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3 way battle between, Tiamut, Galactus, and Franklin Richards.


Adult Franklin Richards
Galactus (4 Planets)
Tiamut (Pre-Evolved).

Still going with Tiamut. He had Arishem dead to rights before he was jumped by the rest of the Host. And even then, they sucker attacked him. He wasn't expecting them to jump in.

IMHO :
1) Tiamut
2) 4 Planet Amp Galactus
3) AFR

Franklin pwns!

Is this Tiamut vs Galactus and Franklin or Tiamut vs Galactus vs Franklin? If it's the first Galactus and Franklin wins, if it's the later then I actually can't see who will win. Their individual performance against various celestials are very equal to each other from my point of view.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Is this Tiamut vs Galactus and Franklin or Tiamut vs Galactus vs Franklin? If it's the first Galactus and Franklin wins, if it's the later then I actually can't see who will win. Their individual performance against various celestials are very equal to each other from my point of view.

My bad!

I placed a "+" where a "vs" was suppose to be.

Galactus takes this battle after a tough fight with Franklin.
Originally posted by zopzop
He had Arishem dead to rights before he was jumped by the rest of the Host
After an extended battle. Franklin and Galactus were both killing the Mad Celestials left and right with one-shots. Tiamut is practically a non-factor here.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Their individual performance against various celestials are very equal to each other from my point of view.
I used to think that as well, but now it's clear that the 4-planet-juiced Galactus did indeed appear to perform slightly better than Franklin against the Mad Celestials. And they both did much better than Tiamut did against Arishem or the rest of the 4th host.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Galactus takes this battle after a tough fight with Franklin.

After an extended battle. Franklin and Galactus were both killing the Mad Celestials left and right with one-shots. Tiamut is practically a non-factor here.
Yes, those Rogues were so powerful that they couldn't even one shot kill Thing and it took THREE OF THEM to break through the IW's force field.

Tiamut wins this.

Franklin seemed somewhat equal to Ashema, who in turn should be well below Tiamut. And Galactus was shown to be afraid of Tiamut, which he probably wouldn't be if he could just buff up and take him down.

probably Tiamut

Originally posted by zopzop
Yes, those Rogues were so powerful that they couldn't even one shot kill Thing and it took THREE OF THEM to break through the IW's force field.
At least those rogues weren't easily overtaken by Mr Sinister and had chips of their armor smashed by Namor and Colossonaut.

Originally posted by Magnon
Tiamut wins this.

Franklin seemed somewhat equal to Ashema, who in turn should be well below Tiamut. And Galactus was shown to be afraid of Tiamut, which he probably wouldn't be if he could just buff up and take him down.
It was stated on-panel that Tiamut would never have dared to take over the Heroes Reborn universe as long as it was under Franklin's protection. Ashema's weaker dominion gave him the window of opportunity.

Anyways, this is adult Franklin Richards, from Hickman's run. He's a whole different beast. He'd probably merk Ashema in less than 2 minutes.

Tiamut vs. 2nd Celestial Host (5 Celestials).

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4554/eternals03004copylz7.th.jpghttp://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4593/eternals03005copyor4.th.jpghttp://img171.imageshack.us/img171/982/eternals03006007j1wa8.th.jpghttp://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5130/eternals03014copymf6.th.jpghttp://img515.imageshack.us/img515/241/eternals03015copyfy5.th.jpg

Here Doom asserts that Tiamut was the strongest of the 2nd Host.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5401/heroesrebornashemapage2cv0.th.jpg

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I used to think that as well, but now it's clear that the 4-planet-juiced Galactus did indeed appear to perform slightly better than Franklin against the Mad Celestials. And they both did much better than Tiamut did against Arishem or the rest of the 4th host.

Tiamut fought 5 Celestials on his own, and granted didn't win but fighting alone against that many and not getting immidiately overwhelmed but actually holding his ground and giving them a fight that complete depletes them, imo shows that Tiamut in this fight isn't a non factor

Edit: See Id's scans

Originally posted by "Id"
Tiamut vs. 2nd Celestial Host (5 Celestials).

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4554/eternals03004copylz7.th.jpghttp://img53.imageshack.us/img53/4593/eternals03005copyor4.th.jpghttp://img171.imageshack.us/img171/982/eternals03006007j1wa8.th.jpghttp://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5130/eternals03014copymf6.th.jpghttp://img515.imageshack.us/img515/241/eternals03015copyfy5.th.jpg

Here Doom asserts that Tiamut was the strongest of the 2nd Host.
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/5401/heroesrebornashemapage2cv0.th.jpg
He failed to kill any of them, and I referred the Doom scan in my response to Magnon.

So yeah, still pretty much a non-factor in this fight is the Dreaming Celestial.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Tiamut fought 5 Celestials on his own, and granted didn't win but fighting alone against that many and not getting immidiately overwhelmed but actually holding his ground and giving them a fight that complete depletes them, imo shows that Tiamut in this fight isn't a non factor

Edit: See Id's scans
See above.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
He failed to kill any of them, and I referred the Doom scan in my response to Magnon.

So yeah, still pretty much a non-factor in this fight is the Dreaming Celestial.


The problem is, back then they where written as incapable of being destroyed by each others hand. This does not apply to Franklin Richards, or Galactus.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
So yeah, still pretty much a non-factor in this fight is the Dreaming Celestial.

To each his own.

Originally posted by "Id"
The problem is, back then they where written as incapable of being destroyed by each others hand.
Knowhere. And they couldn't be destroyed by anything based on Tiamut's account, not just by each other.
Originally posted by "Id"
This does not apply to Franklin Richards, or Galactus.
It absolutely does, as both stories are part of canon. Celestials were pretty much destructible even before Gaiman's take, and have remained so post-Gaiman.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
He failed to kill any of them, and I referred the Doom scan in my response to Magnon.

So yeah, still pretty much a non-factor in this fight is the Dreaming Celestial.

See above.
He "failed to kill any of them" because he was already going beating the crap out of Arishem :
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/1542/2877739arishemthecelest.th.jpg
Arishem "the greatest of the Celestials".

So he took on the "greatest of the Celestials" and was winning then 4 more jumped in and after a protracted battle, finally put him down.

Galactus' reaction to Tiamut's awakening :
http://imageshack.us/a/img469/2857/eternals006012dv4.th.jpg

Tiamut wins this.

Originally posted by zopzop
He "failed to kill any of them" because he was already going beating the crap out of Arishem :
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/1542/2877739arishemthecelest.th.jpg
Arishem "the greatest of the Celestials".

So he took on the "greatest of the Celestials" and was winning then 4 more jumped in and after a protracted battle, finally put him down.

Galactus' reaction to Tiamut's awakening :
http://imageshack.us/a/img469/2857/eternals006012dv4.th.jpg

Tiamut wins this.
I don't see any argument there. At this point all you're doing is recycling the same defeated points you made previously, and it's clear that you'll mindlessly spam them over and over in an attempt to troll your way to "victory" in this thread.

Galactus wins btw.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I don't see any argument there. At this point all you're doing is recycling the same defeated points you made previously, and it's clear that you'll mindlessly spam them over and over in an attempt to troll your way to "victory" in this thread.

Galactus wins btw.
The "argument' is that Tiamut was BEATING "the greatest of the Celestials" till he was jumped by FOUR MORE and a protracted battle took place in which he ultimately lost.

Galactus HALF A GALAXY away feared his awakening.

Amped Galactus went up against 4 Rogues. KOed one no name Rogue and it was stated by the writer that he would have LOST even if they didn't merge to form Voltron.

Franklin had his hands full with only 3 (2 No Names and alt reality Eson) and would have lost if he didn't use 616 Franklin's power to rez Galactus.

Tiamut wins.

Originally posted by zopzop
The "argument' is that Tiamut was BEATING "the greatest of the Celestials" till he was jumped by FOUR MORE and a protracted battle took place in which he ultimately lost.

Galactus HALF A GALAXY away feared his awakening.

Amped Galactus went up against 4 Rogues. KOed one no name Rogue and it was stated by the writer that he would have LOST even if they didn't merge to form Voltron.

Franklin had his hands full with only 3 (2 No Names and alt reality Eson) and would have lost if he didn't use 616 Franklin's power to rez Galactus.

Tiamut wins.
Tiamut failed to kill one Celestial in an extended battle. Franklin and Galactus killed Celestials with practically one-shots. Same defeated argument repeated over and over by you is funny as hell.

Those "no-name" Celestials had more feats in 3 issues than the mainstream Celestials have had in 2 decades.

This is really a fight between Galactus and Franklin. Galactus wins after a tough battle. Tiamut is virtually a non-factor, as stated before.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Tiamut failed to kill one Celestial in an extended battle. Franklin and Galactus killed Celestials with practically one-shots. Same defeated argument repeated over and over by you is funny as hell.

Those "no-name" Celestials had more feats in 3 issues than the mainstream Celestials have had in 2 decades.

This is really a fight between Galactus and Franklin. Galactus wins after a tough battle. Tiamut is virtually a non-factor, as stated before.

Tiamut was doing battle with FIVE Celestials, one of which was Arishem and as it's stated on panel by various writers :
http://imageshack.us/a/img15/6452/mostpowerful.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img19/2653/fallbacksb.jpg

"The most powerful of the Celestials", "The most dangerous of the Celestials", "The leader of the Celestials" whose arrival caused the other Celestials to "fall back" PLUS FOUR MORE.

AMPED Galactus couldn't handle 3 no names and alt reality Eson (as stated by the writer himself). Franklin couldn't handle 2 no names and alt reality Eson (as shown on panel).

Tiamut wins.

And regarding the no names vs 616 Celestials. 616 Celestials have humbled skyfathers and the 2000ft destroyer. 616 Celestials have hurled MULTIPLE worlds at IG powered Thanos. 616 Celestials have had Cube Beings in fear of their lives. 616 Celestials created the X-Gene that causes some humans to evolve into cosmic level beings.

Originally posted by zopzop
Tiamut was doing battle with FIVE Celestials, one of which was Arishem and as it's stated on panel by various writers :
http://imageshack.us/a/img15/6452/mostpowerful.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img19/2653/fallbacksb.jpg

"The most powerful of the Celestials", "The most dangerous of the Celestials", "The leader of the Celestials" whose arrival caused the other Celestials to "fall back" PLUS FOUR MORE.

