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http://io9.com/5988376/the-12-worst-things-in-the-star-wars-expanded-universe

the **** a droid that can use the force

Wow, I now know about the unsung hero skippy the droid. Thanks for that.

Eh, I got the impression Skippy the Droid was done as a joke and the author didn't intend it to be taken seriously, so I'm not sure I'd count that.*

When it mentioned the Jedi Prince series, my reaction was, "Hey, it had the Mofference!"

Then they said, "Honestly, the only good thing about the Jedi Prince series is the reveal that Moffs hold Mofferences, which is so horrifyingly awful it comes out the other side to awesome."

So, yea, I'm ok there

Huh, they listed Bendorion? Personally I don't mind the odd unusual species becoming Jedi, I find it pretty cool... though, yea, having him around post-purge, and have him fall to the darkside because stereotypes, was weak.

Also, unlike what the article writers assume, the Holiday Special is still technically canon.



PS The Mofference was held on the Moff ship.

It's actually Beldorion, but poor grammar aside, that article's spot on. I'd never heard of "Hoar" but that one's kinda funny.

Originally posted by Q99
Eh, I got the impression Skippy the Droid was done as a joke and the author didn't intend it to be taken seriously, so I'm not sure I'd count that.*


Oh I got that but I like such stories like Tag and Bink where unknown or small characters end up playing a larger role/help things come to be without knowing. I guess Skippy just plays to what I like.

I'd nominate the following for inclusion:

Dark Empire
The Old Republic
Any book with Drew Karpyshyn's name on it
Fate of the Jedi
The Crystal Star
The Mortis arc in particular, but plenty of TCW episodes
Jedi Trial
KotOR II
The Hand of Thrawn duology
Outbound Flight

The Crystal Star is in there.

GOD, all suck. I can't believe I love SW.

I'll come up with a real list later but let me start with one name to rule them all: Darth Caedus. Whackist Sith-Lord wannabe to come down the pipeline. Waste of a character and so much potential.

Ben Skywalker is also on my list. One freaking annoying action after another.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'd nominate the following for inclusion:


KotOR II http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwujnryxwf1qg1yal.jpg

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I'd nominate the following for inclusion:

Dark Empire
The Old Republic
Any book with Drew Karpyshyn's name on it
Fate of the Jedi
The Crystal Star
The Mortis arc in particular, but plenty of TCW episodes
Jedi Trial
KotOR II
The Hand of Thrawn duology
Outbound Flight



KOTOR2 and Fate of the Jedi especially.

No, the The Crystal Star especially.

That s*** literally makes me sad. It couldn't possibly be more awful.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
No, the The Crystal Star especially.

That s*** literally makes me sad. It couldn't possibly be more awful.

I beg to differ. It didn't have Drew Karpyshyn's name on it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I beg to differ. It didn't have Drew Karpyshyn's name on it.

Even though I don't like his stuff either, I'm going to have to side with Col. Valerian on this one.

Crystal Star had extra dimensional goo. Even Karpy never went full retard.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The Hand of Thrawn duology

Huh, I thought all the Thrawn stuff was good.

The hell you say?



Dark side tentacles. ahuh



You were under the impression that the Thrawn stuff was good or you read it all and in your opinion they are all good?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The hell you say?


You heard. biscuits

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Dark side tentacles. ahuh Slender Man would make a wonderful Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Slender Man would make a wonderful Sith Lord.

Well, Darth Sidious is slender, I suppose. In a very masculine way.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The hell you say?



Dark side tentacles. ahuh


Extradimensional goo cult. That Luke joins.

Originally posted by Q99
Extradimensional goo cult. That Luke joins.

If you found extradimensional, omnipotent goo, wouldn't you join its cult?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
You were under the impression that the Thrawn stuff was good or you read it all and in your opinion they are all good?

