrong, wrong. He won because of his super sense of balance when he wanted to get his revenge on Bullseye.

In Brubaker's run.

3. You really think the number of mastered styles matters so much...? Think again.
4. I never said he's a top tier. He's close to being one, though.

DD's also got beaten by him, so what's your point...?

More like mediocre.

1. Lets see Elektra take on a Wolverine that was actually trying.
2. It's a fact that DD does not go all out on Elektra, I don't know why you're ignoring that.
3. No it shows how skilled they are. Shiva can use a style that Elektra wouldn't even notice. What's Elektra going to do against Shiva's body reading?
4. When did I say Bullseye hasn't beaten him? My main point was that Elektra usually has trouble fighting him.

leonidas

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
He wasn't beating her, they were evenly matched until Zeus(who was wearing the Helm of Hades) sneaked up on her. Something that kuraamyook conveniently forgot to point out.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/100395/2140484-herc_vs_elektra.png
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/100395/2140483-herc_vs_elektra_2.png
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/100395/2140482-herc_vs_elektra_3.png
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/100395/2140481-herc_vs_elektra_4.png

As for this thread, Shiva takes the comfortable majority imo.

laughing out loud

yeah, that's not exactly the way that scene was painted a could times in this thread. that scene is meaningless, and he certainly didn't 'win' the exchange. hilarious how people can so outright lie on a comicbook site. brilliant. herc DID receive the benefit of a nice renewed focus on his skills while mortal as well, so even the fact that he parried her a couple times isn't surprising.

i don't know enough about shiva to say for sure, but i do know elektra very well. based on who it was said shiva beat and how, this is certainly not a stomp as some of have. seems fairly even from what i've been able to gather. what makes you think elektra wins so comfortably?

TheGodKiller

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't know enough about shiva to say for sure, but i do know elektra very well. based on who it was said shiva beat and how, this is certainly not a stomp as some of have. seems fairly even from what i've been able to gather. what makes you think elektrashiva wins so comfortably?
Fixed
Her feats/fights.

Stranglehold300

Originally posted by leonidas
laughing out loud

Daredevil1

Although I don't agree that Hercules is as skilled as his A list(street) groups something to consider.

Hercules was shown to be greater at HtH then Thor(IIRC Thor did admit this while Herc had him in a sleeper hold) and more skilled then the Thing(as someone stated above in wrestling).

So his skill has been noted above his tier group. Also in the scans provided Elektra was not defeated. Plus even if Herc is not as skilled as her in HtH. He might be as skilled as her with a "weapon". Characters like Swordman or Zemo are not as skilled as Steve in hth but because there skill with weapons. They are very dangerous.

Plus it's not like Elektra loss that fight. It's not like she got KO in 3 seconds.....LOL(Prom vs Shiva fight).

Some also brought up her stalemate with Black Widow. Sure BW was very impressive since they both had each other in a close to death move at the end. But it was Elektra that left the fight healthy/easily while BW passed out unconscious.

Now against Bullseye...she did lose to him once but that's been nullified that after her death she defeated him handily and in there last fight while injured. She still defeated him again.

So Elektra has made up with her losses even her loss against TaskMaster she then defeated him back.

Shiva on the other hand has not redeemed herself against her losses(especially that awful fight with her lifeless body left hanging on a hook by Cass).

Stranglehold300

Why are people still bringing up Shiva's lose to Cass??? Shiva has beaten her before and Cass is WAY MORE skilled than Elektra can even dream. Seriously...

Daredevil1

Shiva beat her once in the past.
Cass beat her back in the rematch.
As then in there next fight Cass humiliated her.

This is more along the lines of how Elektra is portrayed. Cass overall record is very impressive indeed. But then so is Elektra like stalemating her top A-list names like Shang-Chi or Logan.

You can make a much better case for Cass that's for sure then, what you can for Shiva. But to say Cass is superior to Elektra would also be a lie considering her "overall" record outside from just her Shiva fights.

cdtm

Originally posted by Daredevil1

As then in there next fight Cass humiliated her.

laughing out loud

Yeah, that narrow loss where she dropped unconscious a second before Cass did was so humiliating.

She killed Cass outright, and Cass barely edged her out in the rematch. And, the writer even shoehorned in that she had a deathwish, and Cass was her chosen executioner..

Daredevil1

LOL the fight were Cass left her dangling on a hook. There fight after the rematch. Haha.

cdtm

Originally posted by Daredevil1
LOL the fight were Cass left her dangling on a hook. There fight after the rematch. Haha.

I'm sorry, I thought you were using her averages, and not her low end showings when she was written entirely OOC.

Like using Thor's string of losses as some kind of litmus test, even though the rules are pretty explicit about using their entire history, instead of just cherry picking the lowest end feats.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Daredevil1
LOL the fight were Cass left her dangling on a hook. There fight after the rematch. Haha.
Bulleseye killed Elektra with her own sai. Nothing is more humiliating whether she beat him later or not. I like how you're just making excuses for Elektra while citing low showings for Shiva.

thumb up

Daredevil1

Yet Elekta came back better while Shiva loss the rematch and came back worse. No real counter but an excuse.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yet Elekta came back better while Shiva loss the rematch and came back worse. No real counter but an excuse.
Yeah, just because she lost to one of the best martial artist in either DC or Marvel and who is superior to Elektra, she automatically loses to Elektra. Weird logic there but its a marvel MA after all.

thumb up

Daredevil1

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, just because she lost to one of the best martial artist in either DC or Marvel and who is superior to Elektra, she automatically loses to Elektra. Weird logic there but its a marvel MA after all.

thumb up

What's weird is logic that Cass is superior to Elektra. By your logic I could say Elektra stalemates characters like Shang, Daredevil and Wolverine, as they would wreck Cass. That is your weird logic.

My logic is that since Shiva lost to Cass in the rematch and then in the next fight got owned by Cass, in a humiliating fashion to some sound losses against other top names as well. While Elektra has not shown such humiliating losses since her improvement and normally beats others in rematches and has stalemated her top names.

Is good enough reason for me to say she takes Shiva.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Daredevil1
What's weird is logic that Cass is superior to Elektra. By your logic I could say Elektra stalemates characters like Shang, Daredevil and Wolverine, as they would wreck Cass. That is your weird logic.

My logic is that since Shiva lost to Cass in the rematch and then in the next fight got owned by Cass, in a humiliating fashion to some sound losses against other top names as well. While Elektra has not shown such humiliating losses since her improvement and normally beats others in rematches and has stalemated her top names.

