KMC Comic Book Tiers Thread - Vote Now!

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-Pr-
KMC Comic Book Tiers

Okay, so, much like the original thread here, this is a new version that we're opening for the people on the VS forum. This thread should serve as a guideline to anyone that wants to make a match, and can't decide if character X is a match for character Y.

================

Rules:

================

This is a GENERAL power listing. We don't care how fast, how versatile or how strong your favourite character is; it's an averaging out of power.
This list DOESN'T account for PIS or prep, but can for CIS/CIP.
Different versions of characters, if required, will be specified in brackets.


Now, for anyone that doesn't know what these terms mean, here's a quick explanation (credit to Digi):

- Trans - Tier was created to represent anything above Surfer (who is generally considered the top of high herald) and below Skyfather. It is the only tier that is defined on either extreme by actual characters.
- Street - Generally refers to characters without powers, but not without exceptions. A skilled martial artist would likely be street. A skilled martial artist who can amp himself to metahuman levels would not. It is possible to be without a "power" and be above street (for an example: Karate Kid).

Meta and Herald are pretty self-explanatory.

Making changes: This list is NOT perfect (and is a little out-dated). People are going to disagree. To that end, people will be allowed to recommend that certain characters be moved up and down. With enough support, or mod approval, characters can be moved. All final changes to the list must be approved by mods, so no trolling votes will be accepted.

Okay, without further ado:

================

The List:

================

Tier 4 - Trans. Tier (Sub-Skyfather)

Amazo, Appolyon, The Asgardian Destroyer, Black Racer, Blackheart, Blaze, Count Abyss, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Doomsday (H/P), Dr. Fate, Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), Jenny Quantum, The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Queen of Fables, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Solusandra, Stayne, Strange Visitor, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus

Tier 3 - Herald

High
Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Cyborg Superman, Dr. Strange (classic), Doomsday (Gog Wars), The Eradicator (Fortress Mode), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), Quasar, Qztr, Silver Surfer, Sinestro, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman, Swamp Thing, Talisman, Thor, Zoom II (Hunter Solomon)

Middle
Adam Warlock, Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Bizarro Superman, Black Adam, Black Bolt, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Circe, Cpt. Comet, Captain Marvel (DC), Count Nefaria, Damien Hellstrom, Etrigan, Evinlea, The Fallen One, Firelord, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), The General (Shaggy Man), General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John, Katma, Kilowog), Hulk, Hyperion, Ikaris, Imperiex Probes, Juggernaut (Classic), Kid Omega, Kurse, Lobo, Loki, Magus (Post-IG), Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Metamorpho, Mon-El, Morg, Nate Grey, Orion, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, Sersi, Shaman, Skreet, Solomon Grundy, Supergirl, Supreme, Terrax the Tamer, Void (Wildstorm, no Creation Engine power), Waverider, Wildfire, Witchfire (Demon Form), Wonder Woman

Low
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Aquaman (DCNU), Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death's Head 3.0, Death Metal, Doomsday (DOS), Doctor Doom, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Light II (Kimiyo Hoshi), Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Enchantress, Engineer, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Forerunner, Gammid, Gilgamesh, Gold Key Solar, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), Guardian I (James Hudson), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Hercules (Immortal), Iceman, Invincible, Iron Man, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Kalibak, Kang, Krypto, Lightray, Living Monolith, Loki (Ultimate), Lunatik, Madison Jeffries (BOX IV), Magneto (U), Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Marrina (Leviathan), Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nimrod, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Plastic Man, Power Girl, Prime, Professor X, Raven, Ravenous, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Snowbird, Starhawk, Starman, Super Skrull, Stryfe, Superboy, Tempest, Thor (Ultimate), Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Wendigo, Winter, Witchfire (Normal), Zauriel

Tier 2 - Meta

High
Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Batman 1 Million, Battalion (Jackson King), Blastaar, BOX I (Roger Bochs), Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Crystal, Death's Head II, Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Gamora, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian II (Heather Hudson), Havok, Hellstrike, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Jenny Sparks, Juggernaut (Depowered), Karate Kid, Living Laser, Machine Man, Manbot, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Mercer Drake, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nico Minoru, Nightshade, Northstar, Ocean Master, Osiris, Pitt, Polaris, Psylocke, Radioactive Man, Sand, Sasquatch, Shassa, She-Hulk, Spiral, Starfire, Storm, Supernova, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Vision, War Machine, Windshear, Wonder Man, Zzaxx

Middle
Adam Strange, Aegis, Atom Smasher, Attuma, Balder, Beast Boy, Bishop, Blink, Blob, Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes), Blue Devil, Bombshell, Booster Gold, Carnage, Cloak, Corrin, Cyborg, Cyclops, Darkhawk, Death's Head, Death Wreck, Dust, Electro, Elijah Snow, Farenheit, Flint, Fuji, Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze), Ghost Rider(Dan Ketch), Gorgon, Grace Choi, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Hellion, Jubilee, Karolina Dean, Kymaera/Namorita, Lightning Lad, Matua, M.O.D.O.K., Molly Hayes, Moonstone, Morlun, Ms. Marvel, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Ogun, Omega Red, Quicksilver (classic), Ragman, Rogue, Rom, Sebastian Shaw, Shadowcat, Shift, Speedball, Steel, Terra, Thunder, Tiger Shark, Toxin, Vance Astro, Vengeance, Venom, Victor Mancha, Warlock (Technarchy/Phalanx), Wonder Girl, Yellowjacket (Hank Pym)

