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HTH, no shield for Cap. Who wins?

Cap wins 9/10. I figure Mr. X has at least one where his tp powers don't find a new way to fail him.

ISWYDT

X takes a majority as long as Cap is fighting back. In a no PIS/CIS fight, yeah X definitely wins more than he loses. Cap's not on the level where X can't predict and counteract him.

Originally posted by KingD19
X takes a majority as long as Cap is fighting back. In a no PIS/CIS fight, yeah X definitely wins more than he loses. Cap's not on the level where X can't predict and counteract him.

I can see X giving lots of problems to Steve for sure.

But I can also see Steve using the weakness of X that have been used in the past.


Instinctive fighting(even though it makes no sense)

Drunken style fighting(which simulates instinctive fighting)

One was shown by Logan and the other by Danny.

Cap's will blocking has thwarted telepaths like Redscull using Xaviers.

There is no way Cap wins this.
Someone who can read minds and know exactly what you are going to do?
Someone who made logan look like a child?

Come on now!

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I can see X giving lots of problems to Steve for sure.

But I can also see Steve using the weakness of X that have been used in the past.


Instinctive fighting(even though it makes no sense)

Drunken style fighting(which simulates instinctive fighting)

One was shown by Logan and the other by Danny.

Cap's will blocking has thwarted telepaths like Redscull using Xaviers.

Cap isn't Logan or Danny. Logan has feral instincts that allow him to do that, and Danny is one of the best martial artists on the planet who actually is a master of a multitude of styles, including drunken kung-fu. Cap can't do either of those things.

And his tp isn't always clearly explained, sometimes he just reads your mind, sometimes he reads brain synapses(which Cap wouldn't be able to block him from reading as it's electrical impulses), and so on.

Cap wins a few because he's Cap, but without his shield, he's at a huge disadvantage and loses a lot more than he wins.

Originally posted by KingD19
Cap isn't Logan or Danny. Logan has feral instincts that allow him to do that, and Danny is one of the best martial artists on the planet who actually is a master of a multitude of styles, including drunken kung-fu. Cap can't do either of those things.

And his tp isn't always clearly explained, sometimes he just reads your mind, sometimes he reads brain synapses(which Cap wouldn't be able to block him from reading as it's electrical impulses), and so on.

Cap wins a few because he's Cap, but without his shield, he's at a huge disadvantage and loses a lot more than he wins.


You might be underestimating Steve. As he is not Logan nor Danny but he is very skilled and enhanced. He once mastered a art that took others a decade to master and these were noted warriors by Kang.

Steves mind is enhanced.

I believe he can simulate instinctive fighting as he has even blocked telepaths by sheer will. Plus his stats are better then X's.

X stomps.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
You might be underestimating Steve. As he is not Logan nor Danny but he is very skilled and enhanced. He once mastered a art that took others a decade to master and these were noted warriors by Kang.

Steves mind is enhanced.

I believe he can simulate instinctive fighting as he has even blocked telepaths by sheer will. Plus his stats are better then X's.

I'm not underestimating him, I'm just not giving him feats and skills he's never displayed. I'm not gonna say Captain America is an accomplished sous chef because he's never shown himself as one. So I also won't assume he can "fight instinctively" as he has neither the feral state of mind of Logan, or the martial arts mastery of Danny. And since he's also never shown himself using drunken kung-fu, you can't assume he can use drunken kung-fu. I'm not doubting his skills or his enhanced abilities, but I'm saying they won't help as he doesn't have the tools to beat X.

His mind being enhanced means nothing, and mastering that fighting style means nothing. They won't help him here.

Believing and having feats to back up those beliefs are two different things, and blocking a telepath is again different than blocking a guy who reads brain synapses, which X has been stated to do on enough occasions that it can be argued that's one of the ways his powers work.

And again, his enhanced stats mean nothing. Logan is incredibly enhanced and far beyond X, but X could beat him because he saw what moves he'd make. He could even read Quicksilver's mind, whose brain patterns should be too fast for him to interpret, but he did it anyway. Pietro still moved too fast for him to stop though. Cap is nowhere near as fast as Pietro though.

Originally posted by KingD19
I'm not underestimating him, I'm just not giving him feats and skills he's never displayed. I'm not gonna say Captain America is an accomplished sous chef because he's never shown himself as one. So I also won't assume he can "fight instinctively" as he has neither the feral state of mind of Logan, or the martial arts mastery of Danny. And since he's also never shown himself using drunken kung-fu, you can't assume he can use drunken kung-fu. I'm not doubting his skills or his enhanced abilities, but I'm saying they won't help as he doesn't have the tools to beat X.

His mind being enhanced means nothing, and mastering that fighting style means nothing. They won't help him here.