Is good enough reason for me to say she takes Shiva.
Nope. At that logic, shiva wrecked shadowdragon which is superior to anything Elektra has done. Neither DD, Shang or Wolverine would beat Cass in pure h2h via skills let alone wreck her.

What other losses? Bullseye killing her is more humiliating than all of shiva's losses combined. Black Widow stalemating her, hercules stalemating her, two losses against Kuruyama and Daredevil beating her in two panels is more humiliating too.

Not if we go by their feats and track records.

cdtm

Originally posted by Daredevil1
What's weird is logic that Cass is superior to Elektra. By your logic I could say Elektra stalemates characters like Shang, Daredevil and Wolverine, as they would wreck Cass. That is your weird logic.

His logic isn't weird. Because he's using logic.. By his logic, your logic doesn't make sense, because he's actually using logic. He's basing his opinion on Cass from her comics. Seriously, read a Batgirl comic from before her character assassination.

And lol at including Wolverine in that list of martial artists.

Daredevil1

Originally posted by cdtm
His logic isn't weird. Because he's using logic.. By his logic, your logic doesn't make sense, because he's actually using logic. He's basing his opinion on Cass from her comics. Seriously, read a Batgirl comic from before her character assassination.

And lol at including Wolverine in that list of martial artists.

Says the person that didn't even know about Cass Vs Shiva fight were Cass humiliated her.

Wolverine is a beast in fighting because not just the martial arts that he brings to the table but everything included. And he is very skilled as well.

Read some books..... any........period.....scratch that. You can't even comment correctly on the books that you do read, so that might not even help.

abhilegend

Originally posted by cdtm
His logic isn't weird. Because he's using logic.. By his logic, your logic doesn't make sense, because he's actually using logic. He's basing his opinion on Cass from her comics. Seriously, read a Batgirl comic from before her character assassination.

And lol at including Wolverine in that list of martial artists.
You don't know, getting beaten by Cass is more humiliating than getting killed by a C level martial artist, getting stalemated by a B level martial artist who was mortally wounded and missing an organ and getting stalemated by Hercules who's more skilled than Thing and Thor!!!!! Don't you get it? Karate Kid is black widow level in marvel and Cass is hercules level.
baka

Daredevil1

Lost to Bullseye in the past......shown superiority to him in the future. Plus at that time Bullseye was on a level were he once defeated Daredevil, stalemated Cap, and was very much a threat.

Now a days he gets more losses then wins(like Shiva)

Stalemated Black Widow in hindsight but it was Black Widow who passed out unconscious while Elektra left stealthily and easily because of what "she" did to her.

Stalemated Hercules who had a shield/sword. If this is her worst then you really fail to see the difference between Elektra/Shive here.

No offense to classic Shiva but hopefully NuDc Shiva get back on track.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Lost to Bullseye in the past......shown superiority to him in the future. Plus at that time Bullseye was on a level were he once defeated Daredevil, stalemated Cap, and was very much a threat.

Now a days he gets more losses then wins(like Shiva)

Stalemated Black Widow in hindsight but it was Black Widow who passed out unconscious while Elektra left stealthily and easily because of what "she" did to her.

Stalemated Hercules who had a shield/sword. If this is her worst then you really fail to see the difference between Elektra/Shive here.

No offense to classic Shiva but hopefully NuDc Shiva get back on track.
Yeah, she beat a C level MA. What's there to bragg about that? He shot Daredevil before that, blindsided Cap in dark with a shovel and a lantern and got destroyed by DD once he was serious. Context buddy.

Widow got KOED because she was mortally wounded and was missing a vital organ. What did Elektra do to Widow here?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/139414/2691420-07_08_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/139414/2691425-09_super.jpg

Who other than Cass has beaten Shiva?

Oh I forgot, hercules is all of a sudden an A level martial artist because he stalemated Elektra, isn't he? Marvel fanboys makes me laugh at their transparency. You didn't comment at DD knocking her out in two panels though.

Elektra better watch out for Thing at this rate.

cdtm

Daredevil1

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, she beat a C level MA. What's there to bragg about that? He shot Daredevil before that, blindsided Cap in dark with a shovel and a lantern and got destroyed by DD once he was serious. Context buddy.

Widow got KOED because she was mortally wounded and was missing a vital organ. What did Elektra do to Widow here?

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/139414/2691420-07_08_super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/139414/2691425-09_super.jpg

Who other than Cass has beaten Shiva?

Oh I forgot, hercules is all of a sudden an A level martial artist because he stalemated Elektra, isn't he? Marvel fanboys makes me laugh at their transparency. You didn't comment at DD knocking her out in two panels though.

Elektra better watch out for Thing at this rate.

As for the Bullseye vs Cap IIRC going by memory Bullseye held his own and put Steve on the defense with his shield. Context is important but it doesn't change the fact that he was a threat. IIRC this C-lister as you put it held off both Daredevil and Elektra(Scroll retconned) at one time.

Wha? Let me get this right you think people rate hercules as a A-list in hand to hand martial artists and yet he was not even fighting Elektra on those terms.

Not sure how you are putting those two together. What I am seeing is Herc being proficient with a shield and sword. Plus most would argue that a shield and a long range sword has more advantages when fighting some one with small length weapons like a sai anyways. So I fail to see that as a very bad showing for Elektra especially since it was inconclusive.

Now the Black Widow vs Elektra I'll give you that I had forgotten that Widow was wounded prior to fighting Elektra. But again stalemate which is more impressive for BW considering her circumstances but again a inconclusive fight.

Which issue are you speaking about with Daredevil ko'ing Elektra? I guess I have been out of the loop for a while now.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Daredevil1
As for the Bullseye vs Cap IIRC going by memory Bullseye held his own and put Steve on the defense with his shield. Context is important but it doesn't change the fact that he was a threat. IIRC this C-lister as you put it held off both Daredevil and Elektra(Scroll retconned) at one time.

Wha? Let me get this right you think people rate hercules as a A-list in hand to hand martial artists and yet he was not even fighting Elektra on those terms.

Not sure how you are putting those two together. What I am seeing is Herc being proficient with a shield and sword. Plus most would argue that a shield and a long range sword has more advantages when fighting some one with small length weapons like a sai anyways. So I fail to see that as a very bad showing for Elektra especially since it was inconclusive.

