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Both at the peak of their power.

Who wins?

Sise-neg

Can Sis-Neg overthrow TOAA?

Synnar is working towards overthrowing the Presence.

Originally posted by Diesldude
Can Sis-Neg overthrow TOAA?

Synnar is working towards overthrowing the Presence.
So?

I'm going with Synnar because he supposedly created AND maintained EVERY ALTERNATE REALITY in the DCU except the original one. He's gotta be massively powerful to pull that off.

EDIT :
Proof scan -
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/80236/1525766-rannthan06_014_super.jpg

^^ ... about the same thing Sise-Neg did imo.
Should be a stalemate.

If Synnar became the most powerful being in all existence,
then this would be a stalemate,
cause that's exactly what Genesis was.

Also ... what's up with this:

Carnivore usurping the Presence's male aspect.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15358824_Presence_lost1.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15358825_Presence_lost2.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15358826_Presence_lost3.jpg

.. ouch ...


Originally posted by Diesldude

Can Sis-Neg overthrow TOAA?

Synnar is working towards overthrowing the Presence.
TOAA and the Presence are not counterparts.

That aside,
no one in Marvel can work towards or have any chance at touching the TOAA,
in any way, shape or form unless TOAA draws themselves getting pissed upon.

That said, Sise-Neg became "God" of all reality!
(he absorbed All extant energy across All realities)

There are only a canon handful that can definitively claim this "God" status.

The Infinity Being - Thanos/HOTI - Alien Entity/Reed -
and Entropy/Genis/Eternity/Infinity collectively by default
due to the cosmic cycle.

Aside from the Infinity Being who started it all,
these are the only instances where all space-time was turned into a void,
then re-started via the Big Bang.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ ... about the same thing Sise-Neg did imo.
Should be a stalemate.

If Synnar became the most powerful being in all existence,
then this would be a stalemate,
cause that's exactly what Genesis was.
Seis Neg never really impressed me. Like you said, lots of beings have started a "Big Bang" : Genis/Entropy, Alien Entity/Reed, etc...

Aside from that, Seis Neg did what exactly? Beat Merlin, the wizards/whores in Sodom and Gomorrah, and Shuma Gorath (who was bullying ape men).

Not only did Synnar create AND maintain EVERY alt reality DC has, he fought against EVERYONE and their mother and beat them down. This something akin to Thanos w/HotU stomping all of Marvel.
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/80236/1525774-rannthan06_016_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/8/80236/1525787-rannthan06_017_18_super.jpg

In terms of on panel feats AND fights, Synnar is by far the more impressive character (power wise).


Yeah that's a laughably bad showing.

Originally posted by zopzop

Seis Neg never really impressed me. Like you said, lots of beings
have started a "Big Bang" : Genis/Entropy, Alien Entity/Reed, etc...
I never said lots, just a handful.

As if Synnar is the only one capable of that in DC.
Originally posted by zopzop

Aside from that, Seis Neg did what exactly? Beat Merlin, the
wizards/whores in Sodom and Gomorrah, and Shuma Gorath (who
was bullying ape men).
Sis-Neg wasn't looking for a fight, just for power.

He never beat anyone of his own accord, he wasn't interested in that.
Originally posted by zopzop

Not only did Synnar create AND maintain EVERY alt reality DC has,
he fought against EVERYONE and their mother and beat them down.
This something akin to Thanos w/HotU stomping all of Marvel.

In terms of on panel feats AND fights, Synnar is by far the more
impressive character (power wise).
I disagree this is anything like what Thanos did.

Anyway, Synnar fought whoever he fought,
Sise-Neg just took Everyone's power.

In the end, Sise-Neg became Genesis, and at this point, he was a Supreme Being.

The happenings "in-between" to and fro are inconsequential
since this is them at the height of their power.

... and at the height of his power, Sise-Neg now Genesis was "God."

Originally posted by zopzop

Yeah that's a laughably bad showing.
Unless there's an explanation for this, this doesn't look good for the Presence ... shifty

Originally posted by Mr Master
The happenings "in-between" to and fro are inconsequential
since this is them at the height of their power.

... and at the height of his power, Sise-Neg now Genesis was "God."

I disagree here Mr. M. Since by this logic Alien Entity/Reed was God and Entropy/Genis was God too.

And I'm curious as to why you'd say Synnar stomping all of DC isn't the same as Thanos w/HotU stomping all of Marvel?

Basically Synnar did what Thanos w/HotU did until "God" put his foot down and ended it.