Believing and having feats to back up those beliefs are two different things, and blocking a telepath is again different than blocking a guy who reads brain synapses, which X has been stated to do on enough occasions that it can be argued that's one of the ways his powers work.

And again, his enhanced stats mean nothing. Logan is incredibly enhanced and far beyond X, but X could beat him because he saw what moves he'd make. He could even read Quicksilver's mind, whose brain patterns should be too fast for him to interpret, but he did it anyway. Pietro still moved too fast for him to stop though. Cap is nowhere near as fast as Pietro though.

excellent. One of your best posts!

Yeah, King's at his best here.


Let's be honest, shieldless Cap was not a match for Taskmaster and we all know how X humiliated Tony.

Ironically I made that post on almost 24 hours of no sleep. I apparently do my best work when deprived of bed time.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yeah, King's at his best here.


Let's be honest, shieldless Cap was not a match for Taskmaster and we all know how X humiliated Tony.


Apples to oranges as Task was throwing everything at Steve but the kitchen sink.

And even with that Task couldn't get the job done. So when Steve evened it up with a energy shield that did the trick.

Cap

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Apples to oranges as Task was throwing everything at Steve but the kitchen sink.

And even with that Task couldn't get the job done. So when Steve evened it up with a energy shield that did the trick.

Exactly, he needed the shield to save himself in the end. W/o it he was getting his ass handed to him.

If Cap had his shield, I'd even give him a slight majority. As X while able to predict that he'd throw it, and maybe even where he'd throw it, he more than likely wouldn't be able to predict the ricochet.

But without it, Cap is screwed.

In a forum fight, I don't see how Captain America would win this.

In a comic, well...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Exactly, he needed the shield to save himself in the end. W/o it he was getting his ass handed to him.


But that's why your point is moot. This isn't Steve hth vs X with tons of weapons like Taskmaster. Cap using a weapon against TM with tons of weapons makes it more of a "balance". Unless you think thats fair?



Both are fighting just HtH in here.

Under the forum rules, Mister X wins 10/10.

In comics, though, Cap would win 10/10. Mister X would try to read into his moves only to get blocked by a hilariously large mental cap-shield in the mind-scape.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
But that's why your point is moot. This isn't Steve hth vs X with tons of weapons like Taskmaster. Cap using a weapon against TM with tons of weapons makes it more of a "balance". Unless you think thats fair?



Both are fighting just HtH in here.

This is why our point wins the debate. Without his weapon, Steve doesn't have a wild card. X can just predict every move he makes, and counter it. Cap isn't immune to pressure strikes, and X is a good enough fighter that Cap won't wade through his hits in a forum fight. He doesn't need a weapon to beat Cap down, just his powers, which Cap has absolutely no counter to or chance against.

Yea I'm going with X.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
But that's why your point is moot. This isn't Steve hth vs X with tons of weapons like Taskmaster. Cap using a weapon against TM with tons of weapons makes it more of a "balance". Unless you think thats fair?



Both are fighting just HtH in here.

Tasky owned him in h2h eventually, after Steve dodged all of his trick arrows.

My point was that X beat Taskmaster, shieldless Cap didn't. Simple.

Originally posted by KingD19
This is why our point wins the debate. Without his weapon, Steve doesn't have a wild card. X can just predict every move he makes, and counter it. Cap isn't immune to pressure strikes, and X is a good enough fighter that Cap won't wade through his hits in a forum fight. He doesn't need a weapon to beat Cap down, just his powers, which Cap has absolutely no counter to or chance against.


But I think Cap does have the wild card.

X is a low level telepath, while Steve has blocked out Quire with his mind and broken out of Red with Xaviers mind powers.

Also add to that that Steve mind is not normal and is boosted.


I think that is the edge that gives him enough to win. It won't be easy that I agree with. But Steve adaptability to new threats is just some thing he excels at.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Tasky owned him in h2h eventually, after Steve dodged all of his trick arrows.

My point was that X beat Taskmaster, shieldless Cap didn't. Simple.


Task has never beaten Steve h2h. Plus he normally has weapons.

A...B....C logic doesn't always work.

X lost to Danny.
While Steve stalemated Danny.

You're not getting it. X doesn't just read his mind. He reads the electrical currents that translate into brain synapses. You can't "block" that out. And his mind being boosted once again has "nothing" to do with anything. You can't stop your brain from having impulses, which X reads. By reading those, he sees what moves Cap makes before he makes them. And even then, his telepathy is passive, so the brain doesn't even pick it up as an attempt at reading your mind, so there's nothing to block.

Also, X only lost to Danny because he switched to Drunken Fist. If he'd used any other form, X would have won decisively .

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Task has never beaten Steve h2h. Plus he normally has weapons.