Now the Black Widow vs Elektra I'll give you that I had forgotten that Widow was wounded prior to fighting Elektra. But again stalemate which is more impressive for BW considering her circumstances but again a inconclusive fight.

Which issue are you speaking about with Daredevil ko'ing Elektra? I guess I have been out of the loop for a while now.
Bullseye shoved a lantern in cap's eyes in the dark and injured his leg with a shovel with a surprise attack.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/CapBullseye1.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/CapBullseye2.jpg

Its a non-fight.

Because he was reading and preparing for them for months and knew about all their moves. Recently an absolutely exhausted DD destroyed him.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Daredevil086page19.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Daredevil086page20.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Daredevil086page21.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/Daredevil086page22.jpg

Punisher, a C level MA himself has destroyed Lester in h2h. Bullseye is nothing but a C level MA.

Sword-fighting is another measure of skill. Hercules stalemated her and that is humiliating for a supposedly A level MA. Nothing you could say would excuse that.

So a mortally wounded B level MA had Elektra at gun-point and you think that is excusable? LOL.

It was recent. I would check my comics.

Stranglehold300

Lady Shiva still wins this. I don't not know why certain people are trying to use Shiva losing to Cass as a low showing for Shiva when Cass would seriously wreck Elektra. Elektra's martial arts is mediocre compared to Shiva's and Cass.

Daredevil1

Originally posted by abhilegend
Bullseye shoved a lantern in cap's eyes in the dark and injured his leg with a shovel with a surprise attack.

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/CapBullseye1.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/CapBullseye2.jpg

Its a non-fight.

Bullseye can be dangerous at times, Cap was still in the fight and normally even with villans getting the advantage on Cap during the start of a fight. Steve normally prevails but this showed how lethal Bullseye could be.

The Punisher fight and that fight volume 4 of Ed's run I believe. Bullseye had more losses and wasn't as much of a threat as volume 1 when he had Killed Elektra and had Daredevil himself worried back then at times.

Now a days he isn't as great that's for sure. So my point still remains. And even now he still pulls some old volume 1 feats like stalemates both Daredevil himself with help from Elektra clone at the same time.

Not really since she didn't lost and it was inconclusive. All fights can change at a node.

Depends Elektra seemed to want to get a point across and at the end ordered her to fix this. Stalemate doesn't mean loss and its not like she was losing on points or got a beat down from her.

Now I was told the DD ko was via sneak attack. Could you elaborate or scans of the incident?

Anyways you asked for Shiva's other losses. Lets see...

First there's Prom.....who knocked her straight out in 3 secs.(He had other styles that Shiva didn't know)

Batman putting her down and out rather easily. Yes she might have been mind controlled but it doesn't mean she was not lethal....or competent.

Huntress beating down Shiva IIRC she spat at her eyes or something and gave Shiva a beat down.

Richard Dragon was beating Shiva until Shiva henchmen saved her and then Dragon lost the fight on purpose.

And of course both fights with Cass.

Curious do you have the scans of Daredevil knocking Elektra out and the page prior to see the context?

This has always been what I have thought of Shiva but her rep has finally exceeded her abilities, while Cass is the new Shiva even if she has some bad showings as well. But I view Cass more on equal terms with Elektra then I do Shiva.

Philosoph�a

Bullseye is B-list.
Black Widow is B-list.

Now watch Elektra's fights with them.

There's a reason Elektra was put up against Catwoman in DC vs Marvel.

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Well let's see. With Bullseye she got killed but in the rematch she beat him handily, once she quit holding back. Elektra beat him because she abandoned the way she fights, which threw Bullseye off.

http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=Bullseye48.jpg

It had nothing to do with her 'holding back' against him, in the way we use that term. Imagine fighting Captain America confidently knowing his style, then he starts grabbing you by the balls and biting your ears mid-fight. It's out of the blue and confusing.

Don't try to excuse her Black Widow showing. They were both obviously trying. If Elektra could have stopped her, she would have:
http://www.tumblr.com/photo/1280/marvelsladyliberators/847626704/1/tumblr_l5znu98GOU1qcrzob

Black Widow is B-level and that's not really disputable. I'm being a bit generous with that, but whatever. Her recent fight with Punisher painted her as pretty even, so B is good. Though her older fight with Bullseye paint her lower. On the other hand, Bullseye is Punisher's *****, so take that as it may:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-013.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-014.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-015.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-016.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-017.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-018.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_VFX-PunishvervsBullseye4-019.jpg

Philosoph�a

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Punisher001-19.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Punisher001-20.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Punisher001-21.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Punisher001-22.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Punisher001-23.jpg

Bullseye has even lost to Crossbones:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye33.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye34.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye35.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_Bullseye36.jpg

Elektra, Bullseye, Black Widow and Punisher are all B-level, with a rock, paper, scissors going on between them.

Daredevil1

I must say nice scans Philo. But I disagree.

If Elektra was a B-list.

She would not have stalemated Shang Chi one of marvels definitive best of the best. Which she has also stalemated at times Daredevil to even had him at Sai point stalemate.

Even outside of stalemating Shang and Daredevil. If that's not enough she has stalemated on occasion Logan who is a decent fighter with a incredible stat edge. Not to mention defeating Taskmaster before as well.

She has proven to be a A-list fighter with her record and like I stated defeating Bullseye handily in the rematch and then the time she was kidnapped, injured and poisoned and she still defeated Bullseye.

If Bullseye is a B-list(as you say) then he would stalemate Elektra but as you've shown she indeed defeated him and beat him badly while under a major handicapp the "other" time.

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I must say nice scans Philo. But I disagree.

If Elektra was a B-list.

She would not have stalemated Shang Chi one of marvels definitive best of the best. Which she has also stalemated at times Daredevil to even had him at Sai point stalemate.

Even outside of stalemating Shang and Daredevil. If that's not enough she has stalemated on occasion Logan who is a decent fighter with a incredible stat edge. Not to mention defeating Taskmaster before as well.

She has proven to be a A-list fighter with her record. You can't really call what Elektra and Shang Chi had as a fight ending in stalemate - they basically just took turns throwing stuff at eachother.

http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/?action=view&current=Elektra_Fights_Elektra_v1_16_06.jpg
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/?action=view&current=Elektra_Fights_Elektra_v1_16_07.jpg
http://s593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/?action=view&current=Elektra_Fights_Elektra_v1_16_08.jpg

That's 'meh' at best.