Low
3-D Man, Ambrose Chase, Angel, Arachne, Arana, Azrael, Beast, Black Canary, Black Tarantula, Blade, Blue Beetle (Dan Garrett), Bruenor Battlehammer, Century, Charcoal, Charlie 27, Constrictor, Creeper, Cyber, Dagger, Deadpool, Deathlok, Deathstroke the Terminator, Doc Ock, Drizzt Do'Urden, Elixer, Falcon, Firehawk, Gambit, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Iron Fist, Jakita Wagner, Karnak, Kid Devil, Killer Croc, Klaw, Lady Deathstrike, Longshot, Luke Cage, Man-Bat, Marrina (Normal), Mercury, Midnighter, Mister Hyde, Multiple Man, Mysterio, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nuke, Orka Humbug, Prometheus, Protocide, Puck, Puma, Rage, Sabretooth, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Swift, Thunder Cats, Tombstone, Triathalon, Vance Astro, Vanguard, Vermin, Vulture, Warpath, Wildchild, Wizard, Wolverine, Wulfgar, X-23

Tier 1 - Street

High
Bane, Batgirl, Batman, Black Panther, Blacklash, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, Captain America, The Cat, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Hush, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Ravager, Red Skull, Richard Dragon, Rose Tattoo, Taskmaster, Union Jack, Nightwing, Red Hood

Middle
Arsenal/Red Arrow, Baron Zemo, Black Cat, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Crossbones, Deadshot, Echo, Grifter, Joker, Mach IV, Misty Knight, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Nomad, Peacemaker, Punisher, Ra's Al Ghul, Turok, Wildcat, Robin

Low
Alfred, Batroc, Black Widow, Catwoman, Christine Trelane, Colleen Wing, Night Thrasher, Obregon Kaine, Penguin, The Question, Riddler, Talia, White Tiger


Note: For the time being, all DC characters listed are pre-reboot versions. Distinctions will be made as the thread is edited.

JakeTheBank
Off the top of my head, I'd vote for Classic Doctor Strange being bumped down to High Herald.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Off the top of my head, I'd vote for Classic Doctor Strange being bumped down to High Herald.

Okay, so Doctor Strange to High Herald.

For: 1 (Jake)
Against: 0

Good start dude thumb up

JakeTheBank
I would also bump King Thor up from Trans and/or replace him with Odin Force Thor.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I would also bump King Thor up from Trans and/or replace him with Odin Force Thor.

That raises another question: Should there be a Skyfather tier?

Raisen
Originally posted by -Pr-
That raises another question: Should there be a Skyfather tier?

There should be a skyfather tier and I would vote to keep strange where you currently have him

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
That raises another question: Should there be a Skyfather tier?

I personally think the lines between low/mid/high Skyfather are a bit murky to navigate. You could always do a catch-all Skyfather tier, but usually, there's not much debate or contention of what counts as a Skyfather per KMC tiering. Most people agree that Odin is the pinnacle of the tier, so really, anyone around that level but not above it should count, imo.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Raisen
There should be a skyfather tier and I would vote to keep strange where you currently have him

Ok, so that's:

Doctor Strange to High Herald.

For: 1 (Jake)
Against: 1 (Raisen)

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I personally think the lines between low/mid/high Skyfather are a bit murky to navigate. You could always do a catch-all Skyfather tier, but usually, there's not much debate or contention of what counts as a Skyfather per KMC tiering. Most people agree that Odin is the pinnacle of the tier, so really, anyone around that level but not above it should count, imo.

I was thinking about a solo tier, yeah. No high, mid or low.

Raisen
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I personally think the lines between low/mid/high Skyfather are a bit murky to navigate. You could always do a catch-all Skyfather tier, but usually, there's not much debate or contention of what counts as a Skyfather per KMC tiering. Most people agree that Odin is the pinnacle of the tier, so really, anyone around that level but not above it should count, imo.

Break Skyfather into two levels

PR. You got yourself into a sh1t storm

-Pr-
You think I didn't expect this after what happened in the last thread?

JakeTheBank
Also, is there any way for you or another mod to delete posts? Because this thread will run quite a few pages, probably over a single issue, and we all know they'll be some bickering and probably spamming along the way. I think keeping the thread clean would be a good idea after so many posts.

Unless you keep this open for about a month or two, lock the thread, and "update" every once in a while.

Raisen
Originally posted by -Pr-
You think I didn't expect this after what happened in the last thread?

I wasn't around for that one........