Originally posted by zopzop

I disagree here Mr. M. Since by this logic Alien Entity/Reed was
God and Entropy/Genis was God too.
Precisely. The Entropy/Genis/Eternity case is circumstantial though.
Originally posted by zopzop

And I'm curious as to why you'd say Synnar stomping all of DC
isn't the same as Thanos w/HotU stomping all of Marvel?

Basically Synnar did what Thanos w/HotU did until "God" put his foot
down and ended it.
Is the DC reality coming at him or all of heaven's angels & demons?

Thanos absorbed effortlessly the most powerful entity currently in Marvel,
that's all that matters.

Did Synnar defeat any particular heavyweight mentioned?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Precisely. The Entropy/Genis/Eternity case is circumstantial though.
So Entropy/Genis is God but we only saw them create one reality, 616. Same with Seis Neg and Alien Entity/Reed.

On panel Synnar created AND maintained EVERY alt reality in DC (including all the powers and principalities that inhabit them).


It clearly says God threw EVERYTHING he had at him on panel. This would by definition include every being that was ever created.

And as we've seen some of DC's angels, like Michael are packing at least universe level creating power within them (hell there were on panel scans stating it was MULTIVERSE creating level of power). And they still got stomped by Synnar.

Synnar.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ ... about the same thing Sise-Neg did imo.
Should be a stalemate.

If Synnar became the most powerful being in all existence,
then this would be a stalemate,
cause that's exactly what Genesis was.

Also ... what's up with this:

Carnivore usurping the Presence's male aspect.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15358824_Presence_lost1.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15358825_Presence_lost2.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15358826_Presence_lost3.jpg

.. ouch ...



TOAA and the Presence are not counterparts.

That aside,
no one in Marvel can work towards or have any chance at touching the TOAA,
in any way, shape or form unless TOAA draws themselves getting pissed upon.

That said, Sise-Neg became "God" of all reality!
(he absorbed All extant energy across All realities)

There are only a canon handful that can definitively claim this "God" status.

The Infinity Being - Thanos/HOTI - Alien Entity/Reed -
and Entropy/Genis/Eternity/Infinity collectively by default
due to the cosmic cycle.

Aside from the Infinity Being who started it all,
these are the only instances where all space-time was turned into a void,
then re-started via the Big Bang. when sisneg became God of all reality was he above toaa? This would also imply that toaa isn't eternal and has a beginning.

Originally posted by zopzop

So Entropy/Genis is God but we only saw them create one reality,
616. Same with Seis Neg and Alien Entity/Reed.
I have no problem proving Sise-Neg absorbed All Existing power across all realities,
let me know.

If you believe Entropy/Genis took out just one Reality,
let me know if that needs attention.

If you return with them stating "The Universe" ...
I'll return with the fact that the Microverse (a Distant separate Entire Universe)
was also erased by Entropy/Genis as stated on panel,
therefore, there's no doubt it wasn't just 616, it was everything,
because when the term "The Universe" is used, it's either just one reality or all
depending on the context of the story.

So why would they say "The Universe"
when we know the Microverse is Another entire separate Universe Way outside 616?

You feel me?

That aside: From the Entropy/Genis book: (Context of the story)

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15359456_ETernity_Multiverse.jpg

"Entropy is the son of Eternity, the being who's essence encompasses the Entirety of the Multiverse ...
... Entropy/Genis quest to destroy his father,
and End All Creation."

I guess you can flip a coin.

Originally posted by zopzop

On panel Synnar created AND maintained EVERY alt reality in DC (including all the powers and principalities that inhabit them).
So did Sise-Neg.
Originally posted by zopzop

It clearly says God threw EVERYTHING he had at him on panel.
This would by definition include every being that was ever created.
So you have no proof the DC Universe came at him friend?

On top of this all we see On Panel in the scan you provided are Angels and Demons,
exactly what Synnar said he was up against. (not Mxy/Cosmic Extant or others)
Originally posted by zopzop

And as we've seen some of DC's angels, like Michael are packing
at least universe level creating power within them (hell there
were on panel scans stating it was MULTIVERSE creating level of
power). And they still got stomped by Synnar.
Perhaps ... so long as we understand it was angels and demons,
not Cosmic powers and such like a Mxy or Kismet.

Also, your scans aren't really helping the Presence itself my good friend:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15359205_Presence_not_supreme.jpg

Not all-knowing

"The Presence ... He was NOT truly Supreme, merely superior" ...