Daredevil has always had a soft spot for Elektra - and even so, I don't recall her ever having a clean skill win - there were either traps, Daredevil was injured or the fight got interrupted before reaching its end. Punisher and Bullseye give Daredevil fights, too - but they're still B-list.

Taskmaster is all over the place, and he is not above being beaten by non-A listers .

We can agree to disagree whether or not Elektra is B-list, or borderline A-list , but fact of the matter is Lady Shiva is the cream of the crop, in terms of skill. Elektra is not winning this.

iceman24567

Originally posted by Konton
It's funny you should mention Punisher, because she straight up embarrassed him. He couldn't even see Elektra steal his weapon from right out of his hands. Elektra is a step above everyone you mentioned. There's a reason Wolverine considers her the best damned ninja in the world. Yup and it isnt because of her overwhelming MA skills

Krewe

The only reason why Elektra is ever able to hang with Daredevil is because he loves her. Anyone who says that Elektra holds back because she feels the same way is full of shit, she kicked him so hard that she nearly broke his neck, and in another instance she kicked a pile of bricks on him while he was in a bear trap and left him to die, that is far from mutual, when Daredevl stopped holding back he took her down in 2 hits

Elektra is trash, she gets mutiliated in this fight

Daredevil1

Originally posted by Krewe
The only reason why Elektra is ever able to hang with Daredevil is because he loves her. Anyone who says that Elektra holds back because she feels the same way is full of shit, she kicked him so hard that she nearly broke his neck, and in another instance she kicked a pile of bricks on him while he was in a bear trap and left him to die, that is far from mutual, when Daredevl stopped holding back he took her down in 2 hits

Elektra is trash, she gets mutiliated in this fight

O...o seems like another sock. Elektra had Daredevil at sai point to the face before but didn't make the attempt, to even before Elektra got reconned as a Scrull, even that Elektra put a off gaurd Matt in a hold but instead putting him in a choke or sai in the head. She just held him in place.

So much for your "full of shit" comment.

Krewe

Not sure what a sock is but...Actually I'm glad you brought that up, before she got retconned into a Skrull Elektra and Daredevil fought Bullseye, Bullseye ended up beating on Elekta and nearly killing her before Daredevil saved her, then when they were fighting on the streets Elektra took more hits than anyone

Retcon aside it's clear the writers don't see Elektra as a threat to Bullseye or and eseiclaly Daredevil, he was even kicking her ass again until he got distracted and told his wife to run away.

Elektra is the absolute definition of a mediocre fighter. Oh well

Daredevil1

Originally posted by Krewe
Not sure what a sock is but...Actually I'm glad you brought that up, before she got retconned into a Skrull Elektra and Daredevil fought Bullseye, Bullseye ended up beating on Elekta and nearly killing her before Daredevil saved her, then when they were fighting on the streets Elektra took more hits than anyone

Retcon aside it's clear the writers don't see Elektra as a threat to Bullseye or and eseiclaly Daredevil, he was even kicking her ass again until he got distracted and told his wife to run away.

Elektra is the absolute definition of a mediocre fighter. Oh well

Glad you brought that up even further. As not only did that Bullseye do well against Elektra. But at that specific time he held off both Daredevil and Elektra at the same time.

But like I said a weakened, injured, and poisoned Elektra defeated Bullseye rather easily in the end. So its clear writers see Elektra as a threat to Bullseye even while she is in a severely weakened state. Oh well.....too well.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Bullseye can be dangerous at times, Cap was still in the fight and normally even with villans getting the advantage on Cap during the start of a fight. Steve normally prevails but this showed how lethal Bullseye could be. He looks dangerous due to his projectiles. His MA skills are C level at best. You can try to excuse it all you want, it doesn't matter.

Because he learned all of their moves. It wasn't because he was much of a fighter, he could predict all their moves. He's the same guy overall.

He was destroyed by an exhausted DD. Like I said, you can try to excuse his showings all you want.

It was a mortal herc stalemating Elektra. Its humiliating as hell.

laughing out loud

Another excuse? Keep it coming.

I would try.

Prometheus is a beast. That's like saying losing to amazo is a low showing.

Mindcontrolled characters under-perform all the time. Dismissed.

So, disabling her vision and then beating her? Scans of the fight please. Not a valid example either.

Richard Dragon? Are you being serious here? Next yo would say losing to karate kid is a low showing.

The only valid example. So we got what? Prometheus, Batman, Huntress, Cass an RICHARD ****ING DRAGON. Certainly less skilled than Hercules, Bullseye, Black Widow, Kuruyama I guess. Could you be anymore biased?

I would try.

Like I said, you can't be anymore biased if you tried. Congrats.

Krewe

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Glad you brought that up even further. As not only did that Bullseye do well against Elektra. But at that specific time he held off both Daredevil and Elektra at the same time.

But like I said a weakened, injured, and poisoned Elektra defeated Bullseye rather easily in the end. So its clear writers see Elektra as a threat to Bullseye even while she is in a severely weakened state. Oh well.....too well. Nonsense, Bullseye only lasted as long as he did because Elektra was getting in the way, in fact at one point in that fight Daredevil ended up hitting Elektra

Elektra was weakened but Bullseye was holding back on her so it all balances it out, but even so, we have Bullseye dominating her on at least 3 occassions where at the very best she was able to beat him one time when he was holding back

History shows that Bullseye>>Elektra

Daredevil1

Originally posted by Krewe
Nonsense, Bullseye only lasted as long as he did because Elektra was getting in the way, in fact at one point in that fight Daredevil ended up hitting Elektra

Elektra was weakened but Bullseye was holding back on her so it all balances it out, but even so, we have Bullseye dominating her on at least 3 occassions where at the very best she was able to beat him one time when he was holding back

History shows that Bullseye>>Elektra

To my knowledge Bullseye only beat Elektra conclusively "once" and in the beginning.

Elektra defeated Bullseye the other times.

The one that you claim she beat was not even the real Elektra.

So history shows that Elektra>>>>Bullseye. Bullseye good but lets not be telling lies now.

YFZ 350

I'm going with Elektra.

Krewe

Originally posted by Daredevil1
To my knowledge Bullseye only beat Elektra conclusively "once" and in the beginning.

Elektra defeated Bullseye the other times.

The one that you claim she beat was not even the real Elektra.