Break skyfather into two tiers: Elite and Standard. Elite would comprise Odin, Zeus and maybe a few others. I'm sure this could be agreed upon.

psycho gundam
it's "Doctor Doom", not "Dr. Doom". Not officially getting his doctorate is integral to his origin story.

JakeTheBank
I'm also voting that Ultron be bumped up to High Herald. Dude has taken on the Avengers more than once and has held his own, if not beaten, the likes of heavy hitters such as Thor or Sentry.

Raisen
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Also, is there any way for you or another mod to delete posts? Because this thread will run quite a few pages, probably over a single issue, and we all know they'll be some bickering and probably spamming along the way. I think keeping the thread clean would be a good idea after so many posts.

Unless you keep this open for about a month or two, lock the thread, and "update" every once in a while.
don't try to get rid of me

Raisen
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm also voting that Ultron be bumped up to High Herald. Dude has taken on the Avengers more than once and has held his own, if not beaten, the likes of heavy hitters such as Thor or Sentry.

agree

curryman
Originally posted by -Pr-
I was thinking about a solo tier, yeah. No high, mid or low.

I think that a Skyfather tier is a good idea smile

Originally posted by -Pr-
Doctor Strange to High Herald.

For: 1 (Jake)
Against: 1 (Raisen)


I also agree that we should take down classic Dr.Strange to High Herald.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm also voting that Ultron be bumped up to High Herald. Dude has taken on the Avengers more than once and has held his own, if not beaten, the likes of heavy hitters such as Thor or Sentry.

Ok, so the characters we have so far:

Doctor Strange to High Herald.

For: 1 (Jake)
Against: 1 (Raisen)

Ultron to High Herald.

For: 2 (Jake, Raisen)
Against: 0

Raisen
Originally posted by curryman
I think that a Skyfather tier is a good idea smile



I also agree that we should take down classic Dr.Strange to High Herald.

Why take Strange down? Dude has the most outrageous feats in Marvel

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Raisen
Why take Strange down? Dude has the most outrageous feats in Marvel

Most of them are prep feats or have lots of context to them and on the average, wouldn't make him significantly beyond the likes of Silver Surfer or Thor, both of whom have some equally insane feats under their belt.

curryman
Originally posted by Raisen
Why take Strange down? Dude has the most outrageous feats in Marvel

Because we're placing him after his immediate capabilities not preptime and such.

Otherwise placing Doom, Reed and Batman would be hell.

Oliver North
If Surfer is supposed to be the top of the high herald, Starhawk should be at least mid, I'd argue high though.

There are a number of people in the mid-meta tier that I think are for sure below Green Goblin, but a number who are clearly above, not sure what to say there, and I'm a total fanboy so take that into account.

I don't see Man-Thing, so, that is the literal end of my expertise.

-Pr-
Updated votes:

Doctor Strange to High Herald.

For: 2 (Jake, curryman)
Against: 1 (Raisen)

Ultron to High Herald.

For: 2 (Jake, Raisen)
Against: 0

JakeTheBank
As far as the Skyfather tier goes:

If we break it down into levels, we'd also have to break down the Trans tier down into levels as well. Which would undoubtedly cause more work and debating, but if that's what we're going for, by all means.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
As far as the Skyfather tier goes:

If we break it down into levels, we'd also have to break down the Trans tier down into levels as well. Which would undoubtedly cause more work and debating, but if that's what we're going for, by all means.

I know sweet **** all about most trans characters, so I'm not exactly thrilled about the idea of breaking it up.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
I know sweet **** all about most trans characters, so I'm not exactly thrilled about the idea of breaking it up.

It's a slippery slope, that's for sure.

Which is why if we do the Skyfather tier, it should either be one tier accounting for all the ranges of those characters like the Trans tier, or if it's broken into levels, we do the same for Skyfathers.

Really, if you're a Skyfather character, the gap between you and other Skyfathers is 9/10 times not going to be that great.

-Pr-
Agreed.

Badabing
Originally posted by -Pr-
KMC Comic Book Tiers

Okay, so, much like the original thread here, this is a new version that we're opening for the people on the VS forum. This thread should serve as a guideline to anyone that wants to make a match, and can't decide if character X is a match for character Y.

================

Rules:

================

This is a GENERAL power listing. We don't care how fast, how versatile or how strong your favourite character is; it's an averaging out of power.
This list DOESN'T account for PIS or prep, but can for CIS/CIP.
Different versions of characters, if required, will be specified in brackets.


Now, for anyone that doesn't know what these terms mean, here's a quick explanation (credit to Digi):

- Trans - Tier was created to represent anything above Surfer (who is generally considered the top of high herald) and below Skyfather. It is the only tier that is defined on either extreme by actual characters.
- Street - Generally refers to characters without powers, but not without exceptions. A skilled martial artist would likely be street. A skilled martial artist who can amp himself to metahuman levels would not. It is possible to be without a "power" and be above street (for an example: Karate Kid).

Meta and Herald are pretty self-explanatory.