... ouch ...

Originally posted by Diesldude

when sisneg became God of all reality was he above toaa?

This would also imply that toaa isn't eternal and has a beginning.


TOAA draws "supreme beings" into existence with the stroke of a pencil.

Look at mighty Galactus (not supreme but still) just a silly image of ink on paper:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15359562_TOAA_4.jpg

(notice how reality is created as he maneuvers his pencil)

------------------------------


Anyway, it was made clear that the in-universe "God" of all reality
is beneath the true "God" which is TOAA:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15359571_LT_above_IG2.jpg

Originally posted by Mr Master


TOAA draws "supreme beings" into existence with the stroke of a pencil.

Look at mighty Galactus (not supreme but still) just a silly image of ink on paper:

http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t1/15359562_TOAA_4.jpg

(notice how reality is created as he maneuvers his pencil)

------------------------------


Anyway, it was made clear that the in-universe "God" of all reality
is beneath the true "God" which is TOAA:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15359571_LT_above_IG2.jpg I see what you are saying..

the god of comics < the writer which is toaa. Toaaa can pencil anything he wants and can literally draw the comics god of all realties into a tunip.

sometimes the story|character history is >than the writer and can limit\ control what the writer can pencil in. Does that character than become >toaa?

She-Hulk >>> TOAA

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ ... about the same thing Sise-Neg did imo.
Should be a stalemate.

If Synnar became the most powerful being in all existence,
then this would be a stalemate,
cause that's exactly what Genesis was.

Also ... what's up with this:

Carnivore usurping the Presence's male aspect.

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15358824_Presence_lost1.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15358825_Presence_lost2.jpg http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15358826_Presence_lost3.jpg

.. ouch ...



TOAA and the Presence are not counterpart.

I see you've become very fond of those scans

This scan was from Supergirl Vol 4 #50.Carnivore was holding 3 earth born angels.This earth born angels are Linda Danvers(Supergirl who is an Earth born angel and not a Kryptonian),Blithe and Comet.They also seem to represent the Presence's female aspect known as the Schechina(the feminine aspect of the Presence and was accountable for acts of mercy and compassion amongst others) that keeps the Presence in check.Because if the Presence loses his female aspect, he will become the merciless God of the Old Testament.Basically, the Presence has no choice but to comply with Carnivore's demands.

As for the thread.Stalemate seems to be reasonable

Yeah, stalemate seems about right.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I have no problem proving Sise-Neg absorbed All Existing power across all realities,
let me know.

If you believe Entropy/Genis took out just one Reality,
let me know if that needs attention.

If you return with them stating "The Universe" ...
I'll return with the fact that the Microverse (a Distant separate Entire Universe)
was also erased by Entropy/Genis as stated on panel,
therefore, there's no doubt it wasn't just 616, it was everything,
because when the term "The Universe" is used, it's either just one reality or all
depending on the context of the story.

So why would they say "The Universe"
when we know the Microverse is Another entire separate Universe Way outside 616?

You feel me?

That aside: From the Entropy/Genis book: (Context of the story)

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15359456_ETernity_Multiverse.jpg

"Entropy is the son of Eternity, the being who's essence encompasses the Entirety of the Multiverse ...
... Entropy/Genis quest to destroy his father,
and End All Creation."

I guess you can flip a coin.


So did Sise-Neg.

Not the same thing my friend. As we noticed on panel, Seis Neg did not create Mordo or Dr Strange because they were there and present for his Big Bang. I'm assuming higher end beings like the LT also weren't destroyed or recreated when Seis Neg did his deed.

Likewise with Genis/Entropy or Alien Entitiy/Reed. How could Eternity/Entropy destroy and recreate a being greater than himself, the LT?

Synnar created EVERYTHING except he that was himself uncreated. It's stated on panel. He even created beings that can create entire universes/a multiverse and he fought and beat them down.

He beatdown EVERYONE except "God" (even beings that have/had "Big Bang" level power within them aka Michael).


The "only" proof I have is that it's stated on panel that God threw EVERYTHING he had at Synnar and Synnar beat the crap out of them. This is the opposite of what happened with Seis Neg or the other "Big Bangers" except Thanos w/HotU.




Mr. M, my friend, that's typical villain banter. Here Mephisto does the same thing concerning the LT :
http://imageshack.us/a/img353/3142/mvs424cn2.th.jpg
And what chance does Mephisto have vs the LT? None. And unlike Mephisto, Synnar actually displayed literal GOD like power (creation of EVERY SINGLE REALITY in DCU except the prime one and not because he couldn't it was because GOD already created it, creation of EVERY power and principality and being in DC, AND his absolute superiority over his creations).