So history shows that Elektra>>>>Bullseye. Bullseye good but lets not be telling lies now. He beat her in Millers run, he was kicking her ass in her own series before she switched styles, he was kicking her ass when he fought Daredevil and her at the same time, and was about to kill her before Daredevil saved her, and was casually toying with her in Dark Reign

So history shows us that Lester has always held the edge over Elektra

Daredevil1

Originally posted by abhilegend
He looks dangerous due to his projectiles. His MA skills are C level at best. You can try to excuse it all you want, it doesn't matter.

So even Daredevil commenting he's too dangerous, giving Cap problems, to killing someone that stalemates Daredevil. This is a C to you back then. Now a days your right and he has gone down. But back then. I disagree with you.

I'm not excusing it. Back in volume one he was a thread....now a days.....not so much. But even now a days he can pull some flukes. So my point of him killing Elektra still stands.

Stalemate which is inconclusive. Plus its not like Elektra was trying to kill the guy notice even when she became invisible she did not try to really incapacitate him.

C'mon man. I already stated that showing was more impressive for "Black Widow" in comparison to Elektra. I don't mind be corrected abi....it was you who reminded me that BW was injured to begin with. As I was wrong about that.

But let's not forget BW is a enhanced female with a SSS variant along with nano tech in her body.

I agree with you Prom is a beast. But how far. Many are beasts ab. Logan is a beast, Super Soldier Cap is a monster. But how far Abi......he is no Pre Crisis Karate Kid.....now. As most other A-lists from DC have fought his other version and done better then 3 secs. Even Huntress put him down(not out) and another dodged his attacks. As Batman did even better then Shiva against his other version from the past.

Let's face it Shiva just got owned in that scene.

Cool would like to see it.

Covered above.

Not always the case ab. Mind controlled or drug controlled can be actually more dangerous or even blood lusted. Like Ironman was against Cap or Ironfist was against Black Panther. Slade drugging Cass to keep her a incredible fighter on his side.

I don't dismiss unless stated it hindered her abilities

The fight was inconclusive but it looked bad for Shiva. It happened during hunter prey. I'll see if I can find you the issue number. Shiva is good but her stock has dropped in my eyes.

It all adds up guy. Batman, Prom, Dragon, even Huntress, and Cass twice. Dragon as well is good but Elektra has stalemated her version of Dragon in Shang-Chi.

Bullseye irrelevent since Elektra proved to be his superior. Black Widow a Super Soldier agent that is enhanced while injured stalemated Elektra. Impressive like I stated but the fight was inconclusive. Herc stalemate again inconclusive. Kuruyama could be Stick level for all we know since she was shown to be at a master level. Its not like we've seen her fight the other A-lists to gauge her.

Again no real losses like Shiva.

I don't think I'm being biased. Because I give Elektra odds over Shiva or note her bad losses? I also give Cass and Batman odds over Shiva now.

While she loses to top names Elektra has stalemated them or won back in the rematch.

Daredevil1

Originally posted by Krewe
He beat her in Millers run, he was kicking her ass in her own series before she switched styles, he was kicking her ass when he fought Daredevil and her at the same time, and was about to kill her before Daredevil saved her, and was casually toying with her in Dark Reign

So history shows us that Lester has always held the edge over Elektra

Some biased views there. He did beat her in Millers. Switching styles is irreverent she then defeated Bullseye as your key word for Bullseye is the only thing right..."was". Daredevil saved Skrull Elektra not the real "one" as even that Bullseye performed incredible.

Dark Reign a injured poison Elektra wrecked Bullseye.

Your history is wrong as Elektra showed to be superior to Bullseye in the end.

cdtm

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Daredevil_168-19_zps271f9adb.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/24823/744013-515269_02210_super_super.jpg

Hmm.. http://www.lmbbox.com/wp-content/plugins/lmbbox-smileys/smileys/tb/ponder.gif

SamZED

Originally posted by cdtm
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v330/CDTM3000/Daredevil_168-19_zps271f9adb.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/24823/744013-515269_02210_super_super.jpg

Hmm.. http://www.lmbbox.com/wp-content/plugins/lmbbox-smileys/smileys/tb/ponder.gif
laughing out loud

^ That's not really fair but had to be done.

Daredevil1

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6854/elektraspeedmachinegun.jpg

They both have good bullet feats.

Same old cdtm.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Daredevil1
So even Daredevil commenting he's too dangerous, giving Cap problems, to killing someone that stalemates Daredevil. This is a C to you back then. Now a days your right and he has gone down. But back then. I disagree with you. Yes. He's dangerous due to projectiles. He's always been a C lister MA. Evn back then Punisher who is himself a C lister MA destroyed him in h2h. DD commented that on his aiming skills and he practically ambushed Cap damaging both his vision and leg. Not impressive.

Being a threat and being a capable MA isn't the same. GA is more dangerous than Nightwing due to his arrows. Doesn't mean he's a better MA.

And? Its ****ing hercules. If that happened to a DC MA you would've been touting it as the most relevant fight ever. Most characters don't go for killing at start.

She was mortally wounded and still stalemated Elektra. A B list MA while missing a vital organ stalemated her. Ponder on that.

It was mostly a skill fight. She was heavily wounded too.

Not in pure skills, they are not. All other versions were revealed as another prometheus not the original one in Cry for Justice or some such.

Yeah, she was. Nothing to be ashamed about.

I'm still trying to find it.

Under Grodd's mind control, it is always the case. Dismissed.

Like cap being troubled by a C lister after his vision was disabled, its not that a bad showing.

Shang is no dragon, not even close. Like I said, you would be saying Captain america or wolverine are KK level next. Cass dropped unconscious after the first loss and in other Shiva flat out killed her. Its not much to see the second loss was flat out bad writing.

Nope, being killed by a C lister is not irrelevant because you later beat him. A mortally wounded B lister stalemated her. Its embarrassing. Its still embarrassing. C'mon. You really think that's how comics work?

Shiva has only lost to A listers not being killed by a C lister. You can try to excuse that showing as much you want, it would still be more humiliating than all of shiva's losses combined. A C lister MA directly outfought her and killed her with her own sai, what is more humiliating than that?

That's nothing to with being biased. I called you biased because you are touting low showings for one character which aren't actually low showings and then are trying to excuse actual low showings for another character.

See, this is why you're biased. Later showings don't erase the earlier showings.

namorsubby

Shiva.

