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I once touched upon this topic with Rage and zopzop and I think its something worth discussing in detail...

In comics (both in Marvel and DC) you have characters performing feats that are far beyond what they really should be accomplishing (IMHO of course)...as a result, I fully believe dam near every aspect of both DC and Marvel comics needs to be retconned.

Now assumming that it was up to you, how would you rebalance everything so that there is atleast some logic and consistency in the type of feats various characters are able to perform?

I'll go 1st to give an example of what I am asking for:


Street Level
Low: Can beat up the weak and the Elderly...or a normal person that is physically impared in some way; may be grossly out of shape and slow for example.
Mid: Can beat up common crooks/thugs.
High: Can beat up a very skilled and physically powerful opponent...Brock Lesnar for example.

Enhanced
Low: Can defeat scores of normal humans without much effort.
Mid: Can go crazy and wreck vehicles and small buildings one after another.
High: Can wreck large buildings and devastate city blocks.

Herald
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Deimos (12km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Phobos (22km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Saturn Moon Siarnaq (32km diameter).

Trans
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Saturn Moon Dione (1120km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Neptune Moon Triton (2706km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Jupiter Moon Io (3636km diameter).

Skyfather
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a small planet; Mars (6800km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a medium sized planet; Earth (12756km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a large planet; Neptune (49500km diameter).

Elder God
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a gas giant; Saturn (120536km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a small star; Red Dwarf (210000km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with an average star; Our Sun (1390000km diameter).

Cube Being
Low: Can reality warp several solar systems at will.
Mid: Can reality warp dozens of solar systems at will.
High: Can reality warp a small pocket dimension at will.

Abstract/High Powered Cosmic
Low: Can bust a Galaxy.
Mid: Can bust a Galactic Cluster.
High: Can bust a Super Cluster.

God Tier
Low: Can wreck havok on a universal scale at will.
Mid: Can destroy a universe, but not all at once.
High: Can 1 shot an entire universe.


Dam that took alot of time (prays this doesnt get locked; I put alot of effort into this)....

Anyway, again, how would you all rebalance the comic book tiers/power levels if it were up to you?

Quasi-bump since the original was closed...

What I have never understood is why most of these tierings are almost always based upon the titles used in Marvel.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
What I have never understood is why most of these tierings are almost always based upon the titles used in Marvel.

Good question...

Maybe its because of the people that do them just happen to like Marvel more?

IIRC, they were brought up because they just suited the tiers.

And Metahuman is as much a DC term as it is a Marvel one. More-so, probably.

LoM, going by your criteria, Odin is an abstract being.

Originally posted by -Pr-
IIRC, they were brought up because they just suited the tiers.

And Metahuman is as much a DC term as it is a Marvel one. More-so, probably.



Metahumans are to DC as Mutants are to Marvel, albeit with somewhat less persecution and fear.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank


Metahumans are to DC as Mutants are to Marvel, albeit with somewhat less persecution and fear.

Pretty much, yep.

==

So is this thread designed as a new tier listing?

LOM...are we basing this off of recent portrayals or the character entire history?

Wassup carter.

Just read the OP in more detail. Honestly my tiers wouldn't be much different to the accepted one here on KMC; I'd just adjust for people who've gotten a push in the last year.

I've always found tiers to be somewhat problematic. It seems like characters that have one very specific ability at a trans level often get equated with characters that have a vast array of abilities simply because that one skill. For instance, Man-Thing is far too durable/has too good of regeneration to put him in the Enhanced category, but lacks any other real powers to make him a herald. I think Hulk is also an issue (and, in fact, looking at the divisions above, it is ranked almost entirely in terms of destructive potential, meaning someone like Cyclops would be ranked far too high ).