AMPED Galactus couldn't handle 3 no names and alt reality Eson (as stated by the writer himself). Franklin couldn't handle 2 no names and alt reality Eson (as shown on panel).

Tiamut wins.
Again with this spammish bullsh1t. Tiamut fought Arishem in an extended battle before the rest of the Host jumped him. Tiamut failed to kill him, despite his every effort to do so.

You're the same guy that sh1ts all over narrative hyperbole and claims that it's nothing without on-panel feats to back it up, yet in this case you're blowing Arishem's power level out of proportion just because he's given flashy titles of power? GTFO here, zopocrite.

Galactus and Franklin killed Celestials in one-shots. The same Celestials who resisted an alternate UN, an alternate IG, and one of whom nearly one-shot killed a competent wielder of your precious Starbrand.

This fight is between Galactus and Franklin, and based on their on-panel portrayal at the hands of Hickman, it's honestly a toss-up between the 2. Personally I give Galactus the win. As said so many times before, Tiamut is beaten to death irrespective of who wins between Frank and G.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Again with this spammish bullsh1t. Tiamut fought Arishem in an extended battle before the rest of the Host jumped him. Tiamut failed to kill him, despite his every effort to do so.

You're the same guy that sh1ts all over narrative hyperbole and claims that it's nothing without on-panel feats to back it up, yet in this case you're blowing Arishem's power level out of proportion just because he's given flashy titles of power? GTFO here, zopocrite.

Galactus and Franklin killed Celestials in one-shots. The same Celestials who resisted an alternate UN, an alternate IG, and one of whom nearly one-shot killed a competent wielder of your precious Starbrand.

This fight is between Galactus and Franklin, and based on their on-panel portrayal at the hands of Hickman, it's honestly a toss-up between the 2. Personally I give Galactus the win. As said so many times before, Tiamut is beaten to death irrespective of who wins between Frank and G.
It's not hyperbole if MULTIPLE WRITERS are straight up stating Arishem is the most powerful of the Host. Their leader, the most dangerous. This wasn't one writer. This was MULTIPLE writers spanning YEARS of comics.

This is hyperbole?
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5673/1014936theinfinityguant.th.jpg
And Arishem is greater still!

Tiamut faced off against the most powerful of the Celestials and just as he gained the upper hand FOUR more jumped in. So he went down fighting against FIVE 616 Celestials, one of which was stated multiple times by multiple writers as being the most powerful of them.

Galactus couldn't handle 3 no names and an alt Eson. Franklin couldn't handle 2 no names an alt Eson. It's all right there on panel.

Originally posted by zopzop
It's not hyperbole if MULTIPLE WRITERS are straight up stating Arishem is the most powerful of the Host. Their leader, the most dangerous. This wasn't one writer. This was MULTIPLE writers spanning YEARS of comics.

This is hyperbole?
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5673/1014936theinfinityguant.th.jpg
And Arishem is greater still!

Tiamut faced off against the most powerful of the Celestials and just as he gained the upper hand FOUR more jumped in. So he went down fighting against FIVE 616 Celestials, one of which was stated multiple times by multiple writers as being the most powerful of them.

Galactus couldn't handle 3 no names and an alt Eson. Franklin couldn't handle 2 no names an alt Eson. It's all right there on panel.
Except it is hyperbole. Based on on-panel feats, we know there are at least 2 Celestials who completely dwarf Arishem in power.

Tiamut failed to kill one Celestial in extended combat despite having every opportunity to so. Tiamut then got subdued by the rest of the Host with not much lasting damage. At least not so much that the Host couldn't recover from. Franklin and Galactus both killed Celestials with one-shot attacks. This sh1t is simple enough for 4th graders to undertand, but I guess I am giving you way too much credit on that front.

Galactus wins.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Except it is hyperbole. Based on on-panel feats, we know there are at least 2 Celestials who completely dwarf Arishem in power.

Tiamut failed to kill one Celestial in extended combat despite having every opportunity to so. Tiamut then got subdued by the rest of the Host with not much lasting damage. At least not so much that the Host couldn't recover from. Franklin and Galactus both killed Celestials with one-shot attacks. This sh1t is simple enough for 4th graders to undertand, but I guess I am giving you way too much credit on that front.

Galactus wins.
Which two? Scathan is from an alt reality and Exitar's power level is unknown.

Tiamut was beating THE MOST POWERFUL of the Celestials in single combat till FOUR MORE 616 Celestials jumped in. Then he lost.

Galactus couldn't handle 4 (as stated by the writer himself and they didn't have to go all Voltron on him) and AFR couldn't handle 3 (as shown on panel).

Tiamut lost to FIVE (including the most powerful).

Last time I checked 5>4>3 right? Thought so.

Tiamut wins.

Originally posted by zopzop
Which two? Scathan is from an alt reality and Exitar's power level is unknown.

Tiamut was beating THE MOST POWERFUL of the Celestials in single combat till FOUR MORE 616 Celestials jumped in. Then he lost.

Galactus couldn't handle 4 (as stated by the writer himself and they didn't have to go all Voltron on him) and AFR couldn't handle 3 (as shown on panel).

Tiamut lost to FIVE (including the most powerful).

Last time I checked 5>4>3 right? Thought so.

Tiamut wins.
Concession accepted.

Btw, did I mention that Galactus won this thread? In case you didn't get the memo, then let me repeat it again: Galactus wins.

/thread

Exitar is the most powerful Celestial, more powerful than the whole 4th host combined. One Above All Celestial is the leader of all the Celestial by his position, and Arishem by position not by power is above the other Celestials.

Im taking Galactus and Franklin!!

Tiamut is the leader and most powerful of the Celestials

That's a fact

Tiamut wins this

Tiamut is not the leader, is he more powerful than Exitar ? But is Tiamut more powerful than average Celestial, yes! Tiamut gets stomp!!

Disagree friend

Did u see when the Celestials followed Tiamut in the last story. I did

None of the Celestials beside Tiamut can sing a song turning back time nearly 14 billion years, scare the hell out of Galactus, fight over a trillion Horde whose sole purpose is the destruction of the Universe. Is he more powerful than Exitar, yes he is. U can disagree and that's cool

Tiamut the Communicator wins this

Galactus tore into the Mad Celetaials that where tanking alternate IG and Starbrand before they went Predaking on him and end up killing 2 of them, Galactus being afraid of Tiamut is pretty much misleading trying to make Tiamut relevant again. Galactus was taking on Scrier and The Other and about to rip the multiverse into oblivion if they continuing fighting. Galactus was mention by the Wacther being powerful enough to destroy the universe 10x give or take sarcasm.

Galactus and Franklin win this


I agree with Tiamut being one of the most powerful Celestial the other being Exitar,

Originally posted by the Darkone
Galactus tore into the Mad Celetaials that where tanking alternate IG and Starbrand before they went Predaking on him and end up killing 2 of them, Galactus being afraid of Tiamut is pretty much misleading trying to make Tiamut relevant again. Galactus was taking on Scrier and The Other and about to rip the multiverse into oblivion if they continuing fighting. Galactus was mention by the Wacther being powerful enough to destroy the universe 10x give or take sarcasm.

Galactus and Franklin win this


I agree with Tiamut being one of the most powerful Celestial the other being Exitar,
They NEVER tanked an IG blast. Unless I'm missing something. The Starbrand is nothing but a planetary force now. Not even Skyfather or Trans level. So that's not impressive.

Proof scans that Arishem is not the leader of the Celestials, that The One Above All is? Proof scan that Exitar is more powerful than Arishem (and I don't mean that two panel splash page from that Thor Annual).

Originally posted by the Darkone
Galactus tore into the Mad Celetaials that where tanking alternate IG and Starbrand before they went Predaking on him and end up killing 2 of them, Galactus being afraid of Tiamut is pretty much misleading trying to make Tiamut relevant again. Galactus was taking on Scrier and The Other and about to rip the multiverse into oblivion if they continuing fighting. Galactus was mention by the Wacther being powerful enough to destroy the universe 10x give or take sarcasm.

Galactus and Franklin win this


I agree with Tiamut being one of the most powerful Celestial the other being Exitar, I doubt if the MC are powerful as Tiamut, Exitar or Arishem Gaiman take on the Eternals is canon

In Tiamut credit he did beat Arishem as he was on his knees before the others got the jump on him.

And here the Prime Celestials (616) are credited to predate the known reality, shape it, and split it into a multiverse in its infancy. Its also stated that they created a reality, to be the prison of their abomination.

The four present in the begining of time are Arishem, Eson, Tiamut, and Nezarr.

I also spotted Oneg, Gammenon, and I cant make out the last one.

http://imgur.com/cjcgu27
http://imgur.com/HWgswQz

So all the infinite universes within the multiverse used to comprise a single universe, until the Celestials physically shattered it? Interesting.

Is that from Greg Pak's recent Age of Apocalypse/X-treme X-Men tie-in?

If we're using that series to prove the Celestials awesome godlike power, then on the same note Tiamut is the first to fall in battle in this thread.

Galactus will simply repeat what that energy tick whom the Celestials sealed off in the prison universe did to the Dreamer, just on a much bigger scale.

Originally posted by zopzop
The "argument' is that Tiamut was BEATING "the greatest of the Celestials" till he was jumped by FOUR MORE and a protracted battle took place in which he ultimately lost.

Galactus HALF A GALAXY away feared his awakening.

Amped Galactus went up against 4 Rogues. KOed one no name Rogue and it was stated by the writer that he would have LOST even if they didn't merge to form Voltron.

Franklin had his hands full with only 3 (2 No Names and alt reality Eson) and would have lost if he didn't use 616 Franklin's power to rez Galactus.

Tiamut wins.

Fear isn't a feat. Different writers different opinions. We go by showings instead. Galactus was one-two shotting Celestials (who tanked the UN for crying out loud).

If you gone pick and choose then at least consider all the showings. And not just the ones you want.

They are also being outside of the creation event.

Oh and is the Fulcrum TOAA?