A...B....C logic doesn't always work.

X lost to Danny.
While Steve stalemated Danny.

Cap was done, energy shield saved him.

True, but considering how easily X handled Taskmaster (who was using DD's and Cap's moves), it shouldn't be too hard for him to beat Steve in this thread.

Originally posted by KingD19
You're not getting it. X doesn't just read his mind. He reads the electrical currents that translate into brain synapses. You can't "block" that out. And his mind being boosted once again has "nothing" to do with anything. You can't stop your brain from having impulses, which X reads. By reading those, he sees what moves Cap makes before he makes them. And even then, his telepathy is passive, so the brain doesn't even pick it up as an attempt at reading your mind, so there's nothing to block.

Also, X only lost to Danny because he switched to Drunken Fist. If he'd used any other form, X would have won decisively .


Drunken fist style is just simulation of drunk movements that are random and hard to counter. It does not entail hiding ones electrical currents.

Plus if Steve can block out Quire and break out of Xaviers level of telepathy control. I don't think that its to "far" to reach that he can block out X as well. Especially since these two are prop superior to X in this regard.

Remender's Thunderbolts issue was a joke, I think we can all agree on that. Villains were jobbing worse than under Bendis.

He only did 1 issue and he clearly didn't treat that job seriously.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Cap was done, energy shield saved him.

True, but considering how easily X handled Taskmaster (who was using DD's and Cap's moves), it shouldn't be too hard for him to beat Steve in this thread.

Saved him against a opponent who had tons of weapons.....noted.

I doubt it will be easy if X does indeed win.


Agree to disagree then.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Saved him against a opponent who had tons of weapons.....noted.

I doubt it will be easy if X does indeed win.

He only used his most standard equipment when they went h2h, that is a sword and a shield.

I'm not arguing whether or not it was fair, I'm just focusing on Steve's performance w/o the shield. Because that's what we're supposed to do in this thread.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Agree to disagree then.

Ok.

Originally posted by KingD19
You're not getting it. X doesn't just read his mind. He reads the electrical currents that translate into brain synapses. You can't "block" that out.

Except for feral Wolverine, which is a heaping pile of PIS since impulses that move the body happen regardless of whether they're instinctive or conscious.

Logan taps into Loebforce when he goes berserk.

Originally posted by cdtm
Except for feral Wolverine, which is a heaping pile of PIS since impulses that move the body happen regardless of whether they're instinctive or conscious.


Or it could mean that he can't read electrical pulses that are "instinctive" thoughts. Like Logan or the Drunken style.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

X lost to Danny.
While Steve stalemated Danny.
The Iron Fist incident is being overblown. Danny landed one hit then got thrown out of a window by Ghost. We saw X standing around totally fine afterwards.

It was embarrassing for X, but it's only a loss in a point sparring match.
Originally posted by cdtm
Except for feral Wolverine, which is a heaping pile of PIS since impulses that move the body happen regardless of whether they're instinctive or conscious.
Additionally, X trained to over come that weakness in that really shitty one-shot.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Or it could mean that he can't read electrical pulses that are "instinctive" thoughts. Like Logan or the Drunken style.

Drunken style overcoming it was total PIS too.

Originally posted by StyleTime
The Iron Fist incident is being overblown. Danny landed one hit then got thrown out of a window by Ghost. We saw X standing around totally fine afterwards.

See, the fact they keep citing that feat shows Mr. X still has his credibility.

The narrative is "Holy crap, he got hit?", instead of "Mr. X lol", or even worse "...lets talk about someone else."

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Or it could mean that he can't read electrical pulses that are "instinctive" thoughts. Like Logan or the Drunken style.

That's kinda not how electrical impulses work. Doing anything causes them in your brain. The simple act of thinking, whether instinctive or not, causes them. THey're always there. And X can read them.

Originally posted by KingD19
That's kinda not how electrical impulses work. Doing anything causes them in your brain. The simple act of thinking, whether instinctive or not, causes them. THey're always there. And X can read them.

And going feral as the answer for everything is kind of a cheap dues x. mechanica anyways, imo.

Superman had to actually outwit Massacre's similar power. Granted, all he did was pretend to fire his HV at him, knowing Massacre would duck, that it would hit something slightly behind/above him, and distract him enough to body tackle him and shut down his power by keeping him stunned and reeling, but still.. It's better then "Accessing plot device power set.."

Originally posted by KingD19
That's kinda not how electrical impulses work. Doing anything causes them in your brain. The simple act of thinking, whether instinctive or not, causes them. THey're always there. And X can read them.

But if that's how it's portrayed it must be counted irregardless what it should be. He was not able to read them for Logan nor Danny. As X clearly has limitations.

Mr.X slaughters .....................