Daredevil1

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes. He's dangerous due to projectiles. He's always been a C lister MA. Evn back then Punisher who is himself a C lister MA destroyed him in h2h. DD commented that on his aiming skills and he practically ambushed Cap damaging both his vision and leg. Not impressive.

Impressive to me. Steve is not joe, your talking about a Super Soldier here ab. Plus what did you want Bullseye to do? Walk right up to him in the dark.....and then say out loud we will start fighting at exactly 1 minute?

That was a impressive all considering.

This I agree but for me it's a moot point. Bullseye skills are with weapons.... any weapon or anything he can grab to use. Like a flash light to even a tooth pick. To even use a gun at times. His skills with weapons is why I have him at A-list back then. A-list doesn't just mean HtH. He's definitely not a C-list.

Also in DD 141 Bullseye stalemated Daredevil as well. He later outsmarted DD and takes him out via sneakery air planet but before that that fight was pretty even.

He has some losses for sure like Shiva but he makes up for it as well.

Like stalemating DD and Elektra at the same time. Of his stalemating Deadpool or IIRC having the advantage on Deadpool.

Also here Bullseye defeats DD in V2. Borrowed these links from vine. Unfortunately I don't have the full book with me but I don't remember DD being injured.(anyone know the issue number for these?)
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/113563/2450853-Daredevilv2005-14.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/113563/2450854-Daredevilv2005-15.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/113563/2450855-Daredevilv2005-16.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/11/113563/2450856-Daredevilv2005-17.jpg

It isn't Elektra's best highlight thats for sure but it's a stalemate.

She was wounded. I admit but it was a fight and in that fight it's a enhanced character with nano tech in her system. Again not her best showing but a stalemate.

Its not like this happened. A stalemate but Shiva took a thrashing and got knocked down.

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3654/1511682shivavshuntresss.jpg

Prom is hit and miss on effectiveness. I mean even the version that took out Shiva was then put down by Huntress and the the other bird of prey finished him off.

Even the original Prom that was considered the most competent, Batman was gaining an edge on him at one time. IIRC he had to use gas or a gas gun to get away from Batman. To other versions have had trouble with Green Arrow or Roy Harper at times.

Well everyone losses that's for sure. But it's the way she lost IMO.

How so? I'll drop if it there's a reference it that particular story? As mind control is not always the case.

IIRC it was a stalemate with someone as dangerous as Bullseye and considering his exotic weapons skills. Definitely not a C-list.

From memory Dragon had the advantage on Shiva, Bronze Tiger(but he noted Bronze age is catching up to him) and stalemated Connor and Batman. Is that really superior to Shang's? Plus he lacks a lot of Shang's exoctic feats in martial arts. Not close......not to far if you ask me.

It's your right to believe so. But being killed by Bullseye, considering Elektra herself has always stalemated Daredevil. It speaks more for Bullseye.

Embarrassing stalemated BW(while wounded) isn't that bad considering she is enhanced not your normal person anyhow.

Exactly my point she has lost to A listers while Elektra has stalemated or defeated A listers.

Accept Bullseye is no C-lister and his weapons skills are practically A or even S category. No C-lister is going to hold off Daredevil and Scroll Elektra at the same time nor stalemate DD nor defeat Daredevil himself.

Past showing don't always show current level of skills. Characters, change and improve and evolve. Lets pretend your right and Bullseye is a C-lister. Elektra has fought him and defeated him to the point that the next time she beat him while in so much of a handicap. She showed she it that much better then him.

Of course the past fights count but that fight does not diminish her currently on who is the better fighter.

abhilegend

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Impressive to me. Steve is not joe, your talking about a Super Soldier here ab. Plus what did you want Bullseye to do? Walk right up to him in the dark.....and then say out loud we will start fighting at exactly 1 minute?

That was a impressive all considering. No, its not. Damaging steve's leg and impairing his sight to hold him off for some moments is not impressive. Its mediocre at best.

He outfought elektra in skills, not in weapons. In MA he's always been a C lister. Anybody who gets destroyed in h2h by ****ing punisher is C list by default.

Because he has learned about DD, not that he's skilled enough to stalemate him.

You are comparing Shiva to Bullseye now?

That was due to him having learned all the moves of theirs, not due to skills. Deadpool is just too variable to use as a reference. At best he's a B level MA.

He was weakened due to constantly fighting through the enemies for days before that and was out of his mind because he was drugged by Mysterio and his senses were scrambled. The next time they met Matt beat the shit out of Bullseye in moments.

Its not the best, its the worst. Stalemated by phucking hercules? LOL.

She was MORTALLY wounded. Doesn't means anything if she is enhanced or not, being mortally wounded would hamper her much. Its embarrassing.

So she blinded shiva and was commenting how she can't beat shiva and you think that's a bad showing? Hercules anyone?

I don't think that's what happened. TBF its been a long time since I read that story, scans would be appreciated.

The Batgod of Morrison would do that to anyone. Prom flat out humiliated him though and he was beating a prepared batman again.

Bad writing. That's what we call PIS in the forums.

Yeah, superman noticed that. Grodd's victims always underperform though, so that's not the case here.

Nope, just like you showed even a less skilled fighter can stalemate a more skilled one if his vision is disabled.

Anybody who can dismiss Batman as a "Promising Amateur" is far beyond Shang-chi. Batman is not bullseye, he's a standard of fighters as much as superman is for strength. Marvel fanboys might think that every street level character from marvel is more skilled than him (I've seen people giving punisher wins over him) it wouldn't be true.

ABC logic doesn't work here. Elektra being killed by bullseye is her and only her humiliating defeat by a C lister MA.

She was mortally wounded, its embarrassing.

The only loss worth mentioning is from the second fight with Cass who fell unconscious after that. A true stalemate if there was one. Who are all these A listers who have been defeated by Elektra BTW?

He's a C lister from start and his skills with weapons wouldn't change anything. Context with the fight with DD and Elektra and the fight with DD. Elektra is herself a B lister, so I don't get surprised for that.

Yeah and that means what exactly? She got killed by a C lister and then beat him. Its not much ti bragg about. If you get beat by a child in fist fight and then beat him later, it wouldn't do good for your reputation.

Elektra is a better fighter than Bullseye, Shiva is FAR better than Elektra though.

Konton

Originally posted by Daredevil1
To my knowledge Bullseye only beat Elektra conclusively "once" and in the beginning.

Elektra defeated Bullseye the other times.

The one that you claim she beat was not even the real Elektra.