Originally posted by "Id"
Oh and is the Fulcrum TOAA?
In Gaiman's run, it was too obvious to be stated on-panel. Jack the Bartender, the Supreme Being that uses all characters as mere tools to run reality. Who else can that be?

Anyways, good to know that Celestials made their own maker, ala Multi-Eternity, before shattering him into his infinitesimally smaller universal aspects.

This, coupled with Chaos War, tells me that Pak will wank any super-powerful godlike entities as the supreme beings of reality.

Originally posted by "Id"
In Tiamut credit he did beat Arishem as he was on his knees before the others got the jump on him.

And here the Prime Celestials (616) are credited to predate the known reality, shape it, and split it into a multiverse in its infancy. Its also stated that they created a reality, to be the prison of their abomination.

The four present in the begining of time are Arishem, Eson, Tiamut, and Nezarr.

I also spotted Oneg, Gammenon, and I cant make out the last one.

http://imgur.com/cjcgu27
http://imgur.com/HWgswQz
Holy sh|t, that can't be canon.

Originally posted by h1a8
Fear isn't a feat. Different writers different opinions. We go by showings instead. Galactus was one-two shotting Celestials (who tanked the UN for crying out loud).

If you gone pick and choose then at least consider all the showings. And not just the ones you want.
Oh shut up.

Originally posted by zopzop
Holy sh|t, that can't be canon.
It is. As canon as Tiamut getting drained and killed by one of those "monsters". Under the same writer as well, in the very same series.

So where does this put higher-level Celestials, like Exitar? Omniversal?

^Definitely.

After all, Exitar is more powerful than the 4th Host combined--- and based on the scans posted earlier, it only took a few members of the 4th Host to preform a multiversal feat.

Exitar vs HoM Wanda or WF Mxy. Will make a good battle.

Originally posted by Galan007


After all, Exitar is more powerful than the 4th Host combined--- and based on the scans posted earlier, it only took a few members of the 4th Host to preform a multiversal feat.
Where is that stated?
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It is. As canon as Tiamut getting drained and killed by one of those "monsters". Under the same writer as well, in the very same series.
Didn't the Celestials make those energy ticks? So...

Originally posted by zopzop
Where is that stated?
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/85558/1676093-662737_pantheon.jpg
Originally posted by zopzop

Didn't the Celestials make those energy ticks? So...
Your sarcasm/satirical lowballing detector is as weak as your ability to flip-flop on any given issue is strong.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/8/85558/1676093-662737_pantheon.jpg

Your sarcasm/satirical lowballing detector is as weak as the strength of your ability to flip-flop on any given issue.
Fail. That scan is full of errors.

It stated the Beyonder's destruction of a galaxy was a mere illusion. But it was shown to be "real". Both in SW and in the follow up : Spiderman and the Secret Wars.

It stated Thor drove away a hungry Galactus by drawing on Odin's power. This never happened on panel. Thor Godblasted him.

Using that two page spread that's not even a part of ANY story and containing errors is retarded especially when it's not stated ANYWHERE on panel in any story.

And the fact is, the multiverse creating Celestials made those things to be DESTROYERS. There is ZERO proof Galactus can replicate what those creatures were SPECIFICALLY created to do by the creators of the multiverse.

Try again.

Originally posted by zopzop
Fail. That scan is full of errors.

It stated the Beyonder's destruction of a galaxy was a mere illusion. But it was shown to be "real". Both in SW and in the follow up : Spiderman and the Secret Wars.

It stated Thor drove away a hungry Galactus by drawing on Odin's power. This never happened on panel. Thor Godblasted him.

Using that two page spread that's not even a part of ANY story and containing errors is retarded especially when it's not stated ANYWHERE on panel in any story.

And the fact is, the multiverse creating Celestials made those things to be DESTROYERS. There is ZERO proof Galactus can replicate what those creatures were SPECIFICALLY created to do by the creators of the multiverse.

Try again.
Thor admitted that he might of been speculating in regards to the Beyonder statement.

Odin has been said to have given all Asgardians their life-forces many a time. They're part and parcel of the Odinforce. Technically speaking when Thor is charging up his Godblast with his life energies, he is invoking the Odin power.

Those monsters are energy drainers on a (potentially)cosmic scale. Galactus is an energy drainer on a (literally)cosmic scale. Do you even read your own arguments?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Thor admitted that he might of been speculating in regards to the Beyonder statement.

Odin has been said to have given all Asgardians their life-forces many a time. They're part and parcel of the Odinforce. Technically speaking when Thor is charging up his Godblast with his life energies, he is invoking the Odin power.

Those monsters are energy drainers on a (potentially)cosmic scale. Galactus is an energy drainer on a (literally)cosmic scale. Do you even read your own arguments?
You're reaching. Thor stated that Beyonder's power was more or less on Odin's scale and even compared Beyonder creating Battleworld to Odin shaping Asgard. FAIL. Beyonder's power was a match for Doom who had absorbed ALL the power from Galactus' solar system ship : TAA II. When Beyonder died, his energies created an ENTIRE UNIVERSE. So no.

And you are reaching like hell regarding that Thor/Galactus incident. On panel, no invoking of Odin was mentioned at all. Thor's Godblast hurled a weakened Galactus back. That's it.

So that panel has real errors on it. Now show me scans in an actual story that states Exitar is greater than the entire 4th Host.

Those monsters were created by the CREATORS OF THE MULTIVERSE for a SPECIFIC purpose. HTF is Galactus going to replicate that creature's feat?

Originally posted by zopzop
You're reaching. Thor stated that Beyonder's power was more or less on Odin's scale and even compared Beyonder creating Battleworld to Odin shaping Asgard. FAIL. Beyonder's power was a match for Doom who had absorbed ALL the power from Galactus' solar system ship : TAA II. When Beyonder died, his energies created an ENTIRE UNIVERSE. So no.

And you are reaching like hell regarding that Thor/Galactus incident. On panel, no invoking of Odin was mentioned at all. Thor's Godblast hurled a weakened Galactus back. That's it.

So that panel has real errors on it. Now show me scans in an actual story that states Exitar is greater than the entire 4th Host.

Those monsters were created by the CREATORS OF THE MULTIVERSE for a SPECIFIC purpose. HTF is Galactus going to replicate that creature's feat?
Thor never stated that. He thought the Beyonder's best feat was destroying a galaxy, something which has been accomplished by Odin a number of times.

Hardly. It has been mentioned many times that the life-forces of the Norse Gods are part of the greater Odinforce that flows throughout Asgard. Thor's Godblast is formed from his own godly life-energies. Which are derived from a portion of the Odinforce. Ergo Thor invoked the power of Odin when he defeated the malnourished Galactus.

What exactly is that purpose? To feed on matter and energy like a bunch of space-leeches. Which is similar to what Galactus does: feed on energy, just in his case he usually consumes planetary biospheric energies.

Humor me, flopflop.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Thor never stated that. He thought the Beyonder's best feat was destroying a galaxy, something which has been accomplished by Odin a number of times.

Hardly. It has been mentioned many times that the life-forces of the Norse Gods are part of the greater Odinforce that flows throughout Asgard. Thor's Godblast is formed from his own godly life-energies. Which are derived from a portion of the Odinforce. Ergo Thor invoked the power of Odin when he defeated the malnourished Galactus.
BS. Beyonder's "best" feat is creating an entire universe with his "death energies" (ps he didn't really die either). Beyonder busted that galaxy by himself, it wasn't a shared feat (Odin/Seth, Odin/Forsung, etc..). Beyonder's power in Spiderman's hands remade the universe in seconds.

Beyonder's fight with MM was transmultiversal (and this is POST retcon).

So fail.

Fact is, Thor NEVER invoked Odin and Odin isn't even mentioned on panel when Thor drove away Galactus. You're attempting to force your interpretation into the scene.

That two panel spread has ERRORS in it. Let it go. Now show me ON PANEL in an actual story where it's stated that Exitar is greater than the entire 4th Host.


Yeah, by this "logic" Tyrant can also replicate that energy tick's feat. I mean he's absorbed energies from the biosphere of planets and even the Power Cosmic. Tyrant was feeding on mystic objects like Storm Breaker too.

Yet somehow I'll bet you'll dispute this.

Fact is, the Creators of the Multiverse SPECIFICALLY created those things to do one thing : DESTROY. It's stated on panel.

Galactus has NOTHING to do with them and his purpose in creation isn't even remotely similar to those things. So you're reaching.

Originally posted by zopzop

BS. Beyonder's "best" feat is creating an entire universe with his "death energies" (ps he didn't really die either). Beyonder busted that galaxy by himself, it wasn't a shared feat (Odin/Seth, Odin/Forsung, etc..). Beyonder's power in Spiderman's hands remade the universe in seconds.

Beyonder's fight with MM was transmultiversal (and this is POST retcon).

So fail.

Fact is, Thor NEVER invoked Odin and Odin isn't even mentioned on panel when Thor drove away Galactus. You're attempting to force your interpretation into the scene.

That two panel spread has ERRORS in it. Let it go. Now show me ON PANEL in an actual story where it's stated that Exitar is greater than the entire 4th Host.

I am talking about what Thor thought. Not to mention Thor literally admitted in that scene that he had doubts about the feat, meaning he was unsure of the Beyonder's power-level alone. He did not express doubts about any of the other characters mentioned in that page.

I am forcing my interpretation on the scene? So you want to ignore all the times it has been outright mentioned that the Asgardians' life-forces are derived from the greater Odinpower? Because of the implications this has for every time Thor performs a Godblast, and how this fact literally validates what Thor claims in that panel?

You are a phucking zopocrite, you know that?

Originally posted by zopzop

Yeah, by this "logic" Tyrant can also replicate that energy tick's feat. I mean he's absorbed energies from the biosphere of planets and even the Power Cosmic. Tyrant was feeding on mystic objects like Storm Breaker too.
Good to see that you're finally beginning to comprehend the basic tenets of logical argumentation. The rest of your post is a waste to address, but I feel that we're getting somewhere here.

A question:

In Marvel we have a infinity number of multiverses. Celestials created the 616 multiverse ?