It is probably way too much effort, but I've always thought breaking it down into a numeric system for different properties. So, like, for strength you might have:

0 - No strength, character is intangible and can't physically affect the world
1 - less than basic human, child, elderly
2 - Basic human
3 - Enhanced Human
4 - something between 2-100 tons
5 - something between 2-100 tons
6 - something between 2-100 tons
7 - something between 2-100 tons
8 - ~100 tonner
9 - Plot device strength (ie: so strong that the story determines the feat)
10 - Strength is an irrelevant factor

Again, to break down each character or each potential property would be a massive task, but ultimately I think it is a superior system. Most properties could be evaluated using the same 0-10 rubric (less than human -> too powerful for it to matter), and some "overall" score could be calculated, if you really wanted to. I just think something that is closer to this is better than the more generic levels...

/2 cents

if u were basing off str wouldnt you just take the strongest physical character there is list him as the top and go down from there? like hulk then the next guy down and so on and so forth?

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
if u were basing off str wouldnt you just take the strongest physical character there is list him as the top and go down from there? like hulk then the next guy down and so on and so forth?

the problem is, for people like Hulk or Thor, their strength really isn't a defined value, but serves generally as a McGuffin to overcome whatever needs to be "strength-ed" in the story.

Because of this, there is never going to be any type of agreement about who is strongest. Add in the higher echelon of cosmic/abstract characters and it becomes almost impossible. I mean, going by feats, is there anything the Hulk has done that you don't think could be reproduced by Galactus or an abstract level character? Well then, how do you say whether Galactus or some Celestial is physically stronger? What relevance does that measure even have for those characters?

Originally posted by zopzop
LoM, going by your criteria, Odin is an abstract being.

You miss my point; I would completely do away with all feats past and present...

I would redo ALL comics with my current criteria...

So Odin would only be capable of performing feats on par with what I listed in the OP (Odin would be a High Skyfather, and as such, would only be capable of busting a Neptune sized object or manipulating an equal amount of matter/energy)...

Originally posted by carver9
LOM...are we basing this off of recent portrayals or the character entire history?

I'd do away with all history on all characters and start them over...

The feats they'd manage would go according to what tier they fall in...

Hulk would rate as a Mid to High Herald if it were up to me and would be capable of dusting Deimos to Phobos sized objects at his peak...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You miss my point; I would completely do away with all feats past and present...

I would redo ALL comics with my current criteria...

So Odin would only be capable of performing feats on par with what I listed in the OP (Odin would be a High Skyfather, and as such, would only be capable of busting a Neptune sized object or manipulating an equal amount of matter/energy)...
Ooooh.

Dude, then I agree with you.

In fact, I would go you one better. No God would be able to affect an area larger than where his worshipers have spread. How does it make sense for Odin (or any other skyfather) to be able to bust a planet if there are 11 or so other Skyfathers around with a larger worshiper base spread out over more of the planet (*cough* Vishnu *cough*) ?

Oh and before you think I'm crazy, there was a time when Marvel saw it my way too :
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1604/thorannual0539q.th.jpg

op's parameters are far too low and would inflate power level descriptions: metas would be pushing herald and heralds would be pushing skyfather.

the tier thread we already have is adequate for the most part

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I'd do away with all history on all characters and start them over...

The feats they'd manage would go according to what tier they fall in...

Hulk would rate as a Mid to High Herald if it were up to me and would be capable of dusting Deimos to Phobos sized objects at his peak... oh so this is just your fantasy of how things should be?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I'd do away with all history on all characters and start them over...

The feats they'd manage would go according to what tier they fall in...

Hulk would rate as a Mid to High Herald if it were up to me and would be capable of dusting Deimos to Phobos sized objects at his peak...

Ok...so overall, in order for the characters to be ranked in a tier, they would need the fts replicating what you've described in your title? Also, when does the time period begin? Year 2000? 1990? Where do we start.? Some characters would be bumped down a bit. Wouldnt be as many high to mid Heralds and some of the trans characters would be dropped as well looking at their recent portrayals.

Originally posted by Oliver North
0 - No strength, character is intangible and can't physically affect the world
1 - less than basic human, child, elderly
2 - Basic human
3 - Enhanced Human
daredevil doesn't have basic human strength, he's olympic level. basic human strength is like random AIM scientist #467

This tier is more complicated than that.

You have to set a base for it.