Making changes: This list is NOT perfect (and is a little out-dated). People are going to disagree. To that end, people will be allowed to recommend that certain characters be moved up and down. With enough support, or mod approval, characters can be moved. All final changes to the list must be approved by mods, so no trolling votes will be accepted.

Okay, without further ado:

================

The List:

================

Tier 4 - Trans. Tier (Sub-Skyfather)

Amazo, Appolyon, The Asgardian Destroyer, Black Racer, Blackheart, Blaze, Circe, Count Abyss, Death Urge, Despero, The Doctor, Doomsday (H/P), Dr. Fate, Dr. Strange (classic), Eclipso, Elders of the Universe (minus Ego), Fernus, Gog, Gray Man, High Evolutionary, Ion (current), Jenny Quantum, The Keeper, King Thor, Magus (original), Mangog, Mongul I (Pre Crisis), Nightmare, Onimar Synn, Onslaught, Queen of Fables, Resurrection Man 1 Million, Sentinel (Alan Scott), Silver Age Kryptonians/Daxamites, Solusandra, Stayne, Strange Visitor, Sun Eater, Superboy Prime, Superman 1 Million, Takion, Thanos, Tyrant (powered down), Validus

Tier 3 - Herald

High
Adam Warlock, Baron Zemo (w/ Moonstones), Cyborg Superman, Doomsday (Gog Wars), The Eradicator (Fortress Mode), Genis-Vell, Green Lantern (Hal, Kyle, Alan), Infinity-Man, Majestic, Moonstone (w/ both stones), Quasar, Qztr, Silver Surfer, Sinestro, Spartan 3.0, Stardust, Superman, Swamp Thing, Talisman, Thor, Zoom II (Hunter Solomon)

Middle
Alexander Nero, Beta Ray Bill, Binary, Bizarro Superman, Black Adam, Black Bolt, Cable (Full Power), Captain Atom, Cpt. Comet, Captain Marvel (DC), Count Nefaria, Damien Hellstrom, Etrigan, Evinlea, The Fallen One, Firelord, Firestorm, The Flash II (Barry Allen), The Flash III (Wally West), The Flash IV (Bart Allen), The General (Shaggy Man), General Zod, Gladiator, Green Lantern (Guy, John, Katma, Kilowog), Hulk, Hyperion, Ikaris, Imperiex Probes, Juggernaut (Classic), Kid Omega, Kurse, Lobo, Loki, Magus (Post-IG), Martian Manhunter, Maxima, Metamorpho, Mon-El, Morg, Nate Grey, Orion, Rachel Summers (Phoenix II), Red Shift, Sersi, Shaman, Skreet, Solomon Grundy, Supergirl, Supreme, Terrax the Tamer, Void (Wildstorm, no Creation Engine power), Waverider, Wildfire, Witchfire (Demon Form), Wonder Woman

Low
Absorbing Man, Air Walker, Animal Man, Apocalypse, Apollo, Argent, The Atom, Aztek, Breach, Cassandra Nova, Cir-El, Damage, Darkness, Darwin, Death's Head 3.0, Death Metal, Doomsday (DOS), Doctor Doom, Dr. Invincible, Dr. Light, Dr. Light II (Kimiyo Hoshi), Dr. Polaris, Drax The Destroyer, Enchantress, Engineer, Exodus, Fin Fang Foom, The Flash I (Jay Garrick), Forerunner, Gammid, Gilgamesh, Gold Key Solar, Gorilla Grodd, Graviton, Green Lantern (Soranik Natu), Guardian I (James Hudson), He-Man, Hector Hammond, Hercules (Immortal), Iceman, Invincible, Isis, Jade, Jack Hawksmoor (in city), Jack of Hearts, Jericho, Kalibak, Kang, Krypto, Lightray, Living Monolith, Loki (Ultimate), Lunatik, Madison Jeffries (BOX IV), Magneto (U), Major Force, Makkari, Man-Beast, Manchester Black, Marrina (Leviathan), Mar-Vell, Matrix Supergirl, Meggan, Mongul, Monica Rambeau (Pulsar), Mr. M, Nimrod, Nova (Frankie Raye), Nova Richard Rider (current), Plastic Man, Power Girl, Prime, Professor X, Raven, Ravenous, The Ray, Red Tornado, Ronan the Accuser, Saturn Girl, Selene (External), Shadow King, Snowbird, Starhawk, Starman, Super Skrull, Stryfe, Superboy, Tempest, Thor (Ultimate), Ultra Boy, Ultra-Humanite, Ultron, Union, Vulcan, Wendigo, Winter, Witchfire (Normal), Zauriel