^The entirety of Marvel's actuality fluctuates from being a multiverse to an omniverse from story to story, writer to writer. For the purposes of Pak's storyline, it's implied that Marvel is a multiverse currently.

@flopflop
Anyways, I was talking strictly about what Galactus can do, not whether he's bound to try out such a strategy in this thread. It's not in his character to start eating a Celestial in combat, so arguing this is pointless anyways.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am talking about what Thor thought. Not to mention Thor literally admitted in that scene that he had doubts about the feat, meaning he was unsure of the Beyonder's power-level alone. He did not express doubts about any of the other characters mentioned in that page.

I am forcing my interpretation on the scene? So you want to ignore all the times it has been outright mentioned that the Asgardians' life-forces are derived from the greater Odinpower? Because of the implications this has for every time Thor performs a Godblast, and how this fact literally validates what Thor claims in that panel?

You are a phucking zopocrite, you know that?
Your only proof of anything is a two pages of filler in an Annual that isn't part of any story and containing errors.

Beyonder > Odin in feats and fights ON PANEL. Arishem is stated my varioius writers throughout the years as being the greatest/mightiest of the Celestials ON PANEL. Thor Godblasted Galactus away he didn't draw on power from anything else (exactly like he did vs Exitar).

Where is on panel proof that disputes this?


Oh please, neither Tyrant or Galactus could replicate what those ticks were SPECIFICALLY created to do by the makers of the very Multiverse.


Galactus tried eating an opponent ONCE that I can recall and it ended badly for him. So saying Galactus can replicate that tick's feat is fail.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Is that from Greg Pak's recent Age of Apocalypse/X-treme X-Men tie-in?

If we're using that series to prove the Celestials awesome godlike power, then on the same note Tiamut is the first to fall in battle in this thread.

Galactus will simply repeat what that energy tick whom the Celestials sealed off in the prison universe did to the Dreamer, just on a much bigger scale.

If he could, he would have done so with the Mad Celestial's. In anycase these things act as energy drains, across anything they come across. They could drain Galactus of its own power of cosmic.

Originally posted by zopzop

Your only proof of anything is a two pages of filler in an Annual that isn't part of any story and containing errors.

Beyonder > Odin in feats and fights ON PANEL. Arishem is stated my varioius writers throughout the years as being the greatest/mightiest of the Celestials ON PANEL.

Thor Godblasted Galactus away he didn't draw on power from anything else (exactly like he did vs Exitar).

Where is on panel proof that disputes this?


Oh please, neither Tyrant or Galactus could replicate what those ticks were SPECIFICALLY created to do by the makers of the very Multiverse.

I'd like to know how said 2-page filler becomes non-canon because it comes from an Annual.

How is that relevant? You tried to misconstrue what Thor states on those panels, when it's perfectly clear that Thor was unsure about the Beyonder's true power level when he made those statements. You purposefully lied to try and spin this as an error of sorts on the part of the writer, and now with your mistake pointed out to you, you're going into your traditional trollmode of "I M RITE! YOUR RONG!!!DURRR!!!!!!!". Stop. Just stop.

You do know what the Godblast is formed from, right? Thor's godly life-force, which is derived from the greater Odin-power flowing throughout Asgard, something that I have mentioned for the 5th or 6th time now. Or that it's channeled through a weapon that is enchanted by the Odinforce as well? Come out of your glopglop mode for a few seconds, and realize just how irrational your logic is sounding at this point.

Where is on-panel proof that disputes this?

Based on what?

Originally posted by "Id"
If he could, he would have done so with the Mad Celestial's. In anycase these things act as energy drains, across anything they come across.
Just because he didn't, doesn't mean he couldn't. I already admitted that it's not in-character for him to do so.
Originally posted by "Id"
They could drain Galactus of its own power of cosmic.
Maybe. I am not interested in arguing this atm.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Just because he didn't, doesn't mean he couldn't. I already admitted that it's not in-character for him to do so.

Maybe. I am not interested in arguing this atm.

Well you also need to consider that Tiamut (with the other Celestials), already confronted waves of these creatures, and beat them. However just one was enough to take him down.

This logically holds, considering Tiamut has been functioning on basic commands ever since his conscious acceded. And is drastically drained, thanks Sinister shenanigans.

At optimal levels, that lone creature would not have beaten him.

Well Galactus has absorbed Mephisto's entire dimension in the past before.

Originally posted by "Id"
Well you also need to consider that Tiamut (with the other Celestials), already confronted waves of these creatures, and beat them. However just one was enough to take him down.

This logically holds, considering Tiamut has been functioning on basic commands ever since his conscious acceded. And is drastically drained, thanks Sinister shenanigans.
Tiamut was actively fighting back when the creature got a hold of him, and when the X-Men managed to momentarily dislodge the energy tick, Tiamut started to run away from the fight. And in those same scans you posted on the previous page, it's stated that the Celestials couldn't destroy those abominations, hence the need for imprisoning them in the first place.

His ascension was actually retconned from what I gathered from Gillen's Uncanny X-Men run. I wouldn't say drastically drained either, because we don't know exactly how much juice Sinister hauled from him, and earlier in this series itself, Beast and Kurt demonstrated that Tiamut still had enough power to inadvertently rip a hole in the fabric of the multiverse when they opened an interdimensional portal to the AoA reality in Tiamut's body.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Well Galactus was about to attempt to devour has absorbed Mephisto's entire dimension in the past before.

Proof? Or you reaching yet again?

He was in the process of absorbing it, and there was nothing Mephisto could do to stop him, except give back his heralds.

Originally posted by zopzop
Proof? Or you reaching yet again?
Tiamut came back at the end of that story arc and gestured the Celestials to leave.

I am sure though, that a Host of Celestials(most of whom knew Tiamut before his imprisonment) can be fooled by a zombie corpse.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Tiamut was actively fighting back when the creature got a hold of him, and when the X-Men managed to momentarily dislodge the energy tick, Tiamut started to run away from the fight. And in those same scans you posted on the previous page, it's stated that the Celestials couldn't destroy those abominations, hence the need for imprisoning them in the first place.

His ascension was actually retconned from what I gathered from Gillen's Uncanny X-Men run. I wouldn't say drastically drained either, because we don't know exactly how much juice Sinister hauled from him, and earlier in this series itself, Beast and Kurt demonstrated that Tiamut still had enough power to rip a hole in the fabric of the multiverse when they opened an interdimensional portal to the AoA reality in Tiamut's body.

Interdimensional travel is possible for any low herald (or higher) or using the right equipment. Tiamut is hardly functioning at the levels seen prior to his ascension. The proof is right there in the same issue. Fighting waves >> getting taken out by one.

Originally posted by "Id"
Interdimensional travel is possible for any low herald (or higher) or using the right equipment. Tiamut is hardly functioning at the levels seen prior to his ascension. The proof is right there in the same issue. Fighting waves >> getting taken out by one.
Did you read my full post? What Kurt and Beast did inadvertently ended up tearing a hole in the multiverse. That's not a feat that run of the mill heralds can achieve, and for most high heralds, it's a big-time career highlight, a level of power which is displayed rarely and usually almost always as a shared feat.

Tiamut also had aid from other Celestials when he fought off "waves" of these beings.

Originally posted by Galan007
So all the infinite universes within the multiverse used to comprise a single universe, until the Celestials physically shattered it? Interesting.
The way I understand it.

616 in its infancy (about 12 billion years ago). Reality was copied, split, and divided. Erecting walls, to seal in their mistake around neither-space all done unnaturally by the Prime Celestials.

Than you have other divergent timelines, or divergent realities grow out. Those would be caused by natural events. The What If's, possible futures, and what have you.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Did you read my full post? What Kurt and Beast did inadvertently ended up tearing a hole in the multiverse. That's not a feat that run of the mill heralds can achieve, and for most high heralds, it's a big-time career highlight, a level of power which is displayed rarely and usually almost always as a shared feat.

Tiamut also had aid from other Celestials when he fought off "waves" of these beings.
Yes I read what you said. But no, I don't agree.

They simply attempted to crossover to their reality using the Celestial. They did not anticipate space/time to be extremely stressed, therefore blow a hole in reality thanks to their reality hope.

Originally posted by "Id"
They are also being outside of the creation event.

Oh and is the Fulcrum TOAA?

Not necessary true. IF they didn't predate the main universe then they are still part of creation. They just blew up the main universe into a multiverse.

Originally posted by Diesldude
Not necessary true. IF they didn't predate the main universe then they are still part of creation. They just blew up the main universe into a multiverse. Did you check out the scans?

IMO that's open to interpretation. They shaped creation doesn't make them the creator, or creators, nor does it mention that they created the main universe. But the scans do say that they created life, so I'm not confident in my view of this.

Originally posted by Diesldude
IMO that's open to interpretation. They shaped creation doesn't make them the creator, or creators, nor does it mentioned that they created the main universe. But the scans do say that they created life, so I'm not confident in my view of this.

No not about being creators. They clearly did not create the prime reality. But pre existing the creation event.

Originally posted by "Id"
No not about being creators. They clearly did not create the prime reality. But pre existing the creation event.


I'm just interested in how this fits in with Marvel's continuity and cosmic hierarchy.

As to this this thread, prior to today, I would have gone with Tiamut, but I'm not really sure any more.

Originally posted by "Id"
Yes I read what you said. But no, I don't agree.

They simply attempted to crossover to their reality using the Celestial. They did not anticipate space/time to be extremely stressed, therefore blow a hole in reality thanks to their reality hope.
The point is that inadvertently tearing a hole in the multiverse is a feat far beyond the scope of herald-level beings to achieve. The fact that Tiamut had enough energies to do so, without even actively participating in opening the portal himself, tells me he was fairly powerful in this event.

@Id:

Are scans from X-treme X-Men or Astonishing X-Men?

Originally posted by Diesldude
IMO that's open to interpretation. They shaped creation doesn't make them the creator, or creators, nor does it mention that they created the main universe. But the scans do say that they created life, so I'm not confident in my view of this.
The scans do mention that they split it into the current multiverse though. It's pretty clear from what Id posted: they "shaped" the original prime universe and created life in it, and when one of their experiments(the Exterminators) went horribly wrong, they separated the prime universe into a multiverse and sealed off those creatures in one of these new universes.