So you have Human Tier

Below Adult Human: Aunt May, Quanchi (lol busting level capability)
Normal Adult Human: Jarvis, Alfred (lip busting level capability)
Athlete Adult Human: Flash Thompson (face, bone busting level capability)
Peak Adult Human: Batman (killer capability)

From there you build up, and yes I am suggesting Quanchi to be pilar of this tier.

I'm all for scaling things down, eg, herald level should not be able to survive black holes, and street levelers can't dodge bullets.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
daredevil doesn't have basic human strength, he's olympic level. basic human strength is like random AIM scientist #467

fair enough

I'd even say 10 levels isn't enough, it was more just to demonstrate what I was saying than to give any hard and fast levels to anything.

Hell, you could even break it into level 2 - human A), B), C), D) E), etc, where necessary.

Manliness Tier

Female: Not a man at all (Black Widow, Thor, Carver, Scarlett Witch)

Beta Male: Male that avoids other male genitalia (Most men are in this category)

Alpha Male: On a constant mission seeking out male genitalia to "size" up competition (Only Bruce is in this category)

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I once touched upon this topic with Rage and zopzop and I think its something worth discussing in detail...

In comics (both in Marvel and DC) you have characters performing feats that are far beyond what they really should be accomplishing (IMHO of course)...as a result, I fully believe dam near every aspect of both DC and Marvel comics needs to be retconned.

Now assumming that it was up to you, how would you rebalance everything so that there is atleast some logic and consistency in the type of feats various characters are able to perform?

I'll go 1st to give an example of what I am asking for:


Street Level
Low: Can beat up the weak and the Elderly...or a normal person that is physically impared in some way; may be grossly out of shape and slow for example.
Mid: Can beat up common crooks/thugs.
High: Can beat up a very skilled and physically powerful opponent...Brock Lesnar for example.

Enhanced
Low: Can defeat scores of normal humans without much effort.
Mid: Can go crazy and wreck vehicles and small buildings one after another.
High: Can wreck large buildings and devastate city blocks.

Herald
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Deimos (12km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Phobos (22km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Saturn Moon Siarnaq (32km diameter).

Trans
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Saturn Moon Dione (1120km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Neptune Moon Triton (2706km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Jupiter Moon Io (3636km diameter).

Skyfather
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a small planet; Mars (6800km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a medium sized planet; Earth (12756km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a large planet; Neptune (49500km diameter).

Elder God
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a gas giant; Saturn (120536km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a small star; Red Dwarf (210000km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with an average star; Our Sun (1390000km diameter).

Cube Being
Low: Can reality warp several solar systems at will.
Mid: Can reality warp dozens of solar systems at will.
High: Can reality warp a small pocket dimension at will.

Abstract/High Powered Cosmic
Low: Can bust a Galaxy.
Mid: Can bust a Galactic Cluster.
High: Can bust a Super Cluster.

God Tier
Low: Can wreck havok on a universal scale at will.
Mid: Can destroy a universe, but not all at once.
High: Can 1 shot an entire universe.


Dam that took alot of time (prays this doesnt get locked; I put alot of effort into this)....

Anyway, again, how would you all rebalance the comic book tiers/power levels if it were up to you? I agree with this 100%. Good job. I would say that average portrayals though. For example, a character is in x tier if they can under average portrayals do y things. 1 more thing, a skyfather has to be immune to all bfr tactics (can get back from any dimension or location in space). A herald has to be immune to space bfr tactics (get back from anywhere in space).

Originally posted by 753
op's parameters are far too low and would inflate power level descriptions: metas would be pushing herald and heralds would be pushing skyfather.

the tier thread we already have is adequate for the most part You're equating the name of the rank with power level. OP is more concerned with more defined limits and reclassification of heroes more than a simple renaming of the tier system. Like Captain America being considered a peak human.... no way in hell does he fall into high street-low/mid meta tier like some place him in. He's delivered hulk staggering blows with his bare hands and feet. He outpaces cars and has recovered from a bullet to the brainpan in a matter of hours. OP just wants to redefine where he belongs and give clear criteria to tiers rather than the roundabouts system that we have.

to be quite honest I would take it a step further and create sub-classifications to include things like energy manips intelligence etc etc.

edit: at least that's what I'm getting from this.