Tier 2 - Meta

High
Abomination, Aquaman, Ares (Marvel), Atlas, Aurora, Batman 1 Million, Battalion (Jackson King), Blastaar, BOX I (Roger Bochs), Captain Britain, Captain Marvel Jr, Colossus, Crystal, Death's Head II, Donna Troy, Emma Frost, Gamora, Ghost Rider II, Grim Reaper, Guardian II (Heather Hudson), Havok, Hellstrike, Hercules (Mortal), Holocaust, The Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Iron Man, Jean Grey (sans Phoenix), Jenny Sparks, Juggernaut (Depowered), Karate Kid, Living Laser, Machine Man, Manbot, Mandarin, Mary Marvel, Maul, Mercer Drake, Metallo, Mimic (Exiles), Miss Martian, Mr. Fantastic, Mr. Sinister, Namor the Sub-Mariner, Nico Minoru, Nightshade, Northstar, Ocean Master, Osiris, Pitt, Polaris, Psylocke, Radioactive Man, Sand, Sasquatch, Shassa, She-Hulk, Spiral, Starfire, Storm, Supernova, Temugin, The Thing, Thunderstrike, The Tick, Ulik, Ultimo, Vision, War Machine, Windshear, Wonder Man, Zzaxx

Middle
Adam Strange, Aegis, Atom Smasher, Attuma, Balder, Beast Boy, Bishop, Blink, Blob, Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes), Blue Devil, Bombshell, Booster Gold, Carnage, Cloak, Corrin, Cyborg, Cyclops, Darkhawk, Death's Head, Death Wreck, Dust, Electro, Elijah Snow, Farenheit, Flint, Fuji, Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze), Ghost Rider(Dan Ketch), Gorgon, Grace Choi, Hawkgirl, Hawkman, Hellion, Jubilee, Karolina Dean, Kymaera/Namorita, Lightning Lad, Matua, M.O.D.O.K., Molly Hayes, Moonstone, Morlun, Ms. Marvel, Nova Richard Rider (classic), Ogun, Omega Red, Quicksilver (classic), Ragman, Rogue, Rom, Sebastian Shaw, Shadowcat, Shift, Speedball, Steel, Terra, Thunder, Tiger Shark, Toxin, Vance Astro, Vengeance, Venom, Victor Mancha, Warlock (Technarchy/Phalanx), Wonder Girl, Yellowjacket (Hank Pym)

Low
3-D Man, Ambrose Chase, Angel, Arachne, Arana, Azrael, Beast, Black Canary, Black Tarantula, Blade, Blue Beetle (Dan Garrett), Bruenor Battlehammer, Century, Charcoal, Charlie 27, Constrictor, Creeper, Cyber, Dagger, Deadpool, Deathlok, Deathstroke the Terminator, Doc Ock, Drizzt Do'Urden, Elixer, Falcon, Firehawk, Gambit, Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Iron Fist, Jakita Wagner, Karnak, Kid Devil, Killer Croc, Klaw, Lady Deathstrike, Longshot, Luke Cage, Man-Bat, Marrina (Normal), Mercury, Midnighter, Mister Hyde, Multiple Man, Mysterio, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nuke, Orka Humbug, Prometheus, Protocide, Puck, Puma, Rage, Sabretooth, Shang Chi, Silver Samurai, Spider-Man, Spider-Woman, Swift, Thunder Cats, Tombstone, Triathalon, Vance Astro, Vanguard, Vermin, Vulture, Warpath, Wildchild, Wizard, Wulfgar, X-23

Tier 1 - Street

High
Bane, Batgirl, Batman, Black Panther, Blacklash, Bronze Tiger, Bullseye, The Cat, Constantine Drakon, Daredevil, Elektra, Green Arrow, Hawkeye, Hush, Kingpin, Lady Shiva, Ravager, Red Skull, Richard Dragon, Rose Tattoo, Taskmaster, Union Jack, Nightwing, Red Hood

Middle
Arsenal/Red Arrow, Baron Zemo, Black Cat, Blue Beetle (Ted Kord), Crossbones, Deadshot, Echo, Grifter, Joker, Mach IV, Misty Knight, Moon Knight, Nick Fury, Nomad, Peacemaker, Punisher, Ra's Al Ghul, Turok, Wildcat, Robin

Low
Alfred, Batroc, Black Widow, Catwoman, Christine Trelane, Colleen Wing, Night Thrasher, Obregon Kaine, Penguin, The Question, Riddler, Talia, White Tiger


Note: For the time being, all DC characters listed are pre-reboot versions. Distinctions will be made as the thread is edited. DCnU Aquaman is at least low herald imo.

WBH & WWH are high herald imo.

Sorcerer Supreme Dr. Strange is high herald imo.

Edit: I don't see Captain America or Wolverine. I think Cap as high street and Wolverine as low meta.

Maybe Superior Spidey needs moved up to mid mete?

JakeTheBank
I agree with Green Scar Hulk being High Herald. He's a "one trick pony" compared to a lot of the other High Heralds, but that one trick is reaaaally good.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Badabing
DCnU Aquaman is at least low herald imo.

WBH & WWH are high herald imo.

Sorcerer Supreme Dr. Strange is high herald imo.

Edit: I don't see Captain America or Wolverine. I think Cap has high street and Wolverine as low meta.

Maybe Superior Spidey needs moved up to mid mete?