Originally posted by Diesldude
I'm just interested in how this fits in with Marvel's continuity and cosmic hierarchy.

It doesn't

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
@Id:

Are scans from X-treme X-Men or Astonishing X-Men?
Astonishing X-Men. They are memories from Tiamuts black box.

^Thanks.

That single issue isn't going to over-run more that 30 years of history.

That story makes no sense and flips Marvel's cosmological foundation up side down.

I don't accept it until it's corroborated in another title and/or Handbook.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That single issue isn't going to over-run more that 30 years of history.

That story makes no sense and flips Marvel's cosmological foundation up side down.

I don't accept it until it's corroborated in another title and/or Handbook.
That's what I said regarding the Chaos War "Elder God" origin retcon/retelling and I was told to shut up

Thats right, Celestials in your face, phucking up your hirachy. Canon!

Originally posted by Mr Master
That single issue isn't going to over-run more that 30 years of history.

That story makes no sense and flips Marvel's cosmological foundation up side down.

I don't accept it until it's corroborated in another title and/or Handbook.

We don't get to cherry pick, most recent takes precedence. Whether we like it or not.

That being said, I think most writers don't give a shit about continuity like this and they redo stuff the way they see fit depending on their current project. Particularly a writer like Pak.

Trying to fit everything into place is a waste of time and a cause for headaches.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
The point is that inadvertently tearing a hole in the multiverse is a feat far beyond the scope of herald-level beings to achieve. The fact that Tiamut had enough energies to do so, without even actively participating in opening the portal himself, tells me he was fairly powerful in this event.

I haven't read the issue in question so I'm a bit confused.

Did they tear a hole through the Multiversal structure or open a hole to another reality in the Multiverse, inadvertently doing damage because of the stress time/space was under?

There's a difference.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

We don't get to cherry pick, most recent takes precedence.

Whether we like it or not.
Thanx for the advice.

I actually didn't accept Scathan/Protege being above the LT.
In my personally created LT respect thread, I bash that whole incident,
and give concrete reasons why that shouldn't be.

Once I noticed Protege being referenced in another issue & LT's bio,
and Scathan being referenced in both LT's & Celestials bio,
I accepted it and everyone knows I now argue on behalf of Scathan/Protege.

So again ...
I won't this recent nonsense until it's reference in another story/title, and/or handbook.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Did they tear a hole through the Multiversal structure or open a hole to another reality in the Multiverse, inadvertently doing damage because of the stress time/space was under?

There's a difference.
They used the Dreaming Celestial's power to create a portal from the 616-universe to the AoA universe. They succeeded but also inadvertently opened a hole in the multiverse big enough for the Exterminators to escape their prison.

There honestly isn't. You can blow hole through a steel wall by directly firing a canon at it, or by ricocheting it from another surface. What Kurt and Beast did was analogous to the latter.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
They used the Dreaming Celestial's power to create a portal from the 616-universe to the AoA universe. They succeeded but also inadvertently opened a hole in the multiverse big enough for the Exterminators to escape their prison.

There honestly isn't. You can blow hole through a steel wall by directly firing a canon at it, or by ricocheting it from another surface. What Kurt and Beast did was analogous to the latter.

It is different.

And based on what you/Id have explained, then it's not far above Herald level power at all. Thor could accomplish the same with Mjolnir, Surfer could with the Power Cosmic etc.

Let me put it this way: You can punch down a steel wall and collapse it. Or you can cut hole through a steel wall with precision (What teleporters can do). It just turns out that the wall was in such bad condition, that the precision method still brought it crumbling down.

Well whatever, I don't particularly care.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Thanx for the advice.

I actually didn't accept Scathan/Protege being above the LT.
In my personally created LT respect thread, I bash that whole incident,
and give concrete reasons why that shouldn't be.

Once I noticed Protege being referenced in another issue & LT's bio,
and Scathan being referenced in both LT's & Celestials bio,
I accepted it and everyone knows I now argue on behalf of Scathan/Protege.

So again ...
I won't this recent nonsense until it's reference in another story/title, and/or handbook.

Again, current = precedence. We don't get to ignore it if it happens in a canon comic.

Call, it PIS, stupid, ignorant, disrespect for continuity I don't care. Just don't pretend it's inadmissible or invalid. Because as long as it happens in a canon comic, it is.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It is different.

And based on what you/Id have explained, then it's not far above Herald level power at all. Thor could accomplish the same with Mjolnir, Surfer could with the Power Cosmic etc.

Let me put it this way: You can punch down a steel wall and collapse it. Or you can cut hole through a steel wall with precision (What teleporters can do). It just turns out that the wall was in such bad condition, that the precision method still brought it crumbling down.
Thor has one similar feat like that under his belt, and there's a good reason why it's considered one of highest high-end feats and cements his position as one of the top high heralds in comics.

I'd like to see scans regarding what makes you think that the Surfer could pull it off.

The latter is far more impressive actually. When you punch the steel wall and supposedly "collapse" it, you're just pushing it down. But when you cut a hole in it, you're actually breaking/tearing an extremely hard material as opposed to just pushing it down with your fists. My canon firing analogy is more suitable in this case, because of unintentional nature of hole that they tore.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Well whatever, I don't particularly care.
If you go ahead and respond to this post, you prove yourself wrong.

Originally posted by zopzop
That's what I said regarding the Chaos War "Elder God" origin retcon/retelling and I was told to shut up
Shut up again. 31

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Shut up again. 31
sadwalk

Originally posted by Galan007
So all the infinite universes within the multiverse used to comprise a single universe, until the Celestials physically shattered it? Interesting. Krona?

Exitar vs HoM Wanda or WF Mxy.

The Celestial Host vs Lucifer Morningstar or Multi-Eternity.

Both should be good battles.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Exitar vs HoM Wanda or WF Mxy.

The Celestial Host vs Lucifer Morningstar or Multi-Eternity.

Both should be good battles.
Not really. A simple Asgardian axe dipped in Odin's blood or something just killed a Celestial.

Marvel is all over the place.

Originally posted by zopzop
Not really. A simple Asgardian axe dipped in Odin's blood or something just killed a Celestial.
Unless you're confusing the enchantment that Thor had to perform to enable his axe to obtain the ability to cleave through Celestial armor, I'd like to see scans of this incident.
Originally posted by zopzop
Marvel is all over the place.
Shut up. And I don't mean this jokingly.

Originally posted by zopzop
Not really. A simple Asgardian axe dipped in Odin's blood or something just killed a Celestial.
Found what I was looking for. In previous issues Odin stated that this axe was a curse now, and that Thor's actions would haunt Asgard and Midgard for centuries to come, and that they will all pay dearly for what Thor did.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Found what I was looking for. In previous issues Odin stated that this axe was a curse now, and that Thor's actions would haunt Asgard and Midgard for centuries to come, and that they will all pay dearly for what Thor did.

This changes things how?

Rash actions have repercussions. Odin told him to just leave Apoocalypse be (Pact with the Celestials) but he decided to start f*cking with shit.

Celestials are probably going to be pissed and come in force. Might start another war with Asgard over this, who knows.

^An explanation of sorts for why he didn't bother using this enchantment during his battle with the 4th Host.

Edit: Saw your edit. If those alone were his implications, why did he specifically mention the axe being a curse and breaker of worlds, flashy descriptions like that?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
^An explanation of sorts for why he didn't bother using this enchantment during his battle with the 4th Host.

Lol. Don't overthink things.

Besides, if the enchantment had existed back in the day, it wouldn't have made any difference. Celestials would have raped Odin anyways.

But this isn't the Thomas era where Odin was a shadow of what he once was and the Celestials were wanked as the greatest shit ever.

I'll forever be annoyed that Asgardian lore was shit on so greatly just to integrate those cosmic teapots into Marvel.

I am talking about in-comic continuity, not out-comic writer-separated eras.

The battle with the 4th Host happened in the 20th/21st century no? A 1000 years(give or take) after Thor's encounter with Apoc. Trying to tie the knots maybe a headache for writers, but I don't see why it should be forbidden for fans.

Hell, I myself am satisfied that Odin, indirectly got his redemption against the Celestials in this manner, not to mention the gravity of the feat becomes even more pronounced when we take into account Pak's recent wankery of Celestials.

Nobody cares whether you're annoyed or not. The comic book medium will sh1t on established characters in order to put over a new threat. The Celestials since then have been punked by Sue Richards, mincontrolled by Sinister, enslaved by the Badoon, struggled with Ego-Prime, lost to Galactus(while Odin performed decently enough) etc etc.

Edit:

Be happy with what you got instead of brooding over a decades old showing.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am talking about in-comic continuity, not out-comic writer-separated eras.

The battle with the 4th Host happened in the 20th/z1st century no? A 1000 years(give or take) after Thor's encounter with Apoc. Trying to tie the knots maybe a headache for writers, but I don't see why it should be forbidden for fans.

Lol, good luck with that headache then.

I'd like you to try and reconcile Asgardian continuity. During the Fraction/Gillen era it was literally stated that Gods have stories, not histories that are ever changing, different but nonetheless all true. Pretty much them telling us that continuity is worthless.

Of course Fraction is just a lazy bastard. His Bor somehow died when Odin and his brothers were just children in the world that existed before this one.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Hell, I myself am satisfied that Odin, indirectly got his redemption against the Celestials in this manner, not to mention the gravity of the feat becomes even more pronounced when we take into account Pak's recent wankery of Celestials.

I'm not. I hope Odin goes around and decapitates a few more of those arrogant f*ckers for good measure.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Nobody cares whether you're annoyed or not. The comic book medium will sh1t on established characters in order to put over a new threat. The Celestials since then have been punked by Sue Richards, mincontrolled by Sinister, enslaved by the Badoon, struggled with Ego-Prime, lost to Galactus(while Odin performed decently enough) etc etc.

My b*tching wasn't really pertinent to this thread, I was just pointing out why I'll always be a bit frustrated with the Celestials.