Thanx for the responses peeps! Now to respond to some of your replies...

Originally posted by -Pr-
Pretty much, yep.

==

So is this thread designed as a new tier listing?

Not really a "new" tierings list, just a coherent idea of how to define character power levels and also set limits (a parameter) of what a character in a particular tier should be capable of doing...

It avoids ridiculousness like Thor absorbing and redirecting a blast capable of destroying 1/5th of the universe for example; Thor (and other characters in his tier) would have definitive limits on what they could do and any writer could work within those confines while maintaining suspension of disbelief...

Originally posted by Oliver North
I've always found tiers to be somewhat problematic. It seems like characters that have one very specific ability at a trans level often get equated with characters that have a vast array of abilities simply because that one skill. For instance, Man-Thing is far too durable/has too good of regeneration to put him in the Enhanced category, but lacks any other real powers to make him a herald. I think Hulk is also an issue (and, in fact, looking at the divisions above, it is ranked almost entirely in terms of destructive potential, meaning someone like Cyclops would be ranked far too high ).

It is probably way too much effort, but I've always thought breaking it down into a numeric system for different properties. So, like, for strength you might have:

0 - No strength, character is intangible and can't physically affect the world
1 - less than basic human, child, elderly
2 - Basic human
3 - Enhanced Human
4 - something between 2-100 tons
5 - something between 2-100 tons
6 - something between 2-100 tons
7 - something between 2-100 tons
8 - ~100 tonner
9 - Plot device strength (ie: so strong that the story determines the feat)
10 - Strength is an irrelevant factor

Again, to break down each character or each potential property would be a massive task, but ultimately I think it is a superior system. Most properties could be evaluated using the same 0-10 rubric (less than human -> too powerful for it to matter), and some "overall" score could be calculated, if you really wanted to. I just think something that is closer to this is better than the more generic levels...

/2 cents



I completely agree with you and yes, your system would be much more accurate than mines...

Mines are simply guidelines to give each tier more meaning, make things more organized, and set general limits on how a powerful a character in a given tier should (or rather would) be...

Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
if u were basing off str wouldnt you just take the strongest physical character there is list him as the top and go down from there? like hulk then the next guy down and so on and so forth?

I am thinking it wouldnt go off of just strength, but more of an combo of a characters total abilities...

Originally posted by zopzop
Ooooh.

Dude, then I agree with you.

In fact, I would go you one better. No God would be able to affect an area larger than where his worshipers have spread. How does it make sense for Odin (or any other skyfather) to be able to bust a planet if there are 11 or so other Skyfathers around with a larger worshiper base spread out over more of the planet (*cough* Vishnu *cough*) ?

Oh and before you think I'm crazy, there was a time when Marvel saw it my way too :
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1604/thorannual0539q.th.jpg

You make an excellent point pertaining to Skyfathers zopzop...

Too bad that scan wasnt put into action by the writers in Marvel; things might be much different today if they had...

There's character we currently have in this category who can do a heck of a lot more.




In almost all cases, if a character can do one of these, they can do all of these.





In almost all cases, if a character can do one of these, they can do all of these.




There are heralds that can planet bust. Heck, many heralds have.
---


The problem is you've made benchmarks that sound fitting to you, but absolutely do not map onto the power tiers as they exist in comics.

Originally posted by carver9
Ok...so overall, in order for the characters to be ranked in a tier, they would need the fts replicating what you've described in your title? Also, when does the time period begin? Year 2000? 1990? Where do we start.? Some characters would be bumped down a bit. Wouldnt be as many high to mid Heralds and some of the trans characters would be dropped as well looking at their recent portrayals.

I am not suggesting that we take current portrayals of characters and apply my tiers to them...

I am simply saying that if it were up to me, I wouldnt give the writers the free reign to write characters however they chose to write them; there would be parameters and guildelines in place for all the characters (the OP is an example of the structure they'd have)...

I believe the guidelines in the OP would make the task of gauging character power and defining where they belong easier than the system we currently have...