I was actually gonna suggest Aquaman, but I honestly thought nobody would vote with me.

Updated votes:

Updated votes:

Doctor Strange to High Herald.

For: 3 (Jake, curryman, Badabing)
Against: 1 (Raisen)

Ultron to High Herald.

For: 2 (Jake, Raisen)
Against: 0

DCNU Aquaman to Low Herald.

For: 2 (-Pr-, Badabing)
Against: 0

WBH to High Herald.

For: 1 (Badabing)
Against: 0

WWH to High Herald.

For: 3 (Badabing, -Pr-, Jake)
Against: 0

Spider-Man to Mid Meta.

For: 1 (Badabing)
Against: 0

Another question for you guys: How high should a majority need to be to push the vote through?

curryman
Originally posted by Badabing
WBH & WWH are high herald imo.


Are they the same level tho?

Also, I agree with Aquaman to low herald.

-Pr-
Added cap and logan.

DCNU Aquaman to Low Herald.

For: 3 (-Pr-, Badabing, curryman)
Against: 0

JakeTheBank
I agree with DCnU Aquaman being low herald.

WBH/HotM Hulk should be Trans, imo.

-Pr-
DCNU Aquaman to Low Herald.

For: 4 (-Pr-, Badabing, curryman, Jake)
Against: 0

WBH to High Herald.

For: 1 (Badabing)
Against: 1 (Jake)

WBH to Trans.

For: 2 (Jake, -Pr-)
Against: 0

curryman
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I agree with DCnU Aquaman being low herald.

WBH/HotM Hulk should be Trans, imo.

I agree with WBH to Trans.

Disagree with WWH to High Herald.

Think he should be in mid.

-Pr-
I'll tally it up as the night goes on, then we'll see who has what.

Badabing
Originally posted by -Pr-
Another question for you guys: How high should a majority need to be to push the vote through? I think we need to take some votes in regard to who's casting them and consider the source. Originally posted by curryman
Disagree with WWH to High Herald.

Think he should be in mid. You must like living dangerously. sneer


durhulk

-Pr-
Originally posted by Badabing
I think we need to take some votes in regard to who's casting them and consider the source. You must like living dangerously. sneer


durhulk

Sounds good.

Damborgson
WBH should be put up to trans in my opinion

Aquaman is a low herald def

Strange to high herald

Naija boy
WBH should def be in trans looking at that list. Greenscar to high herald.

Raisen
Originally posted by Damborgson
WBH should be put up to trans in my opinion

Aquaman is a low herald def

Strange to high herald

Spidey to mid meta

eaebiakuya

abhilegend
Dr. Strange to high herald.

Adam Warlock to mid herald.

Infinity Man to trans tier.

Wally West to high herald.

Circe to mid herald.

WWH to high herald.

WBH to trans tier.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by abhilegend
Dr. Strange to high herald.

Adam Warlock to mid herald.

Infinity Man to trans tier.

Wally West to high herald.

Circe to mid herald.

I agree with all of these, ESPECIALLY Circe.

I, to this day, have no idea how or why people hold her in such high regard. Her biggest feat is basically her prepping and taking advantage of circumstances. If she was consistently Trans tier, she'd curbstomp the hell out of Wonder Woman, which obviously isn't the case.

Also, Warlock should be split between his various incarnations: Classic, Quantum Mage, and Magus

curryman
How many characters should be up for a move at a time?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Dr. Strange to high herald.

Adam Warlock to mid herald.

Infinity Man to trans tier.

Wally West to high herald.

Circe to mid herald.

I'll back West and Circe smile

Rao Kal El
While I can see why WBH could be placed on low trans.

I question if breaking a planet on one of your high end feats will bump you to the next tier a lot of heralds could being affected by it and open a pandoras box. Speially considering that on that arc he was not holding back and a lot of heralds not at their normal levels and not holding back can do the same.

I am undecided towards that and I will side with bada on it.

The rest I pretty much agree.

Trans should be divided into two or three

Skyfather too

And there should be a tier for magical users.

Blair Wind
I back the motion for Spiderman to Mid-Meta.

TheHulk
Lol love this thread.

WBH to Trans
WWH to High herald
Dr Strange to high herald
Aqua man to low herald
Spider man to mid meta

Badabing
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
More like mid street... and that's being generous... This is an example of the type of post we don't want here.


If you can't keep your bias out of the thread, don't post. Your vote will not count and you'll be excluded from this thread.

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Badabing
This is an example of the type of post we don't want here.


If you can't keep your bias out of the thread, don't post. Your vote will not count and you'll be excluded from this thread.

Okay.

Hammerhead (current) to low meta.

Oliver North
I'd agree with Spider-Man to mid-meta, but if he goes, Norman almost has to as well

Galan007
Iron Man needs to be in the herald class. Ranking him as a meta is insulting to his character, imo.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
While I can see why WBH could be placed on low trans.