The first. Almost everyone I've heard talk about it says that Thrawn was an awesome part of the EU.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The first. Almost everyone I've heard talk about it says that Thrawn was an awesome part of the EU. The duology, though? He wasn't even really in it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The first. Almost everyone I've heard talk about it says that Thrawn was an awesome part of the EU.

Thrawn's great as long as you don't buy into the long percolating cult of personality surrounding him in the EU. Remember, Thrawn is the proto-Revan: a figure of enigmatic brilliance and ambiguous morality. The stupid and the insecure flock to him like ants to sugar.

The Thrawn Trilogy was great (not perfect, mind you, but great) because Thrawn was introduced as a threatening presence who was nonetheless fallible in the extreme. Thwarted by Lando Calrissian, duped by C'baoth, foiled by his own bodyguard, etc.

Zahn started to buy too much into his own hype and, in the Hand of Thrawn duology, the rumor of Thrawn's resurrection is sufficient to nearly implode the New Republic. It was the beginning of the end, for all mentions of Thrawn by Zahn afterwards were aggrandized in the extreme.

Outbound Flight read like a piece of 30's German propaganda. The amount of Thrawn cock Zahn sucked writing that book is unimaginable.

Yeah, the book was terrible. That's why I lol pretty hard when people fall to their knees before the Zahn altar. He hasn't put out a good one since The Last Command.

Now, Sean Stewart's Dark Rendezvous... the standard for quality SW writing.

A thing about Thrawn is his image of perfection is something purposefully crafted in-universe. He makes mistakes, quite a few of them, and he especially has a blindspot for less military foes. However, the perception made others nervous which in turn served him.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If you found extradimensional, omnipotent goo, wouldn't you join its cult?

It was hardly omnipotent. It had healing abilities and was allied with a darksider.

+Vaapad

Crystal Star is outstrips anything by far. Her another book is "Allies". While it was readable she managed to describe supposed to be one of the best fights of FotJ in a way that I was still clueless of what was going on in that fight.

Karpyshyn books are actually readable and I actually enjoyed reading Revan. Only after, when you start analyzing events and evaluating feats, you realize what a bullcrap it is. It's like AotC, you like it at first but then realize how many flaws it has.

Jedi Prince. At that point I just started reading SW books. I literally forced myself to read these series for the sake of continuity only to find out that they are non-canon.

Red Harvest. The book is basically about zombies. While I don't mind zombies, the book started by introducing characters only them to be killed without any purpose or benefit for the story.

RotS novel. Specifically all that center of the universe, pristine clarity, superconducting loop and avatar of light overly colorful descriptions that simply make no sense.

Apocalypse. While I like Troy Denning in general, especially how he portrays combat, this book was generally boring. Alana shooting down several Sith Sabers with blaster was the most stupid part.

Lost Tribe of the Sith series. All boring but one with love story.

Jaina Solo's romances. Simply can't recall more non-romantic romances than hers. :/

TCW movie and first episodes. Stupid story arc in movie. First episodes had no real purpose, just separate war events and nothing that would make you hold your breath and low characterization, still enjoyed them as SW geek but that's the only reason.

Bane books trilogy just to make it 12. I didn't even read it. But, when on digging feats I discovered that Karpyshin portrayed Force statis from game, that sealed the deal.

Originally posted by Arhael
Red Harvest. The book is basically about zombies. While I don't mind zombies, the book started by introducing characters only them to be killed without any purpose or benefit for the story. So... a typical zombie story then?

TCW TV show and movie.
The Force Unleashed Game series.
Most of the comics imo, not including the stuff by KJA.
Jedi Prince series.
The Holiday Special.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So... a typical zombie story then?

Apparently there was also a talking flower in it...

Originally posted by ares834
Apparently there was also a talking flower in it... Hmm... sounds familiar.

Quite frankly, the EU has some good points. But like fanfiction, the majority of material is simply not close to the masterpieces the movies were (regardless of which trilogy you liked better).