I wouldn't revamp the tiers at all. Just change how specific characters fit in.

The very nature of comics is fluid. And that's without considering multiple takes and opinions on the same character. At best, we could hope for more consistency.

Originally posted by Mindship
I'm all for scaling things down, eg, herald level should not be able to survive black holes, and street levelers can't dodge bullets.



I 100% agree with this...

Originally posted by h1a8
I agree with this 100%. Good job. I would say that average portrayals though. For example, a character is in x tier if they can under average portrayals do y things. 1 more thing, a skyfather has to be immune to all bfr tactics (can get back from any dimension or location in space). A herald has to be immune to space bfr tactics (get back from anywhere in space).

Thank you! And I can agree with this...

Originally posted by Uriel005
You're equating the name of the rank with power level. OP is more concerned with more defined limits and reclassification of heroes more than a simple renaming of the tier system. Like Captain America being considered a peak human.... no way in hell does he fall into high street-low/mid meta tier like some place him in. He's delivered hulk staggering blows with his bare hands and feet. He outpaces cars and has recovered from a bullet to the brainpan in a matter of hours. OP just wants to redefine where he belongs and give clear criteria to tiers rather than the roundabouts system that we have.

to be quite honest I would take it a step further and create sub-classifications to include things like energy manips intelligence etc etc.

edit: at least that's what I'm getting from this.

I couldnt have worded this better myself...

Good stuff!

I think not even that covers it.

After all, almost any active non-powered hero can beat up a dozen athletic humans, and then still get their rears handed to them by Batman.

I'd say you'd have athletic human, then low street level hero human (i.e. the types who a dozen thugs is a serious worry. Like, say, Stephanie Brown as Spoiler, Rorschach, yadda yadda),
high street level heroic human (heroes who are badass and well trained, but a step down. Experienced Robins, Vigilante, a good chunk of Batman Inc.),
and then peak street level heroic human (your actual Batman types)

Originally posted by Q99
There's character we currently have in this category who can do a heck of a lot more.




In almost all cases, if a character can do one of these, they can do all of these.





In almost all cases, if a character can do one of these, they can do all of these.




There are heralds that can planet bust. Heck, many heralds have.
---


The problem is you've made benchmarks that sound fitting to you, but absolutely do not map onto the power tiers as they exist in comics.

Re-read the OP; I do not wish to map my idea on how characters currently rank (in view of current feats)...

I'd throw everything away as pertains all characters and start over; this time with greater organization and guidelines in place...there would be no Herald level characters (like Superman for example) going around sneezing solar systems away or moving Earth sized objects (or even objects the size of our Moon) with his bare hands.

Things definitely need to be scaled down (IMHO of course) to avoid the absolute ridiculous feats some of these characters have...

The OP is just an example of how one might rank the characters and at the same time provide parameters on just what you can expect from a given character performance wise...

Still, even if one re-vamps for consistency, I think one should pay attention at least some to what they currently represent in comics.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I wouldn't revamp the tiers at all. Just change how specific characters fit in.

The very nature of comics is fluid. And that's without considering multiple takes and opinions on the same character. At best, we could hope for more consistency.

No doubt, comics are fluid and characters can out perform/under perform relative to characters in their same tier...

However, if it were up to me, it would make more sense; Thor wouldnt be tanking Celestial attacks without a really good explanation as to why (he'd also have to possess a super-duper amp to boot)...

A character with the ability to bust a planet that fails to to KO a Herald would similarly be explained; it wouldnt "just happen" like it currently does...

So with my system, things would remain fluid, it would just have to be explained "why" certain characters are performing above or below their stations...

Originally posted by Q99
Still, even if one re-vamps for consistency, I think one should pay attention at least some to what they currently represent in comics.

No question...

What a given character represents should be considered, but still scaled down...

For example, in current comics a Phobos sized object is nothing...a meta might be able to bust it...but in reality that Phobos sized object is a monster fully capable of eliminating all life on the surface of the Earth and has has the mass of a mountain range (it weighs billions and billions of tons).

Busting it would be a monumental feat; especially from the eyes of a meta (in the OP), such a feat would appear God-like...