So history shows that Elektra>>>>Bullseye. Bullseye good but lets not be telling lies now.

3 Elektra vs Bullseye fights I can think of.

1. Classic DD + Elektra fight where he had plot armor and she died.

2. Bullseye also specifically trained FOR Elektra in their second big fight in Elektra v2. Fighting holograms of her in action for an extended period of time with lots of prep and then she still beat him by fighting in an unorthodox style he didn't expect while protecting civilians.

3. Dark Reign, where he had huge advantages and she kicked his ass.

Why is this guy so obsessed with her ONE loss to Bullseye that happened decades ago?

Philosoph�a

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Which there fight is a stalemate and exactly what I stated. Shang is a prominent fighter so, I doubt you can take much out of that. Especially since they were using lethal weapons to try and impale one another. Indeed Elektra stalemated him like I stated. That wasn't a fight. They each threw something at eachother and blocked it.It doesn't say anything about how an actual fight would go between them, much less about their skill level - other than the fact that they're good enough to block projectiles (Shang Chi using a table to do so).

http://s593.beta.photobucket.com/user/elektrarespectthread/media/Elektra_Fights_Elektra_v1_16_06.jpg.html
http://s593.beta.photobucket.com/user/elektrarespectthread/media/Elektra_Fights_Elektra_v1_16_07.jpg.html

They weren't both using lethal weapons either

Don't be absurd. Your argument is thin as it is, you don't want me to start making fun of it.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
That goes vice a versa. As Elektra has a soft spot for DD as well as she did have DD at sai point in once encounter that you forget. They give DD fights Puni or Bullsey but DD normaly defeats them in the end. So my statement still stands with Elektra and DD both stalemating one another. Unlike with DD vs Puni or Bullseye. If you feel you have a fight where Elektra beat Daredevil fair and square, please post it. If it's another one where she lays traps, Daredevil's feelings are clearly stated as impending in judgement or something similar, don't bother. I've read them all.

Yes, Daredevil normally defeats them in the end. But that says nothing about Elektra, who gets into stalemates with B-list Black Widow, or exchanges wins with Bullseye. Punisher? Yes, she proved to be faster than him. So did Black Widow. The same Black Widow who stalemated Elektra recently. The same Black Widow who lost to Bullseye. The same Bullseye who lost to Punisher. The same Punisher who beat Bullseye.

Rock. Paper. Scissors.

With Daredevil being the Ultimate Nullifier. Because he is A-list, and they're B-list.

(if you don't get the reference, read FF)

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And yet he has had the upperhand on Cap but inclusive fights with him in the end. Defeated the Cat(Shang's rival easily), even defeated Elektra herself once, but Elektra beat him back "easily." What part of "he is all over the place" was miscommunicated? Taskmaster can go from getting beaten by B-lists, to humiliating them, to outfighting Captain America. If consistency was a character, he'd be his evil brother.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
You can disagree just like I disagree that Shiva isn't the top notch like she once was, as her final showings were anything but stellar. In terms of skill and over all record Shiva has gone down more then Elektra. Shiva is not winning this but you can disagree. Not at all, Shiva is consistently A-list. Elektra's A-list showings, on the other hand, are there only if you squint.

cdtm

Originally posted by Konton

Why is this guy so obsessed with her ONE loss to Bullseye that happened decades ago?

Same reason "that guy" is obsessed with Shiva' s low ends, probably. sad

Although calling a humiliation by Cassandra Cain a low-end feat on the level of a loss to Bullseye says as much about his low opinion of Cass as it does anything else..

Daredevil1

Originally posted by abhilegend
No, its not. Damaging steve's leg and impairing his sight to hold him off for some moments is not impressive. Its mediocre at best.

Considering Steve is one of the best and is a super soldier its a good showing for both since it was a stalemate.

He out fought Elektra the first time true. But he used a slicing card on her neck before he used her sai as well IIRC. Lets say your right and he is a C list by default. But his inante skills our always with weapons anyways.

DD had a chance now to adapt to him as well. Besides it was a stalemate.

To a certain extent but to different degrees. Your yourself put Bullseye at a C because he lost to Pun(B-list) in hth.

So by your logic Shiva lost to Cass(A list) so by your logic Shiva, and then lost terribly to her the next time. So going that route B-list Shiva.

Bullseye did very well and stalemated Daredevil who had aid from Elektra the both know Bullseye abilities well to. I agree with you Deadpool is a variable but considering his power-set. Not to shabby.

He was drugged as to be protective/paranoid about the infant. I just got done looking at the back issues briefly and DD was not really injured nor mental drained badly. In fact Dr. Strange had cured DD from the drug. As he seemed good to go.

A very impressive victory for Bullseye the so called C-lister.

Yes it is Hercules. Despite his name it's not such a terrible showing.

Noted that she was wounded severely but doesn't change what BW is.

Yes she blinded her in the fight using her own blood spit, as then she hit Shiva enough times to knock her down and gain a advantage.

Herc seemed to have the better weapons for combat and all he got was a stalemate.

I was incorrect on the finished him "off" part. But the rest was right. Gypsy dodged his punch and avoided him.(while shiva lost in 3 secs) Huntress blocked his attack with her cross bows but was kicked down on the ground and then attacked again and was hurt. Prom got close to him and Huntress punched him in the groin and he went down like Frazier. Gypsy took advantage of it and hit him with his own weapon.

But he was up again and reclaimed his weapon. After that Huntress told him to just leave because they can't stop him. He agreed but stated that Huntress herself gave him more problems then Superman. (They both compliment one another)

But Huntress individually and Gypsy seemed more on point then even Shiva.

Batgod....eh....... So you don't think Batman should have done that good against Prom?

Oh and would you call PIS to the moments your trying to use for Elektra I wonder?

But it was Grodd who notice how well they could be even the weaker ones as, as Nightshade or some lady in Black(I forget her name). Batman had to save Superman from her. As Superman noted it would not be easy against Mongul until he took the dials up.

If there is a comment in that arch that stated they were underperformed? What number?

Difference is catching someone with spit, is more unexpected then your normally of being incredible with any weapon in your hands.

Besides Bullseye also not only killed Elektra, but defeated DD, and stalemated DD another time as well to boot.

I don't see why you view Richard above Shang. He's record doesn't seem superior nor his skill feats for sure. Punisher is good with prep and has incredible damage soak. But I agree that Batman would win the majority if not every time.