Originally posted by Vensai
Quite frankly, the EU has some good points. But like fanfiction, the majority of material is simply not close to the masterpieces the movies were (regardless of which trilogy you liked better). "Masterpiece" is a strong word for even the Originals. But to remotely equate it with the Prequels... that's just... ugh.

Ironically, the best of the EU is localized around the prequels.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
"Masterpiece" is a strong word for even the Originals. But to remotely equate it with the Prequels... that's just... ugh.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ironically, the best of the EU is localized around the prequels.

Yea. And the worst EU is often around the originals.

Say what you will for the prequels, but they firmly establish, "This is what Jedi look like, this is how they fight. It's not about magic-y powers or aliens-of-the-week or Luke learning the latest new force power."

Originally posted by Q99
Yea. And the worst EU is often around the originals.



Though the Old Republic era gives it stiff competition.

Originally posted by Q99
Say what you will for the prequels, but they firmly establish, "This is what Jedi look like, this is how they fight. It's not about magic-y powers or aliens-of-the-week or Luke learning the latest new force power."

I believe the success of the EU surrounding the prequels owes more to Palpatine.

that's because you're a filthy palpatine fanboy though

The EU quality started peaking up after ep 1, before Palpatine did much in the PT.

Originally posted by Q99
The EU quality started peaking up after ep 1, before Palpatine did much in the PT.

Silence, heretic. Palpatine's ascent was pretty much the central storyline in TPM, per Lucas himself.



Better than being a filthy Obi-Wan fanb1tch. My man can take yours all day, any day. uhuh

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Silence, heretic. Palpatine's ascent was pretty much the central storyline in TPM, per Lucas himself.

Not that people knew it at the time I mean, it was arc important, but he didn't awe people yet.

It was really RotS where he shined.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So... a typical zombie story then?
Yes. Apparently it works in films but in books it completely failed for me. I mean there was plenty of characters that I expected to survive for as long as possible and being in the center of the story. But they meaninglessly died after few pages. I expected at least one such character from Sith but there was non.

Have you read that other zombie star wars story, Death Troopers

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Death_Troopers

KOTOR 2 isn't even close to being one of the worst Star Wars "things."

It did have bugs & Glitches with the PC version

but even that doesn't make it worst.

Originally posted by Based
KOTOR 2 isn't even close to being one of the worst Star Wars "things."

It's up there, really. Overly pretentious and nonsensical tripe.

Also disappointing. Nothing makes a medium bad like failing to live up to expectations.

My roommates are mild Star Wars fans and dedicated gamers; we had a good laugh at the scene where the Exile confronts the Jedi Masters on Dantooine before Kreia intervenes and wipes them out. All of them.

I have no doubt Chris Avellone has all the makings of a fine writer, but he overreached dramatically. Leave that shit to Sean Stewart, Matthew Stover, James Luceno, or even Michael Reaves.

You guys are ridiculous.

You only dislike it Tempest because you've spent so long analyzing it. Anything would seem bad if you picked it apart as much as you have.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You guys are ridiculous.

You only dislike it Tempest because you've spent so long analyzing it. Anything would seem bad if you picked it apart as much as you have.

I'm a fisherman par excellence.

Whats really amusing is how you say 'I have no doubt Chris Avellone has all the makings of a fine writer' despite him writing Planescape: Torment, widely considered to have the finest writing of any video game. Also Fallout: New Vagas.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whats really amusing is how you say 'I have no doubt Chris Avellone has all the makings of a fine writer' despite him writing Planescape: Torment, widely considered to have the finest writing of any video game. Also Fallout: New Vagas.

So you mean to say, I'm right about him?

Originally posted by Nephthys
widely considered to have the finest writing

Son, when are you going to start forming your own opinions and thoughts unaided by the tenuous consensus of a capricious society? uhuh

When I play Planescape and agree with them because it really is that well-written?

Oh wait, that already happened.