But in current comics, things are so inflated that busting this object would be ho-hum for a great many characters...

This would (and should IMHO) definitely change...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Not really a "new" tierings list, just a coherent idea of how to define character power levels and also set limits (a parameter) of what a character in a particular tier should be capable of doing...

It avoids ridiculousness like Thor absorbing and redirecting a blast capable of destroying 1/5th of the universe for example; Thor (and other characters in his tier) would have definitive limits on what they could do and any writer could work within those confines while maintaining suspension of disbelief...

Yeah, I see that now.

Not really my thing, tbh. I like that heralds have crazy feats most of the time. No offence.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I once touched upon this topic with Rage and zopzop and I think its something worth discussing in detail...

In comics (both in Marvel and DC) you have characters performing feats that are far beyond what they really should be accomplishing (IMHO of course)...as a result, I fully believe dam near every aspect of both DC and Marvel comics needs to be retconned.

Now assumming that it was up to you, how would you rebalance everything so that there is atleast some logic and consistency in the type of feats various characters are able to perform?

I'll go 1st to give an example of what I am asking for:


Street Level
Low: Can beat up the weak and the Elderly...or a normal person that is physically impared in some way; may be grossly out of shape and slow for example.
Mid: Can beat up common crooks/thugs.
High: Can beat up a very skilled and physically powerful opponent...Brock Lesnar for example.

Enhanced
Low: Can defeat scores of normal humans without much effort.
Mid: Can go crazy and wreck vehicles and small buildings one after another.
High: Can wreck large buildings and devastate city blocks.

Herald
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Deimos (12km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Phobos (22km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Saturn Moon Siarnaq (32km diameter).

Trans
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Saturn Moon Dione (1120km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Neptune Moon Triton (2706km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Jupiter Moon Io (3636km diameter).

Skyfather
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a small planet; Mars (6800km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a medium sized planet; Earth (12756km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a large planet; Neptune (49500km diameter).

Elder God
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a gas giant; Saturn (120536km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a small star; Red Dwarf (210000km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with an average star; Our Sun (1390000km diameter).

Cube Being
Low: Can reality warp several solar systems at will.
Mid: Can reality warp dozens of solar systems at will.
High: Can reality warp a small pocket dimension at will.

Abstract/High Powered Cosmic
Low: Can bust a Galaxy.
Mid: Can bust a Galactic Cluster.
High: Can bust a Super Cluster.

God Tier
Low: Can wreck havok on a universal scale at will.
Mid: Can destroy a universe, but not all at once.
High: Can 1 shot an entire universe.

Quan Tier
Always high: Can kill everything and can't be killed

Hulk Tier
The highest there is: Just insane!


FIXED

I love making charts and scales regarding characters' powers and abilities, so I can relate to your objective. But consider the following, eg...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Herald
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Deimos (12km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Phobos (22km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Saturn Moon Siarnaq (32km diameter).

I have to know which moon means what, and how big it is? I think things would be simpler if you set a standard for each tier, Eg, from the above: Low Herald can still mean a Deimosbuster, and this would be a unit of *1*. Mid Herald, then, could simply be *2* (or 3, etc). Also, because this is a relative scale to some degree, it gives leeway for characters' outlier feats.

On the other hand, going in the opposite direction, energy/matter manip can get really complicated. Are you saying Low, Mid and High Herald can all do the same thing to the same degree? Eg, all can rearrange molecules And transmute elements on a moon-size scale?

I don't mean to nitpick; I'm playing Devil's Advocate more than anything. But based on my own experience with setting up tiers and stuff (and as you alluded with your own efforts), this can be quite the undertaking. Things could get simplified with separate scales for each ability (strength, durability, e/m manip), but then one starts venturing into territory the comics have already handled in a simpler fashion.

I dunno. It's fun to play with this stuff, but it ain't easy.

Here is my two cents, I also think on affected areas when I try to measure characters

Human: Defined as a regular Human, just like US.