I question if breaking a planet on one of your high end feats will bump you to the next tier a lot of heralds could being affected by it and open a pandoras box. Speially considering that on that arc he was not holding back and a lot of heralds not at their normal levels and not holding back can do the same.

I am undecided towards that and I will side with bada on it.

The rest I pretty much agree.

Trans should be divided into two or three

Skyfather too

And there should be a tier for magical users.

this


and Ghost rider to low Herald

StiltmanFTW
Batroc really should be higher, the guy fought IF to a stalemate (till Danny used his trademark technique) and got up immediately after taking a severe beating from Cap.

High or at least mid street.

TheGodKiller
I'd prefer Ultron to remain as he is. As far as Strange goes, I agree that he should be bumped down to high herald.

Edit: WBH definitely belongs in the trans tier imo.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Batroc really should be higher, the guy fought IF to a stalemate (till Danny used his trademark technique) and got up immediately after taking a severe beating from Cap.

High or at least mid street.


issue? I think he's underestimated though, mid stret is a good place for him since he's never serious

also drop hellstrom down from herald level, ive never seen him do anything

nimrod to high herald, ultron to trans

psycho gundam
the question that broke the original tier thread: "where's batman?"

StiltmanFTW
Originally posted by Sin I AM
issue? I think he's underestimated though, mid stret is a good place for him since he's never serious

also drop hellstrom down from herald level, ive never seen him do anything

nimrod to high herald, ultron to trans

IF fight (some links are broken):

1. http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8118/70562889.jpg
2. http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6030/55326483.jpg
3. http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2154/37059196.jpg
4. http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3870/86134133.jpg
5. http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/5457/86740049.jpg
6 http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5877/32128346.jpg
7. http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5475/74879699.jpg
8. http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8306/39309440.jpg
9. http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1010/75045734.jpg
10. http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5428/24689011.jpg
11. http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5341/51533537.jpg
12. http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3704/92679906.jpg

The fight against Cap happened in Tales of Suspense #76, I think.

He was also rated pretty high here:

http://marvel.com/news/story/9384/take_10_martial_artists

Badabing
Originally posted by psycho gundam
the question that broke the original tier thread: "where's batman?" Above and beyond any ranking system! sneer

"Id"
Nate Grey should be removed from Mid Herald, Shaman X-Man to High Herald.

dmills
Back Strange to high herald since prep isn't taken into account. Back Spidey to mid meta, WBH to high herald.

Propose to bump Nova Prime to mid herald.

Sin I AM
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
IF fight (some links are broken):

1. http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8118/70562889.jpg
2. http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6030/55326483.jpg
3. http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2154/37059196.jpg
4. http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/3870/86134133.jpg
5. http://img863.imageshack.us/img863/5457/86740049.jpg
6 http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/5877/32128346.jpg
7. http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5475/74879699.jpg
8. http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/8306/39309440.jpg
9. http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/1010/75045734.jpg
10. http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5428/24689011.jpg
11. http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5341/51533537.jpg
12. http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3704/92679906.jpg

The fight against Cap happened in Tales of Suspense #76, I think.

He was also rated pretty high here:

http://marvel.com/news/story/9384/take_10_martial_artists

Sweet. Concur

Diesldude
Where is Darksied?
I also vote for a skyfather tier system.

Onimar Synn is a low sky father especially with the Nth metal.

curryman
I'm against Iron Man to Low Herald (I thought he was supposed to define high meta....)

I'm also against moving Batroc and Nova Prime.

I agree with moving Shaman X-Man.

dmills
Also for a skyfather tier if for no other reason then it it already has a clear distinction in the comic material and should thus be the easiest to define imo.

Galan007
Originally posted by curryman
I'm against Iron Man to Low Herald (I thought he was supposed to define high meta....) Agree or not, a meta-class character cannot contend with solid heralds as consistently as Iron Man has over his career.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Galan007
Agree or not, a meta-class character cannot contend with solid heralds as consistently as Iron Man has over his career.

thumb up

I will vote Iron Man up to Low Herald.

Galan007
Originally posted by curryman
What heralds can he actually contend with?

The only thing that really comes to mind is his fight against Terrax way back and that felt more like luck and prep than anything. If you aren't familiar with a character's feats, then you probably shouldn't be casting votes on them. :/

Omega Vision
I think of Classic Iron Man as being the absolute peak of Sub-Herald, as if he's the line between meta and herald in terms of power.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think of Classic Iron Man as being the absolute peak of Sub-Herald, as if he's the line between meta and herald in terms of power.

This.

And that's just "classic" Iron Man. Iron Man over the past decade or so has been racking up great feats. Tony ever since Extremis has been low herald, imo.

Naija boy
I def support Iron man to low herald.

-Pr-
Guys, this isn't a debate thread. You're welcome to post a short "why I think character x should be moved" but that's it.

Most people should just be able to let their voting do the talking.

Going to tally up the votes tonight, so hopefully we'll get some people on the board.

JakeTheBank
Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, this isn't a debate thread. You're welcome to post a short "why I think character x should be moved" but that's it.