And no, you're wrong, because Avellone is a far superior writer to those clowns you mentioned. haermm

Well, I'd cry and rabidly defend those clowns, but I don't wanna steal your shtick. 313

I only cry during rough anal sex hon.

I remember, my sweet.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whats really amusing is how you say 'I have no doubt Chris Avellone has all the makings of a fine writer' despite him writing Planescape: Torment, widely considered to have the finest writing of any video game. Also Fallout: New Vagas.

Only hayters would deny that Hideo Kojima is best videogame writer ever, by far. Fallout is not ezactly known for having a good story.

New Vegas has a very interesting world story, but a very poor personal story. KotOR II kicks New Vegas' ass when it comes to the player character.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's up there, really. Overly pretentious and nonsensical tripe.

Pretentious as in the Jedi Council? Well yes, they died for that reason. Kreia for that matter too.

It's a rare Star Wars game where it's not a simple story of an epic hero. Granted KOTOR had a great story, but you can see the epic hero in various forms of media.

KOTOR 2 isn't a classic but it had a unique story dealing with the behind the scenes of rebuilding the Republic rather than just eliminating the biggest threat. And this is Star Wars, every other thing is nonsensical to the overall canon.

The premise was wonderful, the execution lackluster.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
New Vegas has a very interesting world story, but a very poor personal story. KotOR II kicks New Vegas' ass when it comes to the player character.

Well as an open-world RPG, NV is skewed more towards that side of the narrative. The whole point is to enable a broad range of player characters. And it's still better in that respect than, say, Skyrim.

Also you can hit on your own brain, I mean come on.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
but a very poor personal story.

Which is whats important imo.,

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well as an open-world RPG, NV is skewed more towards that side of the narrative. The whole point is to enable a broad range of player characters. And it's still better in that respect than, say, Skyrim.

Also you can hit on your own brain, I mean come on. Yeah, Skyrim blew chunks in the player character department. Makes up for it, though.


Originally posted by The War Dragon
Which is whats important imo., Ditto. It's very hard to feel invested in the Bethesda sandboxes, since who and what you are doesn't really seem to matter. I make an exception for Fallout 3--that one does have a world-story that's intricately tied in with the PC's personal story. Not the greatest, by any means, but decent for what it is.

Originally posted by Based
Pretentious as in the Jedi Council?

Pretentious as in the dialogue and plot in general.

A better idea, I think, would have been to focus on G0-T0 and his unique storyline with respect to reconstructing the Republic and marginalizing the Jedi & Sith in the post-Revan vacuum.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well as an open-world RPG, NV is skewed more towards that side of the narrative. The whole point is to enable a broad range of player characters. And it's still better in that respect than, say, Skyrim.

Yeah, gotta give Obsidian credit they managed to create a compelling storyline which is pretty much unprecedented in any sandbox game.

GTA which is bo yn means has the best storyline, still has a much better one than fallout and it is also a sandbox game.

edit - In fact, Red Dead Redemption has the best story out of all the sandbox games.

Good point didn't even consider those ones. Although, I'd argue NV has a better story than GTA.

Originally posted by ares834
Apparently there was also a talking flower in it...

No there wasn't. "Red Harvest" did not have a talking flower, it had a telepathic flower. And the only person who could talk to it was Hestizo Trace (who is awesome BTW).

"Red Harvest" was a great book. Yes, it had a lot of character deaths but that's what happens in zombie stories.

Jacen Solo/Darth Cadeus absolutely worst character ever...
The New Jedi Order
fast style
medium style
strong style
zombie SW book waste of time,paper,ink.....
Vader's Ghost prison
Vader and 9th asssassin
killing Chewbacca too soon
All the SW books after ROTJ (In the NJO ) of course....
I'll get back I'm still thinking.....

Those were just for a video game, and before the 7-forms were invented.

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130507183944/starwars/images/4/4a/MountSorrow01-E7.png

Mount Sorrow, the sentient mountain.

Seems like something Disney would hang on to.