Low: Out of shape, or physically or mentally impaired
Middle: Normal People
High: Fit to Athlete level

Street level: defined as any human on costume with at least certain proficiency on a field be that fighting, camouflage, fire arms, armed combat very important, this is though TRAINING, NO META GENES, OR MUTANT GENES on action

low: Robin
middle: Nightwing
high: Batman

Meta human/mutant: any human with at least an extra gene that gives him an ability, be that bending spoons, shape shifting or an extraordinary ability, but this is due to some genetically difference from a human, it does not necessarily means that a low meta can defeat a high street level. The Level of area affected by power display also will raise the character on the tier.

Low: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a small area from a house to a building
Mid: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover mid range area from building to several blocks
High: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a large area from several blocks to a city

Super Human/Herald. Majority of the genes differ from humans, be that due to gaining powers though freak accident or embed with them. The Level of area affected by power display also will raise the character on the tier.

Low: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a small area from a city to a country
Mid : at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a mid range area from a country to a continent
High :at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a large area from a continent to a planet

Super human/Herald Team Wrecker: an individual capable of fighting a team or a group of meta humans or super humans

Low : capable of fight a team composed of meta humans
Mid: capable of fight a team composed of meta humans and heralds
High :capable of fight a team composed of heralds/super humans

Trans the highest tier onto characters who still abide to SOME rules of logic.

Low: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover more than one planet to 4 planets
Mid: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover more than 4 planets
High: at least 1 ability capable to destroy/affect/cover a solar system

Skyfather At least 1 ability that defies the laws of logic or capable of destroy/affect/cover several planes of reality up to a galaxy, still bounded by decrees of Abstract entities

Low
Mid
High

Elder Defies laws of logic still bounded by decrees of Abstract entities, Capable of defeating Skyfathers

Low
Mid
High

Cube at least 1 ability capable of destroy/affect/cover a large are of the universe to one universe at a time, NOT capable of overturn Abstract entities decrees

Low
Mid
High

Abstract

Low
Mid
High

Universal at least 1 ability capable of destroy/affect/cover one universe at a time, capable of overturn Abstract entities decrees

Low
Mid
High

Multiversal at least 1 ability capable of destroy/affect/cover several universes capable of overturn Abstract entities decrees

Low
Mid
High

Omniversal at least 1 ability capable of destroy/affect/cover everything capable of overturn Abstract entities decrees

I fixed this a little bit


Correction

I meant

1 OR MORE ABILITIES where this fits

EJ:

Meta human/mutant: any human with at least an extra gene that gives him an ability, be that bending spoons, shape shifting or an extraordinary ability, but this is due to some genetically difference from a human, it does not necessarily means that a low meta can defeat a high street level. The Level of area affected by power display also will raise the character on the tier.

Low: at least 1 OR MORE ABILITIES capable to destroy/affect/cover a small area from a house to a building
Mid: at least 1 OR MORE ABILITIES capable to destroy/affect/cover mid range area from building to several blocks
High: at least 1 OR MORE ABILITIES capable to destroy/affect/cover a large area from several blocks to a city

it wouldnt work due to dynamic powersets

Yes, I don't think anything will be 100% accurate. And I will be Quan if I think I'm flawless.

But dynamic power sets can be explained by holding back and not holding back.

For example I can see a regular Surfer being a High herald at normal levels, but not holding back I can see him going up to the team wrecker tier.

The issue with most if not all tier systems I've seen is that they tend to look only at destructive power or (on lower levels) fighting ability to gauge placement. You end up with tiering systems that aren't very useful, because characters like Batman and to a greater extent Reed Richards punch out of their weight classes.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder



Street Level
Low: Can beat up the weak and the Elderly...or a normal person that is physically impared in some way; may be grossly out of shape and slow for example.
Mid: Can beat up common crooks/thugs.
High: Can beat up a very skilled and physically powerful opponent...Brock Lesnar for example.

Enhanced
Low: Can defeat scores of normal humans without much effort.
Mid: Can go crazy and wreck vehicles and small buildings one after another.
High: Can wreck large buildings and devastate city blocks.