Accept that C lister has defeated Daredevil, Elektra, and held them both off at another time by himself. Definitely not a C lister.

Stalemated a enhanced agent. It's not like she took the type of thrashing that Shiva got. There both not so good feat correct. But Shiva looks the worse because what happened to her.

More stalemates then defeats. IIRC she defeated Taskmaster and Silver Samurai who was upgraded IIRC.

Elektra is a A-lister as she has stalemated or had advantages on A listers. Context doesn't help you on Bullseye defeating Daredevil in vol 2#5(though he is better) nor Bullseye holding his own against DD/Scrull Elektra.

Disagree and covered above.

I disagree and think Elektra is better then Shiva.

namorsubby

Showing a few of Shivas shortcomings does nothing to change the fact that she is a better and more skilled fighter than Elektra. Admit that

cdtm

Originally posted by namorsubby
Showing a few of Shivas shortcomings does nothing to change the fact that she is a better and more skilled fighter than Elektra. Admit that

And Cass would wtfrapestomp Elektra and Bullseye anyways.

Konton

If we go by feats, Elektra wins.

She has dodged sniper rifle gunfire AFTER it was shot, using only the muzzle flash as a warning. She's got bullet timer feats up the wazoo, Shiva doesn't.

Strength feats? She has Shiva beat there too. While drugged she tore her way out of a straight jacket. She's kicked down massive steel doors, thrown her sai with such force and accuracy that it not only plugged her opponents gun, but also ripped his hand off. She throws grown men around into the air like they were made of paper. She was strong enough to cut through the toughest materials SHIELD could gather in the form of a psychotic android. Remember when she broke out of that SHIELD facility by spitting her tooth (while completely restrained) down Paladin's throat before ramming a blunt pole through his abdomen? Paladin has superhuman durability, by the by.

Speed? She moves so fast that cameras can't see her. Punisher couldn't stop her from taking his gun and killing his targets before he gets to them. She blitzed the X-Mansion and kidnapped Polaris.

Endurance? Elektra, while drugged, starved, and delirious is faster than a cobra. Also faster than Bullseye under near the same conditions, plus poisoned.

Durability? Elektra got right back up after being slammed into a mail box by Luke Cage. She took on multiple Super Skrulls at the same time, only going down after taking MULTIPLE blows from Skrull Colossus, which is CRAZY.

Plus, she has her silent scream, enhanced healing, complete anatomical control (can stop pain and blood loss just by focusing), her telepathic feedback is enough to cause brain hemorrhaging, etc.

Shiva's done what? All I remember her doing is beating up Robin and suckerpunching Bronze Tiger. Richard Dragon was winning in their fight until Shiva's goons got in the way. Got owned by Prometheus. Lost to her daughter a few times. She has a better reputation than she has track record.

juggernaut74

Originally posted by Konton

thrown her sai with such force and accuracy that it not only plugged her opponents gun, but also ripped his hand off. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. laughing

Konton

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Strength/th_Elektra_Strength_Elektra_v2_01_32.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Strength/th_Elektra_Strength_Elektra_v2_01_36.jpg

Oh, and that's not all. She threw it hard enough to rip off his hand and propel it through a layer of kevlar, through his body, and out the other side.

Also impressive:

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Strength/th_Elektra_Strength_Elektra_v2_06_12.jpg

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Strength/th_Elektra_Strength_Elektra_v2_12_17.jpghttp://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/Strength/th_Elektra_Strength_Elektra_v2_12_18.jpg

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/th_Elektra_Fights_Daredevil_v2_078_06.jpg

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/elektrarespectthread/th_Elektra_Fights_Daredevil_179_20.jpg

Konton

Originally posted by jinzin
Elektra shows decent strength easily snapping chains that hold her to the ground even without the leverage of her feet.
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/th_chains.jpg

Elektra's explosive power as she easily kicks down/ caves in two massive golden doors.
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/th_doorkick.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/th_doorkick2.jpg

Crushes a man's head with her grip strength.
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/th_facecrusher.jpghttp://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/th_facecrusher2.jpg

Easily hoists a man into the air with one arm after carrying him up a later and having been on the run for 1 hour.

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/th_minimalstrength.jpg

More incredibly explosive strength as she's able to swiftly move UNDERWATER faster than the ey can follow killing multiple Hand members around her before they could even defend themselves.
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/th_underwater1.jpghttp://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu345/jinzin2008/th_underwater2.jpg

juggernaut74

That's some weird stuff.

leonidas

based on the feats on display here, it would seem to me elektra wins.

Golgo13

I think this fight can go either way.

namorsubby

Shiva still.

Konton

Originally posted by namorsubby
Shiva still.

Any feats you might want to share that put her anywhere near Elektra physically?

Only things I can think of are her PIS flavored Shadowdragon encounter and these:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva212.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva213.jpghttp://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva214.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/th_LadyShiva156.jpg

The latter of which being really stupid.

Has she ever even dodged a bullet?

namorsubby

Has anyone ever not dodged a bullet?

Id say her skill has more to do with it than her physical stats.

Damborgson

Originally posted by namorsubby
Has anyone ever not dodged a bullet?

thumb up

Comics have shat on bullets, missles, nukes, etc.

Konton

Originally posted by namorsubby
Has anyone ever not dodged a bullet?

Id say her skill has more to do with it than her physical stats.

Barbara.

stick out tongue

I mean yeah Shiva is skilled, but since Elektra's resurrection she hasn't lost to anybody in a straight up fight. Unless you count Gorgon, which is to be expected - what with the huge stat disadvantage and all. There was also Taskmaster but their first encounter was more psychological because he was using Daredevil's fighting style to **** with her head.

They're definitely in the same league, they both embarres slightly below A list fighters (Catwoman and Huntress for Shiva; Domino, Punisher, Taskmaster in their second encounter (while fighting a teleporter and some other dude at the same time), Silver Samurai (class 10 btw), Bullseye, Razorfist, Zaran, Fatale for Elektra).

If the skill level is that close and the stats are largely weighted in Elektra's favor... idk I don't see Shiva taking a majority. Throw in Elektra's more exotic mystic ninja telepathy and then I really don't see it.

She can crush a mans skull with one hand using just her grip strength. What's to say she doesn't just get a hand on Shiva, and she's more than capable of that, and snap her bones?

Keep in mind this is a forum fight and she's fighting without plot restraints. Might have saved Black Widow in her own book when she wasn't serious, but we're operating on a different field of play here.