Meh, the Sue shit while disrespectful was a weakness exploitation. Didn't Sinister manipulate the shell of a dead Celestial? Can you give me an issue number for the Badoon thing, unfamiliar with that one.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Unless you're confusing the enchantment that Thor had to perform to enable his axe to obtain the ability to cleave through Celestial armor, I'd like to see scans of this incident.

Shut up. And I don't mean this jokingly. Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Found what I was looking for. In previous issues Odin stated that this axe was a curse now, and that Thor's actions would haunt Asgard and Midgard for centuries to come, and that they will all pay dearly for what Thor did.
Speaking of shutting up. You should take your own advice.

Asgardian Axe > A Member of the race that created the multiverse. Marvel is all over the place.

You and Rage win.

*Waves white flag before leaving this thread temporarily.*

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You and Rage win.

*Waves white flag before leaving this thread temporarily.*
No, we all lose. Stupid sh|t like this is why Marvel is a joke.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Didn't Sinister manipulate the shell of a dead Celestial? Can you give me an issue number for the Badoon thing, unfamiliar with that one.
That was actually Tiamut, the great Dreaming Celestial himself. And at the end of the series it was implied that he was still alive and inside his shell.

It was a GoTG story, and it was set in an alternate future. The Badoon used a cosmic cube to enslave the entire Celestial race and use them as giant power generators of sorts or something like that. All that during more or less the same time period(IIRC) when Kubik(a being evolved from a cosmic cube) was going around trembling in fear of a random no-name Celestial's power.

Edit: One could try to argue that the Badoon did that to alternate Celestials, but since Hickman recently solidified that alternate Celestials are more equal to their 616-counterparts, and Pak has all but mentioned that Celestials are unique in the multiverse, I guess this stands as a low showing as well. /shrugs

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You and Rage win.

*Waves white flag before leaving this thread temporarily.*

Do I get a price?

I didn't think we were even debating anything specifically just discussing random nerdy shit.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
That was actually Tiamut, the great Dreaming Celestial himself. And at the end of the series it was implied that he was still alive and inside his shell.

It was a GoTG story, and it was set in an alternate future. The Badoon used a cosmic cube to enslave the entire Celestial race and use them as giant power generators of sorts or something like that. All that during more or less the same time period(IIRC) when Kubik(a being evolved from a cosmic cube) was going around trembling in fear of a random no-name Celestial's power.

Oh, really? I thought he ascended to be come the big cheese or something? Didn't read a lot of Gaiman's work unfortunately (I'll do that sometime soon).

Oh, okay thanks.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh, really? I thought he ascended to be come the big cheese or something? Didn't read a lot of Gaiman's work unfortunately (I'll do that sometime soon).
Yeah, he was supposed to have done so, when he met the Fulcrum/TOAA. Apparently Gillen retconned that.

Originally posted by zopzop
No, we all lose. Stupid sh|t like this is why Marvel is a joke.
So, still giving the victory to Tiamut after all that's happened recently?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
So, still giving the victory to Tiamut after all that's happened recently?
It depends.

Assuming that weapon didn't exploit a weakness, like IW did when she went up against Exitar, then anything powerful enough to kill a Celestial should be powerful enough to kill Galactus or AFR.

If Celestials were easy to kill, Galactus wouldn't have been this surprised when Thanos with the HotU wrecked Ziran :
http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0306/07/m3.jpg

If you talking about the energy tick, then my answer is the same. That leech wrecked a member of the race that created the multiverse, it would wreck Galactus too.

I am not sure what that scan is supposed to prove, apart from the fact that Galactus is being surprised by something he himself achieved relatively easily several years later.
Originally posted by zopzop
Assuming that weapon didn't exploit a weakness, like IW did when she went up against Exitar, then anything powerful enough to kill a Celestial should be powerful enough to kill Galactus or AFR.
On a sidenote, it was like Reed's entropy gun. A random plot-device that Remender pulled out of his ass, much like Hickman. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes up to the Celestials by having them burn both Asgard and Earth to ashes and torture Odin and his ilk in the succeeding issues, with Thor and Apoc somehow coming in to save the day. Conversely, if the OdinVsCelestials rematch is done, and Odin manages to punk them, I wouldn't hold my breath either on that one.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am not sure what that scan is supposed to prove, apart from the fact that Galactus is being surprised by something he himself achieved relatively easily several years later.
He did no such thing. An AMPED verison of him went up against alt reality Celestials. As we've seen, it was the 616 version's death that surprised Galactus. Also, the 616 Celestials were the multiverse's creators. That alone puts them far above the alt reality rogues.


Like I said, assuming NO exploit weakness, that axe should wreck Galactus or Franklin just as easily. So it really doesn't figure into my decision as to who would win this three way showdown.

Originally posted by zopzop

He did no such thing. An AMPED verison of him went up against alt reality Celestials. As we've seen, it was the 616 version's death that surprised Galactus. Also, the 616 Celestials were the multiverse's creators. That alone puts them far above the alt reality rogues.

Have you even been following the Extermination storyline apart from a few random scans that Id posted?

Because if you haven't, here's news for you:
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2131/multiversalcelestials.jpg
Basically speaking, Pak has made Celestials unique throughout the multiverse. They don't have any parallel universe versions since they are the parallel versions of a single entity that exists across the multiverse.

Not to mention that what you're presuming here is entirely ignoring Hickman's intent, which was to portray the Mad Celestials as pretty much the mainstream Celestials' equals in every category save mental coherence.

Originally posted by zopzop

Like I said, assuming NO exploit weakness, that axe should wreck Galactus or Franklin just as easily. So it really doesn't figure into my decision as to who would win this three way showdown.
Hardly. Galactus has on-panel tanked an amped Godblast, while one of the most powerful Celestials had his braincase(which is supposed to be even harder than their armor) blown by a regular one. Franklin also tanked multiple shots from the Celestials, while they fell to just single shots from him.

Pussy attacks like an enchanted axe or an entropy gun might put down Celestials like the big wimps they are, but there is no conclusive proof that they can effect Franklin or Galactus as well.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Have you even been following the Extermination storyline apart from a few random scans that Id posted?

Because if you haven't, here's news for you:
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2131/multiversalcelestials.jpg
Basically speaking, Pak has made Celestials unique throughout the multiverse. They don't have any parallel universe versions since they are the parallel versions of a single entity that exists across the multiverse.

Not to mention that what you're presuming here is entirely ignoring Hickman's intent, which was to portray the Mad Celestials as pretty much the mainstream Celestials' equals in every category save mental coherence.
That means that 616 Eson is dead because Rogue Eson bit the dust? Makes no sense.

Also Hickman's intent means nothing unless it's stated on panel. Writers opinions are even less proof than Handbook entries which are less proof than what's on panel. I could have sworn this was a forum rule.



When did Galactus tank a Godblast? I hope you don't mean that one attack with Rachel/Surfer/Thor in that THor Annual because that's vague as hell and inconclusive.

Also, Exitar was blasted with a Godblast so powerful it shattered Mjolnir. Not to mention this blast happened INSIDE Exitar's M-body.

Regarding the Entropy Gun, it was stated it was so effective because Celestials bleed energy. Well Galactus has been shown to BOTH bleed blood and energy, depending on who is writing the story.

If the axe straight up killed the Celestial sans exploit weakness, it should wreck Galactus or Franklin.

Originally posted by zopzop

That means that 616 Eson is dead because Rogue Eson bit the dust? Makes no sense.

Also Hickman's intent means nothing unless it's stated on panel. Writers opinions are even less proof than Handbook entries which are less proof than what's on panel. I could have sworn this was a forum rule.

Take it up with Pak.

I guess that means then that Hickman's statements pertaining how Galactus' showdown with the Mad Celestials would've gone down had they not combined doesn't mean anything either. As well as his comments on Franklin's supposed death and resurrection at the hands of Galactus. Since, you know, writer intent means nothing to you, we should discard these statements as well and accept that Galactus was the strongest non-combined entity portrayed in that arc.

Originally posted by zopzop

When did Galactus tank a Godblast? I hope you don't mean that one attack with Rachel/Surfer/Thor in that THor Annual because that's vague as hell and inconclusive.

Also, Exitar was blasted with a Godblast so powerful it shattered Mjolnir. Not to mention this blast happened INSIDE Exitar's M-body.

Regarding the Entropy Gun, it was stated it was so effective because Celestials bleed energy. Well Galactus has been shown to BOTH bleed blood and energy, depending on who is writing the story.

If the axe straight up killed the Celestial sans exploit weakness, it should wreck Galactus or Franklin.
Unless you're a Thor fan, in which case you could try to raise some arguments to dispute what that attack was, I am not sure whether you can prove it wasn't a Godblast, since we already have proof contrary to such a notion based on the wording of the narrative description of the attack.

Doesn't matter. It goes to show that while Galactus can tank an amped GB head-on, Exitar's most durable body part can't to the same to a regular one.

In that same series Galactus was heavily implied to be the sole survivor(apart from adult Franklin) of the eventual Heat Death of the Universe. Google what the Heat Death means, and laugh at your argument.

No, it wouldn't, seeing how it killed neither Apoc(who was wearing Celestial armor in that instance) nor Thor.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Take it up with Pak.

I guess that means then that Hickman's statements pertaining how Galactus' showdown with the Mad Celestials would've gone down had they not combined doesn't mean anything either. As well as his comments on Franklin's supposed death and resurrection at the hands of Galactus. Since, you know, writer intent means nothing to you, we should discard these statements as well and accept that Galactus was the strongest non-combined entity portrayed in that arc.

Yeah it means the most amped version of Galactus seen on panel was more powerful than any individual member of the Rogue Celestials. Three no names and Eson.

Tiamut took out Arishem and was jumped by FOUR members of the Second Host.




a) Prove it was a Godblast
b) Once you prove a), prove how it was more powerful than this version of the Godblast that destroyed Mjolnir despite Thor's efforts to reinforce it with his Belt of Strength :
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/134088/2680983-thormjolnir139godblast3.jpg
Note that Thor was chanting an ancient spell prior to Godblasting.
c) No one cares about the Heat Death of a universe. There are MULTIPLE universes in a given multiverse and multiple multiveres in a megaverse and multiple megaverses in an omniverse. Galactus will survive the heat death of ONE universe, meanwhile the ASPECTS of 616 reality Celestials will continue on with their thing seeing as how they are MULTIVERSAL beings.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
He failed to kill any of them, and I referred the Doom scan in my response to Magnon.