Good point but I wouldn't think so, in the real world you're absolutely correct.
But that's actually delving into paradoxical dialogue
like giving fiction too much reality imo.

TOAA > all drawings on panel .. anything other (like writer's
constrictions due to plot/history and whatnot) are the policies in this
illustrated literary genre that must be followed to keep a not so
perfect seamless historical nexus that connects many different points of views.

Originally posted by zopzop

Not the same thing my friend. As we noticed on panel, Seis Neg did
not create Mordo or Dr Strange because they were there and
present for his Big Bang. I'm assuming higher end beings like the
LT also weren't destroyed or recreated when Seis Neg did his deed.
Come on Zop, you know Sise-Neg allowed Strange & Mordo to exist cause
he wanted them to witness his glory:

http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t1/15364794_SisNeg_they_live.jpg

I luvs ya Zop but "assumptions" isn't proof.
The LT got taken like everything else.
616's history (which has created everything) was brought to the void,
Before the First current Universe (616)

It was the Second creation of original 616 they witnessed:

http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t1/15364798_SiseNeg.jpg

Notice how Genesis' power (which was All Existing energy as the Writer clearly states there)
exploded and Strange/Mordo rode All of history back to 616
as All Other Eras (other TimelineS) were created.

Originally posted by zopzop

Likewise with Genis/Entropy or Alien Entitiy/Reed. How could
Eternity/Entropy destroy and recreate a being greater than himself, the LT?
Well this was a stipulated case, so I don't really count it but its valid.

Remember good friend, although the LT is above Eternity,
the LT's existence is subject to Eternity/Infinity's.
The LT has no purpose without space-time. (I ain't talking a single alternate reality here)

Anyway, due to the Cosmic cycle
where Eternity/Infinity is refreshed by dying then re-birthing through Entropy.
(back 06' I thought Genis/Entropy > Eternity) but nah,
Eternity allowed himself to be killed
because it was his cosmic time to go and he knew it as state on panel.
(Genis admitted without this stipulation they weren't taking Eternity down)
Originally posted by zopzop

Synnar created EVERYTHING except he that was himself uncreated.
It's stated on panel. He even created beings that can create entire
universes/a multiverse and he fought and beat them down.

He beatdown EVERYONE except "God" (even beings that have/had
"Big Bang" level power within them aka Michael).

The "only" proof I have is that it's stated on panel that God threw
EVERYTHING he had at Synnar and Synnar beat the crap out of
them. This is the opposite of what happened with Seis Neg or the
other "Big Bangers" except Thanos w/HotU.
Cool. So On Panel God threw everything in heaven and hell he had on him,
but no one from the DC UniverseS.

THOTU took out the Cosmic hierarchy (the LT included who
manipulates the power of MegaverseS in one hand) the Entire race of Celestials (since we're throwing assumptions around Scathan & Fulcrum were there)
and practically every villain and hero Marvel has to offer.

Sise-Neg absorbed All energy/power across All Realities,
then reached back in time to 616's Pre-Bug Bang point (Before any other reality, Before the LT)
then Sise-Neg re-created 616 and it's History (All Timelines)

Remember friend, this is Genesis vs Synnar:

Both had "God-like" power ... stalemate!

Originally posted by zopzop

Mr. M, my friend, that's typical villain banter.
Here Mephisto does the same thing concerning the LT :

And what chance does Mephisto have vs the LT? None.

And unlike Mephisto, Synnar actually displayed literal GOD like
power (creation of EVERY SINGLE REALITY in DCU except the prime
one and not because he couldn't it was because GOD already
created it, creation of EVERY power and principality and being in
DC, AND his absolute superiority over his creations).
Heh ... you actually answered this part of the post for me.

That's like what I was going to say as in,
how the hell are you popping up a silly Mephisto scan of him talking shit
vs Synna (with his "God-like" power of the Presence itself no less)
making assertive statements about his creator.

Two entirely different things.

The Presence (according to the next most powerful being - Synnar)
was No All knowing and Not Supreme.

That's like the LT making a comment about someone,
not like Mephisto talking booty waste ...

Bump for our expert Operator. I think this could go either way. Tough call.

Sise Neg remade a cosmos, he REMADE 1 universe(616). While Synnar CREATED a whole multiverse.

Synnar wins, definitely.