I think normal people don't even register as "street level" in ordinary forum parlance. I would argue that "Brock Lesnar" would be the bottom of the barrel of comic book hero ability, the kind of "good fighter, physically fit, nothing special by comic standards" character, maybe a friend of a hero who gets training because he/she gets kidnapped all the time.

As for "enhanced", I'm concerned that lots of characters qualify for Low Enhanced who aren't all on the same level. Someone like Green Arrow for instance could probably beat up hordes of normal guys without much trouble, but so could lots of stronger, more skilled characters who don't qualify for Mid or High.

http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Destructive+Capacity

I found this more interesting than useful.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The issue with most if not all tier systems I've seen is that they tend to look only at destructive power... I've always looked at two things to gauge "how powerful" a character is -
- How much can he/she destroy with a single blow?
- How much would it take to destroy this character with a single blow?

I've also tended to focus on Strength, Durability and Speed, breaking down energy/matter manip separately (and in here, mentioning how much so-n-so could destroy).

Originally posted by Omega Vision

I think normal people don't even register as "street level" in ordinary forum parlance. I would argue that "Brock Lesnar" would be the bottom of the barrel of comic book hero ability, the kind of "good fighter, physically fit, nothing special by comic standards" character, maybe a friend of a hero who gets training because he/she gets kidnapped all the time.

Yea.

Brock Lesnar couldn't hope to pull off much of the stuff kid sidekicks do.

wyatt wingfoot was a "brock lesnar" type guy that was associated with the FF and she-hulk among others

I agree with this completely it's one of the reasons comics have so many WTF moments. Many of which are never explained some characters and writers need to be reigned in regarding what character A,B, or C can do by giving limits IMHO it will force writers to be more creative. Because at a certain point writers start to pull powers and abilities out of their asses just to tell there story.

Originally posted by Mindship
I love making charts and scales regarding characters' powers and abilities, so I can relate to your objective. But consider the following, eg...



I have to know which moon means what, and how big it is? I think things would be simpler if you set a standard for each tier, Eg, from the above: Low Herald can still mean a Deimosbuster, and this would be a unit of *1*. Mid Herald, then, could simply be *2* (or 3, etc). Also, because this is a relative scale to some degree, it gives leeway for characters' outlier feats.

On the other hand, going in the opposite direction, energy/matter manip can get really complicated. Are you saying Low, Mid and High Herald can all do the same thing to the same degree? Eg, all can rearrange molecules And transmute elements on a moon-size scale?

I don't mean to nitpick; I'm playing Devil's Advocate more than anything. But based on my own experience with setting up tiers and stuff (and as you alluded with your own efforts), this can be quite the undertaking. Things could get simplified with separate scales for each ability (strength, durability, e/m manip), but then one starts venturing into territory the comics have already handled in a simpler fashion.

I dunno. It's fun to play with this stuff, but it ain't easy.

Next to each moon I have its diameter listed; while diameter isnt the be-all concerning mass, it just gives a rough frame of reference where each object is bigger and more massive than the one before it...for example:

Deimos has the mass of a mountain...

Phobos has the mass of a mountain range (it would about the size of the mountain range Molecule Man dropped on the heroes in the original Secret War)...

And so on and so on...


So a Low Herald would be able to "do" things on the scale of Deimos; it could be by object busting, or overall matter/enegy manip, or something similar in scale...

Now when it comes to characters with mind control powers or something not standard, its more of a judgement call when trying to put in terms of "approximate Deimos affecting ability" (for example, maybe a character with Mental Powers that ranks as a Low Herald could touch the minds of 100 people, while a Mental Powered Mid Herald could touch the minds of 1000 people...again, just for example).


The overall idea is to have a system in place where there are parameters defining each tier (and section of that tier); what I posted in the OP is just an example of a system I think writers should follow, but I have no doubt that better systems than mines are fully possible...

Originally posted by celestialbodies
I agree with this completely it's one of the reasons comics have so many WTF moments. Many of which are never explained some characters and writers need to be reigned in regarding what character A,B, or C can do by giving limits IMHO it will force writers to be more creative. Because at a certain point writers start to pull powers and abilities out of their asses just to tell there story.