So yeah, still pretty much a non-factor in this fight is the Dreaming Celestial.

See above. Originally posted by "Id"
The problem is, back then they where written as incapable of being destroyed by each others hand. This does not apply to Franklin Richards, or Galactus. Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Knowhere. And they couldn't be destroyed by anything based on Tiamut's account, not just by each other.

It absolutely does, as both stories are part of canon. Celestials were pretty much destructible even before Gaiman's take, and have remained so post-Gaiman.

what tiamut meant was that they cannot be destroyed, and even fellow celestials who know the secrets of their being still don't know how or are unable to kill one of their own.

a celestial dying by the HOTU is kind cheating since it can do anything

Originally posted by zopzop

Yeah it means the most amped version of Galactus seen on panel was more powerful than any individual member of the Rogue Celestials. Three no names and Eson.

Tiamut took out Arishem and was jumped by FOUR members of the Second Host.

"Most amped version of Galactus seen on panel." I loled loudly at this.

Nice avoiding of the blatant double-standard that I pointed out regarding your hypocritical stance on Hickman's off-panel statements about those fights.

Originally posted by zopzop

a) Prove it was a Godblast
b) Once you prove a), prove how it was more powerful than this version of the Godblast that destroyed Mjolnir despite Thor's efforts to reinforce it with his Belt of Strength :
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/134088/2680983-thormjolnir139godblast3.jpg
Note that Thor was chanting an ancient spell prior to Godblasting.
c) No one cares about the Heat Death of a universe. There are MULTIPLE universes in a given multiverse and multiple multiveres in a megaverse and multiple megaverses in an omniverse. Galactus will survive the heat death of ONE universe, meanwhile the ASPECTS of 616 reality Celestials will continue on with their thing seeing as how they are MULTIVERSAL beings.
a)Read the comic. You'll find what you're looking for.

b)I am not sure what this oversized scan is supposed to prove, apart from the fact that a regular GB(albeit Thor's most powerful one) destroyed the most durable part of Exitar's body, while an amped one failed to make a dent on Galactus.

c)Stupid non-sequiter. You literally claimed that since those entropy guns could affect Celestials, and since Galactus is more or less supposed to be similar to the Celestias in terms of both power and physiology, therefore Galactus too would fall to these things. I again discredited this fecal line of reasoning by highlighting what was implied regarding Galactus' fate during the Heat Death of the Universe, to which you failed to provide an adequate counter. On this note, I'll take your goal-posting shifting as a cloaked concession.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
what tiamut meant was that they cannot be destroyed, and even fellow celestials who know the secrets of their being still don't know how or are unable to kill one of their own.

a celestial dying by the HOTU is kind cheating since it can do anything
I know very well what Tiamut meant, and it is pretty much meaningless in light of everything that has happened since, and I am not even talking about the HoTU incident in this case. Not sure what you're trying to prove here though, since our interpretations of Tiamut's words are more or less identical.

Anyways, Tiamut should have told that to the energy tick that drained and killed him. Prolly' would have dissuaded the Exterminator from doing what it did to the Dreamer.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
"Most amped version of Galactus seen on panel." I loled loudly at this.

Nice avoiding of the blatant double-standard that I pointed out regarding your hypocritical stance on Hickman's off-panel statements about those fights.
I just agreed with you, we can disregard Hickman's formspring comments. It still doesn't change anything.

Most powerful version of Galactus on panel was more powerful than any individual member of the Rogue Celestials. Who were those Rogues? Three no names and an Eson.

Tiamut took out Arishem and was jumped by FOUR members of the Second Host (hint, they weren't no names).




So you can't prove a) and are completely ignoring that in b) Thor uttered a spell, reinforced Mjolnir with his Belt of Strength and Mjolnir STILL shattered under the strain of the Godblast. Yet Mjolnir was just fine when Thor/Rachel/Surfer channeled their power through it. Something is off, no?

I countered that moronic "Heat Death" argument. The Celestials ARE MULTIVERSAL. They'll survive the Heat Death of a SINGLE UNIVERSE just fine. In fact, they'll survive the Heat Death of MULTIPLE UNIVERSES just fine. Sh|t, they'll survive the Heat Death of an almost INFINITE NUMBER OF Universes just fine because they are MULTIVERSAL BEINGS and there is only ONE of them in a given multiverse. Once Galactus dies, thats it. He's done unless another force or power intervenes and resurrects him.

And who cares what was implied, here it is ON PANEL :
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3716/18168201493984drstrange.th.png
Dr. Strange saving Galactus' ass from Death. So much for an IMPLIED statement that he would make it to the end. If Dr. Strange didn't jump in, he'dve been dead during Infinity War. Plus he was also killed by Abraxas and resurrected by Franklin and Valeria Richards. He was at Death's door when he ate the unkillable Elders and had to be saved by Order/Chaos. Implied don't mean sh|t when on panel proof says otherwise.

Each time he would have been dead if he wasn't saved by someone else. IF he really does make it to the heat death of a universe, its' because other beings have already pitched in and pulled his fat out of the fire and I'm sure they'll do so again for that charity case.

Originally posted by zopzop

I just agreed with you, we can disregard Hickman's formspring comments. It still doesn't change anything.

Most powerful version of Galactus on panel was more powerful than any individual member of the Rogue Celestials. Who were those Rogues? Three no names and an Eson.

Tiamut took out Arishem and was jumped by FOUR members of the Second Host (hint, they weren't no names).

No you didn't. You claimed that Galactus was only individually more powerful than the Mad Celestials, when(disregarding Hickman's commentary) he was actually more powerful than them as a team.

Those Rogues had more feats in 2 issues than the 4th Host have had in decades. Hell, one of them straight up tanked an alternate UN. Arishem on the other hand just got killed by an Asgardian enchanted axe. At least the entropy gun was described as being "universal", the axe is just a cleaver of worlds. Based on description alone, a multi-planetary wrecker is enough to outright murder the mightiest member of the 4th Host, while a universal weapon is needed to kill a random, alternate "Rogue". So much for your high and mighty Arishem.

Tiamut fought an extended battle with one Celestial, and failed to put him down for the count. Tiamut got wrecked by the rest of the Host. Galactus(since we're now diregarding Hickman's comments) would have handily dealt with all 4 had they not combined to kamikaze his ass. Franklin Richards was coming from holding off a multiversal collapse, and he still managed to kill one before the others started to overwhelm him.

Originally posted by zopzop

So you can't prove a) and are completely ignoring that in b) Thor uttered a spell, reinforced Mjolnir with his Belt of Strength and Mjolnir STILL shattered under the strain of the Godblast. Yet Mjolnir was just fine when Thor/Rachel/Surfer channeled their power through it. Something is off, no?

I countered that moronic "Heat Death" argument. The Celestials ARE MULTIVERSAL. They'll survive the Heat Death of a SINGLE UNIVERSE just fine. In fact, they'll survive the Heat Death of MULTIPLE UNIVERSES just fine. Sh|t, they'll survive the Heat Death of an almost INFINITE NUMBER OF Universes just fine because they are MULTIVERSAL BEINGS and there is only ONE of them in a given multiverse. Once Galactus dies, thats it. He's done unless another force or power intervenes and resurrects him.

And who cares what was implied, here it is ON PANEL :
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3716/18168201493984drstrange.th.png
Dr. Strange saving Galactus' ass from Death. So much for an IMPLIED statement that he would make it to the end. If Dr. Strange didn't jump in, he'dve been dead during Infinity War. Plus he was also killed by Abraxas and resurrected by Franklin and Valeria Richards. He was at Death's door when he ate the unkillable Elders and had to be saved by Order/Chaos. Implied don't mean sh|t when on panel proof says otherwise.

Each time he would have been dead if he wasn't saved by someone else. IF he really does make it to the heat death of a universe, its' because other beings have already pitched in and pulled his fat out of the fire and I'm sure they'll do so again for that charity case.
Nothing is off except your excrement of a logic. Both a) and b) have been sufficiently addressed, but it would take only a glopglop like you to completely ignore the arguments presented and go into your "I M RITE!!YOUR RONG!!!DURR!!!!" trollmode.

You countered nothing. Me bringing up the Heat Death was in specific correlation to your moronic claim that since the Celestials have been affected by a universal entropy based weapon, therefore Galactus would be too. You responded with a complete and utter non-sequiter revolving around the new multiversal nature that Pak has ascribed to Celestials, and I again pointed out the invalidity of this response, the subtlety of which has been lost on you. And now you are going one step ahead into the realm of true retard, and claiming that the Celestials could survive the Heat Death of all universes, when one of them couldn't even survive a weaponized version of the Heat Death? Stop. Just stop.

Lol. In that very same comic, Death literally mentions that Galactus is strong enough to eventually reform himself and the others as well subsequently. I am not sure what you're trying to prove here, that the very Abstract embodiment of death(who also happened to outperform multiple Celestials against Cancerverse) is required to keep Galactus in a dissipated form. Not to mention that this fail response has nothing to do with the Heat Death of the Universe anyways.

Edit: Double lolz at that.

Damn,first time I seen Zop gets told in a cosmic debate

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
No you didn't. You claimed that Galactus was only individually more powerful than the Mad Celestials, when(disregarding Hickman's commentary) he was actually more powerful than them as a team.

Those Rogues had more feats in 2 issues than the 4th Host have had in decades. Hell, one of them straight up tanked an alternate UN. Arishem on the other hand just got killed by an Asgardian enchanted axe. At least the entropy gun was described as being "universal", the axe is just a cleaver of worlds. Based on description alone, a multi-planetary wrecker is enough to outright murder the mightiest member of the 4th Host, while a universal weapon is needed to kill a random, alternate "Rogue". So much for your high and mighty Arishem.

Tiamut fought an extended battle with one Celestial, and failed to put him down for the count. Tiamut got wrecked by the rest of the Host. Galactus(since we're now diregarding Hickman's comments) would have handily dealt with all 4 had they not combined to kamikaze his ass. Franklin Richards was coming from holding off a multiversal collapse, and he still managed to kill one before the others started to overwhelm him.