Most people should just be able to let their voting do the talking.

Going to tally up the votes tonight, so hopefully we'll get some people on the board.

Fair enough.

I think a bunch of characters have been mentioned so far so perhaps we should open a thread purely for the voting of those mentioned so far, and after x amount of time, change their placements as seen fit and then re-open this thread?

It would seem more productive to do so in batches, imo.

Raisen
Originally posted by abhilegend
Dr. Strange to high herald.

Adam Warlock to mid herald.

Infinity Man to trans tier.

Wally West to high herald.

Circe to mid herald.

WWH to high herald.

WBH to trans tier.
I agree with all except Strange

Galan007
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's been able to fight Hulk (and beat him outright) without use of Hulkbuster Armor. In the Iron Man/Thor mini-series, he did quite well against Ulik and held his own for a time briefly against Thor (though they were both mind controlled). His fights with Doom also come to mind, who's definitely a low herald. Ulik was massively amped by High Evolutionary at the time-- as was Crimson Dynamo. They were so amped, in fact, that they each stomped on Thor in the very same series. However, despite possessing that level of power, Tony was able to slap each of them around with a fair amount of ease. Tony also went on to contend with the likes of Thor, a Serpent-amped Grey Gargoyle, etc.

The guy is at least low-herald.

Badabing
Originally posted by -Pr-
Guys, this isn't a debate thread. You're welcome to post a short "why I think character x should be moved" but that's it.

Most people should just be able to let their voting do the talking.

Going to tally up the votes tonight, so hopefully we'll get some people on the board. I agree. This is why KMC can never have anything nice! ahuh

Sin I AM
Originally posted by Galan007
Ulik was massively amped by High Evolutionary at the time-- as was Crimson Dynamo. They were so amped, in fact, that they each stomped on Thor in the very same series. However, despite possessing that level of power, Tony was able to slap each of them around with a fair amount of ease. Tony also went on to contend with the likes of Thor, a Serpent-amped Grey Gargoyle, etc.

The guy is at least low-herald.

Not disagreeing but he has a lotta prep and his armor can be dues ex at times. Do u believe that at any given chance with standard armor he can beat Magneto?

Badabing
I think people are somehow confused about this being a thread for deabtes. Seems odd since Pr posted it's not a debate thread and I just quoted Pr's post.

Vote for or against a character.

Submit a character for consideration.

That's it.Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Also, is there any way for you or another mod to delete posts? Because this thread will run quite a few pages, probably over a single issue, and we all know they'll be some bickering and probably spamming along the way. I think keeping the thread clean would be a good idea after so many posts.

Unless you keep this open for about a month or two, lock the thread, and "update" every once in a while. I am going to delete posts now. But I will be warning people soon.

-Pr-
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Fair enough.

I think a bunch of characters have been mentioned so far so perhaps we should open a thread purely for the voting of those mentioned so far, and after x amount of time, change their placements as seen fit and then re-open this thread?

It would seem more productive to do so in batches, imo.

Maybe. Let me see how many votes there are first.

-Pr-
Closing while I tally up the votes. Will open a decision thread when I'm ready, and link to it here.

-Pr-
Voting thread:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=577962

Badabing
I was looking at the voting thread and considering Norman Osborn for mid meta. I assume we're taking raw intelligence into account when voting? If so, that opens a door for characters like Beast and possibly Batman moving up a tier.

-Pr-
I got the impression he was just talking about actual explosives and physical stats.

no Batman moving for you!

Badabing
Originally posted by -Pr-
I got the impression he was just talking about actual explosives and physical stats.

no Batman moving for you! That's why I'm asking. I mean is it just raw power with whatever standard gear, or do we count intelligence too? Einstein would be low street, but his mind is at least low meta imo.


OVERRULED! sneer

-Pr-
Originally posted by Badabing
That's why I'm asking. I mean is it just raw power with whatever standard gear, or do we count intelligence too? Einstein would be low street, but his mind is at least low meta imo.


OVERRULED! sneer

Like you can actually do that.

Yeah, I don't think stuff like that should be included, necessarily. Just how they would fare if they were dropped in to a featureless environment and forced to fight.

Badabing
Originally posted by -Pr-
Like you can actually do that.

Yeah, I don't think stuff like that should be included, necessarily. Just how they would fare if they were dropped in to a featureless environment and forced to fight. Watch yourself J.A.M.P. (Junior Assistant Mod Paul)! biscuits

Okay. That doesn't change any of my votes then.

-Pr-
Originally posted by Badabing
Watch yourself J.A.M.P. (Junior Assistant Mod Paul)! biscuits

Okay. That doesn't change any of my votes then.

laughing out loud

Badabing
Have we decided on DCnU Captain Atom?

-Pr-
Not yet.

-Pr-
First changes are about to be made:

Adam Warlock to Mid Herald.

Aquaman (DCNU) to Low Herald.

Circe to Mid Herald.

Doctor Strange to High Herald.

Iron Man to Low Herald

More to come...

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