He tanked an ALTERNATE version of the UN. The 616 version of the UN was capable of destroying Abraxas and undoing the MULTIVERSAL level damage he wrecked. Show me proof that that alt reality UN was as powerful as the 616 version.

Tiamut wasn't fighting 3 no names and an Eson. Tiamut was going up against the "mightiest" of the Celestials and HAD HIM ON HIS KNEES when the rest of the Second Host jumped in. Not four no names, NAMED Celestials jumped in after the "mightiest" of them was on his knees before Tiamut :
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh79/lorrdraiden/Celestial_Tiamat_Civil_War.jpg



You countered nothing and are just rambling at this point.

You have yet to prove it was a Godblast that Team Thor used against the Trio (Galactus/Scrier/The OTher) in that Thor Annual. If/when you prove that, you have to prove it was MORE powerful than the Godblast Thor used against Exitar. The Godblast Thor used against Exitar SHATTERED a REINFORCED Mjolnir. Mjlonir survived the strain of that blast Team used against the Trio. Explain how out of all the Godblasts Thor has ever done on panel (even ASSUMING the did one with Rachel/Surfer), the only time A (REINFORCED) MJOLNIR was shattered was the one used against Exitar.

Regarding the entropy gun, I merely pointed out that according to Reed on panel, the reason why it was so effective is because the Rogues bleed energy. Well Galactus "bleeds" energy or blood too depending on the writer. So if that's the reason why it was so effective against the Celestials.........put two and two together. Even you can understand this.

The "Heat Death" garbage you brought up was just that garbage. Surviving till the end of a SINGLE universe isn't impressive when you compare it to beings that are MULTIVERSAL in scope. Understand?

Also that scan straight up says, Death would have claimed Galactus IF STRANGE'S aura wasn't stopping her. Read the entire issue, that point is made clear as day.

And I also gave you examples of Galactus getting his fat pulled from the fire MULTIPLE times. So IF he really does survive to the heat death of the universe (all this merely being IMPLIED), it's because other beings have already saved his ass and probably will save his ass again in the future.

The Celestials don't need anyone saving them. Even the "death" of one of their aspects in any given universe is meaningless since they exist simultaneously in ALL universes in the multiverse. Understand now?

Originally posted by zopzop
He tanked an ALTERNATE version of the UN. The 616 version of the UN was capable of destroying Abraxas and undoing the MULTIVERSAL level damage he wrecked. Show me proof that that alt reality UN was as powerful as the 616 version.
Not sure what this supposed to prove. First of all, there is doubt over whether it was even an alternate UN or the 616 version given how it was last seen in Reed's hands coupled with the fact that Val has a tendency to mess with her dad's stuff. But for the sake of the argument, let's presume that it was an alternate UN. How exactly does the feat get diminished, when we have seen an alternate UN erase a whole reality on 2 different occasions(Korvac and the dying Eternity)?
Originally posted by zopzop
Tiamut wasn't fighting 3 no names and an Eson. Tiamut was going up against the "mightiest" of the Celestials and HAD HIM ON HIS KNEES when the rest of the Second Host jumped in. Not four no names, NAMED Celestials jumped in after the "mightiest" of them was on his knees before Tiamut :
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh79/lorrdraiden/Celestial_Tiamat_Civil_War.jpg
Again with this bullsh1t. This mightiest of the 4th Host recently got dropped by an Asgardian enchanted axe, while it took a universal weapon to put down a random Mad Celestial. Those 4 "non-name alternate Rogues" had more feats in 2 or 3 issues than the 616-Celestials have had in decades, and the reason that you either ignore or outright lowball those instances is because you can't take the implications of such a notion.
Originally posted by zopzop
You countered nothing and are just rambling at this point.
Irony abounds.
Originally posted by zopzop
You have yet to prove it was a Godblast that Team Thor used against the Trio (Galactus/Scrier/The OTher) in that Thor Annual. If/when you prove that, you have to prove it was MORE powerful than the Godblast Thor used against Exitar. The Godblast Thor used against Exitar SHATTERED a REINFORCED Mjolnir. Mjlonir survived the strain of that blast Team used against the Trio. Explain how out of all the Godblasts Thor has ever done on panel (even ASSUMING the did one with Rachel/Surfer), the only time A (REINFORCED) MJOLNIR was shattered was the one used against Exitar.

It was a GB based on narrative description. It was being empowered by 2 other Heralds aas well, hence an amped GB. It failed to make a dent on Galactus, while a regular(albeit Thor's strongest) one destroyed Exitar's most durable body part. I am guessing you'll keep spamming this point on and on ad infinitum no matter how many times I address it.

As far as the strength of the Exitar Godblast goes, do you want me to bring up our age old argument where you spammed nonsense for pages on regarding how the Juggernaut Godblast was equal to the Exitar Godblast in magnitude, simply because of narrative description? I don't want to invoke ODG's brutality and set you on a self-arguing/destroying path, but you're leaving me out of options here.
Originally posted by zopzop
Regarding the entropy gun, I merely pointed out that according to Reed on panel, the reason why it was so effective is because the Rogues bleed energy. Well Galactus "bleeds" energy or blood too depending on the writer. So if that's the reason why it was so effective against the Celestials.........put two and two together. Even you can understand this.
And I countered that by bringing up what would happen to Galactus at the Heat Death of the Universe. I then specifically told you to google what the Heat Death means, because of it's close relation to Reed's Univeral Entropy weapon. You blatantly disregarded my advice and went on a stupid off-tangent blabbering(which I'll crush below) about the Celestials' multiversal nature(courtesy of Pak). I am not sure whether you have some neural impairments, or you're doing this to simply annoy me.
Originally posted by zopzop
The "Heat Death" garbage you brought up was just that garbage. Surviving till the end of a SINGLE universe isn't impressive when you compare it to beings that are MULTIVERSAL in scope. Understand?
First of all, don't ever tell anyone that what they post on here is garbage, because the only garbage that has been flung about on this thread so far has been spouted by you. You're the same idiotguy who argued for pages on and on that Reed was omniscient, you're the same buffoonfellow who once argued that Thor can stalemate Mephisto in his own realm, you're the same dumbassdude who tried to argue that Odin>LT, you're the same retardperson who blindly went into ODG's bait thread and ended up arguing with yourself for 3 continuous pages and making a fool of yourself in the process.

Still stuck on that multiversal non-sequiter, I see.
Originally posted by zopzop
Also that scan straight up says, Death would have claimed Galactus IF STRANGE'S aura wasn't stopping her. Read the entire issue, that point is made clear as day.

And I also gave you examples of Galactus getting his fat pulled from the fire MULTIPLE times. So IF he really does survive to the heat death of the universe (all this merely being IMPLIED), it's because other beings have already saved his ass and probably will save his ass again in the future.
More irrelevant crap. What does you bringing up the Abstract Embodiment of Death needing to keep Galactus in a dissipated state have to do with anything here, particularly when that same Abstract embodiment of Death outperformed nearly 2 dozen Celestials(616 at that) against Cancerverse.
Originally posted by zopzop
The Celestials don't need anyone saving them. Even the "death" of one of their aspects in any given universe is meaningless since they exist simultaneously in ALL universes in the multiverse. Understand now?
Tell that to Tiamut who was drained and destroyed by an energy tick. Or Arishem who got killed by an Asgardian enchanted axe.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Not sure what this supposed to prove. First of all, there is doubt over whether it was even an alternate UN or the 616 version given how it was last seen in Reed's hands coupled with the fact that Val has a tendency to mess with her dad's stuff. But for the sake of the argument, let's presume that it was an alternate UN. How exactly does the feat get diminished, when we have seen an alternate UN erase a whole reality on 2 different occasions(Korvac and the dying Eternity)?

Again with this bullsh1t. This mightiest of the 4th Host recently got dropped by an Asgardian enchanted axe, while it took a universal weapon to put down a random Mad Celestial. Those 4 "non-name alternate Rogues" had more feats in 2 or 3 issues than the 616-Celestials have had in decades, and the reason that you either ignore or outright lowball those instances is because you can't take the implications of such a notion.

Irony abounds.
The point was that alt reality items are useless in VS threads because they are all over the place. 616 Reality UN can undo multiversal damage. Alt reality Un in Korvac's hands ended a universe. Alt reality Un in Reed's hands couldn't kill a Celestial. See the difference in power?

616 Reality IG owned abstracts. Alt reality IG in Doom's hands shattered vs the Celestials. See the difference?

ON PANEL Arishem is outright STATED not IMPLIED to be the most powerful, the leader, the mightiest of the Celestials. By multiple writers throughout the years. I even provided the scans earlier in the thread. Tiamut beat that guy. Then he was jumped by the entire Second Host in a combined sneak attack.

4 Planet Amp Galactus had his hands full with three no names and an Eson.


The one thing that muddles that whole Juggerblasg vs Exitar blast was how weakened was Thor when he fired it off. Also, and more importantly, I did overlook something originally in the Exitarblast. Thor was chanting something before he fired off the Exitarblast. He's never done that before or since when firing off a Godblast and it was in that instance that even a braced Mjolnir shattered under the strain of the GB.

So again. Prove that what Team Thor did vs the Cosimic Trio was a Godblast. Then we'll move on from there. Then answer why a reinforced Mjolnir was reduced to rubble when with the Exitarblast but just fine every other time he's used a GB.


Your "heat death" IMPLIED statement is MEANINGLESS because ON PANEL the reason why the entropy gun was so effective was because Celestials bleed energy.

We have ON PANEL examples of Galactus bleeding energy. If you want I can provide them :
1) When he was bleeding/leaking energy as he was lying dead from eating the unkillable Elders
2) When Teneberous put him on his ass, he was bleeding energy from his side
3) When Odin headbutted him, he was leaking energy as his form was shattered and he was lying on the ground before he reformed himself.

So if the entropy gun was so effective because it's target bled energy................

*******And Reed is omniscient or at least has been portrayed as such on certain occasions. Need I remind you that it was Reed's mind that held the universe together when he and Alien Entity created 616 reality.

Bump